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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Lustral on July 17, 2014, 03:13:58 PM
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It is so obvious separatists in Ukraine/Russian "volunteers" shot down the Malaysian Airlines flight. It is known that Russia recently gave separatists SAM with the capability to reach 15000m with a 45k range. Earlier there were news stories on Russian media re separatists shooting Ukrainian military airplane that were removed when it was learned it was a civilian airline.
Now Obama has called it a "terrible tragedy" after talking to Putin. I would be embarrassed if I was American. You are being walked on by Putin and laughed at. What a coward, he would have waved the Russians through in 1962 saying they were taking a vacation in Cuba.
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It is so obvious separatists in Ukraine/Russian "volunteers" shot down the Malaysian Airlines flight. It is known that Russia recently gave separatists SAM with the capability to reach 15000m with a 45k range. Earlier there were news stories on Russian media re separatists shooting Ukrainian military airplane that were removed when it was learned it was a civilian airline.
Now Obama has called it a "terrible tragedy" after talking to Putin. I would be embarrassed if I was American. You are being walked on by Putin and laughed at. What a coward, he would have waved the Russians through in 1962 saying they were taking a vacation in Cuba.
Why should Obama or the USA do anything about it?
What business is that of ours?
Besides, what money is there to gain for the US getting involved with this? If it's the middle east, at least we know that we can establish military bases strategically surrounding large oil reserves that we can then negotiate deals for.
If Russian and the Ukraine go at it civil war style, why should we risk nuclear war with Putin? What would the US gain out of it?
I stand on the fence, but I'd like to hear your thoughts.
I think the USA should stay out of matters around the world that does not concern them or the safety of their citizens. If we do get involved in stopping terrorism across the Ukraine and Russia, we also need to get into:
Africa and stop the 40,000+ deaths that are occurring every month within the Congo.
North Korea and disarm their Nukes
China to stop the child slave labor and communist regime still present in certain regions
Iran and have them disarm today, not in however long they desire
Detroit
"1"
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It is so obvious separatists in Ukraine/Russian "volunteers" shot down the Malaysian Airlines flight. It is known that Russia recently gave separatists SAM with the capability to reach 15000m with a 45k range. Earlier there were news stories on Russian media re separatists shooting Ukrainian military airplane that were removed when it was learned it was a civilian airline.
Now Obama has called it a "terrible tragedy" after talking to Putin. I would be embarrassed if I was American. You are being walked on by Putin and laughed at. What a coward, he would have waved the Russians through in 1962 saying they were taking a vacation in Cuba.
::)
KILL YOURSELF
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It is so obvious separatists in Ukraine/Russian "volunteers" shot down the Malaysian Airlines flight. It is known that Russia recently gave separatists SAM with the capability to reach 15000m with a 45k range. Earlier there were news stories on Russian media re separatists shooting Ukrainian military airplane that were removed when it was learned it was a civilian airline.
Now Obama has called it a "terrible tragedy" after talking to Putin. I would be embarrassed if I was American. You are being walked on by Putin and laughed at. What a coward, he would have waved the Russians through in 1962 saying they were taking a vacation in Cuba.
Idiot.
Lets all have WW3. 200 plus dead or 20 million.
Russia needs to back away from the separatists very quickly but that's all that will happen and should happen. They might hit the separatists hard but Obama doesn't want a war with Russia and he also knows that the Russian people won't back down from a fight. Their mindset is not the same as ours, they will go for it and fcuk the consequences.
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Bring back Ronnie Raygun! (the equivalent)
(http://www.britannica.com/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/0000077978-reagan012-004.jpg)
Maybe Marty Champions could take over
(http://cdn.ph.upi.com/pv/upi/324df7dce14742060b919f6cc874e084/Ronald-Reagan.jpg)
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Idiot.
Lets all have WW3. 200 plus dead or 20 million.
Russia needs to back away from the separatists very quickly but that's all that will happen and should happen. They might hit the separatists hard but Obama doesn't want a war with Russia and he also knows that the Russian people won't back down from a fight. Their mindset is not the same as ours, they will go for it and fcuk the consequences.
They backed down from Kennedy.
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::)
KILL YOURSELF
Quiet Benny (aka lurker). You support terrorism the same way your boy Obama does
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They backed down from Kennedy.
That is a total non sequitur.
And even if was not, who wants to live through a true Cold War? Paranoia, money diverted to arms instead of causes that benefit real people, and infinitely less global opportunity.
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Idiot.
Lets all have WW3. 200 plus dead or 20 million.
Russia needs to back away from the separatists very quickly but that's all that will happen and should happen. They might hit the separatists hard but Obama doesn't want a war with Russia and he also knows that the Russian people won't back down from a fight. Their mindset is not the same as ours, they will go for it and fcuk the consequences.
OK this quote is for first three replies, however this one is the most retarded and completely missed my point.
If it was a deliberate act as a result of Russian actions (encouraging revolt and supplying the weapons used) is it not a complete negation of responsibilities for the US president to call it a tragedy? The Netherlands are a NATO country and the flight left from Amsterdam with Dutch passengers.
If unsure, say we await conclusive determination. If it is Russian involvement, direct or indirect, condemn it, justify recent sanctions and use it as leverage to force Russia out of Ukraine (who the fuck can support shooting down an Asian airline... you know, near China, Russia's friend). You can back Putin into an apology but Obama missed a trick.
Next time you reply use your head.
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how is it known that the separatists were given SAM by Russia? also how would it help their cause shooting this plane down?
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how is it known that the separatists were given SAM by Russia? also how would it help their cause shooting this plane down?
It is known they got these SAMS, buk or something, can't recall name, recently. Prior to this they had lesser SAMS like shoulder mounted things. They had no clue it was Malaysian airlines hence the initial boasting about shooting a Ukrainian military craft being removed from Russian media.
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OK this quote is for first three replies, however this one is the most retarded and completely missed my point.
If it was a deliberate act as a result of Russian actions (encouraging revolt and supplying the weapons used) is it not a complete negation of responsibilities for the US president to call it a tragedy? The Netherlands are a NATO country and the flight left from Amsterdam with Dutch passengers.
If unsure, say we await conclusive determination. If it is Russian involvement, direct or indirect, condemn it, justify recent sanctions and use it as leverage to force Russia out of Ukraine (who the fuck can support shooting down an Asian airline... you know, near China, Russia's friend). You can back Putin into an apology but Obama missed a trick.
Next time you reply use your head.
You have zero understanding of the Russian mindset.
It is clearly indirect involvement and the Russians will probably (hopefully) back off. But to suggest Obama should wade in and escalate is risible.
I'd say use your own head but that probably won't solve your failure to grasp what is important.
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how is it known that the separatists were given SAM by Russia? also how would it help their cause shooting this plane down?
It is a giant fuck up for Russia. They may well back away now.
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It is so obvious separatists in Ukraine/Russian "volunteers" shot down the Malaysian Airlines flight. It is known that Russia recently gave separatists SAM with the capability to reach 15000m with a 45k range. Earlier there were news stories on Russian media re separatists shooting Ukrainian military airplane that were removed when it was learned it was a civilian airline.
Now Obama has called it a "terrible tragedy" after talking to Putin. I would be embarrassed if I was American. You are being walked on by Putin and laughed at. What a coward, he would have waved the Russians through in 1962 saying they were taking a vacation in Cuba.
Yes. Let's start a war with Russia over a downed flight before facts are in. Fuck me. Shrewd. ::)
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You have zero understanding of the Russian mindset.
It is clearly indirect involvement and the Russians will probably (hopefully) back off. But to suggest Obama should wade in and escalate is risible.
I'd say use your own head but that probably won't solve your failure to grasp what is important.
I said it was indirect involvement but stopping that indirect involvement strips separatists of any real force.
As for Obama, did Bush call 9/11 a tragedy and absolve anyone of blame? He should have held his cards or played his hand, instead he has backed off before knowing or backed off knowing, which would be worse.
Please, tell me of the Russian mindset, I would love to hear your tales Mr Philby.
PS for those saying I advocate war, read my posts you dumb fucks.
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president plamer wouldn't have stood for this
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_wSPANO5qmhk/SRODRHR0ITI/AAAAAAAAAp0/HtFHoA-REWA/s320/DavidPalmer2.jpg)
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I believe there were 21 Americans on board.
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Do really believe Obama makes these decisions? He is a front man for the Globalists. He does what he's told. Russia WILL expand and eventually there will be a modern version of U.S.S.R. Russia can fuck alot of countries up because of the gas pipelines. They'll be at Russia's beckoning. U.S.A is intentionally being crashed. There will be a North American Union consisting of USA, Mexico, and Canada perhaps some other territories may join. They want more power in less hands. There will eventually be one world government. But there will be World War III before all this happens and hundreds of millions will die. But that is what they want. The population to be around 500 million. We currently sit at over 7 billion people. There soft killing and dumbing people down through the GMO food, water and medications. People are being intentionally distracted through entertainment, sports and other shit that ultimately means nothing. The U.S. is hit so hard because we are the strongest country. Also, they love to divide and conquer through race, gender, sexuality and of course religion. Then there's the coming police state. Look around at your police departments in the U.S. Look at the new equipment they've acquired from the federal government. Look how the violence has increased and once taboo things are now mainstream. We're seeing more pedophilia both ways. Once the dollar crashes and it will sooner than later, they'll have to declare martial law. There will be another false flag of some type a very large one. It could be a massive attack that takes out all the computers for a time, nuke on U.S. soil, A natural disaster or space related disaster. And lets not forget what's going on on our boarders right now and how that will affect crime, taxes, and unknowns. Anyway, Obama was chosen to be president. He wasn't voted in. Your vote on that level means nothing. More to come.
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I said it was indirect involvement but stopping that indirect involvement strips separatists of any real force.
As for Obama, did Bush call 9/11 a tragedy and absolve anyone of blame? He should have held his cards or played his hand, instead he has backed off before knowing or backed off knowing, which would be worse.
Please, tell me of the Russian mindset, I would love to hear your tales Mr Philby.
PS for those saying I advocate war, read my posts you dumb fucks.
Apples and Oranges....
Bush took advantage of the 911 attacks to get into Iraq in order to have a strategic positioning of our military for the goal of attaining oil.
Iraq had shit all to do with the 911 attacks.
Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction.
Bush was told what to do (By smarter individuals like Cheney) and he did it.
This is a more delicate issue involving Russia. Putin is a fucking animal and a professional criminal (as a former or, better said, present KGB member). Obama, as well as any other other US president needs to be very careful with Russia.
Could the USA beat Russia in an all out war (if it ever came to that)? Sure. Would it present a massive amount of casualties? Yes.
It's Russia's nukes that Obama and the rest of the world fears.
They don't have an airforce, navy or significant soldiers on the ground to even touch the USA, but they do have those darn nukes.
All this aside, Putin has always had a way when addressing Obama, a way that I think he would have towards just about any US president.
