Author Topic: Zimmerman - charged and pics of gash on head  (Read 81259 times)

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Re: Zimmerman - charged and pics of gash on head
« Reply #500 on: April 24, 2012, 07:05:29 PM »
Then what's first degree?
Pre-meditated
2nd degree is killing with intent and malice, but may not have been pre-planned. Ala seeing someone you hate all alone and shooting cause your mad at something they did.

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Re: Zimmerman - charged and pics of gash on head
« Reply #501 on: April 24, 2012, 07:06:33 PM »
Then what's first degree?

Usually pre meditation as well as the offense being committed on a judge, le agent, double homicide, etc.

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Re: Zimmerman - charged and pics of gash on head
« Reply #502 on: April 24, 2012, 07:07:13 PM »
Last week, media outlets filed motions to unseal the records concerning the arrest of George Zimmerman in connection with the shooting death of Trayvon Martin. Sooner than later, the public will see what evidence special prosecutor Angela Corey has that warranted the filing of second-degree murder charges.

Absent something new in Corey's file, one of America's best-known lawyers feels the case against Zimmerman is doomed. Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz believes that the murder charges will be thrown out.

In a recent interview with me, Dershowitz acknowledged the low evidentiary bar necessary at this juncture but still opined that Corey has not met it.

"Most affidavits of probable cause are very thin," Dershowitz said. "This is so thin that it won't make it past the judge on a second-degree murder charge. There is simply nothing in there that would justify second-degree murder. The elements of the crime aren't established ...

"There is nothing in there, of course, either about the stains on the back of Zimmerman's shirt, the blood on the back of his head, the bloody nose, all of that. It's not only thin, it's irresponsible. I think that what you have here is an elected public official who made a campaign speech ... for re-election when she gave her presentation, and overcharged, way overcharged. ...

"If the evidence is no stronger than what appears in the probable-cause affidavit, this case will result in an acquittal."

Nothing offered by the prosecution at last week's bond hearing contradicts what Dershowitz told me. In fact, when investigator Dale Gilbreath, who signed the affidavit, was asked what proof he had that Zimmerman was the instigator, he offered absolutely no evidence.

Corey's two-page "Affidavit of Probable Cause -- Second Degree Murder" says Martin "was profiled by George Zimmerman. Martin was unarmed and was not committing a crime."

The affidavit also says that in his recorded call to police, Zimmerman, "while talking about Martin ... stated 'these a-- , they always get away.'"

And, the affidavit says, when the dispatcher instructed Zimmerman not to pursue Martin, "Zimmerman disregarded the police dispatcher and continued to follow Martin, who was trying to return to his home."

What the affidavit does not reveal is what, specifically, began the physical confrontation. Here is the critical paragraph:

"Zimmerman confronted Martin, and a struggle ensued. Witnesses heard people arguing and what sounded like a struggle. During this time period, witnesses heard numerous calls for help, and some of these were recorded in 911 calls to police. Trayvon Martin's mother has reviewed the 911 calls, identified the voice crying for help as Trayvon Martin's."

Confronted and a struggle ensued? Ensued how? Provoked by whom? And where Zimmerman presumably has told Sanford police that Martin was the initiator, what evidence does the prosecution have to refute him -- with Martin himself silenced? The affidavit does not say.

Commenting on the absence of this information, Dershowitz told me: "But it's worse than that. It's irresponsible and unethical, not including the material that favors the defendant, unless it's not true. But if it's true, as we now have learned from other information, that the grass stains are in back of Zimmerman's shirt, that there were bruises on his head, you must put that in an affidavit. The affidavit has to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth."

Dershowitz acknowledges that "probable cause is a very minimal standard. It just means if everything you say turns out to be true, have the elements of the crime been satisfied? ... This affidavit doesn't even make it to probable cause. Everything in the affidavit is completely consistent with a defense of self-defense. Everything."

Conventional wisdom holds that a critical pretrial moment will come when the defense argues a motion to dismiss the case on the "stand-your-ground" law (which will render Zimmerman immune from prosecution if by a preponderance of evidence he can show that he "reasonably believed" using deadly force was necessary to prevent death or great bodily harm).

