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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: Hedgehog on April 20, 2004, 03:47:46 PM

Title: Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside + Excersise
Post by: Hedgehog on April 20, 2004, 03:47:46 PM
I thought I would collect links to different training protocols and put it here for everyone interested in trying them out.

I'll keep this a living thread, and add links as we go along.

Max-OT  http://ast-ss.com/max-ot/max-ot_intro.asp (http://ast-ss.com/max-ot/max-ot_intro.asp)
(Please note that the supplement company AST is behind this protocol, and thus it has its fair share of supplement marketing)
Here's a link to the complete protocol, without having to sign up...
http://www.freedomfly.net/Documents/MAX-OT.pdf

HST www.hsnhst.com (http://www.hsnhst.com)

Basic Splits:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hreadid=143006


Conjugate splits/high frequency training:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hreadid=289834

HST (Hypertrophy Specific Training):
www.hypertrophy-specific.com
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hreadid=280813

HIT (High Intensity Training):
http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/article-hit-training.asp
http://www.naturalstrength.com/resea...?ArticleID=207

Extreme Stretching (to go along with DC):
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...89#post2046389

Dual Factor Hypertrophy Training (DFHT)
http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/showthread.php?t=682

Westside Training:
www.westside-barbell.com
www.elitefts.com
http://www.ironaddicts.com/articles/westsidemod.htm

German Volume Training (GVT)
http://www.strengthcats.com/CP-GVT.html
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/luis13.htm

Tri Phase Progressive Training (TP PT):
http://www.mindandmuscle.net/content/page-249.html

Abbreviated Training:
www.hardgainer.com
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/shannon13.htm

Russian Training
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hreadid=305786
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...threadid=74669

Bulgarian Training
http://www.tc.umn.edu/~keen0018/bulgar.htm

Undulated Periodization - Variable Repitition Training
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/alwyn3.htm

Bulgarian Weightlifting Training
http://www.tc.umn.edu/~keen0018/bulgar.htm (http://www.tc.umn.edu/~keen0018/bulgar.htm)

Power Reps Shock:
http://www.prrstraining.com/

Cardio protocols:
Tabata http://www.cbass.com/FATBURN.HTM (http://www.cbass.com/FATBURN.HTM)


-Hedge
Title: Re:Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside
Post by: jrbsn159 on April 21, 2004, 01:45:36 PM
Which program is the best for hardgainers (natural) looking to gain strength and mass?
Title: Re:Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside
Post by: Stubborn on April 21, 2004, 01:51:22 PM
HST and Max-OT are said to work for anyone. I like the looks of both of the programs and will start Max-OT on Monday. I just chose it because I like the rep/set scheme and there is no "planning" neccessary. Its all laid out. I would say HST is more for experienced lifters because its a little more complex. But, IMO you cant go wrong with either.

Peace!

P.S. I will be testing HST after a few cycles through Max-OT to campare which is better for me.

Title: Re:Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside
Post by: soldat on April 22, 2004, 06:25:37 AM
Good luck dude.
Title: Re:Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside
Post by: Viking11 on April 26, 2004, 09:08:21 PM
I favor HIT/Heavy Duty. More time efficient, more recovery time. I never grew training more than 3 days a week- 4 at the most for a few weeks only. HST would be my second choice, the other is too many lifting days a week for me, no time to recover the whole system.
Title: Re:Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside
Post by: Al on May 09, 2004, 11:25:50 AM
FYI

As most of you may know, most manufactures make their equipment overseas (China).  All steel products that are currently being sold here in the U.S. that are made in China are going to take a price increase within the next few months.  Some things already have.  There's many reasons for this but if your looking for anything from a set of dumbbells to a home workout system...the prices are going to go up.

I feel because of the huge importing we do from china...this could affect a lot of different products in the home not just weights.  





Actually, steel prices are skyrocketing all over the world and China is the place where they are likeliest to stabilize. China has twice the steel output capacity as America and it has the predominant coke export license for the EU. On top of that, they actually purchase the most  steel from the US-larger orders get better prices. Smaller American contractors are feeling the pinch so much more (especially since they are feeling it in other building materials like wood, as well as gas.). Prior to Bush lifting export tariffs, steel prices were rid-ic-u-low, steel manufacturers were barely surviving, but they've shot up almost 100% a ton in the past six months. The "steel shortage" is symptomatic of a soft economy and only temporary. Steel prices are reset every month while steel orders are usually long term contracts, so its unlikely that consumer products will be noticeably affected.


Topic? Doggcrapp-has anyone used this? It sounds scientifically unsound. Maybe I'm missing something ,but even if you're doing another exercise you're still working the same bodypart. So you're still defeating the point of recovery, right?
Title: Re:Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside
Post by: Samuraii on May 29, 2004, 11:40:28 PM
So..... HST and max-ot are identical and very good.... i am going on max-ot the start of june or somewhere in around there.  They both have the same fundamentals except max-ot benefits from increasing your maximum by incorporating 2 inclimations sets... if ur max was 275... with 3 warmup sets, 2 inclimation sets, and 3 heavy sets.... you should be able to put up 285lb on flat bench by yourself from 4-6 reps with positive failure.

Which is better to you guys, HST or max-ot?
Title: Re:Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside
Post by: Samuraii on May 29, 2004, 11:43:39 PM
So..... HST and max-ot are identical and very good.... i am going on max-ot the start of june or somewhere in around there.  They both have the same fundamentals except max-ot benefits from increasing your maximum by incorporating 2 inclimations sets... if ur max was 275... with 3 warmup sets, 2 inclimation sets, and 3 heavy sets.... you should be able to put up 285lb on flat bench by yourself from 4-6 reps with positive failure.

Which is better to you guys, HST or max-ot?
Title: Re:Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside
Post by: Hedgehog on May 30, 2004, 10:16:56 AM
So..... HST and max-ot are identical and very good....


No. They are not identical.

Quote
i am going on max-ot the start of june or somewhere in around there.  They both have the same fundamentals

Not really. HST will for one have you train either full body workouts, or split the body in two. Further, you will work every musclegroup at least 3 times a week. Not the case with Max-OT.

Lots of differences.

Quote
Which is better to you guys, HST or max-ot?


I've tried Max-OT. And currently I have been using HST for little over a year. IMO, HST is more effective.

The upside to Max-OT is how it all is laid out for you. It will take a little more effort to get into HST.

Go with your planned training. It will most likely yield great results.

YIP
Zack
Title: Re:Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside
Post by: what. on June 04, 2004, 07:49:23 AM
I like the 1-6 principal:
http://t-mag.com/html/body_58princ.html (http://t-mag.com/html/body_58princ.html)
Title: Re:Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside
Post by: milk on July 01, 2004, 07:33:38 PM
Which program is the best for hardgainers (natural) looking to gain strength and mass?

Try HST. I use a combination of Westside principles and Max-OT principles in my training regime.
Title: Re:Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside
Post by: soldat on July 02, 2004, 07:47:00 AM
They seem similar in thought so I don't see how can you combo them, unless you are speaking in terms of the exercise methodology.  Please explain.
Title: Re:Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside
Post by: Hatchet_Jack on July 16, 2004, 04:51:44 PM
I like the 1-6 principal:
http://t-mag.com/html/body_58princ.html (http://t-mag.com/html/body_58princ.html)


Also known as GEO's Principal

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re:Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside
Post by: Wolverine on August 23, 2004, 04:26:17 PM
Which program is the best for hardgainers (natural) looking to gain strength and mass?

im not the guy to anser this question, but remember the program is only part of, nutrition and proper supplementation are also a good part of it
Title: Excerise Data base.
Post by: strongman718 on December 09, 2004, 05:17:49 PM
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/exercises.htm

Here is a link to a site that list many diffrent movements for each body part if your looking to add a new movement to your routine and/or if your a newbie.  Just click on the body part and it will give all the info you need.
Title: Re: Excerise Data base.
Post by: yo on December 09, 2004, 06:40:03 PM
www.exrx.net

This is a great site for information on a lot of different types of training as well as excersises (muscle specific and power moves).
Title: Re: Excerise Data base.
Post by: strongman718 on December 09, 2004, 08:35:56 PM
www.exrx.net

This is a great site for information on a lot of different types of training as well as excersises (muscle specific and power moves).

good site yo.  If anybody eles has a good site post it and I will narrow it to 3.
Title: Re: Excerise Data base.
Post by: Princess L on December 10, 2004, 05:24:40 PM
http://www.bsu.edu/webapps/strengthlab/home.htm
Title: Re: Excerise Data base.
Post by: yo on January 10, 2005, 05:51:41 PM
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/exercises.htm I like the way that one is organized.

http://www.changingshape.com/exercise/directory/musclesused.asp this one is easy to use

http://www.athletes.com/fun/exercises.htm kinda the same as bbing.com but not to shabby either.
Title: Re: Excerise Data base.
Post by: strongman718 on January 11, 2005, 08:43:23 PM
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/exercises.htm I like the way that one is organized.

http://www.changingshape.com/exercise/directory/musclesused.asp this one is easy to use

http://www.athletes.com/fun/exercises.htm kinda the same as bbing.com but not to shabby either.

