Author Topic: Tren and "starve" is retardation unless you're a rookie  (Read 9310 times)

Davidtheman100

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Tren and "starve" is retardation unless you're a rookie
« on: September 11, 2015, 09:06:56 AM »
If you have built a solid base of muscle (I do not need to give numbers, you know if you have a solid base) by using high mg of tren and starving to lose bodyfat will bring you down to low bf% yes because of the fat burning capability...BUT if you ate a good amount of calories and were just in a slight deficit, you would spare much more muscle while losing the same amount of bodyfat...It would just take slightly longer..That's what tren is to begin with...You can burn fat while gaining lean muscle..So why the hell would anyone try their hardest to lose lean muscle on it just to use it as a fat burner? Will take MUCH LONGER to gain that lean muscle back that you've lost while eating 800-1000 calories a day than it took to lose that fat...I can promise you that...And i'm not talking intramuscular water either that you think is muscle and will go away upon stopping the compound and trying to dry out...

This does not apply to people with not much lean muscle because you will not lose any in a deficit on tren if you barely have any to begin with...disregard if you're not a bodybuilder essentially... 8)

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Re: Tren and "starve" is retardation unless you're a rookie
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2015, 10:24:08 AM »
Starving to get lean is assanine.

Davidtheman100

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Re: Tren and "starve" is retardation unless you're a rookie
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2015, 12:08:40 PM »
Starving to get lean is assanine.

It is just a generally stupid thing to do and the opposite of what a bodybuilder does...Even during prep going below 2k cals for someone 200lbs is not even needed so i don't get why 180 lb males are eating 1 piece of celery and doing 3cc of tren/ed that's not a bodybuilder...

dj181

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Re: Tren and "starve" is retardation unless you're a rookie
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2015, 12:25:27 PM »
It is just a generally stupid thing to do and the opposite of what a bodybuilder does...Even during prep going below 2k cals for someone 200lbs is not even needed so i don't get why 180 lb males are eating 1 piece of celery and doing 3cc of tren/ed that's not a bodybuilder...

so do you think this protocol is good for recomp? bodyweight in pounds times 12

i got to 4% on about 1700 cals a day and i only weighed a buck 52 lol and all i was taking at the time was 20 mg of superdrol

now i'm about a buck 72 @ 7% but if i decide to get down to 4% again i'll have to get more serious with counting cals, so once i do i'll maybe start with bodyweight times 15

i'm not really a bodybuilder as i don't really train legs and back, or you could call me a "front bodybuilder above the waist" as i do have good delts, pecs and arms  8)

Davidtheman100

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Re: Tren and "starve" is retardation unless you're a rookie
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2015, 12:47:10 PM »
so do you think this protocol is good for recomp? bodyweight in pounds times 12

i got to 4% on about 1700 cals a day and i only weighed a buck 52 lol and all i was taking at the time was 20 mg of superdrol

now i'm about a buck 72 @ 7% but if i decide to get down to 4% again i'll have to get more serious with counting cals, so once i do i'll maybe start with bodyweight times 15

i'm not really a bodybuilder as i don't really train legs and back, or you could call me a "front bodybuilder above the waist" as i do have good delts, pecs and arms  8)


172 7% is not bad if you would just start working those bodyparts and are under 5'8" ...Don't you feel a little weird doing bodybuilder poses and having no thick lats?? Or christmas tree in lower back?? Highly defined upper back?? Back is what creates alot of thickness...Will make the waist look smaller...bigger delts + bigger back = illusion of smaller waist...Whole day dedicated to delts?? Such a small bodypart...So much work for such a small bodypart to be enhanced especially if not on the right drugs might as well not train them at all...trust me do back its fun...Watch some dorian yates blood n guts this is my favorite...Look at some of his and ronnie coleman back pics on google image...Very impressive..Women love back muscles...Too much pecs and no back = hunched over guy when he gets older...Puts stress on the spine..

