Hives

[Lord Humungous]

The last 2 or 3 days Oscar has been getting large hives on his face. They almost look like bee stings but he hasnt been stung. I havent changed anything in the house and when hes in the back yard I watch him so he doesnt get into anything. He was chewing on leg the other day and I think I might have saw a flea so I gave him front line which he only had one other time as a pup. last night I was pissed they showed up again and I gave him a bath to wash as much as I could off. Benadryl seems to clear it up in about an hour but when it wears off they come back. Any thoughts anyone?

[Vet]

The last 2 or 3 days Oscar has been getting large hives on his face. They almost look like bee stings but he hasnt been stung. I havent changed anything in the house and when hes in the back yard I watch him so he doesnt get into anything. He was chewing on leg the other day and I think I might have saw a flea so I gave him front line which he only had one other time as a pup. last night I was pissed they showed up again and I gave him a bath to wash as much as I could off. Benadryl seems to clear it up in about an hour but when it wears off they come back. Any thoughts anyone?

It really sounds like your dog is having an allergic reaction to something.... Dogs are much like people in that they can have an allergic reaction to just about anything and these reactions often manifest themselves as hives or localized dermatopathies.  Sometimes determining whats causing the problem is easier said than done.  I'm saying this particularly because of the seeming positive response from giving benadryl.  The antihistamine action of benadryl makes me think allergy.  Dogs will get hives just like humans---sometimes localized to the face, other times all over their body. 

You need to take him into a veterinarian and possibly get him on something stronger than diphenhydramine (or a more appropriate dose, one 25 mg capsule is not enough for a 50 lb dog).   Benadryl is a decent antihistamine for some reactions, but there are other drugs that might work better depending on what is causing the allergic reaction.   I WOULD NOT put him on steroids unless the symptoms were severe and then I'd probably use a low, taper dose.  Corticosteroids will mask the allergic reaction, but it won't solve the allergy problem and the side effects of steroids outweigh the positive benefits if its a simple allergic reaction.  Then again, if its severe, steroids may be more appropriate (this doesn't sound severe). 

[knny187]

Vet is right

My dog I had when I was a kid....became allergic to plastic when she turned about 1 1/2.

It was weird because previous to that...she was ok.  Then all of a sudden "bam"...she was getting these hives & blisters all over her nose.  We got rid of her plastic bowl & some plastic toys & instantly...it stopped.  I think it was the first thing our vet recommended because he did not prefer feeding in plastic (metal or ceramic only).

It was her problem & never came back again.

[Lord Humungous]

It really sounds like your dog is having an allergic reaction to something.... Dogs are much like people in that they can have an allergic reaction to just about anything and these reactions often manifest themselves as hives or localized dermatopathies.  Sometimes determining whats causing the problem is easier said than done.  I'm saying this particularly because of the seeming positive response from giving benadryl.  The antihistamine action of benadryl makes me think allergy.  Dogs will get hives just like humans---sometimes localized to the face, other times all over their body. 

You need to take him into a veterinarian and possibly get him on something stronger than diphenhydramine (or a more appropriate dose, one 25 mg capsule is not enough for a 50 lb dog).   Benadryl is a decent antihistamine for some reactions, but there are other drugs that might work better depending on what is causing the allergic reaction.   I WOULD NOT put him on steroids unless the symptoms were severe and then I'd probably use a low, taper dose.  Corticosteroids will mask the allergic reaction, but it won't solve the allergy problem and the side effects of steroids outweigh the positive benefits if its a simple allergic reaction.  Then again, if its severe, steroids may be more appropriate (this doesn't sound severe). 

Thanks for the info Vet. Oscar has a list of allergys a mile long, we had him tested when he was a pup. To be honest I dont think they hold a ton of weight since I eliminated as many as I could with the exception of the environmental ones like dust mites and pollen it it really didnt seem to make a difference what so ever. With Flowers encourage ment and help I did switch him to an all raw diet which has helped some but not totally. My vet started him on a dose of Temaril P #42 which helped- I lowered it after the first high dose to 1 tab eod and he has been on that for over a year now and I want to get him off of it. When I asked for an antihistamine with out the steroid they gave me hydrozime 50mg  but the way they recommend the dosage on it makes it sound like another steroid to me( 2xdaily for a week and then 1xdaily until its gone). So needless to say I havent given him any of the Hydrozime since I dont really know what it is. Benadryl works well and fairly fast, but like you said vet one 25mg tab is not enough for a stocky hound like oscar. Hes 44lbs so ive been giving him 2  tabs twice daily once in the morning and once in the evening.
I havent given him any this afternoon and the hives are all gone but he was shaking his head a bit this evening. Right now hes fine and asleep at on my bed. Vet- any thoughts on how you would handle not only the hives but also his regular food allergys ( they cause him to scratch his sides and chew his paws and tail) I really dont want him on Tamril P anymore.

Thanks

[Lord Humungous]

bump

[~flower~]

With Flowers encourage ment and help I did switch him to an all raw diet which has helped some but not totally.