I already have bodybuilding.com up.  I like the other two as well.

What do you think yo or others.  Should I keep it to 3 or should I just keep it as a list?
Title: Re: Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside
Post by: persistancepays on March 04, 2005, 07:14:23 AM
I agree with wolverine.  A program is only a part of the picture.  It depends on the factors wolverine provides below as well as your recovery ability and lifestyle.  Neither Max-OT nor HST would work well for someone with a high stress 55-60 hour week job and family say, unless you kept the volume low in each session.  

Poliquin wrote over at t-mag a few years ago that many fail to take into account that training frequency changes over time --- there will be periods where you would do best doing 2 X a week while there might be (albeit for shorter duration) periods where you do 4-5 days per week.  The scientific literature has found that working your body 2X a week promotes the most benefit.

Lastly, over at bodybuilding.com, there is an interesting articles called "Strength Deficit" which offers a neat test and formula (very simple) to check if you would beenfit more from a workout with hypotrophy or strength/power emphasis.  

In parting, my best advice when evaluating a program is for the all to check out exercise prescription templates they offer.  You may not agree with their llow volume training philosophy BUT the templates are constructed well and their information is helpful (plus they have GREAT illustrations and decent descriptions of weight exercises).  

PS As for my preference -- HST as it avoids overprescribing exercises and set/rep routines, allowing the trainee to tailor a program to fit his abilities.  The only drawback is the trainee may fall into the habit of overdoing some exercises.  
Title: Re: Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside
Post by: Bast1 on March 21, 2005, 08:04:29 AM
Can someone post the MAX OT?    I don't want to join and get emails from AST.
Title: Re: Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside
Post by: Premium on March 21, 2005, 09:33:02 AM
Can someone post the MAX OT?    I don't want to join and get emails from AST.

i don't get any e-mails, there are over 25 pages of reading material...
Title: Re: Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside
Post by: CQ on March 21, 2005, 09:39:31 AM
Can someone post the MAX OT?    I don't want to join and get emails from AST.

Yeah.

I made the fatal mistake of signing up.
Title: Re: Excerise Data base.
Post by: SuperMike3288 on March 30, 2005, 07:11:04 AM
Great thread, you should keep it as a list.
Title: Re: Excerise Data base.
Post by: koolie1 on March 31, 2005, 06:54:21 AM
OH YEAH SUPER THREAD!!!
Title: Re: fast growth for bicepes
Post by: Nitesh Sharma on April 26, 2005, 01:45:42 AM
 sir,

 I am Nitesh Sharma & i am very keen to make my body. I am doing exercise from last 2 years but still i can't getting growth. when i started exercise i was very lean but now it is ok. I want to make my bicepes 15inch. Right now i have 13inch. I am not rich so give me that advice which can i do. SO please give me a effective advice for growth.
Title: Re: Excerise Data base.
Post by: Nathan on May 07, 2005, 08:13:18 AM
the 2 things you might want to consider is diet ie"how much calories you intake and are your carbs proteins and fats in proper amounts." the second factor is either
over or under trainning. you know if you are over training if you find your self feeling drained and slugish.
you are under training if you find that you lift the same wieght all the time. I am 5'11 180 and I have 16' arms and I take no supplements am a vegan (which means I don't eat meat or dairy products) and I'am an ectomorph so if i can do it any one can ;) what i've learned is it's all about balance. if your program is unbalanced proporly you will not make gaines or will make very slow gains. a good site to chek out is www.skiplacour.com
oh yeah I started at 130lbs and had 11' arms and I worked out on and off for 2 years but in the past 12 weeks I've been very consistant and in that time went from 160 to 180lbs.
also I lift as heavy as possible but always use proper form,
one week I do the 3-4x8-10reps and the next week I do 2-3x4-6reps. I hope all that yappin helps ya good luck ;D
Title: Re:Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside
Post by: 24Hourpro on June 09, 2005, 04:31:19 AM
HST and Max-OT are said to work for anyone. I like the looks of both of the programs and will start Max-OT on Monday. I just chose it because I like the rep/set scheme and there is no "planning" neccessary. Its all laid out. I would say HST is more for experienced lifters because its a little more complex. But, IMO you cant go wrong with either.

Peace!

P.S. I will be testing HST after a few cycles through Max-OT to campare which is better for me.



Evidence suggests that neither protocol provides enough volume. Especially for an advanced lifter.
Title: Re: Excerise Data base.
Post by: lilian on June 18, 2005, 12:01:46 AM
http://www.bsu.edu/webapps/strengthlab/home.htm

Page not found...

But there are tons of sites.
Just use Google...
Title: Re: Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside
Post by: Mars on June 22, 2005, 08:58:52 AM
Why do you people have to make lifting to be a f**king science? ...

Lol agree they love to make it very complicated.. fuckin morons.
Title: Re: Excerise Data base.
Post by: Mr. Intenseone on June 28, 2005, 04:39:50 PM
www.workoutware.com

I use it for all my clients!
Title: Re: Excerise Data base.
Post by: zamsforv on August 18, 2005, 12:12:05 AM
hiii dudes i wanna know abt  the best excersise   for biceps
Title: Re: Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside
Post by: jackass on October 01, 2005, 04:13:30 PM
Neither does the DC link.
Title: Re: Excerise Data base.
Post by: strongman718 on October 13, 2005, 07:58:43 PM
hiii dudes i wanna know abt  the best excersise   for biceps

 you got to find what works for you, but if I had to recommend one it would be the barbell curl\
Title: Re: Excerise Data base.
Post by: zamsforv on October 24, 2005, 09:08:21 PM
ghee thankz strong man ::) the next thing is i want huge shoulders how to make the deltiods  huge  ::)
Title: Re: Excerise Data base.
Post by: strongman718 on November 02, 2005, 01:05:08 PM
look bro no need for the sarcasm.  If you dont like the advise dont ask.
Title: Re: Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside
Post by: OTC_bodybuilder on November 23, 2005, 08:22:05 PM
Don't forget P/RR/S.
Title: Re: Excerise Data base.
Post by: pumpster on January 02, 2006, 10:59:58 AM
Quote
I am Nitesh Sharma & i am very keen to make my body. I am doing exercise from last 2 years but still i can't getting growth. when i started exercise i was very lean but now it is ok. I want to make my bicepes 15inch. Right now i have 13inch. I am not rich so give me that advice which can i do. SO please give me a effective advice for growth.

Nitesh, find out the Pakistani names for Dianabol & Deca and have a good '06! ;)
Title: Re: Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside
Post by: alexxx on January 18, 2006, 10:18:24 AM
why was my training protocol removed ??? 
"BLAST till you PAST" is a legitimate training program >:(
Title: Re: Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside
Post by: Luolamies on February 23, 2006, 02:01:16 AM

My two cent's
I think the three exercices and two heavy set's per exercice aka "Mr. Dugdale" style and Blood volume are insanely good routines both for gaining and during dieting as long as nutrition/rest is on the money!
Title: Re: Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside
Post by: GoneAway on February 27, 2006, 04:55:42 AM
There are SO many different ways of gaining muscle effectively that it would take a while to list, and that is speaking person-specific. Really, it's all about what works for YOU. Trial and error. That's how we got where we are today, with exercise and dieting knowledge, but going that step further than putting on an inch or two relies on smart training/dieting/resting.

In my life, I'm switching reps/sets from a "program" which I used for a few months, and had only noticable gains in the biceps which didn't last. So, if this new approach works, it's a testiment that you can make the most out of your own body by giving new things a go and listening to yourself (but stick with a certain program of sets/reps/exercises for at least a month, and then decide if you want to switch).

