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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Mixed Martial Arts (MMA/UFC) => Topic started by: wisconsinBB on April 20, 2007, 12:15:09 PM
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I would put my money on a UFC champ over any boxer, anyday. I think a guy like Shawn Sherk would just bull rush mayweather, take him to the ground, and give him the ass whooping of his life Thoughts??
Here's the article: http://sports.yahoo.com/box/news?slug=dw-mayweather041807&prov=yhoo&type=lgns#headline
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How old are you, son?
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bodybuilder
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Old enough to know that floyd mayweather couldnt do shit on the ground
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rubbish,,,,,,, the pool of talent boxers go thru to reach the top makes ufc look totaly amature, and as if the boxers couldnt learn to fight ufc style... put tyson, manny pac, ricky hatton in against a ufc fighter the same weight and theyd kill them
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I disagree. I think it would take much longer to teach a boxer all the wrestling/ grappling skills these guys have than to teach a wreslter boxing skills.
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boxers are really good at one thing (boxing).
mma dudes are pretty good at a few things (standup, ground game, wrestling, etc).
all depends on the matchups. a shitty boxer would lose against a good mma guy, and vice versa.
but put the top boxer in the world vs the top mma dude in the world, i have a feeling the boxer would win 9/10 times.
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lol Floyd is halarious..,, i can't believe he honestly thinks that he can take on Sherk. Dana White was right, Floyd is a one trick pony and if Sherk passes his stand-up then its game over.
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I just think that a ufc guy could instantly close the gap that a boxer needs to land a solid punch, then the boxer would be screwed. In UFC, the ref doesnt break up the fighters when they tie up!!!
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the end of the day, men stand and trade blows, little puffs roll around the floor huggin each other!
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That's some funny shit! The UFC middle class fighters dominate boxing's elite!
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I just dont get why some people think UFC or Pride fighters are middle class. I think boxers are starting to get jealous cuz nobody fucking cares about boxing anymore. Since lennox lewis, I have no idea who the boxing heavyweight champ even has been. The gap between paydays for boxing and UFC will eventually close, then UFC will surpase boxing.
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boxings in the dumps because the heavyweights are shite,,, the lower weights are shit hot, such as the welters etc,, it comes round in circles, once theres a domminant heavyweight it'l be buisness as normal... i wouldnt pay money to watch growen men writhe round the floor with each other, and some of the stand up fighting in ufc is pathetic, seen better in pub car parks
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there is this discussion at the MMA forum....
sorry, if you guys think the big chances are for the boxer guy, you guys dont have a clue...off course, it all comes down to strategy. If you will fight mike tyson, you will NOT trade punces with him, its just that obvios...
doing this, and 98% of the fights will be dominate by MMA guys (in a situation with only boxing fighters). When you dont have a clue of ground game and someone puts you there, you are f*cked
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I agree that there are many poor standup fighters in the UFC. The last fight with sanchez and koscheck was awful, all standup and no action, I wanted 15 minutes of my life back, however I don't think that a guy like Matt Hughes or Randy Coutoure would get "punished" by any boxer.
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This was settled in UFC 1 for frick sake. Royce Gracie PUNISHED Art Jimmerson. He tapped out at 2:18 in the first round, Gracie didn't even have a submission hold on him.
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This was settled in UFC 1 for frick sake. Royce Gracie PUNISHED Art Jimmerson. He tapped out at 2:18 in the first round, Gracie didn't even have a submission hold on him.
which one of his patented moves did hoyce use back then? was it the hair pull, the kick to the balls, the grabbing of the adam's apple or the finger up the asshole?
i swear, that guy defined the ufc rules of conduct.
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This was settled in UFC 1 for frick sake. Royce Gracie PUNISHED Art Jimmerson. He tapped out at 2:18 in the first round, Gracie didn't even have a submission hold on him.
Ahh, so true. Other than maurice smith, kickboxers have consistantly gotten their asses handed to them by guys who know how to fight on the ground. Why would a fight between a UFC fighter and a boxer be that much different than a fight between a UFC fighter and a kickboxer????[
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I would like to see a boxer deffend a takdown from Fedor or left highkick from CroCop... ;D
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Ahh, so true. Other than maurice smith, kickboxers have consistantly gotten their asses handed to them by guys who know how to fight on the ground. Why would a fight between a UFC fighter and a boxer be that much different than a fight between a UFC fighter and a kickboxer????[
Exactly, kickboxers use hands and feet, boxers use just hands. But, respect to Maurice Smith for his defeat of Mark Coleman way back in the day. Also, no shame in losing the title to Randy Couture.
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Where's that quote fromTom Prince about 600lbs of muscle? ;D
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rubbish,,,,,,, the pool of talent boxers go thru to reach the top makes ufc look totaly amature, and as if the boxers couldnt learn to fight ufc style... put tyson, manny pac, ricky hatton in against a ufc fighter the same weight and theyd kill them
Vand would destroy Tyson. If you doubt this you are on serious drugs. It's 420 and all but seriously, Tyson would get killed by Vand.
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Isn't this why the UFC was started?
To see what martial arts was best?
Seems to me, I don't remember the boxers doing too well in the oringinal tourneys....
The fight would depend 100% on the rules.
The reason they fight the way they do in the UFC, is that the tournaments dictated that type of style to be the most effective.
If boxing dominated all the other forms of martial arts, then all the UFC guys would be boxing dominant, and there wouldn't be ground and pound, submissions, BJJ, etc., etc.
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Change the name to Ultimate Frisbee Championships and then maybe we can say they have some skill.
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THIS IS A FUCKEN STUPID THREAD, WHAT WOULD A BOXER DO IF HE WAS TACKELED TO THE GROUND OR SPRAWLED NOTHING HE WOULD BE LIKE A TURTLE ON HIS BACK.HANDS DOWN MMA OR BRAZILIAN JUJITSU BOXERS ARENT SHIT BUT BOXERS AND IN A STREET FIGHT 90 PERCENT OF FIGHTS END UP ON THE GROUND MY POINT EXACTLY.
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Change the name to Ultimate Frisbee Championships and then maybe we can say they have some skill.
I'm sure you have sweet skills. ::)
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i dont know of one boxer who accepted the full rules for any mma fighter - they always insight on limited ground work (timed amount broken up by ref).
a perfect example would be the lack of K1 champs that are champs in mma.
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a felony fighter would kill any boxer or ufc punk anyday.
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rubbish,,,,,,, the pool of talent boxers go thru to reach the top makes ufc look totaly amature, and as if the boxers couldnt learn to fight ufc style... put tyson, manny pac, ricky hatton in against a ufc fighter the same weight and theyd kill them
Exactly!! Anyone that knows boxing knows how many years and how much work goes into becoming great at it.
Brock Lesnar decided 8 months ago to fight mma and although he has a wrestling backround there is alot more to know....I think he will become a pretty good heavy weight fighter in a short time...
I guarantee if he chose boxing instead, he would never get past the golden glove amatuer level...big difference.
Phil Baroni, who I know and like and respect very much, chose to pursue mma and NOT boxing even though he was training for kick boxing, but never using his legs.... He realized that he could become great at mma, but Boxing, even with the huge money involved, would probably never get to a open golden gloves win.
Sure anyone can turn pro in boxing, but where does that get you when you have to step up to a guy that won golden gloves, empire states, junior olympics and olympic team and still isn't the champ?
Much different disciplines.
Like we've discussed before here, if you just take a skill that BOTH athletes have and use (striking with FIST) and let them go, mma guys would get there asses handed to them by a second tier boxer....A top tier would simply make them look ridiculous.
If they wanted to do mma, skills that a boxer NEVER developed then it would be ridiculous and the mma guy would win in most cases. That, however, is ridiculous to compare...almost like comparing the hitting ability of a center fielder to a American League pitcher that hasn't picked up a bat in 15 years.
If we are to compare at LEAST make comparisons based on disciplines or skills BOTH athletes train, ya follow?
Enough of the boxing mma comparisons, it ridiculous after a while.
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"Why would I go into a sport paying hundreds of thousands when I'm in a sport paying $20 million?" Mayweather said. ::)
Perhaps to prove what's he claiming? Of course, in reality he knows he'd get his ass kicked, but that's a convenient excuse. Boxing's going down and MMA is going up. That's the reason he feels insecure and has to say crap like that
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Exactly!! Anyone that knows boxing knows how many years and how much work goes into becoming great at it.
rock Lesnar decided 8 months ago to fight mma and although he has a wrestling backround there is alot more to know....I think he will become a pretty good heavy weight fighter in a short time...
I guarantee if he chose boxing instead he would never get past the golden glove amatuer level...big difference.
Phil Baroni, who I know and like and respect very much, chose to pursue mma and NOT boxing even though he was training for kick boxing, but never using his legs.... He realized that he could become great at mma, but Boxing, even with the huge money involved, would probably never get to a open golden gloves win.
Sure anyone can turn pro in boxing, but where does that get you when you have to step up to a guy that won golden gloves, empire states, junior olympics and olympic team and stiil isn't the champ?
Much different disciplines.
Like we've discussed before here, if you just take a skill that BOTH athletes have and use, FIST, and let them go mma guys would get there asses handed to them by a second tier boxer....A top tier would simply make them look ridiculous.
If they wanted to do mma, skills that a boxer NEVER developed then it would be ridiculous and the mma guy would win in most cases. That, however, is ridiculous to compare...almost like comparing the hitting ability of a center fielder to a American League pitcher that hasn't picked up a bat in 15 years.
If we are to compare at LEAST make comparisons based on disciplines or skills BOTH athletes train, ya follow?
Enough of the boxing mma comparisons, it ridiculous after a while.
But what the guy seemed to be claiming was that if a boxer got in the octagon, he could win. Which is no where near true and has been shown by the collective beatdown every competitor who doesn't know how to grapple has realized. The ONLY place a boxer would beat MMA would be in a boxing ring under the rules of boxing. It's unrealistic to think in a real street fight everyone is going to stay on their feet and release when the ref tells them too. I won't deny that incredible amount of talent it takes to succeed in boxing, that would be rediculous. But the reason it takes such incredible skill is because boxing is so far different from simulating actual realistic hand-to-hand combat like MMA does.
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Exactly!! Anyone that knows boxing knows how many years and how much work goes into becoming great at it.
Brock Lesnar decided 8 months ago to fight mma and although he has a wrestling backround there is alot more to know....I think he will become a pretty good heavy weight fighter in a short time...
I guarantee if he chose boxing instead, he would never get past the golden glove amatuer level...big difference.
Phil Baroni, who I know and like and respect very much, chose to pursue mma and NOT boxing even though he was training for kick boxing, but never using his legs.... He realized that he could become great at mma, but Boxing, even with the huge money involved, would probably never get to a open golden gloves win.
Sure anyone can turn pro in boxing, but where does that get you when you have to step up to a guy that won golden gloves, empire states, junior olympics and olympic team and still isn't the champ?
Much different disciplines.
Like we've discussed before here, if you just take a skill that BOTH athletes have and use (striking with FIST) and let them go, mma guys would get there asses handed to them by a second tier boxer....A top tier would simply make them look ridiculous.
If they wanted to do mma, skills that a boxer NEVER developed then it would be ridiculous and the mma guy would win in most cases. That, however, is ridiculous to compare...almost like comparing the hitting ability of a center fielder to a American League pitcher that hasn't picked up a bat in 15 years.
If we are to compare at LEAST make comparisons based on disciplines or skills BOTH athletes train, ya follow?
Enough of the boxing mma comparisons, it ridiculous after a while.
What exactly wil his boxing skills do for him when he's on his back getting soccer kicked in the head? ???
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Here a world class boxer shows how he can dominate a MMA fight, and how tough he is
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Enough of the boxing mma comparisons, it ridiculous after a while.
Yes, it's also waste of time. You can get an answer by spending 2 minutes watching this
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karelin would crush all.
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I'm sure you have sweet skills. ::)
Throw me in one of those martial arts dojos, and I could take out all of your house of pain, tapout wearing compadres.
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a felony fighter would kill any boxer or ufc punk anyday.
kimbo got his ass kicked by a d lister in the ufc.
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kimbo got his ass kicked by a d lister in the ufc.
And that was WITH epic intervention from his entourage.
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i wish mayweather would just go away. the guy is mad because boxing is losing its appeal. nobody is watching it anymore....just trying to get some press
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I think the video of gracie fighting jimmerson says it all. Jimmerson was a pretty decent boxer and got his ass handed to him. Shawn Sherk would do the EXACT same thing to Mayweather, except beat his ass a little more once it went to the ground. Dana White says he'll set up the fight if Mayweather agrees to it, but Mayweather never will, regardless of how big the purse because he knows he'll get his ass kicked. There is no doubt mayweather would kill Sherk in a boxing match, but Mayweather seems to think he could win with UFC rules.
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Boxing is harder then UFC. Afterall UFC "fighters" just fall to the ground and wait for their "opponent" to wrestle like homosexuals.
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Art Jimmerson had a professional record of 29-5 when he fought Gracie. Thats pretty respectable, but he didnt even last 3 minutes with Gracie! I give Mayweather less than 2 with Shawn Sherk.
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Boxing is harder then UFC. Afterall UFC "fighters" just fall to the ground and wait for their "opponent" to wrestle like homosexuals.
that's only if the MMA guy is as skilled as Alexxx ::)
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Unlimited Free Cocks
That is was dballin is such an activist for the cause.
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Boxing is harder then UFC. Afterall UFC "fighters" just fall to the ground and wait for their "opponent" to wrestle like homosexuals.
lol, the champ is always here to reveal the brutal truth!
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That is was dballin is such an activist for the cause.
hahaha ok Alexxx ::)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=86431.0;attach=93547;image)
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in todays day and age whoever has a glock
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i love to go to the gym and get mounted.
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Old enough to know that floyd mayweather couldnt do shit on the ground
Do you HONESTLY believe that the best fighters in the world AREN'T in boxing?
LOL!!!
It's unreal how many of you have bought into MMA.
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Do you HONESTLY believe that the best fighters in the world AREN'T in boxing?
LOL!!!
It's unreal how many of you have bought into MMA.
Yup they are clueless!
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Do you HONESTLY believe that the best fighters in the world AREN'T in boxing?
LOL!!!
It's unreal how many of you have bought into MMA.
The reason so many of us have bought into it is because we've seen boxing exposed for the incomplete martial art that it is.
With regard to the purse money, boxing has a 100 year history, whereas MMA is barely 10 years old. The comparision isn't valid. How much were boxers making when the sport was very young? It's the next generation of mma fighters that will make the big money. More kids today know Tito Ortiz and Chuck Liddell than any boxer. The future fan base of MMA is greater than that of boxing.
As far as the greatest fighter in the world, his name is Fedor Emilianenko.
No boxer past or present would have a chance against him.
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The reason so many of us have bought into it is because we've seen boxing exposed for the incomplete martial art that it is.
With regard to the purse money, boxing has a 100 year history, whereas MMA is barely 10 years old. The comparision isn't valid. How much were boxers making when the sport was very young? It's the next generation of mma fighters that will make the big money. More kids today know Tito Ortiz and Chuck Liddell than any boxer. The future fan base of MMA is greater than that of boxing.
As far as the greatest fighter in the world, his name is Fedor Emilianenko.
No boxer past or present would have a chance against him.
Boxing is NOT a martial art.
A martial art expert named Richie barrathy (sp) was teaching mixed martial arts in ny way back in the 80's and named it American Combat. he included submissions, strikes and leg kicks and knees.
All his guys, who I respect, would say, "yeah but a boxer only uses his fist" etc.
Guess what/ Boxing is boxing and includes only fist.
It is the greatest sport there is and by far the best skilled fighters out there.
We will see where mma goes. People are already chanting boring at live events. The audience, for the most part, is uneducated to the mixed martial arts and does not understand it. I think the athletes that excell in mma will be south american and athletes from lower socio economic country's and not americans.
We will see, but boxing with it's roots very deep and the many competitions such as golden gloves, state games, national games, blue gloves, olympics etc will be around for ever and the skilled will go there.
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Boxing sure is an art. The art of combat. Just look at any of Muhammad Ali's performances!
You can also say Mike Tyson is very creative...
(http://www.worldofwallpapers.nuche.org/content/funnies/parodies/800/Mike-Tyson-biting-ear.jpg)
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Do you HONESTLY believe that the best fighters in the world AREN'T in boxing?
LOL!!!
It's unreal how many of you have bought into MMA.
Theres no doubt Mayweather is one of if not the best boxer in the world, but he would not beat a UFC fighter in the octagon with UFC rules. In a boxing match, yes, he would kill anyone in the ufc. Again, it seems as if Mayweather is saying he could win with UFC rules, which I dont believe for a second. Watch the video of gracie fighing Jimmerson and tell me what you think Mayweather would do differently. Granted Mayweather is much more skilled than Jimmerson, but Shirk is probably better all around than Gracie was at that time as well. If you've ever wrestled, you'd know that you can shoot for a leg takedown from a further distance than you can throw a punch. During a good shoot, your head is way lower than any boxer is used to hitting. Sherk would stay out of Mayweathers reach, then shoot for the takedown. Do you honestly think mayweather would be able to defend the takedown?
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Theres no doubt Mayweather is one of if not the best boxer in the world, but he would not beat a UFC fighter in the octagon with UFC rules. In a boxing match, yes, he would kill anyone in the ufc. Again, it seems as if Mayweather is saying he could win with UFC rules, which I dont believe for a second. Watch the video of gracie fighing Jimmerson and tell me what you think Mayweather would do differently. Granted Mayweather is much more skilled than Jimmerson, but Shirk is probably better all around than Gracie was at that time as well. If you've ever wrestled, you'd know that you can shoot for a leg takedown from a further distance than you can throw a punch. During a good shoot, your head is way lower than any boxer is used to hitting. Sherk would stay out of Mayweathers reach, then shoot for the takedown. Do you honestly think mayweather would be able to defend the takedown?
He'd be able to beat any UCF fighter in a boxing match, but it would be by points. The jaws on some of those guys, I doubt Mayweather would be able to actually knock many of them out.
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That little piece of shit Mayweather would get OWNED in the octagon. Here's a list of fighters that would mop him up: Kenny Florian, Sean Sherk, Nick Diaz, Takanori Gomi, Jens Pulver, BJ Penn, Mach Sakurai, Gilbert Melendez, Shinya Aoki, Yves Edwards, Joe Stevenson, fuck man I could go on all day. Granted he has a PUNCHER's chance, but seriously he'd be taken down and pounded out, or submitted.
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Do any of you Idiots think a Boxer could stuff a NCAA wreslters take down and actually keep the fight standing for more than 5 seconds?
Explain how a boxer would win and prevent the fight from going to the ground, when they have never practiced a sprawl in there lives?
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Pride fighters would destroy ALL boxers and a lot of UFC fighters. Remember Cro Cop's UFC debut? :D
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my take is this...Take a world class boxer ranked in the top 10 in the middle weight class and under and give him a month to train on his take down defense alone and he would destroy anyone in mma(middles and under)...But as the weight class gets up over middles, things change...
It all comes down to a world class boxer can punch almost nonstop through out the 5 min. rounds with no problem at all and every punch will have meaning behind it...These guys could get off combination after combination that no mma fighter has ever seen before...
As the guys get heavier they can't punch non stop like the lighter guys can...And they would probably get taken down...
Almost every mma fighter you watch fight backs up when punches are thrown...Boxers sit their and take it and move more side to side...I believe an MMa fighter could not handle all the punches coming at him at once...but if he did and it went to the ground, yes the boxer would not stand a chance....I just think that if you take a guy like mayweather and put him in the ring and he starts swinging as soon as the bell rings and doesn't stop, their isn't anyone that will be able to defend that...His punches would be pin point and they would not stop at all...The conditioning of the lighter boxers is just unreal..
Now if Mayweather came in scared and held back...He wouldn't stand a chance...He has to come in swinging and not stop...He would knock anyone out in less then a min...
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In the ring a boxer can almost constantly keep going after his opponent because all the other guy can do is block or punch back. In MMA, the other guy has the option of kicking or take downs. A boxer training to take downs defeats the point of the fight being boxing pitted against MMA. The fact is a pure boxer doesn't know how to deal with being kicked or taken down.
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Here a world class boxer shows how he can dominate a MMA fight, and how tough he is
the guy came in scared and gave royce way to much respect...A boxer has to come in swinging and not stop till the bell rings...
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Phil baroni is a pride fighter and although i respect him and like him he wouldn't get past the semis at the ny golden gloves.
That aint a rag on Phil, just a fact....he is a tough kid with tons of heart, but even he knows it and chose mma over boxing because with his ability and the level of mma required he knew he would become very well known.
Psht, Phil Baroni is balls >:( He has no business being in the same organization as Fedor.
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I guess the people he beat like Minowa should know that.
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Dont forget that the boxers wont have those big boxing gloves so the punches would be lethal. FOr the most part I think the MMA guys would win over a boxer but if one punch was landed by the boxer it would be over.
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Dont forget that the boxers wont have those big boxing gloves so the punches would be lethal. FOr the most part I think the MMA guys would win over a boxer but if one punch was landed by the boxer it would be over.
There's guys in the UFC like Cabbage though, you could smack 'em in the mouth with a baseball bat and they wouldn't flinch.
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This is true.
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This is true.
They also can take a knee or roundhouse to the face in MMA. That trumps just about any punch every time.
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There's guys in the UFC like Cabbage though, you could smack 'em in the mouth with a baseball bat and they wouldn't flinch.
I respect Cabbage like th enext guy but let's keep things in perspective. Cabbage is as tough as they come BUT he did lose (tko) this past summer to Bart Gunn, a former wwe tag team champion that is 42-4 years old.
Of course Bart Gunn is also a very good athlete, but neither him nor cabbage could stand toe to toe with Lennox Lewis with 4 oz gloves on...
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I respect Cabbage like th enext guy but let's keep things in perspective. Cabbage is as tough as they come BUT he did lose (tko) this past summer to Bart Gunn, a former wwe tag team champion that is 42-4 years old.
