Author Topic: Congressional Record - How Saddam Happened  (Read 5559 times)

Dos Equis

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Re: Congressional Record - How Saddam Happened
« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2007, 01:41:54 PM »
mighty,

the irony is that you're calling me dumb.  Where are you and where I am today?

Sounds like John Kerry comments.  Are you saying he is dumb because he's in the military and/or at war? 

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Re: Congressional Record - How Saddam Happened
« Reply #26 on: February 06, 2007, 01:46:47 PM »
Nope.  I'm asking him to evaluate where he is and where I am today.

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Re: Congressional Record - How Saddam Happened
« Reply #27 on: February 06, 2007, 01:48:48 PM »
Sounds like John Kerry comments.  Are you saying he is dumb because he's in the military and/or at war? 

Kinda sad that you would infer that though.  I hope you don't have that opinion.  Our military is composed of the finest and bravest.  They just don't always know much about politics they aren't spoonfed by the White House.

Dos Equis

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Re: Congressional Record - How Saddam Happened
« Reply #28 on: February 06, 2007, 02:16:58 PM »
Kinda sad that you would infer that though.  I hope you don't have that opinion.  Our military is composed of the finest and bravest.  They just don't always know much about politics they aren't spoonfed by the White House.

Reasonable assumption on my part.  Your comments clearly sounded like a slap in the face to a man in the military who is at war.  But that's why I asked for a clarification. 

BRUCE

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Re: Congressional Record - How Saddam Happened
« Reply #29 on: February 06, 2007, 02:24:30 PM »
SO you don't deny the following happened:

"A letter written in 1995 by former CDC Director David Satcher to former Senator Donald W. Riegle, Jr., points out that the U.S. Government provided nearly two dozen viral and bacterial samples to Iraqi scientists in 1985--samples that included the plague, botulism, and anthrax, among other deadly diseases. According to the letter from Dr. Satcher to former Senator Donald Riegle, many of the materials were hand carried by an Iraqi scientist to Iraq after he had spent 3 months training in the CDC laboratory. "

You just question the *intent* of the US in giving these diseases to Saddam?

By 1985, he had already committed some serious atrocities.  And they were the first choice of the US govt, to deliver these deadly strains?

Jeez, kinda naive of us.  We could have given them to any of the 300 nations on earth.   We chose to trust diseases to a murdereour dictator at war.

Do you believe this, Bruce?

What in the world was Reagan's admin doing giving ANY KIND OF CHEMICAL WEAPON to saddam?

Don't feed us the bullshit about "but... medical reasons!" or "We don't know it was the same gas that killed thousands".

What the hell was Reagan/Rumsfeld doing giving any chem weapons to saddam?  Hell, he was at war with Iran.  And the day he entered office, he had publicly executed hudreds of potential enemies on national TV to make his point that dissension would not be tolerated.

Reagan gave him WMD anyway.  Can anyone please defend this action?  thanks!


Your foolishness precedes you.  Where in this document does it prove the US armed Saddam with chemical weapons?  Where is the mustard gas you allege?

As for the biological agents, let's revisit what I have posted before on this issue:

The truth to this popular lie? As a US Senate inquiry found, America's Centers for Disease Control and the non-profit American Type Culture Collection did send Iraq biological materials in the 1980s, thinking they would be used there as they were in other countries - to develop treatments for animal and human diseases.

These were sent not to "military laboratories", but mostly to universities and health officials, who secretly passed on some to scientists working on Iraq's WMD. You know, on the weapons this same film also claims "never" existed.


Have you read this yet, Rob?  Do you understand that concept?  The Americans were proven to have acted responsibly, and to some extent, naively.  Keep in mind Saddam stole these biological agents from the scientist they were given to (with the intention of actually saving lives).  This is not the same as deliberately arming a madman to fight Iranians, or indeed, murder his own people.

You have absolutely no proof the US gave Saddam mustard gas, or for that matter, any other chemical weapon nor WMD.  This, as in Ribonucleic's case, has been your argument from day one.

I implore others reading this to also research The UN's and The Stockholm International Peace Research Institute's findings on this matter.

I find it intriguing we now have Rob admitting Saddam had WMD, and yet rejects this as a purpose for invading Iraq in the first place.  I assume, Rob, you have some evidence suggesting you knew beforehand (unlike the rest of the world) that this was the case.

Also laughable is that we now find you going for the proverbial jugular with Saddam now, labelling him (correctly, I might add, even if spelled wrong) as a 'murdereour (sic) dictator'.  All, it seems, it takes for you to change your mind on a person like Saddam (who you have written off here before as someone who shouldn't be pursued by the US) is how you can skew the facts to make the US seem evil.
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Re: Congressional Record - How Saddam Happened
« Reply #30 on: February 06, 2007, 03:01:41 PM »
sadaam had WMD in the 1980s.
He didn't have them in 2002.

