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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Wrestling Board => Topic started by: MCWAY on March 24, 2014, 07:42:00 PM
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He's being inducted as Razor. No mention or reference to the nWo whatsoever.
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Vince hates it because he can't take credit for the NWO...
Stupid to induct as razor Ramon...
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He's being inducted as Razor. No mention or reference to the nWo whatsoever.
kevin nash as diesel next? or next year.
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Vince hates it because he can't take credit for the NWO...
Stupid to induct as razor Ramon...
Not really!! Without Hall becoming Razor, there would have been no nWo. Plus, the nWo was more about Hogan turning heel. That's what really blew up the faction.
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WWE sued WCW when Hall left so that he couldnt use the Razor Ramon character. Ridiculous lawsuit saying he couldn't do the "hispanic" voice. WTF? Scott Hall was truly a great wrestler and talent, he deserves his spot no matter all his substance abuse problems.
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WWE sued WCW when Hall left so that he couldnt use the Razor Ramon character. Ridiculous lawsuit saying he couldn't do the "hispanic" voice. WTF? Scott Hall was truly a great wrestler and talent, he deserves his spot no matter all his substance abuse problems.
What was ridiculous about it? Hall was acting like Razor Ramon, not like Scott Hall. The whole nWo thing was to give the impression that then-WWF was invading WCW. Hall was calling Hogan "The Huckster" and Savage "The Nacho Man", even Ted Turner was "Billionaire Ted".
Hall and Nash were acting like Razor and Diesel, respectively. In fact, they basically had to do a promo where Bischoff asked them flat-out "Do you work for the WWF?", to which they both answered no.
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What was ridiculous about it? Hall was acting like Razor Ramon, not like Scott Hall. The whole nWo thing was to give the impression that then-WWF was invading WCW. Hall was calling Hogan "The Huckster" and Savage "The Nacho Man", even Ted Turner was "Billionaire Ted".
Hall and Nash were acting like Razor and Diesel, respectively. In fact, they basically had to do a promo where Bischoff asked them flat-out "Do you work for the WWF?", to which they both answered no.
It would be like asking Hogan not to say brother or Savage not to say oh yeah dig it. Vince is an egomaniac but he does not own a fake accent. Thats my point.
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It would be like asking Hogan not to say brother or Savage not to say oh yeah dig it. Vince is an egomaniac but he does not own a fake accent. Thats my point.
Hogan had the rights to his character, same with Savage I think. Hall did not have the rights to the Razor Ramon schtick.
Hall didn't have a Hispanic accent, until he became Razor Ramon; I don't remember a toothpick or his calling himself the bad guy, prior to 1992.
When Hall showed up on WCW TV in 1996, the implication wasn't that "Hey, Scott Hall is back!". It was "LOOK!! IT'S RAZOR RAMON". Remember his first promo that year?
"You know who I am....But, you don't know why I'm here!".
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I thought it was weird that there was no mention of NWO. That being said he def deserves to be in.
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Does Hall have a pacemaker, now?
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I thought it was weird that there was no mention of NWO. That being said he def deserves to be in.
The nWo angle was at least just as big a part of his fame as the Razor gimmick. Financially, he was more successful as nWo Scott Hall.
This is just Vince just being Vince.
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I like Scott Hall the most out of "the clique". He came across as the most honest and least bitchy member, its a pity he had the personal problems that he did. Used to love Razor Ramon when I was younger, would've been a much better choice for World Champ in '95 than Diesel.
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I was a teen at the time when a cable channel would show AWA wrestling. I remember him as "Big Scott Hall." He was in a tag team with Kurt Hennig. I was just getting into lifting and was in awe of his physique. Dude was a monster. You don't see too many guys that tall with those proportions.
(http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l142/thinlizzy21/BCF0D96C-9701-4D0E-B91A-45EA5E5214B9-11557-000022421B2A7B03_zps6ec7b035.jpg)
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Scott Hall was making wayyyyy more money with WCW and has been involved in some of the biggest storylines in the business with the NWO angle. To induct him as Razor Ramon is a JOKE and only people with no wrestling knowledge and their noses so far up WWE's ass would back that up. Hall was one of the biggest earners of the business and NOT while in WWE. Bottom line.
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Scott Hall was making wayyyyy more money with WCW and has been involved in some of the biggest storylines in the business with the NWO angle. To induct him as Razor Ramon is a JOKE and only people with no wrestling knowledge and their noses so far up WWE's ass would back that up. Hall was one of the biggest earners of the business and NOT while in WWE. Bottom line.
And that's why WCW went out of business....overpaying people who didn't produce main-event quality matches. The nWo may have started with Hall, so to speak. But, it was all about Hogan turning heel. Nobody cared about Hall prior to 1992. Otherwise, he would have been making that big money, long before he became Razor Ramon.
If (as Nash mentioned on WWE legends), they would have had Sting be the 3rd man instead of Hogan, the nWo wouldn't have had nearly the same impact.
The whole nWo gimmick was based on the perception that WWF was invading WCW. Hall was acting like Razor Ramon, period. And Nash was basically Diesel. Two of the biggest "New Generation" guys of the WWF were invading WCW; then they end up with the WWF's biggest and most iconic star, Hulk Hogan.
