Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: daddy8ball on November 30, 2012, 06:53:10 PM
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Is it possible (naturally)?
My joints are going to shit and I can't go heavy. I can barely tolerate light weights but it's the cards I have to play with right now.
Been to doctor, did all kinds of tests..blood tests, etc. It's not anything but plain old tendonitis.
I figure I'll go light, up the volume, the sets, and keep going to failure.
Can one build strength/mass this way, or is it a lost cause?
Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit drinking.
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higher reps are worse for tendinitis one would think
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got my best size and strength gains from 12-15 reps, go figure..
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If your over 12-15% bodyfat, then the best thing you can do for yourself is to get to 8-10%. If it means just training light, than so be it. You will feel so much better leaner. However the journey to get there may be hell.
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Is it possible (naturally)?
My joints are going to shit and I can't go heavy. I can barely tolerate light weights but it's the cards I have to play with right now.
Been to doctor, did all kinds of tests..blood tests, etc. It's not anything but plain old tendonitis.
I figure I'll go light, up the volume, the sets, and keep going to failure.
Can one build strength/mass this way, or is it a lost cause?
Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit drinking.
1-3 Power
5-8 Strength
8-12 hypertrophy
12+ muscular endurance
This varies but usually by a rep or so.
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It's common knowledge you grow outside of the gym building up your post count on getbig
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1-3 Power
5-8 Strength
8-12 hypertrophy
12+ muscular endurance
This varies but usually by a rep or so.
Bullshit. All of it.
Besides. It is the total volume that mostly dictates how the body is going to adapt.
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Is it possible (naturally)?
My joints are going to shit and I can't go heavy. I can barely tolerate light weights but it's the cards I have to play with right now.
Been to doctor, did all kinds of tests..blood tests, etc. It's not anything but plain old tendonitis.
I figure I'll go light, up the volume, the sets, and keep going to failure.
Can one build strength/mass this way, or is it a lost cause?
Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit drinking.
You know it's funny that you mention this cause despite what all the BS bad rap juice gets my joints are practically indestructible while on the juice. While I am off it is almost unbearable, sore joints all over the place and I can barely workout for this reason alone I will be on juice till I die. I have tried (while off juice) everything and have never found anything that works.
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What kind of tendonitis specifically? I had terrible tendonitis in my elbow and forearms(tennis and golfers elbow) Simply changing the types of lifts have done wonder for me without sacrificing weight. I also increase my warmup sets and reps as needed.
Had tendonitis for about 14 months straight and have been relatively healthy for the last year.
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1-3 Power
5-8 Strength
8-12 hypertrophy
12+ muscular endurance
This varies but usually by a rep or so.
Ok, I'll bite. How is it Bullshit?
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Ok, I'll bite. How is it Bullshit?
everybody knows this is how it actually works
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higher reps are worse for tendinitis one would think
This ^^^
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You know it's funny that you mention this cause despite what all the BS bad rap juice gets my joints are practically indestructible while on the juice. While I am off it is almost unbearable, sore joints all over the place and I can barely workout for this reason alone I will be on juice till I die. I have tried (while off juice) everything and have never found anything that works.
My joints are all screwed up from arthritis and I was wondering about this subject and whether it would help. This actually answered a question I've been meaning to ask. Thank you.
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higher reps are worse for tendinitis one would think
Doesn't matter. Takes forever to get rid of. rest, ice anti- inflammatories.
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My joints are all screwed up from arthritis and I was wondering about this subject and whether it would help. This actually answered a question I've been meaning to ask. Thank you.
Big time bro, trust me, I mean doesn't mean you inject today and tomorrow "wolla" but it will make the joints tendons and ligament a lot stronger and while using them a lot more without the pain it will bring them back to normal. After 1 month on juice all my joint pains are completely gone and can do any exercise comfortably, hell I can even arm wrestle.
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I know a guy who for years would go heavy as hell for lower reps.. 4-10 reps usually. He had a few surgeries all over the place(shoulders, knee, etc.). He lightened up the weight big time and would do 15-20 on 99% of exercises and actually grew better from it and looks a lot better now with his physique. It could be the drugs though lol.
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1-3 Power
5-8 Strength
8-12 hypertrophy
12+ muscular endurance
This varies but usually by a rep or so.
very accurate intel here dude, you know as well as i do opinions vary but this really makes the most sense.
how you train is what you get in the end.
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Rearch on Higher reps is showing that they are actually optimal for pure hypertrophy.
Ronnie coleman says you aint building shit unless you doin atleast 10 to 15 reps.
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Rearch on Higher reps is showing that they are actually optimal for pure hypertrophy.
Ronnie coleman says you aint building shit unless you doin atleast 10 to 15 reps.
I wanted a natural solution. Is Ronnie natural? I dunno...call me crazy..but if was putting 12K of drugs in my system a month, I prolly wouldn't have any joint problems. Just throwin' that out.
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I wanted a natural solution. Is Ronnie natural? I dunno...call me crazy..but if was putting 12K of drugs in my system a month, I prolly wouldn't have any joint problems. Just throwin' that out.
Of course hes not natural but most people build size with higher reps natural or juicing.
The lighter loads are MUCH easier on the joints.
And you dont even need to take sets to failure because your total volume and TUT is so high when dling 3 to 4 sets of 12 to 20+ reps. Try it out for a few weeks.
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Of course hes not natural but most people build size with higher reps natural or juicing.
The lighter loads are MUCH easier on the joints.
And you dont even need to take sets to failure because your total volume and TUT is so high when dling 3 to 4 sets of 12 to 20+ reps. Try it out for a few weeks.
Good call. I'll give it a shot.
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Is it possible (naturally)?
My joints are going to shit and I can't go heavy. I can barely tolerate light weights but it's the cards I have to play with right now.
Been to doctor, did all kinds of tests..blood tests, etc. It's not anything but plain old tendonitis.