Of course Bart Gunn is also a very good athlete, but neither him nor cabbage could stand toe to toe with Lennox Lewis with 4 oz gloves on...
True, but I'd wager the likes of Cro Cop or a YOUNG Mark Coleman could.
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The polar bear would win easily.
It's the largest land predator and he outweighs the gorilla by 400 pounds or something.
Plus he has razor sharp claws.
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I remember watching on Sky Sports a few years ago a programme called Bushido,and Trevor Berbick was fighting a little japanese guy,the little guy threw a few kicks to Trevors legs,Trevor complained to the ref,saying he wasn`t fighting with these rules,the little japanese guy gave him one more kick to the thigh,he dropped like a ton of bricks.Just as he was about to kick him in the head while he was down,Trevor rolled out under the bottom rope and limped away,while the crowd booed him.
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Boxing fanatics are the ones who are uneducated here. A good mma fighter skilled in grappling will almost always defeat a great boxer (who has not crosstrained). Even good heavyweight Melton Bowen, was beaten by some lousy "ninjutsu" guy. He got taken down and that was it. He never got to his feet.
Remember, how many boxing fights end in one punch? The boxer might only get one chance to throw a combo before the mma fighter gets clinch and gets taken down.
Sean Sherk vs Mayweather. Mayweather will be defenseless because Sherk will shoot in so low that there are no knockout punches in boxing that can catch him. When Mayweather is on the ground 10 seconds into the fight....it will all be over.
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THIS IS A FUCKEN STUPID THREAD, WHAT WOULD A BOXER DO IF HE WAS TACKELED TO THE GROUND OR SPRAWLED NOTHING HE WOULD BE LIKE A TURTLE ON HIS BACK.HANDS DOWN MMA OR BRAZILIAN JUJITSU BOXERS ARENT SHIT BUT BOXERS AND IN A STREET FIGHT 90 PERCENT OF FIGHTS END UP ON THE GROUND MY POINT EXACTLY.
id say 90% of street fights are over in a few mins, one man is left standing after knockin the other to the ground, either with his head, fist, elbow, brick etc.... if you cant knockem out with your best shot, dont fight.. ive yet to see anyone pulling out wrestling moves in a street fight
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The polar bear would win easily.
It's the largest land predator and he outweighs the gorilla by 400 pounds or something.
Plus he has razor sharp claws.
ha ha i had to check what you said a few times there. I thought you were making reference to Paul Varleans! ;D
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This thread is retarded.
Floyd mayweather would destroy any of the hobos that are in the UFC in a pure boxing match. He makes actual boxers look like they are moving in molases.
If they would fight by UFC "rules" (and that term is a paradox in itself) obviously he would lose.
You can not compare the two, boxing is a sport, UFC is what you could watch at any college bar at 2:00.
Why would you pay to see it on TV, when you could watch it live every Friday and Saturday Night.
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well if you think that, then where are these college brawlers and why arent they beating the top guys in each weight class? Theres big money to be made in MMA afterall. Ill tell you why they arent there, its simply because they would have their amateur asses handed to them in record time.
You think guys like Chuck, Fedor, Nog, GSP, BJ etc just walked into the sport? they train like animals every day, they gave up their jobs for the chance to fight fulltime and it paid off. MMA isnt a sport for just anybody, if you think thats the case then return the UFC1 cassette back to the video store you rented it from and pay the fucking fine. Only the best get true recognition.
fact is, Floyd would be beaten in a way he had never thought possible if he entered into a sanctioned MMA fight with any of these guys. Hell, something like that with an ego like his could very well scare him out of fighting altogether. Boxing rules then yes, he would beat these guys but only because he is trained solely to use them. Anything else and its night night Floyd
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Tyson would crush Fedor ::)
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but this doesnt take away the top boxers ability at fighting, as i said before they had to go thru a much deeper and more talented pool to get to the top, which in comparison to ufc is lightyears ahead.... if these champoins chose to train mma style since childhood they would no doubt be incredible
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put a 21 yr old tyson in a room with anyone and there goin to get knocked the fuck out... pure animal
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Yes but this thread is champs vs champs. Unfortunately for the boxer, it is one sided, not much to do when your on your back getting stommped in the face and soccer kicked in the head.
At this point the talent pool to get there is out the window......
put a 21 yr old tyson in a room with anyone and there goin to get knocked the fuck out... pure animal
Crocop would take his head off, you are kidding right?
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firstly,, theres no such thing as a soccer kick, football is a worldwide game only americans choose to call it soccer
and yep, id put a 21 yr old tyson against anyone no kidding, in a ring, in a street,,,, anywhere
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firstly,, theres no such thing as a soccer kick, football is a worldwide game only americans choose to call it soccer
and yep, id put a 21 yr old tyson against anyone no kidding, in a ring, in a street,,,, anywhere
If you follow MMA....it is called a soccer kick, you may call it football, but for lack of a better technical terms, it is called a soccer kick. 21 year old tyson would get killed by a top MMA Guy, he'd have a better chance against Vitor.
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rubbish,,,,,,, the pool of talent boxers go thru to reach the top makes ufc look totaly amature, and as if the boxers couldnt learn to fight ufc style... put tyson, manny pac, ricky hatton in against a ufc fighter the same weight and theyd kill them
true true true. a top ranked boxer would destroy a UFC scrapper. i would love to see a top boxer make the switch to the UFC just to prove the point. But it aint going to happen because prize money in the ufc is nothing compared to a major prize fight in vegas.
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true true true. a top ranked boxer would destroy a UFC scrapper. i would love to see a top boxer make the switch to the UFC just to prove the point. But it aint going to happen because prize money in the ufc is nothing compared to a major prize fight in vegas.
Delusional as the day is long ::)
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How old are you, son?
Brilliant post ::)
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THIS IS A FUCKEN STUPID THREAD,
And yet you read and posted.
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This thread is retarded.
Floyd mayweather would destroy any of the hobos that are in the UFC in a pure boxing match. He makes actual boxers look like they are moving in molases.
If they would fight by UFC "rules" (and that term is a paradox in itself) obviously he would lose.
You can not compare the two, boxing is a sport, UFC is what you could watch at any college bar at 2:00.
Why would you pay to see it on TV, when you could watch it live every Friday and Saturday Night.
"This thread is retarded" then proceeds to discuss in detail LOL
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Another good (although not UFC) fighter that would destroy literally every boxer he ever would fight is Mark Hunt. The man managed to beat Cro Cop...I'm beginning to notice I may have an unhealthy obsession with Cro Cop's fighting abilities...*day dreams*
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Bleh, its just going to end up on the floor and we all know who wins there.
With all the wrestling/groundwork UFC is really boring as shite 9 times out of 10.
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Fukkk MMA! the true test is when they let anybody do anything they want, elbow to the back of the head, bite, poking in the eyes, everything.
in that sense, nobody will beat mike tyson. you think you can choke him out before he bites both your ears and nose off?????
shit he will bite you lips off and spit it in your face. and he will chew you fingers.
MMA is a joke. too many rules.
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Fukkk MMA! the true test is when they let anybody do anything they want, elbow to the back of the head, bite, poking in the eyes, everything.
in that sense, nobody will beat mike tyson. you think you can choke him out before he bites both your ears and nose off?????
shit he will bite you lips off and spit it in your face. and he will chew you fingers.
MMA is a joke. too many rules.
Well, it has become to be like that. The first UFC was awesome. Bare knuckles, and the only things you couldn't do were eye-gouge, bite, and strike to the groin.
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By UFC rules: mma fighter hands down
By boxing rules: boxer hands down
BUT...
I think one interesting thing to see is the effectiveness of a boxing strike with the lighter gloves. I don't think any of us can imagine the brutality of a boxer like tyson (in his prime) or lennox striking someones head with 4 oz gloves. One shot well placed shot could be all that is needed...mayweather would more than likely break his hand with the lighter gloves...
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By UFC rules: mma fighter hands down
By boxing rules: boxer hands down
BUT...
I think one interesting thing to see is the effectiveness of a boxing strike with the lighter gloves. I don't think any of us can imagine the brutality of a boxer like tyson (in his prime) or lennox striking someones head with 4 oz gloves. One shot well placed shot could be all that is needed...mayweather would more than likely break his hand with the lighter gloves...
But again, MMA has people getting kicked and kneed in the head.
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But again, MMA has people getting kicked and kneed in the head.
I hear you...I don't think it would be close...but I don't think we've seen anyone take a hit in MMA equivalent to a bare knuckled shot from an elite heavyweight boxer. MMA strikes are designed to stun, cut etc. Boxing strikes are designed to bludgeon. So hypothetically I think a boxer like tyson (again, in his prime) would have a small hope of landing a strike on an MMA fighter that would snap his neck (literally) or break every bone in his face before being taken to the ground...
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I hear you...I don't think it would be close...but I don't think we've seen anyone take a hit in MMA equivalent to a bare knuckled shot from an elite heavyweight boxer. MMA strikes are designed to stun, cut etc. Boxing strikes are designed to bludgeon. So hypothetically I think a boxer like tyson (again, in his prime) would have a small hope of landing a strike on an MMA fighter that would snap his neck (literally) or break every bone in his face before being taken to the ground...
I dunno, I really don't think he would have time. The peek-a-boo style he adopted, while great for protecting yourself in boxing, is just about the worst thing he could do in MMA. I don't think he'd ever have sufficient time or range to set up a great punch unless he got really really lucky.
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I dunno, I really don't think he would have time. The peek-a-boo style he adopted, while great for protecting yourself in boxing, is just about the worst thing he could do in MMA. I don't think he'd ever have sufficient time or range to set up a great punch unless he got really really lucky.
We are in agreement, but that's the opportunity for a boxer. One shot; one opportunity...dum da da dum da da dum...
The question is if it would be enough time for the boxer to land the shot...
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We are in agreement, but that's the opportunity for a boxer. One shot; one opportunity...dum da da dum da da dum...
The question is if it would be enough time for the boxer to land the shot...
Which is the part I just don't buy. There are some unbelievably fast men in the UFC.
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Which is the part I just don't buy. There are some unbelievably fast men in the UFC.
Well, that's why the play the game (or fight the fights in this case)
If GSP can lose like he did...I think a boxer should create enough doubt in your mind to at least want to see the fight...
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Well, that's why the play the game (or fight the fights in this case)
If GSP can lose like he did...I think a boxer should create enough doubt in your mind to at least want to see the fight...
Very true, I never saw a beatdown like that coming his way. At the same time, there was Couture's complete domination of Sylvia, who is more of a striker than a competent grappler. Captain America is certainly quite fast for someone collecting social security checks.
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UFC wins:
-More skillz
-More dangerous weapons-feet no. 1
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LMFAO! @ this thread.
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I can't believe some of you think UFC is a highly evolved deadliest form of combat. hahahahahahahahha
That is where the 3rd tier fighters go because they are afraid of getting destroyed in a boxing ring or k-1 ring!
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I can't believe some of you think UFC is a highly evolved deadliest form of combat. hahahahahahahahha
That is where the 3rd tier fighters go because they are afraid of getting destroyed in a boxing ring or k-1 ring!
You think boxing is a highly evolved deadly form of combat? :-\ When was the last time you saw a fight where each fighter stayed on their feet, only hit above the belt, and when the other falls, didn't keep coming after him?
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You think boxing is a highly evolved deadly form of combat? :-\ When was the last time you saw a fight where each fighter stayed on their feet, only hit above the belt, and when the other falls, didn't keep coming after him?
Boxers would totally destroy any guy in the street. Heck there has been lots of people testing Tyson and look at what hapened to them! 2 guys at a time and they still got knocked out. Now UFC is all about the streets.
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Boxers would totally destroy any guy in the street. Heck there has been lots of people testing Tyson and look at what hapened to them! 2 guys at a time and they still got knocked out. Now UFC is all about the streets.
Top tier boxer against top tier MMA, the only situation a boxer would win in, would be a boxing match. MMA style, street fight, wrestling, any other sort of fight, the MMA fighter would absolutely dominate.
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It is complete insanity to think a professional boxer could take on a professional mma fighter in a no holds bar fight...The mma fighter would close the gap between them and bring to boxer to the ground so fast it wouldn't be funny...Then the mma fighter would have his choice of to either choke the boxer out or just snap his arm or leg(Not to mention totally ground and pound the boxer)...You have to be serious when you are comparing the fighting skills both have and are trained to use...I wish Mayweather would take on a professional mma fighter and have his ass handed to him...I think it would sell like hell as a pay-per-view event...I know I would pay to watch Mayweather get owned in less than 2 minutes just to shut him up... ;D
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hahaha mayweather is too fast for any UFC "fighter"
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i realy cant see it bein too hard to pick up basic skills needed to for groundwork ( or gay groping as it should be called) especialy for a technichian like mayweather,,,,,, and no holds barred, 21yr old tryson would totaly destroy anyone, he grew up fighting on street corners before he honed his skills
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firstly,, theres no such thing as a soccer kick, football is a worldwide game only americans choose to call it soccer
and yep, id put a 21 yr old tyson against anyone no kidding, in a ring, in a street,,,, anywhere
Don't agree. Pure speculation, but I believe an "in his prime" Tyson would knock CroCop the fuck out.
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i realy cant see it bein too hard to pick up basic skills needed to for groundwork ( or gay groping as it should be called) especialy for a technichian like mayweather,,,,,, and no holds barred, 21yr old tryson would totaly destroy anyone, he grew up fighting on street corners before he honed his skills
Clearly you've never wrestled a day in your life.
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never get that close to another man, only wrestling i do is with our lass
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Don't agree. Pure speculation, but I believe and "in his prime" Tyson would knock CroCop the fuck out.
You are talking about two totally different fighter's with Tyson and Mayweather...Tyson, in his prime, was devastating at closed in positions...I have never seen a fighter past or present that has Tyson's power at a wrapped up position...Tyson could throw short right hooks and short uppercuts with more power than most heavyweights could throw in general...
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i realy cant see it bein too hard to pick up basic skills needed to for groundwork ( or gay groping as it should be called) especialy for a technichian like mayweather,,,,,, and no holds barred, 21yr old tryson would totaly destroy anyone, he grew up fighting on street corners before he honed his skills
Most retarded comment I've ever heard.
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Most retarded comment I've ever heard.
Epic truth. I did boxing when I was younger, and I had a decent record, but when I tried out for high school wrestling, I got my ass absolutely handed to me.
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Boxing is harder then UFC. Afterall UFC "fighters" just fall to the ground and wait for their "opponent" to wrestle like homosexuals.
Boxing looks more civilized and much prettier to watch but wrestling dominates UFC fights for one single reason, it works. Royce Gracie proved this a dozen times over by owning everyone in the ring. Guys 60 lbs heavier than him would tap out like little school girls. Until the payday's the same for UFC as it is for boxing there's gonna be a lot of smack talk. Fortunately with UFC's growing popularity and boxing's dwindling popularity we may not have to wait for very long.
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Epic truth. I did boxing when I was younger, and I had a decent record, but when I tried out for high school wrestling, I got my ass absolutely handed to me.
I played football and ran track in high school and was pretty strong for a high school kid. The wrestling coaches always tried to get me to go out, but was always the guy to say "I aint puttin on spandex and rollin around with another dude" My senior year I said what the hell and went out for wrestling. I had a winning record and won most of my matches with muscle, but I got my ass handed to me in the worst way when I went up against guys who had been wrestling since they were young. Wrestling was 100 times harder than any other sport I had ever played and to think someone could pick up on those skills easily is just plain retarded.
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Personally I would rather pay to go watch a championship UFC over any boxing championship...There are so many ways for the UFC fighters to win and things can change in a second even if you are getting your ass beat...It is by far more entertaining than boxing these days...I lost interest in boxing after Tyson's reign as champ...
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Top tier boxer against top tier MMA, the only situation a boxer would win in, would be a boxing match. MMA style, street fight, wrestling, any other sort of fight, the MMA fighter would absolutely dominate.
I enjoy mma, and was doing "mma" before it was called "mma", as I have been involved in martial arts for about 20 years. I trained mostly in "non-traditional" arts. All I can say is, it is silly to make such blanket statements as the above post. You have to look at the ATTRIBUTES of the fighters you are dealing with, not just their so-called skill set. Are these mma fighters you speak of in great condition (because they aren't always)? Is the boxer a naturally gifted athlete, or just someone with "heavy hands"?
You are going to tell me any mma fighter would "absolutely dominate" an in-his-prime Tyson, Benard Hopkins, Shane Mosely, or any number of other boxers in a street fight? Seriously, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Boxing is a HIGHLY effective form of self-defense for the streets. It may be limited in its arsenal, but on a concrete sidewalk or alleyway it isn't exactly the best idea to be fighting on the ground. Standing toe-to-toe with a professional boxer could cause you to get knocked out without you even seeing the punch coming. And having sparred with a couple of professional boxers, I know how hard they can be to even hit once, given their hand and head movement.
In an mma fight, the mma fighter clearly has the advantage. Logic should tell you that. In boxing, the boxer would have the advantage. Again, that is simple logic. But on the street where ANYTHING goes? It's the attributes of the fighters that will be a huge factor. A young Tyson in a street fight would bite CroCop's nuts off if he had to before punching Mirko harder than he has ever been hit in his life. I am not saying Fedor or CroCop wouldn't stand a chance...of course they would. They are tough guys with a lot of ring and cage experience. But never forget, UFC...PRIDE...BoreDog... IFL...these are all sporting organizations with rules and regulations. A streetfight IS NOT A SPORT AND THERE AREN'T ANY RULES.
That said, I'm done with this thread. These kinds of debates go in circles and most don't listen to those who know. >:(
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I enjoy mma, and was doing "mma" before it was called "mma", as I have been involved in martial arts for about 20 years. I trained mostly in "non-traditional" arts. All I can say is, it is silly to make such blanket statements as the above post. You have to look at the ATTRIBUTES of the fighters you are dealing with, not just their so-called skill set. Are these mma fighters you speak of in great condition (because they aren't always)? Is the boxer a naturally gifted athlete, or just someone with "heavy hands"?
You are going to tell me any mma fighter would "absolutely dominate" an in-his-prime Tyson, Benard Hopkins, Shane Mosely, or any number of other boxers in a street fight? Seriously, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Boxing is a HIGHLY effective form of self-defense for the streets. It may be limited in its arsenal, but on a concrete sidewalk or alleyway it isn't exactly the best idea to be fighting on the ground. Standing toe-to-toe with a professional boxer could cause you to get knocked out without you even seeing the punch coming. And having sparred with a couple of professional boxers, I know how hard they can be to even hit once, given their hand and head movement.
In an mma fight, the mma fighter clearly has the advantage. Logic should tell you that. In boxing, the boxer would have the advantage. Again, that is simple logic. But on the street where ANYTHING goes? It's the attributes of the fighters that will be a huge factor. A young Tyson in a street fight would bite CroCop's nuts off if he had to before punching Mirko harder than he has ever been hit in his life. I am not saying Fedor or CroCop wouldn't stand a chance...of course they would. They are tough guys with a lot of ring and cage experience. But never forget, UFC...PRIDE...BoreDog... IFL...these are all sporting organizations with rules and regulations. A streetfight IS NOT A SPORT AND THERE AREN'T ANY RULES.
That said, I'm done with this thread. These kinds of debates go in circles and most don't listen to those who know. >:(
I agree 100% with this statement. You clearly are an experienced fighter.
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This thread is retarded.
Floyd mayweather would destroy any of the hobos that are in the UFC in a pure boxing match. He makes actual boxers look like they are moving in molases.
If they would fight by UFC "rules" (and that term is a paradox in itself) obviously he would lose.
Exactly!!! I do think ufc guys are athletes but the other comments are true 100%.
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Boxers fight with only half of their bodies. Its as simple as that. It doesnt take much more than an IQ of 100 to understand the disadvantage. (Clearly many here fall into the lower end of the scale.)
The thread can be locked now.
D
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a sumo wrestler would destroy any mma fighters, then theyd take there wife or gay lover out for a nice meal, possibly skipping the foreplay and straight down to sumo sex action.
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I hope this fight happens, because the opinions seem to be 50/50 on who would win. Very interesting.
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Well I have read a lot of history and know Wrestling is the older of the two sports. Wrestling predates the Greeks, even before the Trojan war...boxing was a sport the Etruscans and Lombards partook in, mainly at funerals and such. IMO, in a wild world (and the old world was wild, whatever fantasy you may have of it's romantic setting) if you lose a wrestling match-type confrontation, you are dead. If one were to lose a boxing confrontation, he has simply been punched too hard and can retreat. I think Boxing represents the whole organized military culture of the Roman legion and beyond, whereas Wrestling represents the internal drive and discipline of the Hoplite and earlier fighters.
I was in a street fight once where I was really jacked at the time and the guy punched me in the head, didn't even faze me. His intent was battery with a deadly weapon (a baseball bat was later produced) but before the bat was given to him I wasn't really afraid of a punch and just planned on wrapping him up and slamming him into his truck, easiest way to end it in my mind. So yes punching may seem scary if too combatants AGREE to enter the conflict as such but when it comes down too it, a no holds barred type of fight would end up in submission and slamming movements, as well as punches.
Its like this documentary I saw once with a Dutch sensai. He said they always have knife fighting clinics that teach that a knife fight would be like a mini-sword fight. This would never happen, it would be a backstabbing attack OR one on defense to disarm and the other wildly slashing or thrusting.
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i realy cant see it bein too hard to pick up basic skills needed to for groundwork ( or gay groping as it should be called) especialy for a technichian like mayweather,,,,,, and no holds barred, 21yr old tryson would totaly destroy anyone, he grew up fighting on street corners before he honed his skills
you act like tyson was the 1st human to bite somebody.
if he can do it, so can others.
how about the russian fighters like vovchanchyn, fedor and his brother, etc. that grew up in russia during the communist period.
igor grew up in a village in urkraine, where he literally had to fight for his survival. much different than being a punk kid living in new york city.