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And that's why WCW went out of business....overpaying people who didn't produce main-event quality matches. The nWo may have started with Hall, so to speak. But, it was all about Hogan turning heel. Nobody cared about Hall prior to 1992. Otherwise, he would have been making that big money, long before he became Razor Ramon.
If (as Nash mentioned on WWE legends), they would have had Sting be the 3rd man instead of Hogan, the nWo wouldn't have had nearly the same impact.
The whole nWo gimmick was based on the perception that WWF was invading WCW. Hall was acting like Razor Ramon, period. And Nash was basically Diesel. Two of the biggest "New Generation" guys of the WWF were invading WCW; then they end up with the WWF's biggest and most iconic star, Hulk Hogan.
The nWo's "invasion" angle was very brief compared to length of the faction's run. Once they'd recruited half of the WCW roster between the Wolf-pack and the Black & White, it became more like a gang. Hall stayed over long after ditching the accent and became more over just being himself, which is even more reason to acknowledge his WCW run.
Razor Ramon was a cheesy character created at a time when WWF's ratings were at their worst. Being the top guy in the mid-90's WWF was like being the valedictorian of summer school. The Razor gimmick was the most money and success Hall had enjoyed to that point, but it wasn't until he branched out into the edgier version of himself that he reached his largest audience and made the most money. A guy with fake gold and faker Cuban accent would have died with the rest of the "New Generation."
Scott evolved in a way that he flourished among the elite of the "Attitude Era" (I'm using that term to reference the atmosphere of wrestling at that time, in case anyone feels compelled to "correct" me that Hall was in WCW, and the AE belongs to WWE) just as Austin ditched the "Ringmaster" crap, and Hunter abandoned the aristocratic blue blood gimmick in favor of the cool HHH persona.
To fail to acknowledge Hall's accomplishments in WCW would be like inducting Austin based on his "Stunning Steve" days while ignoring his run atop the Fed.
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And that's why WCW went out of business....overpaying people who didn't produce main-event quality matches. The nWo may have started with Hall, so to speak. But, it was all about Hogan turning heel. Nobody cared about Hall prior to 1992. Otherwise, he would have been making that big money, long before he became Razor Ramon.
If (as Nash mentioned on WWE legends), they would have had Sting be the 3rd man instead of Hogan, the nWo wouldn't have had nearly the same impact.
The whole nWo gimmick was based on the perception that WWF was invading WCW. Hall was acting like Razor Ramon, period. And Nash was basically Diesel. Two of the biggest "New Generation" guys of the WWF were invading WCW; then they end up with the WWF's biggest and most iconic star, Hulk Hogan.
No...thats not why WCW went out of business and if u did your homework on the topic you would understand how and why they went out of business.
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No...thats not why WCW went out of business and if u did your homework on the topic you would understand how and why they went out of business.
I did my homework, as those statements came from former WCW guys (i.e. Booker T) and the fellows behind the scenes (i.e. JJ Dillon, who stated that WCW was getting killed on PPVs by WWE; see the 25:00 mark from the link below, part 1).
Hall's "favored nations" contract was another stupid idea. Whatever extra money WCW had to cough up, to get other WWF guys, they had to match for Hall. Nash claimed that Hall was dying to get him to jumping, knowing that WCW would pay him more (and would subsequently have to bump up Hall's salary).
And that whole debacle with each of them getting and extra $400K, based on the fake Razor and Diesel storyline that Jim Ross did in WWF was PRICELESS (14:00 mark, link 1).
WCW kept bleeding cash, and when Turner sold it to Time Warner, the suits there (who were hardly wrestling fans) weren't going to subsidize a product that was costing them dinero. So, they sold it to McMahon. The rest is history.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xnp7hf_wwe-roundtable-discussion-re-nwo-part-1_sport
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xnp8pk_wwe-roundtable-discussion-re-nwo-part-2_sport
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I did my homework, as those statement came from former WCW guys (i.e. Booker T) and the fellows behind the scenes (i.e. JJ Dillon, who stated that WCW was getting killed on PPVs by WWE).
Hall's "favored nations" contract was another stupid idea. Whatever extra money WCW had to cough up, to get other WWF guys, they had to match for Hall. Nash claimed that Hall was dying to get him to jumping, knowing that WCW would pay him more (and would subsequently have to bump up Hall's salary).
And that whole debacle with each of them getting and extra $400K, based on the fake Razor and Diesel storyline that Jim Ross did in WWF was PRICELESS.
No u didn't do your home work and as typically u, your posts are based on hearsay, information misinformation misinterpretation and what you read on google and hear on dvds (which guys are paid to comment). You're a "mark" who believes in the storylines u watch on tv and 95% of your posts prove it. Then again...your also someone who thinks The Miz is a Ric Flair caliber talent.
WCW went out of business due to poor creative ideas that lacked putting asses in seats. Stupidity such as the finger poke of doom and putting the world title on David Arquette are only small examples and when you have non wrestling people in suits from TBS that don't know the wrestling business and our how its construed, its like putting a 7 year old behind the wheel of a Nascar. They paid there star wrestlers big but they were generating a lot more in revenue from tv especially when they buried WWE in ratings back in 1998.
