Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: mitchyboy on June 21, 2008, 03:44:16 PM
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Personally I feel this is a poor choice of words, that leads many to undertrain. I feel a better term would be "under recuperating". Now granted, working 1 bodypart for 3-4 hours straight could be considered "overtraining",but if you have the energy to do that, your not working hard enough to begin with, which would lead one back to the conclusion that the intensity is so low, that it negates any so called "overtraining".
What are your thoughts on this.
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a lot of people say that, but it's entirely possible to train to the point that you simply cannot recuperate and maintain any kind of workout frequency.
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i dont agree with anyone working out for any more than an hour and a half. (give or take). even if you train high volume style with reps 15-20 and 4 sets per movement and 6-10 movements... you still should get that done within an hour and a half.
so yes, even for drug users, i think over trianing CAN BE real.
now, when you hear people say you should never work out 4 days in a row, or your should only do one set to failure for each body part. now that is bullshit.
you can train 6 days a week for an hour and a half every day and going to failure multiple times per workout and still not be overtrained.
but of course, you will need to eat more, rest more, properly supplement; and also training that much and that intense youd probably want to be on some kind of aas.
for the natural bodybuilder i think hard and heavy, get in and get out, 3-4 times a week is ideally how you want to train.
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Everybody’s body is different, so consider individual genetics.
Some people respond better to more volume; some do best with less.
Even then there are other factors that come into play such as nutrition, intensity (already mentioned), and down time.
I know of two guys who get fairly good results doing 2½ hour workouts, but only training 2 days per week. That’s an ass-load of volume in each workout, but with over 72 hours of recovery time in between.
I believe the trick is to experiment and find the max volume your body can handle while still fully recovering and do it.
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All of the above posts are correct depending on who you are and how you recoup after training.
Find your own training style that works for YOU, and work the shit out of it.
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Great responses, and I agree with all ;) I personally use a higher volume, training to failure 1-2 times per exercise, 3-4 sets per. I also use a lot of intensity boosters, but always for the last set of a given exercise.
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Great responses, and I agree with all ;) I personally use a higher volume, training to failure 1-2 times per exercise, 3-4 sets per. I also use a lot of intensity boosters, but always for the last set of a given exercise.
sounds like a solid routine my man.
pretty much what i do personally; except im instinctual and soemtimes iw ill just go super heavy for one or two sets, while soemtimes i will go lighter weight for 5-6 sets... just whatever my body feels like it needs that day.
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hardly anyone is more than 1,5 hours in teh gym anyway and if they are they spend a great deal resting, talking etc
i think its more about some people working soem bodyparts too often, like arms or chest because they believe more is better
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the routine i'm on requires over 90 minutes per workout. dear lord it's ridiculous.
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is it not just down to genes... ive trained 7 days in a row high vol, and 3 days a week low vol and got results each way
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Depending on your other daily activities you could put more time in the gym than others but experimentation seems to be the key. I used to think 2 hours sessions would be great but 30-45 minutes of hard lifting works better for me now. I find that I always feel "overtrained" when I am not eating enough, especially carbs. Couple that with harder workouts and you will feel overtrained. Like Magoo said, you reach a point where you do too much.
There is a distinction to be made though. Nobody is saying the body cannot do the work but can it do the work and grow to its full potential? I'd rather do 5 sets of full clean and jerks, go run intervals for endurance (maybe a 30 minute session) and then be done for the day. Most big guys I know don't lift for very long.
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Overtraining is the single most common reason for not making progress in the gym...
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Overtraining is the single most common reason for not making progress in the gym...
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i disagree entirely.
shitty diet and lack of sleep is the single most common reason. how many guys do you see busting their asses in the gym and find out they skipped breakfast and are gonna get 4 hours of sleep because tonight they'll be out drinking with the guys?
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i disagree entirely.
shitty diet and lack of sleep is the single most common reason. how many guys do you see busting their asses in the gym and find out they skipped breakfast and are gonna get 4 hours of sleep because tonight they'll be out drinking with the guys?
That's fine, i agree with you for the most part...
I know guys who drink their life away every night and eat whataburger, they are strong as fuck and hang with me in the gym every day. some of the strongest guys at my powerlifting gym used to go out drinking all the time and do rails of coke...the next day in the gym they trained like animals.
i also know guys who eat better than me, sleep perfect every night and live the "lifestyle"...these guys haven't made gains in 2 years because they don't know how to train properly...it goes both ways just like anything in life.