Unfortunately...Legs i can understand...This is the generation we live in where they do not wanna do legs...Reality is when you have some nice, shredded quads people DO NOTICE...You will notice you look more sexy in jeans...everything gets a "fitted" feel...Ass is tighter...More athletic...Higher vertical..Believe me...Better athlete in general if having nice looking legs is not enough motivation...You do not even really need to squat...Leg press, leg curl, maybe hacks...Just build them up...They'll grow fast...Look at some pics of big ramy..you're missing out..Especially if you're on the right compounds at your bf% or a bit lower...you'll go to take a shit in the morning and see veins all over the legs..But unfortunately you're probably not 6-7% below the waist...

Essentially to get to 4% at your bodyweight all you need to do is eat same amount of cals and keep tren ace in there with preferably winstrol+mid/high test + femara and even add 20mg superdrol again if you want to have some fun in the gym while you're doing it...As you grow keep the cals the same..So now you're losing bodyfat after you've built muscle with no fat gain and you'll never revert back to small size because you're eating enough cals to be bigger...First initially weeks will be muscle building with no fat gain or loss...Next step with SAME CALS SAME DRUGS is now just fat loss and maintaining of muscle..Your body grow and now need more cals to grow further..You do not want to grow further :) so now it is fat loss mode as this cal amount has turned into a deficit for your new size :) = fat loss...Very simple

dj181

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Re: Tren and "starve" is retardation unless you're a rookie
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2015, 01:07:02 PM »

172 7% is not bad if you would just start working those bodyparts and are under 5'8" ...Don't you feel a little weird doing bodybuilder poses and having no thick lats?? Or christmas tree in lower back?? Highly defined upper back?? Back is what creates alot of thickness...Will make the waist look smaller...bigger delts + bigger back = illusion of smaller waist...Whole day dedicated to delts?? Such a small bodypart...So much work for such a small bodypart to be enhanced especially if not on the right drugs might as well not train them at all...trust me do back its fun...Watch some dorian yates blood n guts this is my favorite...Look at some of his and ronnie coleman back pics on google image...Very impressive..Women love back muscles...Too much pecs and no back = hunched over guy when he gets older...Puts stress on the spine..

Unfortunately...Legs i can understand...This is the generation we live in where they do not wanna do legs...Reality is when you have some nice, shredded quads people DO NOTICE...You will notice you look more sexy in jeans...everything gets a "fitted" feel...Ass is tighter...More athletic...Higher vertical..Believe me...Better athlete in general if having nice looking legs is not enough motivation...You do not even really need to squat...Leg press, leg curl, maybe hacks...Just build them up...They'll grow fast...Look at some pics of big ramy..you're missing out..Especially if you're on the right compounds at your bf% or a bit lower...you'll go to take a shit in the morning and see veins all over the legs..But unfortunately you're probably not 6-7% below the waist...

Essentially to get to 4% at your bodyweight all you need to do is eat same amount of cals and keep tren ace in there with preferably winstrol+mid/high test + femara and even add 20mg superdrol again if you want to have some fun in the gym while you're doing it...As you grow keep the cals the same..So now you're losing bodyfat after you've built muscle with no fat gain and you'll never revert back to small size because you're eating enough cals to be bigger...First initially weeks will be muscle building with no fat gain or loss...Next step with SAME CALS SAME DRUGS is now just fat loss and maintaining of muscle..Your body grow and now need more cals to grow further..You do not want to grow further :) so now it is fat loss mode as this cal amount has turned into a deficit for your new size :) = fat loss...Very simple

there's a competing bodybuilder at my gym and he told me that my delts and pecs are very good and that my arms are decent, but he said that my back and legs suck

i know my legs suck but i think my back is ok and i told him so, and he said that's only because i can't see my back lol

i actually have veins on my quads and calves as i'm just a naturally dry thin skinned guy (thanks mom and dad  :)) and i train leg extensions heavy so i have a little bit of quads, and as far as back goes i either do some "light" machine rows or pulldowns but i do train rear delts hard so that keeps my shoulders back

here's an example of my back work and chest work... BACK: either light machine row or pulldowns CHEST: barbell bench, hammer incline, weighted dips

