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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: King Shizzo on October 01, 2014, 08:37:31 AM
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With the advent of stock purchase plans and 401k, why do some companies still feel the need to have pensions?
Why would a business continue to pay someone after they have retired? Isn't that what a paycheck is for?
And we wonder why we see layoffs and cutbacks. How about we stop paying people that do not even work for the company anymore?
Can someone please fill me in on how the armed forces, firefighters, and police retirements work?
Do they have 401k or other options besides pensions?
Are pensions dying out because of 401k?
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Dont worry with the way you are going you will most likely die from alcohol poisoning so old age and pension is the least of your problems.
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I remember my grandfather retiring from Publix with a pension. I do not believe Publix offers pensions anymore.
Did people have to pay a certain amount per check to get a pension? We all know that we obviously do for 401k.
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Over here we are auto enrolled into work based pensions where our employer matches your contribution up to a max of 4%(I think) of your pay.
I opted out, as I worked out I'd have paid in 54 grand by the time I'm 75 and it will only pay out aroun 15 grand lump sum and 100 odd quid a month. You could get a buy to let property for around a 10 grand investment and as long as it's let it will fetch near 300 quid a month after mortgage payment from now till you die, far better investment i reckon
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Pensions are basically unheard of anymore. Especially since the average employee stays at a job around 3 years last I heard. I have been at the same company for 27 years this month. I have a pension and a 401 that I contribute to. About 5 years ago they gave old timers that were grandfathered like me the choice to continue get matching on 401 or keep getting pension and they contribute nothing to 401. The pension was a better deal. I should be pretty comfy in about 8 years when I retire.
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Some companies still have pensions. They are few and far between.
Government jobs are almost always pension based.
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Over here we are auto enrolled into work based pensions where our employer matches your contribution up to a max of 4%(I think) of your pay.
I opted out, as I worked out I'd have paid in 54 grand by the time I'm 75 and it will only pay out aroun 15 grand lump sum and 100 odd quid a month. You could get a buy to let property for around a 10 grand investment and as long as it's let it will fetch near 300 quid a month after mortgage payment from now till you die, far better investment i reckon
I see. I guess the 401k has replaced the pension plan somewhat.
Why would a company take 54k from you, only to offer a 15 grand lump sum?
Maybe I misjudged pension plans? Maybe it is not free money given to people after retiring.
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the IFBB gives bodybuilders Work Pensions ??? ???
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Some companies still have pensions. They are few and far between.
Government jobs are almost always pension based.
Thats because they can't leverage a 401k correct? They don't have stocks to invest in. Right?
Although you do bring up a good point. The government is notorious for overspending and having legendary retirment packages.
Can anyone dig up some government pension plans? For congress, the senate, normal 9-5ers in the government sector?
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Thats because they can't leverage a 401k correct? They don't have stocks to invest in. Right?
Although you do bring up a good point. The government is notorious for overspending and having legendary retirment packages.
Can anyone dig up some government pension plans? For congress, the senate, normal 9-5ers in the government sector?
They can leverage what's called a 457... It's the government version of 401k
There is no stock in government, however, the 457 is built like a 401k where they take your money and invest it with other people's money to buy up private sector stock and invest it.
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Can't answer those questions..but here in France we have a tax funded pension and mandatory employer programs
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How Generous Are Federal Employee Pensions?
Andrew Biggs | September 30, 2011, 10:27 am
USA Today reports that “retirement programs for former federal workers—civilian and military—are growing so fast they now face a multitrillion-dollar shortfall nearly as big as Social Security’s.” USA Today’s figures include both pension and retiree health costs and are inclusive of military programs, so it is a broad figure. Nevertheless, it raises an interesting question: how did retirement costs for a small segment of the population grow to rival Social Security, a program designed to cover nearly all Americans? One big reason is that federal pension benefits are simply very generous relative to typical private sector plans.
for the rest of the article: http://www.aei-ideas.org/2011/09/how-generous-are-federal-employee-pensions/ (http://www.aei-ideas.org/2011/09/how-generous-are-federal-employee-pensions/)
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Boeing is taking our pension come 2016. Were already paid far more than average and we have good retirements plans and 401k/stock options, but the old timers are fucking losing their mind that Boeing decided they cant afford to continue paying so many uneducated idiots exorbitant wages AND pay for them after they retire. (majority of of our line/production workers are grade 4s and 6s maxing out at 32/hr to drill a fucking hole)
Basically, theyre shifting the burden of responsibility from the company to the employee to save for their retirement, and theyre offering a decent retirement to replace it.... but people want someone else to take care of them.
