Police Abuse of Uber Driver in NY

[Donny]

I'm under the impression it is from Department to Department. We have basic TCOLE requirements for Texas, but anything over that is up to the departments.

so that basically says there is no one standard. rules of engagement.

[Agnostic007]

so that basically says there is no one standard. rules of engagement.

Each state will likely have different standards. This doesn't mean they are bad, most standards are designed to follow state law as well as federal law. Supreme court case law is incorporated into training. For example, you can't shoot someone just for running away from you unless there are specific and articulable reasons. Those are outlined. So all states would teach that. So the rules of engagement would be similar.. but the trainining, the hours spend, the amount of ammunition available, quality of instructors, the facitilty itself ( is it just stand up targets, or electronically controlled, or even a fake street with pop ups). This is usually limited by the funds the city has to pay for it. SO yes, you should be able to go state to state, and the rules for shooting someone will be about if not exactly the same.. I am speaking on the amount of training varying

[Agnostic007]

I originally read your question as shooting range type differences, not policy on when and when not to shoot.

[Donny]

Each state will likely have different standards. This doesn't mean they are bad, most standards are designed to follow state law as well as federal law. Supreme court case law is incorporated into training. For example, you can't shoot someone just for running away from you unless there are specific and articulable reasons. Those are outlined. So all states would teach that. So the rules of engagement would be similar.. but the trainining, the hours spend, the amount of ammunition available, quality of instructors, the facitilty itself ( is it just stand up targets, or electronically controlled, or even a fake street with pop ups). This is usually limited by the funds the city has to pay for it. SO yes, you should be able to go state to state, and the rules for shooting someone will be about if not exactly the same.. I am speaking on the amount of training varying

so there is no real standard and that was my question. Very confusing and no wonder so many shootings from inexperienced cops.

[SF1900]

Question for you Agnostic:

You and your partner arrive on a scene. Your partner uses excessive force against a civilian. You were the only witness. You get questioned. Partner is denying excessive force though you saw it happen. Whose side do you take? Your partners side or the civilians side?

[rudylrichards]

This Detective had 12 complaints of disrespect & abuse. Taxi drivers union calling for him to be fired.
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2015/04/04/federation-of-taxi-drivers-calls-for-firing-of-detective-in-confrontation-with-uber-driver/

[SF1900]

This Detective had 12 complaints of disrespect & abuse. Taxi drivers union calling for him to be fired.
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2015/04/04/federation-of-taxi-drivers-calls-for-firing-of-detective-in-confrontation-with-uber-driver/

This goes to show one thing: Cops have other cops back. Any other job, he would have been fired with 12 complaints. Cops covering for cops.

[che]

Another one.

[Slapper]

Cherry wasn't really that apologetic when interviewed by The media. His whole schtick was about letting the public know that his rampage was preceded by the taxi driver honking at him and gesturing with his arms. Which in cop talk means you must be hiding something.

[Disgusted]

12 complaints and hundreds that weren't reported. Fire the guy.

[rudylrichards]

Cherry wasn't really that apologetic when interviewed by The media. His whole schtick was about letting the public know that his rampage was preceded by the taxi driver honking at him and gesturing with his arms. Which in cop talk means you must be hiding something.

the apology made him look worse. Seemed like an entitled arrogant prick who couldn't even humble himself infront of the camera for a few minutes to make it seem like he was sincere.  One of the most reluctant apologies I've ever seen. End of the day nothing will happen, he'll just be more aware of cell phones next time.

[rudylrichards]

12 complaints and hundreds that weren't reported. Fire the guy.

I agree but don't think it's enough to fire him. The union is very strong with some pretty good lawyers. The other 12 complaints will probably come down to his word against someone's else's. This is the only case where you have proof.

[Agnostic007]

so there is no real standard and that was my question. Very confusing and no wonder so many shootings from inexperienced cops.

You are trying very hard not to comprehend what I am writing so you can post your preconcieved conclusion...in my opinion.

[Agnostic007]

This goes to show one thing: Cops have other cops back. Any other job, he would have been fired with 12 complaints. Cops covering for cops.

Complaints in and of itself can be misleading. I'll explain. The very nature of policing, you often times get complained on, even when you do everything right. There have been recent examples of people who complained on police, stating they were insulted for being black, and when the video was released, it showed a very professional cop. The black preacher on his way to a cleaners is one example that comes to mind. Another can be the nature of the position itself. For example, we have a walking beat unit that works specifically down town Austin bar district. They handled several fights a night and constantly dealing with intoxicated partying folks. Their use of force and their complaints are proportionately much higher than an officer working the Northwest part of the city. If you were to look at a walking beat officers annual use of force report you would conclude this officer is out of control. But the reality is, the officer is professional and each incident is reviewed to make sure it was within policy and necessary.