But if Dershowitz is right, the case won't make it that far. The affidavit suggests that Zimmerman was the provocateur with its references to his profiling, slurs and refusal to follow law enforcement advice ("we don't need you to do that"). But even if Zimmerman was the initiator, he will still maintain some right of self-defense.

"So, there is nothing in this affidavit -- and I've read it quite carefully -- that suggests the crime. It suggests the possibility of a crime, but a good judge will throw this out," according to Dershowitz.

When Sanford police initially investigated the case, they referred to it as a potential case of "manslaughter," but then declined to prosecute, at which point Gov. Rick Scott appointed Corey to investigate.

Manslaughter means the outcome was unintended. Murder, with which Corey charged Zimmerman, means he meant to kill Martin and acted with a "depraved mind." Unless the prosecution has an eyewitness to support such a claim, it is difficult to see how it will be sustained. We should soon find out.


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2876148/posts


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Re: Zimmerman - charged and pics of gash on head
« Reply #503 on: April 24, 2012, 07:15:45 PM »
They practically handed him an aquittal by charging him with 2nd degree murder. Manslaughter they might have pulled off, but not murder. Stupid ass move by a prosecutor thinking she had a slam dunk case based on public opinion, probably thinking this would be her "case of the year" for her career.

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Re: Zimmerman - charged and pics of gash on head
« Reply #504 on: April 24, 2012, 07:18:25 PM »
Does "Double Jeopardy" apply if they blow the 2nd degree prosecution?

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Re: Zimmerman - charged and pics of gash on head
« Reply #505 on: April 24, 2012, 07:24:02 PM »
Does "Double Jeopardy" apply if they blow the 2nd degree prosecution?
Yup. They said something about that in one of the above articles - if they botch this, he can never be brought up on charges for it again.

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Re: Zimmerman - charged and pics of gash on head
« Reply #506 on: April 24, 2012, 07:26:23 PM »
What a silly move.

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Re: Zimmerman - charged and pics of gash on head
« Reply #507 on: April 24, 2012, 07:31:51 PM »
What a silly move.
Completely retarded on the prosecution's part - a huge break for Zimmerman.
I dont really know how to feel on the subject. If the prosecution comes out with some crazy unheard of evidence that he's guilty, than I hope he goes away.
But from all the evidence thats come out, the prosecution admitting they cant prove him wrong,... I think he can, and should walk.

At this point I feel like this was turned into a witch hunt for ratings and it seems that while the guy probably shouldnt have followed the dude, they HAVE had a string of serious crimes and break-ins in the neighborhood and the cops had never shown up in time or caught anyone, and they just kept happening.
If the cops dont do their job, this kind of shit is bound to happen.
And since their isnt enough evidence to prove that he was lieing or that he was guilty, I hope the dude walks. Unless, like I said, some crazy evidence is brought out proving his guilt.
The worst will be if they have no evidence but he gets put away for murder anyway, but no one can see that happening short of Goodrum.

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Re: Zimmerman - charged and pics of gash on head
« Reply #508 on: April 24, 2012, 08:04:46 PM »
Hell the prosecutor admitted she cant prove his story wrong, not enough evidence. Guess what, thats your reasonable doubt right there. This isnt going anywhere and Zimmerman would be an idiot to make a plea bargain.

Youre arguing MORALITY, not LAW. Is what youre accusing him of morally right? Maybe, maybe not. Is it illegal? Hell no.


There's not enough evidence because the only witness is dead....but this is not going to be another Casey Anthony trial.  All of which doesn't matter because I can pretty much garrantee that he will plead to a lesser charge.


He's not going to roll the dice
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Re: Zimmerman - charged and pics of gash on head
« Reply #509 on: April 24, 2012, 08:06:53 PM »

because I can pretty much garrantee

This is not a spelling contest!

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Re: Zimmerman - charged and pics of gash on head
« Reply #510 on: April 24, 2012, 08:13:11 PM »
Trial of George Zimmerman Could Trigger Another Rodney King
The Daily Beast ^ | April 18, 2012 | Mansfield Frazier
Posted on April 18, 2012 2:27:43 AM EDT by 2ndDivisionVet

Trayvon Martin’s shooter has a new lawyer. Mansfield Frazier hopes he’s advising his client to take a plea, since a protracted murder trial is the last thing we need.