By 2000-2001, most of the top names such as Hogan and Savage had already left WCW as there contracts expired so your big nitro and thunder shows went from a three hour timeslot to one hour and people were forced to watch nobodies like chuck palumbo, shawn staziak a few AAA high flyers and welterweights and no one will pay to see that let alone buy a ticket to a show.
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No u didn't do your home work and as typically u, your posts are based on hearsay, information misinformation misinterpretation and what you read on google and hear on dvds (which guys are paid to comment). You're a "mark" who believes in the storylines u watch on tv and 95% of your posts prove it. Then again...your also someone who thinks The Miz is a Ric Flair caliber talent.
WCW went out of business due to poor creative ideas that lacked putting asses in seats. Stupidity such as the finger poke of doom and putting the world title on David Arquette are only small examples and when you have non wrestling people in suits from TBS that don't know the wrestling business and our how its construed, its like putting a 7 year old behind the wheel of a Nascar. They paid there star wrestlers big but they were generating a lot more in revenue from tv especially when they buried WWE in ratings back in 1998.
By 2000-2001, most of the top names such as Hogan and Savage had already left WCW as there contracts expired so your big nitro and thunder shows went from a three hour timeslot to one hour and people were forced to watch nobodies like chuck palumbo, shawn staziak a few AAA high flyers and welterweights and no one will pay to see that let alone buy a ticket to a show.
I remember going to a Nitro towards the end of the companies run and the place was half empty AND they were giving away tickets for free!! Free tickets and the place was still half empty. Sad site to see.
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No u didn't do your home work and as typically u, your posts are based on hearsay, information misinformation misinterpretation and what you read on google and hear on dvds (which guys are paid to comment). You're a "mark" who believes in the storylines u watch on tv and 95% of your posts prove it. Then again...your also someone who thinks The Miz is a Ric Flair caliber talent.
WCW went out of business due to poor creative ideas that lacked putting asses in seats. Stupidity such as the finger poke of doom and putting the world title on David Arquette are only small examples and when you have non wrestling people in suits from TBS that don't know the wrestling business and our how its construed, its like putting a 7 year old behind the wheel of a Nascar. They paid there star wrestlers big but they were generating a lot more in revenue from tv especially when they buried WWE in ratings back in 1998.
By 2000-2001, most of the top names such as Hogan and Savage had already left WCW as there contracts expired so your big nitro and thunder shows went from a three hour timeslot to one hour and people were forced to watch nobodies like chuck palumbo, shawn staziak a few AAA high flyers and welterweights and no one will pay to see that let alone buy a ticket to a show.
Learn to spell, genius, before you beat your gums about who knows what. And where in the world did you get that stupid Miz comment?
You basically repeated what I said. People who weren't into wrestling took over the company. When WCW kept bleeding cash, they jettisoned it to McMahon.
And you can't even get your time line straight. 1998 (May 1998, to be more precise) was when WCW's 83-week streak of Nitro beating Raw came TO AN END. That's when it got competitive. It even got to the point where TAPED Raw shows were beating LIVE Nitro programs.
The death knell finally came in late '98/early '99, when Tony Schiavone made the announcement that Mankind was going to beat Rock for the WWF title, on a taped version of Raw. WCW had done this several times before then. But, it backfired this time. Hundreds of thousands of viewers swtiched from Nitro to Raw to see Foley win the belt. Raw NEVER trailed Nitro in the ratings again. And that's with Hogan and Savage still under contract to WCW.....so much for that tripe.
WCW paid these guys too much money; and they under-performed. They no-showed or gave crappy matches, especially on the pay-per-view events. Need I remind you of that debacle that was the Hogan-Warrior rematch at Halloween Havoc? They were getting paid, regardless; and it showed in their performances.
Meanwhile, the hard-working midcarders that kept the company afloat started bailing (Jericho, Benoit, Guerrero, Mysterio, et. al.). They saw McMahon turned Austin and Foley into superstars (as he'd done with Hall and Nash). WCW ended up stuck with no midcarders to carry the day and overpaid underperforming superstars, relying on name recognition.
It got to the point where the only guy worth watching was Goldberg. WCW had to put him out two to three times a night on Nitro. But, you can only see him squash so many people, before it gets tiring. Or, you do as I did: Watch Goldberg dismantle some chump, while commercials are on Raw; match ends; turn it back to Raw. And when Goldberg went down, after putting his arm through that limousine window, it got brutal.
So, your other main-event guys are dogging it (getting paid ridiculous jack, regardless); you have no solid midcard roster; and your lone golden goose is out for nearly a year. And, now you have guys running the show who aren't exactly dedicated to the business and refuse to keep coughing up money to sustain WCW. Gee! How could that company possibly go out of business?
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Learn to spell, genius, before you beat your gums about who knows what. And where in the world did you get that stupid Miz comment?
You basically repeated what I said. People who weren't into wrestling took over the company. When WCW kept bleeding cash, they jettisoned it to McMahon.
And you can't even get your time line straight. 1998 (May 1998, to be more precise) was when WCW's 83-week streak of Nitro beating Raw came TO AN END. That's when it got competitive. It even got to the point where TAPED Raw shows were beating LIVE Nitro programs.
The death knell finally came in late '98/early '99, when Tony Schiavone made the announcement that Mankind was going to beat Rock for the WWF title, on a taped version of Raw. WCW had done this several times before then. But, it backfired this time. Hundreds of thousands of viewers swtiched from Nitro to Raw to see Foley win the belt. Raw NEVER trailed Nitro in the ratings again. And that's with Hogan and Savage still under contract to WCW.....so much for that tripe.