I suspect this officer has a problem. Obviously his behavior during that stop was unprofessional. And when comparted side by side to officers in similar positions he may have a very high number of complaints. But I'm just saying, the complaints themselves should not be a reason to conclude an officer is out of control in every situation. Anyone can complain, wheteher it is valid or not. What were the outcomes of the comploaints.

And since I already know the accusation will be forthcoming that I defend all cops.. I will repeat.. this cop may be off the chain and need to be fired because he can't control his anger. If the facts show that then show him the door. I'm merely pointing out complaints themselves are just one of the indicators and need to be looked at before determining it is conclusive evidence.   

[SF1900]

Complaints in and of itself can be misleading. I'll explain. The very nature of policing, you often times get complained on, even when you do everything right. There have been recent examples of people who complained on police, stating they were insulted for being black, and when the video was released, it showed a very professional cop. The black preacher on his way to a cleaners is one example that comes to mind. Another can be the nature of the position itself. For example, we have a walking beat unit that works specifically down town Austin bar district. They handled several fights a night and constantly dealing with intoxicated partying folks. Their use of force and their complaints are proportionately much higher than an officer working the Northwest part of the city. If you were to look at a walking beat officers annual use of force report you would conclude this officer is out of control. But the reality is, the officer is professional and each incident is reviewed to make sure it was within policy and necessary.

I suspect this officer has a problem. Obviously his behavior during that stop was unprofessional. And when comparted side by side to officers in similar positions he may have a very high number of complaints. But I'm just saying, the complaints themselves should not be a reason to conclude an officer is out of control in every situation. Anyone can complain, wheteher it is valid or not. What were the outcomes of the comploaints.

And since I already know the accusation will be forthcoming that I defend all cops.. I will repeat.. this cop may be off the chain and need to be fired because he can't control his anger. If the facts show that then show him the door. I'm merely pointing out complaints themselves are just one of the indicators and need to be looked at before determining it is conclusive evidence.  

Give me a fucking break. 12 complaints!! Eventually when enough people complain against ONE person, you start to realize where the problem is. Either all those 12 people are wrong and this cop is right, or vice versa. What are the chances that all 12 people are making up stories, especially people who probably do not know each other. Taken those 12 complain, plus this current incidence, this cop should be canned. All the evidence is there. Who is the common denominator here? THE ONE COP!! Again, in any other job, the person who have been fired. But nope, not police officers.

Again, a cop sticking up for another cop without thinking logical.

[Agnostic007]

Question for you Agnostic:

You and your partner arrive on a scene. Your partner uses excessive force against a civilian. You were the only witness. You get questioned. Partner is denying excessive force though you saw it happen. Whose side do you take? Your partners side or the civilians side?

SF,

Easy one for me. It's not about taking sides, it's about reporting what happened. Accurately. Back in 96 this happened. I responded to a call of a wreck in an apartment complex. IT was obvious the occupants of the car who was hit from the rear where thinking insurance money because they were obviously faking neck injury wanting an ambulance ride. The impact was at about 5mph with little damage and their antics were so obvious it was almost comical. My partner was getting pissed because they were creating a ton of paperwork for us for no reason other than being greedy. The actual owner of that car shows up. He was pissed because he had just spent 2K getting a cool paint job on his car and now it's damaged. I talked to him and he cooled down and we started talking about his car, and having a good conversation. My partner is still dealing with the "actors" no in neck braces and laughing. He was holding a metal clip board and he flings it onto the hood of the guys car. The guy gets pissed.. I get pissed.. I'm like " Come On, don't scratch the guys paint" He comes over and the cop and the car owner start exhanging heated words. the car owner is holding a cell phone and points his hand with the cell phone in my partners face as he is yelling. My partner slaps his hand out of his face. I pull the guy back from my partner and calm him down again. After a few minuts everything is back to normal.. THe guy tells me he is going to file a complaint on my patner. I tell him that is a good idea and I explain how to go about it. He's reluctant because he figures nothing would happen to it but I tell him I saw what happened and I wil tell the truth. So he gets our information. Later, I tell my partner the guy is going to file a complaint because he feels he was treated poorly and I tell my partner he shouldn't have thrown the clip board. He then tells me he is going to file assault on a Police Officer on the guy for his part. He actually goes back to the office to start writting up the warrant request.I track him down and tell him what he is about to do will end his career. IF he goes through with it I will contradict him and he can't win. THe facts are, IF the guy had actually assaulted him he should have been arrested on schene. He wasnt. So how would he explain that. He was pissed but he dropped the idea. The guy complains as promised. I give my statement and the officer got 10 days suspension for his part.