Some of my best workouts have been the day after an all night study binge for an exam. i shit you not, my 3 best workouts this year were after 5 hours of sleep, 2 cups of coffee and a decent breakfast.
i agree that nutrition and rest is important, but so is proper training. if a guy does 30 sets of bench press every 3 days, i don't think eating a ton and sleeping 12 hours a day would help him much, if at all.
of course this is just my opinion.
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I agree completely overload, but is that not just under recuperating? My problem comes when people try to push the HIT way of thinking on others. When you say "OVRTRAINING" it gives the impresion that you need to train less, and that may not be the case. My point is that the word itself, in my opinion, is a poor choice :)
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I agree completely overload, but is that not just under recuperating? My problem comes when people try to push the HIT way of thinking on others. When you say "OVRTRAINING" it gives the impresion that you need to train less, and that may not be the case. My point is that the word itself, in my opinion, is a poor choice :)
Exactly, but your body always recuperates the same, so it's the "overtraining" that causes the problem. ;)
You are correct, over training could be caused by frequency, too much volume, going to heavy...etc.
over the years you find a nice groove that works for you and this is the most important part of training. everyone trains a little differently and once you find what works for you the gains come much easier. each time i hit a plateau, i decreased the volume, increased the intensity and went right past it...just my .02
i hardly train more than 35-45 minutes...short and intense workouts are the best IMO.
Overtraining to me, is training way too frequently, or doing way too much volume to where your body will not recover by the next session.
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i dont agree with overtraining being the biggest reason people arent making progress in the gym, neither is nutrition, altho its very common to read in various articles. personally i think its mainly due to a mix of the following:
(1): people dont focus enough on getting stronger in the basic exercises (they dont challenge themselves and add weight to the bar). sure its easy to go to failure, and say your working hard, but thats not enough. you have to be very goal oriented inorder to make progress. all the time trying to do better. a log book helps tremendously.
(2): people simply arent working hard enough. they may very well be in the gym several days per week, and on paper have a good workout routine´, but that doesnt mean they are training hard enough.
(3): no clear and defined short term goals (just vague longterm goals)
(4): no plan
are there more reasons? of course, and overtraining is a factor in some cases and poor nutrition too. but in my opinion, not the main reasons. i think a big % of the people who arent making progress are simply not working out hard enough in the basic exercises and are forgetting to add weight to the bar. they also lack focus when in the gym. too many factors change from week to week.
they go in the gym and work for example 'chest', they do incline barbell press then flat db press then peck deck and finish off with cable crossovers, but they dont log the weight they use, and next week dont really try to beat the previous weights. often they will change things up too.and do the exercises in a different order and maybe subsitute a couple of exercises. this doesnt 'shock' the muscle...all it does it make it harder to chart progress. and 'shocking' the muscles is also often used as an excuse not to increase the weights.
another thing i wanna comment on is that many of the Flex routines are actually not high volume routines...because they use a pyramid system; you do 4 different exercises for chest...but only the last set is tough....and probably only the first couple of exercises are heavy basic exercises. so in reality your maybe doing 16sets on paper, but only 4 of them are tough...and even worse your probably only working the muscle once a week.
edit: i wanna add acouple of other points. (5) crappy workout programs that have you work a muscle only once a week (slows down training progress alot for the genetically average person
(6) not being consistant enough (this could be included in points 1-4)
compared to overtraining , i think point 1-6 are more common reasons for lack of progress. (obviously you can have both in some situations)
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Good post...i agree 100%.
there are too many variables to lable one as the most common, i should have worded it differently in my original post.
most people, for lack of a better term, train "stupid".
Having a plan and a log is the first thing any person should have when training. i have logs from 7 years ago that i look at sometimes just to have a laugh. it's amazing how much my training has changed over 10+ years...
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Not a myth, overtraining can be a major roadblock to steady progress. Getting to the basic biological/physical requirement, the body must recover to with-in it's state of full normal function after any intense training session. This factor allows the body to adapt to the next workout with the capacity to increase and have steady advancement from workout to workout. Recovery is of vital importance and can be the main element for success. If that means 3, 2 or 1 workout a week for you, than that's the way it is. Five or more workout days a week may be considered the extreme if real progress is the goal. Of course we have the blessed ones who can get big and strong as if by accident, doing any type of training Most of the people who come here are no where near that breed of lifter.
