Marriage Minded Gays 1. Fundie Christian Court Clerks 0.

[LurkerNoMore]

Right. The only option was sending her to jail.

This seemed to be a rational and calm response.  I'm disappointed.  I was hoping the meltdown continued.

[The Ugly]

Right. The only option was sending her to jail.

Never suggested such, but interesting subject change nonetheless. Guess I'm done with you, too.

[Skeletor]

Right. The only option was sending her to jail.

You sound about as bright (and angry) as Coach.




The judge later tried to keep Davis out of jail after all. He rejected her lawyer's argument that deputy clerks cannot act against her authority, and required them to declare their intentions.

All but the clerk's son, Nathan Davis, promised to comply. The judge said his refusal wouldn't matter and that his mother could go free as long as she promises not to interfere with issuing of marriage licenses to all couples.

But Kim Davis rejected the offer, choosing jail instead, her attorneys said.

The judge said his only alternative was to jail her because he did not believe she would comply with his order even if she were fined.

Speaking earlier from the bench, Bunning said it would set up a "slippery slope" to allow an individual's ideas to supersede the courts' authority.

"Her good faith belief is simply not a viable defense," Bunning said. "I myself have genuinely held religious beliefs ... but I took an oath."


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/09/03/judge-orders-kentucky-clerk-to-jail-for-refusing-to-issue-marriage-licenses-for/

[The Ugly]

You sound about as bright (and angry) as Coach.




The judge later tried to keep Davis out of jail after all. He rejected her lawyer's argument that deputy clerks cannot act against her authority, and required them to declare their intentions.

All but the clerk's son, Nathan Davis, promised to comply. The judge said his refusal wouldn't matter and that his mother could go free as long as she promises not to interfere with issuing of marriage licenses to all couples.

But Kim Davis rejected the offer, choosing jail instead, her attorneys said.

The judge said his only alternative was to jail her because he did not believe she would comply with his order even if she were fined.

Speaking earlier from the bench, Bunning said it would set up a "slippery slope" to allow an individual's ideas to supersede the courts' authority.

"Her good faith belief is simply not a viable defense," Bunning said. "I myself have genuinely held religious beliefs ... but I took an oath."


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/09/03/judge-orders-kentucky-clerk-to-jail-for-refusing-to-issue-marriage-licenses-for/

Seems to be a concerted effort to spin the persecuted Christian narrative - exactly what Huckabee hoped to accomplish, I'd imagine. I usually respect the guy, but this is simply dishonest. Pretty narcissistic as well.

[George Whorewell]

This seemed to be a rational and calm response.  I'm disappointed.  I was hoping the meltdown continued.

You know me better than that Lurk.

[George Whorewell]

Never suggested such, but interesting subject change nonetheless. Guess I'm done with you, too.

lol ok there sport. Chalk another one up for the good guys.

[LurkerNoMore]

You know me better than that Lurk.

Oh lord... Joon bought your account?

Hee Hee

[George Whorewell]

You sound about as bright (and angry) as Coach.




The judge later tried to keep Davis out of jail after all. He rejected her lawyer's argument that deputy clerks cannot act against her authority, and required them to declare their intentions.

All but the clerk's son, Nathan Davis, promised to comply. The judge said his refusal wouldn't matter and that his mother could go free as long as she promises not to interfere with issuing of marriage licenses to all couples.

But Kim Davis rejected the offer, choosing jail instead, her attorneys said.

The judge said his only alternative was to jail her because he did not believe she would comply with his order even if she were fined.

Speaking earlier from the bench, Bunning said it would set up a "slippery slope" to allow an individual's ideas to supersede the courts' authority.

"Her good faith belief is simply not a viable defense," Bunning said. "I myself have genuinely held religious beliefs ... but I took an oath."


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/09/03/judge-orders-kentucky-clerk-to-jail-for-refusing-to-issue-marriage-licenses-for/

Yes-- everyone who disagrees with you must be angry. Brilliant thesis "Skeletor". Please explain the relevance of the news article you just posted. You clearly don't know what your talking about-- so I'll educate you.