"1"
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Do really believe Obama makes these decisions? He is a front man for the Globalists. He does what he's told. Russia WILL expand and eventually there will be a modern version of U.S.S.R. Russia can fuck alot of countries up because of the gas pipelines. They'll be at Russia's beckoning. U.S.A is intentionally being crashed. There will be a North American Union consisting of USA, Mexico, and Canada perhaps some other territories may join. They want more power in less hands. There will eventually be one world government. But there will be World War III before all this happens and hundreds of millions will die. But that is what they want. The population to be around 500 million. We currently sit at over 7 billion people. There soft killing and dumbing people down through the GMO food, water and medications. People are being intentionally distracted through entertainment, sports and other shit that ultimately means nothing. The U.S. is hit so hard because we are the strongest country. Also, they love to divide and conquer through race, gender, sexuality and of course religion. Then there's the coming police state. Look around at your police departments in the U.S. Look at the new equipment they've acquired from the federal government. Look how the violence has increased and once taboo things are now mainstream. We're seeing more pedophilia both ways. Once the dollar crashes and it will sooner than later, they'll have to declare martial law. There will be another false flag of some type a very large one. It could be a massive attack that takes out all the computers for a time, nuke on U.S. soil, A natural disaster or space related disaster. And lets not forget what's going on on our boarders right now and how that will affect crime, taxes, and unknowns. Anyway, Obama was chosen to be president. He wasn't voted in. Your vote on that level means nothing. More to come.
10% FACT!
89% Internet conspiracy/paranoia
1% Proprietary Wiggs' Hebrew Bible
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Apples and Oranges....
Bush took advantage of the 911 attacks to get into Iraq in order to have a strategic positioning of our military for the goal of attaining oil.
Iraq had shit all to do with the 911 attacks.
Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction.
Bush was told what to do (By smarter individuals like Cheney) and he did it.
This is a more delicate issue involving Russia. Putin is a fucking animal and a professional criminal (as a former or, better said, present KGB member). Obama, as well as any other other US president needs to be very careful with Russia.
Could the USA beat Russia in an all out war (if it ever came to that)? Sure. Would it present a massive amount of casualties? Yes.
It's Russia's nukes that Obama and the rest of the world fears.
They don't have an airforce, navy or significant soldiers on the ground to even touch the USA, but they do have those darn nukes.
All this aside, Putin has always had a way when addressing Obama, a way that I think he would have towards just about any US president.
"1"
I regretted the Bush analogy soon as I typed it but my point was it is good to have someone who calls a spade a spade. Bush called a spade a club and invaded the club.
War with China or Russia is off the table for all parties, USA>Russia>China in military terms, but one nuke is enough to start chaos. That said, USA has been using sanctions against Russia which the EU can try but not enforce (we depend on Russian gas). USA disapproves of Russia's actions and here is the embodiment of their actions - separatists (ie yahoos) armed with military hardware accidentally blowing up a civilian airline. Nothing tragic, it was a direct result of Russia arming unaccountable rebels.
Sad thing is, the truth of what happened might never come out. Ukraine will blame Russia and say they found proof, Russia will blame Ukraine and say Ukraine investigation was biased.
PS Wiggs please use paragraphs.
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Apples and Oranges....
Bush took advantage of the 911 attacks to get into Iraq in order to have a strategic positioning of our military for the goal of attaining oil.
Iraq had shit all to do with the 911 attacks.
Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction.
Bush was told what to do (By smarter individuals like Cheney) and he did it.
This is a more delicate issue involving Russia. Putin is a fucking animal and a professional criminal (as a former or, better said, present KGB member). Obama, as well as any other other US president needs to be very careful with Russia.
Could the USA beat Russia in an all out war (if it ever came to that)? Sure. Would it present a massive amount of casualties? Yes.
It's Russia's nukes that Obama and the rest of the world fears.
They don't have an airforce, navy or significant soldiers on the ground to even touch the USA, but they do have those darn nukes.
All this aside, Putin has always had a way when addressing Obama, a way that I think he would have towards just about any US president.
"1"
Nicely put. In a country defined by shakedowns, Putin is King.
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Apples and Oranges....
Bush took advantage of the 911 attacks to get into Iraq in order to have a strategic positioning of our military for the goal of attaining oil.
Iraq had shit all to do with the 911 attacks.
Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction.
Bush was told what to do (By smarter individuals like Cheney) and he did it.
This is a more delicate issue involving Russia. Putin is a fucking animal and a professional criminal (as a former or, better said, present KGB member). Obama, as well as any other other US president needs to be very careful with Russia.
Could the USA beat Russia in an all out war (if it ever came to that)? Sure. Would it present a massive amount of casualties? Yes.
It's Russia's nukes that Obama and the rest of the world fears.
They don't have an airforce, navy or significant soldiers on the ground to even touch the USA, but they do have those darn nukes.
All this aside, Putin has always had a way when addressing Obama, a way that I think he would have towards just about any US president.
"1"
Excellent post, especially surmising the tactical situatio. Russias military couldnt hold a candle to ours and they know it, however, that makes it that much easier for them to decide to use the nukes at will.
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I regretted the Bush analogy soon as I typed it but my point was it is good to have someone who calls a spade a spade. Bush called a spade a club and invaded the club.
War with China or Russia is off the table for all parties, USA>Russia>China in military terms, but one nuke is enough to start chaos. That said, USA has been using sanctions against Russia which the EU can try but not enforce (we depend on Russian gas). USA disapproves of Russia's actions and here is the embodiment of their actions - separatists (ie yahoos) armed with military hardware accidentally blowing up a civilian airline. Nothing tragic, it was a direct result of Russia arming unaccountable rebels.
Sad thing is, the truth of what happened might never come out. Ukraine will blame Russia and say they found proof, Russia will blame Ukraine and say Ukraine investigation was biased.
PS Wiggs please use paragraphs.
Granted, do I think that Obama should have a little more testicular fortitude and actually command respect across the world? Absolutely.
Do I think that he is confused and doesn't have a true foreign policy, which in turn makes us look foolish in our stance as a global power? Yes.
Do I think there is a perfect answer in how to properly deal with Russia? No. Putin is a bad mothefucker and I think that while we can beat the shit out of them in all out war, it won't be before a few of his nukes erase a few major US cities/states.
Russia is just too complicated. I think we would have more success in dealing with both Iran and North Korea, than we would towards Russia.
"1"
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10% FACT!
89% Internet conspiracy/paranoia
1% Proprietary Wiggs' Hebrew Bible
I don't expect you to "get it" you blithering idiot. So sling some poo or whatever it is you do.
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I regretted the Bush analogy soon as I typed it but my point was it is good to have someone who calls a spade a spade. Bush called a spade a club and invaded the club.
War with China or Russia is off the table for all parties, USA>Russia>China in military terms, but one nuke is enough to start chaos. That said, USA has been using sanctions against Russia which the EU can try but not enforce (we depend on Russian gas). USA disapproves of Russia's actions and here is the embodiment of their actions - separatists (ie yahoos) armed with military hardware accidentally blowing up a civilian airline. Nothing tragic, it was a direct result of Russia arming unaccountable rebels.
Sad thing is, the truth of what happened might never come out. Ukraine will blame Russia and say they found proof, Russia will blame Ukraine and say Ukraine investigation was biased.
PS Wiggs please use paragraphs.
There is likely proof already based on our ability to listen to just about everything. Any communicative transmissions will be vetted one way or another but of course they will point fingers at each other without concrete proof on the table. One way or another Russia is responsible and if Americans were killed our president should not remain silent. Reagan smartly used the Korean airline incident to further vilify the iron curtain. Obama can do the exact same thing and lead a global shaming and further alienation of Putin and his minions.
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There is likely proof already based on our ability to listen to just about everything. Any communicative transmissions will be vetted one way or another but of course they will point fingers at each other without concrete proof on the table. One way or another Russia is responsible and if Americans were killed our president should not remain silent. Reagan smartly used the Korean airline incident to further vilify the iron curtain. Obama can do the exact same thing and lead a global shaming of Putin and his minions.
This is what I'm getting at. OMR's last post deserves mentioning. Putin is a sly bastard but here is a perfect chance to exert pressure on him and mock his "plausible deniability" about arming separatists. 10000m high plane flying at 470 knots? You need advanced hardware to do that, not the shit "rebels" have. Couple that with removing stories from Russian media and you can bet your ass Russia regrets this and here is a chance to put a mirror up to their activities. Calling it a terrible tragedy gives them an out.
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OK I see now Biden is saying it was shot down.
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This is what I'm getting at. OMR's last post deserves mentioning. Putin is a sly bastard but here is a perfect chance to exert pressure on him and mock his "plausible deniability" about arming separatists. 10000m high plane flying at 470 knots? You need advanced hardware to do that, not the shit "rebels" have. Couple that with removing stories from Russian media and you can bet your ass Russia regrets this and here is a chance to put a mirror up to their activities. Calling it a terrible tragedy gives them an out.
Agree fully and I can't say I'm surprised that potus is at a dem fund raiser even with the addition of what's going on in Israel. ::)
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Granted, do I think that Obama should have a little more testicular fortitude and actually command respect across the world? Absolutely.
Do I think that he is confused and doesn't have a true foreign policy, which in turn makes us look foolish in our stance as a global power? Yes.
Do I think there is a perfect answer in how to properly deal with Russia? No. Putin is a bad mothefucker and I think that while we can beat the shit out of them in all out war, it won't be before a few of his nukes erase a few major US cities/states.
Russia is just too complicated. I think we would have more success in dealing with both Iran and North Korea, than we would towards Russia.
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I'd use the word 'stifled.' Sometimes smart people over-complicate things and get hung up in wonk. Clinton? Huge example. Obama, with no real foreign policy experience, got rear-ended by realpolitik. No surprises, there.
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I'd use the word 'stifled.' Sometimes smart people over-complicate things and get hung up in wonk. Clinton? Huge example. Obama, with no real foreign policy experience, got rear-ended by realpolitik. No surprises, there.
[/quote
I think Obama saw how antagonised most traditional allies were by the US invasion of Iraq, had his story of opposing said war, and used that as a framework for his foreign policy. Don't offend others. He isn't quite waving white paper while alighting from a plane but I could see him doing it.
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I'd use the word 'stifled.' Sometimes smart people over-complicate things and get hung up in wonk. Clinton? Huge example. Obama, with no real foreign policy experience, got rear-ended by realpolitik. No surprises, there.
[/quote
I think Obama saw how antagonised most traditional allies were by the US invasion of Iraq, had his story of opposing said war, and used that as a framework for his foreign policy. Don't offend others. He isn't quite waving white paper while alighting from a plane but I could see him doing it.
Agree. If memory serves, his first call was to the Palestinian guy, so he tried to be the appeaser, the repairer of US relations abroad. Might have worked, but with an GOP Congress and his second-guessing (except for bin Laden, which was totally decisive) he was second-rate.
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Why should Obama or the USA do anything about it?
What business is that of ours?
Besides, what money is there to gain for the US getting involved with this? If it's the middle east, at least we know that we can establish military bases strategically surrounding large oil reserves that we can then negotiate deals for.
If Russian and the Ukraine go at it civil war style, why should we risk nuclear war with Putin? What would the US gain out of it?
I stand on the fence, but I'd like to hear your thoughts.
