how big can one get on just test, deca and gh.

[macos]

Yeah correct I got these the wrong way around in my confusion
So apologies for that rant
But the main point still stands, don't play guessing games with your hormones and you won't get problems. Control your estrogen correctly. If you have no sex drive then something is wrong and you need to address it. It's not the hormones fault or the hormone that does this it's simply failure to keep your hormones in the right ranges.

Personally I wouldn't use prami or caber because of IGF-1 depression. If estrogen is in the correct range or even on the lower side then the other hormones will likely fall into place as well. I've never seen a blood test that showed one high and not the other, just people playing guessing games lol

what about bromocriptine?

Now ronnie by the end of his career had nerve problems. He said jay will never get back into shape for the 2013 O, and that is what exactly happened. Could those nerve disturbances be because of long term usage of bromoccriptine/prami/caber?

Also, elevating B6 levels reduces prolactin. There are studies which state that even elevated levels of B6, a naturally occuring vitamin can cause nerve problems.

[a_ahmed]

Yeah correct I got these the wrong way around in my confusion
So apologies for that rant
But the main point still stands, don't play guessing games with your hormones and you won't get problems. Control your estrogen correctly. If you have no sex drive then something is wrong and you need to address it. It's not the hormones fault or the hormone that does this it's simply failure to keep your hormones in the right ranges.

Personally I wouldn't use prami or caber because of IGF-1 depression. If estrogen is in the correct range or even on the lower side then the other hormones will likely fall into place as well. I've never seen a blood test that showed one high and not the other, just people playing guessing games lol

Prami raises GH, caber lowers IGF1. I had a thread on the effects of prami once.

The thing I dont like about prami is how it makes me feel drowsy, not as responsive, tired, even if i take before bed.. some of the side effects subside but still... also i hate how it kills appetite.. useful on a cut i guess.. but not normally throughout the year or when trying to bulk... sucks big time... oh and prami lowers thyroid which sucks too.. but then there is a sudden burst of hyper activity when seizing which sucks kind of too.

[ESFitness]

Use A SERM? Would that accomplish this?

which is why I usually include 10mg nolva. "just in case" when I need to be hard.

[ESFitness]

what about bromocriptine?

Now ronnie by the end of his career had nerve problems. He said jay will never get back into shape for the 2013 O, and that is what exactly happened. Could those nerve disturbances be because of long term usage of bromoccriptine/prami/caber?

Also, elevating B6 levels reduces prolactin. There are studies which state that even elevated levels of B6, a naturally occuring vitamin can cause nerve problems.

jay's had nerve problems since '01/02. look back to 'I think' the 02 Arnold.. maybe 03 Arnold. one half of his body was wayyyy smaller due to nerve issues in his back/neck. this was long before prami/caber/bromo was popular.

[galeniko]

jay's had nerve problems since '01/02. look back to 'I think' the 02 Arnold.. maybe 03 Arnold. one half of his body was wayyyy smaller due to nerve issues in his back/neck. this was long before prami/caber/bromo was popular.

is there a way to fix that?i guess not.

i have the same issue, ever since some certain operation.

cant flex some muscles like before, theres just no "connection".

sometimes so bad that i have to rearrange my back, theres a tension tswisting the whole back somewhat.

[flinstones1]

why not
test/deca 6 weeks
test/eq/tren 6 weeks
dbol 4 weeks preworkout switched for test suspension pre workout indefinitely

[oni]

All terrible drugs lol...but I thought I'd mention trying letro since it is one of the strongest ais out there, and if anything would help lowering estrogen it would be that drug.

But it leaves the question that if in fact nandrolone raises estrogen through other methods, such as what esfitness posted....how on earth does one go about controlling that?

An aromatase inhibitor would do absolutely nothing when a drug doesn't need the aromatase enzyme to raise estrogen....

Listen, I'm not going to repeat this again.
The dick problems are not "caused" by deca or tren. It's a failure to keep your hormones in check by playing guessing games. If estrogen is in line, most other things will be as well. Yeah there are plenty of other things. If you're cool with doing them then fine.

[oni]

Prami raises GH, caber lowers IGF1. I had a thread on the effects of prami once.

The thing I dont like about prami is how it makes me feel drowsy, not as responsive, tired, even if i take before bed.. some of the side effects subside but still... also i hate how it kills appetite.. useful on a cut i guess.. but not normally throughout the year or when trying to bulk... sucks big time... oh and prami lowers thyroid which sucks too.. but then there is a sudden burst of hyper activity when seizing which sucks kind of too.