As far as avoiding overtraining, the common denominator for training progress is short and to the point workouts. Combine that with the intention of preforming that workout with serious intent. Plan the training sessions, train smart, hard and at a good workout pace. Keep an up to date training log (as has been suggested before) Do not need any more than 2 movements (if that) per major body parts. Or any higher than 4-6 sets for any body part. Ten sets on some special programs, but usually preformed once a week per body part and on a 6-8 week cycle. Given this, any workout should never last longer than 45 minutes. Try avoiding the point of failure on any rep or set.Good Luck.
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i really do dislike the "never go above X minutes" idea. it's not like at the 45-60 minute mark suddenly catabolism comes flying through your veins like a fire hose. it all depends on WHAT you do in that time. that's how you have olympic lifters in the gym for 2+ hours a day getting better while the HIT acolytes tend to burn out in 45.
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I honestly don't care how long my workout goes for. If you swear by the whole "gotta keep it under 45 mins" notion, at times you are short changing yourself by rushing yourself.
Personally i think the biggest cause of over training is the endless sets and exercises most people do. I'm doing back today, and ill do 3 exercises. I see people do back doing 6 exercises and 3-4 sets per exercise.
If you cut your exercises down and put more effort into those 2-3 rather than doing 5-6 exercises, you will get more out of the exercises that you choose to do, and your workout will be quicker.
Over training can be a real problem obviously, but with a good diet and smart training, its easy to avoid. Too many people generalise and say that anyone training over 60mins is over training, or doing more than 3 sets an exercise is over training. It might be for you, but we are all different.
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Of course we will all have to decide what to do with the time spent in a gym. Will the longer workouts ( hour and a half plus) morf more into becoming manual labor rather than a time of opportunity to build muscle mass and strength in a shorter, but intense, workout period. This is all in regard to pure BB'ing, where max results are to be gained from every workout. I think that is what most folks who come here want. Also want to avoid just putting in just "Gym Time" rather than getting the most benefit from serious workouts.
Olympic lifters, like PL'ers, have to be economical with workout time. Form, flexibility and exercise performance are combined with adjusting to the progressive tonnage (main goal) lifted in any training session. Strength/power, with the handling of near max weight will require much more rest between sets and exercises than BB'ing will. So that 2+ hour gage is very misleading. Comparing apples and oranges .
Getting a fast paced workout is not always linked with HIT, HIIT, IT, etc. I do not favor HIT over anything else, it is just another tool to be tried. I like Power Rack work more than anything else, with partials (3 phase at times...insure muscle balance). Preferring overhead lifts rather than flat benches or power cleans over BB rows any time. Just makes more sense to me. I even use high rep (20 reps) at times for Power Rack (squats, DL's, SLDL's, Cleans, etc) and regular Rest/Pause training. Nothing take me over a good 45-50 minutes of actually training time per session. Am not a true BB'er in any sense of the word. But do love lifting heavy. Something like power BB'ing ,which most of my training Bud's are into.
Guess the bottom line is, if a lot of guy's would up their training pace, the workouts could be more productive in the long run. That along with briefer and to the point training . The TUT thing does seem to have value for quite a few successful BB'ers. Though may not be everyone's cup of tea. Good Luck.
Side Bar: Webcke makes some good points.
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I agree with many others. Over Training isn't usually the problem its lack of sleep and diet that is the biggest cause of not making gains. There are tons of kids that goto the gym and bust their ass on weights, but they stay up too late, only getting 6 hours of sleep. They skip breakfast, and only have two large meals / day. Sleep helps alot, but the biggest things most forget is to get big you need to be contantly eating. When you sit down and eat a huge meal, only the first 30 or 40 grams of protein are utilized, The rest goes to the toilet. That is why its important to eat 6+ times a day, ensuring you get 30+ grams or protein / meal. This keeps your system saturated with the right stuff to grow.
The only kind of over training that you should watch out for is anything that can cause damage to your joints and tendons ( running, swimming ext ). Its important to know what your body is capable of. Don't let some trainer push you farther than your body is designed to handle. Lactate is one thing. shoulder and join pain is another.