Is he still on the pre-ground with some of it with veggies?  If so it will be hard to do an elimination diet that way. Some of the veggies they use in the pre-ground mixes are starchy and those are not good for yeasty skin allergies. 

  You had mentioned to me that you thought some of his allergies may be environment related too?

[Lord Humungous]

Is he still on the pre-ground with some of it with veggies?  If so it will be hard to do an elimination diet that way. Some of the veggies they use in the pre-ground mixes are starchy and those are not good for yeasty skin allergies. 

  You had mentioned to me that you thought some of his allergies may be environment related too?

Ya, out of convenience hes still on pre ground but the pork & veg mix doesnt have anything hes allergic to Flower. At least nothing that showed up on his tests like white potato, and carrots.  He does have a bunch of environmental issues like rye grass, oak, cocklebur, centipede grass, smoke, mites and some shit like that. I would say his allergy's are 40% improved just by switching his diet. Lets be real, the rest I just cant do much about. 

[Vet]

Ya, out of convenience hes still on pre ground but the pork & veg mix doesnt have anything hes allergic to Flower. At least nothing that showed up on his tests like white potato, and carrots.  He does have a bunch of environmental issues like rye grass, oak, cocklebur, centipede grass, smoke, mites and some shit like that. I would say his allergy's are 40% improved just by switching his diet. Lets be real, the rest I just cant do much about. 

Environmental issues would be the first I would think of with a dog with hives. 

Like you thought, Temaril P has prednisolone (corticosteroids) in it:  its not something I'd use long term, although it may be appropriate for short term use with a dog with mild to moderate allergic reaction.   Its one of those "shotgun" type drugs combining a corticosteroid with an antitussive/antipuritic drug.    So if one doesn't make the animal quit itching, the other probably will. 

Use of Hydroxazine is piperazine derived antihistamine---probably one of the first line drugs against canine inhaled allergies (atopy) because it works very well in many dogs.  Its often dosed either twice to three times per day or given on an intiial taper dose for a 3-5 week trial.  With the taper dose, the first 2 weeks are a higher dose (to get the allergies undercontrol) and then the dose decreases (to try to find the minimal dose that is effective) and so on.   With your dog and what you are posting here, I'd really try to see if the hydroxazine works. 

Allergies are, unfortunately, difficult to deal with in dogs that really have them.  You mentioned previous allergy testing---was it intradermal testing or the "blood" tests?  The reason I ask is you can get some seriously goofy results from the "blood" tests (there is tremendous variability in these tests from lab to lab) done in a general practice, but intradermal testing is very, very accurate---primarily because you are injecting allergen into the dogs skin.  It will have a reaction or it won't.   Typically these type of tests are only done by someone with advanced training in dermatology---either a residency trained veterinarian or a board certified dermatologist.    We went through all of this wtih my mother in laws lab/shepard several years ago.  That dog came back as being allergic to a variety of grasses, cats, and dust.   Obfiously my mother in law wasn't getting rid of her cats for the dog.  Once she went through desensitization therapy, she actually was/has been essentially cured for the last 11 years.  This type of treatment must be done by a specialist, but the results can be very positive in an allergic dog.   Its something to think about.   

[Lord Humungous]

Environmental issues would be the first I would think of with a dog with hives. 

Like you thought, Temaril P has prednisolone (corticosteroids) in it:  its not something I'd use long term, although it may be appropriate for short term use with a dog with mild to moderate allergic reaction.   Its one of those "shotgun" type drugs combining a corticosteroid with an antitussive/antipuritic drug.    So if one doesn't make the animal quit itching, the other probably will. 

Use of Hydroxazine is piperazine derived antihistamine---probably one of the first line drugs against canine inhaled allergies (atopy) because it works very well in many dogs.  Its often dosed either twice to three times per day or given on an intiial taper dose for a 3-5 week trial.  With the taper dose, the first 2 weeks are a higher dose (to get the allergies undercontrol) and then the dose decreases (to try to find the minimal dose that is effective) and so on.   With your dog and what you are posting here, I'd really try to see if the hydroxazine works. 

Allergies are, unfortunately, difficult to deal with in dogs that really have them.  You mentioned previous allergy testing---was it intradermal testing or the "blood" tests?  The reason I ask is you can get some seriously goofy results from the "blood" tests (there is tremendous variability in these tests from lab to lab) done in a general practice, but intradermal testing is very, very accurate---primarily because you are injecting allergen into the dogs skin.  It will have a reaction or it won't.   Typically these type of tests are only done by someone with advanced training in dermatology---either a residency trained veterinarian or a board certified dermatologist.    We went through all of this wtih my mother in laws lab/shepard several years ago.  That dog came back as being allergic to a variety of grasses, cats, and dust.   Obfiously my mother in law wasn't getting rid of her cats for the dog.  Once she went through desensitization therapy, she actually was/has been essentially cured for the last 11 years.  This type of treatment must be done by a specialist, but the results can be very positive in an allergic dog.   Its something to think about.   

[Vet]

??

