Training Vs Diet % 50/50 70/30 90/10?

[Mars]

Haha.  Diet 80-90%?  Just take a look at any jail.  There are plenty of big and strong dudes who eat like shit.  But they also get a shit load of rest and have zero stress for the most part.  So who's to say recovery (most often overlooked aspect of bodybuilding) is any less important than nutrition or training.  In fact genetics being equal I'd say training and recovery are more important than nutrition.  You can't live on twinkies and expect to grow muscle.  But you sure as hell don't have to pretent the human body is a delicate flower that needs a perfect combination and ratio of nutrients, calories etc.  The body is one big filter.  Throw at it what you want and it's pretty good at using what it needs.  Most of these high protein intakes are overkill and a waste of money.  They came about through high drug use.

Let's put it this way........take two people..............have them train and rest perfectly.  Throw at them whatever the hell you want in terms of food, ratios etc.  You telling me they aren't going to grow?  Take the same two people and have them eat PERFECTLY without training and perfect recovery.  They won't build shit as far as muscle.  If it was all diet there would be lots of peope walking around with loads of muscle and strength.  

word

[Knives]

i always have a laugh when i see these stupid diets in flex, now i eat like normal people do and still maintain weight and make progress, without the monster protein intake and these shitty supplements.

i've done the same, with the same results.

yeah diet is overrated in bodybuilding also, how often you dont see guys who look great but never heard of eating protein.

very often.  how about the bodybuilders of the 70s?

[Fatpanda]

you have to remember you need food to live, you don't need training.

so food > training.

also studies show muscle mass increases with eating above maintenence and no excercise with something like 1lb for every 2-3 lbs of fat.

add training the ratio could be reversed.

add drugs the ratio rapidly changes in favour of muscle mass to fat.

also the amount of calorie excess has an effect.

its all about the variables.

[MAXX]

Haha.  Diet 80-90%?  Just take a look at any jail.  There are plenty of big and strong dudes who eat like shit.  But they also get a shit load of rest and have zero stress for the most part.  So who's to say recovery (most often overlooked aspect of bodybuilding) is any less important than nutrition or training.  In fact genetics being equal I'd say training and recovery are more important than nutrition.  You can't live on twinkies and expect to grow muscle.  But you sure as hell don't have to pretent the human body is a delicate flower that needs a perfect combination and ratio of nutrients, calories etc.  The body is one big filter.  Throw at it what you want and it's pretty good at using what it needs.  Most of these high protein intakes are overkill and a waste of money.  They came about through high drug use.

Let's put it this way........take two people..............have them train and rest perfectly.  Throw at them whatever the hell you want in terms of food, ratios etc.  You telling me they aren't going to grow?  Take the same two people and have them eat PERFECTLY without training and perfect recovery.  They won't build shit as far as muscle.  If it was all diet there would be lots of peope walking around with loads of muscle and strength.  

if anyone uses steroids it's weightlifting people in jails....

think about it... criminals, surrounded with drug dealing, fucked in the head....

[MuscleMcMannus]

if anyone uses steroids it's weightlifting people in jails....

think about it... criminals, surrounded with drug dealing, fucked in the head....

Yeah because it's so easy to smuggle in syringes and vials right? 

[MAXX]

Yeah because it's so easy to smuggle in syringes and vials right? 

yes it is. besides there are orals.

[no one]

diet - 40
gear - 40
lifting - 20

ahahahahaha

ok lumpy...

you just never learn do you? you get anally abused for 21 pages in another thread for giving out advise when you look like a fat bag of shit, but yet you seem to think that your opinion in such matters still counts for something.

i hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it does not.

judging from your pics i would say the key to your physique is a 5/5/90 split of driving to the gym but not going in, vince goodrum's bee pollen, and KFC.

[Matterhorn]

Haha.  Diet 80-90%?  Just take a look at any jail.  There are plenty of big and strong dudes who eat like shit.  But they also get a shit load of rest and have zero stress for the most part.  So who's to say recovery (most often overlooked aspect of bodybuilding) is any less important than nutrition or training.  In fact genetics being equal I'd say training and recovery are more important than nutrition.  You can't live on twinkies and expect to grow muscle.  But you sure as hell don't have to pretent the human body is a delicate flower that needs a perfect combination and ratio of nutrients, calories etc.  The body is one big filter.  Throw at it what you want and it's pretty good at using what it needs.  Most of these high protein intakes are overkill and a waste of money.  They came about through high drug use.