As "Chic" Betancourt said: "If you listen to too many people, your head will explode." Or something like that. Happy training!
Title: Re: Excerise Data base.
Post by: marilia05 on May 03, 2006, 04:42:44 PM
http://www.workout101.ca/
http://www.theministryoffitness.com/exercises.htm

Got them a few days ago - check them out.
Title: Re: Excerise Data base.
Post by: marilia05 on May 03, 2006, 04:49:27 PM
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/exercises.htm I like the way that one is organized.

http://www.changingshape.com/exercise/directory/musclesused.asp this one is easy to use

http://www.athletes.com/fun/exercises.htm kinda the same as bbing.com but not to shabby either.

I recognize "athletes.com"'s figs as the ones they have at bb.com - same pics.

Changing shape is really cool, especially for the people I need to show exercises to: they don't necessarily understand any English, so good illustrations, pics & animation is essencial.
thx
Title: Re: Excerise Data base.
Post by: Iron_Fist on May 31, 2006, 10:42:47 PM
www.Trainersbible.com

This site seems fairly new but has great content!
Title: Re: Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside
Post by: Your MAAAAaaaa on August 20, 2006, 10:09:34 AM
hedgie

why in the sample workout for HST does it not include deads?

I Understand it would be difficult to incorporate but it shows three days with pull downs and rows?

Is this because of the amount of squats or what?


ta ta
Title: Re: Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside
Post by: Hedgehog on August 21, 2006, 02:39:52 PM
hedgie

why in the sample workout for HST does it not include deads?

I Understand it would be difficult to incorporate but it shows three days with pull downs and rows?

Is this because of the amount of squats or what?


ta ta

Pretty much due to squats being in there too.

A lot of guys alternate a couple of excersises, usually have a workout 1 and 2.

At least that's what I think works best.

Put squats in wk1, dl's in wk2.

Some other excersises could also be alternated, like close grip bench presses and dips.

You would have an increase in the workload in three workouts then obviously, and with bigger increments.

YIP
Zack
Title: Re: Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside
Post by: Your MAAAAaaaa on August 22, 2006, 11:44:17 AM
i've started the program and previously being a hit trainer its hard for me to get my head round the amount of set reps i'll be doing is this routine worth trying in your opinion?

secondly the site say working up through the weights over 2 weeks do you think doing it over one week would matter? then say changing the rep scheme or is two weeks better?

im just picking your brains here thanks for the advice before!


ta ta
Title: Re: Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside
Post by: Hedgehog on August 23, 2006, 08:45:27 AM
i've started the program and previously being a hit trainer its hard for me to get my head round the amount of set reps i'll be doing is this routine worth trying in your opinion?

secondly the site say working up through the weights over 2 weeks do you think doing it over one week would matter? then say changing the rep scheme or is two weeks better?

im just picking your brains here thanks for the advice before!


ta ta

You won't get that many workouts in if you do it in just one week. But aside from that, it would work fine IMO.

One thing I had to "re-program" myself, being a former HIT guy myself, was that you only use the amount of weight that is required to cause growth.

This amount gradually increases, as the muscle becomes accustomed to training, but no point in lifting anything more than is needed to cause the growth.

YIP
Zack
Title: Re: Excerise Data base.
Post by: WOOO on September 06, 2006, 02:46:44 AM
www.Trainersbible.com

This site seems fairly new but has great content!
bump for critical errors
Title: Re: Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside
Post by: Your MAAAAaaaa on September 20, 2006, 02:08:54 AM
well i have to say against my better judgement this way of training is unfckingbelievable!!!!


Strength is way up i've put on 3 lbs in about a month this is even with me cutting at the moment as well, i'm totally convinced that this training routine is the mutts nuts and that my old HIT training is something I should do when i am inhumanly strong as i don't shift enough weight to make one set count.

My back thickness has just been incredible and well all over the progress is amazing although i don't know how long this rate will last!!

definately worth a try if you ask me!


ta ta
Title: Re: Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside
Post by: AMNIMAL on September 23, 2006, 06:48:42 PM
why was my training protocol removed ??? 
"BLAST till you PAST" is a legitimate training program >:(

Quick question, Do you or have you ever competed?
Title: Re: Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside
Post by: alexxx on September 23, 2006, 06:54:58 PM
Quick question, Do you or have you ever competed?

Yes! I did mr.Getbig 2006! 8)
Title: Re: Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside
Post by: AMNIMAL on September 23, 2006, 07:04:17 PM
WHat Wt. Class did you compete in and how did things turn out?
Title: Re: Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside
Post by: alexxx on September 23, 2006, 07:05:41 PM
WHat Wt. Class did you compete in and how did things turn out?

Its an open weight class and I am still awaiting my placing.
Title: Re: Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside
Post by: WOOO on October 28, 2006, 04:31:59 AM
Its an open weight class and I am still awaiting my placing.

you were judged, "most likely to be found crushed by 135lbs on the smith machine"
Title: Re: Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside
Post by: the governor on November 29, 2006, 08:07:58 PM
is ther such a thing as over training i have been just getting back to what i love  Working out  it has been ab out 15 years i am now 36 and have been hitting the gym twice a day for like 2 and a half hours each time sleeping right and eating well three on 1 off
Title: Re: Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside
Post by: Stubborn on November 30, 2006, 01:20:47 PM
is ther such a thing as over training i have been just getting back to what i love  Working out  it has been ab out 15 years i am now 36 and have been hitting the gym twice a day for like 2 and a half hours each time sleeping right and eating well three on 1 off

Absolutely.
Title: Re: Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside
Post by: JimmyTheFish on December 05, 2006, 05:34:20 PM
well i have to say against my better judgement this way of training is unfckingbelievable!!!!


Strength is way up i've put on 3 lbs in about a month this is even with me cutting at the moment as well, i'm totally convinced that this training routine is the mutts nuts and that my old HIT training is something I should do when i am inhumanly strong as i don't shift enough weight to make one set count.

My back thickness has just been incredible and well all over the progress is amazing although i don't know how long this rate will last!!

definately worth a try if you ask me!


ta ta

hey YM -- Are you still using the HST method?

are you doing whole body or splitting the body?

Title: Re: Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside + Excersise
Post by: sholtstraining on August 22, 2007, 11:18:18 AM
where is milos training phiolosphy of feeding the muscles during training.. and extremely high volume drop set giant sets...i see you left this one out
Title: Re: Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside + Excersise
Post by: Painlayer69 on June 21, 2008, 09:09:17 PM
Anyone have good experiences with the GVT program?? i am starting it tomorrow and would just like to hear how well it has worked for other trainees

Thanx
Title: Re: Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside + Excersise
Post by: Warren on June 21, 2008, 09:15:30 PM
Anyone have good experiences with the GVT program?? i am starting it tomorrow and would just like to hear how well it has worked for other trainees

Thanx
it's stupid unless you're already advanced and at the point of a bench well into the 400's and squats and pulls in the 600's, then you'll be able to use weights for those sets of 10 that will really tax you instead of this little bitch ass 100-150 pounds that a lot of guys are trying to use, all that will do is get you smaller and weaker in a hurry.
Title: Re: Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside + Excersi
Post by: Cap on June 21, 2008, 09:18:07 PM
it's stupid unless you're already advanced and at the point of a bench well into the 400's and squats and pulls in the 600's, then you'll be able to use weights for those sets of 10 that will really tax you instead of this little bitch ass 100-150 pounds that a lot of guys are trying to use, all that will do is get you smaller and weaker in a hurry.
Ouch, that hurts. Lol.  You'd be surprised how your body will adapt to those "bitch" weights.

It's a good protocol for change, growth, giving the body a new way to grow, and a good break for the joints.
Title: Re: Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside + Excersise
Post by: Painlayer69 on June 21, 2008, 11:39:46 PM
Yeah thanx alot CAP i was thinking about that i need a good break from the old and something to kinda shock my system for new growth.

And warren dont you think that a guy useing 150lbs for a hard set of ten would still be taxed the same way a stronger guy would be thats able to use a heavier weight for the same amount of reps??

Think about that
Title: Re: Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside + Excersise
Post by: Painlayer69 on July 13, 2008, 04:32:52 PM
Anyone else having trouble with the AST site?