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Hope you insecure boxing fans enjoy this video
Feel free to post videos of a boxer beating a MMA fighter in a fight where anything goes...if that ever happens!
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a sumo wrestler would destroy any mma fighters, then theyd take there wife or gay lover out for a nice meal, possibly skipping the foreplay and straight down to sumo sex action.
That played out in UFC 1 also. Teila Tuli got his face kicked in.
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the person with the stronger will to kill wins, and there's no gaurantee a top ranked boxer or a top ranked MMA fighter have that instinct.
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Boxing or any other form of fighting have little to do with the actual outcome. What will win the fight is a talented fighter and the best fighters are where the money is.
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Boxing or any other form of fighting have little to do with the actual outcome. What will win the fight is a talented fighter and the best fighters are where the money is.
That's rediculous, the money is better in boxing because it's been around longer and is better established. It's gotten too political, which is why there's so many good fighters that never get a shot at any title, and that turns off a lot of good fighters. The most talented fighters are where the steepest competition is, and that's Pride. Except Phil Baroni, I hate that guy oh so much, and he sucks balls at everything.
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That's rediculous, the money is better in boxing because it's been around longer and is better established. It's gotten too political, which is why there's so many good fighters that never get a shot at any title, and that turns off a lot of good fighters. The most talented fighters are where the steepest competition is, and that's Pride. Except Phil Baroni, I hate that guy oh so much, and he sucks balls at everything.
I can't stand to watch the "fighting" on TV anymore! If it is boxing or ufc they are all real bad at it. Only Meaweather is sorta entertaining but he is a lightweight and punches like a featherweight.
Only I could take this sport of fighting to the next level but I have chosen the peacefull path. Alas.
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I can't stand to watch the "fighting" on TV anymore! If it is boxing or ufc they are all real bad at it. Only Meaweather is sorta entertaining but he is a lightweight and punches like a featherweight.
Only I could take this sport of fighting to the next level but I have chosen the peacefull path. Alas.
There's only a couple fighters of anything, MMA, boxing, wrestling, what have you, that I'll watch. I much prefer competing to watching. All of it is boring to watch, seeing as I don't care to see anyone punching like a featherweight. Randy Couture, Fedor, Cro Cop, and Tyson reruns really are the only ones I have the patience to sit through.
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There's only a couple fighters of anything, MMA, boxing, wrestling, what have you, that I'll watch. I much prefer competing to watching. All of it is boring to watch, seeing as I don't care to see anyone punching like a featherweight. Randy Couture, Fedor, Cro Cop, and Tyson reruns really are the only ones I have the patience to sit through.
Tyson is always great to watch.
Also I like Remy Bonjasky from K-1. He is my height and does some crazy strike movements.
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Tyson is always great to watch.
Also I like Remy Bonjasky from K-1. He is my height and does some crazy strike movements.
I'm always up for a compiliation of submissions and knockouts though. I'd much rather just see the end result than watch the process.
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I'm always up for a compiliation of submissions and knockouts though. I'd much rather just see the end result than watch the process.
I see. The reason why they are using submissions is because their striking sucks. :P
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I see. The reason why they are using submissions is because their striking sucks. :P
Your point? If I get in a fight on the street and break the guy's neck it doesn't count because I didn't just punch him?
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Your point? If I get in a fight on the street and break the guy's neck it doesn't count because I didn't just punch him?
Counts as long as you where doing it standing up. Even this sounds wrong.. in the streets anything counts. In a sport their has to be strict rules and regulations.
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Counts as long as you where doing it standing up. Even this sounds wrong.. in the streets anything counts. In a sport their has to be strict rules and regulations.
Have you read the rules for UFC? They've got an ever increasing list. What's the point of staying standing up? That doesn't even accurately simulate real combat.
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Have you read the rules for UFC? They've got an ever increasing list. What's the point of staying standing up? That doesn't even accurately simulate real combat.
Real men fight on their feet. Scared men are on the ground.
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Real men fight on their feet. Scared men are on the ground.
Why do they stay on their feet when the more dangerous fight is always on the ground?
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Why do they stay on their feet when the more dangerous fight is always on the ground?
Same reason why men stand to pee and women sit. ;)
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Same reason why men stand to pee and women sit. ;)
Men pee standing up out of fear of any number of arm bars or ground and pound techniques? ???
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Hope you insecure boxing fans enjoy this video
Feel free to post videos of a boxer beating a MMA fighter in a fight where anything goes...if that ever happens!
i see your point, but please, royce gracie vses some punch drunk fool that's stupid or drunk enough to enter the octagon with a 12 oz boxing glove on ???
btw, i have discovered that any serious discussion re fighting on these boards is pointless and, i would suggest, anyone seriously discussing pbf's diss on ufc in the gossip section of getbig is either between the ages of 10 - 14 years of age or is mentally retarded.
pro fighting 101 sect 101 (A) subsection (i) paragraph 1: HYPE SELLS TICKETS
live, learn and be wise. ;)
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i see your point, but please, royce gracie vses some punch drunk fool that's stupid or drunk enough to enter the octagon with a 12 oz boxing glove on ???
btw, i have discovered that any serious discussion re fighting on these boards is pointless and, i would suggest, anyone seriously discussing pbf's diss on ufc in the gossip section of getbig is either between the ages of 10 - 14 years of age or is mentally retarded.
pro fighting 101 sect 101 (A) subsection (i) paragraph 1: HYPE SELLS TICKETS
live, learn and be wise. ;)
Or mind numbingly bored. :'(
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the only 3 fighters worth watching are Tyson, Williams Carter of K1, and Wanderlei Silva of Pride. All the guys in the UFC are a bunch of scrubs.
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the only 3 fighters worth watching are Tyson, Williams Carter of K1, and Wanderlei Silva of Pride. All the guys in the UFC are a bunch of scrubs.
PRIDE is now a part of the UFC, dumbass. And if you have been paying attention, the luster of your PRIDE heavyweight heroes are losing their shine. The UFC heavyweights have been kicking their asses. PRIDE was not as "superior" as you fanboys were deluding yourselves to believe. ;)
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PRIDE is now a part of the UFC, dumbass. And if you have been paying attention, the luster of your PRIDE heavyweight heroes are losing their shine. The UFC heavyweights have been kicking their asses. PRIDE was not as "superior" as you fanboys were deluding yourselves to believe. ;)
Please don't include Fedor in that statement. Fedor + elbows on the ground + cage = should be illegal.
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Please don't include Fedor in that statement. Fedor + elbows on the ground + cage = should be illegal.
You're likely right about that. ;)
But its time Fedor get's his ass in the cage and dukes it out with the UFC's best. Lot's of good heavyweight fights to be made. Arlovski, Gonzaga, Couture...Fedor should fight them all.
Fedor is the man, but if he continues to fight the best he will likely lose one day. NO ONE is invincible, and an eventual loss wouldn't take away from his greatness.
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You're likely right about that. ;)
But its time Fedor get's his ass in the cage and dukes it out with the UFC's best. Lot's of good heavyweight fights to be made. Arlovski, Gonzaga, Couture...Fedor should fight them all.
Fedor is the man, but if he continues to fight the best he will likely lose one day. NO ONE is invincible, and an eventual loss wouldn't take away from his greatness.
Arlovski is unbelievably overrated. His last fight against Fabricio Werdum was boring as crap. Gonzaga got lucky. Very, very lucky. Now, Captain America, can't argue that, he is The Man.
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Arlovski is unbelievably overrated. His last fight against Fabricio Werdum was boring as crap. Gonzaga got lucky. Very, very lucky. Now, Captain America, can't argue that, he is The Man.
Luck is the residue of preparation and design, my friend. ;) Taking CroCop down and busting Mirko's face up with multiple elbows followed by knocking him unconcious with a kick to the head ain't "luck", son. He literally whupped CroCop's ass. :P
You can say this or that guy is boring, overrated...whatever. But in any given fight one of these guys may beat Fedor. Maybe one of the guys I mentioned, maybe Brandon Vera...who knows? I'm just saying NO man is unbeatable in mma. 2007 is proving that.
You are touting Randy as "The Man", and I agree. But was he "The Man" or "The Old Man" in your eyes after his two straight losses to the Iceman? Tell the truth and don't be a phony.
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Luck is the residue of preparation and design, my friend. ;) Taking CroCop down and busting Mirko's face up with multiple elbows followed by knocking him unconcious with a kick to the head ain't "luck", son. He literally whupped CroCop's ass. :P
You can say this or that guy is boring, overrated...whatever. But in any given fight one of these guys may beat Fedor. Maybe one of the guys I mentioned, maybe Brandon Vera...who knows? I'm just saying NO man is unbeatable in mma. 2007 is proving that.
You are touting Randy as "The Man", and I agree. But was he "The Man" or "The Old Man" in your eyes after his two straight losses to the Iceman? Tell the truth and don't be a phony.
Actually, I didn't see those two fights until after I saw him rape Syvlia for the title. I've been a Couture fan since he won the title from Maurice Smith oh so long ago. Seeing his losses to Liddell made me think two things though, 1. there honestly is no shame in losing to Chick, and 2. people go through phases. He was saying he just wasn't in a good place at the time, and seeing how he came back, I'm incline to buy that. I think that's what happened to Cro Cop after the beat downs he's laid on people and the losses he's suffered to the likes of Fedor and Hoost, he must have been off. I just don't believe Gonzaga beat Mirko at anywhere near his best. As for Arlovski, he has one impressive win, and that was submitting out Tim Sylvia, the punch he landed being the most impressive part about that. Aside from that he's just hype and ego.
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this is the reality of fighting.
on any given day, any fighter can be beaten by another fighter.
mma is at a wonderful status at the moment and the biggest winners are fight fans.
it is very similar right now to what boxing was in the old days.
back when purses for boxing were much smaller, pro fighters had to fight often and whomever would get them the biggest return, which happened to be the best opponent. fans had the luxury of getting the best fights because:
1. fighters would fight often so their skills, conditioning (for fighting) and edge were always top flight.
2. fighters had to fight the best opponents and often otherwise the fans would turn away ie fighter starves or gets another line of work.
3. fans get to see WHO is the best of the best and their favourite fighters tested.
4. fighters wouldn't get 'soft' (lose killer instinct/edge) because the very thing that attracted them to fighting in the first place (hunger/survival) remained because they never made so much money that didn't have to fight. hw champ jack dempsey put it best when he said, "it's very hard to go running in the snow at 5:00 in the morning when you're wearing silk underwear.
this is a pertinent point in that dempsey was one of the first fighters to really make a lot of money from pugilism, which is a good reason why the guy didn't fight for 3 years, yet retained the hw title. the fans lapped up his anti hero killer style (much the same as tyson) and he got paid so much money that he just didn't have to fight. needless to say he came back a shell of his former self (soft) and tunney kicked his arse.
right now no mma fighter is making so much money or has so much control that they can totally pick and choose when and who they want to fight (although ortiz has tried to kick the till a bit with dana's blessing).
as mma gets bigger, white is going to lose his monopoly on the american market and competition is going to give fighters more control.
instead of being contained among a stable of fighters like dana has, individuals are going to get taken away by savvy promoters and managers just like boxing.
when that happens, these individuals are going to get managed to perfection and their super star status is going to afford them the ability to pick and choose opponents because fans are going to pay just to see them ie tyson was managed to perfection because cayton and jacobs manipulated the media with the mystique of this man killer from brooklyn (similar to dempsey) whilst picking opponents that tyson would look really good against. they would then send the videos of all these ko victories to boxing journos and voila tyson becomes a freak fighting machine.
don't get me wrong, tyson was a 'freak fighting machine' because he was brought along to perfection. i mean the way he was trained, managed and continually fighting, etc was a study in perfection. jews are absolutely brilliant at making money. don king is a baboon by comparison.
anyway, i digress. you get the point. mma is the future. the only obstacle i can see is legality, but then boxing had no problem getting around that.
history repeats. ;)
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The winner is based on the rules. If you throw in wooden swords, and some other weird shit, then the boxer's/mma fighter's chances of winning are going to go down because they don't train to fight under that set of rules.
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Fedor can defeat any boxer in the world! The same goes to Mirko!
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Guys, focusing on the subject of this thread, forget the tremendous multi-faceted striking and ground-fighting skills/arsenal of a current top-level MMA fighter...historically, a top-level SUBMISSION wrestler, or jiu-jitsu fighter, has FOR DECADES (and STILL) can finish off a boxer in short order (generally speaking)!
Hello...this "boxer versus wrestler" (in essence the same time-worn argument) has been going on for (at least) hundreds (thousands?) of years, actually. Thank God, since the early-90's and the advent of televised MMA fighting...the general public has finally been exposed to the truth!
Of course, Mayweather is just talking trash and has far more to lose than he has to gain by stepping in the ring with a top-level MMA fighter, in his weight-divison. But, that being said, of course, a boxer can always land a "lucky knock-out punch(es)" as the ground-game expert tries to close-the-gap and take the boxer to the ground (as Chuck Liddell has so often demonstrated!). But, this rarely, if ever, has been the case.
Personally, having been challenged by boxers over my many years of MMA practice, whenever boxers would challenge me to "get into the ring with them" they would then try to force me to put on a pair of boxing gloves, not allow any kicks at all (and certainly no low-line/leg kicking!) and, of course, disallow any takedowns/throwing or ground fighting...hilarious and pathetic...thus, really trying to stack-the-deck in their favor!!
However, in the '70's and '80's, back in the heyday of the Professional Karate Association (PKA) days of televised pro. kickboxing (with the likes of Joe Lewis, Bill Wallace, Brad Hefton, Jean-Yves Theriault, Rick Roufus, etc.), where all kicks/strikes were limited to above-the-waistline and no throwing or ground-fighting was allowed (of course!), a highly-skilled boxer had a good chance of beating a hard-art "karate-fighter"/kickboxer once he got inside kicking range.
However, as we all know, in ANY pairing of two fighters (regardless of the empty-handed fighting art they practice!), the outcome will ALWAYS depend upon the athletic skills of the INDIVIDUAL fighter and his real mastery of his particular fighting art!
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Of course, ancient PANKRATION was/is(?) the "absolute ultimate" empty-handed fighting art...
Pankration, as practiced in the ancient world, combined elements of both boxing (pygme/pygmachia) and wrestling (pale) to create a broad fighting sport similar to today's mixed martial arts. A match was won by submission of the opponent or if the opponent was incapacitated. A contestant could signal submission by raising his hand, but sometimes the only form of submission was unconsciousness or death. Joint locks and choke holds were common techniques of accomplishing this. In fact, there were only two rules: contestants were not allowed to gouge eyes or to bite. Grave, even permanent injuries were common as an accepted means of disabling the adversary: mainly breaking limbs, fingers or even the neck. Pankration bouts were quite brutal and sometimes life-threatening to the competitors. There were no weight divisions and no time limits. The fighting arena or "ring" was no more than twelve by fourteen feet to encourage close-quarter action. Referees were armed with stout rods or switches to enforce the rules against biting and gouging. The rules, however, were often broken by some participants who, realizing they were outclassed by a heavier and stronger foe, would resort to such measures to escape being seriously maimed. The contest itself continued uninterrupted until one of the combatants either surrendered, suffered unconsciousness, or was killed. Although knockouts were common, most pankration battles were decided on the ground where both striking and submission techniques would freely come into play. Pankratiasts were highly-skilled grapplers and were extremely effective in applying a variety of takedowns, chokes, and punishing joint locks. Strangulation was most feared during ground combat, and was the leading cause of death in matches. A fighter would immediately raise his arm in defeat once his opponent's forearm had secured a firm grip across the windpipe or carotid artery (though there are stories of fighters who chose to die rather than surrender.)
If there was no winner by sunset, the judges would declare Klimax and the fighters would start taking alternating undefended blows until one was defeate
The feats of the ancient pankratiasts became legendary in the annals of Greek athletics. Stories abound of past champions and masters who were considered invincible beings. Arrichion, Dioxippus and Polydamas are among the most highly-recognized names, their accomplishments defying the odds by besting multiple armed opponents in life-and-death combat.
Among pankration fighters, Dioxippus was the most famous. He won several Olympic games as no one dared challenge him, became friends with Alexander the Great and some accounts claim he defeated one of Alexander the Great's soldiers named Coragus (who fought with weapons and full armour), armed only with a club. Later, Dioxippus was framed of theft, which led him to commit suicide.
In the lead-up to the 2004 Athens Olympic Games, a modern version of pankration (not naked, usually wearing only shorts or a type of loin cloth, sometimes also T-shirts) was tipped as being a new sport in the Olympiad, especially due to its being an event in the ancient games. However, its application (along with that of inline skating) was not approved. Rumours were that it was rejected due to its inherently violent nature, even though the modern version is significantly less violent than the original, and like boxing and wrestling, also ancient Olympic sports, there is an international set of humane rules governing the modern sport.
Influence:
Because of Alexander the Great's impact on the Middle East and India, there is a belief by some that cultural exchange may have occurred in these civilizations. It has been suggested that the fighting systems of India were influenced by the invasions of Alexander, but this has not been substantiated by firm scientific evidence. It is still unknown what cultural influence he may have had on India. A thorough anthropological study of this history would be required.
Pankration's influence on modern culture is still debatable as the modern version of Pankration is not the original form as practiced by the ancient Greeks. The original ancient Greek form of Pankration was not fully transmitted to later generations due to the fall of the Greek and Roman civilizations and the subsequent European Dark Ages. Most modern versions of Pankration are influenced by Western boxing, catch and freestyle wrestling, ancient Greek artifacts (i.e. pottery, vases, sculptures, writings), as well as East Asian martial arts like karate, kung-fu, jujitsu, and muay thai.
Advocates for the sport have formed a US Pankration Team, and it is possible that a modern version of the sport could be introduced at the Olympics in the future.
Some modern pankration groups are seeking to re-introduce classical Hellenistic culture into contemporary martial arts (sport, athleticism, philosophy, ethics, and all round personal development). One such system of "contemporary" Pankration, known as "Mu Tau Pankration," was founded by Demetrios "Jim" Arvanitis in the latter half of the 20th Century. The first modern palaistra (school) was established in 1971.
Mr. Arvanitis has published three non-fictional books on modern pankration: MU TAU: The Modern Greek Karate, Todd & Honeywell, NY, 1979; MU TAU PANKRATION: Volume 1/Concepts and Skills of "All-Powers" Combat, Spartan Publications, Boston, MA, 1997; PANKRATION: The Traditional Greek Combat Sport and Modern Mixed Martial Art, Paladin Press, Boulder, CO, 2003.
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Personally, having been challenged by boxers over my many years of MMA practice, whenever boxers would challenge me to "get into the ring with them" they would then try to force me to put on a pair of boxing gloves, not allow any kicks at all (and certainly no low-line/leg kicking!) and, of course, disallow any takedowns/throwing or ground fighting...hilarious and pathetic...thus, really trying to stack-the-deck in their favor!!
How is it stacking the odds in their favor if you BOTH train striking skills?
The ONE common denominator between the two of you is hands, true?
If you were to allow kicks and takedowns, both skills he didn't train, then that would not be fair, true?
Why not just tough it out and go at it with the skills you BOTH do and see who the better man is?
I know why so you don't need to answer.....YOU WOULD BE KNOCKED OUT, hahaha.
Tough guy wants to fight someone with skills they don't train to see who the betetr man is, haha, give me a break,.
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Back on Topic.
MMA Fighter vs. Boxer? One of the big obstacles with this is that the MMA has SO many different rule sets based on league and/or location. Because the MMA has not created a universal "rule set" similar to boxing you could make several points either way.
For example a K1 or Pride fighter vs. a boxer might have trouble because they normally they don't spend lots of time on the ground. Boxers in general are faster, know how to throw combos and have greater punching power. A boxer would hold the advantage in this case.
The UFC are wrestlers that attempt to box or kickbox. Dana White is going to back his guys no matter what but I don’t think I have every seen a UFC fighter throw a 1-2-3 combination. Sure they’ll throw a haymaker like it’s going out of style and might try a jab here or there but most UFC guys swing for the fences and miss. They cannot take a punch in the way a boxer does and are most often looking to go to the ground. A boxer would have a hard time fighting a UFC fighter because they don't like to box they like to wrestle. Go ahead and disagree, it’s true.
There is one thing however that will get into the way. EGO. If I were a professional MMA fighter the last thing I would want to hear is that I don't know how to punch or trade punches I have to fight on the ground. It is that Ego that the UFC is full of. Just watch The Ultimate Fighter reality show on Spike. These guys are very immature people with Egos that are a little too big.
It is this Ego that would be the problem. There is no question that Chuck Liddell would rather trade punches then take a fight to the ground. Now he CAN take a fight to the ground but he prefers the knockout. You throw him in the ring with Jean-Marc Mormeck ( Current WBA Cruiserweight Champion ) Chuck might want to trade shots and if he does he'll get KO'd.
I think that out of 10 fights it would be 5 towards MMA and 5 towards boxers. Any MMA guy that wants to try to stand up and trade shots will go down. If the MMA guy takes the fight to the ground if it's not stood back up, then they would get the win.
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Back on Topic.
MMA Fighter vs. Boxer? One of the big obstacles with this is that the MMA has SO many different rule sets based on league and/or location. Because the MMA has not created a universal "rule set" similar to boxing you could make several points either way.
For example a K1 or Pride fighter vs. a boxer might have trouble because they normally they don't spend lots of time on the ground. Boxers in general are faster, know how to throw combos and have greater punching power. A boxer would hold the advantage in this case.
The UFC are wrestlers that attempt to box or kickbox. Dana White is going to back his guys no matter what but I don’t think I have every seen a UFC fighter throw a 1-2-3 combination. Sure they’ll throw a haymaker like it’s going out of style and might try a jab here or there but most UFC guys swing for the fences and miss. They cannot take a punch in the way a boxer does and are most often looking to go to the ground. A boxer would have a hard time fighting a UFC fighter because they don't like to box they like to wrestle. Go ahead and disagree, it’s true.
