RON PAUL ON GUN CONTROL - THIS GUY GETS IT!

[MuscleMcMannus]

Waco made the govt very skiddish about overreaching as far as that goes.

I do believe we need a Boston Tea Party immediately against Paulson and the Fed and the Banks.

Boston Tea Party?  LMAO!  Let me put it to you this way........we could learn a lot from our enemies.  The movie V for Vendetta is not too far off if America is to survive. 

[Soul Crusher]

Boston Tea Party?  LMAO!  Let me put it to you this way........we could learn a lot from our enemies.  The movie V for Vendetta is not too far off if America is to survive. 

I never saw it. 

However, what is going on is beyond insane.  What is worse, you and I may disagree on issues, etc, however at least you and I are informed as to what is going on. 

Most of the people I speak to, friends, family, etc, dont read newspapers, internet articles, etc and have ZERO CLUE about what is going on in the world. 

My personal friends know more about college basketball and their stupid fantasy football teams than they do about Paulson, Bernake, Goldman Sachs, Bush, etc.

Its really unreal.  We are witinessing the theft of over a trillion dollars by traitorous bankers and no one says boo about it but some of us on the internet. 

Really sad.

[MuscleMcMannus]

I never saw it. 

However, what is going on is beyond insane.  What is worse, you and I may disagree on issues, etc, however at least you and I are informed as to what is going on. 

Most of the people I speak to, friends, family, etc, dont read newspapers, internet articles, etc and have ZERO CLUE about what is going on in the world. 

My personal friends know more about college basketball and their stupid fantasy football teams than they do about Paulson, Bernake, Goldman Sachs, Bush, etc.

Its really unreal.  We are witinessing the theft of over a trillion dollars by traitorous bankers and no one says boo about it but some of us on the internet. 

Really sad.

You're exactly right.  And although we disagree on a few things you and I agree on so much more and I'd have no problem picking up a gun and fighting along side like minded Patriots as yourself.  Most of my friends are more interested in playing Wii and like you said watching sports.  But this is exactly how the elite want it.  Dumb downed cattle.  Listen to my clip I posted over on the nutrition board.  It will resonate with you very much. 

[Soul Crusher]

You're exactly right.  And although we disagree on a few things you and I agree on so much more and I'd have no problem picking up a gun and fighting along side like minded Patriots as yourself.  Most of my friends are more interested in playing Wii and like you said watching sports.  But this is exactly how the elite want it.  Dumb downed cattle.  Listen to my clip I posted over on the nutrition board.  It will resonate with you very much. 

Its unreal.  I am made to feel like a nut when i try discussing these things with my friends. 

For example - I was in the car the other day with some friends  - Michael Savage was on talking about Paulson and the theft and the bonuses, the war profiteering by KBR, and they made me change the damn channel to FM!

You are 100000% correct, the conditioning and softening has worked.  The people who care about what is going on are perceived as "extreme", while the drones who obsess over their fantasy football stats are "cool". 

My GF's father told me I was "paranoid" when I told him I think Paulson is a thief and that the recession we are in os going to get far worse before it gets better. 

[MuscleMcMannus]

Its unreal.  I am made to feel like a nut when i try discussing these things with my friends. 

For example - I was in the car the other day with some friends  - Michael Savage was on talking about Paulson and the theft and the bonuses, the war profiteering by KBR, and they made me change the damn channel to FM!

You are 100000% correct, the conditioning and softening has worked.  The people who care about what is going on are perceived as "extreme", while the drones who obsess over their fantasy football stats are "cool". 

My GF's father told me I was "paranoid" when I told him I think Paulson is a thief and that the recession we are in os going to get far worse before it gets better. 

Dude don't even waste your time talking to other people about it.  I've since learned my lesson.  My gf used to call it my "darkside".  LOL.  This was over a year ago when I was reading CrashProof and Web Of Debt .  Now after all this stuff is coming to fruition she is coming around.  You have to understand most people don't want to hear negativity regardless of whether it's true or not.  People like living in their fairy tale comfort zone.  We are like sheep. 