  I am trying the max-ot regimin and im trying to get the routine for my last day of the week ( Its backwards from how they put it together ) But the site wont even freakin load it just says WEBSITE NOT FOUND
Title: ExRX.net - Great site
Post by: Emmortal on November 19, 2008, 05:53:05 PM
http://exrx.net/

Great resource.
Title: Re: Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside + Excersi
Post by: Gavin Laird on January 14, 2010, 05:01:56 AM
UHT is now available free...

www.ultimate-hypertrophy.com

Title: Re: Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside + Excersise
Post by: peaker on June 02, 2011, 08:17:58 PM
Great list of sites. I got amazing results with HIT, it's not for everyone but strength,recovery and overall energy levels have improved dramatically.
Title: Re: Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside + Excersise
Post by: rocco-x on July 22, 2016, 01:51:32 PM
Holy sweaty ballsack Hedge...great links.

   I've used a few of these routines with good to great results.
Shit I've not seen the infamous Bulgarian Burst System in yeeears! Phil Hernon used to rep for the creator or at least the one who was making paper off it lol.
 I was in my early 20s n tried both routine and diet eating up to 9-10,000cals a day! I would eat entire small chickens,pounds of potatoes, half London broils.my gf would cook at her moms plus our apt filling both freezers.
   That shit lasted maybe a month.went thru tons of toilet paper as well cause you basically eat,workout,shit,nap,eat then shit some more...
   About to embark on a basic beginners DC routine after a long horrendous 4yr layoff.

   Great links brother...roc.
Title: Re: Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside + Excersise
Post by: Rmj11 on June 16, 2019, 04:21:08 AM
Hit = historically idiotic training

Max-OT just another version of hit promoted by “drug free” Skip LeCour (cough cough)

DC training was exactly that...dog crap

GVT is good but is better if done over 3-4 exercises instead of one exercise. Instead of doing bench for 10x10, do bench, incline, flys for 3-4x10 each for a total of 10-12 sets for chest. Get better development that way.

Volume is what built the best bodies. There is nothing new under the sun in bodybuilding. What works, sticks. What doesn’t, comes and goes like a fad, just like hit.
Title: Re: Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside + Excersise
Post by: Equalizer on June 29, 2019, 10:56:01 PM
Hit = historically idiotic training

Max-OT just another version of hit promoted by “drug free” Skip LeCour (cough cough)

DC training was exactly that...dog crap

GVT is good but is better if done over 3-4 exercises instead of one exercise. Instead of doing bench for 10x10, do bench, incline, flys for 3-4x10 each for a total of 10-12 sets for chest. Get better development that way.

Volume is what built the best bodies. There is nothing new under the sun in bodybuilding. What works, sticks. What doesn’t, comes and goes like a fad, just like hit.
[/ Captain Mantastic I see you found getbig
Title: Re: Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside + Excersise
Post by: AbrahamG on June 30, 2019, 12:57:41 AM
Terrific bump.
Title: Re: Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside + Excersise
Post by: oldtimer1 on December 27, 2023, 06:58:12 PM
I have to laugh at HST. Really three whole body routines a week is something new?  I'm glad new light was shown on effective basic training though.  Training the whole body in one shot is sometimes called a beginner routine. Nope, it's the absolute hardest way to train.

What makes it great is that it trains a body part three times a week and some weeks if you just get it done twice you are still moving in a positive direction. Looking at the HST site it point outs if your are doing a split training a body part once a week you might be doing six work sets a body part. In say a whole body training session you might hit a body part for two sets in one day but done three times a week you are doing six sets a body part. The HST site points out that it might be more effective to hit the body part three times a week instead of blitzing it for one day.

The whole body training routine was a staple in the 30's, 40's and 50'. Still had many followers in the 60's but fell out of favor once Dianabol made it's appearance. Tommy Kono the hall of fame Olympic lifter and bodybuilder was very adamant about training three days a week training the whole body in one session. Now elite Olympic lifters train 6 days a week but I bet as they get closer to the competition date they might have a better taper using three days a week. Then again who am I to suggest that? Tommy Kono did repeatedly.

I always had good success with a whole body routine but I found I found it leads to burn out pretty quick. It's a very hard way to train.

Some draw backs.

1. You can't train a body part with many different exercises. One or two tops a session. If you feel the need for variety you can change the exercises each training day or change them after a set period of time like every two weeks.

2. A training session can leave you devastated.   Something you won't get with a chest day or a a shoulder day.

Some real benefits.

1. Your body tires a unit and fatigue isn't localized to just a body part trained. So with a whole body routine your train and rest the body as a unit.

2. Body parts don't work in isolation. When you sprint, box, wrestle or throw a basket ball in a hoop your body is working in a complete coordinated pattern of muscles working together.  Why not train the body like that in one session? Think an athlete would benefit from an arm day in the gym? Nope, he certainly would benefit from doing power cleans, squats, presses, chins, dips and the rest in one athletic training session.

I typed too much. I heard there are naked women on the internet. I intend to find out if that's true.
Title: Re: Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside + Excersise
Post by: IroNat on December 28, 2023, 07:03:40 AM
I have to laugh at HST. Really three whole body routines a week is something new?  I'm glad new light was shown on effective basic training though.  Training the whole body in one shot is sometimes called a beginner routine. Nope, it's the absolute hardest way to train.

What makes it great is that it trains a body part three times a week and some weeks if you just get it done twice you are still moving in a positive direction. Looking at the HST site it point outs if your are doing a split training a body part once a week you might be doing six work sets a body part. In say a whole body training session you might hit a body part for two sets in one day but done three times a week you are doing six sets a body part. The HST site points out that it might be more effective to hit the body part three times a week instead of blitzing it for one day.

The whole body training routine was a staple in the 30's, 40's and 50'. Still had many followers in the 60's but fell out of favor once Dianabol made it's appearance. Tommy Kono the hall of fame Olympic lifter and bodybuilder was very adamant about training three days a week training the whole body in one session. Now elite Olympic lifters train 6 days a week but I bet as they get closer to the competition date they might have a better taper using three days a week. Then again who am I to suggest that? Tommy Kono did repeatedly.

I always had good success with a whole body routine but I found I found it leads to burn out pretty quick. It's a very hard way to train.

Some draw backs.

1. You can't train a body part with many different exercises. One or two tops a session. If you feel the need for variety you can change the exercises each training day or change them after a set period of time like every two weeks.

2. A training session can leave you devastated.   Something you won't get with a chest day or a a shoulder day.

Some real benefits.

1. Your body tires a unit and fatigue isn't localized to just a body part trained. So with a whole body routine your train and rest the body as a unit.

2. Body parts don't work in isolation. When you sprint, box, wrestle or throw a basket ball in a hoop your body is working in a complete coordinated pattern of muscles working together.  Why not train the body like that in one session? Think an athlete would benefit from an arm day in the gym? Nope, he certainly would benefit from doing power cleans, squats, presses, chins, dips and the rest in one athletic training session.

I typed too much. I heard there are naked women on the internet. I intend to find out if that's true.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExM3g4cnkza3hycWZvZnNkdTE3NHFhNHR6ajFzaXhwbXo5N2c2NGUzOSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/ljookvhfvUQ0w/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside + Excersise
Post by: Rmj11 on December 28, 2023, 12:48:50 PM
I have to laugh at HST. Really three whole body routines a week is something new?  I'm glad new light was shown on effective basic training though.  Training the whole body in one shot is sometimes called a beginner routine. Nope, it's the absolute hardest way to train.

What makes it great is that it trains a body part three times a week and some weeks if you just get it done twice you are still moving in a positive direction. Looking at the HST site it point outs if your are doing a split training a body part once a week you might be doing six work sets a body part. In say a whole body training session you might hit a body part for two sets in one day but done three times a week you are doing six sets a body part. The HST site points out that it might be more effective to hit the body part three times a week instead of blitzing it for one day.

The whole body training routine was a staple in the 30's, 40's and 50'. Still had many followers in the 60's but fell out of favor once Dianabol made it's appearance. Tommy Kono the hall of fame Olympic lifter and bodybuilder was very adamant about training three days a week training the whole body in one session. Now elite Olympic lifters train 6 days a week but I bet as they get closer to the competition date they might have a better taper using three days a week. Then again who am I to suggest that? Tommy Kono did repeatedly.

I always had good success with a whole body routine but I found I found it leads to burn out pretty quick. It's a very hard way to train.

Some draw backs.

1. You can't train a body part with many different exercises. One or two tops a session. If you feel the need for variety you can change the exercises each training day or change them after a set period of time like every two weeks.

2. A training session can leave you devastated.   Something you won't get with a chest day or a a shoulder day.

Some real benefits.