As George Zimmerman faces murder charges for shooting Trayvon Martin, it’s worth asking if America is in danger of facing Rodney King, Part II?

That’s what I see down the tracks: If this case goes all the way to trial, it’s a train wreck waiting to happen. The time is now for strong hands to take the helm and steady the ship of state—not to mention our national racial, political and legal discourse. The paramount concern has to be to avert a large-scale racial calamity.

As Touré recently wrote, if sane adults are not careful, deliberate and measured in the handling of the Trayvon Martin-George Zimmerman affair, a dark time could descend upon America.

Look what’s already festering on the streets of Sanford, Florida. On the one hand we’ve got the three stooges of the New Black Panther Party running around Sanford, spouting off crazy ideas and becoming a total embarrassment to more thoughtful and reasoning blacks who simply want justice. On the other we’ve got the equally clownish neo-Nazis, goose-stepping around on their self-appointed mission to protect the white race. In this environment it wouldn’t take much to ignite the racial power keg we’re sitting on. One false or ill-conceived move in this case could allow the loony inmates—not Zimmerman’s current neighbors, but those who are imprisoned by their long-simmering racial hatreds—to fan the incendiary flames of bigotry into full-blown conflagrations of violence across the land.

As someone who watched the King riots unfold from a Los Angeles motel window (and sometimes from the balcony, when we weren’t too afraid to venture out), I’m here to tell you it was a nightmarish time. Thick, acrid black smoke from hundreds of fires hung over the L.A. basin for days as young, armed blacks and Hispanics roared around in open convertibles and jeeps, wearing bandannas and brandishing all sorts of weaponry. We could hear gunfire both in the distance and nearby. Stores that hadn’t been set on fire the first day were looted by the second, and by the third day TV stations were warning of an impending food shortage. A body lay in the gutter on Crenshaw Boulevard for the better part of two days before National Guard troops removed it.

We don’t want to go back there. Fortunately Zimmerman’s new attorney, Mark O’Mara, appears to comprehend the broader implications and potential danger of the situation, and seems well qualified to negotiate a fair outcome for his client, and indeed for the rest of us. He has the calm demeanor of a law professor, and speaks in measured, but not calculating, terms. His first comments seemed designed not to convince anyone of his client’s innocence, but rather to take the heated rhetoric down a few notches. He cautioned that everyone should allow the justice system to work.

So what would a fair outcome look like? To my mind, the government offers Zimmerman a plea deal that has him back on the street within this decade, and he accepts it quietly. That seems like a conclusion most reasonable Americans could live with. Of course, no matter how long or short any sentence may be, there will be those who disagree, some vehemently.

If O’Mara were successful in brokering such a resolution, he should be viewed as nothing less than a savior. A protracted murder trial of George Zimmerman is the last thing this country needs right now. America can only dodge so many racial bullets, and a not-guilty verdict in this case could very easily turn the racial cold war into a very hot one.

Of course, for such a plea scenario to work, Zimmerman will need to listen more to O’Mara than to any of the other voices clamoring for a piece of him. He’s in isolation right now, presumably for his own safety, but a side benefit is that it keeps the more rabid right-wingers from getting inside his head and convincing him to take the case to trial, based on the belief that no matter what the evidence shows, in Florida at least one juror will never vote to convict. Unfortunately, this reasoning is not crazy. The South, after all, is still the South.

But after a few weeks of isolation and the counsel of O’Mara, Zimmerman may decide going to trial isn’t in his best interest. If O’Mara is as savvy as he seems, he will probably inform his client of the stark legal facts: The state overcharged him with murder 2 for two reasons: it’s a bargaining chip to force him to accept a lesser charge, and a means to keep him locked up pretrial. The way the legal system is designed, it’s difficult for someone being held in custody to win acquittal. Even if he went to trial and managed to get a hung jury, the state would surely retry him (multiple times, if necessary), until they get a conviction or he’s spent more time in the county lockup than he would have spent in prison if he’d just pleaded guilty in the first place. And even if he were acquitted, let’s not forget the specter of a federal indictment being handed down.

