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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: chess315 on September 08, 2017, 03:47:08 AM

Title: Dips
Post by: chess315 on September 08, 2017, 03:47:08 AM
    Said to be the upper body squat what are your thoughts on them.
Title: Re: Dips
Post by: NaturalWonder83 on September 08, 2017, 06:25:55 PM
   Said to be the upper body squat what are your thoughts on them.
i think they're amazing for the tris and chest
You should have the mechanics to do them correctly-core braced, no stress on neck, shoulders not rolled forward, not using the lower back to cheat
But I think you need to be extremely careful with them
They're one of the best exercises but also one of the exercises that can truly mess u up
Title: Re: Dips
Post by: Royalty on September 09, 2017, 02:50:04 AM
I once read that doing dips is the real test to see if you have healthy shoulders.

Doing pain-free dips let's you know that your wrists, elbows, and shoulders are healthy.

Probably just like squats... letting you know that your ankles, knees, and hip joints are healthy.
Title: Re: Dips
Post by: oldtimer1 on September 10, 2017, 05:09:06 PM
Most guys do dips really shallow and would benefit from doing them deeper. I think if you can do them then they are an outstanding exercise. So many guys have wrecked shoulders from benching that they can't do them without pain.
Title: Re: Dips
Post by: jpm101 on September 14, 2017, 08:56:55 AM
Dips, an overlooked exercise for many guys, that when done with serious intend can give serious results. If most guys would spend as much time dipping, avoiding benching, all might result in less shoulder girdle problems and better over all mass.. With basic dips your pushing down and along side the body, with a better natural grip (palms facing).  

When using a "V" dipping bar, a variety of hand positions, from narrow to wide, can be done as opposed to a regular dipping bar. . There's are also wider dips with the knuckles facing forward, giving a whole different stretch and feel to the exercise. Which ever you use, "V" bar or regular bar, a closer grip hits the triceps more. as a wider grip hits the chest more. Both hit the anterior delts. Holding a up right or a leaning forward position which dipping   cna change the whole affect of the exercise.

Ring dips are another very effective way to dip. Recruiting more muscle involvement because of the challenge of the stabilization of the whole body during reps. A core movement for gymnast.

Good Luck.

 
Title: Re: Dips
Post by: chaos on September 17, 2017, 02:32:46 PM
I know 2 people that have torn their pecs while dipping.
Title: Re: Dips
Post by: oldtimer1 on September 17, 2017, 02:48:57 PM
I know 2 people that have torn their pecs while dipping.

Wow, I wonder if their shoulders were tight from benching I think benches really contributes to inflexible shoulders. I notice a technique everyone is using now using various boards on the chest for partial benches. It's really not a new technique. I just see every power lifter using it now.  I think Chuck Sipes a bodybuilder was the pioneer of it. He used a power rack. Started doing his sets for a couple of weeks doing quarter reps lock outs. Then a couple weeks of half reps. Then 3/4 reps. Going to full reps it feels like you have a spring from the tightness.  I tried that when I heard of it in my 20's.  My shoulder went immediately out.  The guys with the boards use the same concept but they stick to around 3/4 reps. Personally I thing it's a recipe to really mess up your shoulder joint.
Title: Re: Dips
Post by: robcguns on November 09, 2017, 06:07:14 AM
I started doing dips at 14 and did them until last year 24 years.my best was 2 100lb plates between legs weighing 260 for 8 when I did dips I went down as far as you cocan of go and I believe it is what ruined my shoulders.I did a body weight set and got over 100 at 250.Tris,chest and shoulders got most there size from dips I believe.I would do 20 sets once a week of dips.Beat exercise ever if your shoulders can handl them.
Title: Re: Dips
Post by: Grape Ape on November 09, 2017, 10:19:21 AM
I started doing dips at 14 and did them until last year 24 years.my best was 2 100lb plates between legs weighing 260 for 8 when I did dips I went down as far as you cocan of go and I believe it is what ruined my shoulders.I did a body weight set and got over 100 at 250.Tris,chest and shoulders got most there size from dips I believe.I would do 20 sets once a week of dips.Beat exercise ever if your shoulders can handl them.