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When you sit down and eat a huge meal, only the first 30 or 40 grams of protein are utilized, The rest goes to the toilet.
this is false. ;)
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my opion after more than 27 years training with weights
underfeeding is the No. 1 reason for not making good progress
undersleeping and training to rest ratio is No. 2.....
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I agree with many others. Over Training isn't usually the problem its lack of sleep and diet that is the biggest cause of not making gains. There are tons of kids that goto the gym and bust their ass on weights, but they stay up too late, only getting 6 hours of sleep. They skip breakfast, and only have two large meals / day. Sleep helps alot, but the biggest things most forget is to get big you need to be contantly eating. When you sit down and eat a huge meal, only the first 30 or 40 grams of protein are utilized, The rest goes to the toilet. That is why its important to eat 6+ times a day, ensuring you get 30+ grams or protein / meal. This keeps your system saturated with the right stuff to grow.
The only kind of over training that you should watch out for is anything that can cause damage to your joints and tendons ( running, swimming ext ). Its important to know what your body is capable of. Don't let some trainer push you farther than your body is designed to handle. Lactate is one thing. shoulder and join pain is another.
absolute BS. if you want a detailed explanation let me know.
dont agree with the rest of your post either.
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I agree with many others. Over Training isn't usually the problem its lack of sleep and diet that is the biggest cause of not making gains. There are tons of kids that goto the gym and bust their ass on weights, but they stay up too late, only getting 6 hours of sleep. They skip breakfast, and only have two large meals / day. Sleep helps alot, but the biggest things most forget is to get big you need to be contantly eating. When you sit down and eat a huge meal, only the first 30 or 40 grams of protein are utilized, The rest goes to the toilet. That is why its important to eat 6+ times a day, ensuring you get 30+ grams or protein / meal. This keeps your system saturated with the right stuff to grow.
The only kind of over training that you should watch out for is anything that can cause damage to your joints and tendons ( running, swimming ext ). Its important to know what your body is capable of. Don't let some trainer push you farther than your body is designed to handle. Lactate is one thing. shoulder and join pain is another.
Firstly, as already stated by others, your first statement is incorrect.
Secondly, swimming will damage your joints?! First time ive ever heard that...
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Firstly, as already stated by others, your first statement is incorrect.
Secondly, swimming will damage your joints?! First time ive ever heard that...
swimming is actually very mild on the joints.
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swimming is actually very mild on the joints.
I know, i actually think it should be done by many more weight trainers. Ive swam my whole life, and would like to think it has helped in keeping my shoulders pain free and still fairly flexible.
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swimming is actually very mild on the joints.
Yep and it burns a ton of calories when you swim at a good pace.
It's also excellent for your cardiovascular system.
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Yep and it burns a ton of calories when you swim at a good pace.
It's also excellent for your cardiovascular system.
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sometimes, if i ever do hiit cardio, what ill do is do a 50 free, then do a 50 greastroke at a slow pace, then repeat maybe 20 times... (of course i sprint the 50 free)
OR
if i want to do normal cardio in the pool i will just do breast stroke, or i will get on my surf board in the pool and just paddle and kick back and farth (olympic size pool in back yard)
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sometimes, if i ever do hiit cardio, what ill do is do a 50 free, then do a 50 greastroke at a slow pace, then repeat maybe 20 times... (of course i sprint the 50 free)
I've always responded well to HIIT cardio.
I do a full medley and then tread water while i catch my breath for a few minutes and repeat...it's tougher than it sounds.
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i dont agree with overtraining being the biggest reason people arent making progress in the gym, neither is nutrition, altho its very common to read in various articles. personally i think its mainly due to a mix of the following:
(1): people dont focus enough on getting stronger in the basic exercises
(2): people simply arent working hard enough.
(4): no plan
they dont log the weight they use, and next week dont really try to beat the previous weights.
(6) not being consistant enough (this could be included in points 1-4)
;) I think you hit the nail on the head.
overtraining is a worry for those the guys you see in the gym religiously, the guys that never miss a workout and are busting their butts. Overtraining is not a concern for the other 99% of the people in the gym. They might overtrain when they commit to training and hit the gym real hard for 2 weeks, but then they fall back to their on again off again routine of bicep curls, treadmill, and ab crunches with post workout creatine/protein shake.