1. Your body tires a unit and fatigue isn't localized to just a body part trained. So with a whole body routine your train and rest the body as a unit.

2. Body parts don't work in isolation. When you sprint, box, wrestle or throw a basket ball in a hoop your body is working in a complete coordinated pattern of muscles working together.  Why not train the body like that in one session? Think an athlete would benefit from an arm day in the gym? Nope, he certainly would benefit from doing power cleans, squats, presses, chins, dips and the rest in one athletic training session.

I typed too much. I heard there are naked Men on the internet. I intend to find out if that's true.

For full development you are going to need to do a variety of exercises. Not 1 or 2 exercises per bodypart is going to give you full development of all aspects. It can't be done. So splits become almost necessary. The full body routines of the old schoolers were basically the same volume as the splits of today done on 1 day for 3-4 hours a pop.

Bottom line-for full development you are certainly going to need more than 2 exercises per muscle for even the smallest muscle. That's why bb's do lot's of exercises.

Additionally-"full body" is really a myth. There are just different degrees of splitting your body up.

Assuming one keeps the systemic stress down per workout, splits allow training more frequently, more exercise variety and frankly more work which is going to net greater protein degradation and greater metabolic response from the muscle.

That is why bodybuilders past a certain level universally use them.
Title: Re: Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside + Excersise
Post by: oldtimer1 on December 28, 2023, 03:27:50 PM
For full development you are going to need to do a variety of exercises. Not 1 or 2 exercises per bodypart is going to give you full development of all aspects. It can't be done. So splits become almost necessary. The full body routines of the old schoolers were basically the same volume as the splits of today done on 1 day for 3-4 hours a pop.

Bottom line-for full development you are certainly going to need more than 2 exercises per muscle for even the smallest muscle. That's why bb's do lot's of exercises.

Additionally-"full body" is really a myth. There are just different degrees of splitting your body up.

Assuming one keeps the systemic stress down per workout, splits allow training more frequently, more exercise variety and frankly more work which is going to net greater protein degradation and greater metabolic response from the muscle.

That is why bodybuilders past a certain level universally use them.

I disagree with you but what else is new. No one needs 4 or 5 different bicep exercises. I understand the need if you're a competitive drug taking bodybuilder but that's not a true athletic activity is it?

 You can get big and strong using as little as four weight  exercises. Further for athletic training to become a better athlete using supplemental weight training bodybuilding training doing a split of multiple different exercises is insane. Many American football players do something like an explosive movement like a power clean, squat then a press. That's it.

 Many ripped built body weight exercise guys are lucky if they use one movement per body part.

You can get all you can out of lifting for bodybuilding purposes if you train naturally with one or two movements per body part. I content the majority of athletes and bodybuilders would be served well training the whole body in one shot like the lifters of the past. Having said that I have used split training for the majority of my 50 plus years of training. It's easier than a whole body routine. No way to dispute that. When you do a whole body routing like Grimek, Reeves, Kono and host of others you have to limit the amount of exercises you use or it couldn't be done. Reeves used something you might be happy with. He used three exercises a body part for three sets each. 
Title: Re: Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside + Excersise
Post by: Rmj11 on December 28, 2023, 03:45:55 PM
I disagree with you but what else is new. No one needs 4 or 5 different bicep exercises. I understand the need if you're a competitive drug taking bodybuilder but that's not a true athletic activity is it?

 You can get big and strong using as little as four weight  exercises. Further for athletic training to become a better athlete using supplemental weight training bodybuilding training doing a split of multiple different exercises is insane. Many American football players do something like an explosive movement like a power clean, squat then a press. That's it.

 Many ripped built body weight exercise guys are lucky if they use one movement per body part.

You can get all you can out of lifting for bodybuilding purposes if you train naturally with one or two movements per body part. I content the majority of athletes and bodybuilders would be served well training the whole body in one shot like the lifters of the past. Having said that I have used split training for the majority of my 50 plus years of training. It's easier than a whole body routine. No way to dispute that. When you do a whole body routing like Grimek, Reeves, Kono and host of others you have to limit the amount of exercises you use or it couldn't be done. Reeves used something you might be happy with. He used three exercises a body part for three sets each.

It is purely a myth that "old school" guys did these short little workouts. At least the ones with development. They would do multiple exercises per bp, but did not split their routines. Essentially, they did full body....for 3-5 hours a day. That was part of the "sleeze" of the original Muscle Beach-many of the guys didn't work and just lifted ALL DAY which was more frowned upon in the 50's then it would be today even.

Muscle Magazines did not "impose" splits on people. Why would they? Is it good marketing to recommend MORE work? Do you know many diet books that say "this diet is hard to follow?" Why do you think HIT still has any followers? Because people want to believe that less is more.

Also Muscle magazines, people following the wrong routines is not the magazines fault, it is the fault of the enthusiasm of the trainee. NO Muscle magazine that I know of tells beginners to do splits. I have plenty of books from Weider, Kennedy, etc (the publishers). They have plenty of basic routines, and in fact preach moderation. Ironically, the one that pushed "basics" and "O-lifts" (Hoffman) was the same one having his guys use d-bol while saying it was isometrics causing their gains...

On another note female gymnasts train 6-8 hours a day-6 days per week. If these 13 year old girls can do it, don't you think that guys with higher test can do it? Course they can.

Plenty of natural bodybuilders with great development train 4 to 6 days a week. None do full body workouts.

Another thing to consider. Full body's are considered superior as the body works as one unit. This is false. Reaction to and adaptation to exercise is EXTREMELY specific, and even has a name in exercise physiology: SAID-Specific adaptation to imposed demand.

In fact, most strength gains are very specific to a range of motion and rep range.

Case in point: Go out of your groove on a squat or bench press and see how "full body" your training is lol. Change your grip width or squat stance width. See how your ability to do the same weights plummets. Most activities/sports call for specific adaptation.

This means that even if you are training each bodypart with an exercise you really aren't doing "full body" as you obviously aren't hitting all aspects and angles.

Full body is an illusion.

Title: Re: Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside + Excersise
Post by: oldtimer1 on December 28, 2023, 04:09:17 PM
The body works as a unit and fatigues as a unit. Any athletic activity from sprinting, jumping or fighting the muscles don't work in isolation. 

Short little workouts? I want you to try a typical full body workout and get back to me how easy and short it is. Use warms up where you need and none where you don't need it. Push to failure. The sets shown are work sets.

Power cleans 3 x 3 then 1 x 1

Squats 2 x 8 then 1 x 1
Lunges 2 x 8

Pull ups 2 x max
Seated cable row 2 x 12

Bench press 2 x 8
dips 2 x 8

military press 2 x 8
Dumbbell delt laterals 2 x 10

Tricep pulley push downs 2 x 10
Barbell curls 2 x 10

Standing calf raise 2 x 15

Weighted back hyper extensions 2 x 15

Then complete the workout with some ab and neck work.

It should take you an 75 minutes to 90 minutes.  If you find it easy you weren't using what for you is heavy weights.

I'm not responding to you anymore unless you put up a picture of your self to show you practice what you preach. If you are a drug user don't bother. I never call myself a bodybuilder but I am an athlete.

Title: Re: Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside + Excersise
Post by: Rmj11 on December 28, 2023, 04:40:23 PM
You make a LOT of unsubstantiated statements as fact.


If intensity is all that mattered, 1 set for 1 rep at max weight would give maximum results. That is obviously not the case. You say you are an athelete so you really can't believe "momentary effort" is all that matters. The fact of the matter is, most successful trainers combine a certain level of volume with a certain level of intensity.

To say a full body routine is harder on "chest" than a "chest" day is false if talking in terms of overall body fatigue, but fatiguing your overall body is not the goal, correct? and is really not related to it's effectiveness as a bodybuilding routine.

Your little routine there looks like a stuart mcrobert workout which does little for bodybuilding. No-one is going to get big and developed on that routine.

The body does not work as a unit when it comes to bodybuilding. I've debunked your nonsense once again.
Title: Re: Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside + Excersise
Post by: IroNat on December 29, 2023, 06:38:05 AM
I disagree with you but what else is new. No one needs 4 or 5 different bicep exercises. I understand the need if you're a competitive drug taking bodybuilder but that's not a true athletic activity is it?

You can get big and strong using as little as four weight  exercises. Further for athletic training to become a better athlete using supplemental weight training bodybuilding training doing a split of multiple different exercises is insane. Many American football players do something like an explosive movement like a power clean, squat then a press. That's it.