i usually do 3 exercises per bodypart ie. 3 for chest, 3 for delts, 3 for bis and 3 for tris and for back 1 exercise and legs maybe 2 LOL

on sunday i get more gear and i'll start this

50 mg test prop eod
50 or maybe 100 mg drol ed (i'll start @ 50 and if i tolerate it will i'll jump up to 100)

right now i'd say that my cals are around 3 grand a day


Davidtheman100

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Re: Tren and "starve" is retardation unless you're a rookie
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2015, 01:13:28 PM »
there's a competing bodybuilder at my gym and he told me that my delts and pecs are very good and that my arms are decent, but he said that my back and legs suck

i know my legs suck but i think my back is ok and i told him so, and he said that's only because i can't see my back lol

i actually have veins on my quads and calves as i'm just a naturally dry thin skinned guy (thanks mom and dad  :)) and i train leg extensions heavy so i have a little bit of quads, and as far as back goes i either do some "light" machine rows or pulldowns but i do train rear delts hard so that keeps my shoulders back

here's an example of my back work and chest work... BACK: either light machine row or pulldowns CHEST: barbell bench, hammer incline, weighted dips

i usually do 3 exercises per bodypart ie. 3 for chest, 3 for delts, 3 for bis and 3 for tris and for back 1 exercise and legs maybe 2 LOL

on sunday i get more gear and i'll start this

50 mg test prop eod
50 or maybe 100 mg drol ed (i'll start @ 50 and if i tolerate it will i'll jump up to 100)

right now i'd say that my cals are around 3 grand a day




What is your training split?

goku

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Re: Tren and "starve" is retardation unless you're a rookie
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2015, 01:46:50 PM »
its because they're just morons.
i see their pics on the boards, running 200mg tren ace daily, eating like birds and training like pussies and look as if they don't have enough muscle to hold the volume gear they inject.

at the top end competitively, sometimes starvation (relative to them) is needed to bring in that level of condition. Levrone, Shawn Ray etc were known to have nothing but white fish and vegetables for each meal for the final 2-3 weeks.
circa 2000 cals.
but it was for a short period of time and on a hefty amount of gear/gh to maintain. anything longer and they wouldn't have maintained.

but most people on the forums don't compete and have nowhere near enough muscle to consider starving themselves so they can show it.

bulking and cutting for a non-competitor is a misnomer unless they're in really bad shape to begin with.
slightly above maintenance cals cycled with periods of slightly below maintenance cals,
progressively bigger doses - growing into doses,
hard training,
gh added.
everything increased progressively,
if most people did this they'd do a lot better imo
building bigger and leaner physiques without the pitfalls of bulking and cutting.
they'd actually get to their destination quicker because they'd avoid overeating/gaining fat if bulking and under-eating/losing muscle if cutting.

nigh on every top physique i've seen who doesn't compete or have stopped competing do not bulk or cut.

i haven't gone drastically above or below maintenance cals in many years, grew into heavier doses progressively without burning out on silly doses of tren,
added gh and progressively increased that too
it's by far the best method for having a head turning physique and living a somewhat normal lifestyle in terms of food etc

dj181

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Re: Tren and "starve" is retardation unless you're a rookie
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2015, 01:49:46 PM »

What is your training split?

basically something like this...

day 1: bis/back/legs
day 2: chest/delt/tri
day 3: off

or

day 1: bi/back/legs
day 2: off
day 3: chest/delt/tri
day 4: off

i do better hitting each bodypart every 3-5 days, 7 days is too long for me and i start to lose size

on day 1 i do this: barbell curl, db hammer curl, db concentration curl, rear delt in pec deck machine, light machine row or pulldown, leg ext and butt blaster LOL (ladies like ass so that's why i do the butt blaster  ;D ;D ;D)

on day 2 or 3 i do this: barbell bench, hammer incline, weighted dips, barbell close-grip bench, pressdowns, 1-arm db overhead tri ext, laterals and rotator cuff work (so i actually only do 2 delt exercises ie: laterals and rear delt, i don't think i need any presses coz my delts are my best bodypart plus i get lots of delt work on benches, hammer incline, dips and close-grip benches)

and yeah, my chest/delt/tri day kicks the living shit out of my bi/back/leg day LOL