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Boeing is taking our pension come 2016. Were already paid far more than average and we have good retirements plans and 401k/stock options, but the old timers are fucking losing their mind that Boeing decided they cant afford to continue paying so many uneducated idiots exorbitant wages AND pay for them after they retire. (majority of of our line/production workers are grade 4s and 6s maxing out at 32/hr to drill a fucking hole)
Basically, theyre shifting the burden of responsibility from the company to the employee to save for their retirement, and theyre offering a decent retirement to replace it.... but people want someone else to take care of them.
x2. The company should only have to provide you with a paycheck, decent working conditions, and options for your future (which you are in charge of)
People are always wanting something for nothing.
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Pensions are basically unheard of anymore. Especially since the average employee stays at a job around 3 years last I heard. I have been at the same company for 27 years this month. I have a pension and a 401 that I contribute to. About 5 years ago they gave old timers that were grandfathered like me the choice to continue get matching on 401 or keep getting pension and they contribute nothing to 401. The pension was a better deal. I should be pretty comfy in about 8 years when I retire.
I'll have a pension from my state post secondary retirement fund ( I teach at a medium sized public college).
My dad and grandfathers all had pensions along with my uncles.
The avg CEO back in the 1980's made 30x what the avg company worker made. Now it's 400x as much or more.
By ending pensions the top 1% were better able to afford that 2nd yacht or vacation villa in the Virgin Islands.
The corporations realized you make a lot more pure profit at the top end IF you shafted the workers.
Conservative talk did their part , by constantly saying pensions and benefits were forms of socialism and welfare.
People are now tricked into actually believing this and won't have much $$ when they retire.
Most people live paycheck to paycheck and must magically think the retirement fairy will be there when they get old.
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What do the businesses profit from 401k's and pensions?
I find it hard to believe that they just give people extra money (not from a paycheck)
Do they use that money ( that the workers put in) as leverage/operating income?
What if the company goes belly up? How do you get the money you put in then?
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What do the businesses profit from 401k's and pensions?
I find it hard to believe that they just give people extra money (not from a paycheck)
Do they use that money ( that the workers put in) as leverage/operating income?
What if the company goes belly up? How do you get the money you put in then?
They can often drop the money into their own stock... often there's a certain percentage of any 401K fund that is dropped into their own stock (keeping the value at a certain level hopefully and giving them operating funds) the rest then goes towards other stocks.
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They can often drop the money into their own stock... often there's a certain percentage of any 401K fund that is dropped into their own stock (keeping the value at a certain level hopefully and giving them operating funds) the rest then goes towards other stocks.
So we are giving them more money, and hoping that it pays off in 20-30 years?
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So we are giving them more money, and hoping that it pays off in 20-30 years?
Sometimes... yes.
It isn't necessarily a bad thing though. Remember, if the place you work at is doing well, you should and would in this scenario, reap that benefit.
Now of course, you can have your Enron type places that bleed the employees dry and leave them with nothing, but realistically, they are not common incidents.
Still good to be on the lookout, just in case.
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I see. I guess the 401k has replaced the pension plan somewhat.
Why would a company take 54k from you, only to offer a 15 grand lump sum?
Maybe I misjudged pension plans? Maybe it is not free money given to people after retiring.
With our private pension you get a lump sum and the rest as a monthly payment.
If you took that 50 k and bought 5 buy to let's with a 10 k deposit on each after 25 years when the mortgages are paid off you will be collecting 2500 a month in rent or you could have spent 40 years paying in 60 grand into pension and be lucky if you get 200 quid a month.
