Author Topic: 16 for '16: The Most Talked-About Potential GOP Presidential Candidates  (Read 182012 times)

Dos Equis

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Re: 16 for '16: The Most Talked-About Potential GOP Presidential Candidates
« Reply #1400 on: March 14, 2016, 01:12:24 PM »
You sure it had nothing to do with his blatant lying and dumbassery?  ???

Of course not. 

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Re: 16 for '16: The Most Talked-About Potential GOP Presidential Candidates
« Reply #1401 on: March 14, 2016, 07:41:17 PM »
You sure it had nothing to do with his blatant lying and dumbassery?  ???

the fake popeye robbery lol - - - -- what a liar Carson turned out to be.

crazy stupid lies, too.  Just making up parables to explain his feelings on issues, all day long.

definitely had a disconnect from reality.  And all the meds didn't help.  You could tell he UP'd the antidepressant dose when he got in the national spotlight.  He was stoned all the time.

I pity the zealot loyalists that left brains at home and supported Carson.

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Re: 16 for '16: The Most Talked-About Potential GOP Presidential Candidates
« Reply #1402 on: March 14, 2016, 07:50:49 PM »
HAHAHAHA the fact that Carson turned out to be a compulsive liar didn't affect the way voters viewed him?  HAHAHAHAHAHA

Yeah.  Right.  Anyone dumb enough to defend Carson is probably dumb enough to believe that too.

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Re: 16 for '16: The Most Talked-About Potential GOP Presidential Candidates
« Reply #1403 on: March 14, 2016, 09:12:55 PM »
HAHAHAHA the fact that Carson turned out to be a compulsive liar didn't affect the way voters viewed him?  HAHAHAHAHAHA

Yeah.  Right.  Anyone dumb enough to defend Carson is probably dumb enough to believe that too.

they excuse the lies because he's religious.  "he must have his reasons".

LurkerNoMore

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Re: 16 for '16: The Most Talked-About Potential GOP Presidential Candidates
« Reply #1404 on: March 15, 2016, 07:01:59 AM »
they excuse the lies because he's religious.  "he must have his reasons".

It's God's Will that he doesn't tell the truth.

TuHolmes

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Re: 16 for '16: The Most Talked-About Potential GOP Presidential Candidates
« Reply #1405 on: March 15, 2016, 08:21:46 AM »
The only thing that bugs me about Carson is that it "appears" that his endorsement was bought and paid for.


http://www.mediaite.com/election-2016/ben-carson-wishes-hed-endorsed-someone-else-says-trump-offered-him-admin-post/

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Re: 16 for '16: The Most Talked-About Potential GOP Presidential Candidates
« Reply #1406 on: March 15, 2016, 08:36:51 AM »
The only thing that bugs me about Carson is that it "appears" that his endorsement was bought and paid for.


http://www.mediaite.com/election-2016/ben-carson-wishes-hed-endorsed-someone-else-says-trump-offered-him-admin-post/


but he said at least if trump wins, it'll only be 4 years of damage.

carson, palin... really a big mess surrounding trump here.

Dos Equis

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Re: 16 for '16: The Most Talked-About Potential GOP Presidential Candidates
« Reply #1407 on: March 16, 2016, 12:32:46 PM »
Rubio suspends campaign:



Great speech. 

That said, this is a pretty spectacular failure.  So much promise.  A slew of endorsements.  A ton of talent.  Golden opportunity.  The best person to face Hillary in November.  Wasted it.  He can now write a book on how to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. 

Dos Equis

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Re: 16 for '16: The Most Talked-About Potential GOP Presidential Candidates
« Reply #1408 on: March 16, 2016, 12:34:40 PM »
So now Trump is encouraging anarchy.  Dangerous times people.

Trump Warns 'You'd Have Riots' If He Loses Nomination With Delegate Lead

Image: Trump Warns 'You'd Have Riots' If He Loses Nomination With Delegate Lead 
Wednesday, 16 Mar 2016

Donald Trump predicted “riots” if Republican power-brokers deny him the presidential nomination in Cleveland even if he's leading in the delegate count.

The billionaire New York developer, who prevailed in three states that voted Tuesday, held a narrow lead in Missouri and lost Ohio, is faced with the prospect of a floor fight at the Republican convention if he's leading in delegates but falls short of a majority, 1,237.

