who trained the hardest - ronnie coleman or dorian yates?

[The Squadfather]

no apparently you havn't seen them train - ronnie did a 800lbs deadlift for 2 reps ( utter failure)- are you telling me you felt he had plenty left in the tank after that?

dorian couldn't dream of that amount of weight, work, effort, intensity or muscle

ronnie also did bench presses in cost of redemption and clearly went to failure. also at weights dorian could never lift on his best day

bluto - you need to admit defeat here. you dont have a leg to stand on.

i agree here, Ronnie handled more weight for more reps on everything but i disagree with Billy Mimnaugh when he said the Ronnie didn't get any help on his benches, Brian Dobson helped him on his benches, inclines and declines on COR, he had fingers on the bar on Ronnie's last 2 reps with 495 and fingers on the bar on reps 8 and 9 on the 405 incline set.

[Bluto]

no apparently you havn't seen them train - ronnie did a 800lbs deadlift for 2 reps ( utter failure)- are you telling me you felt he had plenty left in the tank after that?

dorian couldn't dream of that amount of weight, work, effort, intensity or muscle

ronnie also did bench presses in cost of redemption and clearly went to failure. also at weights dorian could never lift on his best day

bluto - you need to admit defeat here. you dont have a leg to stand on.

if that 2 rep workout was a typical ronnie workout i would agree. but it wasnt.

a typical ronnie workout was 10-12 reps. or 25 reps on his last year.

dorians training style was all about intensity. ronnies wasnt.

not even ronnie himself would claim he was training harder than dorian.

[The Squadfather]

if that 2 rep workout was a typical ronnie workout i would agree. but it wasnt.

a typical ronnie workout was 10-12 reps. or 25 reps on his last year.

dorians training style was all about intensity. ronnies wasnt.

not even ronnie himself would claim he was training harder than dorian.

600-625 for 12 on deadlifts and 600 for 12 on barbell squats is still far more than Dorian could dream of.

[Bluto]

600-625 for 12 on deadlifts and 600 for 12 on barbell squats is still far more than Dorian could dream of.

but maybe ronnie needs to go down to 6 reps to push himself as hard as dorian did?

which would mean even higher weight, but since the weight alone dont mean shit it doesnt matter.

[Hulkster]

How did Dorian get more out of training than Ronnie did?
 

because he tore his arm badly at the start of his olympia reign?

that must be it.

lol

[webcake]

Well i guess there totally different. For all out strength, Ronnie, but for intensity it would have to be Dorian. People make the mistake of thinking that if you are stronger than someone else, you train harder than them. How hard you train all comes down to intensity.

[Bluto]

because he tore his arm badly at the start of his olympia reign?

that must be it.

lol

maybe if ronnie trained as hard as dorian, he would've won even more

his change to 25 reps and training in his own gym for 2007 mr olympia sure didnt help did it

[knny187]

totally agree

[Benny B]

In Ronnies video he does 495 for 10 reps in the bb row[by th eway,REAL bb rows as in bent over] while talking taking the weight out and this is AFTER pulling 800X2.Yates does his rows almost upright with over 100 lbs less.

Yates does 3 plates in the seated smith machine press for 6 good reps,Ronnie does 3 plates in the seated BB press for 12.Its not even close.Yates yells and screams more,but Ronnie is working MUCH harder and putting more effort in it.It reminds me of the scene in pumping Iron when Lou is yelling with his lungs training,but Arnold is grunting from his heart.Yates needs a guy screaming in his ears,Ronnie is by himself flipping up 200 lb dumbells and knocking out 12 reps with them.Not close.

[Hulkster]

maybe if ronnie trained as hard as dorian, he would've won even more

his change to 25 reps and training in his own gym for 2007 mr olympia sure didnt help did it

it probably wouldn't matter if he did the heavy duty style of low reps or lots of reps, he is in his mid 40's now. and he can't change that.


Dorian could never do what Ronnie did for so long.

Ronnie was still winning Mr. O's at an age where dorian was serving the booth at the expos and getting punched in the eyes..lol

[MCWAY]

thats besides the point

No, it's not. When you're talking about bodybuilding, you're talking about training that stimulates the most muscle growth....WITHOUT causing major injuries.

Both Bill Pearl and Lee Haney trained hard and smart. Haney's motto: "Stimulate; don't annhilate". Pearl's motto: "Train, don't strain.

Both build world-class physiques without suffering severe injuries; both won the most prestigious titles of their respective eras; and both men retired, winning their last titles at their best, something that can't be said for either Yates or Coleman.

[RZA]

Difficult to compare the two of them. Yates admitted himself that Ronnie used more weight then ever did. But intensity is relative. I haven't seen that much footage of Ronnie training but from what I've seen, it's like he found some middleground between Yates "powerbuilding" method and the classic high-volume method. I think that without Yates there wouldn't have been a guy like Coleman. Besides, I think Coleman was blessed with much better genetics than Yates, which somehow adds to Yates' merits. Both suffered injuries but Coleman's body gave up much later than Dorian's.

[Bluto]

No, it's not. When you're talking about bodybuilding, you're talking about training that stimulates the most muscle growth....WITHOUT causing major injuries.

Both Bill Pearl and Lee Haney trained hard and smart. Haney's motto: "Stimulate; don't annhilate". Pearl's motto: "Train, don't strain.

Both build world-class physiques without suffering severe injuries; both won the most prestigious titles of their respective eras; and both men retired, winning their last titles at their best, something that can't be said for either Yates or Coleman.

yes it's besides the point.

this thread is about who trained the hardest. period.