WCW paid these guys too much money; and they under-performed. They no-showed or gave crappy matches, especially on the pay-per-view events. Need I remind you of that debacle that was the Hogan-Warrior rematch at Halloween Havoc? They were getting paid, regardless; and it showed in their performances.
Meanwhile, the hard-working midcarders that kept the company afloat started bailing (Jericho, Benoit, Guerrero, Mysterio, et. al.). They saw McMahon turned Austin and Foley into superstars (as he'd done with Hall and Nash). WCW ended up stuck with no midcarders to carry the day and overpaid underperforming superstars, relying on name recognition.
It got to the point where the only guy worth watching was Goldberg. WCW had to put him out two to three times a night on Nitro. But, you can only see him squash so many people, before it gets tiring. Or, you do as I did: Watch Goldberg dismantle some chump, while commercials are on Raw; m
atch ends; turn it back to Raw. And when Goldberg went down, after putting his arm through that limousine window, it got brutal.
So, your other main-event guys are dogging it (getting paid ridiculous jack, regardless); you have no solid midcard roster; and your lone golden goose is out for nearly a year. And, now you have guys running the show who aren't exactly dedicated to the business and refuse to keep coughing up money to sustain WCW. Gee! How could that company possibly go out of business?
Im not on here to win a spelling bee champ and you don't have to give me any low downs on stories or timelines. I know more about the business than you'll ever know and its from fact and I don't need to sit / google / research for hours like a dumb mark to attempt to prove a point. My earlier post still stands and your joke of a rebuttal can't even come close.
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No u didn't do your home work and as typically u, your posts are based on hearsay, information misinformation misinterpretation and what you read on google and hear on dvds (which guys are paid to comment). You're a "mark" who believes in the storylines u watch on tv and 95% of your posts prove it. Then again...your also someone who thinks The Miz is a Ric Flair caliber talent.
WCW went out of business due to poor creative ideas that lacked putting asses in seats. Stupidity such as the finger poke of doom and putting the world title on David Arquette are only small examples and when you have non wrestling people in suits from TBS that don't know the wrestling business and our how its construed, its like putting a 7 year old behind the wheel of a Nascar. They paid there star wrestlers big but they were generating a lot more in revenue from tv especially when they buried WWE in ratings back in 1998.
By 2000-2001, most of the top names such as Hogan and Savage had already left WCW as there contracts expired so your big nitro and thunder shows went from a three hour timeslot to one hour and people were forced to watch nobodies like chuck palumbo, shawn staziak a few AAA high flyers and welterweights and no one will pay to see that let alone buy a ticket to a show.
IMO, three hours was too long for a weekly wrestling show. It's too much time to fill. WWF/WWE has always survived by its TV exposure. WCW was fortunate that they were essentially owned by a television station. It still wasn't enough to save them in the end.
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IMO, three hours was too long for a weekly wrestling show. It's too much time to fill. WWF/WWE has always survived by its TV exposure. WCW was fortunate that they were essentially owned by a television station. It still wasn't enough to save them in the end.
I remember Arn Anderson mentioning that they would be an hour into the show and they didnt even know what they were doing creatively. Guys were going out there and flying off the top of there heads.
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I remember Arn Anderson mentioning that they would be an hour into the show and they didnt even know what they were doing creatively. Guys were going out there and flying off the top of there heads.
Jericho and Chavo were talking about that on Jerichos podcast.
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good stuff guys..i was watching that final product nitro was doing and yeah it was bad,wwe was on fire and had the talent/roster to go forward.too much 'NWO'and factions grew tiring,,the big 3 hollywood'lol'hall/nash was a trifecta and what a storyline to carry I remember it well..
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Im not on here to win a spelling bee champ and you don't have to give me any low downs on stories or timelines. I know more about the business than you'll ever know and its from fact and I don't need to sit / google / research for hours like a dumb mark to attempt to prove a point. My earlier post still stands and your joke of a rebuttal can't even come close.
You know so much about timelines that you cite 1998 as the year Nitro started burying Raw, when that is the very year Nitro's streak came to an end. All you did was repeat what I basically said from the start, minus your pointless drivel and some dopey comment about the Miz.
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Does Hall have a pacemaker, now?
i think they mentioned it on 30 30 the espn show they did a segment on scott hall . it's probably on youtube. pretty sad to watch.
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i think they mentioned it on 30 30 the espn show they did a segment on scott hall . it's probably on youtube. pretty sad to watch.
Okay, then that's probably where I'd heard it.
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You know so much about timelines that you cite 1998 as the year Nitro darted burying Raw, when that is the very year Nitro's streak came to an end. All you did was repeat what I basically said from the start, minus your pointless drivel and some dopey comment about the Miz.
No...you misinterpreted. 1998 was when they peaked. I didnt repeat your garbage andvill out talk you ANY day of the week on the wrestling business. Twice on saturday...three times on sunday.
Settle yourself down. Its only the internet. Theres no money going into your pocket. You dont need to spar with people here.
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No...you misinterpreted. 1998 was when they peaked. I didnt repeat your garbage andvill out talk you ANY day of the week on the wrestling business. Twice on saturday...three times on sunday.