When Davis was elected, marrying homosexuals wasn't part of the job description. There was no tension between her sincerely held religious beliefs and the law as interpreted by 5 Supreme Court justices. Now, she is faced with the post hoc task of carrying out her "oath" or betraying her faith. She chose the latter. The Judge's reasoning is utter bullshit because, 7 other clerks perform precisely the same function as Davis and all but one agreed to perform gay marriages. If the voters in her district are appalled by her behavior, then she should be voted out of office during the next election cycle. Forcing Davis to choose between rejecting her religious beliefs and jail is the epitome of tyranny.

[George Whorewell]

The LSAT? Good grief, no... I have as much interest in attending law school as I do in staying a Holiday Inn Express. That is to say, none at all. I use the same vocabulary that I use when writing academic papers. Besides, why complain? It did help give you an excuse to not answer any of the substantive points I made.

Im sorry, using inter alia in that fashion makes everything you wrote null and void. Plus, if you're not an attorney, I'm not going to waste my time reasoning the law with a lay person.

[avxo]

Ooh... post hoc. Are you taking the LSAT or did you just watch the Matlock marathon? 

[avxo]

Im sorry, using inter alia in that fashion makes everything you wrote null and void. Plus, if you're not an attorney, I'm not going to waste my time reasoning the law with a lay person.

A lay person? Are you suggesting you are a lawyer? I very much suspect that you aren't.

[George Whorewell]

A lay person? Are you suggesting you are a lawyer? I very much suspect that you aren't.

You must be new here.

[George Whorewell]

Ooh... post hoc. Are you taking the LSAT or did you just watch the Matlock marathon? 

Great minds think alike-- I was inspired by your verbosity. 

[George Whorewell]

Ok-- here is a situation that is the opposite side of the coin.

Serving alcohol was always part of the job description-- she took the job anyway; now shes suing.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/05/travel/muslim-flight-attendant-feat/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3223926/Muslim-flight-attendant-files-discrimination-complaint-against-employer-claiming-suspended-refusing-serve-alcohol.html

[The Ugly]

don't know what your talking about-- so I'll educate you.

Never fails.

[avxo]

Great minds think alike-- I was inspired by your verbosity.  

Where's the "Like" button in this joint?

When Davis was elected, marrying homosexuals wasn't part of the job description. There was no tension between her sincerely held religious beliefs and the law as interpreted by 5 Supreme Court justices. Now, she is faced with the post hoc task of carrying out her "oath" or betraying her faith. She chose the latter. The Judge's reasoning is utter bullshit because, 7 other clerks perform precisely the same function as Davis and all but one agreed to perform gay marriages. If the voters in her district are appalled by her behavior, then she should be voted out of office during the next election cycle. Forcing Davis to choose between rejecting her religious beliefs and jail is the epitome of tyranny.

How does the fact that she explicitly said that she would not allow anyone in her office to issue licenses to gay couples – a fact which which you conveniently left out – factor into the analysis though? After all, the clerks in her office are not elected and are subject to termination/dismissal if they refuse to comply with their boss's request.

Her job description hasn't changed as a result of the Supreme Court's decision, although she now has to issue marriages licenses to people who she doesn't think should be married. But what she thinks isn't relevant. The clerk doesn't have discretion to issue or not issue the license and her beliefs on the issue simply do not matter. Look, it's really quite simple. Kim Davis has two choices: she can either do her job and issue licenses in accordance with the law and the decision of the Supreme Court in Obergefell, or if, as a result of said decision, she now finds that her religious beliefs interfere with her ability to do her job then she can resign. But she cannot choose to not follow the law or disregard and ignore Court decisions and orders. This is not how our system works.

You suggest that it's up to the voters to boot her, if they're appaled by her behavior, but that issue is orthogonal to what we're discussing here. Yes, the voters can choose to not re-elect her if she decides to run again. But that doesn't mean that until the next election, that little slice of America is Kim Davis's own private fiefdom to run as she pleases, unconstrained by the law or by the decisions of the Courts.

[Skeletor]

Yes-- everyone who disagrees with you must be angry. Brilliant thesis "Skeletor". Please explain the relevance of the news article you just posted. You clearly don't know what your talking about-- so I'll educate you.

The irony... I'm sure you tried your best though.

When Davis was elected, marrying homosexuals wasn't part of the job description. There was no tension between her sincerely held religious beliefs and the law as interpreted by 5 Supreme Court justices. Now, she is faced with the post hoc task of carrying out her "oath" or betraying her faith. She chose the latter. The Judge's reasoning is utter bullshit because, 7 other clerks perform precisely the same function as Davis and all but one agreed to perform gay marriages. If the voters in her district are appalled by her behavior, then she should be voted out of office during the next election cycle. Forcing Davis to choose between rejecting her religious beliefs and jail is the epitome of tyranny.