“I think we’ll win before getting to the convention, but I can tell you, if we didn’t and if we’re 20 votes short or if we’re 100 short and we’re at 1,100 and somebody else is at 500 or 400 cause we’re way ahead of everybody, I don’t think you can say that we don’t get it automatically,” Trump said on CNN on Wednesday. “I think you’d have riots.”

“I wouldn’t lead it, but I think bad things would happen,” Trump said, adding the outcome would “disenfranchise” his supporters.

Ohio Governor John Kasich deprived Trump of a sweep on Tuesday by winning the Buckeye State. Senator Marco Rubio was beaten badly by Trump in Florida and suspended his campaign.

http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/Trump-riots-GOP-convention/2016/03/16/id/719327/#ixzz43607qgDY

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Re: 16 for '16: The Most Talked-About Potential GOP Presidential Candidates
« Reply #1409 on: March 16, 2016, 12:36:03 PM »
Rubio suspends campaign:



Great speech. 

That said, this is a pretty spectacular failure.  So much promise.  A slew of endorsements.  A ton of talent.  Golden opportunity.  The best person to face Hillary in November.  Wasted it.  He can now write a book on how to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. 

What are you talking about?  He's always been a whiney speaker.  Never taken seriously.  He only has a job in Florida because of he's Cuban and got Latin vote there.  People fail to realize that Latino is not Latino.  Mexicans don't care about Cubans and thinking just because he speaks their language that they would vote is a big mistake. 

TuHolmes

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Re: 16 for '16: The Most Talked-About Potential GOP Presidential Candidates
« Reply #1410 on: March 16, 2016, 12:38:57 PM »
His base is eating this up.

They love this guy.

I hope now that Rubio is out that Kasich or Cruz also bow out and let someone else have those delegates.

Side note. Saw one of Trump's constituents on CNN talk about how Cruz wasn't a natural born citizen.

Sheesh.

 
So now Trump is encouraging anarchy.  Dangerous times people.

Trump Warns 'You'd Have Riots' If He Loses Nomination With Delegate Lead

Image: Trump Warns 'You'd Have Riots' If He Loses Nomination With Delegate Lead 
Wednesday, 16 Mar 2016

Donald Trump predicted “riots” if Republican power-brokers deny him the presidential nomination in Cleveland even if he's leading in the delegate count.

The billionaire New York developer, who prevailed in three states that voted Tuesday, held a narrow lead in Missouri and lost Ohio, is faced with the prospect of a floor fight at the Republican convention if he's leading in delegates but falls short of a majority, 1,237.

“I think we’ll win before getting to the convention, but I can tell you, if we didn’t and if we’re 20 votes short or if we’re 100 short and we’re at 1,100 and somebody else is at 500 or 400 cause we’re way ahead of everybody, I don’t think you can say that we don’t get it automatically,” Trump said on CNN on Wednesday. “I think you’d have riots.”

“I wouldn’t lead it, but I think bad things would happen,” Trump said, adding the outcome would “disenfranchise” his supporters.

Ohio Governor John Kasich deprived Trump of a sweep on Tuesday by winning the Buckeye State. Senator Marco Rubio was beaten badly by Trump in Florida and suspended his campaign.

http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/Trump-riots-GOP-convention/2016/03/16/id/719327/#ixzz43607qgDY

Dos Equis

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Re: 16 for '16: The Most Talked-About Potential GOP Presidential Candidates
« Reply #1411 on: March 16, 2016, 12:40:17 PM »
Current delegate count:

Trump - 662
Cruz - 408
Rubio - 171
Kasich - 143
Carson - 8
Bush - 4   
Fiorina - 1
Huckabee - 1
Paul - 1

http://www.cnn.com/election/primaries/parties/republican

Dos Equis

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Re: 16 for '16: The Most Talked-About Potential GOP Presidential Candidates
« Reply #1412 on: March 16, 2016, 12:42:18 PM »
What are you talking about?  He's always been a whiney speaker.  Never taken seriously.  He only has a job in Florida because of he's Cuban and got Latin vote there.  People fail to realize that Latino is not Latino.  Mexicans don't care about Cubans and thinking just because he speaks their language that they would vote is a big mistake. 