Settle yourself down. Its only the internet. Theres no money going into your pocket. You dont need to spar with people here.
You're the one, sparring here and popping off about who you can outtalk.
There's no money going in your pocket, either.
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(http://gifrific.gifrific.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/George-Costanza-Eating-Popcorn.gif)
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Yup.......yup......yup ..."marks".....
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WCW went to the ground because of stupid people that knew nothing about wrestling
Running the company.. as playboy mentioned.. too many stupid angles caused people to stop watching
Or attending live events...
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WCW went to the ground because of stupid people that knew nothing about wrestling
Running the company.. as playboy mentioned.. too many stupid angles caused people to stop watching
Or attending live events...
Amen
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WCW went to the ground because of stupid people that knew nothing about wrestling
Running the company.. as playboy mentioned.. too many stupid angles caused people to stop watching
Or attending live events...
That's what I've been saying from the start. And part of not knowing anything about wrestling involved overpaying certain stars, resulting in their lackluster performances. It also resulted in good workers migrating to the WWF, where they could blow up (i.e. Jericho, Guererro, Benoit).
Hall was strung out on dope, half-heartedly wrestling. Yet he got (as Nash put it) more than "Sting money". And to top it all off, some imbecile gave him a "favored nations" contract, where however much scratch you have to pony up to get a big-time guy from the WWF (i.e. Bret Hart), you have to pay Hall (and later Nash) the same amount of money.
I could see giving Big D that kind of deal; but Razor? PLEASE!!! And, to top it off, that extra $400K, all because of the fake Diesel and Razor thing JR did. Unbelievable!!
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I need a cognac.
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Bump for Lurker to check out.
Incidentally, for all the talk I've heard about Hall's involvement in the nWo storyline, I don't hear that much about how great his actual matches are.
In fact, the only memorable match(es) about which I hear is the WM10 ladder match with HBK. It's hard to believe that was 20 years ago.
And who can forget his pre-match ritual of handing his chains to the timekeeper with the warning, "Something happen to this gold.....something going to happen to YOU, mane!!" (0:43-0:48)
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Here's where Razor really arrived, defeating Rick Martel (after the two of them survived a battle royal), to win the vacated Intercontinental Championship (due to Shawn Michaels' suspension).
And in a fitness-related note, I believe the RAW ring girl is fitness champion Themis Klarides.
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Hall is probably my all time favorite wrestler. His Razor Ramon run was great. Sad to see how fucked his body and mind got, but it looks like he is doing better now with DDP helping him. That ESPN documentary about him was sad to watch because i loved the guy so much as a wrestler. He did have a pacemaker put in and has a seizure disorder too. He is on like a million meds and jokes about how he takes all these pills and none give him a buzz anymore. Did anyone know he killed a guy when he was 25? Got into a fight outside a strip club and the other dude pulled a gun, Hall took it from him and blasted the dude in the head killing him instantly. Check out the ESPN thing about him if you havent and then see how much better he is doing now. I love the guy. I think he is great on the mic and great in the ring too. His Last match with Vader at the Fed was sweet too. His crownng moment was the HBK ladder match.
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WWE sued WCW when Hall left so that he couldnt use the Razor Ramon character. Ridiculous lawsuit saying he couldn't do the "hispanic" voice. WTF? Scott Hall was truly a great wrestler and talent, he deserves his spot no matter all his substance abuse problems.
WWE sued WCW not because of Hall using his Razor voice but because he showed up on Nitro during his 90 day no compete clause that was in his WWE contract. He never once spoke in his Razor character voice. That is a complete false. Fans were only chanting "Razor" because thats all they new him as at the time. Prior to WWE Hall had no streamline exposure.
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WWE sued WCW not because of Hall using his Razor voice but because he showed up on Nitro during his 90 day no compete clause that was in his WWE contract. He never once spoke in his Razor character voice. That is a complete false. Fans were only chanting "Razor" because thats all they new him as at the time. Prior to WWE Hall had no streamline exposure.
Are we watching the same Nitro here? Hall sounded like Razor Ramon from the moment he popped up on the show. Check the link I cited earlier, too see the footage.
Plus, there's the promo where Bischoff asks him and Nash if they work for the WWF, to which they both answered "NO!". Hall (in full Razor-schtick) calls Bischoff "chico" and later tells him, "You tell Billionaire Ted to break out de moaney and get anybody he can, because the BIG mane and the medium-size mane and our surprise buddy are going to CARVE THEM UP!!". Bischoff later gets jacknifed by Nash.
Here's an earlier Nitro clip.
And you're going to claim Hall isn't acting and talking like Razor Ramon here?
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WWE sued WCW not because of Hall using his Razor voice but because he showed up on Nitro during his 90 day no compete clause that was in his WWE contract. He never once spoke in his Razor character voice. That is a complete false. Fans were only chanting "Razor" because thats all they new him as at the time. Prior to WWE Hall had no streamline exposure.
Wrong. The lawsuit absolutely stated "hispanic voice" as one of the objects of contention. It was the whole character that the Fed claimed to own. It was in one of the documentaries i dont remember which one but they showed the actual court papers and that was what the fed was suing over.