Davidtheman100

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Re: Tren and "starve" is retardation unless you're a rookie
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2015, 03:28:15 PM »
basically something like this...

day 1: bis/back/legs
day 2: chest/delt/tri
day 3: off

or

day 1: bi/back/legs
day 2: off
day 3: chest/delt/tri
day 4: off

i do better hitting each bodypart every 3-5 days, 7 days is too long for me and i start to lose size

on day 1 i do this: barbell curl, db hammer curl, db concentration curl, rear delt in pec deck machine, light machine row or pulldown, leg ext and butt blaster LOL (ladies like ass so that's why i do the butt blaster  ;D ;D ;D)

on day 2 or 3 i do this: barbell bench, hammer incline, weighted dips, barbell close-grip bench, pressdowns, 1-arm db overhead tri ext, laterals and rotator cuff work (so i actually only do 2 delt exercises ie: laterals and rear delt, i don't think i need any presses coz my delts are my best bodypart plus i get lots of delt work on benches, hammer incline, dips and close-grip benches)

and yeah, my chest/delt/tri day kicks the living shit out of my bi/back/leg day LOL


You do know that you grow outside the gym, right? You aren't allowing yourself enough time to recover...And if you are, you are not hitting the muscle groups hard enough...I would not be able to train more than 2 bp a day...1 hard workout till failure every 5-6 days that makes you feel DOMS for 3-4 days is better than 2 charles glass "pump" workouts in a 7 day period...You are working harder for less results...You do not need to be in the gym for more than an hour unless you're doing cardio (cardio is almost never needed)

You need to push your muscles to the point of failure and beyond and send a message to your body that it needs to grow. You need to feed throughout the day as well...if i had the time...I would have you 200 5% in NO TIME...i really would...

AT LEAST try something like this. to improve yourself from where you are... day 1 chest, triceps, forearms smith machine for 25 minutes just constant sets and changing of the weights back and forth from something you can do heavy 6-8 reps to something you can do 10+ times...5 sets of that then cables for 3 sets...boom done with chest if you do it right...Will already have hit tris a little with chest you can do 3 rope drop set with minimal rest in between and then go to your back machine tell the ppl to fuck off and use bicep curl bar to do tricep extention and feel a even bigger burn after your arms are pumped from rope tri dropsets and done...forearms do what the fuck you wnat they'll either grow or they wont'

 day 2 back/legs (mostly back just pump the legs) focus on thickening lats and hit upper back with an exercise and hit lower back with an exercise preferably get deadlift in there but not needed can do deadlift type workouts and target the same muscles with dumbells...

day 3 bicep, shoulder, traps.... Biceps are a small muscle and don't need an insane amount for them to grow... 6 sets of drop sets in a 20 minute period will kill them with minimal rest in between sets...Spend about 30 minutes on delts....Something like 3 sets of 3 exercise to keep you moving...Shoulder press, into front lateral, into side lateral + face pulls or something along those lines and keep yourself going..will hit some traps all they need is 10-15 minutes individual work if you continue to move..All that's needed for chest is smith machine and cables to create an incredible chest...Training partner for chest will ensure that you develop an incredible chest as you can push past failure with them...


You can hit abs on 1-2 of those days (if you want if lean it doesn't even matter might even be detrimental) but would take 1-2 days off after everything should be felt the next day and the next day so you aren't KILLING YOURSELF but you like to workout often so this will prime you for not too long of recovery...so basically 2-3 of those muscles will be hit 2ce a week and one of them on the 8th day of the week if i'm speaking correctly...Iwould essentially haev you grown like a weed man but there is not much i can do other than set something up..