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I've always responded well to HIIT cardio.
I do a full medley and then tread water while i catch my breath for a few minutes and repeat...it's tougher than it sounds.
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a meddely is like the IM righ ? butter-back-breast-free?
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a meddely is like the IM righ ? butter-back-breast-free?
Exactly.
I was a swimmer MANY years ago...
i probably shouldn't have said that on here... :-\
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Exactly.
I was a swimmer MANY years ago...
i probably shouldn't have said that on here... :-\
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lol
i swam from age 4 to age 14..then i taught swimming lessons abotu three summers ago..
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Swimming is not the safe sport many of your think it is. I have known too many swimmers that have to get shoulder sugery from screwing up their joints. Also most of you don't swim like a competitive swimmer. In high school I was swimming 12,000 - 15,000 meters every day. An Example set would be 20 x 100 freestyle on the 1:15. Unless you are doing these kinds of workouts you don't know the meaning of over training ( with swimming ). Most of you wouldn't last 60 seconds in the pool doing what we had to do for 3-4 hours daily.
Also unless you are taking additional Enzymes, your body does not absorb the additional protein. 30-40 grams is all a natural body can absorb per sitting.
I wouldn't recommend swimming as a way to burn calories. Its great for fitness, but not for fat burning. If you want to burn calories get on a stair machine. You don't see BBers in Competitive Swimming for the same reason you don't see them winning the NYC marathon.
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Also unless you are taking additional Enzymes, your body does not absorb the additional protein. 30-40 grams is all a natural body can absorb per sitting.
incorrect. :)
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Swimming is not the safe sport many of your think it is. I have known too many swimmers that have to get shoulder sugery from screwing up their joints. Also most of you don't swim like a competitive swimmer. In high school I was swimming 12,000 - 15,000 meters every day. An Example set would be 20 x 100 freestyle on the 1:15. Unless you are doing these kinds of workouts you don't know the meaning of over training ( with swimming ). Most of you wouldn't last 60 seconds in the pool doing what we had to do for 3-4 hours daily.
Also unless you are taking additional Enzymes, your body does not absorb the additional protein. 30-40 grams is all a natural body can absorb per sitting.
I wouldn't recommend swimming as a way to burn calories. Its great for fitness, but not for fat burning. If you want to burn calories get on a stair machine. You don't see BBers in Competitive Swimming for the same reason you don't see them winning the NYC marathon.
your talking out of your ass. basically everything you write is incorrect. related to candizzle?
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your talking out of your ass. basically everything you write is incorrect. related to candizzle?
stop.
besides the fact i already have corrected him on this twice; theres no reason to bring your unbased attacks and hate to any board other than the G&O.
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Swimming is not the safe sport many of your think it is. I have known too many swimmers that have to get shoulder sugery from screwing up their joints. Also most of you don't swim like a competitive swimmer. In high school I was swimming 12,000 - 15,000 meters every day. An Example set would be 20 x 100 freestyle on the 1:15. Unless you are doing these kinds of workouts you don't know the meaning of over training ( with swimming ). Most of you wouldn't last 60 seconds in the pool doing what we had to do for 3-4 hours daily.
Also unless you are taking additional Enzymes, your body does not absorb the additional protein. 30-40 grams is all a natural body can absorb per sitting.
I wouldn't recommend swimming as a way to burn calories. Its great for fitness, but not for fat burning. If you want to burn calories get on a stair machine. You don't see BBers in Competitive Swimming for the same reason you don't see them winning the NYC marathon.
Anything is bad for your joints if you overuse the shit out of them...
Great for fitness, not for fat burning?
Are you serious?
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Also unless you are taking additional Enzymes, your body does not absorb the additional protein. 30-40 grams is all a natural body can absorb per sitting.
I wouldn't recommend swimming as a way to burn calories. Its great for fitness, but not for fat burning. If you want to burn calories get on a stair machine. You don't see BBers in Competitive Swimming for the same reason you don't see them winning the NYC marathon.
The body can absorb 98% of the protein you ingest whether it's 20 grams or 100 grams. The issue is what percentage of that will the body use to create muscle? If you sit on your ass watching TV while drinking protein shakes the protein will be digested and converted to fat. If you are lifting weights hard a greater percentage will be used for muscle synthesis.