Was Reagan irresponsible - or evil - in believing that saddam wouldn't visit IRAQI universities and get ahold of WMD we delivered to them for research?

Seriously, think about that.  Saddam is an evil dude.  He killed many and was at war.  We delivered strains of deadly diseases and other weaponizable agents to his universities.

Did no one at the Reagan white house say "um, ya think saddam might use any of these very deadly things?  Or does he just value eduation too much"?

It's either facilitation to commit mass murder with WMD, or incredible irresponsibility.

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Re: Congressional Record - How Saddam Happened
« Reply #31 on: February 06, 2007, 03:03:32 PM »
It's either facilitation to commit mass murder with WMD, or incredible irresponsibility.

Given his training and material support for the Salvadoran death squads, my vote is for "facilitation to commit mass murder".

BRUCE

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Re: Congressional Record - How Saddam Happened
« Reply #32 on: February 06, 2007, 03:12:25 PM »
sadaam had WMD in the 1980s.
He didn't have them in 2002.

Was Reagan irresponsible - or evil - in believing that saddam wouldn't visit IRAQI universities and get ahold of WMD we delivered to them for research?

Seriously, think about that.  Saddam is an evil dude.  He killed many and was at war.  We delivered strains of deadly diseases and other weaponizable agents to his universities.

Did no one at the Reagan white house say "um, ya think saddam might use any of these very deadly things?  Or does he just value eduation too much"?

It's either facilitation to commit mass murder with WMD, or incredible irresponsibility.

Okay, I'll accept this as some sort of admission that we, in fact, did not arm Saddam with chemical weapons (as you have alleged).

I do agree it was naive to hand over biological agents to Iraqi universities, but the US didn't create these weapons, and they didn't use them to kill anyone.

Your beef lies with Saddam, as I suspected.
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Re: Congressional Record - How Saddam Happened
« Reply #33 on: February 06, 2007, 03:13:35 PM »
BRUCE, your analysis looks great on paper.  But everyone knew what an evil guy Saddam was!  And they send deadly strains to his universities to be studied?  To me, the belief that "we thought they would use them for good, not evil" is incredibly naive.   Beyond naive.  Outright gullible.  Saddam executes hundreds on the week of his inauguration with his own hand for the world to see, and Reagan sends his schools the deadliest strains known to man "to study"?  The very intel his nation would gain, alone, is irresponsible.  But sending the strains?  And the fact Rumsfeld was photographed taking a pic with him the week of the gassing.  What was that?

Seriously, there's nothing wrong with saying Reagan messed up.  

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Re: Congressional Record - How Saddam Happened
« Reply #34 on: February 06, 2007, 03:15:30 PM »
I do agree it was naive to hand over biological agents to Iraqi universities, but the US didn't create these weapons, and they didn't use them to kill anyone.

NAIVE?

Are you shittin' us?

What did they THINK would happen? 

Seriously, what if N. Korea decided to give it's nuke secrets to Iranian and Syrian "universities" for energy research.  Would you consider Kim Jung Il to be "naive", and ignore it as you're ignoring Reagan's act?

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Re: Congressional Record - How Saddam Happened
« Reply #35 on: February 06, 2007, 03:33:26 PM »
NAIVE?

Are you shittin' us?

What did they THINK would happen? 

Seriously, what if N. Korea decided to give it's nuke secrets to Iranian and Syrian "universities" for energy research.  Would you consider Kim Jung Il to be "naive", and ignore it as you're ignoring Reagan's act?

So is it 'naive', or just a plain lie, when you tell us that we sent Saddam mustard gas?
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Re: Congressional Record - How Saddam Happened
« Reply #36 on: February 06, 2007, 03:34:13 PM »
So is it 'naive', or just a plain lie, when you tell us that we sent Saddam mustard gas?

We did send it to him.

It arrived at his universities.

it was taken to his military bases.

it was used to kill thousands.

Dos Equis

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Re: Congressional Record - How Saddam Happened
« Reply #37 on: February 06, 2007, 03:36:49 PM »
So is it 'naive', or just a plain lie, when you tell us that we sent Saddam mustard gas?


Don't ask for proof. . . . .

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Re: Congressional Record - How Saddam Happened
« Reply #38 on: February 06, 2007, 03:47:03 PM »
We did send it to him.

It arrived at his universities.

it was taken to his military bases.

it was used to kill thousands.

