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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Wrestling Board => Topic started by: LurkerNoMore on February 16, 2013, 12:10:20 PM
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Simple thread. List the names of people who had no business lacing up the boots.
Here are my three
Erik Watts
David Flair
Steve McMichael
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Chris Von Erich
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bruce hart
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The McGuire Twins
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Lex Lugar
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Great Khali
Eric Bischoff
Mark Henry
David Sammartino
Dennis Rodman
Karl Malone
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Bruce Hart is an EXCELLENT pick!
I will add:
Jorge Gonzalez
Johnny Valiant
While on the Von Erich's, Kerry's kid, Lacey
Tom Magee
Khali, who I place in the same category as Gonzalez
I know we'll think of many more...
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Terry Bollea
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Jim Justice...sadly enough even Chris Von Erich was a better worker and showed more in ring ability at the debut points of their careers.
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Come on now... Luger had a bit of personality and always made a decent heel. Slow on the mic and not much charisma as a face, but that period of time that he was borderline heel and teaming with Sting was hilarious. Sting tried to keep him on the straight and narrow and as soon as Sting turned around or was distracted by the ref or other wrestler, Luger would clobber one with the belt and cheat his ass off. Then he would be shaking Sting's hand and saying "good match" and as soon as Sting wasn't looking Luger would hold the belt above his head and have a big shit eating grin on his face. I wish I could find some youtube clips of those matches. They were hilarious.
Mark Henry made a monster villian before his injury.
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I know he is a legend but Andre the Giant. He was good at being big and that's it.
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I know he is a legend but Andre the Giant. He was good at being big and that's it.
Originally Andre was hired for the "attraction" not soo much the wrestling ability. It is probanly the same with Khali, more physical attraction and also to gain the (Indian or whatever nationality he is) population
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I know he is a legend but Andre the Giant. He was good at being big and that's it.
Not to mention he was often drunk in many of his matches.
Andre was a spectacle. Today, it takes more than just size to be special, and that is one reason Khali hasn't taken off.
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I'd say Tom Lister, Jr, also known as.......
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dan severn
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dan severn
Explain.
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Explain.
i realize hes a legit bad ass in mma and amatuer wresting, just found him very boring in the pro ranks
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I know he is a legend but Andre the Giant. He was good at being big and that's it.
That's Andre, the very first WWE Hall of Famer.
Remember that Andre's ailments caught up with him over the years. Vince McMahon had to PLEAD with him to fight Hogan at WrestleMania 3, because of that.
But, that match alone made wrestling history. I've said in the past that, if you put all the other matches on that card in one venue the size of the SilverDome and put the Hogan vs. Andre match alone in another Silverdome, Hogan-Andre would sell out first.
That match was that big, back in the day.
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i realize hes a legit bad ass in mma and amatuer wresting, just found him very boring in the pro ranks
Yeah, a lot of guys had a tough time transitioning from real bad-assery to make-believe fighting. Shamrock surprised me. Some say that Brock got bored, but I think he saw opportunity for less work and more money. Can't blame a guy there.
Severn's ring work was interesting at times. He was also in the right place at the right time, as UFC and Pride fighters were really catching on in the mainstream. But he wasn't that good on the stick, and his character was a little one-dimensional. I can understand why the NWA put the titles on him to add some credibility to and legitimize their product. But, the Fed had some of the greatest mic workers during that time, and against them, Severn couldn't hold his own. I think they used him as best they could.
I've always wondered how Don Frye would have done in pro-wrestling. Some of his YouTube videos are hilarious. I think they could have maybe done a bit with him.
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I've always wondered how Don Frye would have done in pro-wrestling. Some of his YouTube videos are hilarious. I think they could have maybe done a bit with him.
Yeah you might be on to something there...that guy had a ton of natural charisma.
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Come on now... Luger had a bit of personality and always made a decent heel. Slow on the mic and not much charisma as a face, but that period of time that he was borderline heel and teaming with Sting was hilarious. Sting tried to keep him on the straight and narrow and as soon as Sting turned around or was distracted by the ref or other wrestler, Luger would clobber one with the belt and cheat his ass off. Then he would be shaking Sting's hand and saying "good match" and as soon as Sting wasn't looking Luger would hold the belt above his head and have a big shit eating grin on his face. I wish I could find some youtube clips of those matches. They were hilarious.
Luger had a good look and was also a safe and cooperative worker. He stuck to the basics, but he was a good hand in the ring. I remember him stumbling through some promos. ;)
He wasn't the best, and I think it was a mistake the way Vince tried pushing him to be the "next Hulk Hogan." Some of his angles were interesting, as mentioned above. I think much of that depended on who he was working with.
And, on the topic of Sting, didn't those two co-own a couple of gyms around Atlanta?
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Luger had a good look and was also a safe and cooperative worker. He stuck to the basics, but he was a good hand in the ring. I remember him stumbling through some promos. ;)
He wasn't the best, and I think it was a mistake the way Vince tried pushing him to be the "next Hulk Hogan." Some of his angles were interesting, as mentioned above. I think much of that depended on who he was working with.
And, on the topic of Sting, didn't those two co-own a couple of gyms around Atlanta?
Hmmmm...how much truth is there to the rumor that a druken Luger spilled the beans that he was to win the WWF title at WrestleMania 10? That such was overheard by a reporter and, in a last minute scramble, WWF changed the finish to let Bret Hart win the title from Yokozuna?
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Hmmmm...how much truth is there to the rumor that a druken Luger spilled the beans that he was to win the WWF title at WrestleMania 10? That such was overheard by a reporter and, in a last minute scramble, WWF changed the finish to let Bret Hart win the title from Yokozuna?
That I honestly can't answer. In fact, this is the first I've heard of it.
I never worked or even spoke with anyone with ties to Luger. About the only insider scoop I have regarding him is from shoot interviews and books. Those are sketchy at best, but I've heard from more than a few different sources that Lex was originally slated to head the nWo in what ultimately became Hogan's spot.
Bischoff brought back the nWo idea from Japan, where another promotion was doing something similar. Bret was going to head up the faction with Hall & Nash, but decided to stay put in the Fed. So, the next choice was Luger. Hogan caught wind of the idea and used his pull to nab the spot to boost his then lukewarm career.
As for WM X, I can easily believe the old man wanted to put the strap on Lex. The way they were pushing him, it was the only thing left to do. If Luger was dumb enough to leak the spoiler, then it's very possible that the double main-event was a swerve, which Vince was known for doing under such circumstances.
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That I honestly can't answer. In fact, this is the first I've heard of it.
I never worked or even spoke with anyone with ties to Luger. About the only insider scoop I have regarding him is from shoot interviews and books. Those are sketchy at best, but I've heard from more than a few different sources that Lex was originally slated to head the nWo in what ultimately became Hogan's spot.
Bischoff brought back the nWo idea from Japan, where another promotion was doing something similar. Bret was going to head up the faction with Hall & Nash, but decided to stay put in the Fed. So, the next choice was Luger. Hogan caught wind of the idea and used his pull to nab the spot to boost his then lukewarm career.
LUGER? Nash said on "WWE Legends", on a feature about the NWO, that the choices for the 3rd man to join him and Hall were either Sting or Hogan. Sting refused to do it; Hogan did initially but changed his mind later. As Nash put it, "Thank God that Hogan has the business savvy to watch that money train leave and go, 'It's not moving that fast. I can still jump on it'."
If it's still on YouTube, you should check it out. Nash said that his whole foray back to WCW started, thanks to Hall. To him, the "stars were lined up perfectly" for WCW. "What are the odds of Diesel and Razor Ramon being up 5 days after each other?"
Hall wanted Nash to jump, because he knew Big D would be offered more money, being a former WWF champion (and having that belt for a year). Thanks to his "favored nations" deal, whatever WCW gave Nash, it had to match with Hall. And Hall was getting way more than what was known in WCW as "Sting Money" ($750,000/year, according to Big Daddy Cool).
To steal from one of the ribs on WCW, Billionaire Ted was actually getting some of those WWF New Generation superstars, two of the biggest ones actually.
As for WM X, I can easily believe the old man wanted to put the strap on Lex. The way they were pushing him, it was the only thing left to do. If Luger was dumb enough to leak the spoiler, then it's very possible that the double main-event was a swerve, which Vince was known for doing under such circumstances.
I've always stated that, had Hogan not returned, Bret Hart wouldn't have lost to Yokozuna at WM 9. I think the plan was to have Yoko beat Bret for the title at another 1993 PPV and have Luger win it at WrestleMania 10. Bret claims that Hogan didn't want to put him over, which is why he dropped the belt back to Yoko. If that's the case, that might have somewhat gummed up the works for Luger. Bret Hart may have felt he had to beat Yoko to legtimize himself as champion, sincce Hogan didn't job for him.
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A lot of times, I think we only hear parts to the stories. Often, which parts depends on who's telling them. If you collect the pieces from enough people, you can usually get a good idea of what happened.
Hall & Nash supposedly waived their favored nations clause when Bret did eventually join WCW, granting him his $2.6 million per year deal. They probably knew/thought it would help them in the long run by attracting more business. Too bad WCW had no idea what to do with Bret.
The only reason for Bret to job to Yoko was, in fact, a middle step to get the belt back on Hogan, who was pimping his latest movie or series. The move was done with the understanding that Terry would reciprocate the job to Bret at a later date, but Hulk reneged before leaving for Turner paradise.
I honestly believe that gave Bret a red ass, which I suspect he has to this day.
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A lot of times, I think we only hear parts to the stories. Often, which parts depends on who's telling them. If you collect the pieces from enough people, you can usually get a good idea of what happened.
Hall & Nash supposedly waived their favored nations clause when Bret did eventually join WCW, granting him his $2.6 million per year deal. They probably knew/thought it would help them in the long run by attracting more business. Too bad WCW had no idea what to do with Bret.
You make a good point. But, as was your case with hearing about Luger and WrestleMania 10 from me, this is the first time I've ever heard that Luger was in the running for the 3rd man of the NWO.
Here's a small clip of Nash's remarks:
I thought Bret got an even $3 million per year to join WCW. Maybe it was a rounding thing. ;D. But, considering that both Hall and Nash were getting about half of that, why would they waive their "favored nations" clause? If Bret gets that, so would they, no??
BTW, whose DUMB idea was it to give that clause to "The Bad Guy", anyway? I could see doing that with Bret Hart, Hogan, even Big D......but RAZOR (especially given his suspension, before he left WWF)???
The only reason for Bret to job to Yoko was, in fact, a middle step to get the belt back on Hogan, who was pimping his latest movie or series. The move was done with the understanding that Terry would reciprocate the job to Bret at a later date, but Hulk reneged before leaving for Turner paradise.
I honestly believe that gave Bret a red ass, which I suspect he has to this day.
I heard Hogan was supposed to job to Hart at SummerSlam that year.
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According to Bret, WCW's original deal (the one he turned down) was for 3 mil. After the Survivor Series, he asked Eric for the same deal, but was told that 2.6 was the best they could do. They actually offered him less than that before the agreement was reached.
Bret still got the other frills of the original offer. It was a sweet deal no matter how you look at it.
It sounded like Hall & Nash waived their clause simply as a way to contribute to bringing Bret on board. If Turner payroll had to match their salaries with Bret's, they may have been less likely to meet Bret's offer.
Everyone wanted to see Bret join WCW. It had so much potential, especially considering what had happened in the Fed just a few months earlier.
Instead, WCW demonstrated just one more reason they went out of business.
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According to Bret, WCW's original deal (the one he turned down) was for 3 mil. After the Survivor Series, he asked Eric for the same deal, but was told that 2.6 was the best they could do. They actually offered him less than that before the agreement was reached.
Bret still got the other frills of the original offer. It was a sweet deal no matter how you look at it.
It sounded like Hall & Nash waived their clause simply as a way to contribute to bringing Bret on board. If Turner payroll had to match their salaries with Bret's, they may have been less likely to meet Bret's offer.
Everyone wanted to see Bret join WCW. It had so much potential, especially considering what had happened in the Fed just a few months earlier.
Instead, WCW demonstrated just one more reason they went out of business.
