Do you have mixed feelings about steroids ( drugs) in bodybuilding?

[Howard]

As most of you know I have some rather mixed feelings on the issue of steroids and related drugs  used in bodybuilding. On the pure/natural side of the debate you have the; ALL steroid use is bad, unhealthy and cheating. On the extreme , hardcore side you have the ; ya goota do a lot of juice to build a big freaky body and natural sucks belief.
How about some of the ideas that John Ramano ( and others) bring up in the film "Bigger, Stronger, Faster".  Why does the steroid issue have to be an all bad or all good issue?
Why is a moderate, sensible position based on basic sense and science so hard to sell?Here is my basic postion and beliefs on the drug issue.

1. Sensible, moderate steroid use is NOT risky or a major health risk. ( Where are the dead bodies?)

2. Personal steroid use should NOT be a crime. I use prescribed Androgel and it is legal and even covered by my health ins. It keeps my testosterone levels in the ideal which is GOOD for my health. Why should anyone be convicted for simply doing what I do on legal terms.

3. A policy of open , sensible and honest use of steroids as a part of the training regime for eilte /pro athletes ( bodybuilders) should be started .

4. The drugs should be used to help support the training bodybuilder, NOT be used to extremes that alter the basic line  and symmetry of  the physique. Yes, an elite bodybuilder can be "too big" and should be marked down for that.

5. A bodybuilder with good genetics can develop a great physique WITHOUT drugs. Drugs simply enhance what is already there and make it bigger .Moderate, sensible steroid use can help a bodybuilder peak for a show and still remain healthy. I see no reason why the sport needs to be 100% drug free, when sensible drug use is possible.

6. The legal and political reality is at odds with good sense and solid science on the steroid issue.
The media has lumped steroids in with supplements like creatine?wtf?
Drinking booze has done more damage to society than steroids ever will. But, since it is legal , drinking is hardly news in the media. Has anyone ever killed anyone driving a car from a shot of decca or Winnie V? No! Can't say the same about the "legal shots" of booze can we
I fear the a real debate is unlikely to happen at this point due to the media hype and ignoracne on this issue. The bodybuilding world is defensive and doesn't want any public scrutiny on steroids while congress wants to go on witchhunts.

I wish that an honest, open dialogue could occur and a sensible, honest policy be put in place.
I don't think our pro bodybuilders whould be trated like criminals for pushing the envelope. But, I also don't think extreme use and freak physiques should be the ideal and win the $$.

Thanks for listening, Howard

[MONSTER_TRICEPS]

STOP

[Brutal_1]

Howie,

I wish you would just focus this posting gusto on the "gayer than" thread, you'd be a great asset! 

[Geo]

Do you have mixed feelings about steroids ( drugs) in bodybuilding?

I'd have to actually give a shit about bodybuilding in general before I could have mixed feeling about it



thanks for listening

[Sharma]

without steroids the bodys are shit

[Petrucci]

not flaming man, but well..you always bring the obvious things...everyone knows that....its like you are reinventing the wheel...

people are going to use steroids, with Pro bodybuilding or without...with you liking or not....

some guys like to kiss other man...some people like to kill other people....and some of them like to take 'medicines' to make their physiques bigger than they naturally would get...oh my, its the end of the world...

good that you have a brain and think about things, but lets spend our times in things that ADD something...like the 'gayer than' thread or maybe adding to the thread 'hottest college chicks'..

[Fourslot40]

Only a matter of time before the government goes after pro bodybuilding and try to have it shut down or cleaned up.  They got baseball, got football, got WWE, going to go after horse racing and sooner or later pro bodybuilding.  

[Brutal_1]

good that you have a brain and think about things, but lets spend our times in things that ADD something...like the 'gayer than' thread or maybe adding to the thread 'hottest college chicks'..

lol 

[steveeray]

You can't change the disign Howard, I'm sorry.
Just like the old days.
Im not asking people to change
I do agree it needs to get better
And the only way to do that is
Free health care as well as steroids to use all.
Do a long term study with no BS.

[Howard]

I'd have to actually give a shit about bodybuilding in general before I could have mixed feeling about it



thanks for listening

I care about the sport and have been a bodybuilder for over 30 yrs. If you don't care about it, why do you frequent a BODYBUILDING board. I am offering my thoughts on why sensible steroid use is a possible answer.
The typical reply of these kind of serious posts is:
1. You suck, go away, STFU , etc  
If you really hate me or don't care, why did you bother to open the thread  and then take the time to post a lame personal attack.  

2. They fail to attack the issue in the thread. For example:
Thread - Are benches good for chest devlopment?
nonesense reply - (a) anyone who doesn't bench is queer
   (b) I prefer squats man and think roids are great - (wtf? does this have to do with benching?)
3. It is ok to DISGREE with my ideas or any others here. BUT, it adds nada to the debate or issue to just post some lame , personal insult. Most of the lame insults are childish, not very clever or funny and leabe me clueless as to the motiavtion for doing it.
* A funny, clever , itty post is different, but sadly most lame insults are either funny or clever.
Howard

[Howard]

not flaming man, but well..you always bring the obvious things...everyone knows that....its like you are reinventing the wheel...

people are going to use steroids, with Pro bodybuilding or without...with you liking or not....

some guys like to kiss other man...some people like to kill other people....and some of them like to take 'medicines' to make their physiques bigger than they naturally would get...oh my, its the end of the world...

good that you have a brain and think about things, but lets spend our times in things that ADD something...like the 'gayer than' thread or maybe adding to the thread 'hottest college chicks'..