There is one thing however that will get into the way. EGO. If I were a professional MMA fighter the last thing I would want to hear is that I don't know how to punch or trade punches I have to fight on the ground. It is that Ego that the UFC is full of. Just watch The Ultimate Fighter reality show on Spike. These guys are very immature people with Egos that are a little too big.
It is this Ego that would be the problem. There is no question that Chuck Liddell would rather trade punches then take a fight to the ground. Now he CAN take a fight to the ground but he prefers the knockout. You throw him in the ring with Jean-Marc Mormeck ( Current WBA Cruiserweight Champion ) Chuck might want to trade shots and if he does he'll get KO'd.
I think that out of 10 fights it would be 5 towards MMA and 5 towards boxers. Any MMA guy that wants to try to stand up and trade shots will go down. If the MMA guy takes the fight to the ground if it's not stood back up, then they would get the win.
IF THERE EVER WAS A cross promotion that had boxing versus MMA under MMA unified rules, the MMA fighter would not stand. (Especially Zuffa fighters) They will be ordered to make an example of boxing and boxers to win more market share. So you'd see an exceptionally quick shot, passing what ever guard the boxer could put up, mount, then a serious case of GNP. Fight over.
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How is it stacking the odds in their favor if you BOTH train striking skills?
The ONE common denominator between the two of you is hands, true?
If you were to allow kicks and takedowns, both skills he didn't train, then that would not be fair, true?
Why not just tough it out and go at it with the skills you BOTH do and see who the better man is?
I know why so you don't need to answer.....YOU WOULD BE KNOCKED OUT, hahaha.
Tough guy wants to fight someone with skills they don't train to see who the betetr man is, haha, give me a break,.
Yeah, the "common denominator" is hands...but, the boxer is far better at strictly punching skills than an MMA fighter in his one-dimensional sport. Of course, as we all know, "punching" (i.e. jab, cross, hook, and uppercut) is a very LIMITED use of the hands (e.g. totally ignoring hand strikes such as palm-heels, hammer-fists, knife-hand, finger thrusts/jabs, back-fists, spinning back-fists, etc., etc...which are all "illegal" in boxing), not to mention a series of elbow strikes.
Hello... the boxers I was referring to wanted to "stack the deck" into strictly their comfort zone...so, similarily, it was only natural for me to try to stay in my "comfort zones" as well...but, what the hell does ANY of this have to do with someone trying to be a "tough guy"!???
Back on the subject, if a martial-artist could use just/ONLY his full-range of closed/open HAND strikes along with elbow strikes (forget all the knee/kicking/head strikes, throws, takedowns, clinching, and grappling techniques!), he STILL should be able to best strictly a boxer/puncher...again, IF the two fighters are at a comparable skill-level.
How I would love to see trash-talking Mayweather square-off against a top-ranked Muay Thai fighter in his bwt. class (no ground-fighting skills required!)!
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Yes but this thread is champs vs champs. Unfortunately for the boxer, it is one sided, not much to do when your on your back getting stommped in the face and soccer kicked in the head.
a current champ in mma is Matt Serra... Put mayweather in the ring with this little punk and Serra would be knocked the fuk out within 30 seconds...The guy barely beat some of the guys in tuff, who are absolute nobodies...
Chuck Liddel is good in Mma because he knocks people out and has great take down defense...But lets be real Chuck can't box for shit compared to a champian boxer....But that is really all he does in the ring...If Liddel with his shitty boxing can knock people out with no problem, what do you think a highly trained athlete would do to guys like Serra or hughes ect...
now take a guy like mayweather and pull the big boxing gloves off and his hand speed would be that much more deadly...These top boxers are true athletes...Give them a couple of months to learn a few things in the MMa ring and they would be deadly...
Matt Serra a year ago was an absolute freak'n bum....Hardly a highly trained athlete..Now he is a world champ(what a joke)...These light boxers could run away from these fools all day long in the ring and pick them apart at will...
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Fedor can defeat any boxer in the world! The same goes to Mirko!
i agree...but mayweather is not a heavy weight...stick a champian boxer in the middles or under with a champian mma fighter(ala a matt serra)who lived in a dumster a year ago and what do you think really would happen?
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a current champ in mma is Matt Serra... Put mayweather in the ring with this little punk and Serra would be knocked the fuk out within 30 seconds...The guy barely beat some of the guys in tuff, who are absolute nobodies...
Chuck Liddel is good in Mma because he knocks people out and has great take down defense...But lets be real Chuck can't box for shit compared to a champian boxer....But that is really all he does in the ring...If Liddel with his shitty boxing can knock people out with no problem, what do you think a highly trained athlete would do to guys like Serra or hughes ect...
now take a guy like mayweather and pull the big boxing gloves off and his hand speed would be that much more deadly...These top boxers are true athletes...Give them a couple of months to learn a few things in the MMa ring and they would be deadly...
Matt Serra a year ago was an absolute freak'n bum....Hardly a highly trained athlete..Now he is a world champ(what a joke)...These light boxers could run away from these fools all day long in the ring and pick them apart at will...
::) Serra was the first American to receive a black belt in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and has been a champion in bjj competition. It took him many years to receive that rank. He is a highly skilled athlete.
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::) Serra was the first American to receive a black belt in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and has been a champion in bjj competition. It took him many years to receive that rank. He is a highly skilled athlete.
Actually, Matt is the first Renzo Gracie American black belt. The first American bjj black belt is Craig Kukuk, both were instructors of mine at one time.
Matt is a freak on the mat. He would take Mayweather down at the ankles and submit him in less than a minute. So would I, for that matter.
People make these boxers out to be Gods. They're good at boxing. That's it. Most of the guys in the heavyweight division are fat slobs who can hit. Get these guys on the ground, if they don't know grappling, they're toast.
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Yeah, the "common denominator" is hands...but, the boxer is far better at strictly punching skills than an MMA fighter in his one-dimensional sport. Of course, as we all know, "punching" (i.e. jab, cross, hook, and uppercut) is a very LIMITED use of the hands (e.g. totally ignoring hand strikes such as palm-heels, hammer-fists, knife-hand, finger thrusts/jabs, back-fists, spinning back-fists, etc., etc...which are all "illegal" in boxing), not to mention a series of elbow strikes.
Hello... the boxers I was referring to wanted to "stack the deck" into strictly their comfort zone...so, similarily, it was only natural for me to try to stay in my "comfort zones" as well...but, what the hell does ANY of this have to do with someone trying to be a "tough guy"!???
Back on the subject, if a martial-artist could use just/ONLY his full-range of closed/open HAND strikes along with elbow strikes (forget all the knee/kicking/head strikes, throws, takedowns, clinching, and grappling techniques!), he STILL should be able to best strictly a boxer/puncher...again, IF the two fighters are at a comparable skill-level.
How I would love to see trash-talking Mayweather square-off against a top-ranked Muay Thai fighter in his bwt. class (no ground-fighting skills required!)!
Hey Richard... yeah, the tough guy comment wasn't necessary, my apologies.
Either way, this discussion isn't really fair unless we're just talking skills that both guy train.
can a pitcher hit like a outfielder? They're both pros but you know the difference.
Here you have boxers that never even trained for any of these other skills, but you also have mma guys that train standup hours each day as do boxers.
Why not then put them in a ring and throw hands to see what's up?
Muay thai would be better compared to k1, I believe.
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this debate could go on forever.
get a guy that has everything tyson had in standup and everything fedor/prime kerr has on ground and you have a guy that destroys EVERYONE.
obviously if you have access to more weapons ie mma, you are at an advantage in mma, but what has to be considered here is the other factors that make up a great fighter ie athleticism, power, speed, movement, courage, durability, chin and, most importantly, that x factor that sees guys win big when everything is stacked against them on paper.
fighting is like no other sport on earth. it has got everything a sport should have, but there is an aspect to it that is beyond anything that can be tought in the gym.
i don't know how many of you guys actually compete but, even if you go to a gym/studio/club where guys do compete, you have no doubt observed the many many guys that have been there for years, look great in training, sparring, etc but either never fight or get killed when they do.
this is the edge that the best pro boxers currently have.
they have a legacy of many years of the best possible genetic pool. you are talking about guys that grow up on the mean streets of brooklyn, philadelphia, etc and, not only survive street life but survive brutal training and sparring with guys in the same circumstance. only the toughest, most focused of the genetic elite rise to the top and become champion boxers.
mma competition is a baby by comparison and, let's face it, most of the guys in mma clubs are from affluent backgrounds and are there more for the status ('i do mma man') than anything. it is really pathetic actually and when/if they grow up they will realise how stupid they were. they are just a pain in the arse and just get in the way of the competitors most of the time. they want the best of both worlds, they want to have the security and comfort of wealth and be a 'killer' aswell ::).
this is exactly why they will never be truly great fighters because you just can't have both. you can be good, but you will never have that x factor that only comes from survival.
at this time, unfortunately, the only 'boxers' that have competed in ufc, etc have been 'has beens' or 'never weres'. some may have decent records, but that's a boxing trait also. just about anyone can pay for a decent record in boxing eg. mickey rourke.
there is no doubt in my mind that someone like pbf has the tools to keep matt at bay for a while, but sooner or later serra will get close and then it's over very quickly for pbf, and with 5 minute rounds that's going to be more sooner than later. however, imo, the right matchups can favour the boxer.
it's just not cut and dry at the moment for the above reasons.
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they have a legacy of many years of the best possible genetic pool. you are talking about guys that grow up on the mean streets of brooklyn, philadelphia, etc and, not only survive street life but survive brutal training and sparring with guys in the same circumstance. only the toughest, most focused of the genetic elite rise to the top and become champion boxers.
While this is true, if one of these guys gets taken down and is on the wrong end of a rear naked, socio-economic background doesn't mean sh!t, they're going beddy bye.
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While this is true, if one of these guys gets taken down and is on the wrong end of a rear naked, socio-economic background doesn't mean sh!t, they're going beddy bye.
But don't you know, in real life everyone only punches, and keeps it above the belt. :D
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While this is true, if one of these guys gets taken down and is on the wrong end of a rear naked, socio-economic background doesn't mean sh!t, they're going beddy bye.
ABSOLUTELY!
as the money and competition goes up for mma, mma WILL be the superior fighter 100% of the time becaue the genetic elite pro fighter will always go for the money first.
anyone that says that professional fighting isn't about money is either lying or has had a sheltered life.
btw, canada, whatever skills i have in empty hand, on the street i am ALWAYS going to use the best weapons at my disposal. if that be a brick, bat, blade or teeth, so be it. i'm fucked anyway if i fight on the street so whatever.
not to say that street fighting is smart (it's stupid) but it seems that this is where this thread is heading.
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The fact is that MMA "fighters" are good wrestlers. Go back and read your own threads. In every instance it's always the same thing "the MMA guy would just take your boxer to the ground".
It sounds like there is no MIX in Mixed Martial Arts. The answer is the same. Well I can't trade punches so I'll just take him to the ground and win that way.
However if you put a MMA guy into the ring with an Olympic Wrestler he would have to trade punches cause they aren't top level wrestlers. (Some might have been good high school wrestlers, but again it's high school).
You can't say that boxers can only punch when it's clear that an MMA fighter can only wrestle, sometimes.
An MMA fighter can fight in several styles only with other MMA fighters. If any MMA fighter were to compete in an event vs a professional of one particular style (boxing, wrestling, kick boxing, etc.) they would have trouble capturing victory.
MMA fighters clearly have to be in a venue where rules allow several forms of "fighting" to take place at once. It is this advantage on changing styles that capture a greater fan base and keep the odds of winning for any particular fighter high because one style might or might not make an appearance.
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The fact is that MMA "fighters" are good wrestlers. Go back and read your own threads. In every instance it's always the same thing "the MMA guy would just take your boxer to the ground".
It sounds like there is no MIX in Mixed Martial Arts. The answer is the same. Well I can't trade punches so I'll just take him to the ground and win that way.
However if you put a MMA guy into the ring with an Olympic Wrestler he would have to trade punches cause they aren't top level wrestlers. (Some might have been good high school wrestlers, but again it's high school).
You can't say that boxers can only punch when it's clear that an MMA fighter can only wrestle, sometimes.
An MMA fighter can fight in several styles only with other MMA fighters. If any MMA fighter were to compete in an event vs a professional of one particular style (boxing, wrestling, kick boxing, etc.) they would have trouble capturing victory.
MMA fighters clearly have to be in a venue where rules allow several forms of "fighting" to take place at once. It is this advantage on changing styles that capture a greater fan base and keep the odds of winning for any particular fighter high because one style might or might not make an appearance.
no one is suggesting that a high level mma fighter beats a high level boxer at boxing. the question is vice versa.
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no one is suggesting that a high level mma fighter beats a high level boxer at boxing. the question is vice versa.
That's like saying that a high level golfer can't beat an amateur bowler at bowling. It's a different sport.
A MMA fighter can beat a boxer in the MMA ring but not a boxing ring.
A MMA fighter can beat a wrestler in the MMA ring but not a wrestling mat.
A MMA fighter can beat a kickboxer in the MMA ring but not a kickboxing ring. (Example Cro Cop)
When people argue on MMA vs boxer it's always with MMA rules.
Here's are some questions : Would a MMA fighter beat a boxer if you were allowed to take down but can't hit on the ground? Is the boxer wearing the 2 oz. gloves or boxing gloves? Is the fight in a ring with ropes or the octagon with a fence?
No one is asking these questions before making the comparison. That's my point. I really respect all forms of "fighting" but you can't compare two sports that are so different.
A fight between a boxer and a MMA fighter will never happen. Would you want to fight under someone else's rules in their house? No.
A boxer should never fight in a MMA fight cause he would lose and a MMA fighter should never fight in a boxing match cause he would lose.
It's two different sports.
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That's like saying that a high level golfer can't beat an amateur bowler at bowling. It's a different sport.
A MMA fighter can beat a boxer in the MMA ring but not a boxing ring.
A MMA fighter can beat a wrestler in the MMA ring but not a wrestling mat.
A MMA fighter can beat a kickboxer in the MMA ring but not a kickboxing ring. (Example Cro Cop)
When people argue on MMA vs boxer it's always with MMA rules.
Here's are some questions : Would a MMA fighter beat a boxer if you were allowed to take down but can't hit on the ground? Is the boxer wearing the 2 oz. gloves or boxing gloves? Is the fight in a ring with ropes or the octagon with a fence?
No one is asking these questions before making the comparison. That's my point. I really respect all forms of "fighting" but you can't compare two sports that are so different.
A fight between a boxer and a MMA fighter will never happen. Would you want to fight under someone else's rules in their house? No.
A boxer should never fight in a MMA fight cause he would lose and a MMA fighter should never fight in a boxing match cause he would lose.
It's two different sports.
true, but i think the angle being taken is 'who is the ultimate fighter?' as in if there were no rules.
of course the limiting factor that people don't seem to realise is that mma has got rules and they are significant in that they remove a lot of the real danger of a 'no rules contest'.
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Boxing is feeling the heat from the public's growing interest in the UFC. That's all this is about. At the rate interest in growing the day is coming where UFC fights will be pulling in more money than boxing, UFC fighters will be paid more and they're just trying to change that direction. This latest fight of Mayweather/de la hoya's has got to be one of the most highly promoted matches ever? The commercials are constant, not something they use to have to do. It doesn't surprise me they have guys out there trying to beef up boxers as Superior fighters. Matching a good UFC fighter with a good Boxer is like matching a good Boxer with a Bowler :P They know it won't happen so they're free to go after building a false image of boxers being better fighters.
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no one is suggesting that a high level mma fighter beats a high level boxer at boxing. the question is vice versa.
Beast, I don't even think that's a question.
Who would ever say a boxer can beat a high level wrestler at wrestling or a high level mma guy with mma rules.
My thing is simple, however. If you want to compatre true ability's then just let them go with the skills they both developed...and today mma is a greater standup game then it was ten years ago.
John L sullivan, the old days, just let them throw hands, since they both do that, and the best man will prevale.
How can anyone think a top level, fully rounded mma guy would get beaten by a boxer in a no rules fight? It's pretty ridiculous. If they developed other skills to that level then the boxer would win, but without training it's not even a good discussion.
Boxing is clearly the more skilled game as is evident by the number of years it takes to excell at it compared to mma. 5 yeasr and some guys are champs at todays mma....That will never happen ion top level boxing.
Watch Delahoya/mayweather on hbo, the countdownm each week and you will see skill far exceeded, not even in the same ball park, as mma guys.
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That's like saying that a high level golfer can't beat an amateur bowler at bowling. It's a different sport.
A MMA fighter can beat a boxer in the MMA ring but not a boxing ring.
A MMA fighter can beat a wrestler in the MMA ring but not a wrestling mat.
A MMA fighter can beat a kickboxer in the MMA ring but not a kickboxing ring. (Example Cro Cop)
When people argue on MMA vs boxer it's always with MMA rules.
Here's are some questions : Would a MMA fighter beat a boxer if you were allowed to take down but can't hit on the ground? Is the boxer wearing the 2 oz. gloves or boxing gloves? Is the fight in a ring with ropes or the octagon with a fence?
No one is asking these questions before making the comparison. That's my point. I really respect all forms of "fighting" but you can't compare two sports that are so different.
A fight between a boxer and a MMA fighter will never happen. Would you want to fight under someone else's rules in their house? No.
A boxer should never fight in a MMA fight cause he would lose and a MMA fighter should never fight in a boxing match cause he would lose.
It's two different sports.
Controversey arose from PBF saying that UFC fighters aint chit. Reality is, HE KNEW that he wasn't going to fight an MMA fighter under MMA rules. He is suggesting they fight under boxing rules, which of course, the boxer would win. With NO TAKEDOWN defense to speak of, he like all other boxers would get off a flicking jab only to be backed up to the fence, and GNPed, then submitted.
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the problem with this argument is that everyone assumes that they're all separate sports. there are many things you can do in MMA that you can't do in boxing, but as far as i know anything you can do in a boxing ring can be done in the cage.
the question is not who can beat who under whose rules. the question is who can beat who under NO rules, or rules that encompass everything both would like to do.
forcing an MMA fighter to box only is limiting him. forcing a boxer to fight MMA is allowing more. put in an arena and allowing both the boxer and the MMA fighter to use all the tools they have, the MMA fighter would simply annihilate the boxer. why? he has more to work with. it's simple logic.
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Of course, ancient PANKRATION was/is(?) the "absolute ultimate" empty-handed fighting art...
Pankration, as practiced in the ancient world, combined elements of both boxing (pygme/pygmachia) and wrestling (pale) to create a broad fighting sport similar to today's mixed martial arts. A match was won by submission of the opponent or if the opponent was incapacitated. A contestant could signal submission by raising his hand, but sometimes the only form of submission was unconsciousness or death. Joint locks and choke holds were common techniques of accomplishing this. In fact, there were only two rules: contestants were not allowed to gouge eyes or to bite. Grave, even permanent injuries were common as an accepted means of disabling the adversary: mainly breaking limbs, fingers or even the neck. Pankration bouts were quite brutal and sometimes life-threatening to the competitors. There were no weight divisions and no time limits. The fighting arena or "ring" was no more than twelve by fourteen feet to encourage close-quarter action. Referees were armed with stout rods or switches to enforce the rules against biting and gouging. The rules, however, were often broken by some participants who, realizing they were outclassed by a heavier and stronger foe, would resort to such measures to escape being seriously maimed. The contest itself continued uninterrupted until one of the combatants either surrendered, suffered unconsciousness, or was killed. Although knockouts were common, most pankration battles were decided on the ground where both striking and submission techniques would freely come into play. Pankratiasts were highly-skilled grapplers and were extremely effective in applying a variety of takedowns, chokes, and punishing joint locks. Strangulation was most feared during ground combat, and was the leading cause of death in matches. A fighter would immediately raise his arm in defeat once his opponent's forearm had secured a firm grip across the windpipe or carotid artery (though there are stories of fighters who chose to die rather than surrender.)
If there was no winner by sunset, the judges would declare Klimax and the fighters would start taking alternating undefended blows until one was defeate
The feats of the ancient pankratiasts became legendary in the annals of Greek athletics. Stories abound of past champions and masters who were considered invincible beings. Arrichion, Dioxippus and Polydamas are among the most highly-recognized names, their accomplishments defying the odds by besting multiple armed opponents in life-and-death combat.
Among pankration fighters, Dioxippus was the most famous. He won several Olympic games as no one dared challenge him, became friends with Alexander the Great and some accounts claim he defeated one of Alexander the Great's soldiers named Coragus (who fought with weapons and full armour), armed only with a club. Later, Dioxippus was framed of theft, which led him to commit suicide.
In the lead-up to the 2004 Athens Olympic Games, a modern version of pankration (not naked, usually wearing only shorts or a type of loin cloth, sometimes also T-shirts) was tipped as being a new sport in the Olympiad, especially due to its being an event in the ancient games. However, its application (along with that of inline skating) was not approved. Rumours were that it was rejected due to its inherently violent nature, even though the modern version is significantly less violent than the original, and like boxing and wrestling, also ancient Olympic sports, there is an international set of humane rules governing the modern sport.
Influence:
Because of Alexander the Great's impact on the Middle East and India, there is a belief by some that cultural exchange may have occurred in these civilizations. It has been suggested that the fighting systems of India were influenced by the invasions of Alexander, but this has not been substantiated by firm scientific evidence. It is still unknown what cultural influence he may have had on India. A thorough anthropological study of this history would be required.
Pankration's influence on modern culture is still debatable as the modern version of Pankration is not the original form as practiced by the ancient Greeks. The original ancient Greek form of Pankration was not fully transmitted to later generations due to the fall of the Greek and Roman civilizations and the subsequent European Dark Ages. Most modern versions of Pankration are influenced by Western boxing, catch and freestyle wrestling, ancient Greek artifacts (i.e. pottery, vases, sculptures, writings), as well as East Asian martial arts like karate, kung-fu, jujitsu, and muay thai.