Then, Hall must have REALLY been smoking crack (and gave some to Nash). My train of thought would be that WCW isn't going to pass up a golden opportunity to get Bret Hart and conceivably put the final nail in the WWF's coffin.
Ergo, Bret Hart was going to get broken off, BIG TIME. And, as long as I have a "favored nations" clause, so will I.
Now that I remember, Nash said a guy, named Barry Bloom from WCW, gave Hall that clause in his contract Apparently, he was on that stuff, as well. There is NO WAY I would have given that to Razor. Heck, I don't even think Big D was worth that.
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Now that I remember, Nash said a guy, named Barry Bloom from WCW, gave Hall that clause in his contract Apparently, he was on that stuff, as well. There is NO WAY I would have given that to Razor. Heck, I don't even think Big D was worth that.
Bloom probably negotiated that contract for Hall.
Barry Bloom wound up representing A LOT of wrestlers around that time. At some point, he's been an agent for Piper, Jericho, Foley, Hall, Nash, Hunter, Waltman, Goldberg, Ventura, Shamrock, and others. Vince never liked the idea of his guys having managers and agents for much the same reason he never allowed them to unionize.
I believe that Jesse was among the first (maybe THE first) pro-wrestler to acquire an agent. In fact, while calling the Piper/Adonis match with Monsoon at WM III, Jesse even alluded to his "new tag-team" of Braverman and Bloom out in LA. Michael Braverman is partners with Bloom, and also serves as Jesse's manager.
Is unlikely that most most viewers knew either of the two men, and Ventura probably mentioned their names more as a dig at Vince with whom Jesse was having some contractual issues. It was a subtle way for Jesse to tell the old man, "I don't need you or wrestling because I've got bigger fish waiting." It was during this time that Jesse landed a guest spot on the series Hunter, and signed to begin filming Predator, which really gave Vince the red ass.
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Bloom probably negotiated that contract for Hall.
Barry Bloom wound up representing A LOT of wrestlers around that time. At some point, he's been an agent for Piper, Jericho, Foley, Hall, Nash, Hunter, Waltman, Goldberg, Ventura, Shamrock, and others. Vince never liked the idea of his guys having managers and agents for much the same reason he never allowed them to unionize.
I believe that Jesse was among the first (maybe THE first) pro-wrestler to acquire an agent. In fact, while calling the Piper/Adonis match with Monsoon at WM III, Jesse even alluded to his "new tag-team" of Braverman and Bloom out in LA. Michael Braverman is partners with Bloom, and also serves as Jesse's manager.
Is unlikely that most most viewers knew either of the two men, and Ventura probably mentioned their names more as a dig at Vince with whom Jesse was having some contractual issues. It was a subtle way for Jesse to tell the old man, "I don't need you or wrestling because I've got bigger fish waiting." It was during this time that Jesse landed a guest spot on the series Hunter, and signed to begin filming Predator, which really gave Vince the red ass.
OK! That makes sense, if Bloom is an agent. Thus, the crack-smoking honor goes to whichever WCW suit agreed to that mess.
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OK! That makes sense, if Bloom is an agent. Thus, the crack-smoking honor goes to whichever WCW suit agreed to that mess, as least for Razor.
That was their biggest problem. No one had any accountability, so they did whatever they wanted. Bischoff was spending Turner's money; not his own. Also, most of Turner's people did not come from a wrestling background. Jim Herd, who served as WCW president for a time, was formerly the CEO of Pizza Hut.
But, there was one guy who had the power to put his foot down any time he wanted, and that was Ted Turner himself. He had total control, but was so incredibly dissociated from the operations of that company. Some people have mentioned that Turner knew who Ric Flair was, and his knowledge of WCW and wrestling pretty much ended there. He still could have looked at the numbers and interjected by appointing people who knew WTF they were doing.
Ted Turner deserves the most blame for WCW's demise. He's the one who could have done something, but didn't.
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That was their biggest problem. No one had any accountability, so they did whatever they wanted. Bischoff was spending Turner's money; not his own. Also, most of Turner's people did not come from a wrestling background. Jim Herd, who served as WCW president for a time, was formerly the CEO of Pizza Hut.
But, there was one guy who had the power to put his foot down any time he wanted, and that was Ted Turner himself. He had total control, but was so incredibly dissociated from the operations of that company. Some people have mentioned that Turner knew who Ric Flair was, and his knowledge of WCW and wrestling pretty much ended there. He still could have looked at the numbers and interjected by appointing people who knew WTF they were doing.
Ted Turner deserves the most blame for WCW's demise. He's the one who could have done something, but didn't.
I was editing my earilier post to add the following:
Razor Ramon was never WWF champion; he was never in the main-event of WrestleMania (or any PPV, of which I can recall); and given his drug problems and behind-the-stage issues with certain workers (Goldust, in particular), why would WCW give him substantially more than "Sting money" to return?
Nash said that Hall got three times his WWF salary, which was more than Sting got, working only 150 or so days, with a 120-day injury clause....as well as his "favored nations" one (meaning, he got more money when Diesel showed up).
He said that Hall pleaded with him to jump ship, I'm just the I-C champ; you're the ex-heavyweight champ. They're going to give you more. The more they give you, the more they're going to give ME, beause I have a 'favored nations'. So, if you get a million two ($1.2 million), I GET a million two."
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That was their biggest problem. No one had any accountability, so they did whatever they wanted. Bischoff was spending Turner's money; not his own. Also, most of Turner's people did not come from a wrestling background. Jim Herd, who served as WCW president for a time, was formerly the CEO of Pizza Hut.
But, there was one guy who had the power to put his foot down any time he wanted, and that was Ted Turner himself. He had total control, but was so incredibly dissociated from the operations of that company. Some people have mentioned that Turner knew who Ric Flair was, and his knowledge of WCW and wrestling pretty much ended there. He still could have looked at the numbers and interjected by appointing people who knew WTF they were doing.
Ted Turner deserves the most blame for WCW's demise. He's the one who could have done something, but didn't.
What about JJ Dillon? He jumped ship, too. Dillon was on the panel and stated that, despite the fears that the WWF guys had, they were in no danger of WCW putting them out of business.
He claimed that he saw the financials and, even though WCW was beating them in the ratings, the WWF was KILLING WCW on pay-per-view revenues, as well as merchandise. Also, there was the overhead from doing Nitro live every night vs. WWF's taping every other episode of RAW.
He reminded Nash of the quarterly printout he would get, breaking down the revenues, with a "fat check" at the end of the printout, based on how much "Diesel" merchandise was sold that period.
The story Nash told about how he and Hall got an extra $400 thousand, because JR started that storyline about "Diesel" and "Razor Ramon" returning to the WWF, is HILARIOUS!!
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And, on the topic of Sting, didn't those two co-own a couple of gyms around Atlanta?
Yeah, they had two Main Event Fitness gyms in Atlanta. One on Buford Highway (Mexican ghettoville) which they later sold to Ropeman (personal trainer you see mentioned in Flex magazines) and he renamed it Ropeman's Fitness. The other one was in Marietta on Windy Hill. It was sort of like a "country club" fitness facility. Not because of the equipment (which was hard core and very clean) but because I never ever saw a black person there the entire 3 years that I was a member of that chain. Even Karigan (sp? the cruiserweight dancing guy) was the darkest person in there. The rest of the membership was "High White And All Right" according to Buff Bagwell as he once put it. There was a personal trainer there that had to be the best built human being on the planet. No joke about it. He was about 5'9", 240 and onion skinned 365 days a year. Thing about him, was that he never had the juiced look. His skin never had that "strained" or reddish look to it. Despite looking like an anatomy chart he had a very healthy look to him. And had the greatest symmetry I have ever seen. (and I worked out at Lee Haneys downtown for years too and saw many pros and wanna be pros in there to compare by.) This man was like the Nordic version of Bob Paris.
There was another guy in there, totally gay and very open about it. Had a wicked sense of humor that kept everyone in earshot in stitches. But had gotten calf implants years before and either the doc didn't do them right or they must have shifted because on the outside of his calves were an oval red blotch that never went away. It looked like a surf board shaped ring worm under the skin.
Most everyone from WCW worked out here. Unless you were black. Or your last name was Steiner. They worked out at Coffees Gym down the road. Which was so nasty you had to have a tetnus shot after your workout it seemed.
The Main Event on Buford only got a few of the WCW stars. Ron Simmons, Butch Reed, Goldberg, Zybsko and a few others. I once saw Zybsko walk into this gym early in the morning. About 7am, load 405 on the bench and just rep out 10-12 full range reps on it. I was floored. Not because he didn't warm up, but because I would never expect him to be that strong. Dude did about 8-9 sets of flat bench with the same weight. Knocking out easy reps, not even struggling on the last ones. Could have probably gotten a few more. Then went up to the front desk, cooked a pop tart in the oven, got on the stationary bike and pedaled while eating and reading the newspaper.
This was also where I saw Goldberg get the shit beat out of him in a real life fight by the Iranian that owned Supplement Warehouse over in Midtown.
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Yeah, they had two Main Event Fitness gyms in Atlanta. One on Buford Highway (Mexican ghettoville) which they later sold to Ropeman (personal trainer you see mentioned in Flex magazines) and he renamed it Ropeman's Fitness. The other one was in Marietta on Windy Hill. It was sort of like a "country club" fitness facility. Not because of the equipment (which was hard core and very clean) but because I never ever saw a black person there the entire 3 years that I was a member of that chain. Even Karigan (sp? the cruiserweight dancing guy) was the darkest person in there. The rest of the membership was "High White And All Right" according to Buff Bagwell as he once put it. There was a personal trainer there that had to be the best built human being on the planet. No joke about it. He was about 5'9", 240 and onion skinned 365 days a year. Thing about him, was that he never had the juiced look. His skin never had that "strained" or reddish look to it. Despite looking like an anatomy chart he had a very healthy look to him. And had the greatest symmetry I have ever seen. (and I worked out at Lee Haneys downtown for years too and saw many pros and wanna be pros in there to compare by.) This man was like the Nordic version of Bob Paris.
There was another guy in there, totally gay and very open about it. Had a wicked sense of humor that kept everyone in earshot in stitches. But had gotten calf implants years before and either the doc didn't do them right or they must have shifted because on the outside of his calves were an oval red blotch that never went away. It looked like a surf board shaped ring worm under the skin.
Most everyone from WCW worked out here. Unless you were black. Or your last name was Steiner. They worked out at Coffees Gym down the road. Which was so nasty you had to have a tetnus shot after your workout it seemed.
The Main Event on Buford only got a few of the WCW stars. Ron Simmons, Butch Reed, Goldberg, Zybsko and a few others. I once saw Zybsko walk into this gym early in the morning. About 7am, load 405 on the bench and just rep out 10-12 full range reps on it. I was floored. Not because he didn't warm up, but because I would never expect him to be that strong. Dude did about 8-9 sets of flat bench with the same weight. Knocking out easy reps, not even struggling on the last ones. Could have probably gotten a few more. Then went up to the front desk, cooked a pop tart in the oven, got on the stationary bike and pedaled while eating and reading the newspaper.
This was also where I saw Goldberg get the shit beat out of him in a real life fight by the Iranian that owned Supplement Warehouse over in Midtown.
I've heard Larry talk about his training days with Bruno in Pittsburgh. I'd always wondered how much truth there was to it. Now I know.
Very interesting stuff about the gyms. I'd never heard the Goldberg story before!
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Yeah, they had two Main Event Fitness gyms in Atlanta. One on Buford Highway (Mexican ghettoville) which they later sold to Ropeman (personal trainer you see mentioned in Flex magazines) and he renamed it Ropeman's Fitness. The other one was in Marietta on Windy Hill. It was sort of like a "country club" fitness facility. Not because of the equipment (which was hard core and very clean) but because I never ever saw a black person there the entire 3 years that I was a member of that chain. Even Karigan (sp? the cruiserweight dancing guy) was the darkest person in there. The rest of the membership was "High White And All Right" according to Buff Bagwell as he once put it. There was a personal trainer there that had to be the best built human being on the planet. No joke about it. He was about 5'9", 240 and onion skinned 365 days a year. Thing about him, was that he never had the juiced look. His skin never had that "strained" or reddish look to it. Despite looking like an anatomy chart he had a very healthy look to him. And had the greatest symmetry I have ever seen. (and I worked out at Lee Haneys downtown for years too and saw many pros and wanna be pros in there to compare by.) This man was like the Nordic version of Bob Paris.