He is an excellent debater and gives very good speeches.  He was definitely taken seriously because he got a slew of endorsements and a ton of money.  Wasted it. 

Dos Equis

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Re: 16 for '16: The Most Talked-About Potential GOP Presidential Candidates
« Reply #1413 on: March 16, 2016, 12:45:16 PM »
His base is eating this up.

They love this guy.

I hope now that Rubio is out that Kasich or Cruz also bow out and let someone else have those delegates.

Side note. Saw one of Trump's constituents on CNN talk about how Cruz wasn't a natural born citizen.

Sheesh.

 

I doubt Kasich quits.  He should, but it's a hard sell after yesterday.

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Re: 16 for '16: The Most Talked-About Potential GOP Presidential Candidates
« Reply #1414 on: March 16, 2016, 01:04:40 PM »
I doubt Kasich quits.  He should, but it's a hard sell after yesterday.

The GOP powers don't want Cruz or Kasich out.  They need people to take delegates away from trump to ensure he doesn't get past 1200

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Re: 16 for '16: The Most Talked-About Potential GOP Presidential Candidates
« Reply #1415 on: March 16, 2016, 01:12:45 PM »
The GOP powers don't want Cruz or Kasich out.  They need people to take delegates away from trump to ensure he doesn't get past 1200
If the GOP really wanted to, they could just stop Trump at any time and revoke his party membership.  Its happened before.  If they read their rule book, (I suspect they probably haven't), they could easily do away with him from their party if they wanted and don't have to play any games.

http://bristowbeat.com/news/local-republicans-revoke-scott-jacobs-membership-party/

Local Republicans Revoke Scott Jacobs’ Membership in their Party

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Re: 16 for '16: The Most Talked-About Potential GOP Presidential Candidates
« Reply #1416 on: March 16, 2016, 01:27:21 PM »
Current delegate count:

Trump - 662
Cruz - 408
Rubio - 171
Kasich - 143
Carson - 8
Bush - 4   
Fiorina - 1
Huckabee - 1
Paul - 1

http://www.cnn.com/election/primaries/parties/republican
Rubio has the option of giving his delegates to someone else correct?

Dos Equis

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Re: 16 for '16: The Most Talked-About Potential GOP Presidential Candidates
« Reply #1417 on: March 16, 2016, 01:28:46 PM »
The GOP powers don't want Cruz or Kasich out.  They need people to take delegates away from trump to ensure he doesn't get past 1200

Definitely plausible. 

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Re: 16 for '16: The Most Talked-About Potential GOP Presidential Candidates
« Reply #1418 on: March 16, 2016, 01:31:01 PM »
Rubio has the option of giving his delegates to someone else correct?

Here is a good summary:

Who Gets Marco Rubio’s Delegates?
March 15, 2016   
By Anthony Bennett 

With Florida called within minutes for Donald Trump, Florida native and Senator Marco Rubio has suspended his campaign. Without a true mathematical path to the nomination, his only hope was to deny Trump a delegate majority and come away the leader at the convention, a very doubtful proposition after failing to carry his home state. With Rubio’s dropping out, though, what would happen to the 163 delegates Rubio picked up through small-state wins and strong early showings?

Delegates from a dropped-out candidate become free to elect the candidate of their choice at the convention. However, there’s a significant difference between “suspending” and formally ending a campaign in a contested convention, in that the candidate can re-enter the race and reclaim his delegates. If Trump fails to secure the nomination on the primary trail, Rubio could re-activate his campaign and reclaim his delegates.

Here’s what you need to know:

Dropped Delegates Become Free Agents

When a candidate drops out of the race, any delegates he picked up along the race become “unbound,” and are essentially free to vote for the candidate of their choice at the convention. This means that, should Trump fail to seize a majority of delegates, the 163 “free agents” would wield significant power at the convention, as they represent more than 13% of the 1,237 needed for a majority.

Should Rubio drop out, though, this is cold comfort for establishment Republicans. As hard as they’ve worked to stop Trump, they don’t have much more regard for runner-up Ted Cruz. Ohio governor John Kasich may be an appealing alternative, but with only a possible win in his home state, he’s unlikely to seize momentum, and has his own problem of staying in the race. Rubio’s campaign advisor Avik Roy, for his part, has thrown his support behind Cruz:

Suspension vs. Dropping Out: a Critical Distinction

Most candidates suspend a campaign rather than dropping out completely, two terms which are synonymous in common use but differ substantially by the law. This is typically a financial distinction, as suspending a campaign allows a candidate to continue to raise money, a very important capability in that losing candidates almost always end up in debt.