[Butterbean]

Get well soon Twisted O

[Geo]

The last 2 or 3 days Oscar has been getting large hives on his face. They almost look like bee stings but he hasnt been stung. I havent changed anything in the house and when hes in the back yard I watch him so he doesnt get into anything. He was chewing on leg the other day and I think I might have saw a flea so I gave him front line which he only had one other time as a pup. last night I was pissed they showed up again and I gave him a bath to wash as much as I could off. Benadryl seems to clear it up in about an hour but when it wears off they come back. Any thoughts anyone?

some dogs are allergic to corn so if you're giving O'dogg popcorn you should stop because some dogs are allergic to corn

[Lord Humungous]

Sorry Vet! Tight-ass Ron's server shit the bed when I hit the send button.

To recap what I wrote before.

Oscar had the blood test to check for all his allergens, and the majority were ingestables but there were still 7 or 8 envronmental issues to speak, molds grasses, mites etc. The doc gave us a round of shots but I chose not to go with them for a few reasons 1 i wanted to clean up his diet and see what happen - it helped a bunch but not totally, 2 Im on the road a lot for work and my wife isnt comfortable giving him the injections, 3 i read some info about cancerous tumors starting from repeated injections in the same area.

Do you think the Hydroxazine is a viable long term solution if it works? Right now I give him 1-2 Benadryl if his scratching is really bad. Diet alone eliminated the bald spots on his hind legs and belly. I can tell when its really bothering him because he breaks off his whiskers when he scratches his face a lot. I really think the hives were a result of the Frontline.

Any thoughts

some dogs are allergic to corn so if you're giving O'dogg popcorn you should stop because some dogs are allergic to corn

Geo, thanks for your insite, Odog loves popcorn but I usally dont eat that much since its kinda low calorie. When possible I eat greasy french frys dipped in cheese sauce to keep my weight around 600lbs.

[Lord Humungous]

Final bump

[Vet]

Final bump

Sorry, I've been hammered with work the last couple of days----I DELIVERED MY FIRST RHINO CALF THIS WEEK!!!!! 

Anyway, I'll try to answer your questions later this afternoon. 

[~flower~]

Sorry, I've been hammered with work the last couple of days----I DELIVERED MY FIRST RHINO CALF THIS WEEK!!!!! 

Anyway, I'll try to answer your questions later this afternoon. 

  Now THAT would be cool!!    Congrats!!    

[Lord Humungous]

Ahh gees Ive delivered a mess of those! 

[Vet]

Ahh gees Ive delivered a mess of those! 

haha.  Dude, this is the highlight of my career so far.  The little (if you can call 150 lbs little) bugger is CUTE!!. 


As far as your questions go:  I personally don't put as much stock into the blood tests as intradermal testing, but like i posted before, you need a dermatologist to do the intradermal testing and do it correctly.   I'd look at the blood tests as "guidelines" not a be all end all determination of what your dog is allergic too.   The real problem is with blood tests you are not measuring an actual allergic reaction (as you do with the skin tests) you are measuring a concentration of antibody circulating with in the blood and then interpreting it as causing the outward signs.  Obviously there is potential for loss due to misinterpretation or you can have an animal that had an immune response but didn't manifest outward signs. 

You can keep an animal on hydroxazine long term with minimal side effects.   Its the same as a human using long term antihistamines.  The one thing you need to consider is that just like antihistamines in humans, the dose given to a dog to effectively combat allergies may change with time---ie while 1 tablet is enough this year, in 2-3 years you may be giving 1 1/2 tablets.   Becuase of this, if there are times of the year where your dog isn't having allergy issues, consider cycling off the antihistamine.  It'll prevent/slow down, having to increase the dose at a later time. 

As far as frontline goes---its also a very safe drug for topical use on all species of animals EXCEPT domestic rabbits--they have issues with it.  I have never seen a generalized reaction from frontline, but I have seen localized reactions in some species, particularly cats.   Typically its an area of redness, scratching, and maybe hair loss.  They seemed to be self limiting in how they acted.   Frontline is one of those drugs that if you dont' have a flea or tick problem, I personally wouldn't be using it---its just too darned expensive.   If you dog has allergies to fleas, you may want to use it as a preventative, but I'd only do that if you lived in an area with a high likelyhood of flea infestation. 

[Lord Humungous]

Thanks Vet, and Flower!

[Princess L]

Ya, out of convenience hes still on pre ground but the pork & veg mix doesnt have anything hes allergic to Flower. At least nothing that showed up on his tests like white potato, and carrots.  He does have a bunch of environmental issues like rye grass, oak, cocklebur, centipede grass, smoke, mites and some shit like that. I would say his allergy's are 40% improved just by switching his diet. Lets be real, the rest I just cant do much about. 

Poor baby   
Is he miserable like a human with bad allergies?

[Lord Humungous]

Poor baby   
Is he miserable like a human with bad allergies?

Ya he is Princess. When they were really bad he would scratch himself raw on his chest. then stand on his tail and rip the hair out.

[temper35]

rhino calf, that is awesome.