There was another guy in there, totally gay and very open about it. Had a wicked sense of humor that kept everyone in earshot in stitches. But had gotten calf implants years before and either the doc didn't do them right or they must have shifted because on the outside of his calves were an oval red blotch that never went away. It looked like a surf board shaped ring worm under the skin.
Most everyone from WCW worked out here. Unless you were black. Or your last name was Steiner. They worked out at Coffees Gym down the road. Which was so nasty you had to have a tetnus shot after your workout it seemed.
The Main Event on Buford only got a few of the WCW stars. Ron Simmons, Butch Reed, Goldberg, Zybsko and a few others. I once saw Zybsko walk into this gym early in the morning. About 7am, load 405 on the bench and just rep out 10-12 full range reps on it. I was floored. Not because he didn't warm up, but because I would never expect him to be that strong. Dude did about 8-9 sets of flat bench with the same weight. Knocking out easy reps, not even struggling on the last ones. Could have probably gotten a few more. Then went up to the front desk, cooked a pop tart in the oven, got on the stationary bike and pedaled while eating and reading the newspaper.
This was also where I saw Goldberg get the shit beat out of him in a real life fight by the Iranian that owned Supplement Warehouse over in Midtown.
Hey, Lurker!
Can you answer the whole Lex-Luger-WrestleMania 10 thing?
Recap: A rumor from years ago claims Luger was to win the WWF title at Mania. But, he got drunk and spilled the beans. A reporter got wind and leaked the results, causing WWF to switch the finish and make Bret Hart champion.
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Hey, Lurker!
Can you answer the whole Lex-Luger-WrestleMania 10 thing?
Recap: A rumor from years ago claims Luger was to win the WWF title at Mania. But, he got drunk and spilled the beans. A reporter got wind and leaked the results, causing WWF to switch the finish and make Bret Hart champion.
Have no knowledge of that. Lex was not very approachable at all. And he was not well liked by many of his peers. Especially those who were not main event stars due to his arrogant attitude and Holier Than Thou personality. I remember hearing him totally rip into Robbie Rage on several occasions for being a drug addict and just air out that dude's private business even though the guy wasn't there to defend himself. And even though Luger was a drug addict himself.
As far as any dealings with Vince goes, the only one I heard about was back when Luger basically walked out of WCW when he was the champ over the fact that they did nothing to build him up as champ. (He won the title in a lackluster match with a lackluster finish ((Race turned heel to help him)) with a lackluster opponent ((Windham)) where neither was really champ as the title was vacate at the time) Windham had NO business being #1 contender. After this they refused to build Luger up with quality level opponents, feuds and angles and he just quit.
He couldn't appear as a wrestler on television for six months per his early release clause, which was ok with Vince as he planned to bring Luger on with the WBF at the time as a host and give him time to heal up from nagging injuries and increase his muscle mass to a greater degree. See, Vince really wanted one of the pro bodybuilders to be pro wrestlers due to their over powering physiques. Yet none of them would (or probably could) go through with actual wrestling training and come out with any kind of believable skills. So instead of taking a bodybuilder and making him into a wrestler, Vince decided to take a wrestler and make him into a bodybuilder. Reasoning Luger already had the wrestling training and skills, he would just give him adequate time to shoot up, train and eat and get even bigger. This is why Vince promoted Luger as doing the guest posing at the WBF contest. But Luger wound up getting hurt in a motorcycle accident and by the time he came back, the WBF was over and Vince was getting wind that the feds were onto him for what eventually turned into the steroid scandal. Other than releasing him or paying Luger to sit at home doing nothing, Vince just stuck him out there on tv with that stupid mirror gimmick.
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Have no knowledge of that. Lex was not very approachable at all. And he was not well liked by many of his peers. Especially those who were not main event stars due to his arrogant attitude and Holier Than Thou personality. I remember hearing him totally rip into Robbie Rage on several occasions for being a drug addict and just air out that dude's private business even though the guy wasn't there to defend himself. And even though Luger was a drug addict himself.
As far as any dealings with Vince goes, the only one I heard about was back when Luger basically walked out of WCW when he was the champ over the fact that they did nothing to build him up as champ. (He won the title in a lackluster match with a lackluster finish ((Race turned heel to help him)) with a lackluster opponent ((Windham)) where neither was really champ as the title was vacate at the time) Windham had NO business being #1 contender. After this they refused to build Luger up with quality level opponents, feuds and angles and he just quit.
He couldn't appear as a wrestler on television for six months per his early release clause, which was ok with Vince as he planned to bring Luger on with the WBF at the time as a host and give him time to heal up from nagging injuries and increase his muscle mass to a greater degree. See, Vince really wanted one of the pro bodybuilders to be pro wrestlers due to their over powering physiques. Yet none of them would (or probably could) go through with actual wrestling training and come out with any kind of believable skills. So instead of taking a bodybuilder and making him into a wrestler, Vince decided to take a wrestler and make him into a bodybuilder. Reasoning Luger already had the wrestling training and skills, he would just give him adequate time to shoot up, train and eat and get even bigger. This is why Vince promoted Luger as doing the guest posing at the WBF contest. But Luger wound up getting hurt in a motorcycle accident and by the time he came back, the WBF was over and Vince was getting wind that the feds were onto him for what eventually turned into the steroid scandal. Other than releasing him or paying Luger to sit at home doing nothing, Vince just stuck him out there on tv with that stupid mirror gimmick.
I thought McMahon did that with Luger, because Lou Ferrigno bailed from the WBF, right after the drug testing started. Remember the hype from the '92 show was "The Legend" vs. the WBF champion.
Here's a link to the Luger-WrestleMania 10 thing:
http://www.wrestleview.com/faq/?article=lexluger
I've always wondered if this was legit, or was it in the same category as the dead Ultimate Warrior rumors.
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I've heard Larry talk about his training days with Bruno in Pittsburgh. I'd always wondered how much truth there was to it. Now I know.
Very interesting stuff about the gyms. I'd never heard the Goldberg story before!
I was shocked at Larry to say the least. Another shocking thing about him was that up close his face was in the worst condition I have ever seen. I don't mean scars or general wear and tear from wrestling, but his skin was horribly pock marked and he had all these little crater like holes over his face.
About Goldberg, I don't know exactly what set it off or what the truth about that weekend was, but apparently Goldberg and his girl was out in a bar that weekend and when they were leaving this girl waved to him and he smiled and mouth something to her. (?? no idea what, but people said they were about 20 feet apart so most likely it was a "hello" thing) Anyway that girls boyfriend was this big ass Iranian guy that ran a discount supplement place in Midtown over on Amsterdam. (still the best place I ever found when I was into using supps) He wasn't happy about whatever it was or whatever he perceived it to be.
I was working out that Monday when Goldberg came in and started working out, about 25 mins later this Iranian shows up and blows past the front desk and walks up and confronts him about talking to his girl. Goldberg told him to go fuck himself and shoved him back. The guy told him never to speak to his girl again and never put his hands on him again. Goldberg then stepped forward and shot his arms out intending to shove the guy back again and that guy flicked his hands up knocking Goldbergs arms out to the side and then as Goldbergs momentum brought his body forward that snapped his head down and head butted him right in the face. Goldberg took a step backwards from the force of the blow and that dude threw a straight jab that knocked him flat on his back with his head hitting the metal leg of the calf raise machine. He lay there for a few seconds and shook it off while the front and back of his head was pouring blood and jumped up and that Iranian told him "think twice before you do something stupid" and Goldberg came forward swinging hooks which that guy blocked with his forearms and then lit into Goldberg with body punches and an uppercut that put him on his ass. It took about 20 guys to pull him off and march him out the door. As much as I liked Goldberg on tv (WCW days, not wWF) I have to admit that he got his ass handed to him then.
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I don't know that Goldberg was all that tough IRL; at least in terms of fighting. I remember when Jericho took him down backstage in WCW. Apparently, it was a very short altercation. Y2J clamped on a front face lock, and that was pretty much the end of it from what I understand. :-\
People who knew Chris during that time have commented off the record that he used gear and could handle himself when out. He was a lot bigger back then, but not so much you'd expect him to handle Goldberg so easily.
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I was shocked at Larry to say the least. Another shocking thing about him was that up close his face was in the worst condition I have ever seen. I don't mean scars or general wear and tear from wrestling, but his skin was horribly pock marked and he had all these little crater like holes over his face.
About Goldberg, I don't know exactly what set it off or what the truth about that weekend was, but apparently Goldberg and his girl was out in a bar that weekend and when they were leaving this girl waved to him and he smiled and mouth something to her. (?? no idea what, but people said they were about 20 feet apart so most likely it was a "hello" thing) Anyway that girls boyfriend was this big ass Iranian guy that ran a discount supplement place in Midtown over on Amsterdam. (still the best place I ever found when I was into using supps) He wasn't happy about whatever it was or whatever he perceived it to be.
I was working out that Monday when Goldberg came in and started working out, about 25 mins later this Iranian shows up and blows past the front desk and walks up and confronts him about talking to his girl. Goldberg told him to go fuck himself and shoved him back. The guy told him never to speak to his girl again and never put his hands on him again. Goldberg then stepped forward and shot his arms out intending to shove the guy back again and that guy flicked his hands up knocking Goldbergs arms out to the side and then as Goldbergs momentum brought his body forward that snapped his head down and head butted him right in the face. Goldberg took a step backwards from the force of the blow and that dude threw a straight jab that knocked him flat on his back with his head hitting the metal leg of the calf raise machine. He lay there for a few seconds and shook it off while the front and back of his head was pouring blood and jumped up and that Iranian told him "think twice before you do something stupid" and Goldberg came forward swinging hooks which that guy blocked with his forearms and then lit into Goldberg with body punches and an uppercut that put him on his ass. It took about 20 guys to pull him off and march him out the door. As much as I liked Goldberg on tv (WCW days, not wWF) I have to admit that he got his ass handed to him then.
The Iron Sheik isn't to be messed with. ;D
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The Iron Sheik isn't to be messed with. ;D
You ain't lying. Did you see how he went off on Glenn Beck, for blasting WWE wrestlers and staff, over this makeover for Jack Swagger?
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You ain't lying. Did you see how he went off on Glenn Beck, for blasting WWE wrestlers and staff, over this makeover for Jack Swagger?
I didn't catch that. But Shiek is always entertaining. Can you imagine if he would have been active during the "shoot" era of promos? It would have been pure gold every week.
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Andre and Luger had their place. Good workers? No. But they had their place.
Goldberg
David Flair
I agree. WCW was full of guys that never should have laced up a pair of boots.
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Andre and Luger had their place. Good workers? No. But they had their place.
Goldberg
David Flair
I agree. WCW was full of guys that never should have laced up a pair of boots.
I HATED Goldberg, and everything about him, just ast Stoppa. But why would you say he had no business being a wrestler? He certainly made it. I'm not arguing with you here, you obviously know way more about the business than I, just a curious question.
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GREAT STORIES/INSIGHT GUYS,,,REALLY GOOD TO HAVE KARL KOX BACK,,,,YEAH LUGER WAS HIS BIGGEST FOR THE WBF AND THEN THE ABOVE SAID ACCIDENT,IS THAT WHERE THE GIMMICK FOR THE NARRCISSIST STARTED WITH THE FOREARM PROTECTOR ..
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if andre hasnt been a wrstler what would he have been . with such size . dont worry he went to wrestling school . you saw him when he was past his prime . went from 1969 top 1990 wrestling or so .
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if andre hasnt been a wrstler what would he have been . with such size . dont worry he went to wrestling school . you saw him when he was past his prime . went from 1969 top 1990 wrestling or so .
Andre headlined the biggest WrestleMania in history. I don't know what Vince had to do to get him to do it, as even he admitted Andre was not up to the match originally.
One, Andre had to turn heel. As McMahon stated, "Here we have this huge babyface, this Hulk Hogan characther. And, we don't have anything equal to that on the other side!"
Two, Andre's health problems were nagging.
