Author Topic: Who killed George Tiller?  (Read 9648 times)

Straw Man

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Who killed George Tiller?
« on: June 01, 2009, 08:04:27 AM »
Who killed George Tiller?
George Tiller's murder is a horrific consequence of the harassment and intimidation of abortion providers

Jill Filipovic guardian.co.uk, Monday 1 June 2009 15.30 BST

George Tiller, a Kansas physician, was shot to death in church on Sunday. He was one of only a handful of doctors in the United States providing late-term therapeutic abortions for women in need – women whose pregnancies threatened their lives or their health, and women who learned that they were carrying foetuses with severe abnormalities. Women travelled across the country to see Tiller when their own physicians and local medical providers couldn't help them. For many women, Tiller was, as one of his patients put it, "the one shining light in the worst week of my life".

He was also a major lightening-rod in the abortion wars. Anti-choicers harassed his patients, day in and day out. They bombed his clinic. They shot him once before. They filed lawsuit after lawsuit and even convinced local prosecutors to launch criminal investigations and trials (none were successful). They published his home address and the full names of his family members on their websites. They posted information about anyone who did business with him, from where he got his coffee to where he did his dry cleaning.

They had him and his staff wearing bullet-proof vests to work every day. Tiller drove an armoured car and protected his home with a state-of-the-art security system. And, to better enable stalking and harassment, they posted his daily comings and goings – including the fact that he attended services every Sunday at Reformation Lutheran Church, the place where he was ultimately shot and killed.

All because he was a licensed physician who performed legal medical procedures.

Not surprisingly, his killer is strongly suspected to be affiliated with the "pro-life" movement. If that's the case, it makes Tiller the 10th person in the United States to be murdered by anti-choice terrorists.

And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Since 1977, there have been at least 17 attempted murders, 383 death threats, 153 incidents of assault or battery and three kidnappings committed against abortion providers in North America. Tiller himself survived an assassination attempt in 1993.

Some pro-life groups are issuing statements of condemnation and attempting to paint this murder as the work of an extremist. But this latest act of terrorism is, sadly, not an anomaly. It is part of a clearly-established pattern of harassment, intimidation and violence against abortion providers and pro-choice individuals. And mainstream pro-life groups shoulder much of the blame.

Pro-life organisations routinely refer to abortion as "murder", a "genocide" and a "holocaust". They post the full names abortion providers on their websites, along with their addresses, their license plate numbers, their photos, the names of children and the schools those children attend (sometimes with helpful Wild-West-style "Wanted" posters offering $5,000 rewards).

When you convince your followers that abortion providers are the equivalent of SS officers slaughtering innocents by the millions, tell them that "it's all-out WAR" against pro-choicers and then provide the home addresses and personal information of the "monster" "late-term baby-killer" abortion providers you're supposedly at war against, you can't act surprised when those followers conclude that it's morally justified to use the information to kill doctors.

These are not fringe groups. Conservative television personality Bill O'Reilly called Tiller's clinic a "death mill", referred to Tiller as a "baby killer" who was "executing babies about to be born" and said Tiller was doing "Nazi stuff" for which he "had blood on his hands".

Frank Pavone, a Roman Catholic priest, member of James Dobson's Focus on the Family and director of Priests for Life, posted a YouTube video on Sunday to say that he "abhors" the violence committed against Tiller but "we just don't know and we shouldn't jump to conclusions" in assuming that an anti-choice terrorist may have murdered Tiller – although, he concedes, someone may have assassinated him "in order to stop Tiller from killing more babies". He continued: "When we talk about abortion, we are taking about killing. There's no two ways about it. ... This is a massive holocaust, it is killing."

Pavone is chummy with Operation Rescue founder Randall Terry, who had this to say about Tiller's assassination:

George Tiller was a mass-murderer. We grieve for him that he did not have time to properly prepare his soul to face God.
I am more concerned that the Obama administration will use Tiller's killing to intimidate pro-lifers into surrendering our most effective rhetoric and actions. Abortion is still murder. And we still must call abortion by its proper name: murder.