 Many ripped built body weight exercise guys are lucky if they use one movement per body part.

You can get all you can out of lifting for bodybuilding purposes if you train naturally with one or two movements per body part. I content the majority of athletes and bodybuilders would be served well training the whole body in one shot like the lifters of the past. Having said that I have used split training for the majority of my 50 plus years of training. It's easier than a whole body routine. No way to dispute that. When you do a whole body routing like Grimek, Reeves, Kono and host of others you have to limit the amount of exercises you use or it couldn't be done. Reeves used something you might be happy with. He used three exercises a body part for three sets each. 

Agree with the above highlighted points.

The old time bodybuilders like Clancy Ross, George Eiferman, and early Reg Park however did train for 2-3 hours pre-contest with either split or whole body routines.  The pace of these workouts is unknown.  Longer rest periods may have been used.

The belief was that these long, exhausting workouts were required to gain definition.  Cardio wasn't done then but these long sessions burned extra calories like cardio.

Split routines were done even in the 40s/50s but not exclusively like since the 60s.

See this article regarding Clancy Ross routines.
As you can see, Ross used a variety of different routines along the way.
Leading up to the 1945 Mr. America contest Ross trained six days per week with an upper/lower body split.

>

Routines I Have Used - Clarence Ross (1951)


I have the type of mind which some would call methodical. I like to think things out and to plan each move, and
I have always kept a careful record of my training programs as well as notes concerning what they have and
have not done for me. In addition, my active work as an instructor has kept constantly aware of the various
stages the lifter goes through, for in my gym I have members who are in all degrees of development, from rank
beginners to real stars. Therefore, I have never lost touch with my past, even while thinking of the future. The
exercise and developmental changes I went through are being reenacted before me by my pupils daily. I note
that in each there is a similarity to the changes I went through, from beginner to advanced champion. In
speaking to the various other advanced men I have found that they too went through stages which resembled my
own, once I refreshed their memories with certain questions.

Therefore, for the first time, I believe it is possible for an author to present to his readers certain facts connected
with the development of championship form which most of the stars went through, as brought out in the
routines I followed myself. With this information at hand, the interested bodybuilder can pick up at the point in
his own training which is approximately the same that my own was at a certain stage of my lifting career, and
then, if he follow the PRINCIPLES and utilizes some of the workout IDEAS set down for that time he should
be positive of making gains. In this way he will be able to eliminate programs which are too advanced for his
level, and also be able to skip over those which are too elementary to do him much good.
It must be remembered that since I began my active career in 1940, there have been definite advances made in
bodybuilding. Therefore, while I will give some of my actual programs, there will also be some comments
added concerning these, based on my present experience with more modern methods. In this way, while the
report of my training programs will be accurate, this report will also be brought up to current standards by my
comments.

In 1938, weighing just 135 pounds, I began my training. At that time, sets were not very well known, at least
not as we know them today, and the accepted training was the single set system in which a dozen of so basic exercises were followed,
each 10 reps, never performing more than one set of any exercise, and never returning back to any exercise once you had completed a set of it.

At the very start, having practically no knowledge of weight training, I thought like so many do, even to this
day, that the exercise session consisted mainly of lifting weights above the head while in a standing position.
For several months I did nothing but standing presses! I just lifted a weight to my shoulders, pushed it overhead,
lowered it to shoulders, pressed it again and so on. Press, press and press . . . that was all! I got a little stronger
in this particular exercise as a result, but didn’t have much muscle to show for my efforts after two months.
It was then that a training partner mapped out a more complete course for me, which was . . . one set, 10 reps
each of the following: squats, shrugs, standing press, bent-over rowing, bent arm lying laterals, barbell curl,
upright rowing, repetition cleans to the shoulder, press behind neck, pullover, lying floor press and deadlift.
I trained three times a week and spent about 11⁄2 years on this routine, or a very similar one, changing one
exercise or so once in a while. In addition, I performed all exercises very stiffly and in rigid form which was the
generally advised procedure at that time. I gained 30 pounds in that year and a half. Then I grew discouraged
with my training for I had reached a sticking point, and gave up exercise for two years.

In looking back at this first routine I feel that for the beginner, with certain corrections such as grouping the
exercises a bit differently, it was basically a good one. In fact it is quite similar to the ones given to the beginner
in many systems of lifting. However, it was too limited. At first I made some nice gains, but then with no way
to progress other than to add more weight to the various exercises I grew bored with the routine. It failed to
continue to stimulate me and since there seemed to be no change possible to help me, I just gave up. Had I
known about sets at that time, I would probably never have taken that long layoff. So by sticking to a beginner’s
routine for too long I wasted about three years which could have been used to good advantage. This is one
lesson every lifter can learn well – a routine must be changed from time to time to make it more progressive and
interesting to avoid the sticking point in training and to keep enthusiasm going strong.

In 1942 I went into the service, weighing 155 pounds, having lost 10 pounds after giving up training. It was
while in the service that I met my now good friend Leo Stern and recaptured my interest in the weights. The
regular set system was still not well known at that time, but Leo mapped out a program which I will refer to as a
split-set program. In it, there were 30 or 35 exercises and while more than one set of each exercise was not
usually done one right after the other, a number of the exercises appeared more than once in the routine. This
sample program will illustrate this: upright row, incline press, lateral raise, alternate curl and press with
dumbbells, pullover and floor press, rowing motion, dumbbell curl, dip, upright row, incline press, lateral raise,
dumbbell curl, rowing motion, pullover and press, alternate curl and press with dumbbells, dips, upright row,
incline press, lateral raise, barbell curl, pullover and press, rowing motion, dip, sit-up, side bend, and then three
sets of squats and two sets of leg raises.

As can be seen from the above routine, most of the exercises appeared more than once at various points in the
program, but only in the squats and leg presses were a true set system practiced. The others were split up.
This method of training was popular at that time and was the forerunner of the regular set system as we know it
today. It also combined a certain amount of flushing muscle principle as well as even a bit of the super set
method. In addition, I relaxed my training style to some extent and included a form of moderate cheating in the
movements.

I realized big gains in bulk, endurance and power from this program. Looking back that the program now I feel
that better results would have been made if I had advanced right into a real set series as we now practice it. This
split-set type of routine does not give the complete flushness of a regular set series, but it was such an
improvement over anything I had done in the past that I made great gains. I continued to train three times a
week as before . . .
more frequent training was considered by most authorities at that time as being harmful,though rumors were
beginning to get around about some of the stars who did more and who reported good results.


Now I went into the next advancement in my program. I noticed that my legs needed more work so I decided to
specialize on them. While I did not train more than three days a week, in studying my own reactions to heavy
leg work, I came to the conclusion that it would be necessary for me to split up my training and devote an
exercise session entirely to them, with separate sessions for my upper body. I just didn’t have the energy to do it
all in one workout. So on my three weekly workout days I performed all my upper-body work in the morning,
and then this same day in the afternoon I did my squats and leg presses as well as calf raises. Basically, the
exercises remained the same as listed above, with the exception that I did my leg work during a separate session
devoted entirely to them. This plan is of course impractical for those who do not have the free time I was
fortunate enough to have then, and based on my present experience I will say that it will work nearly as well for
them if they do their leg work first in the training session when their energy is highest, and then follow this with
their other exercises. This is a plan I follow to this day, for except before a contest I still train only three times a
week, though my workouts are longer and harder than ever before.

At this time I once again hit a sort of sticking point in my training. I had made such great advances that there
was now no question in my mind about continuing my training, but I knew that I needed a change. I felt as
though I needed more power . . . that my strength had to be drastically increased so that I could extend myself
more in future training. I reduced my repetitions in the exercises, used heavier weights and cut down the
number of exercises in my program. I also included some weightlifting movements, such as heavy standing
presses and repetition snatches and clean & jerks. The lifting movements were first on the program, and several
sets were done of each. The balance of the routine had squats, shrugs, deadlifts, curls, pullover, bench press and
so on. Not too many exercises and still not performed in regular set series style, though the same exercises did
appear several times in the workout.

On this program I did indeed gain a lot of power and looked better. My enthusiasm was at a real high. Once
again, the change did me good, and another training approach – Power Training – had given me another step
forward.