In all of this, the upcoming bail hearing is key: If the judge doesn’t grant bail, Zimmerman had better start listening real intently to his lawyer.

The wild card is his father, Robert, who has so far sounded like a knee-jerk far-right ideologue. In an interview he said, "I never foresaw so much hate coming from the president, the Congressional Black Caucus, the NAACP," and this was before Obama said anything about the case! It will be virtually impossible to keep Robert Zimmerman away from his son, which means he’ll have ample opportunity to whisper Stand Your Ground rhetoric into his ear, possibly ginning up Zimmerman’s courage and convincing him to go to trial in spite of the danger of being convicted.

We all need to pray that Mark O’Mara is successful in bringing about a fair outcome for his client, for justice, and, more important, for America.



Vince G, CSN MFT

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Re: Zimmerman - charged and pics of gash on head
« Reply #511 on: April 24, 2012, 08:16:58 PM »
Trial of George Zimmerman Could Trigger Another Rodney King
The Daily Beast ^ | April 18, 2012 | Mansfield Frazier
Posted on April 18, 2012 2:27:43 AM EDT by 2ndDivisionVet

Trayvon Martin’s shooter has a new lawyer. Mansfield Frazier hopes he’s advising his client to take a plea, since a protracted murder trial is the last thing we need.

As George Zimmerman faces murder charges for shooting Trayvon Martin, it’s worth asking if America is in danger of facing Rodney King, Part II?

That’s what I see down the tracks: If this case goes all the way to trial, it’s a train wreck waiting to happen. The time is now for strong hands to take the helm and steady the ship of state—not to mention our national racial, political and legal discourse. The paramount concern has to be to avert a large-scale racial calamity.

As Touré recently wrote, if sane adults are not careful, deliberate and measured in the handling of the Trayvon Martin-George Zimmerman affair, a dark time could descend upon America.

Look what’s already festering on the streets of Sanford, Florida. On the one hand we’ve got the three stooges of the New Black Panther Party running around Sanford, spouting off crazy ideas and becoming a total embarrassment to more thoughtful and reasoning blacks who simply want justice. On the other we’ve got the equally clownish neo-Nazis, goose-stepping around on their self-appointed mission to protect the white race. In this environment it wouldn’t take much to ignite the racial power keg we’re sitting on. One false or ill-conceived move in this case could allow the loony inmates—not Zimmerman’s current neighbors, but those who are imprisoned by their long-simmering racial hatreds—to fan the incendiary flames of bigotry into full-blown conflagrations of violence across the land.

As someone who watched the King riots unfold from a Los Angeles motel window (and sometimes from the balcony, when we weren’t too afraid to venture out), I’m here to tell you it was a nightmarish time. Thick, acrid black smoke from hundreds of fires hung over the L.A. basin for days as young, armed blacks and Hispanics roared around in open convertibles and jeeps, wearing bandannas and brandishing all sorts of weaponry. We could hear gunfire both in the distance and nearby. Stores that hadn’t been set on fire the first day were looted by the second, and by the third day TV stations were warning of an impending food shortage. A body lay in the gutter on Crenshaw Boulevard for the better part of two days before National Guard troops removed it.

We don’t want to go back there. Fortunately Zimmerman’s new attorney, Mark O’Mara, appears to comprehend the broader implications and potential danger of the situation, and seems well qualified to negotiate a fair outcome for his client, and indeed for the rest of us. He has the calm demeanor of a law professor, and speaks in measured, but not calculating, terms. His first comments seemed designed not to convince anyone of his client’s innocence, but rather to take the heated rhetoric down a few notches. He cautioned that everyone should allow the justice system to work.

So what would a fair outcome look like? To my mind, the government offers Zimmerman a plea deal that has him back on the street within this decade, and he accepts it quietly. That seems like a conclusion most reasonable Americans could live with. Of course, no matter how long or short any sentence may be, there will be those who disagree, some vehemently.