But, when Andre did it, he went full bore. If I'm not mistaken, it was his idea to let Hogan slam him, during the match.
As I said earlier, if Hogan-Andre were the only match on the card for WrestleMania 3, it would have sold out that Silverdome and been worth every penny.
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if andre hasnt been a wrstler what would he have been . with such size . dont worry he went to wrestling school . you saw him when he was past his prime . went from 1969 top 1990 wrestling or so .
Yes, Andre did have formal training. He even worked with some Englishmen from around the Wigan area if I'm not mistaken. Regardless, you can't expect a man his size to move like a 230-pounder.
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Yes, Andre did have formal training. He even worked with some Englishmen from around the Wigan area if I'm not mistaken. Regardless, you can't expect a man his size to move like a 230-pounder.
Stoppa and I were talking about that exact same thing, just today. Andre is one that was decent at an early age, and later on should be forgiven for being weak just because he was Andre The Giant. I still say that all things included, he was the most popular wrestler of all times.
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Stoppa and I were talking about that exact same thing, just today. Andre is one that was decent at an early age, and later on should be forgiven for being weak just because he was Andre The Giant. I still say that all things included, he was the most popular wrestler of all times.
He was certainly the most popular for "a" time. Andre was not just recognized, but KNOWN mainstream before wrestling was mainstream, which is a unique accomplishment for the period in which he came up. Yes, times were different back then, but nobody else in the industry had the worldwide notoriety that Andre commanded.
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He was certainly the most popular for "a" time. Andre was not just recognized, but KNOWN mainstream before wrestling was mainstream, which is a unique accomplishment for the period in which he came up. Yes, times were different back then, but nobody else in the industry had the worldwide notoriety that Andre commanded.
That's what made WrestleMania 3 so compelling and probably why McMahon desperately wanted the Hogan-Andre match.
Why this match gets panned so much by today's wrestling fans is beyond me. For its time, the match was awesome. Yes, it was slow-paced. But this was the 80s, where Hogan could get a pop just for shoving his opponent (we saw a taste of that when he faced Rock at WM18).
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That's what made WrestleMania 3 so compelling and probably why McMahon desperately wanted the Hogan-Andre match.
Why this match gets panned so much by today's wrestling fans is beyond me. For its time, the match was awesome. Yes, it was slow-paced. But this was the 80s, where Hogan could get a pop just for shoving his opponent (we saw a taste of that when he faced Rock at WM18).
I honestly couldn't care less what the new generation of fans thinks. They are also addicted to Twilight and Justin Beiber, which totally wrecks any credibility in their taste and judgement.
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andre roussimoff as you know . i am 6 foot 3 inches tall and saw him close . a full head taller than me . . died 1993 . so many years already ago .
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I honestly couldn't care less what the new generation of fans thinks. They are also addicted to Twilight and Justin Beiber, which totally wrecks any credibility in their taste and judgement.
It's not just those folks. Remember when WWE did its top ten WrestleMania matches of all time before WrestleMania 20?
Hogan-Andre got an honorable mention but wasn't on the countdown. To me, that's almost blasphemous.
But, one match was there that had no business there, in my view: Michaels-Austin (WWF title).
That match was LAME, with little drama or excitement to it. Everybody and their mommas knew Austin was going to win the title. The only drama to it (shoot) was whether Michaels would make it in one piece to drop the belt.
NO WAY should Michaels-Austin have made the countdown, while leaving Hogan-Andre off it.
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It's not just those folks. Remember when WWE did its top ten WrestleMania matches of all time before WrestleMania 20?
Hogan-Andre got an honorable mention but wasn't on the countdown. To me, that's almost blasphemous.
But, one match was there that had no business there, in my view: Michaels-Austin (WWF title).
That match was LAME, with little drama or excitement to it. Everybody and their mommas knew Austin was going to win the title. The only drama to it (shoot) was whether Michaels would make it in one piece to drop the belt.
NO WAY should Michaels-Austin have made the countdown, while leaving Hogan-Andre off it.
As much as it pains me to say it, the biggest match ever in the US, if not the world.
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Kendall Windham
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Kendall Windham
TERRIBLE,SOME OF THE VON ERICHS AND COUSINS,HORNSWAGGLE,I DO NOT LIKE WHEN WCW PROMOTED MOVIES OR SPORTS AND HAD KARL MALONE OR ARQUETTE IN THE RING PUTTING GUYS DOWN,WWE DOES IT TOO TYSON,HE WAS LEGIT BUT STILL AND ALL THE ROTATING GM'S 2 YRS AGO THEY WOULD RING TIME FOE A FEW MINUTES AND PULL APUNCH OR GET SLAMMED ,,,
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Once when Booker T was in this middle of one of his "5 time! 5 time! 5 time! ..." rants ::) HHH countered with a list of some of the "great champions of your federation" ... david arquette, vince russo, etc
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TERRIBLE,SOME OF THE VON ERICHS AND COUSINS,HORNSWAGGLE,I DO NOT LIKE WHEN WCW PROMOTED MOVIES OR SPORTS AND HAD KARL MALONE OR ARQUETTE IN THE RING PUTTING GUYS DOWN,WWE DOES IT TOO TYSON,HE WAS LEGIT BUT STILL AND ALL THE ROTATING GM'S 2 YRS AGO THEY WOULD RING TIME FOE A FEW MINUTES AND PULL APUNCH OR GET SLAMMED ,,,
Russo booking:
World Champ - David Arquette
(Half) Tag-Team Champ - Judy Bagwell
Russo did some daft shit, but remember that Turner okayed everything. I blame "Billionaire Ted" for WCW's demise more than Russo.
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Once when Booker T was in this middle of one of his "5 time! 5 time! 5 time! ..." rants ::) HHH countered with a list of some of the "great champions of your federation" ... david arquette, vince russo, etc
Wasn't Helmsley on the shelf, when Booker T arrived as WCW champion? And, wasn't he World Champion by the time he started feuding with Booker T?
BTW, shouldn't his rants be "6 time! 6 time!......." after his last reign (ALL HAIL KING BOOKER!!!!)
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I HATED Goldberg, and everything about him, just ast Stoppa. But why would you say he had no business being a wrestler? He certainly made it. I'm not arguing with you here, you obviously know way more about the business than I, just a curious question.
Goldberg hurt several guys, Bret Hart being one.
He couldn't work. But, he was over. Maybe I'm wrong. It does happen from time to time.. LOL
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Goldberg hurt several guys, Bret Hart being one.
He couldn't work. But, he was over. Maybe I'm wrong. It does happen from time to time.. LOL
I got it. I remember that, and see what you mean now. I couldn't stand him. I imagine it would be fairly easy to get over if you are loved by the promoter and given a push that you can't be beat.
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I got it. I remember that, and see what you mean now. I couldn't stand him. I imagine it would be fairly easy to get over if you are loved by the promoter and given a push that you can't be beat.
It also helps when you have your chants piped thru the PA system.
I am also going to say Zach Ryder, can't act, can't wrestle...woo-woo-woo deez nuts! He is the 2010 version of Steve Lombardi and Barry O
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I got it. I remember that, and see what you mean now. I couldn't stand him. I imagine it would be fairly easy to get over if you are loved by the promoter and given a push that you can't be beat.
X2
So much of it comes down to the push you are given. Look at Vader's tenure at WWF during the mid to late 90's. He had all the makings of a big monster type but never seemed to be backed by Vince and ultimately went nowhere.
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X2
So much of it comes down to the push you are given. Look at Vader's tenure at WWF during the mid to late 90's. He had all the makings of a big monster type but never seemed to be backed by Vince and ultimately went nowhere.
I suspect part of that was because Vince didn't create the Vader gimmick.
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I suspect part of that was because Vince didn't create the Vader gimmick.
That seems to be quite a trend with Vince, huh? Everyone here talks about Terry Taylor, and rightfully so, but there was many more. And I think Taylor could have been a huge star. Flair is about the only one he didn't completely change.
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That seems to be quite a trend with Vince, huh? Everyone here talks about Terry Taylor, and rightfully so, but there was many more. And I think Taylor could have been a huge star. Flair is about the only one he didn't completely change.
HE MADE KERRY VON ERICH 'TEXAS'TORNADO..LITTLE SPIN,RED ROOSTER WAS EMBARRASSING,,,DOINK THE CLOWN AS BAD AS IT COULD GO A GOOD WRESTLER BOURNE DID OK.KAMALA WAS SAME IN OTHER TERRITORIES HE HAD COOL ENTRANCE WITH ENTOURAGE AND KIMCHI SP?THE HANDLER...
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Kendall Windham
Ouch. That is going to be hard to top.
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Ouch. That is going to be hard to top.
He was no Barry for sure, but he did okay I always thought.
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TERRIBLE,SOME OF THE VON ERICHS AND COUSINS,HORNSWAGGLE,I DO NOT LIKE WHEN WCW PROMOTED MOVIES OR SPORTS AND HAD KARL MALONE OR ARQUETTE IN THE RING PUTTING GUYS DOWN,WWE DOES IT TOO TYSON,HE WAS LEGIT BUT STILL AND ALL THE ROTATING GM'S 2 YRS AGO THEY WOULD RING TIME FOE A FEW MINUTES AND PULL APUNCH OR GET SLAMMED ,,,
Yeah that was one of those names that was pointless. When they seen him walking down the aisle for his debut match 90% of the audience didn't give 2 shits about the title "The Texas Tornado"...it was just Kerry Von Erich coming into the ring. "The Texas Tornado" part was completely irrelevant. No part of HIM ever took on that gimmick.
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As much as it pains me to say it, the biggest match ever in the US, if not the world.
Why does it pain you to say that Hogan-Andre was the biggest match ever?
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That seems to be quite a trend with Vince, huh? Everyone here talks about Terry Taylor, and rightfully so, but there was many more. And I think Taylor could have been a huge star. Flair is about the only one he didn't completely change.
Historically, Vince was always much more likely to push guys/characters that he created. As for taking guys who were previously over somewhere else - like Terry Taylor, Harley Race, etc. - and giving them tacky, cornball gimmicks, many folks rightfully speculate that Vince did that for his own amusement and to exercise his power and control.
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Why does it pain you to say that Hogan-Andre was the biggest match ever?
It pains me to give any credit at all to Hogan. I guess I don't have to because if Andre wasn't in the match doing what he did, it would have been just another match.
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Why does it pain you to say that Hogan-Andre was the biggest match ever?
The Hulk Hogan character was the catalyst behind the WWF machine that not only went against everything that was "traditional" pro-wrestling, but was also making it obsolete by either putting the other outfits out of business, or forcing them to change.
The changes are what enabled wrestling to go mainstream, but purist fans will forever detest losing their beloved product. Many of them directly blame Vince and Hogan.
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The Hulk Hogan character was the catalyst behind the WWF machine that not only went against everything that was "traditional" pro-wrestling, but was also making it obsolete by either putting the other outfits out of business, or forcing them to change.
The changes are what enabled wrestling to go mainstream, but purist fans will forever detest losing their beloved product. Many of them directly blame Vince and Hogan.
True. But I dislike Hogan for many other reasons. I give Vince credit for ruining the business as I knew it, and for the silly superhero stuff. I don't understand how he could bastardize the business his father helped build and that was obviously a big part of his life too. He sure did make some money though. Bigger isn't always better, except on Get Big.
I despise Hogan for his backstage stuff, refusal to put anyone over, always having to keep Flair down (admittedly, that might be a little bigger in my mind than actual fact, but it sure seemed that way) and insistence on being the main attraction no matter what. I think some on here have said different, but I will never be convinced that Hogan didn't see Hall and Nash taking off, and force himself into the nWo.
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True. But I dislike Hogan for many other reasons. I give Vince credit for ruining the business as I knew it, and for the silly superhero stuff. I don't understand how he could bastardize the business his father helped build and that was obviously a big part of his life too. He sure did make some money though. &guy isn't always better, except on Get Big.
I despise Hogan for his backstage stuff, refusal to put anyone over, always having to keep Flair down (admittedly, that might be a little bigger in my mind than actual fact, but it sure seemed that way) and insistence on being the main attraction no matter what. I think some on here have said different, but I will never be convinced that Hogan didn't see Hall and Nash taking off, and force himself into the nWo.