I figure I'll go light, up the volume, the sets, and keep going to failure.
Can one build strength/mass this way, or is it a lost cause?
Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit drinking.
Try supplementing with curcumin ( turmeric extract ) research it. The reviews on this stuff are crazy, I. A skeptic but the research and evidence on this cant be denied.
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I wanted a natural solution. Is Ronnie natural? I dunno...call me crazy..but if was putting 12K of drugs in my system a month, I prolly wouldn't have any joint problems. Just throwin' that out.
ask matty hawerw[eoo for tips on how to afford drugs. seems to be doing pretty well for a 24 year old - making $5k bets and all.
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natural = no gains no matter what
juice = gains no matter what
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Good call. I'll give it a shot.
Dont forget FISH OIL.
Supposed to be great for lubing the joints. Actually I need to get some because my elbow is creaking a when I bench.
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Seems to be a lot of people with joint issues lately. I was talking to three people this week at the gym. (all in their late 30's) and all three were commenting on their knees or shoulders being shot from years of heavy lifting.
I had tendonitis in both biceps from doing chins. It took about 15 months before it healed well enough that I could train without pain. A good friend of mine has arthritis in both his knees and has been training legs using the Super Slow technique, and claims he's able to get in a good workout without experiencing joint pain.
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If your over 12-15% bodyfat, then the best thing you can do for yourself is to get to 8-10%. If it means just training light, than so be it. You will feel so much better leaner. However the journey to get there may be hell.
the journey from 8% to 6% is hell
going from 15% to 10% ain't so rough
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Just go with a weight you can do 12-15 or even more controlled reps. It's the muscles being worked that matters, the weight you use doesn't make a big difference. Once i started doing this and stopped being stupid going heavy, i stopped having joint problems and looked better. I would say a good 4 pounds heavier too, i could get lighter previously but didn't look as good as now.
Last night i did Bent Over rows and did 20 reps. Worked great.
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Shoot for 20 and don't do less than 15, use perfect form and squeeze. If your doing the exercises/eating right you will get results
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Yep - I do 15-20 on all leg exercises and 10-15 on all upper body exercises. But at the end of the day as long as you work the muscle and you tear down the fibres then you'll stimulate growth.
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1-3 Power
5-8 Strength
8-12 hypertrophy
12+ muscular endurance
This varies but usually by a rep or so.
Please dont buy into this crap, especially if youre natural.
Youre gonna have to work with what you have, the heavier and safer you can.
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The rep philosophy only goes so far....if you get injured from low reps, you won't grow anyway.
I will never do less than 15 reps for legs again, and no less that 12 for UB. You can grow with higher reps for sure.
More tendinitis at high reps ? I think that's crapp....
So says DR Dutch
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1-3 Power
5-8 Strength
8-12 hypertrophy
12+ muscular endurance
This varies but usually by a rep or so.
what a fucking idiot.
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5-8 reps on basic movements and linear progression is the ONLY way I can progress, juice or no juice. Otherwise I stagnate pretty quickly.
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What kind of tendonitis specifically? I had terrible tendonitis in my elbow and forearms(tennis and golfers elbow) Simply changing the types of lifts have done wonder for me without sacrificing weight. I also increase my warmup sets and reps as needed.
Had tendonitis for about 14 months straight and have been relatively healthy for the last year.
At that point it is considered tendonosis (chronic tendonitis)
Depending on the joint that is affected, the most effective way around tendonitis is take a couple of weeks (3 - 4) and concentrate on more essentric type of work with medium loads. Little heat/ice combo (10 - 15 mins of each, heat first). Also some deep tissue work may not be a bad idea combined with your favorite OTC anti-inflammatory
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yes, is possibel, just do it for couple years consistently and diet nicely, will be good.
if you give up after 2 weeks thinking it didnt work, then it was the wrong hobby in the first place, then you oughta do something with faster rewards, like, bank robberies or something.
LOL :) Funny stuff, even if that's more like a faster road to getting punked in some prison or blown away by a SWAT team ;)
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Big time bro, trust me, I mean doesn't mean you inject today and tomorrow "wolla" but it will make the joints tendons and ligament a lot stronger and while using them a lot more without the pain it will bring them back to normal. After 1 month on juice all my joint pains are completely gone and can do any exercise comfortably, hell I can even arm wrestle.
Thanks, man. A lot of good info. Something to think about. I've never used gh but I've heard it can negatively affect the joints. Any experience with this?
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Please dont buy into this crap, especially if youre natural.
Youre gonna have to work with what you have, the heavier and safer you can.
Back up your quote.
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what a fucking idiot.
Care to back this up asshole? Get yur head out of bodybuilding magazines and you might learn something. But judging by your post I doubt it, Mr six post gimmick.
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Cum'on now... how would the cyclists, sprinters and so on have 'massive' legs if there was a magic number of reps which you can't exceed ::) ::)
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what a fucking idiot.
It's this type of "thinking" would be the reason why bodybuilding-type training will never advance. More drugs, zero knowledge of training physiology.
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ask yourself what would mike do?
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ask yourself what would mike do?
Up the dose.....of course.
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ask yourself what would mike do?
Have some meth and chase it down with his own urine?
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both correct. ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Back up your quote.
Retractile muscle tissue grows on progressive overload, its the basic adaptation of the protein muscle tissue. &guy, for all practical purposes, means necessarilly stronger, this is true for hormonized athletes, though the training regime may vary because of augmented protein accretion and synthesis.
Saying that there is something as bigger and not stronger, or stronger but not bigger makes no sense. You will never be big if you dont squat big, you will never squat big if you are not big.
Oh, and dont even worry about starting a discussion of this, citation wars and "I have a friend" examples dont work on the internet.