Let's put it this way........take two people..............have them train and rest perfectly.  Throw at them whatever the hell you want in terms of food, ratios etc.  You telling me they aren't going to grow?  Take the same two people and have them eat PERFECTLY without training and perfect recovery.  They won't build shit as far as muscle.  If it was all diet there would be lots of peope walking around with loads of muscle and strength.  

recovery aspect = very good point (even though I'm not sure if prison is so stress-free...)

this year made me rethink this whole training vs diet topic. first and foremost it's a triangle: training, diet AND recovery need to be optimal. with plenty of recovery as a basis, I give more importance to diet than training (2/3ds).

sep+oct I was out of business (change of employer, non-competition clause). during that time I got a solid 10 hours of sleep daily. I did not change my training (intensity, frequency) nor my diet.

bloody hell: I was able to add some muscle and promptly all nagging pains and little injuries healed.

but I guess, 10 hours of sleep is the privilege of the pros only...

[no one]

you have to remember you need food to live, you don't need training.

so food > training.

also studies show muscle mass increases with eating above maintenence and no excercise with something like 1lb for every 2-3 lbs of fat.

add training the ratio could be reversed.

add drugs the ratio rapidly changes in favour of muscle mass to fat.

also the amount of calorie excess has an effect.

its all about the variables.

follow his advice.

it's obvious he knows what he's talking about.

[Fatpanda]

follow his advice.

it's obvious he knows what he's talking about.

you're right, i have nothing on you 

[kiwiol]

Diet can never be more than 50%. To be exact, when it comes to building muscle, you need good genetics (although anyone can improve on their shape with proper discipline and consistency), sound training principles, adequate dietary intake of all the necessary nutrients and a proper mindset. Diet plays a big role only when you are trying to achieve contest conditioning. Otherwise, as long as you take sufficient number of calories and macronutrients, especially protein, you will be OK - getting scientific and too exact about things like grams of protein per pound of body weight is a waste of time for the average person who is looking to put on some muscle and get a bit leaner.

Diet is never more than 50%. If you say that you won't build muscle without a proper diet, you are right, although you can't also build muscle with a great diet and lame training or piss poor genetics.

[Fatpanda]

Diet can never be more than 50%. To be exact, when it comes to building muscle, you need good genetics (although anyone can improve on their shape with proper discipline and consistency), sound training principles, adequate dietary intake of all the necessary nutrients and a proper mindset. Diet plays a big role only when you are trying to achieve contest conditioning. Otherwise, as long as you take sufficient number of calories and macronutrients, especially protein, you will be OK - getting scientific and too exact about things like grams of protein per pound of body weight is a waste of time for the average person who is looking to put on some muscle and get a bit leaner.

Diet is never more than 50%. If you say that you won't build muscle without a proper diet, you are right, although you can't also build muscle with a great diet and lame training or piss poor genetics.

there was a study posted here a while ago that showed any calories above maintenence builds muscle and protein was irrelevant  i'll try to find it if anyones interested.

[kiwiol]

there was a study posted here a while ago that showed any calories above maintenence builds muscle and protein was irrelevant  i'll try to find it if anyones interested.

Forget about studies - there are tons of them out there and a lot of them contradict each other. I'm talking based on personal experience and analysis. Protein isn't irrelevant, but you don't need to take 500 grams or more, unless you are a monster who is around 300 lb at less than 15% bodyfat, like Dorian or Ronnie at their peaks. As long as you take over 1.5 grams / pound of body weight, you will be fine. And yes, if you take enough calories, your body won't need to use protein as a fuel cause it will use carbs and to a lesser extent, fat.

[JimmyTheFish]

Forget about studies - there are tons of them out there and a lot of them contradict each other. I'm talking based on personal experience and analysis. Protein isn't irrelevant, but you don't need to take 500 grams or more, unless you are a monster who is around 300 lb at less than 15% bodyfat, like Dorian or Ronnie at their peaks. As long as you take over 1.5 grams / pound of body weight, you will be fine. And yes, if you take enough calories, your body won't need to use protein as a fuel cause it will use carbs and to a lesser extent, fat.

haha ok "kiwiol" 

[kiwiol]

haha ok "kiwiol" 

Haha where have you been Jimmy? Good to see you back

[Fatpanda]

Forget about studies - there are tons of them out there and a lot of them contradict each other. I'm talking based on personal experience and analysis. Protein isn't irrelevant, but you don't need to take 500 grams or more, unless you are a monster who is around 300 lb at less than 15% bodyfat, like Dorian or Ronnie at their peaks. As long as you take over 1.5 grams / pound of body weight, you will be fine. And yes, if you take enough calories, your body won't need to use protein as a fuel cause it will use carbs and to a lesser extent, fat.