It seems reading comprehension is not your strong point. The judge asked her specifically if she promised not to interfere with the other employees issuing the licenses and she said she could not. Read:

The judge later tried to keep Davis out of jail after all. He rejected her lawyer's argument that deputy clerks cannot act against her authority, and required them to declare their intentions.

All but the clerk's son, Nathan Davis, promised to comply. The judge said his refusal wouldn't matter and that his mother could go free as long as she promises not to interfere with issuing of marriage licenses to all couples.

But Kim Davis rejected the offer, choosing jail instead, her attorneys said.

[Straw Man]

Apparently she now requires the people in her office to share her personal religious beliefs (and I guess fuck whatever they choose to believe).  She seems to think she is "the office" now and "the office" now has a religious belief

This is the fundies real agenda.  It's no different than fundie muslim extremists.  They want every muslim to share their particular brand of islam.  It's not enough for them to be free to practice their particular type of religion.  Their beliefs require that everyone else does as well.

[timfogarty]

[Dos Equis]

From one of my friends:

"Thanks to Eugene Volokh, I am reminded that Title VII's requirement of religious accommodation does not apply to elected officials such as Kim Davis, so this situation must be analyzed under the Kentucky RFRA analysis, whether compelling Davis to issue the marriage licenses is the least restrictive means of insuring that all Kentuckians obtain the licenses they are legally entitled to receive, without suffering discrimination."

[Dos Equis]

Is she really being held without bail?  That's crazy. 

Kentucky clerk appeals order putting her in jail
Published September 07, 2015
Associated Press

LEXINGTON, Ky. –  A Kentucky county clerk has appealed a judge's decision to put her in jail for refusing to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples.

Attorneys for Rowan County Clerk Kim Davis officially appealed the ruling to the 6th Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals on Sunday. The three page motion does not include arguments as to why Davis should be released but amends Davis' earlier appeal of the judge's order.

Davis objects to same-sex marriage for religious reasons and stopped issuing all marriage licenses in June after the U.S. Supreme Court legalized gay marriage nationwide. Two gay couples and two straight couples sued her. U.S. District Judge David Bunning ordered Davis to issue the licenses and the Supreme Court upheld his ruling.

But Davis still refused to do it, saying she could not betray her conscience.

Thursday, Bunning ruled Davis was in contempt of court for disobeying his order and sent her to jail. Her deputy clerks then issued marriage licenses to gay couples Friday with Davis behind bars.

"Civil rights are civil rights and they are not subject to belief," said James Yates, who got a marriage license on Friday after having been denied five times previously.

Mat Staver, one of Davis' attorneys, said the marriage licenses issued Friday are "not worth the paper they are written on" because Davis refused to authorize them. But Rowan County Attorney Cecil Watkins says the licenses are valid. Bunning said he did not know if the licenses were valid but ordered them issued anyway.

Bunning indicated Davis will be in jail at least a week. She could stay longer if she continues to not obey the judge's order. Bunning had offered to release Davis from jail if she promised not to interfere with her deputy clerks as they issued the licenses. But Davis refused.

Staver called the contempt hearing "a charade" saying that Bunning had his mind made up before the hearing began.

Kentucky law requires marriage licenses be issued under the authority of the elected county clerk. Davis views issuing marriage licenses to same-sex couples as a stamp of approval of something she believes is a sin. She has said she will not issue marriage licenses until the state legislature changes the law so the licenses can be issued under someone else's authority.

The state legislature is not scheduled to meet again until January and Democratic Gov. Steve Beshear has refused to call a special session. Davis has refused to resign her $80,000-a-year job. As an elected official the only way she could lose her job is to lose an election or have the state legislature impeach her, which is unlikely given the conservative nature of the state General Assembly.

"She's not going to resign, she's not going to sacrifice her conscience, so she's doing what Martin Luther King Jr. wrote about in his Letter from the Birmingham Jail, which is to pay the consequences for her decision," Staver said.