This will essentially have you better looking than you are now because you will #1 have some leg work where people will be killing it once per week you will be touching them up not really caring about them 2ce a week and it will look like you care...Back will be hit from all angles + right drugs at low bf% = good back...

dj181

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Re: Tren and "starve" is retardation unless you're a rookie
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2015, 04:15:52 PM »

You do know that you grow outside the gym, right? You aren't allowing yourself enough time to recover...And if you are, you are not hitting the muscle groups hard enough...I would not be able to train more than 2 bp a day...1 hard workout till failure every 5-6 days that makes you feel DOMS for 3-4 days is better than 2 charles glass "pump" workouts in a 7 day period...You are working harder for less results...You do not need to be in the gym for more than an hour unless you're doing cardio (cardio is almost never needed)

You need to push your muscles to the point of failure and beyond and send a message to your body that it needs to grow. You need to feed throughout the day as well...if i had the time...I would have you 200 5% in NO TIME...i really would...

AT LEAST try something like this. to improve yourself from where you are... day 1 chest, triceps, forearms smith machine for 25 minutes just constant sets and changing of the weights back and forth from something you can do heavy 6-8 reps to something you can do 10+ times...5 sets of that then cables for 3 sets...boom done with chest if you do it right...Will already have hit tris a little with chest you can do 3 rope drop set with minimal rest in between and then go to your back machine tell the ppl to fuck off and use bicep curl bar to do tricep extention and feel a even bigger burn after your arms are pumped from rope tri dropsets and done...forearms do what the fuck you wnat they'll either grow or they wont'

 day 2 back/legs (mostly back just pump the legs) focus on thickening lats and hit upper back with an exercise and hit lower back with an exercise preferably get deadlift in there but not needed can do deadlift type workouts and target the same muscles with dumbells...

day 3 bicep, shoulder, traps.... Biceps are a small muscle and don't need an insane amount for them to grow... 6 sets of drop sets in a 20 minute period will kill them with minimal rest in between sets...Spend about 30 minutes on delts....Something like 3 sets of 3 exercise to keep you moving...Shoulder press, into front lateral, into side lateral + face pulls or something along those lines and keep yourself going..will hit some traps all they need is 10-15 minutes individual work if you continue to move..All that's needed for chest is smith machine and cables to create an incredible chest...Training partner for chest will ensure that you develop an incredible chest as you can push past failure with them...


You can hit abs on 1-2 of those days (if you want if lean it doesn't even matter might even be detrimental) but would take 1-2 days off after everything should be felt the next day and the next day so you aren't KILLING YOURSELF but you like to workout often so this will prime you for not too long of recovery...so basically 2-3 of those muscles will be hit 2ce a week and one of them on the 8th day of the week if i'm speaking correctly...Iwould essentially haev you grown like a weed man but there is not much i can do other than set something up..

This will essentially have you better looking than you are now because you will #1 have some leg work where people will be killing it once per week you will be touching them up not really caring about them 2ce a week and it will look like you care...Back will be hit from all angles + right drugs at low bf% = good back...

so are you saying do a 3-way split with a 1on/1off protocol?

i sometimes train 4 or 5 days in a row and it fucks me up, and in fact i'm pushing it doing a 3on/1off split but i can handle a 2on/1off split but i just get pissed off/anxious if i'm not in the gym (i feel confident in the gym coz i know that i look good (even though i'm not big, i'm still well sculpted) so i feel good showing off tbh) but yeah i know that "you grow outside the gym" like god ie. gh15 used to say

and pushing heavy and beyond failure? yeah, i know that you gotta work hard to get results but i'm thinking that if you push beyond failure it can be too much and lead more quickly to over-training, but what's funny is that on chest i was training it quite heavy and it thickened up more but then i got scared of getting a pec tear so i lightened up and did more pump work and honestly my chest has lost some size and fullness  >:( :(

and by the way, is it a good idea to start the drol at 50 mg ed and jump to 100 mg if i'm handling it well, or should i just go straight to 100 mg ed? i've never used drol before, so i have no experience with it

anyways thanks for the advice bro  :)

Davidtheman100

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Re: Tren and "starve" is retardation unless you're a rookie
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2015, 05:04:12 PM »
so are you saying do a 3-way split with a 1on/1off protocol?