It was then that a number of us on the coast, who were training together with similar methods, began to think
about the 1945 Mr. America title.
We planned for this well in advance . . . in fact, six months in ahead. The first
three months I spent on a semi-specialized program. I trained the entire body, but paid special attention to one
part, such as the arms, for several weeks, concentrating on these mainly, and filling in with other all around
exercises. I still practiced the split-set program, with most of the exercises being performed several times at
different points in the program. Every few weeks I specialized on another part until I hit all major body groups
with specialized movements. I also used some cables and other pieces of apparatus during this time which
added to my muscularity and general improvement.

I then made a change and went on a bulk course. I needed more weight. The way we trained for bulk in those
days was to sort of “fatten” up. This was done by following a limited program, one set each of the following:
standing press, barbell curl, upright row, bench press, incline bench press, deadlift, squat, leg press and calf
raise. Each exercise was done for 10 reps and only for one set. In addition I drank a lot of milk, took life easy
and gained weight.

It was then when personal temperament and physical type manifested itself to me. To this day I still find that a
routine similar to the one above gives me more bulk, though today at my more advanced level I perform three
sets of each exercise. However, I know that other advanced men find that lower reps suit them better, so all that
we can learn from the above is that a curtailed routine, one in which less than the normal amount of exercises
are performed is good for bulk. THE REPS AND SETS WILL DEPEND A LOT UPON THE INDIVIDUAL. It
is important that you realize this.Then, after the above routine for a month, I went into a definition program.
In doing this I followed the same exercises, but increased the repetitions to 15 or 20 and shortened my rest breaks
between exercises. Here too,such a plan has since always suited me best. But certain other lifters have found a different plan as being best
for them when seeking definition, such as performing a greater number of exercises, or even using very heavy
weights in their limit lifts. So the lesson to be learned from this is that FOR MORE DEFINITION YOU MUST
WORK HARDER . . . either more reps, more exercises or heavier lifts . . . limit lifts.
Exactly how you apply
this principle depends upon YOUR REACTION FROM PERSONAL TESTS, but the theory will always work
when used.

The last month before the contest I trained every day, pumping up every muscle in my body to the limit. I split
up the program, performing all upper body training one day and lower body the next. A large variety of
movements were followed, and my exact routine would serve no purpose other than to bring out that fact.
I used
weighted boots, headstrap, wrist roller, kettlebells and every exercise and apparatus known! This was the most
advanced short-term pre-contest training known at that time
, though today certain stars train three times a day
before a contest, devoting a training session to one major part.

After the (1945) Mr. America contest, which I am proud to have won, I went into a regular set series program for the
first time, performing this routine three times a week, 3 sets, 10 reps each exercise: squat, calf raise, bench
press, bent over rowing, upright rowing, barbell curl, reverse curl, triceps curl and sit-up.


Since that time I have followed many routines and to set them all down would be meaningless. At times I
specialized mainly on one part of the body, at other times trained for bulk, sometimes for power and often for
definition. Any single routine I followed would not necessarily be of benefit to any other person, for each was
devised expressly for me and the results I wanted at the time. Except before a contest, I still train three times a
week. Before a contest I train more often, sometimes several times a day, six days a week.
I always perform sets
of exercises and do not follow a strict exercise style, cheating in most of the movements. Without the set system
and the cheating exercises I am certain I never would have developed as fully as I have.

So in analyzing the various routines I have followed, this pattern is formed . . . first a beginner’s routine until
progress reaches a pause, then a more advanced routine which in my case was a split-set program, but which
experience has taught me would have been better had it been a regular set series program as we know it today.
Then, when there is a slow up in progress again, work for POWER to get a new drive. Then specialize for bulk,
definition or improvement of any lagging part. Plan your peak well in advance, working up to a peak in training
intensity shortly by working out more than three times a week, even several short and intense sessions per day.
Finally – BE RECEPTIVE!
Title: Re: Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside + Excersise
Post by: Rmj11 on December 29, 2023, 08:25:16 AM
Agree with the above highlighted points.

The old time bodybuilders like Clancy Ross, George Eiferman, and early Reg Park however did train for 2-3 hours pre-contest with either split or whole body routines.  The pace of these workouts is unknown.  Longer rest periods may have been used.

The belief was that these long, exhausting workouts were required to gain definition.  Cardio wasn't done then but these long sessions burned extra calories like cardio.

Split routines were done even in the 40s/50s but not exclusively like since the 60s.

See this article regarding Clancy Ross routines.
As you can see, Ross used a variety of different routines along the way.
Leading up to the 1945 Mr. America contest Ross trained six days per week with an upper/lower body split.

>

Routines I Have Used - Clarence Ross (1951)


I have the type of mind which some would call methodical. I like to think things out and to plan each move, and
I have always kept a careful record of my training programs as well as notes concerning what they have and
have not done for me. In addition, my active work as an instructor has kept constantly aware of the various
stages the lifter goes through, for in my gym I have members who are in all degrees of development, from rank
beginners to real stars. Therefore, I have never lost touch with my past, even while thinking of the future. The
exercise and developmental changes I went through are being reenacted before me by my pupils daily. I note
that in each there is a similarity to the changes I went through, from beginner to advanced champion. In
speaking to the various other advanced men I have found that they too went through stages which resembled my
own, once I refreshed their memories with certain questions.

Therefore, for the first time, I believe it is possible for an author to present to his readers certain facts connected
with the development of championship form which most of the stars went through, as brought out in the
routines I followed myself. With this information at hand, the interested bodybuilder can pick up at the point in
his own training which is approximately the same that my own was at a certain stage of my lifting career, and
then, if he follow the PRINCIPLES and utilizes some of the workout IDEAS set down for that time he should
be positive of making gains. In this way he will be able to eliminate programs which are too advanced for his
level, and also be able to skip over those which are too elementary to do him much good.
It must be remembered that since I began my active career in 1940, there have been definite advances made in
bodybuilding. Therefore, while I will give some of my actual programs, there will also be some comments
added concerning these, based on my present experience with more modern methods. In this way, while the
report of my training programs will be accurate, this report will also be brought up to current standards by my
comments.

In 1938, weighing just 135 pounds, I began my training. At that time, sets were not very well known, at least
not as we know them today, and the accepted training was the single set system in which a dozen of so basic exercises were followed,
each 10 reps, never performing more than one set of any exercise, and never returning back to any exercise once you had completed a set of it.

At the very start, having practically no knowledge of weight training, I thought like so many do, even to this
day, that the exercise session consisted mainly of lifting weights above the head while in a standing position.
For several months I did nothing but standing presses! I just lifted a weight to my shoulders, pushed it overhead,
lowered it to shoulders, pressed it again and so on. Press, press and press . . . that was all! I got a little stronger
in this particular exercise as a result, but didn’t have much muscle to show for my efforts after two months.
It was then that a training partner mapped out a more complete course for me, which was . . . one set, 10 reps
each of the following: squats, shrugs, standing press, bent-over rowing, bent arm lying laterals, barbell curl,
upright rowing, repetition cleans to the shoulder, press behind neck, pullover, lying floor press and deadlift.
I trained three times a week and spent about 11⁄2 years on this routine, or a very similar one, changing one
exercise or so once in a while. In addition, I performed all exercises very stiffly and in rigid form which was the
generally advised procedure at that time. I gained 30 pounds in that year and a half. Then I grew discouraged
with my training for I had reached a sticking point, and gave up exercise for two years.

In looking back at this first routine I feel that for the beginner, with certain corrections such as grouping the
exercises a bit differently, it was basically a good one. In fact it is quite similar to the ones given to the beginner
in many systems of lifting. However, it was too limited. At first I made some nice gains, but then with no way
to progress other than to add more weight to the various exercises I grew bored with the routine. It failed to
continue to stimulate me and since there seemed to be no change possible to help me, I just gave up. Had I
known about sets at that time, I would probably never have taken that long layoff. So by sticking to a beginner’s
routine for too long I wasted about three years which could have been used to good advantage. This is one
lesson every lifter can learn well – a routine must be changed from time to time to make it more progressive and
interesting to avoid the sticking point in training and to keep enthusiasm going strong.