I think the USA should stay out of matters around the world that does not concern them or the safety of their citizens. If we do get involved in stopping terrorism across the Ukraine and Russia, we also need to get into:
Africa and stop the 40,000+ deaths that are occurring every month within the Congo.
North Korea and disarm their Nukes
China to stop the child slave labor and communist regime still present in certain regions
Iran and have them disarm today, not in however long they desire
Detroit
"1"
Ukraine is strategically important geographically I believe. I think that's why our leaders are so hard-pressed to have regime change there.
Published in 1997:
The Eurasian Chessboard: Brzezinski Mapped Out “The Battle for Ukraine” in 1997
By Chris Ernesto
Global Research, March 16, 2014
It’s all about maintaining the US position as the world’s sole superpower
Why would the United States run the risk of siding with anti-Semitic, neo-Nazis in Ukraine?
One of the keys may be found by looking back at Zbigniew Brzezinski’s 1997 book, The Grand Chessboard in which he wrote, “Ukraine, a new and important space on the Eurasian chessboard, is a geopolitical pivot because its very existence as an independent country helps to transform Russia. Without Ukraine, Russia ceases to be a Eurasian empire.”
“However, if Moscow regains control over Ukraine, with its 52 million people and major resources as well as access to the Black Sea, Russia automatically again regains the wherewithal to become a powerful imperial state, spanning Europe and Asia.”
The former national security advisor to Jimmy Carter from 1977 to 1981 and top foreign policy advisor to Barack Obama, Brzezinski wrote that US policy should be “unapologetic” in perpetuating “America’s own dominant position for at least a generation and preferably longer still.”
Brzezinski delved into the importance of little known Ukraine by explaining in his 1997 book, “Geopolitical pivots are the states whose importance is derived not from their power and motivation but rather from their sensitive location… which in some cases gives them a special role in either defining access to important areas or in denying resources to a significant player.”
“Ukraine, Azerbaijan, South Korea, Turkey and Iran play the role of critically important geopolitical pivots,” he wrote in The Grand Chessboard, a book viewed by many as a blueprint for US world domination.
Brzezinski wrote that Eurasia is “the chessboard on which the struggle for global primacy continues to be played,” and that “it is imperative that no Eurasian challenger emerges, capable of dominating Eurasia and thus also of challenging America.”
Understanding Brzezinski’s long-term view of Ukraine makes it easier to comprehend why the US has given $5 billion to Ukraine since 1991, and why today it is hyper-concerned about having Ukraine remain in its sphere of influence.
It may also help explain why in the past year the US and many of its media outlets have feverishly demonized Vladimir Putin.
By prominently highlighting the mistreatment of activist group Pussy Riot, incessantly condemning Russia’s regressive position on gay rights, and excessively focusing on substandard accommodations at the Sochi Olympic Games, the Obama administration has cleverly distracted the public from delving into US support of the ultra-nationalist, neo-Nazi factions of the Ukrainian opposition, and has made it palatable for Americans to accept the US narrative on Ukraine.
Interestingly enough, it was Brzezinski who first compared Putin to Hitler in a March 3 Washington Post Editorial. Hillary Clinton followed-up the next day with her comments comparing the two, followed by John McCain and Marco Rubio who on March 5 agreed with Clinton’s comments comparing Putin and Hitler. Apparently Brzezinski still continues to influence US political speak.
In his book, Brzezinski contends that “America stands supreme in the four decisive domains of global power: militarily… economically… technologically… and culturally.”
While this may have been accurate in 1997, it can be argued that today, other than militarily, the US no longer reigns supreme in these domains.
So late last year when Ukraine’s now-ousted president Viktor Yanukovych surprisingly canceled plans for Ukrainian integration into the European Union in favor of stronger ties with Russia, the US may have viewed Ukraine as slipping even further out of its reach.
At that point, with the pieces already in place, the US moved to support the ousting of Yanukovych, as evidenced by the leaked phone conversation between US Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland and US Ambassador to Ukraine Geoffrey Pyatt. When peaceful protests were not effective in unseating Yanukovych, the violence of the ultra-nationalist Svoboda party and Right Sector was embraced, if not supported by the west.
In today’s Ukraine, the US runs the risk of being affiliated with anti-Semitic neo-Nazis, a prospect it probably feels can be controlled via a friendly western media. But even if the risk is high, the US likely views it as necessary given the geopolitical importance of Ukraine, as Brzezinski mapped out in 1997.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/theme/us-nato-war-agenda
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It is so obvious separatists in Ukraine/Russian "volunteers" shot down the Malaysian Airlines flight. It is known that Russia recently gave separatists SAM with the capability to reach 15000m with a 45k range. Earlier there were news stories on Russian media re separatists shooting Ukrainian military airplane that were removed when it was learned it was a civilian airline.
Now Obama has called it a "terrible tragedy" after talking to Putin. I would be embarrassed if I was American. You are being walked on by Putin and laughed at. What a coward, he would have waved the Russians through in 1962 saying they were taking a vacation in Cuba.
Hi John McCain :D
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Hi John McCain :D
I'm pro steroids, not McCain. I also am not on the Indian bandwagon if that Spacey movie is factually accurate.
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CHICAGO
OAKLAND
DETROIT
BALTIMORE
AFRICA
NORTH KOREA
Fuck the middle east and there oil, take ANWAR turn it into a co-operative privately ran yet publicly owned to deliver oil and gas to the American people at a low cost and any profits made should go to education and building a sound infrastructure that can ween us off fossil fuels and on renewable energy. That is my 20 year plan. HTH
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CHICAGO
OAKLAND
DETROIT
BALTIMORE
AFRICA
NORTH KOREA
Fuck the middle east and there oil, take ANWAR turn it into a co-operative privately ran yet publicly owned to deliver oil and gas to the American people at a low cost and any profits made should go to education and building a sound infrastructure that can ween us off fossil fuels and on renewable energy. That is my 20 year plan. HTH
USA had great success with fracking from my perspective. You lead the way and show it is not only possible but hugely viable and profitable. Ireland UK see this example. Result? F a gs protesting and government sat with thumbs up ass while Russia, Qatar et al denude us of any dignity for gas/oil.
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USA had great success with fracking from my perspective. You lead the way and show it is not only possible but hugely viable and profitable. Ireland UK see this example. Result? F a gs protesting and government sat with thumbs up ass while Russia, Qatar et al denude us of any dignity for gas/oil.
Yes! Let's destroy watertables willy-nilly. Do have any sober, second-thought(s)?
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Yes! Let's destroy watertables willy-nilly. Do have any sober, second-thought(s)?
Water is a real problem in Ireland.... as is the temperature. Mild weather country of peace. We saw mistakes US made,we are failing to see benefits...we can learn from guinea pigs without any pitfalls of same climate.
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Water is a real problem in Ireland.... as is the temperature. Mild weather country of peace. We saw mistakes US made,we are failing to see benefits...we can learn from guinea pigs without any pitfalls of same climate.
Fracking doesn't include any nuance. Sell somewhere else.
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Yes! Let's destroy watertables willy-nilly. Do have any sober, second-thought(s)?
I'd also add that you live in a country with oil, gas and uranium with oil, gas and nuclear power plants, assuming you're American. I live in a country with minimal gas, basically no oil and no uranium with no power plants for domestic fuels. If there is a crisis in the middle east we hear there are three weeks reserve. Imagine being Ukranian and relying on Russian gas for your lights to turn on. Very few countries are net fuel producers and would be fucked in such circumstances.
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I'd also add that you live in a country with oil, gas and uranium with oil, gas and nuclear power plants, assuming you're American. I live in a country with minimal gas, basically no oil and no uranium with no power plants for domestic fuels. If there is a crisis in the middle east we hear there are three weeks reserve. Imagine being Ukranian and relying on Russian gas for your lights to turn on. Very few countries are net fuel producers and would be fucked in such circumstances.
Your point? Destroy the environment rather than pay global market prices? good call. Pretty sure Ireland has lately cornered the market on parochial economic thinking. Awesome results. Maybe, sit this one out? :-\
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Your point? Destroy the environment rather than pay global market prices? good call. Pretty sure Ireland has lately cornered the market on parochial economic thinking. Awesome results. Maybe, sit this one out? :-\
My point was here. Yours was here. Point missed. My point was to have the capacity to exploit what resources we have when necessary so that we are not held at gunpoint by dictatorships like Russia for commodities. Furthermore you can't comprehend how catastrophic it would be for countries with limited natural resources to be cut off.
Water tables fall out of the equation. You go a week without electricity and tell me your give a shit some river is being polluted.
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My point was here. Yours was here. Point missed. My point was to have the capacity to exploit what resources we have when necessary so that we are not held at gunpoint by dictatorships like Russia for commodities. Furthermore you can't comprehend how catastrophic it would be for countries with limited natural resources to be cut off.
Water tables fall out of the equation. You go a week without electricity and tell me your give a shit some river is being polluted.
Cool. Exploit away. History could always use another regrettable narrative. :)
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Cool. Exploit away. History could always use another regrettable narrative. :)
Ireland is prob best known for JFK and property crash. We are a tiny nation, we won't affect the climate, though we pay massive carbon taxes and fines if we exceed ideal emissions. We are close to an emergency. I recycle diligently and produce fuck all waste, but I know what I need and what fulfils that need.
Hopefully it is a storm in a teacup, but I had a bad feeling hearing this story.
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Why should Obama or the USA do anything about it?
What business is that of ours?
Besides, what money is there to gain for the US getting involved with this? If it's the middle east, at least we know that we can establish military bases strategically surrounding large oil reserves that we can then negotiate deals for.
If Russian and the Ukraine go at it civil war style, why should we risk nuclear war with Putin? What would the US gain out of it?
I stand on the fence, but I'd like to hear your thoughts.
I think the USA should stay out of matters around the world that does not concern them or the safety of their citizens. If we do get involved in stopping terrorism across the Ukraine and Russia, we also need to get into:
Africa and stop the 40,000+ deaths that are occurring every month within the Congo.
North Korea and disarm their Nukes
China to stop the child slave labor and communist regime still present in certain regions
Iran and have them disarm today, not in however long they desire
Detroit
"1"
What oil deals have we negotiated by putting a military bases by a middle east oil fields?
We should have demanded every drop of oil out of Iraq but we didn't demand an ounce.
I do agree with you that we have to stop being involved in others conflicts. We also shouldn't be the world's police men. We tried to pick a winner with Eqypt and got the Muslim Brotherhood in charge after the government that was friendly with the US over thrown. The Muslim Brother hood then went on a killing mission against Christian Egyptians. We provided arms to Libya rebels trying to pick a winner and those arms were suspected in Benghazi. Now we provided arms to Syrian rebels and those arms are showing up in Iraq. When both sides are no good we shouldn't be trying to pick a winner. Putin said in effect the same thing about Syria.
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Ireland is prob best known for JFK and property crash. We are a tiny nation, we won't affect the climate, though we pay massive carbon taxes and fines if we exceed ideal emissions. We are close to an emergency. I recycle diligently and produce fuck all waste, but I know what I need and what fulfils that need.
Hopefully it is a storm in a teacup, but I had a bad feeling hearing this story.