That's some legit weight.  Props.

I was able to do 10 reps with 3-45s, using the leaning forward style.

Now I avoid them completely.  One, I've had both shoulders fixed, but two, they really stress the insertions on the sternum, which always causes me pain.

Title: Re: Dips
Post by: jpm101 on November 09, 2017, 12:21:45 PM
The subjects of dips always reminds me of the late great Marvin Eder. His 400lb dips for 7 reps and his 430 for one rep  is something I'd remembering reading about as a teenager. He also did something like one arm pull ups for 7 or 8 reps.  Eder weighed around 198, and that bwt never seemed to change his whole life. He was a one in a million natural strongman. Being born with superior ligament and tendon doesn't hurt either.

If only doing two exercises for the upper body, might suggest the dip and pull ups...throwing in chin up as a alternate from time to time. Of course few take them seriously today, which is a mistake on their parts. Both exercises are know as body through space movements.

I've worked with a few gymnast before in the weight room at college and other training places, and yes they can include  weight training. Not just their strength in dips & chins (push-pull) but extension exercises like DB lateral, front and rear raises.  Example might be holds. Press a  DB overhead, than lower it out to the side and hold that DB position for 10 to 15 seconds each rep.  Than raise it back overhead again for another rep. Working that style with DB rear delt raised give not  only stable holding power but impressive read delts. This also improves the ligament and tendon strength, a very important element in any sport.

Good Luck.
Title: Re: Dips
Post by: joeygym65 on November 09, 2017, 12:24:48 PM
Great exercise. Always throw it in on my chest and tris days.
Title: Re: Dips
Post by: sync pulse on November 09, 2017, 11:25:18 PM
.
Title: Re: Dips
Post by: sync pulse on November 09, 2017, 11:28:12 PM
In seriousness, they're great...If you are advanced enough to have fun doing them.  If it's too much of a struggle you should use a push-down machine so you don't get frustrated...After a couple of months work the bodyweight dips in.
Title: Re: Dips
Post by: Montague on November 26, 2017, 06:20:39 PM
Dips, an overlooked exercise for many guys, that when done with serious intend can give serious results. If most guys would spend as much time dipping, avoiding benching, all might result in less shoulder girdle problems and better over all mass.. With basic dips your pushing down and along side the body, with a better natural grip (palms facing).  

When using a "V" dipping bar, a variety of hand positions, from narrow to wide, can be done as opposed to a regular dipping bar. . There's are also wider dips with the knuckles facing forward, giving a whole different stretch and feel to the exercise. Which ever you use, "V" bar or regular bar, a closer grip hits the triceps more. as a wider grip hits the chest more. Both hit the anterior delts. Holding a up right or a leaning forward position which dipping   cna change the whole affect of the exercise.

Ring dips are another very effective way to dip. Recruiting more muscle involvement because of the challenge of the stabilization of the whole body during reps. A core movement for gymnast.

Good Luck.


My original gym had a set of v-bars... in storage. I was always disappointed they never had or made the room to bring them out.
A friend who still trains there recently told me the owners finally got rid of the apparatus.

Never having the luxury of their presence, I've found ways to adapt as best I can to make do with available gym equipment.
One of my current gyms has adjustable dipping bars, which allow you to alternate between a narrow and wider grip. These are my favorite. The gym I frequent most often has bars spaced about a "medium" distance apart.

For chest, I love adopting a modified grip (wide when possible) in which I face away from the bars (opposite the way most people use them) and place my palms on the ends of the handles such that my knuckles are turned in about 45 degrees from a neutral position. I then maintain a concave body arch from head to toe with my chin tucked down. Elbows flare out to the side. I lower myself down for a nice stretch, pause, and fire up just short of lock out. Used as a second or third exercise on chest day, I love the feel of these.
My inspiration for this style is based on a variation Larry Scott used on v-bars.