Advocates for the sport have formed a US Pankration Team, and it is possible that a modern version of the sport could be introduced at the Olympics in the future.
Some modern pankration groups are seeking to re-introduce classical Hellenistic culture into contemporary martial arts (sport, athleticism, philosophy, ethics, and all round personal development). One such system of "contemporary" Pankration, known as "Mu Tau Pankration," was founded by Demetrios "Jim" Arvanitis in the latter half of the 20th Century. The first modern palaistra (school) was established in 1971.
Mr. Arvanitis has published three non-fictional books on modern pankration: MU TAU: The Modern Greek Karate, Todd & Honeywell, NY, 1979; MU TAU PANKRATION: Volume 1/Concepts and Skills of "All-Powers" Combat, Spartan Publications, Boston, MA, 1997; PANKRATION: The Traditional Greek Combat Sport and Modern Mixed Martial Art, Paladin Press, Boulder, CO, 2003.
Thank you, very informative post. I always try to look at history from outside my owned biased "lens" so to speak and cast it in a more neutral setting. Certainly combat, even to the death, was more of a feasable alternative than all the other ills that beset a man or woman in these earlier times. One great book I would suggest reading, although short, is the 1950's classic "For those about to die" which was the cutting edge in gladiatorial history of the time. Much of "Gladiator" was borrowed from it. A gladiator fought maybe 4 or 5 times a year once he was renowned and even a loser stood maybe a 20% chance of actually bieng killed so the fighting game was pretty good back in the day compared to the common man's woes.
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the problem with this argument is that everyone assumes that they're all separate sports. there are many things you can do in MMA that you can't do in boxing, but as far as i know anything you can do in a boxing ring can be done in the cage.
the question is not who can beat who under whose rules. the question is who can beat who under NO rules, or rules that encompass everything both would like to do.
forcing an MMA fighter to box only is limiting him. forcing a boxer to fight MMA is allowing more. put in an arena and allowing both the boxer and the MMA fighter to use all the tools they have, the MMA fighter would simply annihilate the boxer. why? he has more to work with. it's simple logic.
This is the EXACT POINT. An MMA fighter wins under no rules. IF a big name boxer fought under unified MMA rules EVERYONE would see that.
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This is the EXACT POINT. An MMA fighter wins under no rules. IF a big name boxer fought under unified MMA rules EVERYONE would see that.
it's kinda stupid to look at it any other way, really. hell that's why MMA is so popular, because boxing is a weird combination of brawling and dumb rules. MMA lets guys use everything at their disposal to knock out or submit the opponent.
people who argue on the side of boxers are sorta like the brits getting all pissy in the revolutionary war because those dang Americans wouldn't stand in lines out in the open field like "civilized" soldiers. sure the british would win if that was the case, but that's dumb. use ALL your resources.
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Hey Richard... yeah, the tough guy comment wasn't necessary, my apologies.
Either way, this discussion isn't really fair unless we're just talking skills that both guy train.
can a pitcher hit like a outfielder? They're both pros but you know the difference.
Here you have boxers that never even trained for any of these other skills, but you also have mma guys that train standup hours each day as do boxers.
Why not then put them in a ring and throw hands to see what's up?
Muay thai would be better compared to k1, I believe.
Legbreaker, in my "long 40+ year MMA journey" struggling to learn the MANY fascinating martial-arts disciplines...progressin g through golden gloves boxing (uhhh...by the way, getting "knocked out/down" several times!), intercollegiate freestyle wrestling, judo, additional "hard-arts" (TKD, Karate, Kung-Fu, JKD), military CCC/hand-to-hand-combat), and finally GJJ...I've realized that you never master an art, and no matter how good you think you are there is always (of course!) someone better. Was it Bruce Lee who is supposed to have said (words to the effect), "the goal it is not in reaching the destination, but in persevering to make the journey"!?
For the "average joe" like myself working a regular job, rearing children, etc., just struggling to stay-in-shape, and finding time to only practice the MMA approx. 4 hours a week, I learned long ago that to enter competiton was really dangerous/unhealthy when you are competing against guys who compete for a living and can train some 8 hrs. a day 6-7 days a week!
You can only hope and pray that if you are ever faced with a real life-and-death situation that you will have developed enough MMA skills to successfully defend yourself adequately to avoid serious injury or death!
I imagine the ancient MMA art of Greek Pankration was the closest thing to REAL life-and-death empty-handed MMA combat and, if you added eye-strikes/gouging, biting, groin attacks w/o a cup, head butts, etc....then you have all of the aspects of true military empty-handed close-quarter combat!? Of course, this is considerably removed from today's Pride/UFC/KoC MMA sporting competition rules.
As mentioned, the argument/debate between the relative superiority of the strictly submission wrestler vs. boxer has gone on for centuries and I have personally witnessed (competed-in) several mixed-matches. I say this because my intercollegiate wrestling team competed in the same gym (at similar times) with our intercollegiate boxing team and we had several mixed challenge matches! It's just that the boxers always wanted us to wear boxing gloves and step in the ring with them, and we wrestlers, in turn, wanted them to step on the mat with us and let us remain bare-handed...looking back though, it was a lot of fun and quite a learning experience.
Usually the pure submission/freestyle wrestler was successful in closing the gap with a successful clinch and throw, or a successful shoot for a takedown. Occasionally, the boxer would land a successful combo. and knockout his wrestling-trained opponent in the wrestler's unsuccessful attempt to close the gap. As we know, some people "can take a punch" and some can't! Once again, it depends upon the individual's martial-arts skills and his ability to take-a-punch.
I'll tell you that in my observations/experiences, the guys who could really "take out" the boxers were the old-school submission professional wrestlers who were REALLY good at covering-up and blocking/trapping a boxers' punches while simultaneously closing-the-gap with a clinch/shoot, getting the boxer quickly on the ground, and applying the chokes/bars/locks/etc. in short order to submit them!
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Legbreaker, in my "long 40+ year MMA journey" struggling to learn the MANY fascinating martial-arts disciplines...progressin g through golden gloves boxing (uhhh...by the way, getting "knocked out/down" several times!), intercollegiate freestyle wrestling, judo, additional "hard-arts" (TKD, Karate, Kung-Fu, JKD), military CCC/hand-to-hand-combat), and finally GJJ...I've realized that you never master an art, and no matter how good you think you are there is always (of course!) someone better. Was it Bruce Lee who is supposed to have said (words to the effect), "the goal it is not in reaching the destination, but in persevering to make the journey"!?
For the "average joe" like myself working a regular job, rearing children, etc., just struggling to stay-in-shape, and finding time to only practice the MMA approx. 4 hours a week, I learned long ago that to enter competiton was really dangerous/unhealthy when you are competing against guys who compete for a living and can train some 8 hrs. a day 6-7 days a week!
You can only hope and pray that if you are ever faced with a real life-and-death situation that you will have developed enough MMA skills to successfully defend yourself adequately to avoid serious injury or death!
I imagine the ancient MMA art of Greek Pankration was the closest thing to REAL life-and-death empty-handed MMA combat and, if you added eye-strikes/gouging, biting, groin attacks w/o a cup, head butts, etc....then you have all of the aspects of true military empty-handed close-quarter combat!? Of course, this is considerably removed from today's Pride/UFC MMA sporting competition rules.
As mentioned, the argument/debate between the relative superiority of the strictly submission wrestler vs. boxer has gone on for centuries and I have personally witnessed (competed-in) several mixed-matches. I say this because my intercollegiate wrestling team competed in the same gym (at similar times) with our intercollegiate boxing team and we had several mixed challenge matches! It's just that the boxers always wanted us to wear boxing gloves and step in the ring with them, and we wrestlers, in turn, wanted them to step on the mat with us and let us remain bare-handed...looking back though, it was a lot of fun and quite a learning experience.
Usually the pure submission/freestyle wrestler was successful in closing the gap with a successful clinch and throw, or a successful shoot for a takedown. Occasionally, the boxer would land a successful combo. and knockout his wrestling-trained opponent in the wrestler's unsuccessful attempt to close the gap. As we know, some people "can take a punch" and some can't! Once again, it depends upon the individual's martial-arts skills and his ability to take-a-punch.
I'll tell you that in my observations/experiences, the guys who could really "take out" the boxers were the old-school submission professional wrestlers who were REALLY good at covering-up and blocking/trapping a boxers' punches while simultaneously closing-the-gap with a clinch/shoot, getting the boxer quickly on the ground, and applying the chokes/bars/locks/etc. in short order to submit them!
Uh Oh, someone will be bringing up the name of Billie Robinson and Karl Gotch soon.
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Good stuff, Richard.
American B, I love Karl Gotch and have his incredible bodyweight combat training video, which is incredible. I use many of his training techniques and it's helped tremendously in my own pro wrestling training.
have you ever watched this training dvd?
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Good stuff, Richard.
American B, I love Karl Gotch and have his incredible bodyweight combat training video, which is incredible. I use many of his training techniques and it's helped tremendously in my own pro wrestling training.
have you ever watched this training dvd?
I believe you can just buy some of Matt Furey's stuff. He is a believer in the bodyweight exercises of Gotch. I have to say we used them at my school for pre-training conditioning exercises and they are pretty good. However, unlike Furey I have no interest in abandoning weight training.
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I believe you can just buy some of Matt Furey's stuff. He is a believer in the bodyweight exercises of Gotch. I have to say we used them at my school for pre-training conditioning exercises and they are pretty good. However, unlike Furey I have no interest in abandoning weight training.
I agree Benny, ya gotta keep the weight lifting in there as well. That's great info though I'll check it out.
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I agree Benny, ya gotta keep the weight lifting in there as well. That's great info though I'll check it out.
My own personal workouts have been a combination of bodyweight exercises, sports specific stuff (I love JC Santana, Rhadi Ferguson's stuff) and olympic lifts with very little specialty stuff. Cleans, squats, deadlifts, rows. Old school/new school. Lots of grip work for my judo as well.
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Sherk responds to PBF.
http://www.randomspeak.com/
"RS: Floyd Mayweather, Jr. came out the last couple weeks completely bashing the UFC and stating that any boxer would demolish a UFC fighter in the cage. Dana White (UFC President) came back at Mayweather and named you as the guy who he'd put Mayweather up against, and that you would handle him no problem. What are your thoughts on the whole situation?
Sean: Well, you know honestly in a boxing match, of course he'd beat me in a boxing match. In an MMA fight, he would be in for a beating. I mean, he's not going to knock me out with one punch; I've got a hard head and have been boxing for 13 years so it's not like I don't know how to box. So, he'd have to land a lot of punches to stop me from taking him down, and me being one of the best wrestlers in the sport, there's no way he could stop me from taking him down.
I don't think that fight would last longer than a minute, to be honest with you. And I don't think he should be talking about something that he can't back up, because I'll fight him tomorrow. I literally would, if they called and asked me to fight Floyd Mayweather, Jr. tomorrow, it's done. He's not going to fight me though, and he's just running his mouth. I don't really respect that a whole lot.
RS: It seems like a lot of boxers are starting to fear the rise of MMA by the way they keep speaking out against it. Do you think MMA has taken over?
Sean: Well it has, the numbers for the UFC are absolutely phenomenal. The numbers are unbelievable, and it's only getting bigger. A fight with me and Mayweather would obviously draw all the boxing fans, and after they see what happens to Floyd they would immediately jump on the UFC bandwagon and say "hey, what the hell are we watching boxing for". So it's a losing situation for boxing."
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People watch boxing because it is an amazing sport that requires MUCH MORE skill than mma to be the best.
If you doubt that then i simply say, how many years does it take to be the best boxer vs how many years does it take to be the best mma guy?
Answer JUST that question and the answer is there.
Both are great sports, but EVEN sherk just said, "I've been boxing for 13 years" did you read that? 13 years.....I would bet that Sherk couldn't STILL after 13 years win the NOVICE nystate golden gloves, period.
If I wrestled 13 years I would be a top level wrestler, no doubt!!
I DO think Mayweather disrespected mma, though. Fighters shouldn't do that because any fighting sport is a tough one and they all get my respect.
I can't get over that 13 years and he still couldn't win the ny gleasons gym fight tournament let alone novice nystate golden gloves....amazing sport is boxing.
Everyone try to catch the delahoya/mayweather specials on hbo leading up to their fight. The training and the skill is truely [phenominal.....man, ten ounce gloves and those hands move so fast and technical it's simply amazing.
Just to bring something up. I remember the varsity wrestling coach at my school wanting me to wrestle for him when I was in the 8th grade. He was a heavy weight and about 40, I was 14. he was showing us different cradles and grapevines. he had everyone try to hold him in a cradle as he kicked out of everyone. then came me and he couldn't kick out...the class cracked up. I went over to the high school practice and out wrestled a a heavyweight varsity wrestler the next week....and I was in the 8th grade and only wrestled for 3 months in junior high school, hahaha. The guy was so embarrassed. I loved wrestling but stayed with bodybuilding so I could look like the pro wrestlers I loved, superfly....now I pro wrestle.
Not taking anything from wrestlers or mma guys...I grew up with a well known wrestler and coach, Tommy ryan and know the devotion.
the elvis (spike tv)match the other day was truely INCREDIBLE with amazing jui jitsu of the highest caliber....you need years to get that great and most still never will, but boxing at mayweathers level is one of a kind.
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true, but pbf has always, does and always will do this shit.
come to think of it, all the mayweather clan do. it's their m.o
hype, that's all. not to be taken seriously.
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People watch boxing because it is an amazing sport that requires MUCH MORE skill than mma to be the best.
If you doubt that then i simply say, how many years does it take to be the best boxer vs how many years does it take to be the best mma guy?
Answer JUST that question and the answer is there.
Both are great sports, but EVEN sherk just said, "I've been boxing for 13 years" did you read that? 13 years.....I would bet that Sherk couldn't STILL after 13 years win the NOVICE nystate golden gloves, period.
If I wrestled 13 years I would be a top level wrestler, no doubt!!
I DO think Mayweather disrespected mma, though. Fighters shouldn't do that because any fighting sport is a tough one and they all get my respect.
I can't get over that 13 years and he still couldn't win the ny gleasons gym fight tournament let alone novice nystate golden gloves....amazing sport is boxing.
Everyone try to catch the delahoya/mayweather specials on hbo leading up to their fight. The training and the skill is truely [phenominal.....man, ten ounce gloves and those hands move so fast and technical it's simply amazing.
Just to bring something up. I remember the varsity wrestling coach at my school wanting me to wrestle for him when I was in the 8th grade. He was a heavy weight and about 40, I was 14. he was showing us different cradles and grapevines. he had everyone try to hold him in a cradle as he kicked out of everyone. then came me and he couldn't kick out...the class cracked up. I went over to the high school practice and out wrestled a a heavyweight varsity wrestler the next week....and I was in the 8th grade and only wrestled for 3 months in junior high school, hahaha. The guy was so embarrassed. I loved wrestling but stayed with bodybuilding so I could look like the pro wrestlers I loved, superfly....now I pro wrestle.
Not taking anything from wrestlers or mma guys...I grew up with a well known wrestler and coach, Tommy ryan and know the devotion.
the elvis (spike tv)match the other day was truely INCREDIBLE with amazing jui jitsu of the highest caliber....you need years to get that great and most still never will, but boxing at mayweathers level is one of a kind.
Time involved in a sport doesn't guarantee success. Physical attributes, mental preparedness and attitude all play roles in sucess in combat sports. Although I trained judo for a length of time (since I was 12), I couldn't compete at the higher levels because my body couldn't absorb the punishment that judo inflicted. Skillset wise, I was one of the better judokas at my club, but a couple of shoulder and back injuries derailed my chances of competing at high levels.
What seperates the good from the great are those blessed with the physical attributes necessary, the willingness, the skillset. Obviously PBF is one of those. However the controversey stems from his statement that MMA aint chit. Could Floyd be a great mma fighter, prolly. Is he, NO! He belittled the process of becoming good, or great at mma. To be good at MMA. One must be functional at all ranges, and excellent in one. Most of the time, it takes someone ten years to get their black belt in BJJ (unless you are BJ Penn). That is a significant time commitment. Most of the time, most MMA fighters come from a backround preceding MMA. IE wrestlers, strikers, etc. So the time commitment to become the top fighters are already there, to discount that is foolish.
PBF would beat any MMA fighter in a boxing ring. But in an NHB fight (notice I didn't say MMA), PBF or any world class level boxer would be on the ground receiving a wicked GNP, then get choked out and piss their pants ala Steven Seagull.
BTW, the jits exhibited in the Elvis/Bisping fight can hardly be compared to watching Roger Gracie, Jacare, Marcelo Garcia.
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of course I couldn't compare the JJ in the elvis match with the names you mentioned. What do you think of Eric Paulsen (sp?)? I got a incredible leglockes dvd of his.
How many top guys (top 3 each weight class) are black belts in Jui Jistu or abu dabi champs,, or ncaa champs, or top 5 contenders for a boxing title?
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of course I couldn't compare the JJ in the elvis match with the names you mentioned. What do you think of Eric Paulsen (sp?)? I got a incredible leglockes dvd of his.
How many top guys (top 3 each weight class) are black belts in Jui Jistu or abu dabi champs,, or ncaa champs, or top 5 contenders for a boxing title?
Paulsen is a BB under the Machados, won the Pan Ams in 1996, was shooto champ for five years. He is legit.
Ricardo Arona, BB, AD open weight champ
BJ Penn, BB (two years at that), Mundial champ, not a single point scored against him
Shinya Aoki, BB, Specatcular use of the rubber guard in MMA.
Kenny Florian, BB, decent muay thai as well
Matt Serra, BB, BJJ world Champ, UFC welterweight champ
Nog, BB, top five fighter and former Pride Heavyweight champ
Murilo Bustamante, BB, former UFC middleweight champ.
Anderson Silva, BB, current UFC middleweight champ.
Paulo Filho, BB, top five in Pride
Too many more to list.
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ha ha i had to check what you said a few times there. I thought you were making reference to Paul Varleans! ;D
I remember "the polar bear" Marco Ruas beat him by stomping on Varleans feat in the UFC back around 1995.
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Well, it has become to be like that. The first UFC was awesome. Bare knuckles, and the only things you couldn't do were eye-gouge, bite, and strike to the groin.
Guys did punch each other in the balls. That was legal. Keith Hackey hammered Joe Son's. You couldn't fish hook.
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Surely, we all agree that boxing is a great competitive SPORT with a fantastic historical tradition and, if you carefully tape your hands and wear protective gloves (to prevent the all too common hand-bone fractures) in your limited punching combo. attacks to the upper body...it is a great self-discipline...however, it is also VERY damaging to the body...particularly the brain, as the legions-upon-legions of punch-drunk retired boxers (and some not retired!) can vailidate.
However, if you are going to start mixing martial-arts competitions (hell, forget the "soft" arts...Judo, Jiu/Ju-Jitsu, Aikido, etc...and taking the boxer to the ground, etc.) surely, the magnificent pure hard-art sport of Muay Thai (even eliminiating the art's throwing segment!) is probably the most competitive hard-art.
Muay Thai kickboxers, along with those of comparable K-1 caliber, would do very well in a sporting boxing ring against a boxer with their ADDED devastating battery/array of open-hand strikes, elbow strikes, head butts, leg kicks, knee strikes, and vicious mid-line (body) and high-line (head) roundhouse kicks.!
I mean, I really cannot see any boxer even surviving in the ring against the best Muay Thai fighters (uhhh...very well trained to "take a punch" and deliver one!)...generally speaking...forgetting the excellent "ground game fighting art experts", altogether!
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Surely, we all agree that boxing is a great competitive SPORT with a fantastic historical tradition and, if you carefully tape your hands and wear protective gloves (to prevent the all too common hand-bone fractures) in your limited punching combo. attacks to the upper body...it is a great self-discipline...however, it is also VERY damaging to the body...particularly the brain, as the legions-upon-legions of punch-drunk retired boxers (and some not retired!) can vailidate.
However, if you are going to start mixing martial-arts competitions (hell, forget the "soft" arts...Judo, Jiu/Ju-Jitsu, Aikido, etc...and taking the boxer to the ground, etc.) surely, the magnificent pure hard-art sport of Muay Thai (even eliminiating the art's throwing segment!) is probably the most competitive hard-art.
Muay Thai kickboxers, along with those of comparable K-1 caliber, would do very well in a sporting boxing ring against a boxer with their ADDED devastating battery/array of open-hand strikes, elbow strikes, head butts, leg kicks, knee strikes, and vicious mid-line (body) and high-line (head) roundhouse kicks.!
I mean, I really cannot see any boxer even surviving in the ring against the best Muay Thai fighters (uhhh...very well trained to "take a punch" and deliver one!)...generally speaking...forgetting the excellent "ground game fighting art experts", altogether!
I agree with this assertion, but western boxers do have better hands. So a combinaiton of freestyle, greco, judo, bjj, muay thai and boxing would give you a complete game to deal with most situations.
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I agree with this assertion, but western boxers do have better hands. So a combinaiton of freestyle, greco, judo, bjj, muay thai and boxing would give you a complete game to deal with most situations.
Of course, Mayweather doesn't know what he is talkng about when he bashes other martial-arts besides boxing. Yes, I agree that when it comes to the fine art of punching and blocking/slipping/ducking strictly punches...then Western-style boxing is the best of its limited art.
And, of course, on paper a boxer would not survive at all in an MMA match...as was well-proven in the early days of the UFC (e.g. '93) when Royce Gracie took out boxers in short order (e.g. remember the boxer who stepped in the UFC cage with Royce wearing only one glove?). It's pretty obvious that once the boxer is brought to the ground by a skilled JJ/submission fighter, he is essentially finished.
However, where do you "draw the line" otherwise!??
IMO, the typical well-trained/conditioned MMA fighter can still consistently beat a typical Western-style boxer even while omitting the MMA fighter's use of the clinch/throw/takedown/ground-fighting/submission-wrestling game altogether. I'm contending that in a strictly stand-up match Muay Thai fighters (in particular) would have the best chance (I guess we should eliminate the head butts as being illegal) provided they would be allowed to use their full range of hand/elbow/knee/leg/foot strikes.