Nash himself said that Hogan initially DID NOT want to be part of the nWo. They knew that, for the gimmick to really catch fire, either Hogan or Sting had to defect. Sting DEFINITELY wanted no part of it. Nash thanked Hogan for agreeing to join the crew, and that's when it took off. It made sense, when you think about it. Two of the biggest "WWF new generation" stars were being joined by the WWF's biggest cash cow.
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Nash himself said that Hogan initially DID NOT want to be part of the nWo. They knew that, for the gimmick to really catch fire, either Hogan or Sting had to defect. Sting DEFINITELY wanted no part of it. Nash thanked Hogan for agreeing to join the crew, and that's when it took off. It made sense, when you think abou tit. Two of the biggest "WWF new generation" stars were being joined by the WWF's biggest cash cow.
As I said, I will never believe that, but who am I to question Nash. I can believe Sting, but not Hogan. A high-up in the Turner organization at the time told me as much about Hogan.
I attended quite a few Nitros at the time, and lived on a few boards. I can tell you that Hall and Nash were way over from the beginning and did not need any help. All the people I talked to at live events, and on the boards, couldn't care less if Hogan was involved or not. Stoppa can verify this as well.
Again, not arguing with you, just stating what I believe and saw.
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The Hulk Hogan character was the catalyst behind the WWF machine that not only went against everything that was "traditional" pro-wrestling, but was also making it obsolete by either putting the other outfits out of business, or forcing them to change.
The changes are what enabled wrestling to go mainstream, but purist fans will forever detest losing their beloved product. Many of them directly blame Vince and Hogan.
Once I got a taste of the WWF, I was hooked. Florida Championship Wrestling (with Gordon Solie) looked so bush-league after that. And, I watched that faithfully for years, as a kid.
And, this was before I actually got to see Hogan. Once he came into the picture, forget it. Since Florida Championship Wrestling was a feeder to the NWA, Ric Flair would show up from time to time. There was a local guy, name Scott McGee, that could always beat Flair in non-title matches.
But, the reason I liked the WWF better was because Hogan looked more like a world champion than Flair did. I mean, it took Flair take an hour to beat Terry Funk; Hogan beat him in 10 minutes and spend the rest of his time, posing to "Real American".
I guess that's part of what you and OLE BIG are saying. All these monster heels in other feds would get fed to Hogan and dismembered, in the time it takes to make popcorn (the old-school way, on the stove).
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But, the reason I liked the WWF better was because Hogan looked more like a world champion than Flair did. I mean, it took Flair take an hour to beat Terry Funk; Hogan beat him in 10 minutes and spend the rest of his time, posing to "Real American".
Oh, man... You just opened the Suez Canal to a backlash shit-storm! ;D
I'm outta here before Stoppa and OLE BIG see this!!
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venom vince vercace
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Oh, man... You just opened the Suez Canal to a backlash shit-storm! ;D
I'm outta here before Stoppa and OLE BIG see this!!
Oh boy, where to begin? Since it would probably take days, I will probably just sit and shake my head.
I sure hope Stoppa does not see that Solie comment. He will blow a gasket. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Oh boy, where to begin? Since it would probably take days, I will probably just sit and shake my head.
I sure hope Stoppa does not see that Solie comment. He will blow a gasket. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I think it's fair to say that Vince gave a lot of people what they wanted to see, but it wasn't what everyone wanted. In MCWAY's case, the WWF won some fans over, while others like you and S. preferred your original products.
I've said before that, regardless of our opinions of Vince McMahon Jr., he may have kept wrestling alive. The territories were a dying breed, for the most part, before Vince began his take-over. If VKM hadn't changed the landscape, pro-wrestling may have gone the way of Vaudeville. The only exception may have been JCP, which was hanging on and going strong on the traditional style until Mr. Crockett sold the company to Turner, who...well...you know the rest.
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I think it's fair to say that Vince gave a lot of people what they wanted to see, but it wasn't what everyone wanted. In MCWAY's case, the WWF won some fans over, while others like you and S. preferred your original products.
I've said before that, regardless of our opinions of Vince McMahon Jr., he may have kept wrestling alive. The territories were a dying breed, for the most part, before Vince began his take-over. If VKM hadn't changed the landscape, pro-wrestling may have gone the way of Vaudeville. The only exception may have been JCP, which was hanging on and going strong on the traditional style until Mr. Crockett sold the company to Turner, who...well...you know the rest.
I don't know that they would have died, and I think he played a big part in killing them. As I have said before, I can't understand at all his total disregard for those that paved the way for him.
Obviously, he sometimes has a way of giving people what they want and being able to target certain segments of people. When the superhero stuff lost it's luster, he went the PG era and we all know how big that was.
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I don't know that they would have died, and I think he played a big part in killing them. As I have said before, I can't understand at all his total disregard for those that paved the way for him.
Obviously, he sometimes has a way of giving people what they want and being able to target certain segments of people. When the superhero stuff lost it's luster, he went the PG era and we all know how big that was.
I think you're leaving out the production value that McMahon had over his competitors. Again, when I watched WWF, compared to Florida Championship Wrestling, The UWF, or even the NWA, it was like night and day.
Plus, let's not forget the Rock-N-Wrestling connection. Yes, the characters were quite cartoonish. But, with a larger-than -life Hulk Hogan character, what organization could compete with that?
That's why I say the Hogan-Andre match at WrestleMania 3 is one of the greatest of all time. The "Slam-Heard-'Round-The-World" is iconic.
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I think you're leaving out the production value that McMahon had over his competitors. Again, when I watched WWF, compared to Florida Championship Wrestling, The UWF, or even the NWA, it was like night and day.
Plus, let's not forget the Rock-N-Wrestling connection. Yes, the characters were quite cartoonish. But, with a larger-than -life Hulk Hogan character, what organization could compete with that?
That's why I say the Hogan-Andre match at WrestleMania 3 is one of the greatest of all time. The "Slam-Heard-'Round-The-World" is iconic.
ROWDY RODDY IN MSG I WAS THERE A KID AN HE BELLOWED'MTV...MUSIC TO VOMIT BY...GRABBED A PLAQUE PRESENTED TO CAPTAIN LOUIS ALBANO AND BASHED IT OVER HIS HEAD,,,MR T WAS 2 ROWS IN FRONT OF ME 'GUESS WHAT HAPPENED???HE ENTERED THE FORAY TOO,,,THE BEGINNING OF HOGAN/T /PIPER FEUD NEW ERA,,,,
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ROWDY RODDY IN MSG I WAS THERE A KID AN HE BELLOWED'MTV...MUSIC TO VOMIT BY...GRABBED A PLAQUE PRESENTED TO CAPTAIN LOUIS ALBANO AND BASHED IT OVER HIS HEAD,,,MR T WAS 2 ROWS IN FRONT OF ME 'GUESS WHAT HAPPENED???HE ENTERED THE FORAY TOO,,,THE BEGINNING OF HOGAN/T /PIPER FEUD NEW ERA,,,,
Damn! You were there for that?
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I don't know that they would have died, and I think he played a big part in killing them.
Oh, no doubt. He didn't do anything to help them, but business in many of the smaller outfits was down before Vince started his scheme. Even the AWA was hurting. That's why so many of Verne's crew jumped ship when Vince started making offers; they saw Vince succeeding where Verne was failing.
There were other factors working against the old territories. The WWF was just the final nail in the coffin.
Crockett's made some shrewd moves against the McMahon's, but many of them failed to pay off and only cost the company. Remember when they were running big shows directly against each other on the same day? In '87, Vince threatened cable providers that if they aired Starrcade the afternoon before Survivor Series, he would not allow them to carry SS, Mania, and other PPV's in the works. Most companies committed to WWF, which killed the buyrates for Crockett's.
IMO, Jim Crockett's biggest mistake was trying to invade WWF's turf by running big shows up north where the company had little exposure and history. I think that hurt the gates for those shows and left their stronghold towns feeling betrayed, leading to diminished buyrates.
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I think you're leaving out the production value that McMahon had over his competitors. Again, when I watched WWF, compared to Florida Championship Wrestling, The UWF, or even the NWA, it was like night and day.
Plus, let's not forget the Rock-N-Wrestling connection. Yes, the characters were quite cartoonish. But, with a larger-than -life Hulk Hogan character, what organization could compete with that?
That's why I say the Hogan-Andre match at WrestleMania 3 is one of the greatest of all time. The "Slam-Heard-'Round-The-World" is iconic.
As I have said before, if it is called the biggest of all-time, I can't argue. And I wouldn't even start to argue with anyone that called it great. As I said in the other thread, it was big because of Andre's involvement. Hogan was the benefactor, nothing else. I know he was big, blah, blah, blah, but to call anything he did in wrestling great is beyond me.
The Rock And Wrestling helped line Vince's pockets for sure. What else it did is questionable.
And the larger-than-life Hogan was loved by 12 year old kids like I said earlier. Vince had an idea and it worked.
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TOO MANY TO MENTION BUT RHODES NWA/FLRIDA/WWF/BACK TO FLORIDA/NWA,,HOGAN AWA/WWF.PATERA AWA/WWF/AWA ,,IRON SHEIK NWA GEORGIA/AWA/WWF ..SHARED TERRITORIES ,GOOD WRESTLING,ANGLES .
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As I have said before, if it is called the biggest of all-time, I can't argue. And I wouldn't even start to argue with anyone that called it great. As I said in the other thread, it was big because of Andre's involvement. Hogan was the benefactor, nothing else. I know he was big, blah, blah, blah, but to call anything he did in wrestling great is beyond me.
The Rock And Wrestling helped line Vince's pockets for sure. What else it did is questionable.
And the larger-than-life Hogan was loved by 12 year old kids like I said earlier. Vince had an idea and it worked.
Plus, the Hulk Hogan character ran its course pretty quick in the scheme of things, not possessing the same stamina and longevity as Ric Flair. Hogan's act began to stale by the beginning of the 90's and fans had grown a bit tired of the paradigm. That's why they gave Hogan some lengthy breaks and Vince began trying out other talents like Ultimate Warrior, Sid, etc. to see how they'd do.
The 80's hogan was very one-dimensional: simplistic and repetitive promos, simplistic and repetitive matches - all more predictable than an episode of Walker, Texas Ranger. It was wrestling's biggest success to that point, but was not designed to endure. Fans wanted something with more depth.
Nobody ever tired of watching Flair. And, Ric could revisit feuds. There was seldom a part 2 with Hogan's nemeses.
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Plus, the Hulk Hogan character ran its course pretty quick in the scheme of things, not possessing the same stamina and longevity as Ric Flair. Hogan's act began to stale by the beginning of the 90's and fans had grown a bit tired of the paradigm. That's why they gave Hogan some lengthy breaks and Vince began trying out other talents like Ultimate Warrior, Sid, etc. to see how they'd do.
The 80's hogan was very one-dimensional: simplistic and repetitive promos, simplistic and repetitive matches - all more predictable than an episode of Walker, Texas Ranger. It was wrestling's biggest success to that point, but was not designed to endure. Fans wanted something with more depth.
Nobody ever tired of watching Flair. And, Ric could revisit feuds. There was seldom a part 2 with Hogan's nemeses.
THATS TRUE ABOUT HOGAN'S REIGN ONE AND DONE TITLE MATCHES,,,BACKLUND HAD GOOD MATCHES WITH RIVALS USUALLY COUNT OUT,THEN DISQUALIFICATION OR COUNT OUT,THEN 3RD MATCH WAS A SPECIAL MATCH OR PIN/SUBMISSION BY BACKLUND,,,HOGAN HAD NO RING STAMINA,,,
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HOGAN HAD NO RING STAMINA,,,
It didn't help that he carried all of that Deca-bloat/water weight at the time.
I actually thought he moved better in his Mania match with Rock many years later. He was leaner and looked better conditioned. He was also very quick to get up after bumps. I suspect he trained his ass off for that believing it may be his last run. I respected the shape he got in for that angle.
