Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Injury and Rehabilitation => Topic started by: WOOO on August 08, 2007, 06:00:33 PM
-
...
-
Hi Woooooo! :)
-
First excersise would be bodyweight hyper extensions.
Go easy with it of course, try to build up core strength.
Second, do pulldowns of some kind.
As the third and final excersise, find a rowing machine with support for the chest, so you won't have to use the lower back for support when pulling, eg a Hammer Strength one arm row.
Finish off with ab work, and make sure to include some kind of twisting motion, helps stabilise the core.
JMO.
-
First excersise would be bodyweight hyper extensions.
Go easy with it of course, try to build up core strength.
Second, do pulldowns of some kind.
As the third and final excersise, find a rowing machine with support for the chest, so you won't have to use the lower back for support when pulling, eg a Hammer Strength one arm row.
Finish off with ab work, and make sure to include some kind of twisting motion, helps stabilise the core.
JMO.
No, no, no.........NEVER hypers after a lay off of injuring your back, especially if it involves lower lumbar.
-
----- Dear Mods, yes I know this needs to be moved to the training board... can you wait 20 minutes and then move it please? ------
So I am back in the gym after a layoff to recover...
...but I have messed my back up permanently...
...I have sharp pain in the lumbar region when I do deads, top-deads or bent over barbells
HERE IS MY QUESTION:
What exercise can I start my back workout instead?
I did heavy dumbbell rows today...
Please help ;D
The first and obvious questions should be is: 1. How did you PERMINANTLY injur your back. and 2. What are the injuries?
-
First excersise would be bodyweight hyper extensions.
Go easy with it of course, try to build up core strength.
Second, do pulldowns of some kind.
As the third and final excersise, find a rowing machine with support for the chest, so you won't have to use the lower back for support when pulling, eg a Hammer Strength one arm row.
Finish off with ab work, and make sure to include some kind of twisting motion, helps stabilise the core.
JMO.
Actually...what you should do is strengthen up three muscles to start anything...
1) The multifidi muscles (small muscles connecting vertebrae)
2) The transverse abdominus muscle
3) The Rhomboids
Multifidi and transverse abdominus muscles are quickly inactivated upon injury to the low back. So, I woudl be doing things like abdominal bracing, multifidi hip hikes, quadratus lumborum contractions, and stretching out the psoas muscle (deep hip flexor) in your case to strengthen up the core. I dont think I woudl recommend doing hyperextensions at this point due to the fact you have sharp pain which can indicate a nerve root involvement.
-
i slipped a disc... L$... doing bent over rows with 405 like a moron... today i deadlifted up to 5 plates and it was ok, but when i was fricken unloading the bar i felt the same friggen twinge... i know that if i stay on this path i will permanently cripple myself and give that i am still in my prime at 29 i need a solution...
P.S. A disc CAN NOT slip. It would be easier for your tire to fall off while driving that for a disc to slip out of place.
I am not advocating doing 1-arm twisting BOSU ball squats type of core training....but I would do something to make sure that your core is worked properly. The term "core" is becoming a bastardized word now-a-days. Go search for the book "Core Performance" by Mark Verstegen. You can find it used for like $10. He runs a VERY PROMINANT training facility here in Tempe. He works with high level athletes....so, take a look at his book and I am sure you will come up with some good ideas on how to fix yourself.
-
i slipped a disc... L$... doing bent over rows with 405 like a moron... today i deadlifted up to 5 plates and it was ok, but when i was fricken unloading the bar i felt the same friggen twinge... i know that if i stay on this path i will permanently cripple myself and give that i am still in my prime at 29 i need a solution...
I deal with this alot with my own clients and especially my athletes and what I'm going to say, you're not going to like, but I'll try to explain it so it will make sense.
Even though your primary muscles are strong enough to pull the weight, you're stabilizers haven't recovered enough to sustain the pulling of your primary muscles, you stabilizer in this case would be your psoas, it's the muscle that runs from the lower lumbar to almost your adductor
(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e196/Intenseone/psoas.jpg)
the only way to strengthen your low back and psoas to get back your original strength is to train your low back indirectly by doing unilateral leg training (light and progressivly working heavier) then after a 2-3 weeks progressing to two legs then eventually adding loads. incorporating core work such as working transverse abdominus will also be a huge benefit.
-
my core is fine dudes... i just need to keep building my back...
and the disc bulged, slipped and just generally hurt like shit, so take your encyclopedia and shove it ;D
Your lower back is part of your core, it obviously isn't fine.
-
i slipped a disc... L$... doing bent over rows with 405 like a moron... today i deadlifted up to 5 plates and it was ok, but when i was fricken unloading the bar i felt the same friggen twinge... i know that if i stay on this path i will permanently cripple myself and give that i am still in my prime at 29 i need a solution...
If your not going to listen, then what's the sense of asking, I gave you a solution. Your lower back is part of your posterior chain, if thats not strengthend the right way then you can expect injurys and after recovering from a previous injury, you can expect them more frequently!