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Wrong. The lawsuit absolutely stated "hispanic voice" as one of the objects of contention. It was the whole character that the Fed claimed to own. It was in one of the documentaries i dont remember which one but they showed the actual court papers and that was what the fed was suing over.
Thats just Vince being a suck because two of his top tier guys left him high and dry. Hes speaking in his normal voice there. Watch his Razor WWE promos and then watch the Nitro invation promo.
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I just put two of them up there. Hall sounds like the Razor Ramon character. Calling people "chico", using the toothpicks, pronouncing the word, "man" as "mane" or "mang", the slow deliberate talk during his promos. In the second video, he tells Bischoff "Maybe he get the Stinger! Oooooo....I so scared!!"
It's as plain as day.
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I just put two of them up there. Hall sounds like the Razor Ramon character. Calling people "chico", using the toothpicks, pronouncing the word, "man" as "mane" or "mang".
It's as plain as day.
This.
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This.
If you look closely at the first video I put up in that post, after Nash powerbombs Bischoff, you'll see Hall's feet as he's jumping in place, doing his "Bad Guy" stomp (if you will), Razor Ramon style.
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If you look closely at the first video I put up in that post, after Nash powerbombs Bischoff, you'll see Hall's feet as he's jumping in place, doing his "Bad Guy" stomp (if you will), Razor Ramon style.
The Cha Cha Cha, mang. Say hello to the bad guy, chico. Hall is the greatest.
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Man, you guys are killing me!
Okay, here it is:
Professional wrestling promoter (Vince McMahon) brought action against rival promoter (Eric Bischoff), alleging copyright infringement, trademark infringement, tortious interference with contract and violations of Connecticut Unfair Trade Practices, in connection with rival's employment of two wrestlers who portrayed copyrighted characters.
THE FACTS AS STATED IN THE COMPLAINT
Titan Sports, Inc., etc., ("Plaintiff") is a Delaware corporation with its principal place of business in Connecticut. Plaintiff promotes live, and on cable, syndicated, and pay-per-view television, professional wrestling under its registered service mark "World Wrestling Federation" ("WWF"). TBS is a Georgia corporation which owns and operates several cable networks, including Turner Network Television ("TNT") and WTBS. WCW is a Georgia corporation and a majority owned subsidiary of TBS.
WCW competes directly with WWF in televising professional wrestling, associated merchandising, and licensing programs. Bischoff is a citizen of Georgia, an officer and employee of TBS, in charge of WCW's operations and serves as a television announcer for WCW programming. Plaintiff contends that success in the professional wrestling business depends upon the development of interesting wrestling characters and story lines. Characters must have names, personalities, histories, relationships, personas, and visual appearances that appeal to consumers. Plaintiff alleges that WWF programming combines character-driven story lines with skillful wrestling while WCW has no reputation for creativity. TBS proposed interpromotional matches in order to associate WCW with WWF, but Plaintiff rejected this idea.
After wrestling unsuccessfully with WCW, Scott Hall contracted to wrestle for Plaintiff. Plaintiff created a wrestling character for Hall called "Razor Ramon," alias "The Bad Guy," with a distinctive Hispanic accent, slicked back hair in a ponytail with a curl in the front, a toothpick in his mouth, a vest, and multiple chains around his neck. Plaintiff registered the service mark "Razor Ramon" with the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office. The contract provided that Plaintiff retained exclusive ownership of the character's name and likeness and the exclusive right to distribute copyrightable materials based on the character. Hall warranted that he would not enter other agreements conflicting with Plaintiff's contract rights.
Plaintiff developed Razor Ramon into one of its most popular characters. He has appeared in television broadcasts, live events, a two-hour videotape, several magazines, and is the subject of merchandise devoted to the character. He won WWF's Intercontinental Championship at least four times. The character is well-recognized by wrestling fans. Plaintiff developed another character using wrestler Kevin Nash who wrestled unsuccessfully with defendant WCW. Nash and Plaintiff entered into a contract with provisions similar to Hall's contract. Nash's character was "Diesel," alias "Big Daddy Cool." Diesel's trade dress included a goatee beard and moustache, black leather pants, a black leather vest decorated with silver studs and tassels, a black low cut tank-top shirt, a black fingerless glove on the right hand, black elbow pads, black wrist bands, sunglasses, and black leather boots. Diesel is visibly different from the characters previously portrayed by Nash at WCW.
Diesel was added to Plaintiff's story lines and appeared in television broadcasts, commercial videotapes, magazines, and became the subject of merchandise. Like Razor Ramon, Diesel also became widely recognized and popular, winning the WWF Heavyweight Championship in 1995.In 1993, Plaintiff promoted Razor Ramon and Diesel on its "Monday Night Raw" television program, which was broadcast weekly at 9:00 p.m. EST. In 1995, defendant TBS began broadcasting a competing program "WCW Monday Nitro" at the same time. Plaintiff alleges that TBS's broadcast continually disparaged WWF, while WCW agents circulated false rumors of Plaintiff's impending bankruptcy in order to lure wrestlers to WCW. In 1996, enticed by WCW's promise of lucrative, guaranteed contracts, Hall and Nash contracted to wrestle with WCW.