I mean strictly stand-up...could you see Mayweather surviving a rear-leg full power high-line roundhouse kick to the temple delivered following a punch/strike combo. that would "blind him to this follow-up kick!?? What about the Muay Thai fighters who are so adept at clinching, pulling the head down, and then delivering a battery of body/jaw/face knee strikes!? Or, the series of withering low-line roundhouse kicks to the outer thighs or, worse yet, to the inner thighs (ala Bas Rutten)!? Bye bye Mayweather!!
But again, in a fight (empty-handed or even otherwise) anything can happen! In the ring, it all depends upon the individual, his athletic skills/condition, his heart, and his abilty to survive the punishment...in the ring "you gotta be able to take a shot/punch/strike before you can throw one (always)"...since, we all have a "fight plan" until we get hit!!
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IMO, the typical well-trained/conditioned MMA fighter can still consistently beat a typical Western-style boxer even while omitting the MMA fighter's use of the clinch/throw/takedown/ground-fighting/submission-wrestling game altogether.
Just to get it right, did you just say that if the ONLY thing was standup fist (queens of marcbury(sp) rules...typical boxing, that a top mma guy would beat a top boxer?
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Richard, you obviously don't place much value in boxing in mma competitions and looking at it on paper, you seem correct ie less weapons = less performance. real simple. no need for essay after essay.
your simplistic nature is taking a lot of things for granted though, things that i pointed out earlier in the thread.
unfortunately you're also extremely ignorant of the importance of boxing in a typical mma bout.
hand skills (boxing) are the most essential striking skill component in the arsenal of an mma athlete.
that's right, far more important than elbows and lower body attacks or use of the head (obviously covertly because blatant head butting will get you disqualified).
if you haven't done a lot of work on boxing training and sparring then you are NOT going to rise to the top of the current legal mma competitions.
as pointed out by leg breaker and others numerous times, boxing is a skill that you don't just learn as part of your 'mma training'.
i find it amazing that some of you who have supposedly had extensive training in mma competition don't get this point.
pointing to gracie 'owning' boxers in the early days of ufc is disingenuous when you:
1. fail to mention the fact that he was 'owning' everyone in the early days of ufc and
2. don't mention that said boxers wouldn't have won a novice amateur bout at a local boxing event.
3. you mentioned the michael jackson wannabe (1 glove) but you, again, failed to mention that the poor guy was a punch drunk nobody and had a severe mental illness.
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I just had to post it again, BEAST 8692, haha...great post.
Richard, you obviously don't place much value in boxing in mma competitions and looking at it on paper, you seem correct ie less weapons = less performance. real simple. no need for essay after essay.
your simplistic nature is taking a lot of things for granted though, things that i pointed out earlier in the thread.
unfortunately you're also extremely ignorant of the importance of boxing in a typical mma bout.
hand skills (boxing) are the most essential striking skill component in the arsenal of an mma athlete.
that's right, far more important than elbows and lower body attacks or use of the head (obviously covertly because blatant head butting will get you disqualified).
if you haven't done a lot of work on boxing training and sparring then you are NOT going to rise to the top of the current legal mma competitions.
as pointed out by leg breaker and others numerous times, boxing is a skill that you don't just learn as part of your 'mma training'.
i find it amazing that some of you who have supposedly had extensive training in mma competition don't get this point.
pointing to gracie 'owning' boxers in the early days of ufc is disingenuous when you:
1. fail to mention the fact that he was 'owning' everyone in the early days of ufc and
2. don't mention that said boxers wouldn't have won a novice amateur bout at a local boxing event.
3. you mentioned the michael jackson wannabe (1 glove) but you, again, failed to mention that the poor guy was a punch drunk nobody and had a severe mental illness.
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Oh brother. This isn't complicated - also it was settled in UFC 1. A decent grappler will take the boxer down every time and choke him out or pound him. It's been done!!!! UFC 1 people! A pure grappler beat the boxer.
Also, any fighter that uses kicks effectively(Cro Cop) would beat a boxer most of the time. I myself(coming from a karate background) fought a boxer. He charged in predictably(because he HAS to close range to be effective)and walked right into a round house kick to the head! A front kick would have been equally effective. In a slugging much, the boxer will beat anyone, but a striker also has the option of clinching to prevent combos and using elbows, knees, and headbutts.
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put a pair of boxing gloves on a ufc fighter and they lose...put a boxer in the octagon and he'll lose...its two different sports with different rules you morons.
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People watch boxing because it is an amazing sport that requires MUCH MORE skill than mma to be the best.
If I wrestled 13 years I would be a top level wrestler, no doubt!!
That is one of the funniest things I've ever seen.
If you wrestled for 13 years, you'd just be a caulflower eared joke amongst any good wrester.
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That is one of the funniest things I've ever seen.
If you wrestled for 13 years, you'd just be a caulflower eared joke amongst any good wrester.
Trust me, I know many great wrestlers and have rolled around with state champions, the comment is very true.
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put a pair of boxing gloves on a ufc fighter and they lose...put a boxer in the octagon and he'll lose...its two different sports with different rules you morons.
That is the truth, in most cases.
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That is one of the funniest things I've ever seen.
If you wrestled for 13 years, you'd just be a caulflower eared joke amongst any good wrester.
ahh, fuck it, you don't know shit.
seriously, most of you guys HAVE NO FUCKING IDEA.
i often end up on the ground and my ears get banged up. i just get the physician to drain them after the fight. welcome to modern technology moron.
why don't you knob jockeys go get a clue ie talk to some guys that actually compete and then come back and talk about this shit. your disrespect for the ma shows your ignorance.
pbf is a hype guy, always has been. anyone that takes his shit seriously needs their head examined.
at the end of the day, mma is all about being the best you can be in all disciplines. if you underestimate/disrespeect any one of those disciplines then, put it this way, i WANT to fight you.
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Just to get it right, did you just say that if the ONLY thing was standup fist (queens of marcbury(sp) rules...typical boxing, that a top mma guy would beat a top boxer?
NO legbreaker, very obviously if you limited stand-up fighting to strictly punching strikes (i.e. jab, cross, hook, uppercut, etc.), a boxer would very obviously win against an MMA fighter!
However, if you paired a boxer up with a top-notch Muay Thai (MT) fighter of similar bodyweight in a strictly "stand-up" fight...an MT fighter who is able to use ALL varieties of low/mid/hi-line strikes with his hands/elbows/knees/shins/feet...I would certainly "put my money" on the MT fighter in a mixed martial-arts stand-up match! And, this is ignoring the "ground-game" altogether!!
Hopefully, this clarifies my point!?
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Richard, you obviously don't place much value in boxing in mma competitions and looking at it on paper, you seem correct ie less weapons = less performance. real simple. no need for essay after essay.
your simplistic nature is taking a lot of things for granted though, things that i pointed out earlier in the thread.
unfortunately you're also extremely ignorant of the importance of boxing in a typical mma bout.
hand skills (boxing) are the most essential striking skill component in the arsenal of an mma athlete.
that's right, far more important than elbows and lower body attacks or use of the head (obviously covertly because blatant head butting will get you disqualified).
if you haven't done a lot of work on boxing training and sparring then you are NOT going to rise to the top of the current legal mma competitions.
as pointed out by leg breaker and others numerous times, boxing is a skill that you don't just learn as part of your 'mma training'.
i find it amazing that some of you who have supposedly had extensive training in mma competition don't get this point.
pointing to gracie 'owning' boxers in the early days of ufc is disingenuous when you:
1. fail to mention the fact that he was 'owning' everyone in the early days of ufc and
2. don't mention that said boxers wouldn't have won a novice amateur bout at a local boxing event.
3. you mentioned the michael jackson wannabe (1 glove) but you, again, failed to mention that the poor guy was a punch drunk nobody and had a severe mental illness.
Beast, boxing skills are VERY important in MMA matches and any MMA fighter should train long and hard on these skills...and, I fully agree with you that any MMA fighter needs to constantly train on and try and improve his boxing/punching skills!
However, there are some punch avoidance boxing skills (a.k.a. duck/slip/block) that are, at times, downright dangerous to implement in an MMA match/ring! For example, you can always duck a hooking punch in a pure boxing match...but, risking ducking under a hooking punch in an MMA match can expose you directly to a follow-up vicious knee strike to the face/jaw!
Yes, your comments on the early UFC MMA days are probably right as all non-GJJ fighters were having to adjust/adapt to the GJJ style of MMA fighting.
But again Beast, with all due respect to the excellent stand-up punching skills of the pure Western-style boxer...if the boxer were paired with a pure Muay Thai fighter (not even being allowed to use his throwing/takedown techniques)...on paper, the Muay Thai fighter should prevail with his ability to use his full arsenal of low/mid/high-line strikes with his hands/elbows/knees/shins/feet. This is assuming that both fighters would be of approx. similar bodyweight, be fighting in a boxing ring and, of course, we are omitting altogether all throwing/takedown/grappling fighting techniques/skills.
However, ALL Muay Thai knee/elbow/hand strikes available in the allowed stand-up clinch phase of the MMA match would be permitted along with clasping-the-hands/grabbing behind the neck/head so as to pull the head down!
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Legbreaker, in my "long 40+ year MMA journey" struggling to learn the MANY fascinating martial-arts disciplines...progressin g through golden gloves boxing (uhhh...by the way, getting "knocked out/down" several times!), intercollegiate freestyle wrestling, judo, additional "hard-arts" (TKD, Karate, Kung-Fu, JKD), military CCC/hand-to-hand-combat), and finally GJJ...I've realized that you never master an art, and no matter how good you think you are there is always (of course!) someone better. Was it Bruce Lee who is supposed to have said (words to the effect), "the goal it is not in reaching the destination, but in persevering to make the journey"!?
For the "average joe" like myself working a regular job, rearing children, etc., just struggling to stay-in-shape, and finding time to only practice the MMA approx. 4 hours a week, I learned long ago that to enter competiton was really dangerous/unhealthy when you are competing against guys who compete for a living and can train some 8 hrs. a day 6-7 days a week!
blah blah blah.................... ..
An olympic lifter, an MMA fighter, holy hell this grand dad has done it all. (http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/41.gif)
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An olympic lifter, an MMA fighter, holy hell this grand dad has done it all. (http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/41.gif)
true, i'm a little confused on the dateline on Richard.
was he an olympic weightlifting at the same time as he was a 'golden gloves boxer' or???
btw, please explain to me what 'golden gloves boxing' is?
the 'golden gloves' is an amateur boxing tournament that is typically held once a year (although there are local comps aswell). the best amateur boxers compete and the best boxer of the night becomes golden gloves champion. there is no 'golden gloves boxing' per se. whenever i hear someone say they're are a 'golden gloves boxer' i become aware of 3 things:
1. they are full of shit
2. they're trying to intimidate you so they don't have to fight you (i know this doesn't apply to you Richard)
3. they are lousy fighters because good fighters don't show their hand thus giving an opponent an advantage.
IF you competed in the golden gloves tournament then that would mean you were an amateur boxer of some notoriety.
so what's the true story Richard?
Olympic Weightlifter, wrestler, amateur boxer, soldier?
i do recall you stating on this very thread that you were NOT a boxer but competing in wrestling at the same club as competitive boxers, so can you please clear up my confusion ???
i'm not accusing you of lying and you do appear to know what you're talking about, but the pieces don't fit especially when you cross reference it to the other getbig thread Dballn247 is alluding to.
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true, i'm a little confused on the dateline on Richard.
was he an olympic weightlifting at the same time as he was a 'golden gloves boxer' or???
btw, please explain to me what 'golden gloves boxing' is?
the 'golden gloves' is an amateur boxing tournament that is typically held once a year (although there are local comps aswell). the best amateur boxers compete and the best boxer of the night becomes golden gloves champion. there is no 'golden gloves boxing' per se. whenever i hear someone say they're are a 'golden gloves boxer' i become aware of 2 things:
1. they are full of shit
2. they're trying to intimidate you so they don't have to fight you (i know this doesn't apply to you Richard)
3. they are lousy fighters because good fighters don't show their hand thus giving an opponent an advantage.
IF you competed in the golden gloves tournament then that would mean you were an amateur boxer of some notoriety.
so what's the true story Richard?
Olympic Weightlifter, wrestler, amateur boxer, soldier?
i do recall you stating on this very thread that you were NOT a boxer but competing in wrestling at the same club as competitive boxers, so can you please clear up my confusion ???
i'm not accusing you of lying and you do appear to know what you're talking about, but the pieces don't fit especially when you cross reference it to the other getbig thread Dballn247 is alluding to.
Beast 8692, you just unlocked the door to possibly the biggest meltdowns getbig has potentially ever seen. Dicky2k4 don't like being called out man. Should be interesting, gonna get my popcorn. Richard!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Beast 8692, you just unlocked the door to possibly the biggest meltdowns getbig has potentially ever seen. Dicky2k4 don't like being called out man. Should be interesting, gonna get my popcorn. Richard!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
lol, my money's on him not answering it at all, but we'll see. ;D
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Beast, I'm not sure if you really didn't know what Golden Glove boxer is.
It is an amateur tournament held in many states 1 time a year.
However, only in some states is the amateur competition level high enough to mean a great deal. NY is a very tough city to win in....Sort of like winning a national qualifying bodybuilding contest in wyoming compared to NJ, NY, FL, CAL etc. Cal is probably another very tough state as would be chicago, detroit and many others.
In NY even the novice division of the tournament gets very difficult and I know guys that are known for their hands in mma that could not win the novice ny golden gloves.
Did anyone see the fight on HBO last night? AWESOME and simply amazing skilled talented fighters.
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Beast, I'm not sure if you really didn't know what Golden Glove boxer is.
It is an amateur tournament held in many states 1 time a year.
However, only in some states is the amateur competition level high enough to mean a great deal. NY is a very tough city to win in....Sort of like winning a national qualifying bodybuilding contest in wyoming compared to NJ, NY, FL, CAL etc. Cal is probably another very tough state as would be chicago, detroit and many others.
In NY even the novice division of the tournament gets very difficult and I know guys that are known for their hands in mma that could not win the novice ny golden gloves.
Did anyone see the fight on HBO last night? AWESOME and simply amazing skilled talented fighters.
yes, the golden gloves is a tournament where the best competitors compete. they have national and state competitions annually.
however, you don't actually do 'golen gloves boxing' per se. you become an amateur boxer, have local novice bouts 3 wins or 5 fights, etc and then move on to different state, national (incl golden gloves tournament) and international competitions.
IF Richard was a boxer competing in the golden gloves he would have been an amateur boxer and a pretty good one, depending on where he lived. to win the national golden gloves you must be an elite amateur boxer.
the thing is, Richard stated earlier in the thread:
"Personally, having been challenged by boxers over my many years of MMA practice, whenever boxers would challenge me to "get into the ring with them" they would then try to force me to put on a pair of boxing gloves, not allow any kicks at all (and certainly no low-line/leg kicking!) and, of course, disallow any takedowns/throwing or ground fighting...hilarious and pathetic...thus, really trying to stack-the-deck in their favor!!"
obviously this indicates that, not only was he not an amateur boxer, he certainly wasn't an elite amateur boxer competing in golden gloves competitions. if he was, he would have happily donned the gloves and sparred with them, more than likely show them a thing or two in the process. yet he is saying here that they were "really trying to stack the deck in their favour!!"
i smell bullshit and i seriously doubt that Richard will come back and answer to it.
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hahaha, i agree, Beast.
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once again this is two different sports It depends on what sports rules you go by that would most likely determine the winner
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true, i'm a little confused on the dateline on Richard.
was he an olympic weightlifting at the same time as he was a 'golden gloves boxer' or???
btw, please explain to me what 'golden gloves boxing' is?
the 'golden gloves' is an amateur boxing tournament that is typically held once a year (although there are local comps aswell). the best amateur boxers compete and the best boxer of the night becomes golden gloves champion. there is no 'golden gloves boxing' per se. whenever i hear someone say they're are a 'golden gloves boxer' i become aware of 3 things:
1. they are full of shit
2. they're trying to intimidate you so they don't have to fight you (i know this doesn't apply to you Richard)
3. they are lousy fighters because good fighters don't show their hand thus giving an opponent an advantage.
IF you competed in the golden gloves tournament then that would mean you were an amateur boxer of some notoriety.
so what's the true story Richard?
Olympic Weightlifter, wrestler, amateur boxer, soldier?
i do recall you stating on this very thread that you were NOT a boxer but competing in wrestling at the same club as competitive boxers, so can you please clear up my confusion ???
i'm not accusing you of lying and you do appear to know what you're talking about, but the pieces don't fit especially when you cross reference it to the other getbig thread Dballn247 is alluding to.
yes, the golden gloves is a tournament where the best competitors compete. they have national and state competitions annually.
however, you don't actually do 'golen gloves boxing' per se. you become an amateur boxer, have local novice bouts 3 wins or 5 fights, etc and then move on to different state, national (incl golden gloves tournament) and international competitions.
IF Richard was a boxer competing in the golden gloves he would have been an amateur boxer and a pretty good one, depending on where he lived. to win the national golden gloves you must be an elite amateur boxer.
the thing is, Richard stated earlier in the thread:
"Personally, having been challenged by boxers over my many years of MMA practice, whenever boxers would challenge me to "get into the ring with them" they would then try to force me to put on a pair of boxing gloves, not allow any kicks at all (and certainly no low-line/leg kicking!) and, of course, disallow any takedowns/throwing or ground fighting...hilarious and pathetic...thus, really trying to stack-the-deck in their favor!!"
obviously this indicates that, not only was he not an amateur boxer, he certainly wasn't an elite amateur boxer competing in golden gloves competitions. if he was, he would have happily donned the gloves and sparred with them, more than likely show them a thing or two in the process. yet he is saying here that they were "really trying to stack the deck in their favour!!"
i smell bullshit and i seriously doubt that Richard will come back and answer to it.
Oh me, here we go yet again...
Uhhh...I boxed at the ages of 15-16 and competed in some local city/club-sponsored boxing matches which included a citywide Golden Gloves sponsored tournament. Duhh...I don't recall saying I ever "won any amateur boxing awards"...just that I've trained as a boxer.
Duhhh...uhhh...I once boxed in a local citywide Golden Gloves sponsored amateur boxing tournament in my middle teens...does that mean I'm allowed to call myself a "golden gloves boxer"...maybe not...sorry about the confusion/misinformation/misunderstanding!??
Duhhh...LATER, in college, I was a member of my university's intercollegiate freestyle wrestling team and wrestled in the 177 lb. bwt. class during the wrestling season. Since people have reading comprehension problems...again, members of our intercollegiate boxing team had occasional "challenge mixed matches" with the members of my wrestling team (in the ring and on the mat...gloves and no gloves).
While in college, I began to add the study of Judo, Japanese Jiu-Jitsu, and Isshin-Ryu (Okinawan) Karate. During my training at both a local Y and nearby dojo on these hard/soft arts, I has some YMCA boxers challenge me to "step in the ring with them"...that's all! Uhhh...these challenges weren't "friendly in nature", but were done with an arrogant attitude to try and "prove" that boxing was superior to the other hard/soft martial-arts I was training on.
After all, this was way back in the early 1960's when the hard/soft Oriental martial-arts were often considered "inferior fighting arts" to Western-style boxing, were relatively unknown, and often ridiculed (particularly by boxers)! At the time, not having "purely boxed" for some 6 long years but having practiced OTHER martial-arts since, I was EAGER to prove to these cocky boxers that the OTHER hard/soft martial-arts, that I had been diligently practicing, were for REAL, and were superior (in combination!) to their one-dimensional boxing! Uhhh, hope this is an "adequate/comeback answer to your question"!?
By the way, at age 19, I was fortunate enough to win the National Teenage Olympic Weightlifting Championships and set some national records (as has been fully documented on other forum threads).
Uhhh...I'm not a "competitive MMA fighter" like all of you other rough/tough guys, but have simply trained regularly on the hard/soft martial-arts (and still do) since 1963.
And frankly Beast, I really couldn't care less "what you think/believe"...cause you, like my 'ole nemesis', dballn, are gonna believe what you want to believe, regardless!
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You sound like Mr.Intenseone. ;D
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You sound like Mr.Intenseone. ;D
yes, he does a bit. :-\
hey Richard, did you also bench press 535lbs at 181lbs body weight while wearing nothing but some gym shorts and a singlet?
Dballn247, you won the bet.
Richard, you've gone from golden gloves boxer to 'some kid that, duhh, did a little boxing and duhh stumbled into a golden gloves tournament. apparently you sucked at it, no wonder you quit.
when those 'boxers' challenged you at your mma gym what you actually did was strip down to your pink panties, don the red cape and, hands on hips, declare:
"hallo boys, no need for gloves. with a jar of vasoline you can fist me in the ring all day." at which point you proceeded to demonstrate on yourself. :-X
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Oh me, here we go yet again...
Uhhh...I boxed at the ages of 15-16 and competed in some local city/club-sponsored boxing matches which included a citywide Golden Gloves sponsored tournament. Duhh...I don't recall saying I ever "won any amateur boxing awards"...just that I've trained as a boxer.
Duhhh...uhhh...I once boxed in a local citywide Golden Gloves sponsored amateur boxing tournament in my middle teens...does that mean I'm allowed to call myself a "golden gloves boxer"...maybe not...sorry about the confusion/misinformation/misunderstanding!??
Duhhh...LATER, in college, I was a member of my university's intercollegiate freestyle wrestling team and wrestled in the 177 lb. bwt. class during the wrestling season. Since people have reading comprehension problems...again, members of our intercollegiate boxing team had occasional "challenge mixed matches" with the members of my wrestling team (in the ring and on the mat...gloves and no gloves).
While in college, I began to add the study of Judo, Japanese Jiu-Jitsu, and Isshin-Ryu (Okinawan) Karate. During my training at both a local Y and nearby dojo on these hard/soft arts, I has some YMCA boxers challenge me to "step in the ring with them"...that's all! Uhhh...these challenges weren't "friendly in nature", but were done with an arrogant attitude to try and "prove" that boxing was superior to the other hard/soft martial-arts I was training on.