 

please re-read what i typed - during calorie excess protein is irrelevant for muscle mass gains - the study showed there was more muscle gain with the lower protein level  

you seem to be mistaking me for one of getbigs mindless majority, please don't it hurts my feelings.

[JimmyTheFish]

Haha where have you been Jimmy? Good to see you back

you as well...........hows everything my friend?

[Fatpanda]

you as well...........hows everything my friend?

he's doing great, got a new batch of test and has been hitting the iron hard 

heres that study for anyone interested:

Effects of high-calorie supplements on body composition and muscular strength following resistance training.

Seventy-three healthy, male subjects randomly divided into 3 groups participated in a study to determine the effects of 2 high-calorie nutritional supplements on body composition, body segment circumferences, and muscular strength following a resistance-training (RT) program. METHODS: In addition to their normal diets group 1 (CHO/PRO; n=26) consumed a 8.4 Mj x day(-1) (2010 kcal) high calorie, high protein supplement containing 356 g carbohydrate and 106 g protein. Group 2 (CHO; n=25) consumed a carbohydrate supplement that was isocaloric with CHO/PRO. Group 3 (CTRL; n=22) received no supplement and served as a control. All subjects were placed on a 4-day x week(-1) RT program for 8 weeks. RESULTS: Dietary analysis revealed no significant differences in total energy consumption or nutrients at any time in the non-supplemented diets of the 3 groups. Significant (p= or <0.05) increases in body mass (BM) and fat-free mass (FFM) were observed in CHO/PRO and CHO compared to CTRL. Mean (+/- SD) increases in BM were 3.1+/-3.1 kg and 3.1+/-2.2 kg, respectively. Fat-free mass significantly (p= or <0.05) increased 2.9+/-3.4 kg in CHO/PRO and 3.4+/-2.5 kg in CHO. Muscular strength, as measured by a one-repetition maximum in the bench press, leg press, and lat-pull down increased significantly (p= or <0.05) in all groups. No significant differences in strength measures were observed among groups following training. CONCLUSIONS: Results indicate that high-calorie supplements are effective in increasing BM and FFM when combined with RT. However, once individual protein requirements are met, energy content of the diet has the largest effect on body composition.

[kiwiol]

you as well...........hows everything my friend?

Not bad. Times have changed and I'm just going with the flow. I mainly troll the G&O now, cause it's not political like the alpha boards and there's a lot more posters and materials to work with. I remember when we were fighting guys like TomR, The Luke and the shadow - good times

[JimmyTheFish]

Not bad. Times have changed and I'm just going with the flow. I mainly troll the G&O now, cause it's not political like the alpha boards and there's a lot more posters and materials to work with. I remember when we were fighting guys like TomR, The Luke and the shadow - good times

haha yes fun shit.........should bring it back, this place needs it lately

[kiwiol]

he's doing great, got a new batch of test

This is what I was talking about in the other thread. And dude, no offense, but you really shouldn't be giving out advice on anything that's related to training or nutrition

[Fatpanda]

This is what I was talking about in the other thread. And dude, no offense, but you really shouldn't be giving out advice on anything that's related to training or nutrition

at least you can take a joke, unlike some around here.

i would carry the training and nutrition boards, but there are 'some' knowledgeable people who do a good job already. havn't you read my posts ? 

[JimmyTheFish]

at least you can take a joke, unlike some around here.

i would carry the training and nutrition boards, but there are 'some' knowledgeable people who do a good job already. havn't you read my posts ? 

ok 'guru' 

[no one]

This is what I was talking about in the other thread. And dude, no offense, but you really shouldn't be giving out advice on anything that's related to training or nutrition

ahahahahahaha

this simpleton thinks he knows all.

funny how his 'physique' really displays the wealth of knowledge he has amassed thru his years of vigorous training.

[kiwiol]

at least you can take a joke, unlike some around here.

i would carry the training and nutrition boards, but there are 'some' knowledgeable people who do a good job already. havn't you read my posts ? 

No mate, I never read or post in those boards. Never have. I am not interested in discussing training and nutrition so much as I am in trolling and discussing competitive bodybuilding. I was into all that stuff back in the 90s and you really only need to find what works for you and stick with it. I'm yet to hit a plateau or slow down in gaining, not to mention I love working out and eating the way I do. So I don't really look into in depth discussions on those kind of topics.