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What do the businesses profit from 401k's and pensions?
I find it hard to believe that they just give people extra money (not from a paycheck)
Do they use that money ( that the workers put in) as leverage/operating income?
What if the company goes belly up? How do you get the money you put in then?
Companies will typically offer similar compensation for similar positions. The companies who offer pensions will pay their employees less salary than the companies who don't have pensions for their employees, so the total money paid out to employees will be similar.
With that being said, I don't think guaranteed pensions exist anymore outside of government jobs...the pensions that are offered nowadays are typically based on the company's performance. If the company does well that year, you get your full pension. If it has a bad year, you get less.
Guaranteed pensions paid out to autoworkers are partly what bankrupted the American car companies.
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With the advent of stock purchase plans and 401k, why do some companies still feel the need to have pensions?
Why would a business continue to pay someone after they have retired? Isn't that what a paycheck is for?
And we wonder why we see layoffs and cutbacks. How about we stop paying people that do not even work for the company anymore?
Can someone please fill me in on how the armed forces, firefighters, and police retirements work?
Do they have 401k or other options besides pensions?
Are pensions dying out because of 401k?
Often times, employers offer retirement plans and benefits instead of better pay. Since not everyone takes advantage of these offers, it actually saves the employer money.
Firefighters and Police personal, etc. are public employees. Public employees are usually offered PERS (Public Employees Retirement System) which is different from a 401K and which varies from state to state.
Military personal receive federal retirement based on length of service and rank/pay.
The is nothing prohibiting folks with employer provided retirement, whether public or private, from investing additional money in their own retirement via a 401K. Often the only barrier is having enough cash flow to afford this additional investment. The money you put into a 401K is taken out of your pay as pre tax dollars. You pay taxes on it when you draw it out of the account after you retire. It is required that you begin drawing money out in the year you reach 70 1/2 or you are penalized.
Many companies have scaled back on pensions. Public Employees Retirement Systems have also been reduced in many states. I don't know if 401K's have much to do with this or if it is just a result of the downturn in the economy.
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I remember my grandfather retiring from Publix with a pension. I do not believe Publix offers pensions anymore.
Did people have to pay a certain amount per check to get a pension? We all know that we obviously do for 401k.
Oregon PERS requires employees pay 6% of their pay into a retirement account. That money is currently held in a separate account from PERS and distributed at the time of retirement with a variety of options. It no longer counts towards one's monthly payout. Before someone can qualify for PERS they must have a certain number of hours worked within a year. Many public employers keep employees just below this threshold to avoid paying into their retirement.
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x2. The company should only have to provide you with a paycheck, decent working conditions, and options for your future (which you are in charge of)
People are always wanting something for nothing.
The job market is more competitive during flush times than it is in lean times. Wages and benefits are driven by this. Employers, whether private or public only pay as much as they have to in order to attract qualified personnel. Whether it's wages or benefits makes little difference to employers, it is all considered employee costs.
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The average Social Security award is a little over $15K a year. It would be pretty difficult for anyone to survive today on such a meager amount of money. This is why folks are encouraged to save or invest for their own retirement. Unfortunately, the bulk of the population fail to do this. The average retirement savings in the U.S. is currently less then $20K with a large sector having less then $5k in retirement savings. Personally, I would barely make it a month on 5K.
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On and on and on. And on again.
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I put 10 years in the Florida Court System. I will get about 600 a month when I decide to take it.
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Firefighter and police retirements are state retirement plans.
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The average Social Security award is a little over $15K a year. It would be pretty difficult for anyone to survive today on such a meager amount of money. This is why folks are encouraged to save or invest for their own retirement. Unfortunately, the bulk of the population fail to do this. The average retirement savings in the U.S. is currently less then $20K with a large sector having less then $5k in retirement savings. Personally, I would barely make it a month on 5K.
What's funny about this is I've learned the ones showing off how much money they have have the least amount saved. I'm glad my parents were immigrants and taught me about saving!
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On and on and on. And on again.
It's not my problem that some of you have the attention span of a gnat.