Davis' plight has reignited the gay marriage debate and the limits of religious freedom. Her imprisonment has inspired spirited protests from both sides in this small eastern Kentucky community known mostly as the home to Morehead State University.

Saturday, about 300 people rallied in support of Davis at the Carter County Detention Center where she is being held. Another rally is scheduled for Tuesday with Republican presidential candidate Mike Huckabee.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/09/07/kentucky-clerk-appeals-order-putting-her-in-jail/?intcmp=hpbt2

[Agnostic007]

Is she really being held without bail?  That's crazy. 

Kentucky clerk appeals order putting her in jail
Published September 07, 2015
Associated Press

LEXINGTON, Ky. –  A Kentucky county clerk has appealed a judge's decision to put her in jail for refusing to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples.

Attorneys for Rowan County Clerk Kim Davis officially appealed the ruling to the 6th Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals on Sunday. The three page motion does not include arguments as to why Davis should be released but amends Davis' earlier appeal of the judge's order.

Davis objects to same-sex marriage for religious reasons and stopped issuing all marriage licenses in June after the U.S. Supreme Court legalized gay marriage nationwide. Two gay couples and two straight couples sued her. U.S. District Judge David Bunning ordered Davis to issue the licenses and the Supreme Court upheld his ruling.

But Davis still refused to do it, saying she could not betray her conscience.

Thursday, Bunning ruled Davis was in contempt of court for disobeying his order and sent her to jail. Her deputy clerks then issued marriage licenses to gay couples Friday with Davis behind bars.

"Civil rights are civil rights and they are not subject to belief," said James Yates, who got a marriage license on Friday after having been denied five times previously.

Mat Staver, one of Davis' attorneys, said the marriage licenses issued Friday are "not worth the paper they are written on" because Davis refused to authorize them. But Rowan County Attorney Cecil Watkins says the licenses are valid. Bunning said he did not know if the licenses were valid but ordered them issued anyway.

Bunning indicated Davis will be in jail at least a week. She could stay longer if she continues to not obey the judge's order. Bunning had offered to release Davis from jail if she promised not to interfere with her deputy clerks as they issued the licenses. But Davis refused.

Staver called the contempt hearing "a charade" saying that Bunning had his mind made up before the hearing began.

Kentucky law requires marriage licenses be issued under the authority of the elected county clerk. Davis views issuing marriage licenses to same-sex couples as a stamp of approval of something she believes is a sin. She has said she will not issue marriage licenses until the state legislature changes the law so the licenses can be issued under someone else's authority.

The state legislature is not scheduled to meet again until January and Democratic Gov. Steve Beshear has refused to call a special session. Davis has refused to resign her $80,000-a-year job. As an elected official the only way she could lose her job is to lose an election or have the state legislature impeach her, which is unlikely given the conservative nature of the state General Assembly.

"She's not going to resign, she's not going to sacrifice her conscience, so she's doing what Martin Luther King Jr. wrote about in his Letter from the Birmingham Jail, which is to pay the consequences for her decision," Staver said.

Davis' plight has reignited the gay marriage debate and the limits of religious freedom. Her imprisonment has inspired spirited protests from both sides in this small eastern Kentucky community known mostly as the home to Morehead State University.

Saturday, about 300 people rallied in support of Davis at the Carter County Detention Center where she is being held. Another rally is scheduled for Tuesday with Republican presidential candidate Mike Huckabee.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/09/07/kentucky-clerk-appeals-order-putting-her-in-jail/?intcmp=hpbt2

more crazy than claiming a book allegedly containing rules from a God forbid her to follow the law and issue a marriage license to homosexuals?

[240 is Back]

Is she really being held without bail?  That's crazy. 

The judge is a Bush apointee and HIGHLY conservative.  Doesn't like the law, but feels obligation to obey it.
It's a highly conservative county also.

http://www.newstalkflorida.com/conservative-judge-bunning-jailed-kim-davis-without-bail

[avxo]

Is she really being held without bail?  That's crazy. 

She is not being held without bail, because THERE IS NO BAIL IN CONTEMPT CASES. Bail comes into play when you are charged with something and are released on bail pending a trial that will happen at a later day. She was already found in contempt and sentenced to jail.

[Dos Equis]

more crazy than claiming a book allegedly containing rules from a God forbid her to follow the law and issue a marriage license to homosexuals?

Not crazy at all.  It's actually as American as apple pie.