After all, this was way back in the early 1960's when the hard/soft Oriental martial-arts were often considered "inferior fighting arts" to Western-style boxing, were relatively unknown, and often ridiculed (particularly by boxers)! At the time, not having "purely boxed" for some 6 long years but having practiced OTHER martial-arts since, I was EAGER to prove to these cocky boxers that the OTHER hard/soft martial-arts, that I had been diligently practicing, were for REAL, and were superior (in combination!) to their one-dimensional boxing! Uhhh, hope this is an "adequate/comeback answer to your question"!?
By the way, at age 19, I was fortunate enough to win the National Teenage Olympic Weightlifting Championships and set some national records (as has been fully documented on other forum threads).
Uhhh...I'm not a "competitive MMA fighter" like all of you other rough/tough guys, but have simply trained regularly on the hard/soft martial-arts (and still do) since 1963.
And frankly Beast, I really couldn't care less "what you think/believe"...cause you, like my 'ole nemesis', dballn, are gonna believe what you want to believe, regardless!
Meltdown!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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yes, he does a bit. :-\
hey Richard, did you also bench press 535lbs at 181lbs body weight while wearing nothing but some gym shorts and a singlet?
Dballn247, you won the bet.
Richard, you've gone from golden gloves boxer to 'some kid that, duhh, did a little boxing and duhh stumbled into a golden gloves tournament. apparently you sucked at it, no wonder you quit.
when those 'boxers' challenged you at your mma gym what you actually did was strip down to your pink panties, don the red cape and, hands on hips, declare:
"hallo boys, no need for gloves. with a jar of vasoline you can fist me in the ring all day." at which point you proceeded to demonstrate on yourself. :-X
Gee gollies Beast, this thread is supposed to be about pro. boxers, like Mayweather, being able to "punish" MMA fighters in a mixed match...uhhh, at least that's what the subject header to this thread states...
Again, what a waste of my valuable time to try and communicate intelligently on ANY subject with a bunch of druggie teenagers (obviously) whose only intent is to insult posters, call them names, twist the truth, and gang-up on them!
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Beast 8692, you just unlocked the door to possibly the biggest meltdowns getbig has potentially ever seen. Dicky2k4 don't like being called out man. Should be interesting, gonna get my popcorn. Richard!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Got your popcorn Dballin247, the show's started. ;D
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Gee gollies Beast, this thread is supposed to be about pro. boxers, like Mayweather, being able to "punish" MMA fighters in a mixed match...uhhh, at least that's what the subject header to this thread states...
Again, what a waste of my valuable time to try and communicate intelligently on ANY subject with a bunch of druggie teenagers (obviously) whose only intent is to insult posters, call them names, twist the truth, and gang-up on them!
"Beast" is dickhead. ::) No need to pay attention to him.
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Got your popcorn Dballin247, the show's started. ;D
I wonder if Richard will be able to back up his claims, He's already been proven a liar saying he was a marathon runner in the Peachtree 10k for the last x amount of years (as shown below), However if you lookup last years roster or the year before, or the year before, no richard schmidt. Who's lying???
Tell you what though, every year (since '78) I run the 10K Peachtree Road Race. And, I get a Peachree RR t-shirt every year with the year emblazoned on the front of the shirt.
http://www.atlantatrackclub.org/at02000.htm
If you can find your name on the list I'll mail you a nickel.
Richard you got some splaining to do......
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I wonder if Richard will be able to back up his claims, He's already been proven a liar saying he was a marathon runner in the Peachtree 10k for the last x amount of years (as shown below), However if you lookup last years roster or the year before, or the year before, no richard schmidt. Who's lying???
http://www.atlantatrackclub.org/at02000.htm
If you can find your name on the list I'll mail you a nickel.
Richard you got some splaining to do......
Hahahahaha…I just couldn’t pass this last one up…
You see, folks, this is what happens when the long-term combo. of illegal REC. and BB drugs in Dballn’s stack causes PERMANENT damage/destruction to this demeneted idiot’s brain cells…
After all, Dballn has already “PROVED” that I’m actually dead (???)…and served in WWII at age of approx. 5 (???)...and THEN got married at approx. age 8 (???)…hahahahahahah…see, what all that crack cocaine he’s been asmokin’ has done to this demented idiot’s brain…
As we all know Richard 2004 claims to be the next Jack Lalane. He is supposed to be some 70 year old who lived his life looking in the rearview mirror, thinking about what could have been. When we asked him to verify some lifts he scanned some images of a Richard Schmidt as it appeared they could have been him. However when we asked him to post a current pic holding a recent newspaper magazine or etc. he just avoided the challenge and resorted back to his 15 year old mentality.
Did some research on Mr. Schmidt today, not the one on this board as he would'nt give me his middle initial and year of birth so I researched the lifter he posted as him. Here are my findings:
Richard H. Schmidt
March 3, 2004
Richard H. Schmidt, professor emeritus of psychology at Western Michigan University, died Feb. 7 in Sun City West, Ariz. He was 67.
Schmidt joined the WMU faculty in 1955 after serving as an instructor at Oklahoma State University and as acting head of the psychology department at Gustavus Adolphus College. He was also a psychology advisor at Fort Hayes State College. He was a certified consulting psychologist in Michigan and a member of the American and Michigan Psychological Associations. As director of professional experiences in WMU's psychology department and Graduate College, he was instrumental in setting up a system of control and supervision for internship programs. He retired in 1979 with 23 years service to WMU.
During World War II, Schmidt served as a personnel consultant in the Army Specialized Training Program. Following the war, he earned bachelor's, master's and Doctor of Education degrees from Oklahoma State.
Schmidt is survived by his wife of 59 years. Memorials may be made to support a scholarship endowment created by Schmidt through the Crown of Life Lutheran Church, 13131 Spanish Garden Dr., Sun City West, AZ 85375.
So If I'm lying Richard2004 - go ahead and post a current pic. It should look just like the one you said was current and everyone called BS saying it was a pic from the 70's. I know your prolly upset, for all I know that guy could have been your dad. Posting someone elses accomplishments as your own is low.
You have zero cred on this board except for the fact that everyone knows that you are a scmoe and now a liar.
Hahahahaha…obviously, Dballn can’t even accurately “research” his own navel!!!
Oh, and the Atlanta Track Club URL link you referenced lists ONLY the first thousand-odd runners names/times who finished these race(s) and NOT the FULL listing of the approx. FIFTY-THOUSAND (50,000!) runners that actually entered and ran/finished these annual 10K race(s) in approx. 55-60 mins. and received their race T-shirts!??
Dballn, your druggie, demented, stupidity and ignorance is exceeded only by your druggie, demented, stupidity and ignorance!!
Awww...now did I have another official Getbig "meltdown"...well, duhhh, ugh, grunt, snort, fart, yuk, yuk, yuk!!
Somebody, please get this thread back on track!??
And, I still say that any top-level Muay Thai (MT) fighter should beat any top-level boxer of similar bwt./experience-level (on paper, always)...and forget the throwing/leg-sweeping aspects of the MT art, altogether!!? There is no way a boxer can theoretically survive the vicious array of strikes an MT fighter can deliver in the clinch phase of the match (and there will be no referee to separate the fighters once they enter the clinch phase to "save" the poor boxer...as is always done in the one-dimensional art of boxing)!
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"Beast" is dickhead. ::) No need to pay attention to him.
oh dear, poor little Benny. still smarting from me calling you on your bullshit claims? :'(
there there, daddy kiss it better. :-*
Richard, when are you going to realize this is just a message board where people come to chill, share info and yes, talk some shit.
don't take it all so serious mane.
as a matter of fact, whether you are just well read or you you're telling the truth, i will say that i find your view far more interesting and informative than most of the posters on this section of the board.
i don't always agree with it, but i respect that you tell it.
i've got to be honest, melt downs aside, i am a little confused as to how you managed to be an olympic weightlifting champion, amateur boxer competing in golden gloves competitions, run marathons, go to war, wrestling, mma, etc, etc all around the same time period.
i know i'm being very simplistic here but can you explain how you did all this? i believe that it would be an inspiring read.
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Meltdown........Damn Richard, you are way to easy. Starting to look familiar. Every time you open your dickskinner you get caught in lies, which results in the 3/4 page meltdown threads. Every thread of yours is a meltdown.
And for the record http://www.atlantatrackclub.org/at02400.htm shows 5433 runners, What a weird number to stop at. I guess you were in the last 54,567 runners. ::)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=132865.0;attach=150338)(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a266/richard2004/scan0005.jpg)
Yeah I'm lying, are you still trying to claim that these photos was taken recently? Yeah, maybe if you mean with in the last 40years. ::)
If you guys want a good laugh, here's the last meltdown Richard couldn't recover from.
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=132865.0
"...well, duhhh, ugh, grunt, snort, fart, yuk, yuk, yuk!!" - richard2004 (inspiring words)
hahahhahahahahaha......M ore meltdowns to follow........
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oh dear, poor little Benny. still smarting from me calling you on your bullshit claims? :'(
there there, daddy kiss it better. :-*
Richard, when are you going to realize this is just a message board where people come to chill, share info and yes, talk some shit.
don't take it all so serious mane.
as a matter of fact, whether you are just well read or you you're telling the truth, i will say that i find your view far more interesting and informative than most of the posters on this section of the board.
i don't always agree with it, but i respect that you tell it.
i've got to be honest, melt downs aside, i am a little confused as to how you managed to be an olympic weightlifting champion, amateur boxer competing in golden gloves competitions, run marathons, go to war, wrestling, mma, etc, etc all around the same time period.
i know i'm being very simplistic here but can you explain how you did all this? i believe that it would be an inspiring read.
Uhh...what "bullshit" claims did you call me on, dickhead? ???
You claimed Lennox Lewis would dominate in a mma bout with his boxing skills, and you sounded like an idiot. Everyone in the thread told you that your hero Lennox would get taken down and promptly pounded and/or choked the fuck out. After the beating your arguement took from all sides, you meekly disappeared from that thread. Hmmm...I wonder why?
Oh, I know! You don't know what the fuck you're talking about. ;)
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Uhh...what "bullshit" claims did you call me on, dickhead? ???
You claimed Lennox Lewis would dominate in a mma bout with his boxing skills, and you sounded like an idiot. Everyone in the thread told you that your hero Lennox would get taken down and promptly pounded and/or choked the fuck out. After the beating your arguement took from all sides, you meekly disappeared from that thread. Hmmm...I wonder why?
Oh, I know! You don't know what the fuck you're talking about. ;)
ahh, no, you're being a tad disingenuous there little Benny.
I didn't say Lennox would dominate in the mma at all and you know that.
you made the claim that if tito ortiz and lennox were to fight in the mma that tito would simply walk over and take prime lennox down in 1 minute.
i pointed out your lack of credibility on the issue ie tito having very poor defence (to strike) skills (everyone hits tito standing up), but he's walking through lennox? ::)
styles make fights and advantages aside (i have pointed this out soooo many times) no fucking way on the planet is tito simply shooting in on prime lennox. shit, even tito will tell you that.
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And for the record http://www.atlantatrackclub.org/at02400.htm shows 5433 runners, What a weird number to stop at. I guess you were in the last 54,567 runners. ::)
hahahhahahahahaha......M ore meltdowns to follow........
Dballn, you are so fucckin' dense/stupid!!!
Duhhh...uhhh...here is the URL link to the Atlanta Track Club/Atlanta Journal-Constitution's Peachtree Road Race for 2007 and you will notice, from the info. provided on this link, that the allowable runner entry list for this year's 10K race is approx. FIFTY-FIVE THOUSAND (55,000) runners. Those that finish the 10K in approx. 55 mins., or less, get a PRR T-shirt (as determined by "T-shirt clock").
http://www.atlantatrackclub.org/at02001.htm
Geez, I don't know why the URL link YOU provided lists only the first "5433 runners' times"!?? Duhhh...uhhh...maybe, because listing ALL 50,000-odd race entry names/finishers would be too-long a list!?? Duhhh...why don't you call the ATC and ask them...tel: 404.231.9064.
Somebody, PLEASE help Dballn get his HS diploma...or get him into DRUG REHAB...or SOMETHING!??? CUZ, HE IS OBVIOUSLY DRUGGIE BRAIN-DAMAGED!!!
And, what the fucck this "off-the-wall topic" has to do with MMA and Mayweather's comments (the SUBJECT of this thread!)...I have not the slightest idea...SORRY WisconsinBB!??
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Richard, when are you going to realize this is just a message board where people come to chill, share info and yes, talk some shit.
don't take it all so serious mane.
as a matter of fact, whether you are just well read or you you're telling the truth, i will say that i find your view far more interesting and informative than most of the posters on this section of the board.
i don't always agree with it, but i respect that you tell it.
i've got to be honest, melt downs aside, i am a little confused as to how you managed to be an olympic weightlifting champion, amateur boxer competing in golden gloves competitions, run marathons, go to war, wrestling, mma, etc, etc all around the same time period.
i know i'm being very simplistic here but can you explain how you did all this? i believe that it would be an inspiring read.
Oh, is that what a "meltdown" is on these boards...sounding like you are taking something "serious"...or trying to provide and intelligent/logical response...or writing a post that's longer than a few sentences!??
Regardless of your opinion about my "boxing skills", there was no need to make the following blatantly disrespectful remarks (oh, and in the early 1960's there were NO such training facilities that were called "mma gyms"!?)...
yes, he does a bit. :-\
hey Richard, did you also bench press 535lbs at 181lbs body weight while wearing nothing but some gym shorts and a singlet?
Richard, you've gone from golden gloves boxer to 'some kid that, duhh, did a little boxing and duhh stumbled into a golden gloves tournament. apparently you sucked at it, no wonder you quit.
when those 'boxers' challenged you at your mma gym what you actually did was strip down to your pink panties, don the red cape and, hands on hips, declare:
"hallo boys, no need for gloves. with a jar of vasoline you can fist me in the ring all day." at which point you proceeded to demonstrate on yourself. :-X
Hopefully Beast, you are not druggie brain-damaged like poor dballn, so try and follow this timeline...
ages 15-16: trained on boxing in an amateur boxing gym and competed in a citywide Golden Gloves sponsored event/tournament.
ages 15-19: weight-trained and won the Teenage National Olympic Weightlifting Championships (198 lb. weight class) at age 19.
ages 20-24: attended college (worked my way through) and wrestled on the university's intercollegiate freestyle wrestling team.
age 22: started traditional Oriental martial-arts training...Judo, Japanese Jiu-Jitsu, and Okinawan Karate'...and have trained on the mma ever since (averaging approx. 4 hrs. a week every week).
ages 24-27: graduated from college and completed military service.
age 39 (approx.): started running 5K's, 10K's, and even a few full-marathons, to supplement my continued weight-training and mma training...and have continued cross-training on these 3 disciplines ever since.
So you see, this covers an approx. 24-YEAR LOOONG time-interval and wasn't "all around the same time period" (???)!
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Dballn, you are so fucckin' dense/stupid!!!
Duhhh...uhhh...here is the URL link to the Atlanta Track Club/Atlanta Journal-Constitution's Peachtree Road Race for 2007 and you will notice, from the info. provided on this link, that the allowable runner entry list for this year's 10K race is approx. FIFTY-FIVE THOUSAND (55,000) runners. Those that finish the 10K in approx. 55 mins., or less, get a PRR T-shirt (as determined by "T-shirt clock").
http://www.atlantatrackclub.org/at02001.htm
Geez, I don't know why the URL link YOU provided lists only the first "5433 runners' times"!?? Duhhh...uhhh...maybe, because listing ALL 50,000-odd race entry names/finishers would be too-long a list!?? Duhhh...why don't you call the ATC and ask them...tel: 404.231.9064.
Somebody, PLEASE help Dballn get his HS diploma...or get him into DRUG REHAB...or SOMETHING!??? CUZ, HE IS OBVIOUSLY DRUGGIE BRAIN-DAMAGED!!!
And, what the fucck this "off-the-wall topic" has to do with MMA and Mayweather's comments (the SUBJECT of this thread!)...I have not the slightest idea...SORRY WisconsinBB!??
Douchebag Meltdown.....Do you even live in Georgia? What city? (http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/30.gif)
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Oh, is that what a "meltdown" is on these boards...sounding like you are taking something "serious"...or trying to provide and intelligent/logical response...or writing a post that's longer than a few sentences!??
Regardless of your opinion about my "boxing skills", there was no need to make the following blatantly disrespectful remarks (oh, and in the early 1960's there were NO such training facilities that were called "mma gyms"!?)...
Hopefully Beast, you are not druggie brain-damaged like poor dballn, so try and follow this timeline...
ages 15-16: trained on boxing in an amateur boxing gym and competed in a citywide Golden Gloves sponsored event/tournament.
ages 15-19: weight-trained and won the Teenage National Olympic Weightlifting Championships (198 lb. weight class) at age 19.
ages 20-24: attended college (worked my way through) and wrestled on the university's intercollegiate freestyle wrestling team.
age 22: started traditional Oriental martial-arts training...Judo, Japanese Jiu-Jitsu, and Okinawan Karate'...and have trained on the mma ever since (averaging approx. 4 hrs. a week every week).
ages 24-27: graduated from college and completed military service.
age 39 (approx.): started running 5K's, 10K's, and even a few full-marathons, to supplement my continued weight-training and mma training...and have continued cross-training on these 3 disciplines ever since.
So you see, this covers an approx. 24-YEAR LOOONG time-interval and wasn't "all around the same time period" (???)!
that's right, of course there wasn't any mma gyms. it's why i pointed it out and why it appeared the pieces don't fit. you stated that you trained mma, but i have apparently taken you out of context. what you meant, apparently, was that you trained in several mas.
thanks for clarification on the time line.
i find it very hard to believe that within one year of amateur boxing training, you competed in a city gg. especially at that time boxing was extremely popular and actually part of many school curriculums. there would have been many very very good amateur 15-16 yr old boxers competing in city wide gg tournaments. guys that would certainly have been trained in boxing from a very young age. it just isn't a skill you pick up in less than a year of training. even the greatest athlete of the last century, ali, took a few years.
what amateur boxing gym did you train at and what city wide golden gloves tournament did you compete in?
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Lenox Lewis is one of the most overrated fighters of all time. He was knocked silly by Klitschko, but Klitschko will never get credit because black boxers always get the push. Tito Ortiz, would take him down and elbow him into oblivion. That's assuming he's not stupid enough (or egotistical enough) to trade punches with him.
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Lenox Lewis is one of the most overrated fighters of all time. He was knocked silly by Klitschko, but Klitschko will never get credit because black boxers always get the push. Tito Ortiz, would take him down and elbow him into oblivion. That's assuming he's not stupid enough (or egotistical enough) to trade punches with him.
Lennox is actually one of the most underated fighters of all time. from here i will talk about a prime and focused lewis.
Vitali Klitschko was absolutely smashed by Lennox. He was tko'd. any time vitali wants to remember that fight he just needs to look in the mirror and count himself luck he can still see in the mirror.
a 250lb lewis is not going to find a pumped up trailer trash middlweight like tito, but even guys coming straight off the streets can ???
yes, i agree totally that IF tito manages to take down lennox, lennox is dead meat, but that is a huge IF.
lennox is of a class of striker tito has never seen before and he is far bigger and far more powerful a striker than anything tito has ever seen before. whether you choose to admit it or not, he is also an extremely gifted, well honed, focused and extremely experienced striker, an elite striker that has been the best since he was a small child. guys like tito and chuck wouldn't have survived 5 seconds in lewis' world. i'm sorry but that's the truth.
this is what would happen:
octagon is a big space and lennox will use it with lateral movement, foot work, balance, poise and athleticism you've never seen before on a heavyweight striker in the octagon/cage.
lennox will work quickly (the longer he's in there the more chance of tito getting to him), find him with the jab and drop a right hand - left hook combination on tito that will damn near kill him (with the 5 ounces i suspect it would). if tito happens to survive i guarantee it won't take long after that. lennox's combinations are absolutely brutal.
i am not a lennox guy, don't even like the man (he was painfully arrogant, shallow and conceited), not even a boxer anymore (although it is the discipline i brought with me). mind you i don't like tito either, but personalities/colour of skin have nothing to do with fighting realkarateblackbelt.
baring in mind this is my opinion, i am being honest here.
if you compare mma fighter to boxer on paper, this thread shouldn't have gone beyond 1 post, mma = more weapons = quick and decisive victory = stupid thread.
i probably should have left it there myself, but when you put 2 fighters together in the same ring there is so much more to it than what's on paper.
the subject of lennox v tito came up on another thread and i jumped on it because, despite aforementioned, i can see how this fight is going.
i based that opinion on many factors and i have stated my case more than once. i can understand being debated on it, but i'm not just talking out of my ass. i've seen plenty of both fighters and i carefully analysed what i believe would happen.
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Lenox Lewis is one of the most overrated fighters of all time. He was knocked silly by Klitschko, but Klitschko will never get credit because black boxers always get the push. Tito Ortiz, would take him down and elbow him into oblivion. That's assuming he's not stupid enough (or egotistical enough) to trade punches with him.
Over rated??? You know NOTHING about boxing. Lenox is AWESOME...has incredible skill and when he went to Emanuel he got MUCH better. The guy went through olympics, many touranments, world champ....took amazing beatings only to come back and win.
I was just watching the spike show the other day and Hughes was showing leg kicks...His kicks sucked!!! They were so bad and this is a guy that trains it...the other "pro's" also threw terrible leg kicks and a couple couldn't even stay on their feet while throwing lead kicks....PLEASE do not respond that I don't know what I'm talking about if you did not see this episode...it was with Hughes and Jens showing leg kicks.....only those that saw it last week respond.
Then I turned on HBO Mayweather and oscar and the talent level to be at the top in that game is simple phenominal......no getting around that, no one can critique anything they did, NO ONE.