-
No, no, no.........NEVER hypers after a lay off of injuring your back, especially if it involves lower lumbar.
You're aware that the hyper is used in back rehab?
Even better is something called the reverse hyperextension. The upper body is locked while the legs are lifted.
-
You're aware that the hyper is used in back rehab?
Even better is something called the reverse hyperextension. The upper body is locked while the legs are lifted.
This I would agree with...the reverse hypers. In a general low back case the facet joint will often be irritated and you have the possibility of a posterior bulge in a disc. By doing a standard hyper, this will only add to the irritation as compression in a superior to inferior direction will sometimes exacerbate the condition. This is the reason for reverse hypers as the load comes from the legs....not the torso.
As far as the psoas is concerned....I disagree in that the hip flexors are generally stronger and over facilitated in people now a days. Most of the people with any sort of low back issues exhibit similar patters to a lower cross syndrome where in the hamstrings, erector spinae , piriformis, quadratus lumborum, adductors, tensor fascia latae, rectus femoris and the iliopsoas are over facilitated. The weak/inhibited ones are the gluteals, vastus medialis, vastus lateralis, transversus and the rectus abdominis. Along with that the tight hamstrings will add extra "pull" on the pelvis due to the fact that the majority of fibers insert into the sacro-tuberus ligament.
Now Wooo.....Coach seems to know his shit.....and is trying to give you some sound advice. Yet, you dotn seem to want to listen. You hurt yourself, and you need to rehab your back. YOU are the one who is retarded and will not listen. You like 80% of the athletes that come into my office for treatment. YOu whine and cry about your injury and when given a solution you think people are bullshittting you and holding back from giving you the "holy grail" of exercises that will magically fix you . This is why I dont exactly like treating athletes as patients.
Woo.....go and read up on things by Paul Chek....tell him he is full of shit!
-
Yes, absolutely I would agree with reverse hypers, but the problem is that reverse hyper machines are few and far between in regular gyms but go to almost major university and they're all over the place.
-
Yes, absolutely I would agree with reverse hypers, but the problem is that reverse hyper machines are few and far between in regular gyms but go to almost major university and they're all over the place.
Take a bench....medium-sized exercise ball....person is perpendicular to a bench...lay prone on the ball and grasp the edges of the bench for stability. I do them as Poliquin suggests.....fast concentric, slow eccentric. Reps upwards of 15 - 20. Even just lying on the ball with the legs hanging is a great stretch for the low back. Having someone lying there for 20 - 30 seconds you will see the feet actually drop and get closer to the floor. Try it....its awesome.
-
Woo.....go and read up on things by Paul Chek....tell him he is full of shit!
I studied and worked under Paul..he ain't full of shit!!! ;D
-
I studied and worked under Paul..he ain't full of shit!!! ;D
I agree.....we just ordered his core course!
-
I agree.....we just ordered his core course!
prepare for your brain to slowly melt....
His scientific back training is great as well...both courses are the foundations of his philosophy...
If you start taking any of his certification courses, you will learn more than you could handle......shit is insane.
-
god you dorks bore me... i was looking for a power exercise... the original injury happened 2 years ago... rehab is not an option
i wanted suggestions for power movements that i can begin the workout with... nothing else...
and yet you still insist on offering something else...
ijits
What you are doing and what you are asking for is a sure recipe for permanent re-injury. The advice thus far is on target.
-
What you are doing and what you are asking for is a sure recipe for permanent re-injury. The advice thus far is on target.
i am permanently injured... it will never go back to what it was when i was competing as a lifter...
anyway, i am done with this sub-board :-X
-
This I would agree with...the reverse hypers. In a general low back case the facet joint will often be irritated and you have the possibility of a posterior bulge in a disc. By doing a standard hyper, this will only add to the irritation as compression in a superior to inferior direction will sometimes exacerbate the condition. This is the reason for reverse hypers as the load comes from the legs....not the torso.
As far as the psoas is concerned....I disagree in that the hip flexors are generally stronger and over facilitated in people now a days. Most of the people with any sort of low back issues exhibit similar patters to a lower cross syndrome where in the hamstrings, erector spinae , piriformis, quadratus lumborum, adductors, tensor fascia latae, rectus femoris and the iliopsoas are over facilitated. The weak/inhibited ones are the gluteals, vastus medialis, vastus lateralis, transversus and the rectus abdominis. Along with that the tight hamstrings will add extra "pull" on the pelvis due to the fact that the majority of fibers insert into the sacro-tuberus ligament.
Now Wooo.....Coach seems to know his shit.....and is trying to give you some sound advice. Yet, you dotn seem to want to listen. You hurt yourself, and you need to rehab your back. YOU are the one who is retarded and will not listen. You like 80% of the athletes that come into my office for treatment. YOu whine and cry about your injury and when given a solution you think people are bullshittting you and holding back from giving you the "holy grail" of exercises that will magically fix you . This is why I dont exactly like treating athletes as patients.