Energy/fuel bills/ civil bond issue are a zero sum game. :-\
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Looks like obama saw sense and took my posts on board.
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Ireland is prob best known for JFK and property crash. We are a tiny nation, we won't affect the climate, though we pay massive carbon taxes and fines if we exceed ideal emissions. We are close to an emergency. I recycle diligently and produce fuck all waste, but I know what I need and what fulfils that need.
Hopefully it is a storm in a teacup, but I had a bad feeling hearing this story.
wine? :D
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http://www.infowars.com/video-did-ukraine-fabricate-evidence-to-frame-russia-for-mh17-shoot-down/
check this out!
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Who benefits? ???
Russia certainly doesn't.
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how is it known that the separatists were given SAM by Russia? also how would it help their cause shooting this plane down?
I was watching TYT and Cenk gave some good reasons why Russia may have given surface-to-air missiles to the rebels <- I don't take that as gospel, but some interesting facts in there. But as for how it would help their cause. It doesn't. These rebels aren't military trained and can't tell a jet from a passenger airliner. There is a recording between their commander and some of the grunts when they find out that they hit a civilian plane, and everyone is shocked and trying to find a way to make it seem like it was the Malaysia flight's fault for being shot down (carrying spies and whatnot). http://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2014/jul/18/mh17-recording-russian-colonel-rebels-discuss-disaster-video (http://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2014/jul/18/mh17-recording-russian-colonel-rebels-discuss-disaster-video). Russia is also holding the black box from the plane right now, which makes it seem like maybe they had something to do with it.
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Who benefits? ???
Russia certainly doesn't.
No one benefits. If Russia was smart they'd distance themselves from the rebels right about now.
The people who actually shot the rockets are idiots with weaponry they shouldn't be allowed to operate. No military training and all anger against Ukraine.
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Obama is clearly... fucking with your mind ::)
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It's becoming obvious Russia has something over USA that can not be disclosed, that's why we see Obama obeying Putin's commands.
hot mic of peace
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tbf the US has probably killed more innocents worldwide than all other nations put together in the last decade or so. so probably not really their place to start pointing the finger now.
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tbf the US has probably killed more innocents worldwide than all other nations put together in the last decade or so. so probably not really their place to start pointing the finger now.
Lol, no, not a chance. Still not our place to be world police, but to say we've killed more innocents than every nation combined in the last decade is a little sensationalist.
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Do really believe Obama makes these decisions?
This. It cracks me up when sheeple tend to think Obama is the most powerful man on the planet and has the power to decide AYNTHING of importance. Obama is an actor, that's it. :D
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tbf the US has probably killed more innocents worldwide than all other nations put together in the last decade or so. so probably not really their place to start pointing the finger now.
Fact check. Lets take Burundi (Africa) alone. 125,000+. Zero USA involvement except for humanitarian food and medicine drops. Millions have been killed in local, cross border and tribal warfare/revolution. Almost one million girl babies are snuffed each year in China. We can go on and on.
Has the USA killed innocents in and near battle fields and or a few hundred with drones? Yes. Were most of the innocents placed near armament by the local military as shields ( think Hamas) YES.
Take all the free USA medicine, natural disaster relief, agriculture/water well assistance away. Another million dead? What country would step up to fill our gap if we were no more?
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Lol, no, not a chance. Still not our place to be world police, but to say we've killed more innocents than every nation combined in the last decade is a little sensationalist.
well perhaps not directly but as a result of US military action the death toll is very high
"The death toll among Iraqis as a result of the US-led invasion has now reached an estimated 655,000, a study in the Lancet medical journal reports today."
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/oct/11/iraq.iraq
and i think those figs are quite conservative compared to others.
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No one benefits. If Russia was smart they'd distance themselves from the rebels right about now.
The people who actually shot the rockets are idiots with weaponry they shouldn't be allowed to operate. No military training and all anger against Ukraine.
ISIS have US weapons they seized from Iraq and probably US cash from central back in Mosul that will now be used in Syria and I'm sure at some stage against Americans. What happens when you arm these mercenaries.
Obama should use this as leverage to stop Russia doing the same thing arming militias in the future. People in Poland and some Baltic states are nervous watching the Ukraine situation and it was going unopposed. This should stop Russia trying to expand into the EU.
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Fact check. Lets take Burundi (Africa) alone. 125,000+. Zero USA involvement except for humanitarian food and medicine drops. Millions have been killed in local, cross border and tribal warfare/revolution. Almost one million girl babies are snuffed each year in China. We can go on and on.
Has the USA killed innocents in and near battle fields and or a few hundred with drones? Yes. Were most of the innocents placed near armament by the local military as shields ( think Hamas) YES.
Take all the free USA medicine, natural disaster relief, agriculture/water well assistance away. Another million dead? What country would step up to fill our gap if we were no more?
yeh but are any of these other blood thirsty tribes trying to take on the role of the world's moral compass?
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Granted, do I think that Obama should have a little more testicular fortitude and actually command respect across the world? Absolutely.
Do I think that he is confused and doesn't have a true foreign policy, which in turn makes us look foolish in our stance as a global power? Yes.
Do I think there is a perfect answer in how to properly deal with Russia? No. Putin is a bad mothefucker and I think that while we can beat the shit out of them in all out war, it won't be before a few of his nukes erase a few major US cities/states.
Russia is just too complicated. I think we would have more success in dealing with both Iran and North Korea, than we would towards Russia.
"1"
I agree.....and wish someone would shut John fucking McCain up and put him out to pasture.
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They backed down from Kennedy.
i thought kennedy secretly conceded to their demand we pull missiles from Turkey, and 6 months later, he did? that was the agreement they made to avoid WWIII?
I always thought JFK won the PR battle on this, but ruskies won the strategic goal.
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ISIS have US weapons they seized from Iraq and probably US cash from central back in Mosul that will now be used in Syria and I'm sure at some stage against Americans. What happens when you arm these mercenaries.
Obama should use this as leverage to stop Russia doing the same thing arming militias in the future. People in Poland and some Baltic states are nervous watching the Ukraine situation and it was going unopposed. This should stop Russia trying to expand into the EU.
As much as I'd like to agree, I think the US just doesn't care. Ukraine doesn't have any natural resources (oil), they've never been a sovereign nation for more than a few decades at a time (always under Polish or Russian rule), and they really have nothing else to offer other. I mean, Obama could engage in a dick-waving contest with Putin but in reality Putin is going to do what he wants and Obama is going to "condemn it" but do nothing about it.
I think, if anyone, it should be the EU making moves at this point, they're the ones being threatened by a Russian invasion.
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As much as I'd like to agree, I think the US just doesn't care. Ukraine doesn't have any natural resources (oil), they've never been a sovereign nation for more than a few decades at a time (always under Polish or Russian rule), and they really have nothing else to offer other. I mean, Obama could engage in a dick-waving contest with Putin but in reality Putin is going to do what he wants and Obama is going to "condemn it" but do nothing about it.
I think, if anyone, it should be the EU making moves at this point, they're the ones being threatened by a Russian invasion.
For one, the EU is dependent, as I stated above, on Russian gas and to a lesser extent oil. Any sanctions we impose hurt us.
Secondly, the EU is horribly reticent to take any decisive action, Brussels is full of unelected technocrats and bureaucrats who can't make a hard decision. Only the UK and, to some extent France, have a military of any use. Germany, the richest country, has nothing of use. I can't see it coming to conflict but walk softly and carry a big stick... where's the big stick though?
The last 6 years has shown just how inept the EU is - it aspires to be a single entity, always doomed to fail and despised by citizens of all countries, yet national leaders all pander to the voters of their nations while ignoring the greater good of the union. It is fucked.
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Do I think there is a perfect answer in how to properly deal with Russia? No. Putin is a bad mothefucker and I think that while we can beat the shit out of them in all out war, it won't be before a few of his nukes erase a few major US cities/states.
Russia is just too complicated. I think we would have more success in dealing with both Iran and North Korea, than we would towards Russia.
It is not that relevant who can beat who in case of Russia. That all out war you're talking about is not possible. Such talks could work on Syria or Iraq.
It is common knowledge that if 3rd World War will happen it will be nuclear war and if even main cities of opposing countries will be erased there is enough automatics and nuclear sites all around the world which will trigger on and plunge all planet into nuclear winter. For me such scenario seems kinda unrealistic, who the hell needs that? In modern world negotiations are the only way for coexistance between nuclear-weapon states.
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It is so obvious separatists in Ukraine/Russian "volunteers" shot down the Malaysian Airlines flight. It is known that Russia recently gave separatists SAM with the capability to reach 15000m with a 45k range. Earlier there were news stories on Russian media re separatists shooting Ukrainian military airplane that were removed when it was learned it was a civilian airline.
Now Obama has called it a "terrible tragedy" after talking to Putin. I would be embarrassed if I was American. You are being walked on by Putin and laughed at. What a coward, he would have waved the Russians through in 1962 saying they were taking a vacation in Cuba.
It's also so obvious, according to Victoria Nuland herself, that the U.S spent $5 billion to overthrow Ukraine in a violent coup. Ukraine should not be any of the West's business. Putin and Russia have no benefit to gain from perpetrating an attack on a civilian airliner.
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It's also so obvious, according to Victoria Nuland herself, that the U.S spent $5 billion to overthrow Ukraine in a violent coup. Ukraine should not be any of the West's business. Putin and Russia have no benefit to gain from perpetrating an attack on a civilian airliner.
Agreed, but when they shot at it they thought it was a Ukrainian military craft, that's the problem with giving weapons to rebels, they don't have the information to go with the hardware they were donated. See my post re boasts on Russian media followed by deletion. This was 18 hours or so before US stance that it was separatists became public.
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Just heard some Aussie aviation expert on Sky News. He said it perfectly.
1) US are so anal about what you bring in bags (this new battery thing is complete bollox) yet they, and ICAO (International Civil Aviation Authority) said 32,000 feet was acceptable height to fly over this area. This plane was at 33k feet, they knew these missiles were in rebel hands yet were negligent, despite harassing passengers over irrelevant bullshit.
2) 28 Aussies died, this should not go unpunished/without reprimand. It IS an act of war; once we find out who did what we must act against them, albeit probably through diplomatic channels. You can't ignore English, Aussie and Dutch citizens dying like you can the Malaysians, shitty as that sounds.
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Just heard some Aussie aviation expert on Sky News. He said it perfectly.
1) US are so anal about what you bring in bags (this new battery thing is complete bollox) yet they, and ICAO (International Civil Aviation Authority) said 32,000 feet was acceptable height to fly over this area. This plane was at 33k feet, they knew these missiles were in rebel hands yet were negligent, despite harassing passengers over irrelevant bullshit.
2) 28 Aussies died, this should not go unpunished/without reprimand. It IS an act of war; once we find out who did what we must act against them, albeit probably through diplomatic channels. You can't ignore English, Aussie and Dutch citizens dying like you can the Malaysians, shitty as that sounds.
no racist :D
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no racist :D
I'm sure planes crash in Burundi from time to time. Ethnocentricity my friend.
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I'm sure planes crash in Burundi from time to time. Ethnocentricity my friend.