As for weighted dips, I mainly do them as a substitute for close-grip presses when training without a spotter. I try to keep my body as perpendicular as I can during execution, but the belt has a tendency to pull my torso a bit forward, which recruits a little more chest than I'd like. I still love them done this way.
Title: Re: Dips
Post by: robcguns on December 01, 2017, 03:31:51 AM
Incredible exercise for shoulder,chest and triceps thickness and strength.Horrible for shoulder joints.Dips were my favorite exercise and I would of do 20 sets at a time for many years.i couldn Do over 100 bodyweight and do 10 reps with 200 lbs hanging from me.My shoulders are now shot due to this.Prob because I would go down so far to where my chin was at hand level.
Title: Re: Dips
Post by: chess315 on December 08, 2017, 05:07:49 PM
Im seriously debating getting some heavy duty dip bars or a power rack with dip bars
Title: Re: Dips
Post by: Montague on December 09, 2017, 04:00:13 AM
Im seriously debating getting some heavy duty dip bars or a power rack with dip bars


I've heard of some guys using these in their home gyms with good results.


(http://ace.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pACE3-10458307enh-z8.jpg)


An added advantage is that you can vary the spacing and angle of the handles in relation to each other.
Title: Re: Dips
Post by: jpm101 on December 09, 2017, 12:20:46 PM
Saw horses are good. The ones in the picture are easily folded up, just grab the finger holes in the middle and lift.  A few guy's will complain that their not high enough, but those guy's tend to complain about every little thing anyway.  Can space to about any angle and width, though may be a little awkward if moving them too close together. .  Seen some do handstand presses on sawhorses as part of a workout.  The say it's easier...don't know myself.

Use to workout at a neighborhood garage gym growing up. It had a three legged (4x4's) tri shaped dipping arrangement, with 2x6's has the "bars" for the hands. Adjust a few bolts and you could move the 2x6  "bars" to a "V" type position and back to the original  parallel position.  Pretty clever the way it was made. Sad part, some druggie was lighting up a meth pipe outside the garage one early morning and burned the garage down.


Naturally if going extremely low with dips, where the joints, muscle inserts, ligaments and tendons are exposed to  a unneeded problem, than a problem will occur . Not so much that  most any exercise can be a danger sooner or later, but the manner in which that given exercise is preformed.  

Good Luck.

Title: Re: Dips
Post by: Montague on December 09, 2017, 12:38:58 PM
JPM, good to see you here as always, Sir.
I haven't been online as much lately.

How have you been?

Catch any good waves this year?
Title: Re: Dips
Post by: jpm101 on December 10, 2017, 09:27:43 AM
Montague

Status Que with me.

Come here now and than.  GB is really falling apart as a training/workout site. Tries to become all things to all people, which means more keystrokes and more money coming in, which also means it's removed from actual BB'ing. BB'ing a very small sub culture as it is.  Of course it takes big bucks to set this site up  and run it, so I can see that side of it. Been told from some lab people/kids that this is a very easy site to hack into. Wouldn't know myself., doesn't draw my interest.

Surfing at San Onofre from time to time. And other spots along PCH (don't want to give away my secret surfing spots).  Haven't been to Baja for over a year, maybe next year. Usually OK but travel in groups if driving down there. Got stories that you don't get in the news about some pretty nasty stuff going on.

Workout with short and to the point workouts, normally twice a week. Backed off some of the heavier stuff...like most 40 years old do (or should). Common sense really. Never had any major injuries since starting lifting as a teenager.  Did have lower spinal surgery from a football injury while a senior in college.

Hope you and yours have a great holiday season.


Good Luck.



Title: Re: Dips
Post by: Montague on December 10, 2017, 10:02:40 AM
Montague

Status Que with me.

Come here now and than.  GB is really falling apart as a training/workout site. Tries to become all things to all people, which means more keystrokes and more money coming in, which also means it's removed from actual BB'ing. BB'ing a very small sub culture as it is.  Of course it takes big bucks to set this site up  and run it, so I can see that side of it. Been told from some lab people/kids that this is a very easy site to hack into. Wouldn't know myself., doesn't draw my interest.