Woo.....go and read up on things by Paul Chek....tell him he is full of shit!
I'm pre-habbing a couple of basketball players with the reverse hyper currently.
Since we don't have a reverse hyper machine, we use an ancient hyper extension, you know the kind that looks like a skeleton with a couple of seatbelts over it.
Work in pairs to give extra resistance when needed. Tremendous results.
-
Even better is something called the reverse hyperextension. The upper body is locked while the legs are lifted.
I find that targets the glutes predominantly :-\
-
I find that targets the glutes predominantly :-\
Duly noted. :-*
-
I studied and worked under Paul..he ain't full of shit!!! ;D
While Chek is a little eccentric, he knows his shit. I had the opportunity to work with Mike Boyle and Don Chu. If you go to Boyles site and forum, the info on rehab and training, I find to be some of the best knowledge on the net. Mostly sports physical therapists and S&C trainers that post. One of my favorite sites.
http://www.michaelboyle.biz/forum/
-
let me spell this out for you because you are obviously retarded or mexican or something...
B A C K E X E R C I S E P L E A S E...
::)
Ok screw it, do what you want.
Start with HEAVY good mornings, then go to HEAVY deads, then go to HEAVY squats, follow that up with HEAVY bent rows, then finish with HEAVY walking lunges for 100 yards. If that doesn't fuck up your back and make you happy nothing will!!
-
Ok screw it, do what you want.
Start with HEAVY good mornings, then go to HEAVY deads, then go to HEAVY squats, follow that up with HEAVY bent rows, then finish with HEAVY walking lunges for 100 yards. If that doesn't fuck your back and make you happy nothing will!!
this answer is closer to what i was looking for then anything else you offered.
weakling
-
this answer is closer to what i was looking for then anything else you offered.
weakling
LOL........great, glad I can help...LOL
-
i am permanently injured... it will never go back to what it was when i was competing as a lifter...
anyway, i am done with this sub-board :-X
Cry me a river......geezus.....pu t your skirt back on and go hit a pilates class.
You: I want help with injury x
Us: well, to heal injury x you need to do abc
You: but I dont want to do abc....I want 123
Us: trust us....you should do abc. Its our profession.....we can help.
You: I want 123.....or red, blue, green.
Us: Fine...our help is obviously unwanted.....go hurt yourself again bitch.
-
I'm pre-habbing a couple of basketball players with the reverse hyper currently.
Since we don't have a reverse hyper machine, we use an ancient hyper extension, you know the kind that looks like a skeleton with a couple of seatbelts over it.
Work in pairs to give extra resistance when needed. Tremendous results.
Try doing it like I said with the exercise ball. You will see its AWESOME.
We put the ball on a bench....and the person is basically laying on the ball perpendicular to the bench. Oh, and Woo.....would you tell Louie Simmons or Charles Poliquin that they are dorks or dumb asses if they told you this stuff?
-
Try doing it like I said with the exercise ball. You will see its AWESOME.
Will certainly. Thanks man.
-
Try doing it like I said with the exercise ball. You will see its AWESOME.
We put the ball on a bench....and the person is basically laying on the ball perpendicular to the bench. Oh, and Woo.....would you tell Louie Simmons or Charles Poliquin that they are dorks or dumb asses if they told you this stuff?
Ok, I was confused on how you described it, yes those are great, we do them quite a bit, also, for a little more resistance, try them off a bench or a 45 degree incline facing down towards the seat (after a progression of course)
-
Cry me a river......geezus.....pu t your skirt back on and go hit a pilates class.
You: I want help with injury x
Us: well, to heal injury x you need to do abc
You: but I dont want to do abc....I want 123
Us: trust us....you should do abc. Its our profession.....we can help.
You: I want 123.....or red, blue, green.
Us: Fine...our help is obviously unwanted.....go hurt yourself again bitch.
haha...the ironic thing is under his avatar it says: " We have enough youth, how bout a fountain of smart"....obviously he is right.
-
Try doing it like I said with the exercise ball. You will see its AWESOME.
We put the ball on a bench....and the person is basically laying on the ball perpendicular to the bench. Oh, and Woo.....would you tell Louie Simmons or Charles Poliquin that they are dorks or dumb asses if they told you this stuff?
Paul Chek highly recommends the Vertical & Horizontal Horse Stances. This is great for the multifidus muscles and really helps with strength and posture for the back.
-
Paul Chek highly recommends the Vertical & Horizontal Horse Stances. This is great for the multifidus muscles and really helps with strength and posture for the back.
We actually do those, but call them prone-tracking. We like working the multifidi by having the people prone with head turned to either side, then with their arms out to the side they "hike" or "pull" their hips in the inferior to suprior plane towards the ipsilateral armpit. Key thing is to not allow or minimize the ASIS from coming off the ground. Its a small but strong contraction of the multifidi.