Then I realized christianity is bullshit and felt guilty no longer for victimless acts.
Is there a course of events that made you change your mind? If so, would you please share them?
Did you attend a Catholic church?
Shut up Stella.
I don't remember since It was so long ago. I went to catholic church for a short time then baptist then methodist. I don't remember the exact chain of events that led me to realizing religion is nonsense.
Do you remember the exact chain of events that led you to realizing santa claus doesn't exist?
Do you remember the exact chain of events that led you to realizing santa claus doesn't exist?Actually he did, but not in the pagan American sense.
Do you mind if I ask the number of years between your "realizing religion is nonsense" and now?
How old are you (only if you wish to share)? (we can always PM)
As for Santa and I....I was quite a young child when Santa was really mentioned.....I never really believed in him as a person. My mom thought to tell us he was a real living person would be a lie. She told us he "represented the spirit of Christmas" or something....such as people giving gifts freely...etc.
In fact I asked her about my feelings about Santa today (while thinking of your post) and she said I thought he was mean because I would see kids crying on his lap in the mall. I guess I thought people dressed up as him were being mean to them to make them cry ???
It could probably have just his breath! :P....... :)
25 now and was around 15 when I realized religion was nonsense.
But is religion the same as spirituality?
I went through the whole "accepting jesus as your savior" phase. At the time I didn't think twice about it so I never realized how it made absolutely no sense. I always thought I was a sinner everytime I lied or cheated or what have you. I always felt guilty whenever i'd do the most trivial things that hurt no one.
Then I realized christianity is bullshit and felt guilty no longer for victimless acts.
So you took the easy way out? If you WERE believer then you realize that walking with the Lord is the hardest thing a Christian can do!
Admiting your beliefs are wrong and you wasted years in those beliefs isn't easy. ::)
what a miserable way to live life. :(
The thing is, if Johnny truly accepted Jesus as Savior, Johnny is saved :D
Jesus isn't saviour of anything. He(Assuming he existed) was a jew who lived about 2,000 years ago and was a preacher. That's it.
The thing is, if Johnny truly accepted Jesus as Savior, Johnny is saved :D
Wrong again, JA.
Really? Prove it.
Ahhh geez. Once saved always saved? I think thats a whole nother debate in itself.....
You prove it.
The thing is, if Johnny truly accepted Jesus as Savior, Johnny is saved :D
Now that is a nice grandgfather clause right there. So now if Johhny goes on a murdering rampage killing at will, having sex with cows and horses and stealing lying hurting everything and everyone would he still be saved because he has already checked into the airplane taking him to heaven?
What if someone has taken Jesus into his as$ and then goes about killing and murdering in the name of Jesus is he let in?
What about another man who is a philanthropist who does not believe in JFC but lives an honest life, pays his taxes, helps his employees is a good father and husband. Someone like Sri Vivekananda whose whole life is one charity and who is a transcendentalist, is he doomed to hell?
My question is:
Why do you spend so much time thinking about and posting about Christianity and religion if you believe they are nonsense?
Hi Johnny. Thanks for answering questions.
I have another for you that I asked before but didn't see your response if you did answer my question.
You implied that Christianity and religion are nonsense on another thread.
My question is:
Why do you spend so much time thinking about and posting about Christianity and religion if you believe they are nonsense?
So really, your issue is with Religion, and not GOD.
Okay, if that's true why isn't Witchery a "religion"? It's considered more of a CULT. Just my 2 cents.
By definition belief in a GOD is defined as religion.
Any belief in a supernatural power which controls human destiny is a religion. A "God" would be such a belief. Well the Christian,Jewish,Muslim God atleast.
Deism probably isn't a religion since the God in deism doesn't interfere with humans.
Okay, if that's true why isn't Witchery a "religion"? It's considered more of a CULT. Just my 2 cents.
Sorry, JA, but you keep trying to put God in a box. Can't be done, bro. Try as you might, you can't do it.
And I think we're finally getting somewhere. You've just got some serious hang-ups about religion, which tells me the source of your anger probably starts there. Again, so what happened? You've conveniently said that you don't remember when you "finally figured that this was all bull." Have you just tried to block it all out in your crusade against Christianity?
The only one putting an omnipotent being in a "Box" is you with your illogical mumbo jumbo trying to get out of the fallacies of christianity.
You state that starvation and pain and suffering exist in this world because 2 people 6,000 years ago "sinned"? And God can't fix that? If THAT isn't putting "God in a box" I don't know what the f**k is.
You state that "God works in mysterious ways" when you see bad things happening to good people. THAT isn't putting "God in a box"?