Surfing at San Onofre from time to time. And other spots along PCH (don't want to give away my secret surfing spots).  Haven't been to Baja for over a year, maybe next year. Usually OK but travel in groups if driving down there. Got stories that you don't get in the news about some pretty nasty stuff going on.

Workout with short and to the point workouts, normally twice a week. Backed off some of the heavier stuff...like most 40 years old do (or should). Common sense really. Never had any major injuries since starting lifting as a teenager.  Did have lower spinal surgery from a football injury while a senior in college.

Hope you and yours have a great holiday season.


Good Luck.


Same to you and yours, my friend!!
Title: Re: Dips
Post by: chess315 on December 16, 2017, 07:40:19 PM

Same to you and yours, my friend!!
Im slowly be convinced dips and chins (curl grip) are the to best upper body exercises ever I believe science agrees to if you count out deadlifts
Title: Re: Dips
Post by: Montague on December 17, 2017, 04:17:40 AM
Im slowly be convinced dips and chins (curl grip) are the to best upper body exercises ever I believe science agrees to if you count out deadlifts


They're fantastic!
No matter how you do them, you will recruit at least some degree of chest, triceps, and maybe even a little bit of lat and delt involvement for some people.

But, yeah - chins, deads, and dips are ALL terrific movements that provide tremendous payoff for the work invested.
Title: Re: Dips
Post by: QuietYou on December 17, 2017, 04:21:02 AM
Agreed that dips are great
Title: Re: Dips
Post by: chess315 on February 09, 2018, 11:17:46 AM

They're fantastic!
No matter how you do them, you will recruit at least some degree of chest, triceps, and maybe even a little bit of lat and delt involvement for some people.

But, yeah - chins, deads, and dips are ALL terrific movements that provide tremendous payoff for the work invested.
yes maybe throw in a bench , bentrow, military press that's all you need another thing about military press it hits the long head of the tricep good unlike the bench you could look perfect
Title: Re: Dips
Post by: oldtimer1 on February 23, 2018, 04:31:29 PM
I usually do dips with attached weight first thing in my tricep workout. Now I put them in at the end and I think I'm on to something. After I do my standard triceps stuff like push downs, skull crush and others I now end with body weight dips. I think it working better than using  attached weight and putting them in first. The pre fatigue hits the tricep hard.
Title: Re: Dips
Post by: benchmstr on February 23, 2018, 11:44:40 PM
I love them..all variations sans bench dips..

Have a shoulder injury that’s not fully healed and haven’t been able to do them for a while

Bench
Title: Re: Dips
Post by: oldtimer1 on February 25, 2018, 10:16:38 AM
I love them..all variations sans bench dips..

Have a shoulder injury that’s not fully healed and haven’t been able to do them for a while

Bench

Shoulder injuries are horrible. The older I get the more I believe that if anything aggravates an injured area you should just drop it and never look back.  I can't bench anymore but I can still bench with dumbbells. Every time I think I can work back into the bench the reason I stopped comes screaming back.
Title: Re: Dips
Post by: benchmstr on March 01, 2018, 02:34:47 PM
Shoulder injuries are horrible. The older I get the more I believe that if anything aggravates an injured area you should just drop it and never look back.  I can't bench anymore but I can still bench with dumbbells. Every time I think I can work back into bench the reason I stopped comes screaming back.
It’s actu a bicep injury..I had the tendon snap at the shoulder and reattached..but it hurts in the shoulder

Bench
Title: Re: Dips
Post by: oldtimer1 on March 01, 2018, 07:48:43 PM
It’s actu a bicep injury..I had the tendon snap at the shoulder and reattached..but it hurts in the shoulder

Bench

I had a distal bicep rupture. I also think I have problems at the shoulder attachment too. Many years since I had the operation. Maybe 15 years. Coming out of the operation when I could finally lift light I had trouble benching the bar. Just shows how no muscle works in isolation.
Title: Re: Dips
Post by: Sexybeast777 on March 02, 2018, 07:41:48 AM
I avoid dips, is this bad?
Title: Re: Dips
Post by: benchmstr on March 02, 2018, 08:15:43 AM
I avoid dips, is this bad?
Not really..lots of people can’t do them anyways..be it strength or build type