Got ya ;D
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I read that the path this plane took actually wasn't a standard flight path. That this flight was diverted around 30 miles north of the common flight path? Anyone know if this is true?
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I read that the path this plane took actually wasn't a standard flight path. That this flight was diverted around 30 miles north of the common flight path? Anyone know if this is true?
No it was on right flight path, but advice ICAO gave was poor given situation there and what they knew of mercenary's capabilities.
My initial theory that it was Russian separatists has been all but confirmed.
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No it was on right flight path, but advice ICAO gave was poor given situation there and what they knew of mercenary's capabilities.
My initial theory that it was Russian separatists has been all but confirmed.
Why would the Russians or rebels commit suicide by doing something like this, surely they're smarter than this? The only person this benefits, is Ukraine/Western Powers who desperately want regime change, and funded/pushed the original uprising against the legitimately elected government.
This link http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-17/was-flight-mh-17-diverted-over-restricted-airspace isn't legit?
(http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2014/07/MH%2017%20flight%20paths_0.png)
???
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It is a giant fuck up for Russia. They may well back away now.
Yeap !.
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Why would the Russians or rebels commit suicide by doing something like this, surely they're smarter than this? The only person this benefits, is Ukraine/Western Powers who desperately want regime change, and funded/pushed the original uprising against the legitimately elected government.
- Because Russian still live in the past, Putin is just junior Stalin.
- They still talk about Euro fascism taking over Ukraine. ::)
- No they a 'not smarter than this' .........
- In May Ukrainians elected new president, & is not 'regime'.
- Last week EC signed free trade agreement with Ukraine,Georgia & Moldova.Putin is gone mental about this.
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- They still talk about Euro fascism taking over Ukraine. ::)
This isn't what the fascist EU is trying to accomplish? ???
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- Because Russian still live in the past, Putin is just junior Stalin.
- They still talk about Euro fascism taking over Ukraine. ::)
- No they a 'not smarter than this' .........
- In May Ukrainians elected new president, & is not 'regime'.
- Last week EC signed free trade agreement with Ukraine,Georgia & Moldova.Putin is gone mental about this.
Corrupt Ukrainian oligarch puppet "elected" ::), who is running fascist Nazi elements in the country. No, not a "regime" at all. That's only a term used to describe Governments that don't do the bidding of the U.S. If it was a matter of an election, why did the West overthrow the previously elected leader of Ukraine? Why did they not just wait and allow Ukraine to vote him out? Putin is a master chess player, not some cartoon villain as the Western media would like the imbecilic public to believe. Funny how the Ketchup King rejects Assad's reelection, but expects us to believe that their puppet was put in at the choice of the Ukrainian majority.
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looks like an accident.
however, the missile (according to cnn right now) required a 4 man team to operate, and it wasn't some silly shoulder fire thing. it was a highly sophisticated weapons system requiring a lot of training for a newbie (unlikely) or just being run by a russian military missile team (way more likely)
Sounds like they were helping out... they sent their team in... they shot down what they thought was a combat plane... then they high tailed it back to russia, and of course, the whole world is seeing it now. Russia trying to diffuse the situation with "let's all come to the table" and saying we shoulnd't call it terr'ism. I betcha, if Ukraine had shot it down, Russia sure wouldn't be denying it was terrorism lol.
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An accident? An accident?
Last week a couple friends came over- we started drinking Jack and smoking crack. Some hookers came over and brought along some heroin. We took out my 1911 Combat Commander and started shooting apples off my apple tree. A nosey neighbor heard the gun shots and called the fuzz. A pigcopter flew by overhead. I thought it was an apple from my apple tree and shot it down. I explained to the judge that it was an accident. The judge understood.
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Corrupt Ukrainian oligarch puppet "elected" ::), who is running fascist Nazi elements in the country. No, not a "regime" at all. That's only a term used to describe Governments that don't do the bidding of the U.S. If it was a matter of an election, why did the West overthrow the previously elected leader of Ukraine? Why did they not just wait and allow Ukraine to vote him out? Putin is a master chess player, not some cartoon villain as the Western media would like the imbecilic public to believe. Funny how the Ketchup King rejects Assad's reelection, but expects us to believe that their puppet was put in at the choice of the Ukrainian majority.
Only the mega idiot like Yanukovich would pay $ 120000 for a stupid bird Emu ;D & Putin don't need him anymore.
Putin, master chess ;D ;D ;D, surrounded by old Stalin's era generals ;D
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Why would the Russians or rebels commit suicide by doing something like this, surely they're smarter than this? The only person this benefits, is Ukraine/Western Powers who desperately want regime change, and funded/pushed the original uprising against the legitimately elected government.
This link http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-17/was-flight-mh-17-diverted-over-restricted-airspace isn't legit?
(http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2014/07/MH%2017%20flight%20paths_0.png)
???
why the fuck are we even calling them "rebels" they are people that don't want anything to do with the current regime that took control of the country by force ousting a democratically elected government.... yet we keep hearing they are "rebels" and "separatists"
ffs imagine if there was some attempt to physically overthrow the elected US or UK government , the perps would be evil anti democracy terrorists, but in ukraine those responsible are "revolutionists" and anyone opposing them are rebels. what a crock of shit.
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looks like an accident.
however, the missile (according to cnn right now) required a 4 man team to operate, and it wasn't some silly shoulder fire thing. it was a highly sophisticated weapons system requiring a lot of training for a newbie (unlikely) or just being run by a russian military missile team (way more likely)
Sounds like they were helping out... they sent their team in... they shot down what they thought was a combat plane... then they high tailed it back to russia, and of course, the whole world is seeing it now. Russia trying to diffuse the situation with "let's all come to the table" and saying we shoulnd't call it terr'ism. I betcha, if Ukraine had shot it down, Russia sure wouldn't be denying it was terrorism lol.
Why was the course of the jet diverted, with the altitude lowered from 35,000 ft? Did Russian's on the ground do that to?
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- Because Russian still live in the past, Putin is just junior Stalin.
- They still talk about Euro fascism taking over Ukraine. ::)
- No they a 'not smarter than this' .........
- In May Ukrainians elected new president, & is not 'regime'.
- Last week EC signed free trade agreement with Ukraine,Georgia & Moldova.Putin is gone mental about this.
This.
I said it from day one what happened and have been vindicated, I thought Obama was going to keep up the tragic accident bs but now he is revealing that US has evidence that it was Russians/Russian lovers firing from Eastern Ukraine. Pity they couldn't use same satellites or source of evidence (there were phone calls and messages intercepted I guess) to find the missing MA flight.
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why the fuck are we even calling them "rebels" they are people that don't want anything to do with the current regime that took control of the country by force ousting a democratically elected government.... yet we keep hearing they are "rebels" and "separatists"
ffs imagine if there was some attempt to physically overthrow the elected US or UK government , the perps would be evil anti democracy terrorists, but in ukraine those responsible are "revolutionists" and anyone opposing them are rebels. what a crock of shit.
You're absulutly right, it's a sickening and effective attempt by the MSM to manipulate public opinion. The separatists are the usurpers in Kiev.
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why the fuck are we even calling them "rebels" they are people that don't want anything to do with the current regime that took control of the country by force ousting a democratically elected government.... yet we keep hearing they are "rebels" and "separatists"
ffs imagine if there was some attempt to physically overthrow the elected US or UK government , the perps would be evil anti democracy terrorists, but in ukraine those responsible are "revolutionists" and anyone opposing them are rebels. what a crock of shit.
really great point there.
imagine if MEX was smuggling missiles into the USA and using it to shoot down american flights over texas lol. People would be hanging these "rebels" in the streets lol.
yet somehow, now they're "freedom fighters" and "rebels".
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The Eurasian Chessboard: Brzezinski Mapped Out “The Battle for Ukraine” in 1997
By Chris Ernesto
Global Research, March 16, 2014
It’s all about maintaining the US position as the world’s sole superpower
Why would the United States run the risk of siding with anti-Semitic, neo-Nazis in Ukraine?
One of the keys may be found by looking back at Zbigniew Brzezinski’s 1997 book, The Grand Chessboard in which he wrote, “Ukraine, a new and important space on the Eurasian chessboard, is a geopolitical pivot because its very existence as an independent country helps to transform Russia. Without Ukraine, Russia ceases to be a Eurasian empire.”
“However, if Moscow regains control over Ukraine, with its 52 million people and major resources as well as access to the Black Sea, Russia automatically again regains the wherewithal to become a powerful imperial state, spanning Europe and Asia.”
The former national security advisor to Jimmy Carter from 1977 to 1981 and top foreign policy advisor to Barack Obama, Brzezinski wrote that US policy should be “unapologetic” in perpetuating “America’s own dominant position for at least a generation and preferably longer still.”
Brzezinski delved into the importance of little known Ukraine by explaining in his 1997 book, “Geopolitical pivots are the states whose importance is derived not from their power and motivation but rather from their sensitive location… which in some cases gives them a special role in either defining access to important areas or in denying resources to a significant player.”
“Ukraine, Azerbaijan, South Korea, Turkey and Iran play the role of critically important geopolitical pivots,” he wrote in The Grand Chessboard, a book viewed by many as a blueprint for US world domination.
Brzezinski wrote that Eurasia is “the chessboard on which the struggle for global primacy continues to be played,” and that “it is imperative that no Eurasian challenger emerges, capable of dominating Eurasia and thus also of challenging America.”
Understanding Brzezinski’s long-term view of Ukraine makes it easier to comprehend why the US has given $5 billion to Ukraine since 1991, and why today it is hyper-concerned about having Ukraine remain in its sphere of influence.
It may also help explain why in the past year the US and many of its media outlets have feverishly demonized Vladimir Putin.
By prominently highlighting the mistreatment of activist group Pussy Riot, incessantly condemning Russia’s regressive position on gay rights, and excessively focusing on substandard accommodations at the Sochi Olympic Games, the Obama administration has cleverly distracted the public from delving into US support of the ultra-nationalist, neo-Nazi factions of the Ukrainian opposition, and has made it palatable for Americans to accept the US narrative on Ukraine.
Interestingly enough, it was Brzezinski who first compared Putin to Hitler in a March 3 Washington Post Editorial. Hillary Clinton followed-up the next day with her comments comparing the two, followed by John McCain and Marco Rubio who on March 5 agreed with Clinton’s comments comparing Putin and Hitler. Apparently Brzezinski still continues to influence US political speak.
In his book, Brzezinski contends that “America stands supreme in the four decisive domains of global power: militarily… economically… technologically… and culturally.”
While this may have been accurate in 1997, it can be argued that today, other than militarily, the US no longer reigns supreme in these domains.
So late last year when Ukraine’s now-ousted president Viktor Yanukovych surprisingly canceled plans for Ukrainian integration into the European Union in favor of stronger ties with Russia, the US may have viewed Ukraine as slipping even further out of its reach.
At that point, with the pieces already in place, the US moved to support the ousting of Yanukovych, as evidenced by the leaked phone conversation between US Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland and US Ambassador to Ukraine Geoffrey Pyatt. When peaceful protests were not effective in unseating Yanukovych, the violence of the ultra-nationalist Svoboda party and Right Sector was embraced, if not supported by the west.