Should the race go to the convention, however, an even more important distinction comes into play. Suspended candidates retain their delegates, meaning that Rubio could re-enter the race with at least 10% through the first three ballots. Even if he doesn’t decide to chase the nomination after previously bowing out, Rubio’s influence on his delegates could make him broker of an enormously influential deal.

http://heavy.com/news/2016/03/marco-rubio-who-gets-delegates-drop-out-polls/

TuHolmes

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Re: 16 for '16: The Most Talked-About Potential GOP Presidential Candidates
« Reply #1419 on: March 16, 2016, 01:47:53 PM »
Ah... I get it.

Makes sense... Operation keep them from Trump is in full effect.

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Re: 16 for '16: The Most Talked-About Potential GOP Presidential Candidates
« Reply #1420 on: March 16, 2016, 01:54:06 PM »
Rubio suspends campaign:



Great speech.  

That said, this is a pretty spectacular failure.  So much promise.  A slew of endorsements.  A ton of talent.  Golden opportunity.  The best person to face Hillary in November.  Wasted it.  He can now write a book on how to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.  

He was terrible, nothing but an Adderall taking, memorized speech giving liar. Lost his home state by almost 20 percent.  If people would not have wasted a vote on him (like you did) Ted Cruz would be in the lead right now.

http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/03/15/i-think-i-know-whats-up-with-marco-rubio/


Dos Equis

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Re: 16 for '16: The Most Talked-About Potential GOP Presidential Candidates
« Reply #1421 on: March 18, 2016, 10:30:20 AM »
Results since Super Tuesday:
983,622 = Votes for Trump
1,541,001 = Votes for other candidates

Total:
4,249,489 = Votes for Trump
7,809,337 = Votes for other candidates

Popular vote results for Florida, Ill, Ohio, NC, Mo, and DC and the totals to date:

Tuesday's results:
3,196,905 = Votes for Trump
4,499,938 = Votes for other candidates

Total:
7,446,394 = Votes for Trump
12,309,275 = Votes for other candidates

Dos Equis

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Re: 16 for '16: The Most Talked-About Potential GOP Presidential Candidates
« Reply #1422 on: March 21, 2016, 10:24:45 AM »
Republicans stain themselves by sticking with Trump
By Michael Gerson
Opinion writer
March 16, 2016

Whatever you think of Donald Trump, his political achievement is enormous, and he deserves the credit.

With no background in elected office, Trump has led the Republican presidential field for eight months. His strong plurality has proved to be demographically and geographically diverse. He has soundly beaten a series of talented, well-funded opponents. He has effectively tapped into deep-seated anger and resentment, promising the recovery of a nation that his followers regard as weak, lost and unrecognizable.

And Trump is not just winning; he is also redefining how politics is done. Out: policy speeches, white papers, paid media, the ground game. In: monologues, social media, free media, advance work on big rallies. Few politicians in history — Franklin D. Roosevelt’s mastery of radio and Ronald Reagan’s use of television come to mind — have more instinctually and effectively adapted to new communication methods.

Many Republicans now look at these undeniable successes and ask: “How far should we go for unity’s sake?” Some are beginning to make their inner peace with Trump. He will, after all, eventually need experts to advise and guide him. His Supreme Court picks are bound to be better than Hillary Clinton’s. Maybe we just need to respect the democratic will.

These justifications are not insane, but they are ultimately not persuasive. Trump has little history of changing or refining his views through study and policy advice. Many of his goals, while too foolish to implement, are too vivid to revise. Try to imagine President Trump backing down on building the great wall or halting Muslim migration.

On the Supreme Court, even well-intentioned Republican presidents have made choices that haven’t worked out quite as planned. How would Trump, lacking a serious judicial philosophy, and perhaps facing a Democratic Senate, make his decision? Consult his radically pro-choice sister, an appeals court judge? Let his prospects battle it out on a season of “Survivor”? On these matters, Trump is entirely unmoored and unpredictable. It is hard to justify a presidency, which would be dangerous and destabilizing in other ways, on odds this long.