The only one putting "God in a box" would be YOU. I on the other hand realize that a "God" if such a thing existed could do ANYTHING to make the world better and if it were moral WOULD do everything to make the world better. In short if a god exists and it were a moral god,The world would not be anything like it is today.
You're limiting the power of omnipotent beings by trying to make them fit into the description in some ancient manuscripts written by goat herders 2,000 years ago! Don't talk to me about "putting god in a box" when I put absolutely no limits on the potential power of omnipotent beings.
Secondly my "hang ups" about religion stem from study into religion. I KNOW alot about religion therefor I realize it's dangerous. Christianity=Religion wether you like it or not. You are so blinded by your dogma you can't see how absurd and illogical and potentially dangerous religion actually is.
I don't know the exact date I realized religion is nonsense as I stated before. It was a gradual process. Detailed investigation into theology and history and science led me to realize religion/spiritual beliefs are absurd.
So it's a "religion" by your definition?
It is. It's called "Wicca".
Thoughts?
Any belief in a supernatural power which controls human destiny is a religion.
So it's a "religion" by your definition?
Thoughts?
Wicca n. A polytheistic Neo-Pagan nature religion inspired by various pre-Christian western European beliefs, whose central deity is a mother.Maybe I meant WITCHCRAFT. :)
Maybe I meant WITCHCRAFT. :)
Any belief in a supernatural power which controls human destiny is a religion.Witchcraft!
You're limiting the power of omnipotent beings by trying to make them fit into the description in some ancient manuscripts written by goat herders 2,000 years ago!
Tell me, what do you do with witches? :)
Exodus 22:18 "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live."
*Sigh*
The proper reply is burn them, Nazi-Bot.
I guess you have never watched Monty Python and the Holy Grail since you were to busy attending Hitler Youth Group meetings.
*Sigh*Dude, THAT WAS FUNNY! ;D
The proper reply is burn them, Nazi-Bot.
I guess you have never watched Monty Python and the Holy Grail since you were to busy attending Hitler Youth Group meetings.
JA, when you said you were once a Jesus freak, does it mean that you confessed yourself to be a sinner, you accepted Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior over your life, and that you believe God to be the true deity? Did you share this with others?
I no longer believe in any God's.
Why? Is there anyone you look up too as a role model (besides Hitler :-\)?Ummm........Grand Dragon of the KKK? :P
Hmmm. Do you think every book of the bible was written by goatherders?
I don't think your "detailed investigation into theology and history" was very thorough :-\
STella it's like this:
I used to sell expensive vacuums door to door. A lot of people bought them. But every once in awhile you get a customer who got bad service and will do ANYTHING to make sure other people don't have the same thing happen. Of course there are others that have gotten great service and recommend the cleaner.
Johnny is the guy who got BAD SERVICE! ;D
Because religion is dangerous. Case in point September 11th 2001. This was due to religion. Over 2,000 people died because of religion and it's nonsense.
Religion isn't based on a foundation of logic and reason so the people who believe in it by definition aren't logical or reasonable. You could even say they are mentaly ill. Religion is like neurosis. Anyone who believes in some magical being who made the world and watches over us all and believes some old book which is actually composed of dozens of books by various random authors is the "word of God" CAN'T be sane!
Note: I will be using the word "spirituality" and not "religion" in this post, as I seriously dislike the negative connotations that come with that word.
Please do not misunderstand me to think that I am "jumping on Johnny's side" here. I disagree with the kid about many things (specifically his political beliefs and lack of respect for humanity as a whole).
But I have to respond to this...do you believe the Bible was written as an exact account of the way things were and are supposed to be?
Do you belive the Bible was written by true contemporaries of Jesus? Are you aware that Luke, the first book detailing aspects of Jesus' life, was not even written until 80 years after his death? Do you know how much a story can change by word of mouth over 80 years?
Are you aware that the current Bible was not even formed until the Council of Nicea, 323 years after Jesus' death? Are you aware that many books that were part of early Christian doctrine were deemed "heretical" and ordered to be destroyed, yet some survived that seriously challenge many of the things said in the King James Bible? Do a search on the Nag Hammadi texts.
Are you aware that the original books of the New Testament were written in Aramaic, a dead language so commonly mistranslated and misunderstood that even Bible scholars can tell you many of the things written in the contemporary Bible may be different than they were originally intended to be?
These are things that I believe are worthy of exploration, especially by Christians. If you are going to be something, don't you want to understand it for what it truly is and where it really came from? Blindly accepting something just because someone told you that's the way it is or was is very dangerous, IMO.
So that I am not being misunderstood, I will say this. I am a spiritual person. I believe in God.