If O’Mara were successful in brokering such a resolution, he should be viewed as nothing less than a savior. A protracted murder trial of George Zimmerman is the last thing this country needs right now. America can only dodge so many racial bullets, and a not-guilty verdict in this case could very easily turn the racial cold war into a very hot one.

Of course, for such a plea scenario to work, Zimmerman will need to listen more to O’Mara than to any of the other voices clamoring for a piece of him. He’s in isolation right now, presumably for his own safety, but a side benefit is that it keeps the more rabid right-wingers from getting inside his head and convincing him to take the case to trial, based on the belief that no matter what the evidence shows, in Florida at least one juror will never vote to convict. Unfortunately, this reasoning is not crazy. The South, after all, is still the South.

But after a few weeks of isolation and the counsel of O’Mara, Zimmerman may decide going to trial isn’t in his best interest. If O’Mara is as savvy as he seems, he will probably inform his client of the stark legal facts: The state overcharged him with murder 2 for two reasons: it’s a bargaining chip to force him to accept a lesser charge, and a means to keep him locked up pretrial. The way the legal system is designed, it’s difficult for someone being held in custody to win acquittal. Even if he went to trial and managed to get a hung jury, the state would surely retry him (multiple times, if necessary), until they get a conviction or he’s spent more time in the county lockup than he would have spent in prison if he’d just pleaded guilty in the first place. And even if he were acquitted, let’s not forget the specter of a federal indictment being handed down.

In all of this, the upcoming bail hearing is key: If the judge doesn’t grant bail, Zimmerman had better start listening real intently to his lawyer.

The wild card is his father, Robert, who has so far sounded like a knee-jerk far-right ideologue. In an interview he said, "I never foresaw so much hate coming from the president, the Congressional Black Caucus, the NAACP," and this was before Obama said anything about the case! It will be virtually impossible to keep Robert Zimmerman away from his son, which means he’ll have ample opportunity to whisper Stand Your Ground rhetoric into his ear, possibly ginning up Zimmerman’s courage and convincing him to go to trial in spite of the danger of being convicted.

We all need to pray that Mark O’Mara is successful in bringing about a fair outcome for his client, for justice, and, more important, for America.





There won't be no fucking riot.....there was a video that show the officers clearly beating the shit out of Rodney King and they were still found not guilty despite the clear and obvious evidence.  This is hardly the same
A

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Re: Zimmerman - charged and pics of gash on head
« Reply #512 on: April 24, 2012, 08:18:30 PM »

There won't be no fucking riot.

Bet your account on it?

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Re: Zimmerman - charged and pics of gash on head
« Reply #513 on: April 24, 2012, 08:20:58 PM »
Bet your account on it?


Sure...will you bet yours???
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Re: Zimmerman - charged and pics of gash on head
« Reply #514 on: April 24, 2012, 08:22:53 PM »
Yes.

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Re: Zimmerman - charged and pics of gash on head
« Reply #515 on: April 24, 2012, 08:24:30 PM »
zimmerman for. National Nabe Watch Czar! 

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Re: Zimmerman - charged and pics of gash on head
« Reply #516 on: April 25, 2012, 06:17:44 AM »
Trial of George Zimmerman Could Trigger Another Rodney King
The Daily Beast ^ | April 18, 2012 | Mansfield Frazier
Posted on April 18, 2012 2:27:43 AM EDT by 2ndDivisionVet

Trayvon Martin’s shooter has a new lawyer. Mansfield Frazier hopes he’s advising his client to take a plea, since a protracted murder trial is the last thing we need.

As George Zimmerman faces murder charges for shooting Trayvon Martin, it’s worth asking if America is in danger of facing Rodney King, Part II?

That’s what I see down the tracks: If this case goes all the way to trial, it’s a train wreck waiting to happen. The time is now for strong hands to take the helm and steady the ship of state—not to mention our national racial, political and legal discourse. The paramount concern has to be to avert a large-scale racial calamity.

As Touré recently wrote, if sane adults are not careful, deliberate and measured in the handling of the Trayvon Martin-George Zimmerman affair, a dark time could descend upon America.