Those men and women who slaughter the unborn are murderers according to the law of God. We must continue to expose them in our communities and peacefully protest them at their offices and homes, and yes, even their churches.

That's some definition of "peacefully protesting".

The prime suspect in Tiller's murder appears to have frequented the Operation Rescue website (which had it's own "Tiller Watch" section), and took part in some of those "peaceful protests" that anti-choicers hold so dear. Far from a random extremist, he appears to have been fairly entrenched in the anti-choice movement.

And if he is the person who murdered Tiller, he isn't alone among pro-lifers who embrace Terry's directive that "If you think abortion is murder, act like it." (After all, Terry has posited, "Wouldn't it have been OK to kill Hitler if you knew you could save millions of Jews?").

Self-identified pro-lifers have celebrated Tiller's murder, leaving hundreds of comments on rightwing blogs (and a good number at progressive and pro-choice blogs, just for good measure). Conservative writer LaShawn Barber gloated at the "irony" of "Tiller the child killer, cultivator of death" being murdered at church. A quick perusal of the front page of ProLifeBlogs.com includes such headlines as "George Tiller has killed his last baby," "Baby killer Tiller shot, killed at church," "Tiller the Killer killed," "Today Tiller the Killer, now a martyr for Molech, met God" and "Tiller shot to death!"

These are not "bad apples". They are symptomatic of (and sometimes the spokespeople for) a larger a movement that is disturbed and dangerous.

While individuals who self-identify as pro-life may be well-meaning and against violence, mainstream pro-life groups and the people who run them do not care about life, before or after birth. And while today anti-choice groups are half-heartedly condemning Tiller's murder, they continue to use the same outlandish and inflammatory rhetoric that inspired and enabled it.

Words mean things. Anti-choicers should certainly have every right to express their views, but they must also realise that actions have consequences and their rhetoric is not harmless. If you yell "Fire!" in a crowded theatre, it's reasonably foreseeable that people will panic and someone will be injured. And if you yell "Murderer!" "Baby-Killer!" and "Holocaust!" long enough, it's reasonably foreseeable that someone will take it upon themselves to make sure that vigilante justice is done (especially if you provide the name and address of the person who you claim is committing "genocide").

This was not the act of a lone extremist. It is one more act of violence to add to a long, long list of crimes committed by anti-choice terrorists, and it is the logical outcome of years of increasingly violent, dehumanising and threatening rhetoric and action on the part of supposedly mainstream pro-life groups. The responsibility for George Tiller's death surely falls on the shoulders of the person who actually pulled the trigger. But when pro-life groups did everything but give him a gun, their hands are hardly clean.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2009/jun/01/george-tiller-abortion-doctor-murder

tonymctones

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Re: Who killed George Tiller?
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2009, 08:13:01 AM »
There are also a number of girls out there that tell stories of how he didnt follow rules and how it was the worst mistake of their lives...

LOL liberal smoke and mirrors, dont blame the nut job blame the ppl they listen to even though they dont advocate violent acts towards these ppl.

LETS CENSOR EVERYONE  ;) oh wait no just the right... ::)


Straw Man

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Re: Who killed George Tiller?
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2009, 08:20:38 AM »
There are also a number of girls out there that tell stories of how he didnt follow rules and how it was the worst mistake of their lives...

LOL liberal smoke and mirrors, dont blame the nut job blame the ppl they listen to even though they dont advocate violent acts towards these ppl.

LETS CENSOR EVERYONE  ;) oh wait no just the right... ::)

so what - does that justify murder.

The guy was never found to be doing anything wrong.  I don't doubt that some woman regret getting an abortion but that doesn't mean this guy was doing anything wrong.  What about the thousands of woman to whom this guy helped?

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Re: Who killed George Tiller?
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2009, 08:30:53 AM »
so what - does that justify murder.

The guy was never found to be doing anything wrong.  I don't doubt that some woman regret getting an abortion but that doesn't mean this guy was doing anything wrong.  What about the thousands of woman to whom this guy helped?