Also, steroids are the reason why people dont know how to strength train, they do much of the work, as you may already know, a natural trainee will grow less overtime (not a new trainee) than a hormonized individual who doesnt actually strength train because of the sheer anabolic property of aas.
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Retractile muscle tissue grows on progressive overload, its the basic adaptation of the protein muscle tissue. &guy, for all practical purposes, means necessarilly stronger, this is true for hormonized athletes, though the training regime may vary because of augmented protein accretion and synthesis.
Saying that there is something as bigger and not stronger, or stronger but not bigger makes no sense. You will never be big if you dont squat big, you will never squat big if you are not big.
Oh, and dont even worry about starting a discussion of this, citation wars and "I have a friend" examples dont work on the internet.
No citation war, son. You're forgetting one MAJOR and most important part of your little analogy. The energy systems, the system that SHOULD dictate set, rep and recovery schemes. The little chart I provided is dependent on the three energy systems. This isn't nothing to be debated, this is, infact....FACT! So the next time you want to call someone a "fucking idiot", realize who you're calling a "fucking idiot". BTW, you didn't back up shit...try again!
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the journey from 8% to 6% is hell
going from 15% to 10% ain't so rough
Have you personally been at 6% dj?
I have not but would love to try now at my older days... would be good target to work towards as I'm not getting bigger anyways.
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No citation war, son. You're forgetting one MAJOR and most important part of your little analogy. The energy systems, the system that SHOULD dictate set, rep and recovery schemes. The little chart I provided is dependent on the three energy systems. This isn't nothing to be debated, this is, infact....FACT! So the next time you want to call someone a "fucking idiot", realize who you're calling a "fucking idiot". BTW, you didn't back up shit...try again!
I did not call you a fucking idiot, and I have about 3 gigs of pdf books about this, again, I aint starting a citation war because I already know that this old broscience rep range thing is outdated, reason why all serious contemporary strength trainers DONT follow it, alas, you are not a serious strength trainer and are only known on getbig, of which half thinks youre a dumb fuck.
Also, higher rep ranges basically means more glucose (a higher metabolization and accretion rate) inside a given cell, not higher rates of protein synthesis on the muscle fiber, that is all it matters for in terms of energy. You fail at taining, once again.
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I did not call you a fucking idiot, and I have about 3 gigs of pdf books about this, again, I aint starting a citation war because I already know that this old broscience rep range thing is outdated, reason why all serious contemporary strength trainers DONT follow it, alas, you are not a serious strength trainer and are only known on getbig, of which half thinks youre a dumb fuck.
Also, higher rep ranges basically means more glucose inside a given cell, not higher rates of protein synthesis on the muscle fiber, that is all it matters for in terms of energy. You fail at taining, once again.
Define "serious" strength trainer"? I'm really not interested on whether you have 3gig's or 43 gig's. of PDF books, I have my share as well, it depends on where and who you're getting info from. Again, I have no idea where you're getting your info from but this is not only being taught in every kinese program in the country including CS Fullerton (who incidentally used one of my trainers in this months S&C Journal) but also being practiced by virtually every team S&C coach in the country. So again, define "serious strength trainer".
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I did not call you a fucking idiot, and I have about 3 gigs of pdf books about this, again, I aint starting a citation war because I already know that this old broscience rep range thing is outdated, reason why all serious contemporary strength trainers DONT follow it, alas, you are not a serious strength trainer and are only known on getbig, of which half thinks youre a dumb fuck.
Also, higher rep ranges basically means more glucose (a higher metabolization and accretion rate) inside a given cell, not higher rates of protein synthesis on the muscle fiber, that is all it matters for in terms of energy. You fail at taining, once again.
BTW, my apologies. It was MR. Muscles who called me a fucking idiot not you, again, sorry.
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Define "serious" strength trainer"? I'm really not interested on whether you have 3gig's or 43 gig's. of PDF books, I have my share as well, it depends on where and who you're getting info from. Again, I have no idea where you're getting your info from but this is not only being taught in every kinese program in the country but also being practiced by virtually every team S&C coach in the country. So again, define "serious strength trainer".
From Pendlay to Bill Starr (I will mention Rippetoe in parenthesis because everybody hates this guy, i dont) to almost every other trainer who designs programs for natural trainees Ive come across, add to the list Aragon and McDonald, the only two strngth trainers who also know their shit on nutrition.
Btw, if you want real info visit LyleŽs website, youŽll learn a lot, like I did, or hell, even bette,r read his books.
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Have you personally been at 6% dj?
I have not but would love to try now at my older days... would be good target to work towards as I'm not getting bigger anyways.
yes i have, and i am almost there again ;)
as far as being a good target, i'd say that it's more like an OUTSTANDING target, as hardly anyone of this goddamn planet is sitting @ a legit 6%
a much more reasonable goal would be 8-9% as it's still pretty damn lean
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Have you personally been at 6% dj?
I have not but would love to try now at my older days... would be good target to work towards as I'm not getting bigger anyways.
Kill it bro, why not, You want to right ? Hey you only live once bro.
Thanks, man. A lot of good info. Something to think about. I've never used gh but I've heard it can negatively affect the joints. Any experience with this?
If you are considering juicing for to better the joints, I say do it. If you are thinking gh for anti-aging reasons I say do it, but if your joints are hurting doing gh without the juice is suicide, having said that if you do have joint pain and want to juice and do gh I would juice for 3-4 months before starting gh so that way your joints are fresh by the time you start the gh and you should be OK
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From Pendlay to Bill Starr (I will mention Rippetoe in parenthesis because everybody hates this guy, i dont) to almost every other trainer who designs programs for natural trainees Ive come across, add to the list Aragon and McDonald, the only two strngth trainers who also know their shit on nutrition.
Btw, if you want real info visit LyleŽs website, youŽll learn a lot, like I did, or hell, even bette,r read his books.