In 1942 I went into the service, weighing 155 pounds, having lost 10 pounds after giving up training. It was
while in the service that I met my now good friend Leo Stern and recaptured my interest in the weights. The
regular set system was still not well known at that time, but Leo mapped out a program which I will refer to as a
split-set program. In it, there were 30 or 35 exercises and while more than one set of each exercise was not
usually done one right after the other, a number of the exercises appeared more than once in the routine. This
sample program will illustrate this: upright row, incline press, lateral raise, alternate curl and press with
dumbbells, pullover and floor press, rowing motion, dumbbell curl, dip, upright row, incline press, lateral raise,
dumbbell curl, rowing motion, pullover and press, alternate curl and press with dumbbells, dips, upright row,
incline press, lateral raise, barbell curl, pullover and press, rowing motion, dip, sit-up, side bend, and then three
sets of squats and two sets of leg raises.

As can be seen from the above routine, most of the exercises appeared more than once at various points in the
program, but only in the squats and leg presses were a true set system practiced. The others were split up.
This method of training was popular at that time and was the forerunner of the regular set system as we know it
today. It also combined a certain amount of flushing muscle principle as well as even a bit of the super set
method. In addition, I relaxed my training style to some extent and included a form of moderate cheating in the
movements.

I realized big gains in bulk, endurance and power from this program. Looking back that the program now I feel
that better results would have been made if I had advanced right into a real set series as we now practice it. This
split-set type of routine does not give the complete flushness of a regular set series, but it was such an
improvement over anything I had done in the past that I made great gains. I continued to train three times a
week as before . . .
more frequent training was considered by most authorities at that time as being harmful,though rumors were
beginning to get around about some of the stars who did more and who reported good results.


Now I went into the next advancement in my program. I noticed that my legs needed more work so I decided to
specialize on them. While I did not train more than three days a week, in studying my own reactions to heavy
leg work, I came to the conclusion that it would be necessary for me to split up my training and devote an
exercise session entirely to them, with separate sessions for my upper body. I just didn’t have the energy to do it
all in one workout. So on my three weekly workout days I performed all my upper-body work in the morning,
and then this same day in the afternoon I did my squats and leg presses as well as calf raises. Basically, the
exercises remained the same as listed above, with the exception that I did my leg work during a separate session
devoted entirely to them. This plan is of course impractical for those who do not have the free time I was
fortunate enough to have then, and based on my present experience I will say that it will work nearly as well for
them if they do their leg work first in the training session when their energy is highest, and then follow this with
their other exercises. This is a plan I follow to this day, for except before a contest I still train only three times a
week, though my workouts are longer and harder than ever before.

At this time I once again hit a sort of sticking point in my training. I had made such great advances that there
was now no question in my mind about continuing my training, but I knew that I needed a change. I felt as
though I needed more power . . . that my strength had to be drastically increased so that I could extend myself
more in future training. I reduced my repetitions in the exercises, used heavier weights and cut down the
number of exercises in my program. I also included some weightlifting movements, such as heavy standing
presses and repetition snatches and clean & jerks. The lifting movements were first on the program, and several
sets were done of each. The balance of the routine had squats, shrugs, deadlifts, curls, pullover, bench press and
so on. Not too many exercises and still not performed in regular set series style, though the same exercises did
appear several times in the workout.

On this program I did indeed gain a lot of power and looked better. My enthusiasm was at a real high. Once
again, the change did me good, and another training approach – Power Training – had given me another step
forward.

It was then that a number of us on the coast, who were training together with similar methods, began to think
about the 1945 Mr. America title.
We planned for this well in advance . . . in fact, six months in ahead. The first
three months I spent on a semi-specialized program. I trained the entire body, but paid special attention to one
part, such as the arms, for several weeks, concentrating on these mainly, and filling in with other all around
exercises. I still practiced the split-set program, with most of the exercises being performed several times at
different points in the program. Every few weeks I specialized on another part until I hit all major body groups
with specialized movements. I also used some cables and other pieces of apparatus during this time which
added to my muscularity and general improvement.

I then made a change and went on a bulk course. I needed more weight. The way we trained for bulk in those
days was to sort of “fatten” up. This was done by following a limited program, one set each of the following:
standing press, barbell curl, upright row, bench press, incline bench press, deadlift, squat, leg press and calf
raise. Each exercise was done for 10 reps and only for one set. In addition I drank a lot of milk, took life easy
and gained weight.

It was then when personal temperament and physical type manifested itself to me. To this day I still find that a
routine similar to the one above gives me more bulk, though today at my more advanced level I perform three
sets of each exercise. However, I know that other advanced men find that lower reps suit them better, so all that
we can learn from the above is that a curtailed routine, one in which less than the normal amount of exercises
are performed is good for bulk. THE REPS AND SETS WILL DEPEND A LOT UPON THE INDIVIDUAL. It
is important that you realize this.Then, after the above routine for a month, I went into a definition program.
In doing this I followed the same exercises, but increased the repetitions to 15 or 20 and shortened my rest breaks
between exercises. Here too,such a plan has since always suited me best. But certain other lifters have found a different plan as being best
for them when seeking definition, such as performing a greater number of exercises, or even using very heavy
weights in their limit lifts. So the lesson to be learned from this is that FOR MORE DEFINITION YOU MUST
WORK HARDER . . . either more reps, more exercises or heavier lifts . . . limit lifts.
Exactly how you apply
this principle depends upon YOUR REACTION FROM PERSONAL TESTS, but the theory will always work
when used.

The last month before the contest I trained every day, pumping up every muscle in my body to the limit. I split
up the program, performing all upper body training one day and lower body the next. A large variety of
movements were followed, and my exact routine would serve no purpose other than to bring out that fact.
I used
weighted boots, headstrap, wrist roller, kettlebells and every exercise and apparatus known! This was the most
advanced short-term pre-contest training known at that time
, though today certain stars train three times a day
before a contest, devoting a training session to one major part.

After the (1945) Mr. America contest, which I am proud to have won, I went into a regular set series program for the
first time, performing this routine three times a week, 3 sets, 10 reps each exercise: squat, calf raise, bench
press, bent over rowing, upright rowing, barbell curl, reverse curl, triceps curl and sit-up.


Since that time I have followed many routines and to set them all down would be meaningless. At times I
specialized mainly on one part of the body, at other times trained for bulk, sometimes for power and often for
definition. Any single routine I followed would not necessarily be of benefit to any other person, for each was
devised expressly for me and the results I wanted at the time. Except before a contest, I still train three times a
week. Before a contest I train more often, sometimes several times a day, six days a week.
I always perform sets
of exercises and do not follow a strict exercise style, cheating in most of the movements. Without the set system
and the cheating exercises I am certain I never would have developed as fully as I have.

So in analyzing the various routines I have followed, this pattern is formed . . . first a beginner’s routine until
progress reaches a pause, then a more advanced routine which in my case was a split-set program, but which
experience has taught me would have been better had it been a regular set series program as we know it today.
Then, when there is a slow up in progress again, work for POWER to get a new drive. Then specialize for bulk,
definition or improvement of any lagging part. Plan your peak well in advance, working up to a peak in training
intensity shortly by working out more than three times a week, even several short and intense sessions per day.
Finally – BE RECEPTIVE!


All high volume.
Title: Re: Training protocols: HIT/HST/Max-OT/DC/GVT/Volume links inside + Excersise
Post by: Rmj11 on December 30, 2023, 11:26:38 PM
From Oldhasbeen1

"Power cleans 3 x 3 then 1 x 1

Squats 2 x 8 then 1 x 1
Lunges 2 x 8

Pull ups 2 x max
Seated cable row 2 x 12

Bench press 2 x 8
dips 2 x 8

military press 2 x 8
Dumbbell delt laterals 2 x 10

Tricep pulley push downs 2 x 10
Barbell curls 2 x 10

Standing calf raise 2 x 15

Weighted back hyper extensions 2 x 15

Then complete the workout with some ab and neck work.

It should take you an 75 minutes to 90 minutes.  If you find it easy you weren't using what for you is heavy weights."

It's not about training heavy. It's about working the muscles hard from different angles to attain maximum results. What you're promoting is weight lifting, not bodybuilding. No wonder you always burn out every 2 weeks and have to back off. Not only that but I see in your blog you also get injured all the time. You haven't really got a clue.

The routine above will not build a decent physique. You may get stronger but that's because you're getting better at lifting a weight in a certain movement. Not because you're building maximum muscle mass. A bigger muscle is a stronger muscle. To do that the muscle has to get bigger first in order to get stronger. Not the other way round. 4 sets a bodypart is just too low to make any damage to the fibres for growth to occur.

By the way, real athletes train with high volume and high frequency. 😉