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My employer pay both
$ 10.75 to my pension
$ 3.50 to my 401k
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It's not my problem that some of you have the attention span of a nat.
Its gnat.
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My employer pay both
$ 10.75 to my pension
$ 3.50 to my 401k
I assume you are speaking hourly. What percentage of you income do they pay? Where I worked the employer paid around 8% and the employee contribution was set at 6%. Employer contributions vary depending on a variety of conditions.
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I assume you are speaking hourly. What percentage of you income do they pay?
Hourly
What do you mean ?
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Its gnat.
Thanks for catching my error.
It's, it's for it is, BTW.
"Its vs. It’s
Rule 1: When you mean it is or it has, use an apostrophe.
Examples:
It’s a nice day.
It’s your right to refuse the invitation.
It’s been great getting to know you.
Rule 2: When you are using its as a possessive, don’t use the apostrophe.
Examples:
The cat hurt its paw.
The furniture store celebrated its tenth anniversary.
Note: From what we understand, the possessive was also written it’s until a couple of hundred years ago. While we don’t know for certain, it is possible that the apostrophe was dropped in order to parallel possessive personal pronouns like hers, theirs, yours, ours, etc.”
http://data.grammarbook.com/blog/pronouns/1-grammar-error/
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Thanks for catching my error.
It's, it's for it is, BTW.
Its vs. It’s
Rule 1: When you mean it is or it has, use an apostrophe.
Examples:
It’s a nice day.
It’s your right to refuse the invitation.
It’s been great getting to know you.
Rule 2: When you are using its as a possessive, don’t use the apostrophe.
Examples:
The cat hurt its paw.
The furniture store celebrated its tenth anniversary.
Note: From what we understand, the possessive was also written it’s until a couple of hundred years ago. While we don’t know for certain, it is possible that the apostrophe was dropped in order to parallel possessive personal pronouns like hers, theirs, yours, ours, etc.”
I will genuinely be sad when you pass away.
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Hourly
What do you mean ?
For example, if your employer is paying $10.75 an hour and your hourly wage is $90 an hour, they are paying approximately 12% of your hourly wage into your pension fund, which is very good. Generally, employers pay into pensions as a percentage of one's wages. Obviously the higher your income is the higher your pension is going to be.
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I will genuinely be sad when you pass away.
I bet you will. ;)
When I'm gone, who's going to squabble with you over silly little grammar errors. I'd miss you too if something were to happen to you because you keep me on my toes....and there's that ever occurring gif you post on my behalf when I go into one of my long explanations.
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It's not my problem that some of you have the attention span of a gnat.
Same defense mechanism all long-winded blowhards resort to. Has to be THEM because I'm just so damn interesting. You and Basile, always a novella to make the most obvious and mundane points.
Edit your shit, Prime. Less is more. And you should probably knock off the spelling/grammar police fuckery, too. Every post you make is littered with errors folks here are usually kind enough to ignore.
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Pensions are yet another gravy train that my generation missed out on (for the most part) and will forever be paying for.
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Pensions are yet another gravy train that my generation missed out on (for the most part) and will forever be paying for.
Yeah because pensions are paid out in perpetuity ::)
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most of us here will be dead by 65 anyway so I wouldn't worry about shit like that,my mother took out funeral insurance on me when I was 18 and so far I have made it 31 yrs past that
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The better question is why do prices keep going up forcing people resort to gimmicks and Ponzi schemes to be able to afford to retire. It's no coincidence that the 401k and Credit card appeared on the scene after we left the gold standard in 1971. With constant inflation and low central bank interest rates people were forced to put money into the market instead of a traditional savings account to build wealth. If we had sound money and a real free market the cost of goods and services would decrease because businesses would be forced to extract more output from resource inputs. Competition, absent government intervention protecting monopolies, would drive prices down. Your purchasing power would actually increase every year making it possible to retire safely.
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Same defense mechanism all long-winded blowhards resort to. Has to be THEM because I'm just so damn interesting. You and Basile, always a novella to make the most obvious and mundane points.
Edit your shit, Prime. Less is more. And you should probably knock off the spelling/grammar police fuckery, too. Every post you make is littered with errors folks here are usually kind enough to ignore.