Look what’s already festering on the streets of Sanford, Florida. On the one hand we’ve got the three stooges of the New Black Panther Party running around Sanford, spouting off crazy ideas and becoming a total embarrassment to more thoughtful and reasoning blacks who simply want justice. On the other we’ve got the equally clownish neo-Nazis, goose-stepping around on their self-appointed mission to protect the white race. In this environment it wouldn’t take much to ignite the racial power keg we’re sitting on. One false or ill-conceived move in this case could allow the loony inmates—not Zimmerman’s current neighbors, but those who are imprisoned by their long-simmering racial hatreds—to fan the incendiary flames of bigotry into full-blown conflagrations of violence across the land.

As someone who watched the King riots unfold from a Los Angeles motel window (and sometimes from the balcony, when we weren’t too afraid to venture out), I’m here to tell you it was a nightmarish time. Thick, acrid black smoke from hundreds of fires hung over the L.A. basin for days as young, armed blacks and Hispanics roared around in open convertibles and jeeps, wearing bandannas and brandishing all sorts of weaponry. We could hear gunfire both in the distance and nearby. Stores that hadn’t been set on fire the first day were looted by the second, and by the third day TV stations were warning of an impending food shortage. A body lay in the gutter on Crenshaw Boulevard for the better part of two days before National Guard troops removed it.

We don’t want to go back there. Fortunately Zimmerman’s new attorney, Mark O’Mara, appears to comprehend the broader implications and potential danger of the situation, and seems well qualified to negotiate a fair outcome for his client, and indeed for the rest of us. He has the calm demeanor of a law professor, and speaks in measured, but not calculating, terms. His first comments seemed designed not to convince anyone of his client’s innocence, but rather to take the heated rhetoric down a few notches. He cautioned that everyone should allow the justice system to work.

So what would a fair outcome look like? To my mind, the government offers Zimmerman a plea deal that has him back on the street within this decade, and he accepts it quietly. That seems like a conclusion most reasonable Americans could live with. Of course, no matter how long or short any sentence may be, there will be those who disagree, some vehemently.

If O’Mara were successful in brokering such a resolution, he should be viewed as nothing less than a savior. A protracted murder trial of George Zimmerman is the last thing this country needs right now. America can only dodge so many racial bullets, and a not-guilty verdict in this case could very easily turn the racial cold war into a very hot one.

Of course, for such a plea scenario to work, Zimmerman will need to listen more to O’Mara than to any of the other voices clamoring for a piece of him. He’s in isolation right now, presumably for his own safety, but a side benefit is that it keeps the more rabid right-wingers from getting inside his head and convincing him to take the case to trial, based on the belief that no matter what the evidence shows, in Florida at least one juror will never vote to convict. Unfortunately, this reasoning is not crazy. The South, after all, is still the South.

But after a few weeks of isolation and the counsel of O’Mara, Zimmerman may decide going to trial isn’t in his best interest. If O’Mara is as savvy as he seems, he will probably inform his client of the stark legal facts: The state overcharged him with murder 2 for two reasons: it’s a bargaining chip to force him to accept a lesser charge, and a means to keep him locked up pretrial. The way the legal system is designed, it’s difficult for someone being held in custody to win acquittal. Even if he went to trial and managed to get a hung jury, the state would surely retry him (multiple times, if necessary), until they get a conviction or he’s spent more time in the county lockup than he would have spent in prison if he’d just pleaded guilty in the first place. And even if he were acquitted, let’s not forget the specter of a federal indictment being handed down.

In all of this, the upcoming bail hearing is key: If the judge doesn’t grant bail, Zimmerman had better start listening real intently to his lawyer.

The wild card is his father, Robert, who has so far sounded like a knee-jerk far-right ideologue. In an interview he said, "I never foresaw so much hate coming from the president, the Congressional Black Caucus, the NAACP," and this was before Obama said anything about the case! It will be virtually impossible to keep Robert Zimmerman away from his son, which means he’ll have ample opportunity to whisper Stand Your Ground rhetoric into his ear, possibly ginning up Zimmerman’s courage and convincing him to go to trial in spite of the danger of being convicted.

We all need to pray that Mark O’Mara is successful in bringing about a fair outcome for his client, for justice, and, more important, for America.



where?