What about the thousands of babies he slaughtered?There were three late term abortion doctors left,one down two to go.BOOOO,HOOO Tiller was shot,ha,ha,ha,good riddance scum bag.

tonymctones

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Re: Who killed George Tiller?
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2009, 08:34:34 AM »
so what - does that justify murder.

The guy was never found to be doing anything wrong.  I don't doubt that some woman regret getting an abortion but that doesn't mean this guy was doing anything wrong.  What about the thousands of woman to whom this guy helped?

Man do you not read?

Im not defending this fack for one second he needs to be brought to justice and dealth with accordingly iono if the death penalty is on the table but if it is, its pretty clear this was premeditated and he needs to recieve the harshest penalty. Dont get me wrong i think this is severely wrong but its also wrong to try and pawn some of this nut bags actions onto religion or fox news like some of you guys are trying to do...a nut job is a nut job and thats all there is to it.

from the other thread about this very same thing

If somebody in the public eye was saying that the doctor should be harmed physically then that person should be held responsible...does christianity advocate that? did oreilly advocate that? NOOOO so your points are nothing more then liberal smoke and mirrors to try and censor ppl... ::)

a nut job is a fuking nut job

Straw Man

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Re: Who killed George Tiller?
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2009, 08:59:27 AM »
Man do you not read?

from the other thread about this very same thing

If somebody in the public eye was saying that the doctor should be harmed physically then that person should be held responsible...does christianity advocate that? did oreilly advocate that? NOOOO so your points are nothing more then liberal smoke and mirrors to try and censor ppl... ::)

a nut job is a fuking nut job

again - I've agreed with.  This man was no doubt a nut job and we'll have to wait to see what the catalyst was.  We already know that he was involved with Operation Rescue which is a self described christian organization

tonymctones

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Re: Who killed George Tiller?
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2009, 09:01:33 AM »
again - I've agreed with.  This man was no doubt a nut job and we'll have to wait to see what the catalyst was.  We already know that he was involved with Operation Rescue which is a self described christian organization
which doesnt matter one bit...HE WAS THE CATALYST not religion... ::)

Decker

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Re: Who killed George Tiller?
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2009, 09:11:00 AM »
Since when is human life of any value on this fucking planet?

We have to save the babies.....why?

What?  Iran might be a threat?  Let's nuke the entire country!

Same for IRaq.

Same for any country with a marginal army and precious resources.

What?  Regulate guns? ! Never!  The right to kill is precious and held near the american heart.

Jesus christ we have thousands of prisoners on death row.  I don't hear anyone ringing the 'life is precious bell' for them.

I think Bill H. got it right.

If you pro-lifers are so concerned with your cause, go join arms and block cemeteries.  Get serious about being pro-life.

It goes without saying that a pro-life murderer is comedy at its sickest point.

Straw Man

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Re: Who killed George Tiller?
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2009, 09:37:36 AM »
which doesnt matter one bit...HE WAS THE CATALYST not religion... ::)

again - we don't yet know his motivation but by your logic the same could be said of all muslim suicide bombers right?

loco

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Re: Who killed George Tiller?
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2009, 09:55:19 AM »
Outside the clinic Monday morning, flowers were placed along a fence, and the anti-abortion group Kansas Coalition for Life left a sign saying members had prayed for Tiller's change of heart, "not his murder."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090601/ap_on_re_us/us_tiller_shooting

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Re: Who killed George Tiller?
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2009, 10:02:17 AM »
Since when is human life of any value on this fucking planet?

We have to save the babies.....why?

What?  Iran might be a threat?  Let's nuke the entire country!

Same for IRaq.

Same for any country with a marginal army and precious resources.

What?  Regulate guns? ! Never!  The right to kill is precious and held near the american heart.

Jesus christ we have thousands of prisoners on death row.  I don't hear anyone ringing the 'life is precious bell' for them.

I think Bill H. got it right.

If you pro-lifers are so concerned with your cause, go join arms and block cemeteries.  Get serious about being pro-life.

It goes without saying that a pro-life murderer is comedy at its sickest point.

Im not pro life!!!Im pro innocent life!!!The scum bag on death row is there for a reason!!The scum bags who flew planes in our buildings are worthy of death!!A baby has done nothing!!Tiller killed babies.He paid for his "sins" with his life.