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THATS TRUE ABOUT HOGAN'S REIGN ONE AND DONE TITLE MATCHES,,,BACKLUND HAD GOOD MATCHES WITH RIVALS USUALLY COUNT OUT,THEN DISQUALIFICATION OR COUNT OUT,THEN 3RD MATCH WAS A SPECIAL MATCH OR PIN/SUBMISSION BY BACKLUND,,,HOGAN HAD NO RING STAMINA,,,
As the saying goes, he don't paid by the hour. Considering that Hogan was bigger than most of his opponents, people expected the Hulkster to make quick work of them.
Plus, the Hulk Hogan character ran its course pretty quick in the scheme of things, not possessing the same stamina and longevity as Ric Flair. Hogan's act began to stale by the beginning of the 90's and fans had grown a bit tired of the paradigm. That's why they gave Hogan some lengthy breaks and Vince began trying out other talents like Ultimate Warrior, Sid, etc. to see how they'd do.
The 80's hogan was very one-dimensional: simplistic and repetitive promos, simplistic and repetitive matches - all more predictable than an episode of Walker, Texas Ranger. It was wrestling's biggest success to that point, but was not designed to endure. Fans wanted something with more depth.
Nobody ever tired of watching Flair. And, Ric could revisit feuds. There was seldom a part 2 with Hogan's nemeses.
It became less believeable, partially because Hogan shrank. You can't quite sell the power of the pythons, when (relatively speaking) your physique resembles poultry.
At Wresstlemania 9, he looked like a crackhead.
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Where to start..... I couldn't locate the derogatory (I assume) comment about Gordon Solie. It was a privilege to hear Gordon call a match. Best ever.....and didn't have to rely on yelling "GOOOOODDDDD LAAAAAARD !!!!!" 300 times a show....but I digress.
As for Hogan/Vince/Flair, etc... I remember being very fired up to actually see a Hogan match on USA or WGN back in the day when we first got cable, yes I'm old.... I had read about Hogan in mags for years and wanted to see what it was all about. This was around the time Muraco and Snuka were fueding if I remember correctly. Hogan's entrance, as always, was great.....looks great, way-over....great music.. Eye of the Tiger.... and then the match commenced. Wow.... after watching Flair, Steamboat, Masked Superstar, Buzz Sawyer, Mr. Wrestling I and II, Wahoo, etc... to say it was a letdown would be like saying McWay was "disappointed" when Obama was re-elected. He wrestled the EXACT same match over and over and over. Some will say Flair was repetitive and of course he had signature moves, etc... but I watched Flair extensively for YEARS in various territories and he could adapt and him "taking an hour" to defeat Terry Funk (another all-time great worker) is the point. He could hold an entire arena in the palm of his hand for an hour....never knowing when or how a match would end. With Hogan there was very little doubt about the final minute of EVERY match. I know it's all individual tastes and at the age I was when the Horsemen took off, I wanted to drive the nice cars, drink the finest and have all the hot women...just like Flair. I certainly didn't want to be a bald guy who cut promo's talking about eating vitamins. Hogan was aimed at a certain demographic, young kids, and Flair was aimed at a more mature audience.
I've summed it up like this before and feel it's the most accurate. Flair is Robert DeNiro and Hogan is Arnold or Stallone. I think most will understand that comparison.
On April 29, 1995, in North Korea, Ric Flair wrestled Antonio Inoki in a match attended by 190,000 people. The number is believed to be the highest ever to attend a professional wrestling card. Take that VKM media-hype machine..... Whoooooooooooooooooooooo oooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 8)
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Where to start..... I couldn't locate the derogatory (I assume) comment about Gordon Solie. It was a privilege to hear Gordon call a match. Best ever.....and didn't have to rely on yelling "GOOOOODDDDD LAAAAAARD !!!!!" 300 times a show....but I digress.
As for Hogan/Vince/Flair, etc... I remember being very fired up to actually see a Hogan match on USA or WGN back in the day when we first got cable, yes I'm old.... I had read about Hogan in mags for years and wanted to see what it was all about. This was around the time Muraco and Snuka were fueding if I remember correctly. Hogan's entrance, as always, was great.....looks great, way-over....great music.. Eye of the Tiger.... and then the match commenced. Wow.... after watching Flair, Steamboat, Masked Superstar, Buzz Sawyer, Mr. Wrestling I and II, Wahoo, etc... to say it was a letdown would be like saying McWay was "disappointed" when Obama was re-elected. He wrestled the EXACT same match over and over and over. Some will say Flair was repetitive and of course he had signature moves, etc... but I watched Flair extensively for YEARS in various territories and he could adapt and him "taking an hour" to defeat Terry Funk (another all-time great worker) is the point. He could hold an entire arena in the palm of his hand for an hour....never knowing when or how a match would end. With Hogan there was very little doubt about the final minute of EVERY match. I know it's all individual tastes and at the age I was when the Horsemen took off, I wanted to drive the nice cars, drink the finest and have all the hot women...just like Flair. I certainly didn't want to be a bald guy who cut promo's talking about eating vitamins. Hogan was aimed at a certain demographic, young kids, and Flair was aimed at a more mature audience.
I've summed it up like this before and feel it's the most accurate. Flair is Robert DeNiro and Hogan is Arnold or Stallone. I think most will understand that comparison.
On April 29, 1995, in North Korea, Ric Flair wrestled Antonio Inoki in a match attended by 190,000 people. The number is believed to be the highest ever to attend a professional wrestling card. Take that VKM media-hype machine..... Whoooooooooooooooooooooo oooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 8)
NICE....YEAH HOGAN/SHEIK ALL 8 MINUTES OF IT WAS PRETTY EXCITING 'EYE OF TIGER' ,,THEN HE SWITCHED TO REAL AMERICAN BETTER SONG TO POSE SAME BULK HOGAN POSES LOL,,,HOGAN CARRIED LIKE ARNOLD DID BBING FOR THE PEAK TIME NEEDED,,,
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Where to start..... I couldn't locate the derogatory (I assume) comment about Gordon Solie. It was a privilege to hear Gordon call a match. Best ever.....and didn't have to rely on yelling "GOOOOODDDDD LAAAAAARD !!!!!" 300 times a show....but I digress.
There was no derogatory comment about Solie, not from me. I liked Gordon Solie. Again, I grew up with Florida Championship Wrestling. Solie was the only guy who pronounced "suplex" as "soo-play" (leaving the "x" silent). Everyone else says "soo-plex".
As for Hogan/Vince/Flair, etc... I remember being very fired up to actually see a Hogan match on USA or WGN back in the day when we first got cable, yes I'm old.... I had read about Hogan in mags for years and wanted to see what it was all about. This was around the time Muraco and Snuka were fueding if I remember correctly. Hogan's entrance, as always, was great.....looks great, way-over....great music.. Eye of the Tiger.... and then the match commenced. Wow.... after watching Flair, Steamboat, Masked Superstar, Buzz Sawyer, Mr. Wrestling I and II, Wahoo, etc... to say it was a letdown would be like saying McWay was "disappointed" when Obama was re-elected. He wrestled the EXACT same match over and over and over. Some will say Flair was repetitive and of course he had signature moves, etc... but I watched Flair extensively for YEARS in various territories and he could adapt and him "taking an hour" to defeat Terry Funk (another all-time great worker) is the point. He could hold an entire arena in the palm of his hand for an hour....never knowing when or how a match would end. With Hogan there was very little doubt about the final minute of EVERY match. I know it's all individual tastes and at the age I was when the Horsemen took off, I wanted to drive the nice cars, drink the finest and have all the hot women...just like Flair. I certainly didn't want to be a bald guy who cut promo's talking about eating vitamins. Hogan was aimed at a certain demographic, young kids, and Flair was aimed at a more mature audience.
My take was the exact opposite. I wanted to be a HUGE guy with 24" pyhtons, who stood larger than life and could vanquish any foe in his way. I certainly didn't want to be some (relatively speaking) shrimp of a champion with a raggedy belt (before he got the big gold one), who couldn't tie his shoe without the Horsemen helping him.
When Flair needs an hour (and help) to beat a guy, while Hogan beats that same guy in 5-10 minutes, there's no question to me who the better champion was (back in the day).
I've summed it up like this before and feel it's the most accurate. Flair is Robert DeNiro and Hogan is Arnold or Stallone. I think most will understand that comparison.
On April 29, 1995, in North Korea, Ric Flair wrestled Antonio Inoki in a match attended by 190,000 people. The number is believed to be the highest ever to attend a professional wrestling card. Take that VKM media-hype machine..... Whoooooooooooooooooooooo oooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 8)
That's just it. Flair's matches were almost as predictable as those of Hogan. Flair would either keep the title on a technicality or the Horsemen would save his behind.
I pretty much wrote off Flair matches and those of the NWA/Florida Championship Wrestling, when I saw a match between Flair and Luger for the title.
Luger got busted open, during the match. The match continued and eventually, Luger beat Flair and won the title, or so we thought. Then, came some STUPID decision that the match had to be stopped, because Luger was bleeding. It didn't stop while he was gushing blood. But, the decision had to be reversed AFTER Luger pinned Flair and won the belt. The refs gave the title back to Flair.
Add to that a 2-out-of-3 falls match, where Luger won the first fall. But, then the Horsemen and a bunch of other goons jumped Luger, between the first and second falls. Luger was in no shape to fight and Flair won the next two falls easily.
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chris vonerich undersized out of his element. ??? ??? ??? ???
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Where to start..... I couldn't locate the derogatory (I assume) comment about Gordon Solie. It was a privilege to hear Gordon call a match. Best ever.....and didn't have to rely on yelling "GOOOOODDDDD LAAAAAARD !!!!!" 300 times a show....but I digress.
As for Hogan/Vince/Flair, etc... I remember being very fired up to actually see a Hogan match on USA or WGN back in the day when we first got cable, yes I'm old.... I had read about Hogan in mags for years and wanted to see what it was all about. This was around the time Muraco and Snuka were fueding if I remember correctly. Hogan's entrance, as always, was great.....looks great, way-over....great music.. Eye of the Tiger.... and then the match commenced. Wow.... after watching Flair, Steamboat, Masked Superstar, Buzz Sawyer, Mr. Wrestling I and II, Wahoo, etc... to say it was a letdown would be like saying McWay was "disappointed" when Obama was re-elected. He wrestled the EXACT same match over and over and over. Some will say Flair was repetitive and of course he had signature moves, etc... but I watched Flair extensively for YEARS in various territories and he could adapt and him "taking an hour" to defeat Terry Funk (another all-time great worker) is the point. He could hold an entire arena in the palm of his hand for an hour....never knowing when or how a match would end. With Hogan there was very little doubt about the final minute of EVERY match. I know it's all individual tastes and at the age I was when the Horsemen took off, I wanted to drive the nice cars, drink the finest and have all the hot women...just like Flair. I certainly didn't want to be a bald guy who cut promo's talking about eating vitamins. Hogan was aimed at a certain demographic, young kids, and Flair was aimed at a more mature audience.
I've summed it up like this before and feel it's the most accurate. Flair is Robert DeNiro and Hogan is Arnold or Stallone. I think most will understand that comparison.
On April 29, 1995, in North Korea, Ric Flair wrestled Antonio Inoki in a match attended by 190,000 people. The number is believed to be the highest ever to attend a professional wrestling card. Take that VKM media-hype machine..... Whoooooooooooooooooooooo oooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 8)
Good take.
Very good take!
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chris vonerich undersized out of his element. ??? ??? ??? ???
I've seen people write stuff like "Chris would have been something in a lighter division like Cruiserweight" but I just don't see it. The kid obviously wanted it but the physical limitations were just too much to overcome.
I do think Mike Von Erich would have been a really nice fit at a Cruiserweight type division. Not that he would have set the world on fire but you could tell he had a decent amount of athleticism pre Toxic Shock condition. I always seen him as a slighter, lesser version of Kevin.
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I've seen people write stuff like "Chris would have been something in a lighter division like Cruiserweight" but I just don't see it. The kid obviously wanted it but the physical limitations were just too much to overcome.
I do think Mike Von Erich would have been a really nice fit at a Cruiserweight type division. Not that he would have set the world on fire but you could tell he had a decent amount of athleticism pre Toxic Shock condition. I always seen him as a slighter, lesser version of Kevin.