Both are good but will also tell you that the three energy systems are dependent on rep and recovery. These rep schemes are especially dependent on natural athletes because these studies are done with...natural athletes.
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Both are good but will also tell you that the three energy systems are dependent on rep and recovery. These rep schemes are especially dependent on natural athletes because these studies are done with...natural athletes.
This is blatantly false, NONE of the trainers Ive cited program with your "hypertrophy rep ranges". In fact, all of them use the basic 3x5 on compound with minimal accesory work on a higher volume range mostly for joint health.
If you dont want to concede this point ill ask anybody reading to take a look at Lyles generic bulking routine: http://forums.lylemcdonald.com/showthread.php?t=1696
And
http://stronglifts.com/madcow/5x5_Program/Periodized_5x5.htm notice the periodization, it can get as low as 3 reps depending on the week, heavier, lesser volume, more intenese.
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This is blatantly false, NONE of the trainers Ive cited program with your "hypertrophy rep ranges". In fact, all of them use the basic 3x5 on compound with minimal accesory work on a higher volume range mostly for joint health.
If you dont want to concede this point ill ask anybody reading to take a look at Lyles generic bulking routine: http://forums.lylemcdonald.com/showthread.php?t=1696
And
http://stronglifts.com/madcow/5x5_Program/Periodized_5x5.htm notice the periodization, it can get as low as 3 reps depending on the week, heavier, lesser volume, more intenese.
Look at this chart, then look at my rep schemes. What do you see that is similar?
LOADING DELOADING AND INTENSIFICATION
Volume Phase Option 1: Deload and Peak 3x3 OR Option 2: Pure Deload
Weeks 1-4 Weeks 5-9 Weeks 5-6 or Extended
Monday Monday Monday
Squat 5x5 3x3 3x3
Bench 1x5 1x3 3x3
Row 1x5 1x3 3x3
Wednesday Wednesday Wednesday or Thursday
Squat 5x5 (10-20% < than Monday) Drop This Lift 3x3 with 70% of Monday
Deadlift 5x5 3x3 3x3
Military or Incline 5x5 3x3 3x3
Pull-ups or Chins 5x5 3x3 3x3
Friday Friday
Squat 1x5 1x3
Bench 5x5 3x3
Row 5x5 3x3
Mine...
1-3 Power
5-8 Strength
8-12 hypertrophy
12+ muscular endurance
This varies but usually by a rep or so.
This particular thread deals with bodybuilding which in turn is isolation. In athletics, you want hypertrophy, rep schemes from 5-8 will achieve this but understand, they are suggesting bodybuilding. Starr's reps schemes are based on strength and power which today we realize that based on energy systems, ATP-CP (power) Glycolitic (strength) and Aerobic (endurance).
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This is blatantly false, NONE of the trainers Ive cited program with your "hypertrophy rep ranges". In fact, all of them use the basic 3x5 on compound with minimal accesory work on a higher volume range mostly for joint health.
If you dont want to concede this point ill ask anybody reading to take a look at Lyles generic bulking routine: http://forums.lylemcdonald.com/showthread.php?t=1696
And
http://stronglifts.com/madcow/5x5_Program/Periodized_5x5.htm notice the periodization, it can get as low as 3 reps depending on the week, heavier, lesser volume, more intenese.
That's exactly what I use to progress.
Everything else seems like shit to me. If I use 3x5 in basic lifts and (2-3)x(6-8) on accessory lifts with some pumping sets at the end in (1-3)x(10-15) fashion I progress.
Things that do work for me:
- periodisation of weights, starting low and progressing slowly with weights. I can do this more agressively if I add more steroids, obviously
- total deload phase during which I use more volume, more reps and relax with weights every time I feel the need to
- moderate volume adjusted throghout the cycle
Things that do NOT work for me:
- going to failure every week
- attempts to hit PR every week
- very high volume all the time with many reps - I simply get full but after some time I start regressing
Seems like using basic gear and low doses does not make it that much different than being natural...
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It's this type of "thinking" would be the reason why bodybuilding-type training will never advance. More drugs, zero knowledge of training physiology.
X2. bbing knowledge is dwindling so fast, drugs are the answer now and most people don't even know how to train properly.
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X2. bbing knowledge is dwindling so fast, drugs are the answer now and most people don't even know how to train properly.
What drugs do is simplify things. Take drugs, train hard, eat some protein..grow. If you're natty, you gotta be a lot more disciplined and analytical.
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Cum'on now... how would the cyclists, sprinters and so on have 'massive' legs if there was a magic number of reps which you can't exceed ::) ::)
Because they weight train with heavy weights and use gear.
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What drugs do is simplify things. Take drugs, train hard, eat some protein..grow. If you're natty, you gotta be a lot more disciplined and analytical.
bang on, thats a better way to put it. they really allow you more tolerance for crap ie poor diet, sloppy training methods and bad habits, things you would NEVER get away with attempting natt.. drugs just make things so easy when you already have the dicipline that comes from natty gains.
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1-3 Power
5-8 Strength
8-12 hypertrophy
12+ muscular endurance
This varies but usually by a rep or so.
Coach, do you agree that doing 8 reps in a (4.2.4.0) tempo is a bigger time under tension on your muscle being worked than a repetition done in a (2.0.1.0) rep-tempo and therefore a whole different effect on your 3 energy systems?
peace D
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bang on, thats a better way to put it. they really allow you more tolerance for crap ie poor diet, sloppy training methods and bad habits, things you would NEVER get away with attempting natt.. drugs just make things so easy when you already have the dicipline that comes from natty gains.
Its also nice that gear is available because then you dont have to wait so many years to reach your goals. Sure youll lose some gains post cycle but youre still a heck of alot bigger and stronger than if you stayed natural, in a given time frame. Muscle memory rules.