In today’s Ukraine, the US runs the risk of being affiliated with anti-Semitic neo-Nazis, a prospect it probably feels can be controlled via a friendly western media. But even if the risk is high, the US likely views it as necessary given the geopolitical importance of Ukraine, as Brzezinski mapped out in 1997.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/theme/us-nato-war-agenda
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Getbig digging deep for conspiratorial proof or a strategically decisive response. There's neither. Not to be icy but this is one of those shit happens things. It's not going to change the balance of power in the region no matter how anyone tries to play it. It's not going to change anything.
Missle dudes: Know what you're shooting at before you pull the trigger.
Pilots and flight planners: Don't fly over war zones where they shoot down other planes.
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oh my god, you Americans are so fucking stupid.
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oh my god, you Americans are so fucking stupid.
Please elaborate
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oh my god, you Americans are so fucking stupid.
That's not how you spell "AWESOME"! It's A-W-E-S-O-M-E.
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oh my god, you Americans are so fucking stupid.
Hey, it wasn't American's that shot down a commercial flight loaded with innocent civilians
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Hey, it wasn't American's that shot down a commercial flight loaded with innocent civilians
No but they blew up the twin towers with controlled explosions.
Lights blue touch paper and retires to a safe distance.
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Where are you now, mass243, Putin-lover ? >:(
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Hey, it wasn't American's that shot down a commercial flight loaded with innocent civilians
Check your facts boy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655)
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Maar daar zaten niet 193 Hollanders in, Bosch...
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Where are you now, mass243, Putin-lover ? >:(
He lost his job in Vodka propaganda office, :'(
;D
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Check your facts boy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655)
The event to which you are referring occurred over a quarter century ago.
This thread is about the the Malaysian flight that was shot down 2 days ago. Americans did not shoot down the Malaysian flight. So calling Americans "stupid" in this particular thread (without explanation) is ridiculous.
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Getbig digging deep for conspiratorial proof or a strategically decisive response. There's neither. Not to be icy but this is one of those shit happens things. It's not going to change the balance of power in the region no matter how anyone tries to play it. It's not going to change anything.
Missle dudes: Know what you're shooting at before you pull the trigger.
Pilots and flight planners: Don't fly over war zones where they shoot down other planes.
Yup.
Theres rough times in that area, something happened, a bird gets shot down accidently in a hostile area.
Shit happens, it probably wasnt intentional, nor was it probably conspiracy.
Most likely bad luck.
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Yup.
Theres rough times in that area, something happened, a bird gets shot down accidently in a hostile area.
Shit happens, it probably wasnt intentional, nor was it probably conspiracy.
Most likely bad luck.
3 not too bright Russian + Vodka !
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It's hard for the Americans to take too strong a stance on this since they made a similar mistake shooting an Iranian airliner out of the sky back in the eighties, which many believe led to the Lockerbie bombing as revenge
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655
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I wonder how easy it'd be for 1 of you to say "oh shit happens" if your family was on that plane
Brutal lack of logic.
That would be a knee jerk emotional response, of course theyd be upset. But it would be fucking retarded to try and cause an uproar that could lead to a military response over such an emotional response. Yes, lets freak out and possibly kill millions because of an unfortunate accident that killed a couple hundred, all because youre upset you lost a family member.
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OK this quote is for first three replies, however this one is the most retarded and completely missed my point.
If it was a deliberate act as a result of Russian actions (encouraging revolt and supplying the weapons used) is it not a complete negation of responsibilities for the US president to call it a tragedy? The Netherlands are a NATO country and the flight left from Amsterdam with Dutch passengers.
If unsure, say we await conclusive determination. If it is Russian involvement, direct or indirect, condemn it, justify recent sanctions and use it as leverage to force Russia out of Ukraine (who the fuck can support shooting down an Asian airline... you know, near China, Russia's friend). You can back Putin into an apology but Obama missed a trick.
Next time you reply use your head.
Precedent says it's a tragedy & let's move on....
According to Ronald Reagan that is..
Iran Air Flight 655 was an Iran Air civilian passenger flight from Tehran to Dubai that was shot down by the United States Navy guided missile cruiser USS Vincennes on 3 July 1988. The attack took place in Iranian airspace, over Iran's territorial waters in the Persian Gulf, and on the flight's usual flight path. The aircraft, an Airbus A300 B2-203, was destroyed by SM-2MR surface-to-air missiles fired from the Vincennes.
According to the United States Government, the crew incorrectly identified the Iranian Airbus A300 as an attacking F-14 Tomcat fighter (a plane made in the United States and operated at that time by only two forces worldwide, the United States Navy and the Islamic Republic of Iran Air Force).
The event generated a great deal of controversy and criticism of the United States. Some analysts have blamed U.S. military commanders and the captain of Vincennes for reckless and aggressive behavior in a tense and dangerous environment.
The United States did not apologize to Iran. In 1996, the United States and Iran reached "an agreement in full and final settlement of all disputes, differences, claims, counterclaims" relating to the incident at the International Court of Justice As part of the settlement, the United States did not admit legal liability but agreed to pay US$61.8 million, amounting to $213,103.45 per passenger, in compensation to the families of the Iranian victims.
So basically, not even an apology required but maybe a few hunnerd thousand dollars per head.
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Don't fool yourself with believing that the president is the one calling the shots on these matters.
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The event to which you are referring occurred over a quarter century ago.
This thread is about the the Malaysian flight that was shot down 2 days ago. Americans did not shoot down the Malaysian flight. So calling Americans "stupid" in this particular thread (without explanation) is ridiculous.
so after 26 years american didnt even apologize, well that sums it up when they have "opinions" regarding terrorism
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The event to which you are referring occurred over a quarter century ago.
This thread is about the the Malaysian flight that was shot down 2 days ago. Americans did not shoot down the Malaysian flight. So calling Americans "stupid" in this particular thread (without explanation) is ridiculous.
That was to show you that everyone has skeletons in closet.
Not long time ago most americans didn't know what Ukraine or Syria or whatever is and most still don't know how the conflict started, who fights who, who pays for it, why so called ukranian army takes three months to handle a handful of opposition forces and so on. But everyone keeps calling names and making accusations.
You know, that situation is very symptomatic. I just find it funny that even before the investigation some EU countries and of course USA said whose fault is it. And it seems most of you didn't give a passing thought to that.
Just think of it, it's fourth day since the accident and there is still no expert group on site and no evidence. The investigation is being delayed. Wait few days more and that plane will go off the news feed. FYI, you can come to the crash site from each place across the globe in one day - Kiev has international airport (i've even been there once) from where it takes a few hours to be in Donetsk. Rebels been told by international community - wait, don't touch anything, keep the crash site intact. And they are waiting. It's fourth day, while there is bodies lying around in the field and military operation is ongoing and its +30 degrees C everyday. All the bodies must be decomposed now, maybe partly eaten by wild animals, bet the relatives are happy with it. The next thing we'll hear will be that unindentified missle blown up the crash site. Oh, that must be rebels too.
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Let me remind you two great quotes from Victoria Nuland - "Fuck the EU" and "We've invested over five billion dollars to assist Ukraine's in needs and other goals".
That one from Collin Powell was nice too - "United States knows about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction".
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An accident? An accident?
Last week a couple friends came over- we started drinking Jack and smoking crack. Some hookers came over and brought along some heroin. We took out my 1911 Combat Commander and started shooting apples off my apple tree. A nosey neighbor heard the gun shots and called the fuzz. A pigcopter flew by overhead. I thought it was an apple from my apple tree and shot it down. I explained to the judge that it was an accident. The judge understood.
So you took off outside to shoot apples off the tree instead of fucking the hookers?
Outed
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MH17: Russia Today presenter Sara Firth quits over Malaysia Airlines crash coverage
A presenter for the Kremlin-backed news channel Russia Today (RT) has resigned from her job in protest over the broadcaster’s coverage of the Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 crash in Ukraine.
Sara Firth quit the post she has held at the Moscow based station for five years over what she described as their “total disrespect to the facts”, claiming on Twitter that the RT style guide rule one is: "It is ALWAYS *Ukraine's fault (*add name as applicable)”.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/mh17-russia-today-presenter-sara-firth-quits-over-malaysia-airlines-crash-coverage-9615489.html
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I wonder how easy it'd be for 1 of you to say "oh shit happens" if your family was on that plane
Yet my family not being on the plane allows me to be objective. Does this help?
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Yet my family not being on the plane allows me to be objective. Does this help?
Apparently that makes you sound like an asshole.
Apparently were supposed to be all overly emotional and feign righteous indignation over an event simply because people lost family in a tragic accident...., and not immediately freaking out and calling for a response that could instigate an international incident out of pure, irrational, emotion driven outrage makes us assholes.
well, call me an asshole I guess. Im not going to freak out irrationally just because people lost family members in a tragic accident when no one even knows where to point the finger yet.
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MH17: Russia Today presenter Sara Firth quits over Malaysia Airlines crash coverage
A presenter for the Kremlin-backed news channel Russia Today (RT) has resigned from her job in protest over the broadcaster’s coverage of the Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 crash in Ukraine.
Sara Firth quit the post she has held at the Moscow based station for five years over what she described as their “total disrespect to the facts”, claiming on Twitter that the RT style guide rule one is: "It is ALWAYS *Ukraine's fault (*add name as applicable)”.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/mh17-russia-today-presenter-sara-firth-quits-over-malaysia-airlines-crash-coverage-9615489.html
!!!!!!
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I wonder how easy it'd be for 1 of you to say "oh shit happens" if your family was on that plane
It's the old "to the world you are one person, but to one person you are the world" saying. I'd be obviously sad and pissed off, but you can't expect war because of this.
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It's the old "to the world you are one person, but to one person you are the world" saying. I'd be obviously sad and pissed off, but you can't expect war because of this.
Decisions on that scale have to be measured with objectivity and without emotional involvement. Countless lives hang in the balance, and 200 people losing their lives, while tragic, is not significant enough IMO to merit a retaliatory response, unless it was an intentional, planned event and they knew exactly who they were shooting down.
right now it sounds like no one knows anything. Too quick to point the finger.
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Apparently that makes you sound like an asshole.
Apparently were supposed to be all overly emotional and feign righteous indignation over an event simply because people lost family in a tragic accident...., and not immediately freaking out and calling for a response that could instigate an international incident out of pure, irrational, emotion driven outrage makes us assholes.
well, call me an asshole I guess. Im not going to freak out irrationally just because people lost family members in a tragic accident when no one even knows where to point the finger yet.
I've never made any secret of that!
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I've never made any secret of that!
Haha, touche'.
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Let me remind you two great quotes from Victoria Nuland - "Fuck the EU" and "We've invested over five billion dollars to assist Ukraine's in needs and other goals".
That one from Collin Powell was nice too - "United States knows about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction".
Spreading freedom and democracy all over the World!
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Apparently that makes you sound like an asshole.