Straw Man

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Re: Who killed George Tiller?
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2009, 10:14:59 AM »
Im not pro life!!!Im pro innocent life!!!The scum bag on death row is there for a reason!!The scum bags who flew planes in our buildings are worthy of death!!A baby has done nothing!!Tiller killed babies.He paid for his "sins" with his life.

calm down killer

your lunatic fringe buddies agree with you that you have the right to prevent women from obtaining legal abortions when their life is in danger or when they learn they are carrying a fetuses with severe abnormalities

Jebus is saving a special place in heaven for you (oh yeah you're not religious)

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Re: Who killed George Tiller?
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2009, 11:22:17 AM »
calm down killer

your lunatic fringe buddies agree with you that you have the right to prevent women from obtaining legal abortions when their life is in danger or when they learn they are carrying a fetuses with severe abnormalities

Jebus is saving a special place in heaven for you (oh yeah you're not religious)

There has NEVER been an example of a late term abortion that was done to save the mothers life.Not one,not EVER!!!!In fact EVERY doctor that knows anything says that the procedure is the thing that will endanger the mother.This is a blatent lie by the filthy cock sucker left wing.

Late term abortions are dont as a convieniant out by a mother who decides she really doesnt want the baby at the last minute.Stop believing aholes like Keith Olberman.

grab an umbrella

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Re: Who killed George Tiller?
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2009, 11:24:24 AM »
Weak argument regarding deformed babies.  Just because they aren't "normal" means they don't deserve to live?  Also how do you decide that the mother gets to live, and not the baby?

Straw Man

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Re: Who killed George Tiller?
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2009, 11:48:49 AM »
There has NEVER been an example of a late term abortion that was done to save the mothers life.Not one,not EVER!!!!In fact EVERY doctor that knows anything says that the procedure is the thing that will endanger the mother.This is a blatent lie by the filthy cock sucker left wing.

Late term abortions are dont as a convieniant out by a mother who decides she really doesnt want the baby at the last minute.Stop believing aholes like Keith Olberman.

never huh?

I'm doubtful but it doesn't matter to me either way.  This doctor was not violating any laws.  End of story.

If you're against abortion then don't get one but you don't have any right tell other people what to do.

If you think it's murder that's your perogative but then you're not the one who has to live with the consequences (any of them).

If you have a problem with abortion then stop posting on Get Big and go get your law degree and do something about it legally.


Hereford

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Re: Who killed George Tiller?
« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2009, 11:51:05 AM »
You people get way too worked up on this stuff.

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Re: Who killed George Tiller?
« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2009, 11:57:38 AM »
never huh?

I'm doubtful but it doesn't matter to me either way.  This doctor was not violating any laws.  End of story.

If you're against abortion then don't get one but you don't have any right tell other people what to do.

If you think it's murder that's your perogative but then you're not the one who has to live with the consequences (any of them).

If you have a problem with abortion then stop posting on Get Big and go get your law degree and do something about it legally.



What does breaking laws have to do with it.Law means NOTHING to Obama or libs.Take a look at how they dropped the charges against three black panthers who were screaming at white voters "now you know what its like to be ruled by a black man cracker" while brandashing weapons.THEY DROPPED THE CHARGES!!!!Think if they were skinheads the charges would have been dropped.

So,the law is useless against those that make the laws and dont care about it.So,once again,FUCK TILLER!!

By the way,if you think we have the right to do what we want with our bodies why did Joe Biden make sure steroids were made a controlled substance.Oh,thats right,its libs who decide which people get to do what they want with their bodies.

I dont want abortion laws changed!!I want doctors so fucking scared they wont perform them.

loco

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Re: Who killed George Tiller?
« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2009, 12:25:25 PM »
Who killed George Tiller?

I say politicians, who make things like abortion a political issue, blowing it out of proportion, dividing the country for their own political gain. 

People who feel strongly about these issues then get all worked up about them by the politicians and by the media.  It happens in other countries too with many other issues.  I blame politicians.