This is total garbage.  Provide me with evidence, or admit this is a lie.
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Re: Congressional Record - How Saddam Happened
« Reply #39 on: February 06, 2007, 03:55:09 PM »
This is total garbage.  Provide me with evidence, or admit this is a lie.

Look up. 

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Re: Congressional Record - How Saddam Happened
« Reply #40 on: February 06, 2007, 03:56:06 PM »
Look up. 

To see your complete lack of evidence?
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Re: Congressional Record - How Saddam Happened
« Reply #41 on: February 06, 2007, 04:24:55 PM »
It has, in my other thread.  It should be pointed out to whom, and why, these samples were given.  Keep reading for the answers.

So you honestly believe that we gave them weapons for research purposes only? Whatever our intentions, Saddam murdered his people with chemical weapons that we gave him. A fact like this isn't directly written in stone, but it's there for everyone to see. We gave him weapons hoping he'd use them to keep Iran in line and he did just that, along with murdering his own people.


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Re: Congressional Record - How Saddam Happened
« Reply #42 on: February 06, 2007, 04:50:27 PM »
So you honestly believe that we gave them weapons for research purposes only? Whatever our intentions, Saddam murdered his people with chemical weapons that we gave him. A fact like this isn't directly written in stone, but it's there for everyone to see. We gave him weapons hoping he'd use them to keep Iran in line and he did just that, along with murdering his own people.



We didn't give anyone weapons, that's not only my contention, it's the contention of every piece of evidence you have seen.  Try and understand that.
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Re: Congressional Record - How Saddam Happened
« Reply #43 on: February 06, 2007, 09:04:31 PM »
We didn't give anyone weapons, that's not only my contention, it's the contention of every piece of evidence you have seen.  Try and understand that.

Did we give dangerous chemicals like anthrax to Iraqi schools?

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Re: Congressional Record - How Saddam Happened
« Reply #44 on: February 06, 2007, 09:11:06 PM »
Did we give dangerous chemicals like anthrax to Iraqi schools?

Anthrax isn't a chemical.  It's a bacterium.  And the evidence suggets Saddam developed this himself.
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Re: Congressional Record - How Saddam Happened
« Reply #45 on: February 06, 2007, 09:22:45 PM »
Anthrax isn't a chemical.  It's a bacterium.  And the evidence suggets Saddam developed this himself.

Rephrased:

What do documents show the US Govt provided to iraqi institutions, knowing well that he was fighting a war with Iran and had declared a dictatorship on day one, killing all his adversaries in a brutal, public manner?

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Re: Congressional Record - How Saddam Happened
« Reply #46 on: February 06, 2007, 09:28:07 PM »
Rephrased:

What do documents show the US Govt provided to iraqi institutions, knowing well that he was fighting a war with Iran and had declared a dictatorship on day one, killing all his adversaries in a brutal, public manner?

There are plenty of war stricken places on earth the US sends aid to, however naive you and I perceive this incident to be.  Either way, the US is proven to have not armed Saddam.  They did not send arms, or anything intended to be made into arms.  If they wanted Iraq to exert force on its enemies, why did they not send missiles or bombs or chemical weapons?  This is trivial, to say the least.
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Re: Congressional Record - How Saddam Happened
« Reply #47 on: February 06, 2007, 09:29:42 PM »
There are plenty of war stricken places on earth the US sends aid to, however naive you and I perceive this incident to be.  Either way, the US is proven to have not armed Saddam.  They did not send arms, or anything intended to be made into arms.  If they wanted Iraq to exert force on its enemies, why did they not send missiles or bombs or chemical weapons?  This is trivial, to say the least.

What bio agents did we send them?

anthrax?  botulism?  others?  I believe bubonic plague was mentioned.

Did we give some or all of these biological agents to iraqi schools during a time of war with their neighbor?


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Re: Congressional Record - How Saddam Happened
« Reply #48 on: February 06, 2007, 09:44:15 PM »
What bio agents did we send them?

anthrax?  botulism?  others?  I believe bubonic plague was mentioned.

Did we give some or all of these biological agents to iraqi schools during a time of war with their neighbor?



Good question.  Read the document I provided and see if you can tell me.  I doubt strongly The US sent anything that is already harmful to people, rather, I believe from what I've seen, Saddam developed them from other cultures.
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Re: Congressional Record - How Saddam Happened
« Reply #49 on: February 06, 2007, 09:47:39 PM »
Good question.  Read the document I provided and see if you can tell me.  I doubt strongly The US sent anything that is already harmful to people, rather, I believe from what I've seen, Saddam developed them from other cultures.

:(

Well, it's been a good debate.  Thanks for not answering my bolded question.