Apparently were supposed to be all overly emotional and feign righteous indignation over an event simply because people lost family in a tragic accident...., and not immediately freaking out and calling for a response that could instigate an international incident out of pure, irrational, emotion driven outrage makes us assholes.
well, call me an asshole I guess. Im not going to freak out irrationally just because people lost family members in a tragic accident when no one even knows where to point the finger yet.
It was not a tragic accident.
We knew Russia was inciting revolution in Ukraine and arming terrorists (guess they're not separatists anymore). For 8 months or more this was known. People were too soft on Putin. It was known he gave these same people more sophisticated SAMs a month or so ago. Firstly on this, the Civil Aviation Authority, which would have known this, showed a complete dereliction of duty allowing planes to fly here once it was above 32k feet given that these SAMs have a farm greater range. Secondly, no action was taken against Russia, Israel has been in the news, and the world cup. These terrorists have been shooting down Ukrainian aircraft for months, EU and US have stayed silent.
The Lusitania was not an accident, it was coming. Same with Pearl harbour. This is not quite on same level as the latter but the Lusitania had weapons, albeit small firearms and was warned, this was a case of knowing such a thing could happen, not changing advice to airlines, and the inevitable happening.
In short, it was preventable, strong action needs to be taken now. Putin is all bark and no bite, make him suffer and turn China against him. He should never have signed that 400bn gas deal with China, maybe now an Asian country has been affected they will rethink. Doubt it, the rapacious immoral cu nts
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It was not a tragic accident.
We knew Russia was inciting revolution in Ukraine and arming terrorists (guess they're not separatists anymore). For 8 months or more this was known. People were too soft on Putin. It was known he gave these same people more sophisticated SAMs a month or so ago. Firstly on this, the Civil Aviation Authority, which would have known this, showed a complete dereliction of duty allowing planes to fly here once it was above 32k feet given that these SAMs have a farm greater range. Secondly, no action was taken against Russia, Israel has been in the news, and the world cup. These terrorists have been shooting down Ukrainian aircraft for months, EU and US have stayed silent.
The Lusitania was not an accident, it was coming. Same with Pearl harbour. This is not quite on same level as the latter but the Lusitania had weapons, albeit small firearms and was warned, this was a case of knowing such a thing could happen, not changing advice to airlines, and the inevitable happening.
In short, it was preventable, strong action needs to be taken now. Putin is all bark and no bite, make him suffer and turn China against him. He should never have signed that 400bn gas deal with China, maybe now an Asian country has been affected they will rethink. Doubt it, the rapacious immoral cu nts
I wouldnt test putin. hes a wolf.
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We knew western powers were inciting revolution in Ukraine and arming terrorists (guess they're not separatists anymore). For 8 months or more this was known.
fixed
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ehum
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fixed
The whole thing started when president was bought out by Putin so Ukraine would not strike trade deals with EU. Did you see his palace? Putin instigated this whole thing.
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Just on the news: Putin call Australian PM :o WOW
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Just on the news: Putin call Australian PM :o WOW
"We give you gas, you say we not guilty, nyeah?"
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"We give you gas, you say we not guilty, nyeah?"
What gas ???
Who is 'we' ?.
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just watching sky news ,all the talk is about greater sanctions being placed against putin and russia. ffs no one even knows for certain yet who shot this fkin plane down, and it is pretty obvious who ever did it did not intentionally mean to shoot down a civilian plane. yet israel is currently, willingly slaughtering the sh.it out of 100s of kids in gaza and i'm yet to hear a single mention of any sanctions against israel...
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just watching sky news ,all the talk is about greater sanctions being placed against putin and russia. ffs no one even knows for certain yet who shot this fkin plane down, and it is pretty obvious who ever did it did not intentionally mean to shoot down a civilian plane. yet israel is currently, willingly slaughtering the sh.it out of 100s of kids in gaza and i'm yet to hear a single mention of any sanctions against israel...
Bullshit amigo, nobody would fire very expensive rocket NON intentionally, this is not New Year firework.
Hamas is/was firing rockets at any target in Jew land, Jews (love them or hate them) do it right way.
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President Obama's foreign policy is implemented in the context of an increasingly dysfunctional political system (viz., Congress) and broad disillusionment with elites due to the events of 9/11, the Iraq War, the Great Recession, and the increasing economic vulnerability many face. The former hinders its effective implementation and the latter its interpretation by the decidedly ignorant masses, as indicated by this thread.
It also seems pretty clear that the events in Ukraine are noise in the long-term: a revanchist Russia isn't a remotely plausible threat to the US-led global order, because there simply isn't one, period. A new form of defeatism is defeated every decade, and this decade is no different. Though we won't rule forever, it will be a while yet before our time is up.
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Bullshit amigo, nobody would fire very expensive rocket NON intentionally, this is not New Year firework.
Hamas is/was firing rockets at any target in Jew land, Jews (love them or hate them) do it right way.
yes "brains" not suggesting whoever fired the rocket pulled the trigger by accident but more likely misidentified what they were firing at...hamas hits fk all with it's rockets, but i suppose it's all they can do to oppose the illegal israeli occupation. unfortunately i can't see any other way for the palestinians to get israel to withdraw other than to keep sacrificing life and keep pushing israel to commit further atrocities. in the hope that one day the international community draws the line and forces israel to obey international law.
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just watching sky news ,all the talk is about greater sanctions being placed against putin and russia. ffs no one even knows for certain yet who shot this fkin plane down, and it is pretty obvious who ever did it did not intentionally mean to shoot down a civilian plane. yet israel is currently, willingly slaughtering the sh.it out of 100s of kids in gaza and i'm yet to hear a single mention of any sanctions against israel...
That's how modern mass media works. Enormous amount of disinformation, loud shouts on messages you need and vow of silence on everything can hinder your 'story'. If anyone starts to ask questions, yell even louder in their face. Hell, a solid periodical press have started to publish messages from social networks, without even checking these messages for validity. At such rate, soon UN and NATO will start to use twitter and youtube posts as evidences.
Lustral and Teutonic Man make perfect example of such approach in this thread - they keep posting that Putin is pure Satan in the flesh, ignoring the facts completely. Hey, he fucked your wives or what? : )
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yes "brains" not suggesting whoever fired the rocket pulled the trigger by accident but more likely misidentified what they were firing at...hamas hits fk all with it's rockets, but i suppose it's all they can do to oppose the illegal israeli occupation. unfortunately i can't see any other way for the palestinians to get israel to withdraw other than to keep sacrificing life and keep pushing israel to commit further atrocities. in the hope that one day the international community draws the line and forces israel to obey international law.
Bullshit again, locking radar system would tell operators plane direction/altitude,several other commercial planes were flaying on this flight path,even Lufthansa.
Not every drunken Russian can operate those rockets.
Who can force Jews from the Middle Earth ( ;D), 500 mil. fuck up Arabs ;D.Israel is Nato's military buddy + Iran & the US/Israel
old friendship is on again.Over 50 000 Jews live very comfortable in Tehran, so.
International "community" :D :D :D, yeah right.
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That's how modern mass media works. Enormous amount of disinformation, loud shouts on messages you need and vow of silence on everything can hinder your 'story'. If anyone starts to ask questions, yell even louder in their face. Hell, a solid periodical press have started to publish messages from social networks, without even checking these messages for validity. At such rate, soon UN and NATO will start to use twitter and youtube posts as evidences.
Lustral and Teutonic Man make perfect example of such approach in this thread - they keep posting that Putin is pure Satan in the flesh, ignoring the facts completely. Hey, he fucked your wives or what? : )
Get real, Putin is product of old stalinist system & this is his only way.
Remember Pussy Riot ;D
;D
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It's fifth day since the accident.
Still hear no information on experts group work. Are they there? If no, what's the reason for such delay?
Video from crash site showing journalists from around the world. Posted 2 days ago. Looks like zero problem for me, if you need to work there.
Meanwhile,UN already prepared new pack of sanctions on Russia, LOL.
A plane crashed in Ukraine, guided by air traffic rules by ukranian dispatcher, probably shot by ukranians who are in state of civil war. Where is Russia here?
Let's put more sanctions on Russia. Formal logic is dead.
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Get real, Putin is product of old stalinist system & this is his only way.
Remember Pussy Riot ;D
;D
That's what I'm talking about. Stop all these "burn the witches" yells, it's not the Middle ages anymore.
And what's with Pussy Riot? They are bunch of dumb kids. Like Sex Pistols, but without any talent. They also liked to shout something. You seem to be a fan and have similar discussion manner. : )
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Russia Says Has Photos Of Ukraine Deploying BUK Missiles In East, Radar Proof Of Warplanes In MH17 Vicinity
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-21/russia-says-has-photos-ukraine-deploying-buk-missiles-east-rader-proof-warplanes-mh1
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JUST IN FROM CNN:
Terror, terror, terror- fear, fear,fear. Rebels, militants, terrorists, separatists.... terror, terror, terror. 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, Terror. Kerry said, Obama said, Officials said, terror, fear, rebels, terrorists, militants, 9/11, Obama said, State Department said, rebels, militants, terror !
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JUST IN FROM CNN:
Terror, terror, terror- fear, fear,fear. Rebels, militants, terrorists, separatists.... terror, terror, terror. 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, Terror. Kerry said, Obama said, Officials said, terror, fear, rebels, terrorists, militants, 9/11, Obama said, State Department said, rebels, militants, terror !
I'm feeling pretty scared and strangely patriotic. I'm ready to do the NWO's bidding. ;D
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One more time...,
Excellent article, great breakdown for anyone that doesn't understand the situation...