Swimming is an excellent way to burn calories. It is low impact and can be done at a variety of different intensities. There is a huge difference between the intensities of competitive training versus calorie burning intensity.
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I swam for over 16 years competitively, and I am telling you from personal experience that its not good for getting cut. Trust me, I tried!! Maintaining an optimal HR for fat burning while swimming is not easy. Most of you would swim a 50 and be out of breath with a HR of 180. If you want to burn fat staying consistent for a long period of time is the goal. Stopping at the wall is not consistent. Most of you aren't in the kind of shape do swim a few thousands meters continuously without stopping. The human body wasn't made to swim, it was made to walk and run. You are better off on a treadmill or stairmill where you can monitor you HR.
If you want to get in shape from a fitness perspective swimming is great. But I warn you, swimming is not the kind of activity you want to do if plan on keeping your muscle.
Bash me all you want, but I am talking from personal experience.
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I swam for over 16 years competitively, and I am telling you from personal experience that its not good for getting cut. Trust me, I tried!! Maintaining an optimal HR for fat burning while swimming is not easy. Most of you would swim a 50 and be out of breath with a HR of 180. If you want to burn fat staying consistent for a long period of time is the goal. Stopping at the wall is not consistent. Most of you aren't in the kind of shape do swim a few thousands meters continuously without stopping. The human body wasn't made to swim, it was made to walk and run. You are better off on a treadmill or stairmill where you can monitor you HR.
If you want to get in shape from a fitness perspective swimming is great. But I warn you, swimming is not the kind of activity you want to do if plan on keeping your muscle.
Bash me all you want, but I am talking from personal experience.
are you talking from personal experience regarding protein absorption too? ;D
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On the protein absorbtion, no, this is just from things I have read, and been told. The swimming thing is from personal experience
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a lot of people say that, but it's entirely possible to train to the point that you simply cannot recuperate and maintain any kind of workout frequency.
"Under feeding" = bullshit.
Overtraining occurs when your own body can't clean its own wastes cause by training itself. Overtrained individuals show high liver enzymes levels and even reduced kidney functions. That's the metabolic side of things.
There is also the nervous system overworked side of things......
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"Under feeding" = bullshit.
Overtraining occurs when your own body can't clean its own wastes cause by training itself. Overtrained individuals show high liver enzymes levels and even reduced kidney functions. That's the metabolic side of things.
There is also the nervous system overworked side of things......
training requires calories to recover from and progress. without enough calories, you simply cannot recover and improve. i'd like to know how anyone could POSSIBLY refute this. if underfeeding did not exist, we could all take a lot of supplements, not eat, and get gigantic while dropping every ounce of fat.
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I swam for over 16 years competitively, and I am telling you from personal experience that its not good for getting cut. Trust me, I tried!! Maintaining an optimal HR for fat burning while swimming is not easy. Most of you would swim a 50 and be out of breath with a HR of 180. If you want to burn fat staying consistent for a long period of time is the goal. Stopping at the wall is not consistent. Most of you aren't in the kind of shape do swim a few thousands meters continuously without stopping. The human body wasn't made to swim, it was made to walk and run. You are better off on a treadmill or stairmill where you can monitor you HR.
If you want to get in shape from a fitness perspective swimming is great. But I warn you, swimming is not the kind of activity you want to do if plan on keeping your muscle.
Bash me all you want, but I am talking from personal experience.
"Research has shown swimming to be an even worse way to shed fat; in fact, a regular swimming program has actually caused some subjects to gain weight. This is because exercise in the water is not associated with as dramatic a rise in body temperature as seen during land exercise. Elevations in body heat during physical exertion stimulate an important increase in metabolism within the muscles, enabling them to burn more calories. Heat is conducted away from the body 24 times faster in the water than on land, enabling vigorous exercise without the normal increase in temperature. Additionally, after a strenuous workout on land, body temperature may stay elevated up to six hours post-exercise, causing a significant “afterburn” of calories that does not occur after swimming. Thus, less calories are burned during swimming and less of an “afterburn” occurs following exercise."
http://www.sportsguidemag.com/archive/Jun03/TrainFit-controlfat.asp (http://www.sportsguidemag.com/archive/Jun03/TrainFit-controlfat.asp)
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everything i've read on swimming said it's great CARDIO, but bad FAT LOSS, if that makes sense. your lungs and heart will be in amazing shape, but for whatever reason you don't lose weight.