So it is an easy answer, I would tell the truth. It's not a matter of sides.   
       

[Agnostic007]

Give me a fucking break. 12 complaints!! Eventually when enough people complain against ONE person, you start to realize where the problem is. Either all those 12 people are wrong and this cop is right, or vice versa. What are the chances that all 12 people are making up stories, especially people who probably do not know each other. Who is the common denominator here? THE ONE COP!!

Again, a cop sticking up for another cop without thinking logical.

I think it is more, I understand what happens, you don't. You are willing to conclude based on number of complaints. My experience tells me to review the complaints individually to see if there is merit to them, and to compare the number of complaints to officers in similar job positions. If it confirms that he is  a habitual temper tantrum cop, then I'll be happy to show him the door myself.

[SF1900]

I think it is more, I understand what happens, you don't. You are willing to conclude based on number of complaints. My experience tells me to review the complaints individually to see if there is merit to them, and to compare the number of complaints to officers in similar job positions. If it confirms that he is  a habitual temper tantrum cop, then I'll be happy to show him the door myself.

haha, whatever you say.

Either way, the cop should be fired just based on this one incidence that was caught on camera. In any other job, the person would be fired.  If I made a racist comment in my field, Id be canned ASAP!! Why is this cop given another chance, despite his blatant racism? If I screamed at someone like that in my job, Id be canned. Why isn't this cop canned? Why is he still doing desk duty? The evidence is all caught on tape!! Again, pigs being pigs and sticking up for each other.

So, please tell me, why in most other jobs someone would be fired if evidence like that is caught on camera? Yet, this pig is still receiving a paycheck. I can't wait to hear your excuse.

[Agnostic007]

haha, whatever you say.

Either way, the cop should be fired just based on this one incidence that was caught on camera. In any other job, the person would be fired.  If I made a racist comment in my field, Id be canned ASAP!! Why is this cop given another chance, despite his blatant racism? If I screamed at someone like that in my job, Id be canned. Why isn't this cop canned? Why is he still doing desk duty? The evidence is all caught on tape!! Again, pigs being pigs and sticking up for each other.

So, please tell me, why in most other jobs someone would be fired if evidence like that is caught on camera? Yet, this pig is still receiving a paycheck. I can't wait to hear your excuse.

I missed the racist comment you refer to. If a cop makes a racist comment he should be canned .. 

[SF1900]

I missed the racist comment you refer to. If a cop makes a racist comment he should be canned ..  

He made a comment about the guy not speaking English, as you can tell the guy was from another country who just came to America two years ago. He told the cop this.

Even so, that level of anger should be AUTOMATIC grounds for dismissal. As I stated, in most other jobs, the person would be fired for screaming at someone like that. But nope, not cops, pigs protecting other pigs.

Furthermore, the cop has 12 complaints against him. These were obviously passed complaints. Why were they not already investigated? Who is pushing these complaints to the side so this pig can keep his job, huh? Eventually, with 12 complaints, you would think he would have ALREADY been investigated.

Again, this absolutely wreaks of pigs being typical pigs and sticking up for each other. CORRUPTION!

Most cops are brainwashed and cannot think for themselves. Its a sick cult.

[Wiggs]

He made a comment about the guy not speaking English, as you can tell the guy was from another country who just came to America two years ago. He told the cop this.

Even so, that level of anger should be AUTOMATIC grounds for dismissal. As I stated, in most other jobs, the person would be fired for screaming at someone like that. But nope, not cops, pigs protecting other pigs.

Furthermore, the cop has 12 complaints against him. These were obviously passed complaints. Why were they not already investigated? Who is pushing these complaints to the side so this pig can keep his job, huh? Eventually, with 12 complaints, you would think he would have ALREADY been investigated.

Again, this absolutely wreaks of pigs being typical pigs and sticking up for each other. CORRUPTION!

Most cops are brainwashed and cannot think for themselves. Its a sick cult.

Great post

[SF1900]

Great post

Thank you, Wiggs.

[blacken700]

pigs  when you talk like this you take all credibility from your argument

[SF1900]

pigs  when you talk like this you take all credibility from your argument

Fine, just replace the word "pig" with "cop."

Either way, my points still stand on their own merit, independent of the term I use.

Hope this helps.

[Parker]

I wonder if this is the good press that Über needs? I don't know if any of you know, but Über has been having the same,  if not as bad, press as the cops have been getting.