KERRY AT TIME MOSTLY HAD A THICK GREAT BUILD,,,MIKE HAD A SLEEK RIPPED AND GOOD SHAPED BUILD,,DAVID WELL...
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Karl Kox
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KERRY AT TIME MOSTLY HAD A THICK GREAT BUILD,,,MIKE HAD A SLEEK RIPPED AND GOOD SHAPED BUILD,,DAVID WELL...
True but David was close to 6'7 and didn't have the type of frame condusive to packing on muscle but I still say he was up there with Fritz as being the most talented Von Erich of all. He didn't have that outrageous body like Kerry but he had great ring psychology, his story lines were always interesting, his interviews were always fun to watch and he could work a 20+ minute match and hold the crowd the entire way.
I don't know if his cowboy look would have made the transition in New York with WWF but I would have loved to have seen him through out the 80's in the South/WCW working with the 4 horseman or something along those lines.
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I don't know if his cowboy look would have made the transition in New York with WWF but I would have loved to have seen him through out the 80's in the South/WCW working with the 4 horseman or something along those lines.
They actually wanted Bret to be "Cowboy" Bret Hart when WWF first signed him. Bret was smart to kick and scream for something else. They eventually gave the rhinestone cowboy gimmick to Jeff Jarrett about ten years later.
And Vince was shocked that Jarrett couldn't get over in his company.
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They actually wanted Bret to be "Cowboy" Bret Hart when WWF first signed him. Bret was smart to kick and scream for something else. They eventually gave the rhinestone cowboy gimmick to Jeff Jarrett about ten years later.
And Vince was shocked that Jarrett couldn't get over in his company.
J E DOUBLE F.J E DOUBLE R E DOUBLE TTTT..RHINESTONES,LOOKED LIKE MAKEUP TOO,,,HE HAD BIG ARMS THO,,
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They actually wanted Bret to be "Cowboy" Bret Hart when WWF first signed him. Bret was smart to kick and scream for something else. They eventually gave the rhinestone cowboy gimmick to Jeff Jarrett about ten years later.
And Vince was shocked that Jarrett couldn't get over in his company.
Was Jarrett really ever over in WCW with his persona? I know he was really pushed though. There seems to be a divide on him amongst fans but I never really hated the guy like you might some heels...I just thought him to be so boring that I got up to make a sandwich when he came on. Complete indifference. At least when Honky Tonk Man held the guitar he could pull it off because he had an interesting personality. JJ was just garbage personality wise but a decent worker.
Vince really makes you shake your head with some of the ideas he would come up with. What in his mind thought he could just slap any package on a technically great wrestler and it would sell?? Bret would have looked SO ridiculous in a 2 bit cowboy outfit walking to the ring. He would have felt like the biggest clown in the world!
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J E DOUBLE F.J E DOUBLE R E DOUBLE TTTT..RHINESTONES,LOOKED LIKE MAKEUP TOO,,,HE HAD BIG ARMS THO,,
Yeah, I just think that whole gimmick was a death sentence for Jarrett. Like Terry Taylor, Jeff was a good worker overshadowed by a stupid character. But, there was a time that guys were willing to work stupid gimmicks just to get into the company.
Some, like Matt Borne, out-worked the idiocy of their assigned character. Matt did wonders as an "evil" clown. In fact, he did so well as Doink, that the character became somewhat iconic, having its own cult following even today. Matt continued to work the Doink gimmick on the Indy scene, and I believe several other men have used it, too. Since Vince is the only person with the rights to that character, he routinely sent cease and desist orders to offenders, including Matt.
Up until at least a few years ago, I know Matt was working shows in clown makeup, but looking more like Heath Ledger's Joker character. I don't know if he was still using the Doink name at all, but I saw footage of him in the gear I described.
Sting recently tried doing something similar in TNA, which tanked.
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Was Jarrett really ever over in WCW with his persona? I know he was really pushed though. There seems to be a divide on him amongst fans but I never really hated the guy like you might some heels...I just thought him to be so boring that I got up to make a sandwich when he came on. Complete indifference. At least when Honky Tonk Man held the guitar he could pull it off because the guy he had an interesting personality. JJ was just garbage personality wise but a decent worker.
Vince really makes you shake your head with some of the ideas he would come up with. What in his mind thought he could just slap any package on a technically great wrestler and it would sell?? Bret would have looked SO ridiculous in a 2 bit cowboy outfit walking to the ring. He would have felt like the biggest clown in the world!
The old man actually wanted Bret to come to the ring on a horse; a different one each week, as they would requisition one in each town for that show. George Scott allegedly sprouted wood as he excitedly explained this big plan to a "pre-Hart Foundation" Bret in '84.
Vince spoke at some college in '99 when WWF was insanely popular with the momentum of the Attitude Era in full swing. He entertained questions from the audience when someone asked him which wrestler he thought would have done better. At first, he dodged the question by saying he was pleasantly surprised at the longevity of The Undertaker character. But, he did eventually offer a follow-up response saying he was disappointed the Jeff Jarret character didn't do better.
It didn't sound like any sour grapes. It wasn't a slam on Jeff. Vince could have easily buried Jarrett, who'd just left for WCW. However, Vince did make a point to very publicly "fire" Jeff on the last episode of Nitro a few short years later. Granted, he was in character at the time, so it's hard to know how if or how much he enjoyed making that little announcement.
I think indifference is an accurate term to describe what many fans felt towards Jarrett. He didn't have "X-PAC heat," but his character was never very engaging. He was always cooperative, professional, and safe to work with, but that doesn't get you over with fans. He received a bigger push in TNA, but remember that he and his Dad started and owned the company.
I don't know how over he is now, because I honestly pay little attention to what goes on in either company.
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Was Jarrett really ever over in WCW with his persona? I know he was really pushed though. There seems to be a divide on him amongst fans but I never really hated the guy like you might some heels...I just thought him to be so boring that I got up to make a sandwich when he came on. Complete indifference. At least when Honky Tonk Man held the guitar he could pull it off because he had an interesting personality. JJ was just garbage personality wise but a decent worker.
Vince really makes you shake your head with some of the ideas he would come up with. What in his mind thought he could just slap any package on a technically great wrestler and it would sell?? Bret would have looked SO ridiculous in a 2 bit cowboy outfit walking to the ring. He would have felt like the biggest clown in the world!
You mean like his latest creation.....
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They actually wanted Bret to be "Cowboy" Bret Hart when WWF first signed him. Bret was smart to kick and scream for something else. They eventually gave the rhinestone cowboy gimmick to Jeff Jarrett about ten years later.
And Vince was shocked that Jarrett couldn't get over in his company.
Jarrett was over big as a heel. As a mid-carder, his feud with Razor Ramon (during his "Double J" shtick, he was one of my favorite heels) was awesome. And, he had the Roadie to top it off, nicely.
After his second attempt at being "Double J", he went with his "Don't P*@@ Me Off" mantra, with the former Godwinns as his bodyguards. Of course, when he dropped them and picked up Debra, people hated his guts but loved Debra and her "puppies" (which nearly gave Jerry "The King" Lawler a heart attack 13 years earlier).
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Jarrett was over big as a heel. As a mid-carder, his feud with Razor Ramon (during his "Double J" shtick, he was one of my favorite heels) was awesome.
The degree to which Jarrett was over is debatable and down to opinion. His former boss, and owner of the biggest, most successful wrestling promotion ever, would disagree with you.
Vince personally admitted disappointment in the Jeff Jarrett character's success.
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The degree to which Jarrett was over is debatable and down to opinion. His former boss, and owner of the biggest, most successful wrestling promotion ever, would disagree with you.
Vince personally admitted disappointment in the Jeff Jarrett character's success.
Wasn't Jarrett one of the biggest heels in the WWF in '99, before he left? When he bought off Mark Henry to turn on D'lo Brown and help him win the IC and European titles, people loathed him (although they still loved Debra).
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Wasn't Jarrett one of the biggest heels in the WWF in '99, before he left? When he bought off Mark Henry to turn on D'lo Brown and help him win the IC and European titles, people loathed him (although they still loved Debra).
Take it up with Vince.
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There were bigger heels at that time like Rock and Hunter. If Vince expected Jarrett to be on their level, that would explain his disappointment. Jarrett wasn't bad, but he had nowhere near the charisma of someone like Rock - either in the ring or on the stick. That was extremely tough competition.
Rock was captivating. Despite being a heel, fans rallied behind the character because it and the performer were so good. Jarrett could never captivate an audience like that.
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Perhaps Vince believed Jarrett was going to go over the way he was expecting the business to be. Maybe he didn't count on the direction of the business changing the way it did by the end of the 90's. I am still astonished at some of the things that caught on; things I would never expect to become popular in professional wrestling.
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There were bigger heels at that time like Rock and Hunter. If Vince expected Jarrett to be on their level, that would explain his disappointment. Jarrett wasn't bad, but he had nowhere near the charisma of someone like Rock - either in the ring or on the stick. That was extremely tough competition.
Rock was captivating. Despite being a heel, fans rallied behind the character because it and the performer were so good. Jarrett could never captivate an audience like that.
Indeed. But, just as Rock and Hunter had to overcome their "New Generation" gimmicks, Jarrett had to do the same. And the "Double J" gimmick was no easy one to shake, especially given how well it worked for him as a mid-carder (and IC champion).
Perhaps, it was the whole Debra thing as Jarrett's heat (post "Double J") came mainly because of his treatment of her. McMahon probably thought he couldn't be a big heel without her (especially since the fans loved her, in spite of Jarrett).
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Indeed. But, just as Rock and Hunter had to overcome their "New Generation" gimmicks, Jarrett had to do the same. And the "Double J" gimmick was no easy one to shake, especially given how well it worked for him as a mid-carder (and IC champion).
Perhaps, it was the whole Debra thing as Jarrett's heat (post "Double J") came mainly because of his treatment of her. McMahon probably thought he couldn't be a big heel without her (especially since the fans loved her, in spite of Jarrett).
I hated it when he became a Horseman, but looking back, he was a pretty good fit for the group. I liked his work in TNA.
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I hated it when he became a Horseman, but looking back, he was a pretty good fit for the group. I liked his work in TNA.
I'm just curious...
How did this make you feel?
(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p131/Class_B/Wrestling/ca30341fd36ce3558fdf67fc98189f0b_zpsd0663bbb.jpg)
;D
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I'm just curious...
How did this make you feel?
(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p131/Class_B/Wrestling/ca30341fd36ce3558fdf67fc98189f0b_zpsd0663bbb.jpg)
;D
Growing up, I used to think Sting had a great bodybuilders physique and was like just... HUGE. Looking at that photo tells me just how wrong I truly was. Even back in the UWF days, he was just "puffy big". Never really had any muscle definition or hardness to him. And those months that he wrestled with a cut off shirt on to cover up the bad gyno job he had was horrible.
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David Von Erich is someone that I simply can not watch clips of. Uggghhh... And interviews? I just cringe and hack every time he trots out that "and you can bet your bottom dollar" mantra in that hick voice.
Kerry ended up being really well built later on in the WWF(E). Never could understand how people who abused coke and crap like that could be so jacked up. It is amazing. I have a friend that his twin brother was a porn star and this dude was on massive amounts of X, heroine, meth, coke, and drank GHB by the capful throughout the day. That was on top of Vics, valium, Hydros, Oxy, and a shit load of roids and anti depressants he was doing. This dude was jacked beyond all recognition physique wise. Finally came clean last year and about 3 months died from a heart attack. (Official claim. Most likely jumped back on shit and it pulverized his heart)
I remember reading in Flair's book about his match with Kerry and Kerry was all stoned out of his head and Ric had to keep leaving the ring and bringing him back inside to finish the match.
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I hated it when he became a Horseman, but looking back, he was a pretty good fit for the group. I liked his work in TNA.
How could you NOT like this......
Here's the only WWF title shot I remember Jarrett getting:
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Growing up, I used to think Sting had a great bodybuilders physique and was like just... HUGE. Looking at that photo tells me just how wrong I truly was. Even back in the UWF days, he was just "puffy big". Never really had any muscle definition or hardness to him. And those months that he wrestled with a cut off shirt on to cover up the bad gyno job he had was horrible.