After the contracts were executed, Plaintiff alleges that defendant Bischoff planned to capitalize on the goodwill of the Razor Ramon and Diesel characters. Hall and Nash were to appear on WCW's broadcast as Razor Ramon and Diesel, supposedly representing WWF in an interpromotional battle. Before the broadcast, WCW's 900 hotlines told consumers that Razor Ramon and Diesel were considering leaving WWF for WCW, although in reality, they had already done so. Defendants expanded the introductory broadcast to two hours, starting before Plaintiff's competing broadcast. Hall appeared in the persona of Razor Ramon, although the broadcast did not refer to him by name. The end of the broadcast falsely conveyed that interpromotional matches would thereafter air on TNT. Fans sent letters evidencing their presumption that Hall was performing as Razor Ramon for WWF on TNT. Plaintiff attempted to dispel the rumors by broadcasting that Hall and Nash were no longer associated with the WWF. Nevertheless, Hall appeared on two further WCW broadcasts, perpetuating the false presumption. Bischoff also indicated that the interpromotional matches would be seen on an upcoming pay-per-view program. Hall and Nash did appear on the pay-per-view program as the characters Razor Ramon and Diesel. Defendants, however, did not refer to them by any name.
The Hispanic accent part of the complaint was used to describe the Razor Ramon character. WWF's complaint was that Bischoff was misrepresenting Hall and Nash as Razor and Diesel, respectively. While never done so on TV, Mark Madden referred to them by their WWF-trademarked names on his 900 hotline, which was a HUGE mistake.
I detected noticeably more of the "accent" in the second clip posted above while it seemed less prevalent in the first. Maybe they told Hall to back off a bit so it wasn't "too" obvious. It'd be interesting to know when that was in reference to WWF's complaint.
Ironically enough, WCW actually tried suing Vince a few short years later by claiming he was trying to "confuse" WCW fans into watching his shows when he announced the return of Razor & Diesel - allegedly misrepresenting the notion that Hall & Nash were returning to the Fed. The argument was extremely thin.
The rest of the laughable compliant essentially read almost word for word like WWF's complaint filed approximately two years before.
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Man, you guys are killing me!
Okay, here it is:
The Hispanic accent part of the complaint was used to describe the Razor Ramon character. WWF's complaint was that Bischoff was misrepresenting Hall and Nash as Razor and Diesel, respectively. While never done so on TV, Mark Madden referred to them by their WWF-trademarked names on his 900 hotline, which was a HUGE mistake.
I detected noticeably more of the "accent" in the second clip posted above while it seemed less prevalent in the first. Maybe they told Hall to back off a bit so it wasn't "too" obvious. It'd be interesting to know when that was in reference to WWF's complaint.
Ironically enough, WCW actually tried suing Vince a few short years later by claiming he was trying to "confuse" WCW fans into watching his shows when he announced the return of Razor & Diesel - allegedly misrepresenting the notion that Hall & Nash were returning to the Fed. The argument was extremely thin.
The rest of the laughable compliant essentially read almost word for word like WWF's complaint filed approximately two years before.
Bingo.
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Bingo.
Did you guys notice fitness competitor, Themis Klarides, as the RAW ring girl during the IC title match between Razor and "The Model" Rick Martel?
;D
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Bingo.
You guys ever wonder if maybe the reason they're inducting Hall as Razor this year is because they may plan to induct him again as his nWo persona? It could happen; Flair was inducted twice.
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You guys ever wonder if maybe the reason they're inducting Hall as Razor this year is because they may plan to induct him again as his nWo persona? It could happen; Flair was inducted twice.
Maybe they were just afraid he wouldn't live much longer. I'm only half joking. He was in bad fucking shape and the Fed paid for 12 rehab stints for him. Then his whole heart surgery and suicide attempt. I fucking love the guy he is so fucking talented, like i said he is my favorite wrestler ever.
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Maybe they were just afraid he wouldn't live much longer. I'm only half joking.
That's okay; he's only "half living!"
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You guys ever wonder if maybe the reason they're inducting Hall as Razor this year is because they may plan to induct him again as his nWo persona? It could happen; Flair was inducted twice.
That also means Hogan gets in twice.
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Hall doing his trademark foot stomp and chewing on toothpicks have nothing to do with his Razor character. He was doing tht in the AWA and as the Diamond Studd in his first WCW run. Thats just Hall being hall. Helll he chews on toothpics during his shoot interviews FFS.
As for this nonsense Hispanic voice...just because jealous hypocrite Vince sued WCW for it that doesn't mean that it happened. Hall's real voice and Razor voice are almost indistinguishable. In the end...Vince got nothing. He only got compensation for Hall showing up prematurely on Nitro do to his 90 day no compete clause.
Vince suing WCW for "use of hispanic voice" is nonsense and was only done strictly out of spite.
Austin drank beers in ECW. Did Heymen sue Vince? NO. Heymen is not a spiteful suck.
Just like when McMahon raided all the territories in the eighties. Why was that "ok" but when Bishoff did it to Vince in the mid ninties all of a sudden it was wrong??? Vince is a spiteful hypocrite and that was the reason behind his frivolous lawsuit. He was losing the ratings, money and talent left right and center.
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Hall doing his trademark foot stomp and chewing on toothpicks have nothing to do with his Razor character. He was doing tht in the AWA and as the Diamond Studd in his first WCW run. Thats just Hall being hall. Helll he chews on toothpics during his shoot interviews FFS.