Sweet bro

[anabolichalo]

i think u can get prety big on nothing but test

[flinstones1]

Listen, I'm not going to repeat this again.
The dick problems are not "caused" by deca or tren. It's a failure to keep your hormones in check by playing guessing games. If estrogen is in line, most other things will be as well. Yeah there are plenty of other things. If you're cool with doing them then fine.

ok chad Nichols 

[ESFitness]

is there a way to fix that?i guess not.

i have the same issue, ever since some certain operation.

cant flex some muscles like before, theres just no "connection".

sometimes so bad that i have to rearrange my back, theres a tension tswisting the whole back somewhat.

I doubt it. if there were, i'd think jay would've had his fixed.. since jay does spend a lot of time and money on physical therapy stuff, if anybody would take it seriously and treated it, it'd be him.

nerve damage is a shitty deal.. u just gotta work around it. took my years to work around nerve damage in my chest due to my fractured sternum. now I have a degenerated C5 disk, and two compressed discs between my shoulder blades, and one of my lats don't 'pull out' or release like the other does.

just wear and tear I guess after doing this for about 20yrs. even trying to break up scar tissue doesn't seem to help much.

[anabolichalo]

I doubt it. if there were, i'd think jay would've had his fixed.. since jay does spend a lot of time and money on physical therapy stuff, if anybody would take it seriously and treated it, it'd be him.

nerve damage is a shitty deal.. u just gotta work around it. took my years to work around nerve damage in my chest due to my fractured sternum. now I have a degenerated C5 disk, and two compressed discs between my shoulder blades, and one of my lats don't 'pull out' or release like the other does.

just wear and tear I guess after doing this for about 20yrs. even trying to break up scar tissue doesn't seem to help much.

dont you think this is somehow related to your powerlifting approach to training?

[galeniko]

i think u can get prety big on nothing but test

yeah true.

btw on the tren issue, both progesterone and prolactine issues can happen.

I doubt it. if there were, i'd think jay would've had his fixed.. since jay does spend a lot of time and money on physical therapy stuff, if anybody would take it seriously and treated it, it'd be him.

nerve damage is a shitty deal.. u just gotta work around it. took my years to work around nerve damage in my chest due to my fractured sternum. now I have a degenerated C5 disk, and two compressed discs between my shoulder blades, and one of my lats don't 'pull out' or release like the other does.

just wear and tear I guess after doing this for about 20yrs. even trying to break up scar tissue doesn't seem to help much.

yah i figures, if ronnie and jay couldnt fix theirs, it wont happen.

agreed, its not just one muscle, it often drags down whole areas, same for me ,one side of the lats,in rdb pose i have to watch it in a mirror or the one lat will not go "out" just as you described too.

they do get a pump,though, its workable.

weirdest thing of all is, its also happening in the legs.just quads, but its happening.

[galeniko]

all studies i can find of tren is on cattle.

these dont mean shit, cattle isnt human.

so, nobody knows for sure.

but its notorious for bitch tits.

certainly amongst the unhonourable top drugs which can cause tits.

[Borracho]

I still am not convinced nandrolone or any nortestosterone based drugs are necessary at all for male bodybuilds.  With all the other drugs that are available and that imo work way fucking better, why bother with them?  If you use them at dosages where those sides are not an issue then fine, but going into megadosing and risking sides that there is little of nothing you can do to prevent is not worth it.  Stick with test and other dht based drugs.  

I know what you mean...the sides are much more more easier to control with these drugs.

what about bromocriptine?

Now ronnie by the end of his career had nerve problems. He said jay will never get back into shape for the 2013 O, and that is what exactly happened. Could those nerve disturbances be because of long term usage of bromoccriptine/prami/caber?

Also, elevating B6 levels reduces prolactin. There are studies which state that even elevated levels of B6, a naturally occuring vitamin can cause nerve problems.

I got an ebook on bromo if intersted...shoot me a pm with an email addy if you want it.

Use A SERM? Would that accomplish this?