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maybe thats what the textbooks say btu i suggest you swim 20 laps or more per day at a good pace and tell me what you look like in one month.
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maybe thats what the textbooks say btu i suggest you swim 20 laps or more per day at a good pace and tell me what you look like in one month.
a regular swimming program has actually caused some subjects to gain weight.
pay attention. already tested anecdotally.
funny thing is, you're always the first one to say "if you can't back it up by science your opinion is worthless" even if you've got decades of anecdotal evidence, but now that science disagrees with you you're saying the science doesn't matter, try it out. ::)
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i dont ever say that. you just entirely made that up.
anyways; try it. or just go down to the public pool when theyhave swim praqctice for the college kids or whatever...take a look at the bodies on the competitive swimmers. and/or go down to a water polo practice and look at those dudes.
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training requires calories to recover from and progress. without enough calories, you simply cannot recover and improve. i'd like to know how anyone could POSSIBLY refute this. if underfeeding did not exist, we could all take a lot of supplements, not eat, and get gigantic while dropping every ounce of fat.
Eating more and more = will not prevent "overtraining".
Do heavy leg day and go get your blood checked the day after. Your enzymes and creatinine levels will be very elevated to the point of being asked if you have done anything special lately.
Do that over and over, a couple of weeks straight with no breaks and your organs will quickly get overwhelmed. Your body will react by raising cortisol dramatically and going catabolic.
You body != a machine.
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"Research has shown swimming to be an even worse way to shed fat; in fact, a regular swimming program has actually caused some subjects to gain weight. This is because exercise in the water is not associated with as dramatic a rise in body temperature as seen during land exercise. Elevations in body heat during physical exertion stimulate an important increase in metabolism within the muscles, enabling them to burn more calories. Heat is conducted away from the body 24 times faster in the water than on land, enabling vigorous exercise without the normal increase in temperature. Additionally, after a strenuous workout on land, body temperature may stay elevated up to six hours post-exercise, causing a significant “afterburn” of calories that does not occur after swimming. Thus, less calories are burned during swimming and less of an “afterburn” occurs following exercise."
http://www.sportsguidemag.com/archive/Jun03/TrainFit-controlfat.asp (http://www.sportsguidemag.com/archive/Jun03/TrainFit-controlfat.asp)
It's great that you actually took the time to back up your point with an article ;) The problem is that the author is a douche that does not give a source of his stated study, nor does he give any context to his comments. What was the intensity, how many days per week did they swim, how long did they swim, what were their fat/fitness levels when starting the study, how long did the study last for? Imho his study is bullshit. A person's core temperature rises with swimming unless you're swimming in Lake Superior in February. It's like saying that if I go running with my shirt off when it's 55 degrees my core temperature won't increase.
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It doesn't matter if you are swimming or running. Its the temperature of your surrounding enviroment that determines how well your body can remove the access heat. Its alot easier to swim in a pool that is 78 degrees than a pool that is 85 degrees. After a few minutes swimming in an 85 degree pool will feel like you are swimming in a hot tub. The warm water sucks the energy out of you. 78 degrees ( the temp of most pools ) is not cold enough after a few minutes.
Also I can tell you from personal experience that my body's temp stays elevated long after I get out of the pool. The fact remains that swimming is not the most efficient way to burn caloires. Your biggest muscles in your legs, are simply dragged behind you when you swim, and starts and flip turns are not significant in burning calories
To prove my point once and for all. Which burns more calories? Lat Pull downs for an hour ( swimming ), or Squats for an hour( running ). Just because its painful or uncomfortable, doesn't mean you are burning alot of calories, it just means your body is not built to efficiently do the activity at hand.
If you want to burn the maximum calories stick to the stair machine.
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Eating more and more = will not prevent "overtraining".
Do heavy leg day and go get your blood checked the day after. Your enzymes and creatinine levels will be very elevated to the point of being asked if you have done anything special lately.
Do that over and over, a couple of weeks straight with no breaks and your organs will quickly get overwhelmed. Your body will react by raising cortisol dramatically and going catabolic.