i sometimes train 4 or 5 days in a row and it fucks me up, and in fact i'm pushing it doing a 3on/1off split but i can handle a 2on/1off split but i just get pissed off/anxious if i'm not in the gym (i feel confident in the gym coz i know that i look good (even though i'm not big, i'm still well sculpted) so i feel good showing off tbh) but yeah i know that "you grow outside the gym" like god ie. gh15 used to say

and pushing heavy and beyond failure? yeah, i know that you gotta work hard to get results but i'm thinking that if you push beyond failure it can be too much and lead more quickly to over-training, but what's funny is that on chest i was training it quite heavy and it thickened up more but then i got scared of getting a pec tear so i lightened up and did more pump work and honestly my chest has lost some size and fullness  >:( :(

and by the way, is it a good idea to start the drol at 50 mg ed and jump to 100 mg if i'm handling it well, or should i just go straight to 100 mg ed? i've never used drol before, so i have no experience with it

anyways thanks for the advice bro  :)

I'm saying more 3 on 2 off but if you feel good it can be 3/1 with that split...It's good to have a workout partner because they'll help you push past failure and work heavier...This is why it's better to train less often and heavier...Of corse it will fvck you up but in a good way where you can rest and feed for 4 days without doing a single exercise with the muscle as it grows....

Tapering up the dosage has nothing to do with handling it well...You should taper up anyway because you need to see how your body reacts physique-wise...So even if you were planning on running 200mg you should still ramp up...some guys can get veiny and volumized and look great on drol but others can look puffy and store alot of water in the abdominal area...this will be mostly middle eastern people it effects negatively

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Re: Tren and "starve" is retardation unless you're a rookie
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2015, 08:45:53 AM »
its because they're just morons.
i see their pics on the boards, running 200mg tren ace daily, eating like birds and training like pussies and look as if they don't have enough muscle to hold the volume gear they inject.

at the top end competitively, sometimes starvation (relative to them) is needed to bring in that level of condition. Levrone, Shawn Ray etc were known to have nothing but white fish and vegetables for each meal for the final 2-3 weeks.
circa 2000 cals.
but it was for a short period of time and on a hefty amount of gear/gh to maintain. anything longer and they wouldn't have maintained.

but most people on the forums don't compete and have nowhere near enough muscle to consider starving themselves so they can show it.

bulking and cutting for a non-competitor is a misnomer unless they're in really bad shape to begin with.
slightly above maintenance cals cycled with periods of slightly below maintenance cals,
progressively bigger doses - growing into doses,
hard training,
gh added.
everything increased progressively,
if most people did this they'd do a lot better imo
building bigger and leaner physiques without the pitfalls of bulking and cutting.
they'd actually get to their destination quicker because they'd avoid overeating/gaining fat if bulking and under-eating/losing muscle if cutting.

nigh on every top physique i've seen who doesn't compete or have stopped competing do not bulk or cut.

i haven't gone drastically above or below maintenance cals in many years, grew into heavier doses progressively without burning out on silly doses of tren,
added gh and progressively increased that too
it's by far the best method for having a head turning physique and living a somewhat normal lifestyle in terms of food etc
Love this post. This is what I started doing, completely changed everything, training, diet, and gear dosages. Getting thicker and leaner.

horseskin

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Re: Tren and "starve" is retardation unless you're a rookie
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2015, 05:01:18 PM »
its because they're just morons.
i see their pics on the boards, running 200mg tren ace daily, eating like birds and training like pussies and look as if they don't have enough muscle to hold the volume gear they inject.

at the top end competitively, sometimes starvation (relative to them) is needed to bring in that level of condition. Levrone, Shawn Ray etc were known to have nothing but white fish and vegetables for each meal for the final 2-3 weeks.
circa 2000 cals.
but it was for a short period of time and on a hefty amount of gear/gh to maintain. anything longer and they wouldn't have maintained.

but most people on the forums don't compete and have nowhere near enough muscle to consider starving themselves so they can show it.