I'm inclined to say the resulting estrogen would be much less than with aromitizing drugs but technically it should work for gyno. Wouldn't do much else for other estrogen related sides but if caused by any amount converted from nandrolone or other 19-nors, than one must be extremely sensitive. I know for myself, when test was kept low the issues I had were due to prolactin not estrogen. But yes no bloods so I'm just "playing guessing games" lol

[ESFitness]

dont you think this is somehow related to your powerlifting approach to training?

the compressed and degenerated discs in my my neck and back? yea. most likely. but I only did the powerlifting thing for 4yrs or so, and I'd already 'shrunk' about .75 of an inch before then.. now I'm down about 1.5"... my last high school physical I was 6' 1.5" , now I'm about 6.25" . due to squatting and deadlifting I'd suppose..

powerlifting helped my chest however.. since I'd always benched like a bodybuilder in the past, until I developed a bursa in my shoulder and couldn't press anything more than 10lbs without feeling like an ice-pic was being stabbed into my shoulder... started training with powerlifters and benching like powerlifters, and my bench press improved DRAMATICALLY, as well as my chest development and ability to involve pecs in pressing.

[bigmc]

it's the simplest and most effective combo of drugs to add size.

personally, i'd prefer to see 2g of test, 1g of deca and 100mg dbol per day with as much gh as you can afford for as long as you can afford it.... something like 16 weeks preferably.

keep your kcals high enough to grow and keep putting food in you every couple hours.

and when it's time to cut down and get hard, replace the deca with tren and replace the dbol with anadrol.

what gh do you recommend

ansome is available but you don't hear much about it anymore

[ESFitness]

what gh do you recommend

ansome is available but you don't hear much about it anymore

humatrope, norditropin, and serostim... in that order.

most my clients get their gh from legit pharma sources/docs.

the Chinese generic gh's change too often.. mixed reviews, ect... drop 2g's one month on supposedly good black tops that give great results at 10iu, or 2g's the next month on blue tops with supposedly great reviews that you need 15iu's to get numb hands and high blood sugar. 

[trapz101]

how would you grade pharm grade to generic?5iu pharm grade is better than 10iu generic?what's your take?

[chess315]

how would you grade pharm grade to generic?5iu pharm grade is better than 10iu generic?what's your take?

I would be intrested in efs take also and what generics he would choose if that was hi only maybe we cans start a thread

[OTHstrong]

I would be intrested in efs take also and what generics he would choose if that was hi only maybe we cans start a thread

He is right with generics it is not consistent so basically you have to do the research to know what is circulating and what has the best reviews at the time and know that what you get today does not translate into a good purchase 3 years down the road.

I like to be on top of things here and by the looks of it the top 2 generics that carry over 5000 reviews in the last 24 months are riptropins and hygetropins. Reviews are from users all over the world and are shown on many different sites. Some are good reviews, some are bad, I would only look into the generics that have at least a 90% good review total.

Do your research and you will not get ripped off.

[galeniko]

humatrope, norditropin, and serostim... in that order.

most my clients get their gh from legit pharma sources/docs.

the Chinese generic gh's change too often.. mixed reviews, ect... drop 2g's one month on supposedly good black tops that give great results at 10iu, or 2g's the next month on blue tops with supposedly great reviews that you need 15iu's to get numb hands and high blood sugar. 

thank god someone finally says it like it is,theres nothing to add.

chinese gh can work, but never as good as the pharmacy stuff, and you simply never know.

if one cant afford the pharma gh, he cant afford the lifestyle most likely and its best to just stay away altogether imo

[Big Chiro Flex]

ok chad Nichols 

 

[macos]

Prami raises GH, caber lowers IGF1. I had a thread on the effects of prami once.

The thing I dont like about prami is how it makes me feel drowsy, not as responsive, tired, even if i take before bed.. some of the side effects subside but still... also i hate how it kills appetite.. useful on a cut i guess.. but not normally throughout the year or when trying to bulk... sucks big time... oh and prami lowers thyroid which sucks too.. but then there is a sudden burst of hyper activity when seizing which sucks kind of too.

post a link to your thread

[ESFitness]

He is right with generics it is not consistent so basically you have to do the research to know what is circulating and what has the best reviews at the time and know that what you get today does not translate into a good purchase 3 years down the road.

I like to be on top of things here and by the looks of it the top 2 generics that carry over 5000 reviews in the last 24 months are riptropins and hygetropins. Reviews are from users all over the world and are shown on many different sites. Some are good reviews, some are bad, I would only look into the generics that have at least a 90% good review total.

Do your research and you will not get ripped off.

I can't say I've heard too many bad things about rips...  but I have heard some "I dunno, I think it's good" stuff off and on about hyge's. i'd be leary of Chinese gh being ghrp2 or something that'll still produce bloat and water gain and possibly a lil bit numb hands and better sleep.

if I were gonna go with Chinese, i'd probably go with rips.

and surely not kigtropin.. all the stuff about 'we add igf-1 & insulin to the kigtropin' makes me super suspicious. I don't want anything BUT gh in my gh.