Thanks for the thoughtful reply, but I must assume you didn't read the actual thread.
I agree with you that bodybuilders should use drugs. It is the extreme , crazy use that I am against.

* Question- Why is a middle of the road sensible view on steroids , near impossible to get across?

[Howard]

You can't change the disign Howard, I'm sorry.
Just like the old days.
Im not asking people to change
I do agree it needs to get better
And the only way to do that is
Free health care as well as steroids to use all.
Do a long term study with no BS.

I think dialogue based on truth and good sense are the only way to make sensible policy in bodybuilding.
The movie Bigger, Faster, Stronger is a great start, but I fear some may be called in for a witchhunt just  for being honest.

[MB_722]

No.

[Howard]

No.

Now what? Please feeel free to elaborate on this answer. Thanks

[Faust]

Alright, i didn't bother to read the first post completely, but i'll bite.

* Question- Why is a middle of the road sensible view on steroids , near impossible to get across?

Is it really?
Isn't that what they do in HRT and anti-aging clinics?
And it's even perfectly legal.

But most people like see things black and white. People see guys like Dave Jacobs and quickly make up their mind. So after that, try telling a soccer mom that it's not such a big deal if her 20 yo son is using a little testosteron to get on the football team.

[Howard]

Alright, i didn't bother to read the first post completely, but i'll bite.Is it really?
Isn't that what they do in HRT and anti-aging clinics?
And it's even perfectly legal.

But most people like see things black and white. People see guys like Dave Jacobs and quickly make up their mind. So after that, try telling a soccer mom that it's not such a big deal if her 20 yo son is using a little testosteron to get on the football team.

Good pt, but how come the soccer MOM can't tell the differnce between HRT , sensible drug use ( her son ) and some wacko shooting himself and woman.?

[Fourslot40]

Thanks for the thoughtful reply, but I must assume you didn't read the actual thread.
I agree with you that bodybuilders should use drugs. It is the extreme , crazy use that I am against.

* Question- Why is a middle of the road sensible view on steroids , near impossible to get across?

Saying steroids should be used but not abused is like saying a little crack here and there is ok.  Addiction is harsh.  There is only one true answer and nobody wants to hear it, instead just try and fool themselves in justifying it.  A drug is a drug is a drug.  It's illegal per our government so the only policy for bodybuilding is one that involves no illegal drugs and vigorous testing.  There you go... end of thread.

[Howard]

Saying steroids should be used but not abused is like saying a little crack here and there is ok.  Addiction is harsh.  There is only one true answer and nobody wants to hear it, instead just try and fool themselves in justifying it.  A drug is a drug is a drug.  It's illegal per our government so the only policy for bodybuilding is one that involves no illegal drugs and vigorous testing.  There you go... end of thread.

Thanks for putting up an intelligent, well written counter point on this issue.
I think it is the extremes that I have an issue with ,while you view steroids as all bad.
For example crack is proven to be addictive from the 1st use, while steroids and are not easlity addictive nor do they cause the same problem issues as coke, booze and ciggs.
Proper use of drugs is a major part of health care in the medical field.

[Faust]

Good pt, but how come the soccer MOM can't tell the differnce between HRT , sensible drug use ( her son ) and some wacko shooting himself and woman.?

I think because people in general are not that smart. They usually don't know much about the subject. The little they know, they pick up some stuff here and there from the media, but they usually don't bother doing research, or reading long dissertations on difficult subjects. To simplify it people tend to group things togheter.

They hear some bad stuff about drugs. -> all drugs are bad
They hear some bad stuff about roids. -> all steroids are bad
They hear bad shit about a minority. -> that certain minority is bad

[Fourslot40]

Howard... I disagree.  Steroids are quite addictive.  In my opinion, it's as addictive as any other substance and thinking otherwise is trying to fool yourself into justifying it.  

[musclehedz]

Howard... I disagree.  Steroids are quite addictive.  In my opinion, it's as addictive as any other substance and thinking otherwise is trying to fool yourself into justifying it.  

Not physically addictive. However a nice cycle is sweet. Especially because i don't experience any nasty side-effects. Lucky me. 

[PANDAEMONIUM]

Hey, I've got a great idea.

Let's dig up a horse we've beaten to death at least fifty times.  Then let's lay him out on the ground and bludgeon him with a baseball bat a few hundred more times.

 

[Fourslot40]

Hey, I've got a great idea.

Let's dig up a horse we've beaten to death at least fifty times.  Then let's lay him out on the ground and bludgeon him with a baseball bat a few hundred more times.

 

I've heard that idea before.  There's this thing called America... and in America, you can voice an opinion or express a concern for free.  The other good thing about America, is that you are actually free to walk away or disregard these opinions.  Take into consideration that there are many new getbiggers that might not want to use the search feature... lighten up.  You're almost at 5000 posts so keep up the good work. 

[Bluto]

i have mixed feelings about letting you post

[Rearden Metal]

STFU and train, Howie.