The Eurasian Chessboard: Brzezinski Mapped Out “The Battle for Ukraine” in 1997
By Chris Ernesto Global Research, March 16, 2014
It’s all about maintaining the US position as the world’s sole superpower Why would the United States run the risk of siding with anti-Semitic, neo-Nazis in Ukraine? One of the keys may be found by looking back at Zbigniew Brzezinski’s 1997 book, The Grand Chessboard in which he wrote, “Ukraine, a new and important space on the Eurasian chessboard, is a geopolitical pivot because its very existence as an independent country helps to transform Russia. Without Ukraine, Russia ceases to be a Eurasian empire.” “However, if Moscow regains control over Ukraine, with its 52 million people and major resources as well as access to the Black Sea, Russia automatically again regains the wherewithal to become a powerful imperial state, spanning Europe and Asia.” The former national security advisor to Jimmy Carter from 1977 to 1981 and top foreign policy advisor to Barack Obama, Brzezinski wrote that US policy should be “unapologetic” in perpetuating “America’s own dominant position for at least a generation and preferably longer still.” Brzezinski delved into the importance of little known Ukraine by explaining in his 1997 book, “Geopolitical pivots are the states whose importance is derived not from their power and motivation but rather from their sensitive location… which in some cases gives them a special role in either defining access to important areas or in denying resources to a significant player.” “Ukraine, Azerbaijan, South Korea, Turkey and Iran play the role of critically important geopolitical pivots,” he wrote in The Grand Chessboard, a book viewed by many as a blueprint for US world domination. Brzezinski wrote that Eurasia is “the chessboard on which the struggle for global primacy continues to be played,” and that “it is imperative that no Eurasian challenger emerges, capable of dominating Eurasia and thus also of challenging America.” Understanding Brzezinski’s long-term view of Ukraine makes it easier to comprehend why the US has given $5 billion to Ukraine since 1991, and why today it is hyper-concerned about having Ukraine remain in its sphere of influence. It may also help explain why in the past year the US and many of its media outlets have feverishly demonized Vladimir Putin. By prominently highlighting the mistreatment of activist group Pussy Riot, incessantly condemning Russia’s regressive position on gay rights, and excessively focusing on substandard accommodations at the Sochi Olympic Games, the Obama administration has cleverly distracted the public from delving into US support of the ultra-nationalist, neo-Nazi factions of the Ukrainian opposition, and has made it palatable for Americans to accept the US narrative on Ukraine. Interestingly enough, it was Brzezinski who first compared Putin to Hitler in a March 3 Washington Post Editorial. Hillary Clinton followed-up the next day with her comments comparing the two, followed by John McCain and Marco Rubio who on March 5 agreed with Clinton’s comments comparing Putin and Hitler. Apparently Brzezinski still continues to influence US political speak. In his book, Brzezinski contends that “America stands supreme in the four decisive domains of global power: militarily… economically… technologically… and culturally.” While this may have been accurate in 1997, it can be argued that today, other than militarily, the US no longer reigns supreme in these domains. So late last year when Ukraine’s now-ousted president Viktor Yanukovych surprisingly canceled plans for Ukrainian integration into the European Union in favor of stronger ties with Russia, the US may have viewed Ukraine as slipping even further out of its reach. At that point, with the pieces already in place, the US moved to support the ousting of Yanukovych, as evidenced by the leaked phone conversation between US Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland and US Ambassador to Ukraine Geoffrey Pyatt. When peaceful protests were not effective in unseating Yanukovych, the violence of the ultra-nationalist Svoboda party and Right Sector was embraced, if not supported by the west. In today’s Ukraine, the US runs the risk of being affiliated with anti-Semitic neo-Nazis, a prospect it probably feels can be controlled via a friendly western media. But even if the risk is high, the US likely views it as necessary given the geopolitical importance of Ukraine, as Brzezinski mapped out in 1997. http://www.globalresearch.ca/theme/us-nato-war-agenda
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Bullshit again, locking radar system would tell operators plane direction/altitude,several other commercial planes were flaying on this flight path,even Lufthansa.
Not every drunken Russian can operate those rockets.
Who can force Jews from the Middle Earth ( ;D), 500 mil. fuck up Arabs ;D.Israel is Nato's military buddy + Iran & the US/Israel
old friendship is on again.Over 50 000 Jews live very comfortable in Tehran, so.
International "community" :D :D :D, yeah right.
so you think they(whoever) shot down a civilian plane intentionally, sure because which ever side did it, really furthers their cause ::)
it will happen eventually, the US has zero credibility trying to play upholder of international law while it continues to sponsor israel's destruction of palestine. israel cannot survive without US/western sponsorship, eventually they will be stopped, same as the apartheid regime of south africa eventually was.
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They learned in Syria that even getting the Turks to gas a preschool for us isn't enough to get a apathetic US public behind our bankers foreign policy. Airlines are a good fallback, they couldn't have this one flown into a building but at least they've managed to paint Putin as being personally at the controls.
Unfortunately there seem to be some reporters not falling in line but the mass of state media is doing a great job of shouting them out
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US got Ukraine to try and shoot down Putin's plane but instead they took down a civilian airliner instead, it was supposed to be Putin's plane that was flying in the same airspace...
was an accident and the US is pissed now so they need to make shit up
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Russia Says Has Photos Of Ukraine Deploying BUK Missiles In East, Radar Proof Of Warplanes In MH17 Vicinity
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-21/russia-says-has-photos-ukraine-deploying-buk-missiles-east-rader-proof-warplanes-mh1
Wow, actually there is official pictures from satellites and graphical infromation from radar stations revealed on todays russian Ministry of Defense press conference. It's not someones twitter or hysteria from CNN. It can't get more real than that.
Here is fuller video from that link:
Satellite images shown from 7.20. Russians need to find a better interpreter, that girl speaks so slooow.
1. Crashed Boeing was diverted from the normal route to the point where war operation is ongoing and where Kiev deployed anti air stations (for what? rebels don't have any aviation). Controlling civil aircraft routes is the task of dispatcher of the country to which the air space belongs to. Basically, ukranian dispatcher lead civil aircraft straight to the battlefield.
2. Intel report shows that american satellite was just above the crash site - but information from that satellite wasn't presented to the world community, just daily dose of "we think" from US department of state.
3. It also shows ukranian military aircraft was near the civil aircraft and ukranian Buk M-1 station near the crash site before the accident, though Kiev denies involvement. Then they shot russian civil plane above the black sea ten years ago their reaction was the same.
Now it will be ignored by world mass media or played down, since it's impractical to USA to give up on heating up Ukraine problem after they spent billions of dollars to make that civil war happen.
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Putin about usas new sanctionplans : -"cri me a river"
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Wow, actually there is official pictures from satellites and graphical infromation from radar stations revealed on todays russian Ministry of Defense press conference. It's not someones twitter or hysteria from CNN. It can't get more real than that.
Here is fuller video from that link:
Satellite images shown from 7.20. Russians need to find a better interpreter, that girl speaks so slooow.
1. Crashed Boeing was diverted from the normal route to the point where war operation is ongoing and where Kiev deployed anti air stations (for what? rebels don't have any aviation). Controlling civil aircraft routes is the task of dispatcher of the country to which the air space belongs to. Basically, ukranian dispatcher lead civil aircraft straight to the battlefield.
2. Intel report shows that american satellite was just above the crash site - but information from that satellite wasn't presented to the world community, just daily dose of "we think" from US department of state.
3. It also shows ukranian military aircraft was near the civil aircraft and ukranian Buk M-1 station near the crash site before the accident, though Kiev denies involvement. Then they shot russian civil plane above the black sea ten years ago their reaction was the same.
Now it will be ignored by world mass media or played down, since it's impractical to USA to give up on heating up Ukraine problem after they spent billions of dollars to make that civil war happen.
Unbelievable.... Hope he's able to out maneuver these sociopathic globalists again. :o
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That's what I'm talking about. Stop all these "burn the witches" yells, it's not the Middle ages anymore.
And what's with Pussy Riot? They are bunch of dumb kids. Like Sex Pistols, but without any talent. They also liked to shout something. You seem to be a fan and have similar discussion manner. : )
Nobody lock up pop or rock bands on the west for singing anti establishment songs.
Visit Russia, then talk.
;)
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so you think they(whoever) shot down a civilian plane intentionally, sure because which ever side did it, really furthers their cause ::)
it will happen eventually, the US has zero credibility trying to play upholder of international law while it continues to sponsor israel's destruction of palestine. israel cannot survive without US/western sponsorship, eventually they will be stopped, same as the apartheid regime of south africa eventually was.
So U a Arab, right.
Why, that Allah doesn't stop Jews if he is so macho :D
Surprise,surprise Persians don't give a fuck about Gaza :)
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Nobody lock up pop or rock bands on the west for singing anti establishment songs.
Visit Russia, then talk.
;)
You are obviously unaware of the troubles Behemoth and Gorgoroth faced in Poland.
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JUST IN FROM CNN:
Terror, terror, terror- fear, fear,fear. Rebels, militants, terrorists, separatists.... terror, terror, terror. 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, Terror. Kerry said, Obama said, Officials said, terror, fear, rebels, terrorists, militants, 9/11, Obama said, State Department said, rebels, militants, terror !
Keeps everyone's attention off the economy, Obamacare, the failed stimulus, and the border..... ::)
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Putin about usas new sanctionplans : -"cri me a river"
I got it, don't worry.
Just worried by how many here believe conspiracy theories. It was rebels/terrorists armed by Russia, they stole black box (now handing it over cos it must not contain incriminating evidence), Putin is a shit head and too many here buy his PR image, US and moreso EU are cowards if they don't stand up to Putin. This is Germany 1930s all over again. We're just annexing (anschlauss), we just need there, and here, fuck it, take this shit Poland...
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You are obviously unaware of the troubles Behemoth and Gorgoroth faced in Poland.
O, yes remember that, Bible burning or something but nothing happened to Nergal & boys !?
I have seen them 5 years ago, good band.
Ozzy was in court for satanic music ( :D) too, but ................
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I got it, don't worry.
Just worried by how many here believe conspiracy theories.
It was rebels/terrorists armed by Russia, they stole black box (now handing it over cos it must not contain incriminating evidence), Putin is a shit head and too many here buy his PR image, US and moreso EU are cowards if they don't stand up to Putin. This is Germany 1930s all over again. We're just annexing (anschlauss), we just need there, and here, fuck it, take this shit Poland...
How is this not a conspiracy theory? ???
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it's not directly putin's fault tho, just some dumb soldiers who made a "mistake" that cost the life of 300 completely innocent people. tHey definitely gave a very bad name to their "side".
Wouldnt want to be the guy who pushed the button.
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Keeps everyone's attention off the economy, Obamacare, the failed stimulus, and the border..... ::)
it's not intentional, it's just the way it is. People dont want to focus on what truly matters as they cant do anything about it. In the end it will explode anyway, as it always does, this is when world wars happen.
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JUST IN FROM CNN:
Terror, terror, terror- fear, fear,fear. Rebels, militants, terrorists, separatists.... terror, terror, terror. 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, Terror. Kerry said, Obama said, Officials said, terror, fear, rebels, terrorists, militants, 9/11, Obama said, State Department said, rebels, militants, terror !
X1000!
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I got it, don't worry.
Just worried by how many here believe conspiracy theories. It was rebels/terrorists armed by Russia, they stole black box (now handing it over cos it must not contain incriminating evidence), Putin is a shit head and too many here buy his PR image, US and moreso EU are cowards if they don't stand up to Putin. This is Germany 1930s all over again. We're just annexing (anschlauss), we just need there, and here, fuck it, take this shit Poland...
Just on Deutche Wele news, Putin was sweating on press conference :) :D ;D
He is still planing to rule Russia until 2024 ::) ::) ::)
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Very touchy ceremonies in Ukraine & Holland, almost :'(
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Just on Deutche Wele news, Putin was sweating on press conference :) :D ;D
He is still planing to rule Russia until 2024 ::) ::) ::)
He can if he wants to. Constitution or whatever they use says 2 consecutive terms as president is max, so he did two terms, put Medvedev in as puppet president while he was PM then became president again... He could do the same ad infinitum.
They need to pile the pressure on him now, make his balls shrink so he doesn't try this shit again. Maybe give him some of Eastern Ukraine on the agreement that he doesn't try this again (to be fair Crimea and that region was donated by a drunk Russian president and the people want to be part of Russia) - he looks like he won when really his loftier ambitions of reforming the USSR are stunted. Weak but probably the best outcome.
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4 X PM & 4 X russian prez,oh how "democracy" works in Siberia ::)
1 German politician is suggesting to take away 2018 World Cup from Russia ;D
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Here we go, the Dutch & Australian military police is heading for Ukraine :D
Could be nice warm up 4 another Stalingrad ;)