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Its also nice that gear is available because then you dont have to wait so many years to reach your goals. Sure youll lose some gains post cycle but youre still a heck of alot bigger and stronger than if you stayed natural, in a given time frame. Muscle memory rules.
muscle memory does rule. a natty training base is however encouraged.
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natty training base
Thats what highschool weight training class was for. :-D
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Thats what highschool weight training class was for. :-D
wow, well I guess you're one step ahead of everybody then and have it all figured out 8)
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To quote Jeff Everson who was elite in Olympic lifting, Power lifting and bodybuilding,"Until pigs fly you don't have to be a scientist to be a bodybuilder." Have you seen pictures of the authors of the exercise physiology text books used in colleges? Most of them look like they never did a push up in their life.
If you concentrate on such minutia as is 8 reps better than 10 or is a 2-3 tempo better than a 4-4 tempo you are missing the big picture. A work ethic in the gym is the best indicator that you will get the most out of your individual genetics.
Danny Padilla liked 12 reps a set and was a fantastic bodybuilder. Bill Pearl was fantastic bodybuilder and he liked 6 to 8 reps. Yates and Mentzer trained with low sets and Arnold and Ronnie liked high sets. What does this all prove? Nothing, train hard.
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I didn't read the entire thread so If someone has mentioned this already, my bad. It's actually time under tension that counts more so than amount of reps.
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5-8 reps on basic movements and linear progression is the ONLY way I can progress, juice or no juice. Otherwise I stagnate pretty quickly.
what do you really mean by "progress"?
how much progression do you really see? are you regularly adding weight to the bar, or reps? if so, for how many years? months? weeks?
i think anything will work for a year or two, maybe three. after that, no technique or periodization scheme is going to help.
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wow, well I guess you're one step ahead of everybody then and have it all figured out 8)
Nail on the head :D
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For me high reps doesn't build mass... low reps builds mass but mostly strength and makes me dense.
What I do is mix it up.. and what really works for long term size and strength is this routine:
set 1 12 reps
set 2 10 reps
set 3 8 reps
set 4 6 reps
Therefore I work in that hypertrophy range so to speak... while going progressively heavier... and always adjusting making sure im getting stronger and that i am really using the max weight to get to those reps.
Meh .. everyone's dif... purely strength only low reps <6 makes me super strong but little to no mass... high reps = makes me weak as crap and shrinks me down.... total waste of time... makes me feel NOTHING as if i am lifting paper while gradually getting weaker and smaller. Mixing it up like that with heavy weight and mix range of reps... = results
Make every set your maximum intensity and effort in those rep ranges... work hard... proper... i see no problem with this... that's just me... works for me...
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12+ reps causing only glycogen retention is utter nonsense.
What it is, is that 12 to 25 reps build more TOTAL MUSCLE SIZE than low reps. Some of the size is from fast twitch growth, some from sarcoplasm/glycogen. Higher reps actually build muscle on a genetic level by decreasing myostatin levels in the trained muscle, whereas low reps do not. The pros dont use higher reps cuz theyre lazy, they use them because they just plain work.
If low reps have worked great for you then more power to ya. But its not the optimal way to go about pure mass training. For most people.
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Occasionally I do low reps. Mostly stick between 8-15. My goal is size first strength second, my way serves my needs efficiently.
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Coach, do you agree that doing 8 reps in a (4.2.4.0) tempo is a bigger time under tension on your muscle being worked than a repetition done in a (2.0.1.0) rep-tempo and therefore a whole different effect on your 3 energy systems?
peace D
The whole time under tension thing (IMHO) is so overblown. How often do powerlifters use it? How many bodybuilders use it? Usually its the Poliquin-drones.
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I think it varies with muscle groups. Hamstrings and deadlifts I don't do high reps. Squats I usually do high reps with the occasional low reps. Otherwise i stay roughly in the 8-10 rep range.
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Have some meth and chase it down with his own urine?
;D
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my thoughts on thread subject matter=
periodization
staying away from failure
mix of rep ranges
focus on form
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The whole time under tension thing (IMHO) is so overblown. How often do powerlifters use it? How many bodybuilders use it? Usually its the Poliquin-drones.
I agree with this. Although for teaching purposes we will use a 3/0/1 or 2/0/1 tempo especially on bench and box squats. Milos is a Poliquin disciple so what does that tell you?
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Is it possible (naturally)?
My joints are going to shit and I can't go heavy. I can barely tolerate light weights but it's the cards I have to play with right now.
Been to doctor, did all kinds of tests..blood tests, etc. It's not anything but plain old tendonitis.
I figure I'll go light, up the volume, the sets, and keep going to failure.
Can one build strength/mass this way, or is it a lost cause?
Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit drinking.
If you are clever enough, you can build mass like that. For example, instead of doing one exercise to total failure, you choose three for same muscle and do them as super set just like you say, 12-15-20 reps. This way you can exhaust the muscle, pump it full of blood, and what else you need. If you are going to train your legs for example, you warm up by doing few sets of squats with moderate weight, then leg extension with 12 reps, leg press for 15 slow reps, and hack squat 20 slow reps. After this, if your legs doesn't have decent pump, repeat the super set. For hamstrings and calves similar combination, and there you are sitting on the floor crying because you can't walk anymore, not at least few days..
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Look at this chart, then look at my rep schemes. What do you see that is similar?
LOADING DELOADING AND INTENSIFICATION
Volume Phase Option 1: Deload and Peak 3x3 OR Option 2: Pure Deload
Weeks 1-4 Weeks 5-9 Weeks 5-6 or Extended
Monday Monday Monday
Squat 5x5 3x3 3x3
Bench 1x5 1x3 3x3
Row 1x5 1x3 3x3
Wednesday Wednesday Wednesday or Thursday
Squat 5x5 (10-20% < than Monday) Drop This Lift 3x3 with 70% of Monday
Deadlift 5x5 3x3 3x3
Military or Incline 5x5 3x3 3x3
Pull-ups or Chins 5x5 3x3 3x3
Friday Friday
Squat 1x5 1x3
Bench 5x5 3x3
Row 5x5 3x3
Mine...