What the argument for accommodation is missing is the core reality about Trump. His answer to nearly every problem is himself — his negotiating skill, his strength of purpose, his unique grasp of the national will. But this is more “will to power” than separation of powers; more Nietzsche than Madison. Trump is not proposing a policy debate that can be adjudicated in the normal processes of our government. He is offering himself as master of every situation. We are supposed to turn in desperation to the talent and will of one man, who happens to be bristling with prejudice and blazing with ignorance. We are seeing the offer of personal rule by someone with no discernible public or personal virtues.

Americans are discontented with the governing class, with good reason in many cases. But Trump would be the oddest answer in our history to a leadership void. He has offered disaffected people an invitation to political violence. “Knock the crap out of them, would you?” he said at one rally. “Seriously. Okay? Just knock the hell — I promise you, I will pay for the legal fees. I promise. I promise.”

And this permission for violence is paired with an embrace of ethnic and religious bigotry, casting blame and suspicion on Muslims and undocumented immigrants. It would be difficult — or should be difficult — for any Republican to endorse a presidential candidate whose election would cause many of our neighbors to fear for their safety. Or to embrace a candidate who promised to purposely target children in the conduct of the war on terrorism. Or a candidate who has praised the “passion” and patriotism of followers and has predicted riots if he doesn’t get his way at the GOP convention.

For Republicans, accommodation with Trump is not just a choice; it is a verdict. None will come away unstained. For evangelical Christians, it is the stain of hypocrisy — making their movement synonymous with exclusion and gullibility. For GOP job seekers, it is the stain of opportunism. (Consider the sad decline into sycophancy of Chris Christie.) For conservatives, it is the stain of betrayal — the equivalent of supporting George Wallace in 1968 as an authentic populist voice.

All this leaves completely horrible options: sitting the election out, supporting a third-party candidate, contemplating a difficult vote for Clinton. But these are the only honorable options. As one Republican friend wrote me of Trump: “He would destroy everything Hillary Clinton would destroy, plus one more thing: the Republican Party.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/republicans-stain-themselves-and-their-party-by-sticking-with-trump/2016/03/16/ac7b4d2c-ebae-11e5-b0fd-073d5930a7b7_story.html

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Re: 16 for '16: The Most Talked-About Potential GOP Presidential Candidates
« Reply #1423 on: March 23, 2016, 12:47:03 PM »
Delegate count after Trump takes Arizona and Cruz takes Utah:

1,237 needed

Donald Trump - 739
Ted Cruz - 465
John Kasich - 143
Marco Rubio - 166
Ben Carson - 8
Jeb Bush - 4
Carly Fiorina - 1
Mike Huckabee - 1
Rand Paul - 1

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/elections/2016/presidential-primary-caucus-results

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Re: 16 for '16: The Most Talked-About Potential GOP Presidential Candidates
« Reply #1424 on: March 29, 2016, 02:47:16 PM »
Trump's popularity nosedives in critical stretch
As he inches toward the GOP nomination, Donald Trump is becoming more and more disliked among American voters.
By Steven Shepard
03/29/16

Donald Trump speaks during a campaign rally in North Charleston, South Carolina, February 19, 2016. | Getty
 
Donald Trump wasn't wildly popular to begin with. And now he's becoming even more disliked among American voters, creating a significant threat to his chances of winning the Republican presidential nomination.

Trump is, by far, the GOP delegate leader — and the only candidate with a realistic shot at winning a majority of delegates before the July convention. But at the same time, nearly two-thirds of Americans view Trump unfavorably — and his image rating has declined since Republican voting began in February.
.
The danger for Trump is two-fold: His declining popularity is taking a toll on his standing in the 17 states that will hold primaries between now and the end of the process in early June. Losing some of these states — or even winning fewer delegates in proportional states — makes it more difficult for Trump to secure a pre-convention majority of 1,237 delegates.

That’s where Trump’s horrific poll numbers could haunt him again: If Trump misses the threshold to win the nomination outright in bound delegates, it will be more difficult to persuade unbound delegates to put him over the top if they see him as a general election disaster-in-the-making due to his high unfavorability ratings among all voters.

How bad are Trump’s image ratings? The HuffPost Pollster average of recent national polls puts Trump’s favorability at only 31 percent, while 63 percent view him unfavorably.