As for this nonsense Hispanic voice...just because jealous hypocrite Vince sued WCW for it that doesn't mean that it happened. Hall's real voice and Razor voice are almost indistinguishable. In the end...Vince got nothing. He only got compensation for Hall showing up prematurely on Nitro do to his 90 day no compete clause.
Vince suing WCW for "use of hispanic voice" is nonsense and was only done strictly out of spite.
Austin drank beers in ECW. Did Heymen sue Vince? NO. Heymen is not a spiteful suck.
Just like when McMahon raided all the territories in the eighties. Why was that "ok" but when Bishoff did it to Vince in the mid ninties all of a sudden it was wrong??? Vince is a spiteful hypocrite and that was the reason behind his frivolous lawsuit. He was losing the ratings, money and talent left right and center.
Did Hall call people "chico" as the Diamond Studd? Did he threaten to "carve up" his opponents? Did he call his opponents "mane" or "mang"? I remember Hall from his Florida Championship Wrestling days. He did none of those things and looked nothing like the Razor Ramon character, back then.
Vince McMahon did sue WCW. We never said he did so SUCCESSFULLY!! That's why I think WCW had Bischoff do the promo where he asked Hall and Nash if they work for WWF, before he gets powerbombed.
As for the 90-day clause, is that standard with all wrestlers, because you have the whole Lex-Luger deal with Luger showing up on Nitro the night after SummerSlam '95?
I don't remember there being a suit on that one. Did Luger have a 90-day no-compete clause?
The whole crux of the nWo storyline (initially) was that the WWF "new generation" guys were invading WCW. And it all started with Hall, acting and talking like Razor Ramon, complete with all the WWF digs at WCW ("Billonaire Ted", "Huckster", "Nacho Man", "Scheme Gene", etc.).
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Luger's Federation contract had expired prior to his WWF departure. I don't know how long he'd been working without one, but he allegedly knee-jerked the old man when he left for WCW. He didn't give proper notice, but he wasn't under contract, either.
I think there's a good chance his 90 days were up when he appeared on Nitro. Given the way he left, and where he went, I suspect Vince would have pursued legal action if he could have. They dumped a ton of money and energy into promoting Lex and trying to make him the next Hulk Hogan.
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Nash and Luger were both on a pay per appearance clause as there contracts were both up. Vince took there word for it that they would resign. Hall never used the term "Chico or Mane"in WCW. Just an fyi.
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Hall doing his trademark foot stomp and chewing on toothpicks have nothing to do with his Razor character. He was doing tht in the AWA and as the Diamond Studd in his first WCW run. Thats just Hall being hall. Helll he chews on toothpics during his shoot interviews FFS.
As for this nonsense Hispanic voice...just because jealous hypocrite Vince sued WCW for it that doesn't mean that it happened. Hall's real voice and Razor voice are almost indistinguishable. In the end...Vince got nothing. He only got compensation for Hall showing up prematurely on Nitro do to his 90 day no compete clause.
Vince suing WCW for "use of hispanic voice" is nonsense and was only done strictly out of spite.
Austin drank beers in ECW. Did Heymen sue Vince? NO. Heymen is not a spiteful suck.
Just like when McMahon raided all the territories in the eighties. Why was that "ok" but when Bishoff did it to Vince in the mid ninties all of a sudden it was wrong??? Vince is a spiteful hypocrite and that was the reason behind his frivolous lawsuit. He was losing the ratings, money and talent left right and center.
Great points..
I read an article where Vince was suing to make sure that nobody could sell WWE merchandise around a 7 mile radius from the Mercedes dome.. they dismissed the suit due to Vince using John doe which the judge said you couldn't do.
Vince probably had a meltdown when he lost the f ;D
To the world wide fund.. I read an article that the world wide fund wanted a comprise..
But Vince being a hot head decided to sue.. and lost big time including paying monetary $$
In the millions..
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Luger's Federation contract had expired prior to his WWF departure. I don't know how long he'd been working without one, but he allegedly knee-jerked the old man when he left for WCW. He didn't give proper notice, but he wasn't under contract, either.
I think there's a good chance his 90 days were up when he appeared on Nitro. Given the way he left, and where he went, I suspect Vince would have pursued legal action if he could have. They dumped a ton of money and energy into promoting Lex and trying to make him the next Hulk Hogan.
I think by mid-late '94, the whole Luger push died. Kevin Nash mentioned in a shoot that Shane McMahon and Lex told him that the brass were really high on him, because of his still being fairly big in spite of the drug testing and that eventually he was going to be champion. Nash didn't believe them, until that fateful meeting at Vince's house in Connecticut. Big D claimed he actually thought he was being fired. When he found out he was getting the belt, he was flabberghasted.
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I think by mid-late '94, the whole Luger push died. Kevin Nash mentioned in a shoot that Shane McMahon and Lex told him that the brass were really high on him, because of his still being fairly big in spite of the drug testing and that eventually he was going to be champion. Nash didn't believe them, until that fateful meeting at Vince's house in Connecticut. Big D claimed he actually thought he was being fired. When he found out he was getting the belt, he was flabberghasted.
Luger could've really been something. Seems like he floundered everywhere. Horseman...WWE run....WCW NWO wolfpac run. Just brutal.