The grammar comment was a joke between Shizzo and me. Where is your sense of humor? If my posts are too long for your reading comprehension abilities, don't read them. This won't bother me one bit.
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Even government pensions will be gone by 2020... count on it.
401k's and IRA's were designed for Wall Street, by Wall Street to skim you. The funds take 2-5% of your money annually... that adds up to big bucks for these companies and fund managers and leaves you with a lot less by the time you retire. Notice how the stock market started to take off after 1980... this is mainly because 401k money was pouring into the market.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/17/DJIA_historical_graph.svg)
This next market crash is going to make 1929 look like a picnic... it's coming soon.
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The grammar comment was a joke between Shizzo and me. Where is your sense of humor? If my posts are too long for your reading comprehension abilities, don't read them. This won't bother me one bit.
Nothing at all to do with Shizzo's post; you do this more than anyone should. Especially considering how often you misspell and butcher writing mechanics. It's unnecessary and prickish. And you're oblivious to humor so I really can't take that seriously; I'm sure you'll understand.
But please explain this: Why do painfully overwrought bores like you always blame criticism on short attention spans and poor reading comprehension? Is it the least bit possible that maybe your audience isn't the problem? Perhaps pouring your uninteresting (and often irrelevant) life experiences into every post is a bit tedious for the reader. Not like I'm the first to suggest this.
I was pretty ok with you for a while, but you've become increasingly bitter and boring as fuck. If I read another meaningless 'What doesn't kill you makes you stronger' or 'Time heals all wounds'-type cliche' from you, I'm gonna kick a puppy. And that's on you.
Have a wonderful evening.
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Nothing at all to do with Shizzo's post; you do this more than anyone should. Especially considering how often you misspell and butcher writing mechanics. It's unnecessary and prickish. And you're oblivious to humor so I really can't that that seriously; I'm sure you'll understand.
But please explain this: Why do painfully overwrought bores like you always blame criticism on short attention spans and poor reading comprehension? Is it the least bit possible that maybe your audience isn't the problem? Perhaps pouring your uninteresting (and often irrelevant) life experiences into every post is a bit tedious for the reader. Not like I'm the first to suggest this.
I was pretty ok with you for a while, but you've become increasingly bitter and boring as fuck. If I read another meaningless 'What doesn't kill you makes you stronger' or 'Time heals all wounds'-type cliche' from you, I'm gonna kick a puppy. And that's on you.
Have a wonderful evening.
Please don't kick any puppies. I wouldn't want to think I drove you to violence against an innocent puppy.
Hope your evening goes well too.
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Even government pensions will be gone by 2020... count on it.
401k's and IRA's were designed for Wall Street, by Wall Street to skim you. The funds take 2-5% of your money annually... that adds up to big bucks for these companies and fund managers and leaves you with a lot less by the time you retire. Notice how the stock market started to take off after 1980... this is mainly because 401k money was pouring into the market.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/17/DJIA_historical_graph.svg)
This next market crash is going to make 1929 look like a picnic... it's coming soon.
This is why I do my own IRA and it only cost me $7 a trade when I but or sell stocks within the IRA. I do better myself at picking stocks than when I use to have companies do it for me and they get 2% of my money.
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I have several retirement accounts which I am required by law to draw funds out of beginning this next year or I have to pay penalties. -Doesn't seem right to me to get dinged for saving/investing money for a rainy day.
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Yeah because pensions are paid out in perpetuity ::)
Yeah because that's the point I was making. ::)
It doesn't matter though because Barry Obama has decided to punish white devils like me. We'll all be dead from Ebola soon.
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Thanks for catching my error.
It's, it's for it is, BTW.
Its vs. It’s
Rule 1: When you mean it is or it has, use an apostrophe.
Examples:
It’s a nice day.
It’s your right to refuse the invitation.
It’s been great getting to know you.
Rule 2: When you are using its as a possessive, don’t use the apostrophe.
Examples:
The cat hurt its paw.
The furniture store celebrated its tenth anniversary.