[kwri298]

I would say Ronnie all the way.  I've seen all the videos and it's clearly Ronnie.  Since when is high volume not high intensity?  It would be different if Ronnie was doing 25 sets for chest and only benching 135lbs, but that is not the case.  It's easier for me to get under the squat rack and do one heavy ass balls to the wall set than to pump out 25 sets of heavy ass leg presses, squats, hack squats, walking lunges, and leg extensions.  At the end of balls to wall squat session I can walk just fine, but by the end of a hardcare marathon I can barely get out of the gym.

[The Squadfather]

I would say Ronnie all the way.  I've seen all the videos and it's clearly Ronnie.  Since when is high volume not high intensity?  It would be different if Ronnie was doing 25 sets for chest and only benching 135lbs, but that is not the case.  It's easier for me to get under the squat rack and do one heavy ass balls to the wall set than to pump out 25 sets of heavy ass leg presses, squats, hack squats, walking lunges, and leg extensions.  At the end of balls to wall squat session I can walk just fine, but by the end of a hardcare marathon I can barely get out of the gym.

exactly, Ronnie was a freak of nature not only in terms of physique but in his ability to tolerate A LOT of heavy sets and reps, A LOT of food and  ALOT of drugs.

[MCWAY]

I would say Ronnie all the way.  I've seen all the videos and it's clearly Ronnie.  Since when is high volume not high intensity?  It would be different if Ronnie was doing 25 sets for chest and only benching 135lbs, but that is not the case.  It's easier for me to get under the squat rack and do one heavy ass balls to the wall set than to pump out 25 sets of heavy ass leg presses, squats, hack squats, walking lunges, and leg extensions.  At the end of balls to wall squat session I can walk just fine, but by the end of a hardcare marathon I can barely get out of the gym.

Add to the equation the fact that, until recently, all of that training took place in that sweatshop, disguised as a gym, called MetroFlex.

As you've probably noticed, this really isn't about soliticing your opinion (or that of anyone else). Bluto has clearly indicated that mentioning anyone, not named Dorian Yates, constitutes a wrong answer.

And lost in all of this is the fact that bodybuilders get no pats on the head for training "high intensity". It's the end result, not the process that gleaned such, that gets judged onstage.

If you have a better physique than I do and we compete against each other, NOBODY is going to care if I trained "harder" than you.

[Julio Ceasar]

Screaming at the gym is not the same as training hard. Apart from the high rep squat and deadlift there isn't a very hard exercise in the gym. Its just the bad condition of the pro bodybuilders (who can't walk upstairs two flats without reaching max pulse) which make it look so hard.

[Julio Ceasar]

Screaming at the gym is not the same as training hard. Apart from the high rep squat and deadlift there isn't a very hard exercise in the gym. Its just the bad condition of the pro bodybuilders (who can't walk upstairs two flats without reaching max pulse) which make it look so hard.

[dearth]

intensity? ronnie?

screaming "yeah baddy!! " at the top of your lungs does not constitue intensity.

swinging the heaviest weights = training with the highest intensity

is a common newb mistake

[The Squadfather]

intensity? ronnie?

screaming "yeah baddy!! " at the top of your lungs does not constitue intensity.

swinging the heaviest weights = training with the highest intensity

is a common newb mistake

we can't all train as hard as you big guy.

[knny187]

flex trained harder than both of them

[RZA]

flex trained harder than both of them

Yep sure but you forgot to mention my grandmother. She actually had the exact same routine as Flex. She stuck with it for all those years during which she never once went to the gym.

[dearth]

maybe if you put down the cheetos, and actually stepped into a gym
you could contribute.

we can't all train as hard as you big guy.

[kwri298]

intensity? ronnie?

screaming "yeah baddy!! " at the top of your lungs does not constitue intensity.

swinging the heaviest weights = training with the highest intensity

is a common newb mistake

Dorian, Bluto, Squadfather, me and you would be throwing up if we were trying to workout and keep up with Ronnie Coleman.  Squadfather is right, Ronnie Coleman is a freak of nature in terms his ablity to handle tons of volume with very heavy weight.  If anybody in this thread tried to workout like this it would be overtraining and we would not see results (even if we ate the same and took the same amount of drugs).  The majority of the population would clearly benefit more from Yates' approach, because the majority of population does not recover like Ronnie Coleman.  For fucks sake I believe he works each bodypart twice per week.

Ronnie Coleman = A freak of nature
Dorian Yates = A blue colar guy that works out very hard.

[MCWAY]

Dorian, Bluto, Squadfather, me and you would be throwing up if we were trying to workout and keep up with Ronnie Coleman.  Squadfather is right, Ronnie Coleman is a freak of nature in terms his ablity to handle tons of volume with very heavy weight.  If anybody in this thread tried to workout like this it would be overtraining and we would not see results (even if we ate the same and took the same amount of drugs).  The majority of the population would clearly benefit more from Yates' approach, because the majority of population does not recover like Ronnie Coleman.  For fucks sake I believe he works each bodypart twice per week.

Ronnie Coleman = A freak of nature
Dorian Yates = A blue colar guy that works out very hard.

You don't need to be a "freak of nature" to train a bodypart twice a week and recover from such training. Again, I refer to Bill Pearl as a prime example. The volume would likely have to be modest, gradually increasing over time. And, training to failure would have to be done sparingly or eliminated.

BTW, wouldn't Ronnie also qualify as a blue-collar guy? After all, he used to be a full-time police officer and was such during his first three years as Mr. Olympia.