Bench
Title: Re: Dips
Post by: Sexybeast777 on March 02, 2018, 08:31:29 AM
Not really..lots of people can’t do them anyways..be it strength or build type

Bench
I can do them, even weighted dips with 100lbs for reps, but idk, they seems to kinda be bad for me, not directly in the shoulders but, idk, it hurts my body somehow, maybe just body weight is fine but the benefits seem minimal. I stick to what works, flat bench press and flat dumbell press
Title: Re: Dips
Post by: Sexybeast777 on March 07, 2018, 09:08:21 PM
today I did dips for the first time in a long time, idk if I did 30 or 50 reps(just body weight), I don't remember, but it's written in my log. Trying to get ripped  is affecting my strength a bit, so I'm thinking of ditching the flat dumbell press for dips, what do you think?
Title: Re: Dips
Post by: IroNat on May 13, 2018, 02:04:23 PM
My 2 cents on dips and avoiding shoulder injury.

Don't go too low.  90 degree angle forearm to upper arm is low enough.

Don't go crazy heavy.  Go for reps of 8+.
Title: Re: Dips
Post by: Sadovnik on August 14, 2019, 08:34:16 PM
I do dips on running machines, extra wide grip, slowly...
Title: Re: Dips
Post by: Leevancleef1 on January 05, 2020, 03:15:14 PM
Shoulder injuries are horrible. The older I get the more I believe that if anything aggravates an injured area you should just drop it and never look back.  I can't bench anymore but I can still bench with dumbbells. Every time I think I can work back into the bench the reason I stopped comes screaming back.

Dude - try a bar like this..I am 55 now Shoulder pain kept me from benching for years..this type of grip completely took my shoulder pain away :

https://www.titan.fitness/strength/barbells/specialty/multi-grip-barbell-%7C-v2/430122.html
Title: Re: Dips
Post by: oldtimer1 on January 05, 2020, 03:53:02 PM
Dude - try a bar like this..I am 55 now Shoulder pain kept me from benching for years..this type of grip completely took my shoulder pain away :

https://www.titan.fitness/strength/barbells/specialty/multi-grip-barbell-%7C-v2/430122.html

Thanks, might get it or just bench with hands facing with dumbbells.
Title: Re: Dips
Post by: Humble Narcissist on January 31, 2020, 12:59:34 PM
Dips are probably great but they always irritated my shoulders.
Title: Re: Dips
Post by: Primemuscle on January 31, 2020, 04:16:18 PM
Dips are probably great but they always irritated my shoulders.

My sister tore her shoulder doing body-weight dips and ended up having surgery to repair it. 
Title: Re: Dips
Post by: Humble Narcissist on January 31, 2020, 04:21:09 PM
My sister tore her shoulder doing body-weight dips and ended up having surgery to repair it. 
I always felt like I was real close to doing the same thing.
Title: Re: Dips
Post by: Montague on February 01, 2020, 04:23:32 AM
My sister tore her shoulder doing body-weight dips and ended up having surgery to repair it. 

I always felt like I was real close to doing the same thing.


Could be a matter of technique - maybe going too deep at the bottom and applying too much stress to the shoulders.

Or, biomechanics often play a role. Some folks are at a mechanical disadvantage for certain movements. Some people aren’t “built” to squat or deadlift well, or at all. Other people are built to excel at those movements.

I tend to avoid exercises that cause consistent pain or severe discomfort regardless of the reason. At almost 41, I haven’t suffered a major injury in the gym - knock on wood.