Note: From what we understand, the possessive was also written it’s until a couple of hundred years ago. While we don’t know for certain, it is possible that the apostrophe was dropped in order to parallel possessive personal pronouns like hers, theirs, yours, ours, etc.”
Its spelt plagiarism.
http://data.grammarbook.com/blog/pronouns/1-grammar-error/
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Its spelt plagiarism.
http://data.grammarbook.com/blog/pronouns/1-grammar-error/
dont encourage him ffs :o
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Nope. All about investing in property for a return from rental income in my opinion.
I'd rather have 3 houses all paying me 900-1k a month each when i'm 60.
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Nope. All about investing in property for a return from rental income in my opinion.
I'd rather have 3 houses all paying me 900-1k a month each when i'm 60.
Can be a pain in the ass, from deadbeat tenants to keeping up with maintenance on the properties.
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This is another one of those stupid threads that Shizzo starts so he can, on page 10, talk about how awesome he is, how he "drives traffic" to getbig and how all of his threads get 10 pages or more.
In before the brag.
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This is another one of those stupid threads that Shizzo starts so he can, on page 10, talk about how awesome he is, how he "drives traffic" to getbig and how all of his threads get 10 pages or more.
In before the brag.
Where did this come from?
Are there things aj?
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My father, grandfather and 3 uncles all worked at a large US Naval Shipyard on submarines.
They all served in the military, went to college on GI benefits, bought their homes with VA loans and worked as engineers at the sub base for 30 years and then retired with a decent pension.
My dad and family were pretty conservative, but always believed in a strong US military and working for the Government.
You worked hard for your country and community and they took care of you and your family via a decent salary and benefits.
Today, corporate profits , driven by greedy bastards who want it to go one way...to them.
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Where did this come from?
Are there things aj?
There "are things" that I see quite a lot. And the described above is one of them. Just getting ahead of it.
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There "are things" that I see quite a lot. And the described above is one of them. Just getting ahead of it.
That is impossible. I have turned over a new leaf.
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As a taxpayer and business owner and investor in businesses, I'd hate to have to pay govt or private employees for life until they die at 80, 90, or older - people are living longer and often retiring younger. And some pensions have apparently paid as much as 50% for life to a surviving spouse. As someone said earlier, this has contributed to the demise of some US automakers.
If you don't have a pension option at work, consider putting a little aside in a better variable annuity that you can convert to "income for life" after a certain age when you're ready to retire. If the money is invested wisely within the annuity, you should build up quite a nestegg in it over several decades - particularly if you're adding to it regularly.
At that point, you can convert it to where it will pay you a guaranteed minimum for the rest of your life, even if you deplete the actual cash value. Some even offer options that will continue to pay your spouse / primary beneficiary for THEIR life. And at least one company that I know of will allow you to set it up so that the income stream will pass down generations.
Of course such bells and whistles are pretty expensive - fees on such an annuity will be on the high side. The insurance co is betting against you. There's also the possibility of insurer default - so pick your insurance companies wisely, and don't put all of your eggs in the insurance basket. This is a great tool of the rich - tax-deferred, separate from the taxable estate, skips probate, etc.
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That is impossible. I have turned over a new leaf.
where did you get this thread idea
be honest for once
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Its spelt plagiarism.
http://data.grammarbook.com/blog/pronouns/1-grammar-error/
It's called Simple Simon should get a life.
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where did you get this thread idea
be honest for once
You call me a liar, then expect me to answer your question?
Screw you buddy.
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You call me a liar, then expect me to answer your question?
Screw you buddy.
Too easy
Keep searching other sites for thread ideas retard
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Too easy
Keep searching other sites for thread ideas retard
This is the only forum (of any kind) that I visit .
Sorry that the truth hurts. Besides, how hard is it to think of something as generic as: "what is your opinion on pensions"?
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This is the only forum (of any kind) that I visit .
Sorry that the truth hurts. Besides, how hard is it to think of something as generic as: "what is your opinion on pensions"?