But, growing up, I found it too hard to accept many of the things I was being told. I believe, by "trying to make sense of it all" I am stronger in my belief now than I was growing up and going to Sunday School every week. I understand that we cannot find the answers to everything. Some things are just the will of a higher power in my opinion.
But the same thing can be said for science, math, biology, etc. Why does F=ma? Why does e=mc^2? Why does 1+1=2? I mean, can anyone really explain those things, at the very core of what they are? No, they just are what they are. I don't know...whoever made this all happen just decided that's how it's going to be, and that's the way it is...
Spiritualists need not be so scared of science, science need not be so scared of spirituality. After some of the things I've learned and studied, I honestly believe there is a very spiritual side to science. There are just too many things in this world that are so perfectly alligned (from a scientific and/or mathematical point of view) for me to believe that the universe "just happened". I touched on that in another thread...
Why? Is there anyone you look up too as a role model (besides Hitler :-\)?
Of course....I look up to alot of people but I don't have any "role models".
Carl Sagan.
Charles Darwin
Albert Einstein
Issac Newton
Stephen Hawking
ect..
ect...
But the same thing can be said for science, math, biology, etc. Why does F=ma? Why does e=mc^2? Why does 1+1=2? I mean, can anyone really explain those things, at the very core of what they are? No, they just are what they are. I don't know...whoever made this all happen just decided that's how it's going to be, and that's the way it is...
need not be so scared of science, science need not be so scared of spirituality. After some of the things I've learned and studied, I honestly believe there is a very spiritual side to science. There are just too many things in this world that are so perfectly alligned (from a scientific and/or mathematical point of view) for me to believe that the universe "just happened". I touched on that in another thread...
I used to do Carl Sagans landscaping when I was younger. Dude was a nice guy but very reclusive and weird, he couldn't look me straight in the eye when I or anyone else talked to him!
Explaining why the universe is the way it is, is being discovered everyday in new physics. Look into M-Theory or String Theory as far as to why our physical laws are the way they are in this universe.
Secondly you brought up "perfectly alligned"? This is the "fine tuning argument" for a God. It's flawed. Since you like looking things up yourself look that up also to spare me explaining it to you.
Sagan suffered from myelodysplasia later in his life(why he died) and he was on medical watch during that time, Which is why he stayed at home alot.
However I find it hard to believe what you say about him since I met him prior to his death and he was very upright and polite and intelligent.
Hmm, I looked M-theory up but couldn't really find anything that directly relates it to explaining the origins of physical laws. Perhaps you could provide a link?
I also see that it is highly disputed even in the scientific community, as it's purely theoretical and not backed by any experimental evidence. I'm not necessarily using this as an argument for my case; it's mostly just an observation. Even the relativity equation is disputed in many circles, so that was probably a bad example to use for the point I was trying to make in my previous post. However, I guess the point I'm making now is that even science relies on "faith" to a certain extent.
[Just an interesting tidbit, Ed Witten apparently stated that the M stands for "Magic, mystery, or matrix according to taste."]
Also, his argument for the possibility of existence of other worlds (or other dimensions of reality in the writings of some) is something I found common to many arguments against fine-tuning. I guess my answer is, why is it so hard to believe that if God made this universe he wouldn't create others? I'm hardly conceited or ignorant enough to believe that we are the only form of life that could possibly exist. And even so, accepting the idea that other worlds exist, how does that prove that whatever created this universe wasn't behind those, as well? I don't really see how that refutes the idea that something created this world and all of the others out there.
Please understand that I am not trying to be close-minded here. I just don't personally believe that existence as we know it came from nothingness. No amount of science has ever been able to back up such a claim.
Let me ask you this: what is your explanation for how the universe began? Can you actually comprehend the idea that something came from absolutely nothing (I mean really thinking about that concept very hard) and still believe that that's possible?
Johnny,
Did "time" have a point of origin? (this is not some loaded question, i really do want to read your answer)
Please explain.
How? why? etc.
thank you.
What science relies on "faith"?
Please explain.
How? why? etc.
thank you.
You have "Faith" is scientists to find answers don't you?
Don't know.
Then how do you know it did?
I would think that there had to be time before the BIG bang.
I heard someone say time is infinite in both directions, past and future.
That's kind of what i was eluding to earlier in the evolution post about the linier conecpt of time and the posibility of God's creations outside the traditional framework of time. If time wasn't real before the Big bang then some thing's creation might not be influfnced by time even through there was a sequence to it's development. And yah yah yah yah, no need to go into the whole facts, evidence blah blah blah. this is about time not evolution.
Infact I lied about not knowing about not knowing if time had a beginning just to bait you into letting your defense down so I could get something constructive out of you.