[Soul Crusher]

Dude don't even waste your time talking to other people about it.  I've since learned my lesson.  My gf used to call it my "darkside".  LOL.  This was over a year ago when I was reading CrashProof and Web Of Debt .  Now after all this stuff is coming to fruition she is coming around.  You have to understand most people don't want to hear negativity regardless of whether it's true or not.  People like living in their fairy tale comfort zone.  We are like sheep. 

Too damn true! 

[Decker]

It's pretty damn easy to kill with a knife too.

They don't "run out of bullets" and never jam.

A gun is just a tool like any other.

A gun is not a tool just like any other.  That's specious.  Guns make killing more feasible and easier than any other tool out there.  With the right gun, you can mow down a crowd of people.  You can't say that about a screwdriver or knife.

Any object in the universe can be a tool.  Let's drop the relativism and call a spade a spade. 

If a gun is just a tool like a knife or hammer then the US military would use knives and hammers when spearheading military operations.  It issues guns b/c guns are extremely effective tools for killing.

Why is this point so controversial?

On the other hand, if a gun is merely another tool, what is its use?

What is the function of a gun?

[Soul Crusher]

A gun is an equalizer that allows a physically weaker person to be on par with a physically stronger person. 

A senior citizen in their home can defend themselves against a physically stronger drugged up maniac with a knife or a bat, or even a gun.

Of course a gun makes "killing " easier.

However, that is not a bad thing.
 

[Decker]

A gun is an equalizer that allows a physically weaker person to be on par with a physically stronger person. 

A senior citizen in their home can defend themselves against a physically stronger drugged up maniac with a knife or a bat, or even a gun.

Of course a gun makes "killing " easier.

However, that is not a bad thing.
 

I thought I was pointing out something obvious.  You get it.  You're not defensive on the matter.

A gun is a tool for killing or dealing great damage.  Whether that's done in self defense or crime or whatever is immaterial to that simple understanding.

[Soul Crusher]

I thought I was pointing out something obvious.  You get it.  You're not defensive on the matter.

A gun is a tool for killing or dealing great damage.  Whether that's done in self defense or crime or whatever is immaterial to that simple understanding.

Or hunting.  But whether it is an animal or a person, of course a guns' primary purpose is to kill or maim another person.

Like I said, a knife in the hand of an old lady is not as dangerous as that of drugged up maniac.

A gun in the hand of an old lady is equally lethal to that of a drugged up mainiac.

that is why I favor allowing citizens, with proper training and background checks, to be allowed to have CCW permits.   

[w8tlftr]

A gun is not a tool just like any other.  That's specious.  Guns make killing more feasible and easier than any other tool out there.  With the right gun, you can mow down a crowd of people.  You can't say that about a screwdriver or knife.

Any object in the universe can be a tool.  Let's drop the relativism and call a spade a spade. 

If a gun is just a tool like a knife or hammer then the US military would use knives and hammers when spearheading military operations.  It issues guns b/c guns are extremely effective tools for killing.

Why is this point so controversial?

On the other hand, if a gun is merely another tool, what is its use?

What is the function of a gun?

Decker, is a loaded gun sitting on a table or laying on the ground a threat? No, it's not.

A gun, a bladed weapon, lead pipe, whatever is not a danger to anyone until it is picked up and used as a dangerous weapon.

The "function" of a gun (and I'm talking handguns not shotguns and rifles used for hunting), and I've had this discussion with law enforcement, is self-defense. That's what they use it for and that's what I'd use it for.

Seriously, your argument can be used for basically anything from guns to cars (driven by drunk drivers) to military combative and martial arts training. I have about 6 years of martial arts training and was a wrestler for 6 years. The sole purpose for my Krav Maga training is to seriously injure and, if necessary, take someones life. Does that make me any different from a gun? Oh, and as for the military use of guns... it's the soldiers and marines pulling the trigger of the weapons doing the killing. The "guns" are just the tool used to carry out the task, as you stated, efficiently.