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lennox is of a class of striker tito has never seen before and he is far bigger and far more powerful a striker than anything tito has ever seen before. whether you choose to admit it or not, he is also an extremely gifted, well honed, focused and extremely experienced striker, an elite striker that has been the best since he was a small child. guys like tito and chuck wouldn't have survived 5 seconds in lewis' world. i'm sorry but that's the truth.
Just bump because it is right on the money.
And for my leg kicks last post, I know you will all say , "hughes is a wrestler not a k1 guy and pulver wrestles and boxes not a k1 guy"... enough already they are very good fighters but the skill level needed to be at the top is NOT anything near what is required for boxing....Jens boxes, will he EVER become a top 3 guy? NO...but is he or was he a mma champ?
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Ortiz might have trouble with Lewis I'll give you that...
since Ortiz gives up some 35 pounds to Lewis.
Replace Ortiz with a world-class wrestler like Cotoure and Lewis will always lose. Couture will shoot FAST way below his punches and take him down. Mirko would KO Lewis with one or two kicks to the body.
And yes...most of the UFC fighters can't kick worth a damn. It's very amateurish and I feel embarrassed as a martial artist when I see that crap. That is why I specifically said fighters that can use kicks EFFECTIVELY. If you are going to employ kicks in a real fight they should be natural as a puncher punches. Otherwise you are setting yourself up for trouble. Guys like Mirko and And Hug (RIP) would beat any boxer in a K-1 style rules match, or a streetfight for that matter. And I would bet money on it!
As I said, I fought a guy that was a boxer and he charged in on me because boxers need to close range to fight. I knew this and was waiting for it. He charged in and walked right in to a high roundhouse to the head. He was dizzy on his feet and nearly fell down. I started walking away (mistake!) figuring he wouldn't want anymore but he charged again as I turned away and hit me with a quick combo, which also just dizzied me funny enough. Like him I fell half-way down (in other words if it was a boxing match they would have given us both the standing eight-count. At this point, each side broke it up and security was coming. If I followed up he would have been hurt bad, but like I said he didn't look like he would continue. That's the only street fight I didn't win, but I didn't lose either. Dude was fast as hell.
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Fedor would close, clinch, takedown and beat Lennox to a pulp.
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exactly.......but what would happen if you put boxing gloves on him and put him in a ring with boxing rules.........KO.
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agree with both of the above.
realkarateblackbelt, i'm not so sure about couture.
i have a lot of respect for couture. the guy is an absolute fighting machine imo. if couture was younger maybe, but he's too slow on the shoot for prime lennox and, no, he's not simply shooting in low. it's not that easy with a rangy striker like lennox. a young kerr or fedor maybe but not couture imo.
think of a focused belfort/liddell and how easy they caught randy and then times that by about 1000. that's the type of striker randy would be dealing with and he WILL be caught with much much harder and more accurate shots.
while we're on the subject of a prime focused belfort (a rare thing), imo he had the best hands ever seen thus far in ufc. his hands were by far his best weapon and are what got him to the top of the food chain back in his day.
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real larate. can you post a pix/video or articles of you in any sanctioned fights ? Thanks
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No. Of course not. It wasn't a sanctioned fight. It was a streetfight plain and simple. If you don't believe my personal experience fighting a boxer...let me pose this question to you: Where are all the boxers dominating K-1? K-1 is open to any stand up fighting style. Before you say, "well k-1 doesn't pay as much blah blah blah" realize that there are many boxers not making millions. Not only would they beat the crap out of all the kickers, they would establish boxing as the best once again. But this won't happen, because boxers can't beat fighters that kick effectively. And they know it!
Beast - Couture would NOT take on someone like Lennox Lewis the same way he took on Liddel. He wouldn't think about standing toe to toe. He would simply take him to the ground. That would be the "gameplan" for Couture in this hypothetical fight. In a clinch vs. a world-class wrestler(remember Couture is a fantastic wrestler) Lewis would be screwed. Grappling is his forte.
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Not to mention Chuck has great takedown defense, Lennox does not. Oh, and the thumbs, and fence grab.
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"think of a focused belfort/liddell and how easy they caught randy and then times that by about 1000. that's the type of striker randy would be dealing with and he WILL be caught with much much harder and more accurate shots."
Randy Couture fought Belfort 3 times and TKO'd him 2 of those 3 times. ::)
Also, Lewis vs. Tito/Couture would never happen because Lewis would never get into the Octagon with them. He would avoid a match like that the same way he retired to avoid a rematch with Vitali.
I'm not dissing boxing; I don't think any other fighting style could beat boxing in a straight punching match. Other stand up styles would do well close-range fighting with a boxer only if elbows/headbutting is allowed, otherwise they would have to kick them from a distance. I ENJOY watching a good boxing match more because it's a raw test of endurance and heart, with a KO at the end(usually). Boxing is pure. One man is determined to be THE BEST BOXER THAT NIGHT PERIOD, not the best at beating a certain style.
Chuck's style is tailored to beat the guys Dana puts him against. He's also marketable for Dana because he appeals to the lowlife punks and kids that are attracted to the mo-hawked "Iceman" image. I like Chuck; he's an intelligent guy and a good fighter, but he's marketed to the jackass crowd.
Again, Lewis would not get in the ring with Randy, much less beat him in a MMA match. He might beat Tito Ortiz, only because Tito looks like he just might be dumb enough to stand up with Lewis.
Remember, MMA is closer to a "real" NHB fight.
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everyone is comparing a boxer that goes to fight in an MMA fight.But everyone is ignoring the concept of a MMA fighter going in a boxing ring to fight a boxer.
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everyone is comparing a boxer that goes to fight in an MMA fight.But everyone is ignoring the concept of a MMA fighter going in a boxing ring to fight a boxer.
That's because everyone knows any mma fighter(except Belfort or Schilt) would be killed in a boxing match.
There's no argument. MOST boxers would be killed in MMA or K-1 for that matter.
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That's because everyone knows any mma fighter(except Belfort or Schilt) would be killed in a boxing match.
There's no argument. MOST boxers would be killed in MMA or K-1 for that matter.
Correction, all MMA fighters would lose in a strict boxing match against the best of the weight class. That isn't the issue, neither is the boxer versus MMA fighter in an MMA ring. If you think Belfort and Schlit would have a chance in a boxing match against a top notch boxer, then you are not as wise as you believe.
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Douchebag Meltdown.....Do you even live in Georgia? What city?
I’m finished wasting time responding to you, since you are obviously a rec. druggie brain-damaged teenager who hasn’t accomplished anything in life except strictly internet BS…and, who’s only intent is trying to continue to “bait me” with your never-ending disparaging remarks…hoping that I may respond in a fashion that you can childishly claim/brag that I’ve had a “meltdown”…duh, ugh, grunt, snort, fart, yuk, yuk, yuk!
Get your HS diploma…get into drug-rehab…GET A LIFE!
what amateur boxing gym did you train at and what city wide golden gloves tournament did you compete in?
Hello...we are discussing events that happened a looong time ago, so I don’t recall the exact-name/date of the strictly citywide/local GG tournament that I competed in. I'm sure that the qualifications/rules-for-competing-in local GG boxing events have changed considerably since I was in my middle-teens!
The “amateur boxing gym” was the Frye Institute in Chattanooga, TN (it was an United Fund organization/facility) and that building was torn-down in the 1970’s, I believe.
FINALLY, getting back on the subject, before you can “do anything” in Judo/Jiu-Jitsu, you have to master the art of breakfalling. Of course, boxers “know nothing” about breakfalling and, if you are going to allow the MMA fighter to apply throws from the clinch phase in the mixed match…then there is a good chance that the boxer, when thrown, will land on his head (and be knocked unconscious), or on his shoulder and have it dislocated…end of fight! For example, in applying Judo throws in a life-or-death self-defense situation, you try to throw your opponent so that he will land on his head!
In particular, MMA fighters with extensive Greco-Roman wrestling experience (e.g. Randy Couture and Jeff Blatnick-in his prime) would be experts at “closing the gap” on a boxer and gaining the secure advantage of an underarm clinch! If the MMA fighter can just reach this stage in the mixed-match w/o getting KO’ed, then the boxer is essentially finished!!
Just a point of interest… in military CCC training, you are taught to NEVER “throw a punch” since you are dealing with empty-handed life-and-death fighting techniques (as well). Punching is fine when your bare knuckles are adequately protected! Otherwise, you run the risk of broken metacarpals and/or infected hands (e.g. cutting your knuckes on your opponent’s teeth…why, I’ve seen infected/cut-up hands swollen up the “size of balloons” as the result of bare knuckle punches to the germ-laden mouth). Even experienced/top-level Muay-Thai fighters will tell you this, i.e. "never throw a punch in a street fight"…and they “throw thousands” of punches in their discipline!
A cardinal rule of CCC…”you can always do far more damage to your opponent with an open hand than with a closed fist!"
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I’m finished wasting time responding to you, since you are obviously a rec. druggie brain-damaged teenager who hasn’t accomplished anything in life except strictly internet BS…and, who’s only intent is trying to continue to “bait me” with your never-ending disparaging remarks…hoping that I may respond in a fashion that you can childishly claim/brag that I’ve had a “meltdown”…duh, ugh, grunt, snort, fart, yuk, yuk, yuk!
Get your HS diploma…get into drug-rehab…GET A LIFE!
Hello...we are discussing events that happened a looong time ago, so I don’t recall the exact-name/date of the strictly citywide/local GG tournament that I competed in.
The “amateur boxing gym” was the Frye Institute in Chattanooga, TN (it was an United Fund organization/facility) and that building was torn-down in the 1970’s, I believe.
FINALLY, getting back on the subject, before you can “do anything” in Judo/Jiu-Jitsu, you have to master the art of breakfalling. Of course, boxers “know nothing” about breakfalling and, if you are going to allow the MMA figher to apply throws from the clinch phase in the mixed match…then there is a good chance that the boxer, when thrown, will land on his head (and be knocked unconscious), or on his shoulder/collarbone and have it dislocated/broken…end of fight! For example, in applying Judo throws in a life-or-death self-defense situation you try to throw your opponent so that he will land on his head!
In particular, MMA fighters with extensive Greco-Roman wrestling experience (e.g. Randy Couture and Jeff Blatnick-in his prime) would be experts at “closing the gap” on a boxer and gaining the advantageous underarm clinch! If the MMA fighter can just reach this point in the mixed-match w/o getting KO’ed, then the boxer is finished!!
Just a point of interest… in military CCC training, you are taught to NEVER “throw a punch” since you are dealing with empty-handed life-and-death fighting techniques (as well). Punching is fine when your bare knuckles are adequately protected; otherwise you run the risk of broken metacarpals and/or infected hands (e.g. cutting your knuckes on your opponent’s teeth…why, I’ve seen infected hands swollen up the “size of balloons” as the result of bare knuckle punches to the mouth). Even experienced/top-level Muay-Thai fighters will tell you this…and they “throw thousands” of punches in their discipline!
A cardinal rule of CCC…”you can always do far more damage to your opponent with an open hand than with a closed fist!"
Someone who has all this documentation and photo's of his glorious lifting career surely would have the same type memorabilia of his glorious boxing/fighting career. Could you please post those pics as well. Unless you are an identity theif?
And what person your age say "duh, ugh, grunt, snort, fart, yuk, yuk, yuk!"? I'd be upset/embarrassed with my grandpa if he talked like that.
Oh and epic self preservation meltdown ;D
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Correction, all MMA fighters would lose in a strict boxing match against the best of the weight class. That isn't the issue, neither is the boxer versus MMA fighter in an MMA ring. If you think Belfort and Schlit would have a chance in a boxing match against a top notch boxer, then you are not as wise as you believe.
You didn't correct me...
I didn't say they would do well against "the best of the best"....
I said Belfort and Schilt are two guys that wouldn't get killed in boxing.
Belfort IS in fact a professional boxer. Schilt I believe could easily become a second-tier hwyt if he were so inclined.
I wouldn't have said that about Schilt before guys like Valuev.
There's a tendency on Getbig to misinterpret, or completely misquote people.
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karate, like I said, you don't know much about boxing.
ANYONE can become a "pro" in boxing....you do not even need a amatuer fight....Fact is guys like Jeff Monson ARE pro" in boxing, but couldn't win any open AMATUER heavyweight tournament in a state like NY, Chcago, Detriot, La etc...
Do you have ANY articles, videos, pix you can post of you fighting for us?
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"Legbreaker" it's becoming clear that you aren't intelligent enough to follow a conversation.
You're off in your own world.
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On the internet there are quacks and fakes...Just prove you are not and you have the backround you do. I, on the other hand, have posted names of a very well known trainer in ny wher my brother boxed. he is now head of Florida state boxing commision or on the top of the board. Just give the proof and then you will get my respect.
You mentioned a guy that was a "pro" boxer, like that was abig deal...I said it meant nothing....If you knew anything about boxing you would have realized this...
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You didn't correct me...
I didn't say they would do well against "the best of the best"....
I said Belfort and Schilt are two guys that wouldn't get killed in boxing.
Belfort IS in fact a professional boxer. Schilt I believe could easily become a second-tier hwyt if he were so inclined.
I wouldn't have said that about Schilt before guys like Valuev.
There's a tendency on Getbig to misinterpret, or completely misquote people.
Jens is a better pro boxer than Vitor. Vitor is a good MMA striker. Semmy is a good K1 level striker. Take away the front kick and he would be meat to most heavyweights.
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ahh, no, you're being a tad disingenuous there little Benny.
I didn't say Lennox would dominate in the mma at all and you know that.
you made the claim that if tito ortiz and lennox were to fight in the mma that tito would simply walk over and take prime lennox down in 1 minute.
i pointed out your lack of credibility on the issue ie tito having very poor defence (to strike) skills (everyone hits tito standing up), but he's walking through lennox? ::)
styles make fights and advantages aside (i have pointed this out soooo many times) no fucking way on the planet is tito simply shooting in on prime lennox. shit, even tito will tell you that.
What I said was a DIRECT quote from Tito when he was interviewed on Howard Stern, dumbass. ::)
As much as I dislike Tito, I agreed with his assessment of how he would make very short work of your hero Lennox in an mma fight.
So once again "little" Beast...you've been shut down, so shut the fuck up. ;)
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agree with both of the above.
realkarateblackbelt, i'm not so sure about couture.
i have a lot of respect for couture. the guy is an absolute fighting machine imo. if couture was younger maybe, but he's too slow on the shoot for prime lennox and, no, he's not simply shooting in low. it's not that easy with a rangy striker like lennox. a young kerr or fedor maybe but not couture imo.
think of a focused belfort/liddell and how easy they caught randy and then times that by about 1000. that's the type of striker randy would be dealing with and he WILL be caught with much much harder and more accurate shots.
Damn, I didn't think being this stupid was possible! :D
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What I said was a DIRECT quote from Tito when he was interviewed on Howard Stern, dumbass. ::)
As much as I dislike Tito, I agreed with his assessment of how he would make very short work of your hero Lennox in an mma fight.
So once again "little" Beast...you've been shut down, so shut the fuck up. ;)
Did he mention how good he would do in a boxing match against Lennox?
He also told everyone he would destroy Chuck.
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Is a highly trained professional boxer going to be watching his opponent's legs or feet?
I don't know, but I wouldn't think so.
After a few kicks to the side of his leg, Mayweather would be seriously compromised. This assumes that the MMA fighter would able to withstand an early onslaught of punches, of course.
Mayweather has probably dropped more than his share of guys in the so-called 'street fights' he referenced, but top-rated MMA fighters would destoy any untrained, unarmed individual in a street fight.
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Did he mention how good he would do in a boxing match against Lennox?
Why would he? He isn't a boxer and never suggested he could beat a professional boxer in boxing.
Dumbass.
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People who have never been training Muy-Thai or kickboxing don't have a clue how devastating a good hard low-kick actually is.
They think, well it's just a kick to the upper leg, how tough can that be.
Little do they know. ::) ;D
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Of course, it will "never take place" because Mayweather has "far more to lose than he has to gain in risking a mixed match!"
The latest on all of Mayweather's BS hype via a web article by Yahoo Sports' Kevin Iole...
LAS VEGAS – UFC president Dana White said Saturday he plans to make Floyd Mayweather Jr. a multi-million dollar offer to fight his lightweight champion after Mayweather's numerous putdowns of mixed martial arts fighters.
About 90 minutes after Mayweather's victory over Oscar De La Hoya, a bout in which he earned $10 million plus a cut of the pay-per-view revenues that could double that figure, White said he was prepared to match Mayweather with UFC lightweight champion Sean Sherk.
White wouldn't be pinned down on a specific number, though he said, "I promise you, I will make it worth his while. I will make it very worth his while."
White was undaunted even after hearing of Mayweather's large payday.
"I told you, we can make him a very, very competitive offer if he still feels he can beat one of our guys," White said.
White was so angry at repeated comments made by Mayweather disparaging the UFC and mixed martial artists during the buildup to his fight with De La Hoya that he brought UFC owner Lorenzo Fertitta and Sherk to the MGM Grand Garden to make a case for a fight with Mayweather.
Mayweather sent a peace offering to White via UFC vice president Marc Ratner before Saturday's bout. Mayweather told Ratner to tell White he was only kidding when he was ripping the UFC and its fighters.
"Floyd talked to Marc Ratner and he told Marc, 'Tell Dana I love him and all this talk about the UFC was just hype,' " White said. "Floyd and I used to be really close and I was kind of disappointed and (ticked) off with the way he was talking."
As for Sherk, White said, "He loved being here and seeing the atmosphere, and I think he left here believing he'd beat the living (expletive) out of the guy if he ever got the chance."
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Jens is a better pro boxer than Vitor. Vitor is a good MMA striker. Semmy is a good K1 level striker. Take away the front kick and he would be meat to most heavyweights.
Are you trying to disagree or agree? What's your point? ???
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Why would he? He isn't a boxer and never suggested he could beat a professional boxer in boxing.
Dumbass.
Then why is there an argument the other way around? If a boxer can't beat an mma fighter in a UFC fight and an mma fighter can't beat boxer in a boxing match, what the f*ck is the argument?
You need to just talk about them separately then. And how hard is it to teach a good athletic boxer a sprawl? Some of you act like it takes years to perfect.
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Then why is there an argument the other way around? If a boxer can't beat an mma fighter in a UFC fight and an mma fighter can't beat boxer in a boxing match, what the f*ck is the argument?
You need to just talk about them separately then. And how hard is it to teach a good athletic boxer a sprawl? Some of you act like it takes years to perfect.
It's pretty simple dude. People want to see how well a boxer would do in a UFC fight because the UFC is closer to a real streetfight. That is why the UFC got started in the first place(besides being a BJJ promotion)...to see how different styles would fare in a real NHB fight, hence "mixed-martial-arts." Meaning a mixture of styles competing.
The boxer lost to a straight up grappler in that tourney. :)
In other words...people want to see how well a boxer would do against a martial-artist in a street fight. That's the core of it. :)
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Why does everyone want a boxer to fight in a MMA fight? How come Dana White and his bullshit machine isn't taking one of his guy to the boxing ring to prove they are the best fighters there? Everyone want HOUSE rules.
This argument is getting really fucking old. It's the same shit, "all an MMA guys would have to do is take a boxer to the ground and own him". That's a chickenshit answer. Then they pussy reply is "well a MMA fighter couldn't make it past a boxers blazing hand speed and would be knocked out." Again a chickenshit answer.
You want the best fighter in the world, then put two guys on a big mat. No ropes or bullshit cage to pin you opponent too. Then go. No fucking time limit and no bullshit rules. The first guy unconscious loses. It will never happen outside of bullshit cockfights after hours behind a shit redneck bar so quite pissing and moaning.
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Why does everyone want a boxer to fight in a MMA fight? How come Dana White and his bullshit machine isn't taking one of his guy to the boxing ring to prove they are the best fighters there? Everyone want HOUSE rules.
This argument is getting really fucking old. It's the same shit, "all an MMA guys would have to do is take a boxer to the ground and own him". That's a chickenshit answer. Then they pussy reply is "well a MMA fighter couldn't make it past a boxers blazing hand speed and would be knocked out." Again a chickenshit answer.
You want the best fighter in the world, then put two guys on a big mat. No ropes or bullshit cage to pin you opponent too. Then go. No fucking time limit and no bullshit rules. The first guy unconscious loses. It will never happen outside of bullshit cockfights after hours behind a shit redneck bar so quite pissing and moaning.
Have you not read this thread ??? Your question has been answered multiple times ::)
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For all I know, White paid Mayweather to talk all this smack in order to elevate the UFC's profile.
I watched Pride during lunch today and hands down, they've got two of the best announcers in SPORTS. That's gotta be worth something.
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Why does everyone want a boxer to fight in a MMA fight? How come Dana White and his bullshit machine isn't taking one of his guy to the boxing ring to prove they are the best fighters there? Everyone want HOUSE rules.
This argument is getting really fucking old. It's the same shit, "all an MMA guys would have to do is take a boxer to the ground and own him". That's a chickenshit answer. Then they pussy reply is "well a MMA fighter couldn't make it past a boxers blazing hand speed and would be knocked out." Again a chickenshit answer.
You want the best fighter in the world, then put two guys on a big mat. No ropes or bullshit cage to pin you opponent too. Then go. No fucking time limit and no bullshit rules. The first guy unconscious loses. It will never happen outside of bullshit cockfights after hours behind a shit redneck bar so quite pissing and moaning.
Spoken like a real internet expert.
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Have you not read this thread ??? Your question has been answered multiple times ::)
Then what's the answer?
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Spoken like a real internet expert.
Thanks. ;D
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Are you trying to disagree or agree? What's your point? ???
I agree with the assertion that an MMA fighter would beat a boxer in an MMA match. I don't agree with the examples you have listed that could be good boxers.
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I said those two wouldn't get killed in a boxing ring. Belfort won at least one pro fight.
I didn't say they would be "good."
I do think Semmy could be a second-tier heavyweight if he tried.