1-3 Power
5-8 Strength
8-12 hypertrophy
12+ muscular endurance
This varies but usually by a rep or so.
This particular thread deals with bodybuilding which in turn is isolation. In athletics, you want hypertrophy, rep schemes from 5-8 will achieve this but understand, they are suggesting bodybuilding. Starr's reps schemes are based on strength and power which today we realize that based on energy systems, ATP-CP (power) Glycolitic (strength) and Aerobic (endurance).
rofl. "deloading"...
do you mean unloading?
keep posting, you are pretty funny. want to hear more of your philosophies.
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my thoughts on thread subject matter=
periodization
staying away from failure
mix of rep ranges
focus on form
A BIG NO!.
mixing rep ranges means you exhaust your nervous system trying to optimise responses. spend at least 6 weeks on any rep scheme, range, before changing it, and even then, dont make the change drastic. (i.e. dont go from 6 reps to 20. )
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rofl. "deloading"...
do you mean unloading?
keep posting, you are pretty funny. want to hear more of your philosophies.
No, deloading. Wait, lemme guess. Flex.magazine is your workout bible?
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what do you really mean by "progress"?
how much progression do you really see? are you regularly adding weight to the bar, or reps? if so, for how many years? months? weeks?
i think anything will work for a year or two, maybe three. after that, no technique or periodization scheme is going to help.
I'll give you an example. For 2 months I trained with 100kg for reps. I started doing 8 reps which was far from my max and I added about one rep or so every training. At the end I benched 100kg for 16 reps.
Then I did something stupid - I switched to heavy weights and surprise, surprise - 120kg was crushing me. Then I realised what I was doing was just fucking stupid. I reduced weight to 105kg, 3x5 and added 2.5kg each workout. Voila, after couple of weeks I checked my 1 rep max and I benched 140kg at 80kg bodyweight. Nothing to write home about, but I'm no genetic freak and certainly no bench press freak ;) My chest also got slightly bigger.
Same way with squats, I can squat 160kgx5 but I start cycle with 120kg and add 10kg every week or even less. Generally, the less you add each week, the better, but I tend to be stupid and impatient.
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Look at this chart, then look at my rep schemes. What do you see that is similar?
LOADING DELOADING AND INTENSIFICATION
Volume Phase Option 1: Deload and Peak 3x3 OR Option 2: Pure Deload
Weeks 1-4 Weeks 5-9 Weeks 5-6 or Extended
Monday Monday Monday
Squat 5x5 3x3 3x3
Bench 1x5 1x3 3x3
Row 1x5 1x3 3x3
Wednesday Wednesday Wednesday or Thursday
Squat 5x5 (10-20% < than Monday) Drop This Lift 3x3 with 70% of Monday
Deadlift 5x5 3x3 3x3
Military or Incline 5x5 3x3 3x3
Pull-ups or Chins 5x5 3x3 3x3
Friday Friday
Squat 1x5 1x3
Bench 5x5 3x3
Row 5x5 3x3
Mine...
1-3 Power
5-8 Strength
8-12 hypertrophy
12+ muscular endurance
This varies but usually by a rep or so.
This particular thread deals with bodybuilding which in turn is isolation. In athletics, you want hypertrophy, rep schemes from 5-8 will achieve this but understand, they are suggesting bodybuilding. Starr's reps schemes are based on strength and power which today we realize that based on energy systems, ATP-CP (power) Glycolitic (strength) and Aerobic (endurance).
BOTH OF THESE ROUTINES ARE BULKING "BODYBUILDING" ROUTINES YOU DUMMY, LYLE MCDONALD AND PENDLAY "TRAIN" BODYBUILDERS TOO. BOTH OF THESE ROUTINES ARE FOR BODYBUILDING BECAUSE WHEN YOU LEAVE DRUGS ASIDE STRENGTH=MASS FOR ALL PRACTICAL PURPOSES.
And I think I need to explain myself better here because you cant seem to understand:
this:
1-3 Power
5-8 Strength
8-12 hypertrophy
12+ muscular endurance
Is full of conceptual mistakes and broscience. Strength = mass, power is a concept that IS NOT mere muscular response, it has a HUGE coordination aspect (what is called "cns training"). hypertrophy can be achieved in several ways (either actual protein muscle gain or glucose accumulation).
ALSO, THERE IS A REASON THESE TRAINERS PUBLISH BOOKS, ARE CITED ON STUDIES, CONDUCT STUDIES, BECAUSE THEY ARE REAL TRAINERS.
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Is it possible (naturally)?
My joints are going to shit and I can't go heavy. I can barely tolerate light weights but it's the cards I have to play with right now.
Been to doctor, did all kinds of tests..blood tests, etc. It's not anything but plain old tendonitis.
I figure I'll go light, up the volume, the sets, and keep going to failure.
Can one build strength/mass this way, or is it a lost cause?
Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit drinking.
Make sure to warmup thoroughly before every single new exercise. Give your joints the best chance at making it through each set pain free.
You can build good size with 12 reps. Probably with 15 reps too. Just eat right, get enough rest and workout regularly and you should look like a weight-trained person eventually.
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BOTH OF THESE ROUTINES ARE BULKING "BODYBUILDING" ROUTINES YOU DUMMY, LYLE MCDONALD AND PENDLAY "TRAIN" BODYBUILDERS TOO. BOTH OF THESE ROUTINES ARE FOR BODYBUILDING BECAUSE WHEN YOU LEAVE DRUGS ASIDE STRENGTH=MASS FOR ALL PRACTICAL PURPOSES.