I may be completely off mark here, but Sting, like Hogan, often carried a lot of bloat common with Decadurabolin use, and it wouldn't surprise me if Stinger had a fondness for the anabolic.
Hogan admitted in the steroid trial that Deca and its cousin D-Bol were his preferred gear for many years. Lots of guys from that era used those compounds due to the appreciable amount of size they added, and for their joint pain-relief effects. The extra bloat also offered a bit of cushioning for bumps. Both compounds will aromatize (convert to estrogen) if inhibitors are not properly used.
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I'm just curious...
How did this make you feel?
(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p131/Class_B/Wrestling/ca30341fd36ce3558fdf67fc98189f0b_zpsd0663bbb.jpg)
;D
Did you REALLY have to post that pic? It makes me sick to my stomach then, just like it does now. One of the worst fits in their history if you ask me. He got his in the end though. ;D
I never did care for any of his gimmicks. Plus, he always just beat the crap out of Flair, hulked up on him, and never lost clean.
Way too silly to be a Horseman.
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Did you REALLY have to post that pic? It makes me sick to my stomach then, just like it does now. One of the worst fits in their history if you ask me. He got his in the end though. ;D
I never did care for any of his gimmicks. Plus, he always just beat the crap out of Flair, hulked up on him, and never lost clean.
Way too silly to be a Horseman.
Since the "Four Horseman" got inducted in the Hall last year, doesn't that mean that Sting, Luger, Sid, Ole Anderson, Benoit, Malenko, McMichael, et. al, are all Hall of famers, now?
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Did you REALLY have to post that pic? It makes me sick to my stomach then, just like it does now. One of the worst fits in their history if you ask me. He got his in the end though. ;D
I never did care for any of his gimmicks. Plus, he always just beat the crap out of Flair, hulked up on him, and never lost clean.
Way too silly to be a Horseman.
Nonsense. His bleached flattop/rat-tail combo made him the perfect fit!
;D
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Since the "Four Horseman" got inducted in the Hall last year, doesn't that mean that Sting, Luger, Sid, Ole Anderson, Benoit, Malenko, McMichael, et. al, are all Hall of famers, now?
NO, NO, NO!!
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And what "Double J" litany would be complete without.....
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Since the "Four Horseman" got inducted in the Hall last year, doesn't that mean that Sting, Luger, Sid, Ole Anderson, Benoit, Malenko, McMichael, et. al, are all Hall of famers, now?
No, not everyone to ever be a Horseman was inducted. Case in point: Benoit will never even have his name mentioned again in WWE, much less come anywhere near the HOF.
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No, not everyone to ever be a Horseman was inducted. Case in point: Benoit will never even have his name mentioned again in WWE, much less come anywhere near the HOF.
I'm making a point. If you induct a group, everyone associated with that group would be part of the HOF (that includes Benoit).
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Did you REALLY have to post that pic? It makes me sick to my stomach then, just like it does now. One of the worst fits in their history if you ask me. He got his in the end though. ;D
I never did care for any of his gimmicks. Plus, he always just beat the crap out of Flair, hulked up on him, and never lost clean.
Way too silly to be a Horseman.
ALWAYS HATED STINGS BITCH TITTED BUILD,,,
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I'm making a point. If you induct a group, everyone associated with that group would be part of the HOF (that includes Benoit).
Well, here's another "point" you can take up with Vince over brunch.
:)
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ALWAYS HATED STINGS BITCH TITTED BUILD,,,
But, he never had to look for cream for his coffee!
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I'm making a point. If you induct a group, everyone associated with that group would be part of the HOF (that includes Benoit).
I don't know how they arrived at the decision, but the only men specifically recognized as Horsemen at the ceremony and officially inducted into the HOF are Blanchard, Arn, Ric, Dillon, and Windham.
Again, I don't understand how and/or why Vince chose those guys specifically, but they are the only men to have received rings and have their names entered on the HOF roster as Horsemen.
Apparently, just "being" a Horseman wasn't enough to qualify. Not saying I agree or disagree with it, but that's how it is.
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But, he never had to look for cream for his coffee!
LOL...
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I don't know how they arrived at the decision, but the only men specifically recognized as Horsemen at the ceremony and officially inducted into the HOF are Blanchard, Arn, Ric, Dillon, and Windham.
Again, I don't understand how and/or why Vince chose those guys specifically, but they are the only men to have received rings and have their names entered on the HOF roster as Horsemen.
Apparently, just "being" a Horseman wasn't enough to qualify. Not saying I agree or disagree with it, but that's how it is.
That is about what it should be. I could make an argument for, and wouldn't argue against Ole and Luger (yes, Luger) but that is it.
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That is about what it should be. I could make an argument for, and wouldn't argue against Ole and Luger (yes, Luger) but that is it.
Let me explain myself before the inevitable beatdown. Luger, in my opinion was a very good Horseman. He certainly didn't need to talk that much, everyone else had that covered. He gave the Horseman that huge muscular guy to protect them. At the time Arn hadn't really developed into the Enforcer, so he made a great one. And early on, he could wrestle a little. Again if he couldn't, the others had that covered.
I think Stoppa would agree, although he is not as big of a fan as I.
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That is about what it should be. I could make an argument for, and wouldn't argue against Ole and Luger (yes, Luger) but that is it.
my opinion luger was great for what he was the 'incredible specimen'as he was referred to week after week,in shape for so long to hard to remember ,yes his matches were predictable you could see how he waited for the better performer to 'work' the match but he came through and was great heel/face.his build created his aura and the fans responded,flip the coin to an amazing technical wrestler like scott steiner who was built but reinvented himself to be 'freak'and injured/lost all his greatness and became clothsline/flex/maybe slam and cover lame win,,,frakensteiner,belly to belly,side,tiltawhirl suplex were great moves...juiced himself to ruin,,
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my opinion luger was great for what he was the 'incredible specimen'as he was referred to week after week,in shape for so long to hard to remember ,yes his matches were predictable you could see how he waited for the better performer to 'work' the match but he came through and was great heel/face.his build created his aura and the fans responded,flip the coin to an amazing technical wrestler like scott steiner who was built but reinvented himself to be 'freak'and injured/lost all his greatness and became clothsline/flex/maybe slam and cover lame win,,,frakensteiner,belly to belly,side,tiltawhirl suplex were great moves...juiced himself to ruin,,
I agree with you guys. I think that was a good role for Luger to assume for a while. It got him over much stronger than he would have on his own, and it provided a unique element to the Horsemen, which had not yet been established.
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I can't believe they picked Windham over Tully.
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I can't believe they picked Windham over Tully.
No, Tully was there; he's just so short and grey-haired you can barely tell that it was indeed he.
Ole wasn't inducted.
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If Ole wasn't such a prick in real life, he could have made a few bucks from that.
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I agree with you guys. I think that was a good role for Luger to assume for a while. It got him over much stronger than he would have on his own, and it provided a unique element to the Horsemen, which had not yet been established.
We better slow down this love for Luger a little. Stoppa liked him okay, but not as much as me, and I would hate for him to think we were short-changing Tully, and try to lay a beatdown on me.
I saw Luger at a bb show in Atlanta around 04-05, before his paralysis and really bad health for sure. He was still big, but could barely get around. He walked like an 80 year old in bad shape. It was sad.
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We better slow down this love for Luger a little. Stoppa liked him okay, but not as much as me, and I would hate for him to think we were short-changing Tully, and try to lay a beatdown on me.
I saw Luger at a bb show in Atlanta around 04-05, before his paralysis and really bad health for sure. He was still big, but could barely get around. He walked like an 80 year old in bad shape. It was sad.
sux,,had great build ,,
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We better slow down this love for Luger a little. Stoppa liked him okay, but not as much as me, and I would hate for him to think we were short-changing Tully, and try to lay a beatdown on me.
I saw Luger at a bb show in Atlanta around 04-05, before his paralysis and really bad health for sure. He was still big, but could barely get around. He walked like an 80 year old in bad shape. It was sad.
What happened to Luger? I never payed much attention to news involving him, and next thing I knew, he was in a wheelchair.
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What happened to Luger? I never payed much attention to news involving him, and next thing I knew, he was in a wheelchair.
X2
I am completely outside the loop on that one but it seems like he fell FAST and HARD
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Didn't he get some kind of infection in his body? I think that might be it.
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Didn't he get some kind of infection in his body? I think that might be it.
luger and mrs elizabeth abused drugs together ,macho man who died driving at the wheel abused drugs i'm sure with liz,,even tho she looked squeaky clean when she was with randy,,,
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Didn't he get some kind of infection in his body? I think that might be it.
Well, a quick Google search turned up this: On October 19, 2007, Luger suffered a nerve impingement in his neck that led to temporary paralysis. He underwent intravenous antibiotic treatment and was expected to make a full recovery.[96] Nearly a month after his spinal stroke, Luger was still in a quadriplegic state, having no movement in either his arms or legs. As of June 2008, Luger was said to be able to stand on his own for short periods of time and walk using a walker. As of 2010, Luger has stated in an interview that he is able to walk more comfortably, and is able to drive around after being paralyzed from the neck down before. Luger has stated in an interview he now resides in Atlanta, Georgia, and loves his family.[97]
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luger and mrs elizabeth abused drugs together ,macho man who died driving at the wheel abused drugs i'm sure with liz,,even tho she looked squeaky clean when she was with randy,,,
Yeah that would not surprise me in the least bit. I'm like u in the fact that I'm pretty sure that was the case when you add in both their histories with substance use plus that late 80s era where it was pretty rampant in the industry
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Yeah that would not surprise me in the least bit. I'm like u in the fact that I'm pretty sure that was the case when you add in both their histories with substance use plus that late 80s era where it was pretty rampant in the industry
The 80's were HORRIBLE in terms of recreational drug use and abuse; performance-enhancers, too. The 90's ushered in abuse of prescription meds, which were even more dangerous since they were "legal." Guys would pop Somas and vicodins in front of road agents backstage, and the agents were essentially powerless to stop them.
Road Warrior Hawk would have occasional "contests" with others to see who could pop the most pain pills and stay standing. He did this before a PPV match once and had to spend most of the match standing (barely) on the apron.
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The 80's were HORRIBLE in terms of recreational drug use and abuse; performance-enhancers, too. The 90's ushered in abuse of prescription meds, which were even more dangerous since they were "legal." Guys would pop Somas and vicodins in front of road agents backstage, and the agents were essentially powerless to stop them.
Road Warrior Hawk would have occasional "contests" with others to see who could pop the most pain pills and stay standing. He did this before a PPV match once and had to spend most of the match standing (barely) on the apron.
What changed all that? Or at least lessened it so much?
The Internet where everything was kinda kept more hush? Tougher rules by Vince or law enforcement in general? Or is it video games like The Honky Tonk man says?
It seems like back in those days you had to go out and make your own adventure out of boredom or maybe the machismo type culture that existed was a big factor as well.
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What changed all that? Or at least lessened it so much?
The Internet where everything was kinda kept more hush? Tougher rules by Vince or law enforcement in general? Or is it video games like The Honky Tonk man says?
It seems like back in those days you had to go out and make your own adventure out of boredom or maybe the machismo type culture that existed was a big factor as well.
I think Vince really didn't clamp down until feeling pressure from the media and law enforcement. He was trying to "go corporate" with a bunch of inmates for employees. He had to keep in mind the public perception of his company.
The steroid trial in '92 brought so much negative press and legal scrutiny, that Vince really scrambled to change the WWF's image. That's when they started pushing smaller guys like Bret and Shawn - men who used more technical abilities rather than relying on big muscles alone. Vince also geared the shows even more towards little kids with even more cheesy characters like Duke the Dumpster and Adam Bomb.
As far as I know, the prescription drug problem was addressed with the Wellness Program. After the deaths of Eddie and Benoit, Vince HAD to do something due once again to the media attacks, government probes, and now being a publicly traded company.
Supposedly, many drugs are banned, even with valid prescriptions. However, some folks within the company have claimed off the record that certain performers are given advanced notice of drug testing, giving them a chance to "miss a flight to that show," or "contract food poisoning" that sees them miss that night. They then have a chance to get clean before the next testing.
In the 80's when they started testing for cocaine and marijuana: Vince used to have Hogan's test results sent directly to his office in Stanford. ;)