Do you think I'm going to answer that
Screw you buddy
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As a taxpayer and business owner and investor in businesses, I'd hate to have to pay govt or private employees for life until they die at 80, 90, or older - people are living longer and often retiring younger. And some pensions have apparently paid as much as 50% for life to a surviving spouse. As someone said earlier, this has contributed to the demise of some US automakers.
If you don't have a pension option at work, consider putting a little aside in a better variable annuity that you can convert to "income for life" after a certain age when you're ready to retire. If the money is invested wisely within the annuity, you should build up quite a nestegg in it over several decades - particularly if you're adding to it regularly.
At that point, you can convert it to where it will pay you a guaranteed minimum for the rest of your life, even if you deplete the actual cash value. Some even offer options that will continue to pay your spouse / primary beneficiary for THEIR life. And at least one company that I know of will allow you to set it up so that the income stream will pass down generations.
Of course such bells and whistles are pretty expensive - fees on such an annuity will be on the high side. The insurance co is betting against you. There's also the possibility of insurer default - so pick your insurance companies wisely, and don't put all of your eggs in the insurance basket. This is a great tool of the rich - tax-deferred, separate from the taxable estate, skips probate, etc.
The "Wall Street " fund managers found a way to get a piece of every working man's paycheck didn't they ;)
Pensions, benefits and unions were the best friend the middle class worker ever had.
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The "Wall Street " fund managers found a way to get a piece of every working man's paycheck didn't they ;)
Pensions, benefits and unions were the best friend the middle class worker ever had.
I disagree on pensions and unions. They may seem to be such in the short term, but when those "friends" cause or greatly contribute to the company failing, the middle class worker must try to find another job & benefits, and perhaps even have to start over on funding his retirement.
A 401k that requires the employee to contribute something for there to be something is a much more sustainable option IMO. Why expect to automatically be paid $10k a month for life both during and after work years just because you turned a screw on an assembly line 40 hours a week for a few years?
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I disagree on pensions and unions. They may seem to be such in the short term, but when those "friends" cause or greatly contribute to the company failing, the middle class worker must try to find another job & benefits, and perhaps even have to start over on funding his retirement.
A 401k that requires the employee to contribute something for there to be something is a much more sustainable option IMO. Why expect to automatically be paid $10k a month for life both during and after work years just because you turned a screw on an assembly line 40 hours a week for a few years?
This is the reason Boeing is ending thsir pension plan
Theyre shifting it off the company once the employee ceases being productive and making it the employees responsibility.
Their retirement is still killer and they contributr a lot, but they basically said they cant afford to pay countless thousands of retired employees....
The majority of whom are paid way more than any other industry would ever offer.
Boeing will hire employees with zero education and zero skills, teach them how to drill ONE hole using ONE tool, starting at $12/hr, and in 6 years the union agreement has them making $31/hr thanks to standardized wages. They are grade 6s.
I got hired as a grade 9, as my skillset is much more robust and Boeing doesnt train anyone to do my job so they have to headhunt us. I make right around 100k/yr with OT starting out. For every 1 of me (grade 9), there is 30+ grade 6s and even more grade 4s and under.
Now, imagine having to pay the thousands of borderline retards 30/hr for 30 years, and then pay 10s of thousands of retirees 4.5k/month for the rest of their lives, many who will be retired at 50 and live to be 90.
These guys have literally no marketable skill but because of the Boeing union theyll make more in retirement than the average man does working full time.
Its not sustainable.
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I disagree on pensions and unions. They may seem to be such in the short term, but when those "friends" cause or greatly contribute to the company failing, the middle class worker must try to find another job & benefits, and perhaps even have to start over on funding his retirement.
A 401k that requires the employee to contribute something for there to be something is a much more sustainable option IMO. Why expect to automatically be paid $10k a month for life both during and after work years just because you turned a screw on an assembly line 40 hours a week for a few years?
Most employers calculate employee costs based on wages and benefits. The better the benefits, often the lower the wages.
Where I worked employees contributed in part to their own retirement. After 5 years, we were vested. Even if you changed jobs, your investment was secure unless you chose to cash out.
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I think we meed to find a happy medium between the companies and the union demands.