And I think I need to explain myself better here because you cant seem to understand:
this:
1-3 Power
5-8 Strength
8-12 hypertrophy
12+ muscular endurance
Is full of conceptual mistakes and broscience. Strength = mass, power is a concept that IS NOT mere muscular response, it has a HUGE coordination aspect (what is called "cns training"). hypertrophy can be achieved in several ways (either actual protein muscle gain or glucose accumulation).
ALSO, THERE IS A REASON THESE TRAINERS PUBLISH BOOKS, ARE CITED ON STUDIES, CONDUCT STUDIES, BECAUSE THEY ARE REAL TRAINERS.
Dude, seriously. You must think I just started doing this shit.
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BOTH OF THESE ROUTINES ARE BULKING "BODYBUILDING" ROUTINES YOU DUMMY, LYLE MCDONALD AND PENDLAY "TRAIN" BODYBUILDERS TOO. BOTH OF THESE ROUTINES ARE FOR BODYBUILDING BECAUSE WHEN YOU LEAVE DRUGS ASIDE STRENGTH=MASS FOR ALL PRACTICAL PURPOSES.
And I think I need to explain myself better here because you cant seem to understand:
this:
1-3 Power
5-8 Strength
8-12 hypertrophy
12+ muscular endurance
Is full of conceptual mistakes and broscience. Strength = mass, power is a concept that IS NOT mere muscular response, it has a HUGE coordination aspect (what is called "cns training"). hypertrophy can be achieved in several ways (either actual protein muscle gain or glucose accumulation).
ALSO, THERE IS A REASON THESE TRAINERS PUBLISH BOOKS, ARE CITED ON STUDIES, CONDUCT STUDIES, BECAUSE THEY ARE REAL TRAINERS.
I'm just going to leave it at "you don't get it"!
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I'm just going to leave it at "you don't get it"!
Yep, I dont get it, you, who say HIIT cardiovascular exercise is anabolic do get it though.
Jesus ::) Trainers like you that have been doing this for years and years infest gyms worldwide, I really couldnt care any less that you have been doing this for years.
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the only thing that fucking matters is PEDs on top of common sense training and "diet"
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Yep, I dont get it, you, who say HIIT cardiovascular exercise is anabolic do get it though.
Jesus ::) Trainers like you that have been doing this for years and years infest gyms worldwide, I really couldnt care any less that you have been doing this for years.
I've put my credentials and who I've trained up here enough for you to figure it out. You're a dumb fuck to think just because someone had some papers (and had the time to do it, but thats for another thread) published means they are the be all to end all. I don't train bodybuilders, I quit doing that in the early 90's. BTW, it was MY trainers that were in this months NSCA Strength and Conditioning Research Journal (Published Research) at Cal State Fullerton (#1 Kinese dept in the country). These trainers were my interns before their employment with me. Again, STFU unless you want to keep going. BTW, the research is This months (Dec, Measuring Power) Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research. Dr. Jared Coburn, the author, also trains with me. Thanks for coming, be sure to tip your waiter on the way out.
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why is this representative of female gender with over 16k posts messing with men's business here ??? ???
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;D
The thing is, in the 70's mentzers urine would have been highly anabolic. Equivalent perhaps to anavar. ;D
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why is this representative of female gender with over 16k posts messing with men's business here ??? ???
Penis envy
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why is this representative of female gender with over 16k posts messing with men's business here ??? ???
Lol.
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I've put my credentials and who I've trained up here enough for you to figure it out. You're a dumb fuck to think just because someone had some papers (and had the time to do it, but thats for another thread) published means they are the be all to end all. I don't train bodybuilders, I quit doing that in the early 90's. BTW, it was MY trainers that were in this months NSCA Strength and Conditioning Research Journal (Published Research) at Cal State Fullerton (#1 Kinese dept in the country). These trainers were my interns before their employment with me. Again, STFU unless you want to keep going. BTW, the research is This months (Dec, Measuring Power) Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research. Dr. Jared Coburn, the author, also trains with me. Thanks for coming, be sure to tip your waiter on the way out.
This "Deleted One" bullshit is nothing but annoying.
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You know it's funny that you mention this cause despite what all the BS bad rap juice gets my joints are practically indestructible while on the juice. While I am off it is almost unbearable, sore joints all over the place and I can barely workout for this reason alone I will be on juice till I die. I have tried (while off juice) everything and have never found anything that works.
You know onetime, I suspect most folks glossed over your post. But it's bang on. I was riddled with joint pain from years of powerlifting naturally. Tried to move to a higher rep training program, and it still hurt like crazy. I was ready to give up.
Started some low dose test (500mg/week), now my joints feel like new. I still lift light weights, high reps, for the pump.
I'm never going off. I'll run this for the rest of my life. It's not enough to turn me into Mr. O. Just enough to make me feel 18 again. I'm about the same size/strength/cut I was when I was 25 and looked my best.
I truly believed all these guys who claim all this Rippetoe/Starr/Bompa stuff. I believe it to be true. But in real life, most men aren't genetically capable of lifting like that for very long without getting hurt. Then you spend 30 minutes before each workout doing stupid stretching, activation, foam rolling, etc...just so you can get thru 6 sets of bench press. Then you're spending time with an ART guy, spending money on chiropractors...for what? It's stupid unless you're an athlete.
Want to know what works, and will spare your joints? 500mg of test, light weights, lots of reps, a decently clean diet with lots of veggies and water. I wish I'd started years ago. I know I've killed my joints...I just hope the test (and decca when I switch) help rebuild them a bit to make up for my stupid youthful pursuits.
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You know onetime, I suspect most folks glossed over your post. But it's bang on. I was riddled with joint pain from years of powerlifting naturally. Tried to move to a higher rep training program, and it still hurt like crazy. I was ready to give up.
Started some low dose test (500mg/week), now my joints feel like new. I still lift light weights, high reps, for the pump.