There are workarounds for many exercises, and I never hesitate to rely on them when needed.
Title: Re: Dips
Post by: greg2112 on May 13, 2020, 09:36:01 AM
Best investment for my garage last summer was having a local welder build me a v dip bar station for my specifications.  Stands at 60 inches so I can keep my legs straight and the bars v out starting at 24 inches out to 35.  6’3 and it’s the perfect blast.  That wide angle absolutely destroys my pecs especially the upper pecs.  The v dip bar definitely the goat for me with pec training.  Been doing dips for over 20 years and never one issue.  Like anything it’s all about form. 
Title: Re: Dips
Post by: Primemuscle on May 13, 2020, 02:38:03 PM
I'm not lucky enough to have a V dip station. Regular dips have never been an issue for me. Like you mentioned, it is mostly about using proper form. This is true for all exercises.

I too have never suffered an injury from working out. On rare occasion, my back goes out and it's always caused by turning wrong or more curiously something causes it that I cannot pinpoint. Inactivity is a back killer. 
Title: Re: Dips
Post by: greg2112 on May 13, 2020, 07:06:33 PM
I'm not lucky enough to have a V dip station. Regular dips have never been an issue for me. Like you mentioned, it is mostly about using proper form. This is true for all exercises.

I too have never suffered an injury from working out. On rare occasion, my back goes out and it's always caused by turning wrong or more curiously something causes it that I cannot pinpoint. Inactivity is a back killer.

The V is definitely a difference maker and I agree regarding proper form on any exercise.  More and more as I age, a lot more mind muscle connection and time under tension. 
Title: Re: Dips
Post by: oldtimer1 on May 13, 2020, 07:26:22 PM
Mentzer called dips the upper body squat. For some reason they don't bother my bad shoulder. I have heard so many say they irritate their shoulders but the opposite is the case for me. I have trouble benching, shoulder pressing, inclines but declines and dips don't bother my shoulder.
Title: Re: Dips
Post by: funk51 on August 25, 2022, 03:34:25 PM
   
Title: Re: Dips
Post by: IroNat on August 25, 2022, 05:03:40 PM
Deeps and cheens, man.
Title: Re: Dips
Post by: Humble Narcissist on August 26, 2022, 02:53:28 AM
Deeps and cheens, man.
Pushups, chins and squats.
Title: Re: Dips
Post by: pkaz on September 01, 2022, 05:45:29 PM
Used to love suppersetting flat db flyes with dips. Learned this from Bertil Fox in the early 80's..
Title: Re: Dips
Post by: SweetDaddySiki on September 07, 2022, 11:25:15 AM
,
Title: Re: Dips
Post by: Primemuscle on September 07, 2022, 02:37:51 PM
Several years ago, my sister tore one of her shoulder tendons doing dips. It required surgery to repair it.
Title: Re: Dips
Post by: AbrahamG on September 07, 2022, 04:32:06 PM
The mere thought of dips make my shoulders cringe.
Title: Re: Dips
Post by: Humble Narcissist on September 08, 2022, 01:55:48 AM
The mere thought of dips make my shoulders cringe.
I hate them and haven't done any in years.
Title: Re: Dips
Post by: ThisisOverload on September 13, 2022, 04:23:45 PM
Several years ago, my sister tore one of her shoulder tendons doing dips. It required surgery to repair it.

I tore my ACL stepping off a 6" curb.
Title: Re: Dips
Post by: ThisisOverload on September 13, 2022, 04:25:19 PM
The mere thought of dips make my shoulders cringe.

I don't add weight to them anymore.

But to be honest my shoulders feel better after doing dips than bench presses with a barbell.

I've been doing a lot of decline DB presses lately, gives good feel.
Title: Re: Dips
Post by: sculpture on December 23, 2022, 01:42:50 PM
I can only speak for myself but they certainly feel better for my shoulders than bench press

Its been one of the few constants in my training rotations, in fact I've been doing them for 25 years now with little more than a week between sessions.
Title: Re: Dips
Post by: IroNat on December 26, 2022, 06:11:32 AM
If you go too deep with dips you can hurt your shoulders.

So don't.

If you read "how to do dips" they tell you to go as far down as you can.  Bad advices.
Title: Re: Dips
Post by: lamarclark09 on July 04, 2023, 01:13:09 AM
For upper body Dips are great as they target the outer chest and make your chest look bigger and wider. So they are considered good workouts.