Decker

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Re: Who killed George Tiller?
« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2009, 12:28:36 PM »
Im not pro life!!!Im pro innocent life!!!The scum bag on death row is there for a reason!!The scum bags who flew planes in our buildings are worthy of death!!A baby has done nothing!!Tiller killed babies.He paid for his "sins" with his life.
There are no innocents in this world.

What, do you think someone just added water and HItler sprung up as is?  He was born that way.

These fucking kids are evil.  Become yourself...they sure as shit did.


Straw Man

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Re: Who killed George Tiller?
« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2009, 12:34:34 PM »
What does breaking laws have to do with it.Law means NOTHING to Obama or libs.Take a look at how they dropped the charges against three black panthers who were screaming at white voters "now you know what its like to be ruled by a black man cracker" while brandashing weapons.THEY DROPPED THE CHARGES!!!!Think if they were skinheads the charges would have been dropped.

So,the law is useless against those that make the laws and dont care about it.So,once again,FUCK TILLER!!

By the way,if you think we have the right to do what we want with our bodies why did Joe Biden make sure steroids were made a controlled substance.Oh,thats right,its libs who decide which people get to do what they want with their bodies.

I dont want abortion laws changed!!I want doctors so fucking scared they wont perform them.


Good Point - Let's pretend for a moment this doctor was breaking the law.

Does that give you the right to take the law in your own hands.

The answer of course is NO.

So you're wrong any way you look at it.

Why don't you just turn yourself in now before YOU do something crazy

Straw Man

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Re: Who killed George Tiller?
« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2009, 12:38:34 PM »
Who killed George Tiller?

I say politicians, who make things like abortion a political issue, blowing it out of proportion, dividing the country for their own political gain. 

People who feel strongly about these issues then get all worked up about them by the politicians and by the media.  It happens in other countries too with many other issues.  I blame politicians.


I blame groups like Operation Rescue who use inflamatory language to rile up their unstable members (the majority I would guess)

These nutbags commits crimes and the Operation Rescue pretends like they have no blame

blacken700

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Re: Who killed George Tiller?
« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2009, 01:00:48 PM »
jesse ventura had it right when he said Organized religion is "a sham" that serves as "a crutch for weak-minded people," according to Minnesota Governor Jesse Ventura. In an interview published in the November issue of Playboy magazine, Ventura said religion "tells people to go out and stick their noses in other people’s business" and adds, "The religious right wants to tell people how to live."


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Re: Who killed George Tiller?
« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2009, 01:07:25 PM »
I blame groups like Operation Rescue who use inflamatory language to rile up their unstable members (the majority I would guess)

These nutbags commits crimes and the Operation Rescue pretends like they have no blame

Yes your right.Obviously groups like code pink,anti-war groups,radical homosexuals,followers of Sharpton,and the like NEVER EVER use radical language or actions.Yes sir,they are the salt of the earth,good hearted people unlike those radical pro-life groups.What a joke.

By the way,I work 8-12 hours a day,watch all my 15 year old sons games,spend time with my wife of 20 years,train to compete in both bodybuilding and powerlifting.I dont have much time to "do something crazy" unlike you unemployed Obama supporters.However,if something ever happened to my wife or son,then you can worry.

tonymctones

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Re: Who killed George Tiller?
« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2009, 01:14:03 PM »
again - we don't yet know his motivation but by your logic the same could be said of all muslim suicide bombers right?
dip shit you dont hold the religion of islam responsible you hold the ding bat that got that crazy ass meaning from it wrong...same here your eagerness to blame religion is very telling of your bias.

loco

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Re: Who killed George Tiller?
« Reply #24 on: June 01, 2009, 01:15:34 PM »
jesse ventura had it right when he said Organized religion is "a sham" that serves as "a crutch for weak-minded people," according to Minnesota Governor Jesse Ventura. In an interview published in the November issue of Playboy magazine, Ventura said religion "tells people to go out and stick their noses in other people’s business" and adds, "The religious right wants to tell people how to live."

That's only because he wants to hire prostitutes and not get in trouble for it with the law.  He wants prostitution legalized and he blames religion for not getting what he wants.    ;)