It's all in the intent and use of the tool, buddy.

Anyhoo, have a safe and Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. 

[Decker]

Decker, is a loaded gun sitting on a table or laying on the ground a threat? No, it's not.

A tool is only a tool if it is used.  Guns do not shoot themselves.  Knives do not cut sandwiches without a little help.

A gun, a bladed weapon, lead pipe, whatever is not a danger to anyone until it is picked up and used as a dangerous weapon.

Exactly.  And when a gun is picked up, it is a hell of alot more deadly and destructive than a knife or stone  could ever be.

The "function" of a gun (and I'm talking handguns not shotguns and rifles used for hunting), and I've had this discussion with law enforcement, is self-defense. That's what they use it for and that's what I'd use it for.

How is it a tool of self-defense?  It can kill or maim an attacker better than any other tool out there.  That's why people carry guns instead of rolled up pieces of baloney.

Seriously, your argument can be used for basically anything from guns to cars (driven by drunk drivers) to military combative and martial arts training. I have about 6 years of martial arts training and was a wrestler for 6 years. The sole purpose for my Krav Maga training is to seriously injure and, if necessary, take someones life. Does that make me any different from a gun? Oh, and as for the military use of guns... it's the soldiers and marines pulling the trigger of the weapons doing the killing. The "guns" are just the tool used to carry out the task, as you stated, efficiently.

I'm sort of arguing the exact opposite of that point.  Although I am certain you are a very capable fighter, I can't use you to rob a liquor store or defend myself from an attacker.  You aren't fungible.  Guns are.

The simple fact of the matter that we are confusing here is that criminal intent, justifiable self defense etc are interesting topics but not necessary to the determination that a gun makes killing more feasible and easier than just about any other tool out there.

It's all in the intent and use of the tool, buddy.

Anyhoo, have a safe and Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. 

Same to you Bud.  Enjoy your time off.  I gotta work X-mas eve.  I don't mind but my wife's not happy.

[w8tlftr]

A tool is only a tool if it is used.  Guns do not shoot themselves.  Knives do not cut sandwiches without a little help.
Exactly.  And when a gun is picked up, it is a hell of alot more deadly and destructive than a knife or stone  could ever be.
How is it a tool of self-defense?  It can kill or maim an attacker better than any other tool out there.  That's why people carry guns instead of rolled up pieces of baloney.
I'm sort of arguing the exact opposite of that point.  Although I am certain you are a very capable fighter, I can't use you to rob a liquor store or defend myself from an attacker.  You aren't fungible.  Guns are.

The simple fact of the matter that we are confusing here is that criminal intent, justifiable self defense etc are interesting topics but not necessary to the determination that a gun makes killing more feasible and easier than just about any other tool out there.
Same to you Bud.  Enjoy your time off.  I gotta work X-mas eve.  I don't mind but my wife's not happy.

I think we're all going round and round on this. We all agree that guns, like any other weapon, are tools. While I do agree that guns are very very dangerous weapons they are only as dangerous as the person using them. I think you and I can make the same argument about bow/arrows and bladed weapons. Now, while I (God forbid) have never been shot or cut by a knife people do survive gun shot wounds. Knives not so much. If I had to choose which weapon I'd rather be attacked with? Gun, knife, or blunt weapon? Neither. They all suck but I'd surely put knives at the front of the line of my "keep the fuck away from me" list.

Anyhoo, the bad guys are not going to obey the law. If they did they wouldn't be criminals. It's my opinion that the Constitution is pretty clear. My right to own a firearm shall not be infringed upon. That means I have the right to chose or own or not to own weapon. I fear the day when the government strips us of that right. That's the day we stop being free men in this country.

Just my two cents.

Merry Christmas, Decker.