That’s a notable decline from late January, on the eve of the first votes in the GOP nominating process, when Trump’s average favorability rating was 37 percent, with 57 percent viewing him unfavorably.

Trump is hardly alone: Hillary Clinton and Ted Cruz are also viewed unfavorably by majorities of Americans, according to polling averages. Only John Kasich and Bernie Sanders — neither of whom has faced many negative attacks from either party — have positive image ratings.

Among Republicans, Trump’s numbers aren’t stellar, but they have been durable — even as the other GOP candidates have trained their fire on him. Polls earlier this month from CNN/ORC and Quinnipiac University show Trump’s overall favorability rating tanking, but the figures are virtually unchanged among Republicans: A little more than 60 percent view him favorably, and about a third have an unfavorable opinion of him.

But the remainder of Republican primaries — which resume next week in Wisconsin — will be held at the state level. And in a three-way race with Cruz and Kasich, the forces aiming to halt Trump’s march to the nomination will continue to chip away further at Trump’s image.

Some of the anti-Trump groups have chosen to target female Republicans, betting that Trump’s past — and some current — statements about women would alienate those voters. Data from the states that have already voted bear that out: Trump has run, on average, 7 points better among male voters than among female voters in the 17 states in which there have been entrance or exit polls.

One of the leading anti-Trump groups, Our Principles PAC, credits some of its attacks on Trump — including an ad featuring women reading some of Trump’s past quotes on women — with bringing those statements to the fore. And the group cited paid media and ground efforts to oppose Trump with hurting him in some of the states he’s lost, like Iowa.

Democratic pollster Celinda Lake said that even if those attacks don’t crush Trump in the primary, it could be difficult for him to hold female Republicans in a general election. “For women, Trump is like your worst date ever,” Lake said.

Club for Growth Action, another independent-expenditure group that has opposed Trump, has taken a more general approach, focusing mostly on Trump’s conservative apostasies on economic issues, though the group has also targeted Trump’s business record.

The Club ascribed Trump’s losses in states like Iowa and Oklahoma to its paid media efforts. (The group’s latest ad, in Wisconsin, specifically encourages anti-Trump voters there to get behind Cruz, whom the Club has endorsed, instead of Kasich.)

But attacking Trump doesn’t ensure defeat: Both the Club and Our Principles PAC spent heavily to attack Trump in states he went on to win, like Florida and Illinois.

Just as trying to sink Trump’s favorability doesn’t guarantee he’ll lose, nor do high favorable ratings equal votes: Some of the best-liked candidates this election cycle have faltered when voters have picked the people they want to represent their party in November.

“Oftentimes the candidate with the highest favorability doesn’t get the highest percentage of votes,” said Republican pollster Neil Newhouse. “Ben Carson had the highest favorability. They liked him — they just wouldn’t vote for him.”

Still, Trump’s poor image ratings make him the worst of the three Republicans in a general election, polls show. And some Republican pollsters say that creates the prospect of a bitter campaign, at least when targeted to different demographic groups. For example, Clinton could use negative advertising against Trump geared toward women. Trump could try to motivate Republicans and independents by reinforcing their lack of trust in Clinton. Clinton could strike back by painting Trump as an enemy of Latinos, who are growing as a share of the electorate, in Spanish-language advertising.

“Hispanic media would be the most rippingly negative campaign you’d ever see,” predicted Whit Ayers, who polled for Florida Sen. Marco Rubio’s now-suspended campaign. “It would basically be a campaign against Darth Vader in Hispanic media — with good reason.”

But there’s also evidence that Trump’s favorability rating could rebound if he wins the nomination and Republicans rally around their standard-bearer. According to Gallup, Mitt Romney’s image ratings skyrocketed among his base after the national convention.

“Should Trump be the nominee, a lot of Republicans who have a hard time believing they would actually vote for him — once he begins to take on Hillary the same way he’s taken on Marco [Rubio], or Ted Cruz, or Kasich or Jeb Bush — they may turn,” said Newhouse, Romney’s pollster in 2012. “The great unifier among Republicans is being against Hillary Clinton — and against Barack Obama. That may help remedy some of our problems.”

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/03/trumps-popularity-nosedives-in-critical-stretch-221320#ixzz44KZVn99x