You body != a machine.
dude, are you for real? you're actually negating that you can underfeed your body.
okay, i have an idea. YOU do heavy leg day and then don't eat anything the rest of the day. repeat, having normal calories in the morning and absolutely nothing after noon. do this for a few weeks and tell me if "underfeeding" is still a myth.
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sounds like a solid routine my man.
pretty much what i do personally; except im instinctual and soemtimes iw ill just go super heavy for one or two sets, while soemtimes i will go lighter weight for 5-6 sets... just whatever my body feels like it needs that day.
Now I know why I don't post here much. Too many know-it-alls who know bugger all. Experts are everywhere. What a total waste of time to read this forum.
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Now I know why I don't post here much. Too many know-it-alls who know bugger all. Experts are everywhere. What a total waste of time to read this forum.
you refering to my post ? i would hope you mistakingly quoted me, mr "two dianabol per day" stupid fucking dipshit old man
go back to your rootbeer and flabby stomach and old fat women; gay mother fucker
oh yeah, maybe their is somebody's funeral you can go barge in on who you dont even know just so you can take some pictures of some famous person ::)
real respectable guy you are, huh champ??
go shoot yourself you old fucking moron
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Candidizzle you clearly are intellectually challenged. There is no instinct to lift weights. When intelligent people have something heavy to shift they get their mates, a lever, or lifting device to get the job done.
Clearly you are devoid of anything approaching knowledge in hypertrophy so come to the internet to ask questions. That many do as you do make you seem earnest but you really should get into the gym and not hang around the internet all day making a fool of yourself.
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Candidizzle you clearly are intellectually challenged. There is no instinct to lift weights. When intelligent people have something heavy to shift they get their mates, a lever, or lifting device to get the job done.
Clearly you are devoid of anything approaching knowledge in hypertrophy so come to the internet to ask questions. That many do as you do make you seem earnest but you really should get into the gym and not hang around the internet all day making a fool of yourself.
vince post all your golden wisdom on how to propperly stimulate muscle growth !!!!!
ahhaha !!!
vince you are an old fool and you need to keep your mouth shut, because you dont know jackshit !
come on vince, lets have a little discussion about "knowledhe in hypertrophy" as you put it... we will sort it out who really knows what and who is the pretender
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What a joke that Candid is going to be the test of truth of what I know. Give me a break. I don't respect most of the moderators here, either. This forum is virtually worthless. Dudes like Candid contaminate anything that could be of value. He wouldn't recognize the true theory of hypertrophy if he read it! Why? Simply because he has no real knowledge himself. He is just another dude with typically misinformed beliefs.
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What a joke that Candid is going to be the test of truth of what I know. Give me a break. I don't respect most of the moderators here, either. This forum is virtually worthless. Dudes like Candid contaminate anything that could be of value. He wouldn't recognize the true theory of hypertrophy if he read it? Why? Simply because he has no real knowledge himself. He is just another dude with typically misinformed beliefs.
then prove what your saying, you stupid old fuck
you have NEVER EVER once posted ANY information on the subject of hypertophy.. you have only used the word, and accused others of being ignorant about it.
i can only assume that you have no clue
prove that you know the slightest amount on the subject and i apologize for insulting you
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dude, are you for real? you're actually negating that you can underfeed your body.
okay, i have an idea. YOU do heavy leg day and then don't eat anything the rest of the day. repeat, having normal calories in the morning and absolutely nothing after noon. do this for a few weeks and tell me if "underfeeding" is still a myth.
Does "food" prevents metabolic wastes? I didn't thing so....
Stay in school ::)
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Does "food" prevents metabolic wastes? I didn't thing so....
Stay in school ::)
you need to whip through your "english as a second language" courses again, buckaroo.
or, to be less of a grammar nazi, the fact that your claiming that caloric intake has no effect on recovery is so patently stupid i have no recourse but to say you're just trolling.
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you need to whip through your "english as a second language" courses again, buckaroo.
or, to be less of a grammar nazi, the fact that your claiming that caloric intake has no effect on recovery is so patently stupid i have no recourse but to say you're just trolling.
"ok" tatooed "bear fan" with a "shiny" futur...
Now go finish that novel ::)
hahaha what an underachiever we've got here...
Bodybuilding "Knowlegde" = compensating for not having top of the world genetics.
Spellcheck.