Boeings union basically fucks them as they wont compromise, they go around and tell everyone "dont give an inch, ever, you shouldnt have to!"
Meanwhile were paid 50% higher than anyone else.
That makes it easy for Boeing to move their lines to states like South Carolina, where they dont have a Union.
And theyve been doing that. If the unions would just compromise and realize they cant keep paying the employees more and more and opening the gap between the average worker wider and wider, theyd probably wouldnt have gotten fucked on the last contract.
But they refused to compromise, and Boeing got together with international IAM and held a vote when everone was gone on vacation, illiciting angry screams of outrage.. but hey, they refused to deal, so boeing got tired of it and fucked them. Now, they wont get shit, because they refused to compromise.
I feel unions now are so out of touch with common workers, that all they do is try to cripple the business for a couple bucks per person and they wind up shooting themsevles in thenfoot.
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Don't the employees have to vote on the contract? If employees disagree with union leaders on a wage and benefit package proposal, they should simply not supportIit with their vote.
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Don't the employees have to vote on the contract? If employees disagree with union leaders on a wage and benefit package proposal, they should simply not supportIit with their vote.
They refused to compromise, they voted down the 1st offer, then Boeing did some shady backdoor stuff with the international Union, and they set up a shady, short notice vote when everyone was gone on Christmas vacation.
They sent out notices by mail and then held the vote right around christmas time, 50% of the employees were unable to vote due to being gone and/or not receiving the notice.
Local union sued, its believed that the government body got greased, they immediately dismissed the case, and now the contract is law. The contrsct that 50% of the employees missed the vote on..
Boeing got so sick of the 'we wont budge an inch' stance that they just went around them. Their refusal to negotiate cost us our pension.
The internaional Union fucked us, but so did the local Union. We could have gotten far more had we come to the table willing to work with them. But we didnt.
They fight between each other, but in the end, neither the union nor boeing has our best interest at heart. There are secretaries at IAM making 125k/yr. Secretaries
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I've got STRS in California and a 403(b) as I work for a school district. After 30 years I should be looking at a pretty decent retirement. The 403(b) is nice as it is all pre tax. Only bad thing is the limit of what you can put in annually.
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To Shockwaves point.
I worked for bell labs for a bit. They decided to sell off their printed circuit board division.
This global accounting group bought them up. Union and all.
One time the union went around during contract renewal time and marched through the halls while a customer was visiting. They marched around saying you got yours and we got ours.
The next day the president of the division said "go ahead and give them whatever they want."
3 years later he closed the door on the building and shipped everything to China, Mexico, and Canada.
Sounds like the union screwed everyone.
I had already left by the time the shutdown happened, but I had a lot of friends who got screwed.
Many of which were union ineligible.
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Another good example is the United States Post Office. It generates a profit every year and profits are increasing yearly, however, George Bush and congress got together and decided it would be a good idea to pre-fund every single employee's retirement for 75 years from day one. This is the only reason why the Post Office is in the red. Also of note, the USPS does not cost the taxpayer a dime and does not take a single dime from the federal government. The budget alloted to the USPS from the Federal government is 0 Percent.
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Most employers calculate employee costs based on wages and benefits. The better the benefits, often the lower the wages.
Where I worked employees contributed in part to their own retirement. After 5 years, we were vested. Even if you changed jobs, your investment was secure unless you chose to cash out.
What about if the company went belly-up?
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Another good example is the United States Post Office. It generates a profit every year and profits are increasing yearly, however, George Bush and congress got together and decided it would be a good idea to pre-fund every single employee's retirement for 75 years from day one. This is the only reason why the Post Office is in the red. Also of note, the USPS does not cost the taxpayer a dime and does not take a single dime from the federal government. The budget alloted to the USPS from the Federal government is 0 Percent.
It is important to note that this was a government action and not something postal workers or their union asked for. In fact, I know postal workers who argue against there being any valid reason for tying up these funds. I am glad you made the point about the post office not operating on taxpayer money. A lot of folks don't understand this.
Incidentally, one of the things hurting the post office is that the Post Master General contracts out some of their work to UPS.