I'm never going off. I'll run this for the rest of my life. It's not enough to turn me into Mr. O. Just enough to make me feel 18 again. I'm about the same size/strength/cut I was when I was 25 and looked my best.
I truly believed all these guys who claim all this Rippetoe/Starr/Bompa stuff. I believe it to be true. But in real life, most men aren't genetically capable of lifting like that for very long without getting hurt. Then you spend 30 minutes before each workout doing stupid stretching, activation, foam rolling, etc...just so you can get thru 6 sets of bench press. Then you're spending time with an ART guy, spending money on chiropractors...for what? It's stupid unless you're an athlete.
Want to know what works, and will spare your joints? 500mg of test, light weights, lots of reps, a decently clean diet with lots of veggies and water. I wish I'd started years ago. I know I've killed my joints...I just hope the test (and decca when I switch) help rebuild them a bit to make up for my stupid youthful pursuits.
a lot of truth in here
i'm still fairly young and realized this before it got out of hand
a lot of resistance from my peers who think i have become a pussy
per haps
or maybe i just realized that low rep squatting with locking out knees is really tough on the joints
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I always wear a belt and knee wraps no matter what weight i lift, could give a rat's ass what others think.. but i like my knees (which are already sorta destroyed from years of martial arts abuse no way going back around that now) and i like my back ...
Just a thought... I see no point in being a hero and using no safety gear... sure you could work up to that, get stronger and still feel safe.. but... meh i'll play it safe that way.. and still outlift the next guy who thinks he's macho for using no safety gear :) I'm slowly getting older too.. I wana do this into old age, until the day I die. I love BB, lifting, etc... To me that's a non-brainer... common sense.
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Have some meth and chase it down with his own urine?
You forgot the filterless Camels! ;) (In all fairness, Mike told me he started smoking in the looney bin, which would've been the mid/late 80s -- partly because ALL crazy people usually smoke, but also because his idols Rand and Art Jones were chimneys.)
So, yeah, during his heydey, urine and some amphetamines was it. And Deca, which he held in VERY high regard.
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You forgot the filterless Camels! ;) (In all fairness, Mike told me he started smoking in the looney bin, which would've been the mid/late 80s -- partly because ALL crazy people usually smoke, but also because his idols Rand and Art Jones were chimneys.)
So, yeah, during his heydey, urine and some amphetamines was it. And Deca, which he held in VERY high regard.
Apparently objectivist all have some kind of smoking fetish. He had no problem with deca dick? It's cool that you knew him.
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A BIG NO!.
mixing rep ranges means you exhaust your nervous system trying to optimise responses. spend at least 6 weeks on any rep scheme, range, before changing it, and even then, dont make the change drastic. (i.e. dont go from 6 reps to 20. )
well first of all, i didnt say explicitly to use a mix of rep ranges within the same workout. i just said a mix of rep ranges. that can mean doing one rep range for a month, then changing to another rep range for a month, etc. or it can mean do one rap range one week, and a different rep range the next week. or it can mean doing a mix of rep ranges within the same workout. do what works for you, above all else. i wouldnt get too caught up in trying to develop strict rules for success like you seem to be doing. theres a million ways to skin a cat. i know several people who like to mix rep ranges within the same workout. periodizing between month-to-month mixing of rep ranges, week-to-week, and incorporating different rep ranges in the same workout could be an effective way to train. but then again, do what works for you ;)
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I've put my credentials and who I've trained up here enough for you to figure it out. You're a dumb fuck to think just because someone had some papers (and had the time to do it, but thats for another thread) published means they are the be all to end all. I don't train bodybuilders, I quit doing that in the early 90's. BTW, it was MY trainers that were in this months NSCA Strength and Conditioning Research Journal (Published Research) at Cal State Fullerton (#1 Kinese dept in the country). These trainers were my interns before their employment with me. Again, STFU unless you want to keep going. BTW, the research is This months (Dec, Measuring Power) Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research. Dr. Jared Coburn, the author, also trains with me. Thanks for coming, be sure to tip your waiter on the way out.
Ill gladly wait and see what "you" are publishing coachie, Ill even read it.
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Cal State Fullerton (#1 Kinese dept in the country)
???
They are not ranked at all by the National Academy of Kinesiology or the National Research Council.
http://www.nationalacademyofkinesiology.org/results
http://chronicle.com/article/NRC-Rankings-Overview-/124739/
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Ill gladly wait and see what "you" are publishing coachie, Ill even read it.
Like I've got time ::)
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a lot of truth in here
i'm still fairly young and realized this before it got out of hand
a lot of resistance from my peers who think i have become a pussy
per haps
or maybe i just realized that low rep squatting with locking out knees is really tough on the joints
As much as we all ride Bob Chick, he was wise to this as well, if you're lifting to look good.
You have to choose - weights are the means to an end, or an end in and of themselves.
Bodybuilders lift weights as the means to an end - to develop the body.
Athletes lift weights as the means to an end - to become better athletes.
Powerlifters lift weights as the end in and of itself - to lift a weight.
Bodybuilders and athletes don't need explosive movements in the gym, or heavy weights, to get better. The risk of getting hurt in the gym is a stupid one to take when you consider the cost. And the physical pay-off (bigger, stronger muscles) is so small over the long term when you consistently employ heavy weights as to be not worth it. This is my opinion. I really don't care what anyone else thinks.
Lord knows I've spent enough time in grad school laboratories and have read enough research to know that heavy weights are probably better. But the risk of getting hurt is just too great to accept. I refuse to lift like a champ to age 35 and then hang it up because my shitty genetics left me with weak joints that can't lift. I have bad genes, it is what it is. I'll lift like a pussy, but I'll look good and I'll be lifting into my 60's and 70's. And that's what matters to me.
Find your own path. Seek your own truth. Shake your head at those who would deter you from your truth. Listen to them, but stay your course.