bulking and cutting for a non-competitor is a misnomer unless they're in really bad shape to begin with.
slightly above maintenance cals cycled with periods of slightly below maintenance cals,
progressively bigger doses - growing into doses,
hard training,
gh added.
everything increased progressively,
if most people did this they'd do a lot better imo
building bigger and leaner physiques without the pitfalls of bulking and cutting.
they'd actually get to their destination quicker because they'd avoid overeating/gaining fat if bulking and under-eating/losing muscle if cutting.

nigh on every top physique i've seen who doesn't compete or have stopped competing do not bulk or cut.

i haven't gone drastically above or below maintenance cals in many years, grew into heavier doses progressively without burning out on silly doses of tren,
added gh and progressively increased that too
it's by far the best method for having a head turning physique and living a somewhat normal lifestyle in terms of food etc
How many calories do you eat to maintain your weight?

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Re: Tren and "starve" is retardation unless you're a rookie
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2015, 06:18:38 PM »
Wtf kind of bullshit is that you don't train legs or back. You don't train back get the fuck outta here my god.

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Re: Tren and "starve" is retardation unless you're a rookie
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2015, 05:38:28 AM »
Starving to get lean is assanine.

I tried it it works but rebound was horrible. You can get ripped eating decent clean meals 2,000-2,500 cals if your slamming Tren almost daily and using HGH and T4. seen it many times. I'll do it this year myself now that I'm healthy.

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Re: Tren and "starve" is retardation unless you're a rookie
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2015, 08:24:08 AM »

172 7% is not bad if you would just start working those bodyparts and are under 5'8" ...Don't you feel a little weird doing bodybuilder poses and having no thick lats?? Or christmas tree in lower back?? Highly defined upper back?? Back is what creates alot of thickness...Will make the waist look smaller...bigger delts + bigger back = illusion of smaller waist...Whole day dedicated to delts?? Such a small bodypart...So much work for such a small bodypart to be enhanced especially if not on the right drugs might as well not train them at all...trust me do back its fun...Watch some dorian yates blood n guts this is my favorite...Look at some of his and ronnie coleman back pics on google image...Very impressive..Women love back muscles...Too much pecs and no back = hunched over guy when he gets older...Puts stress on the spine..

Unfortunately...Legs i can understand...This is the generation we live in where they do not wanna do legs...Reality is when you have some nice, shredded quads people DO NOTICE...You will notice you look more sexy in jeans...everything gets a "fitted" feel...Ass is tighter...More athletic...Higher vertical..Believe me...Better athlete in general if having nice looking legs is not enough motivation...You do not even really need to squat...Leg press, leg curl, maybe hacks...Just build them up...They'll grow fast...Look at some pics of big ramy..you're missing out..Especially if you're on the right compounds at your bf% or a bit lower...you'll go to take a shit in the morning and see veins all over the legs..But unfortunately you're probably not 6-7% below the waist...

Essentially to get to 4% at your bodyweight all you need to do is eat same amount of cals and keep tren ace in there with preferably winstrol+mid/high test + femara and even add 20mg superdrol again if you want to have some fun in the gym while you're doing it...As you grow keep the cals the same..So now you're losing bodyfat after you've built muscle with no fat gain and you'll never revert back to small size because you're eating enough cals to be bigger...First initially weeks will be muscle building with no fat gain or loss...Next step with SAME CALS SAME DRUGS is now just fat loss and maintaining of muscle..Your body grow and now need more cals to grow further..You do not want to grow further :) so now it is fat loss mode as this cal amount has turned into a deficit for your new size :) = fat loss...Very simple
  Great post!!!!!!

Disco187

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Re: Tren and "starve" is retardation unless you're a rookie
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2015, 08:26:00 AM »
I have done tren and starvation but my starvation is two prot drinks a day with peanut butter in them and a steamed chicken white rice dinner. would do that for about a month if i am spilled over and bloated,  I have a complex with moonface,  just something that bothers me incredibly

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Re: Tren and "starve" is retardation unless you're a rookie
« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2015, 08:30:52 AM »
what exactly do you mean by starvation?

also are we talking contest prep?

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Re: Tren and "starve" is retardation unless you're a rookie
« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2015, 06:02:26 PM »
I dieted pretty much 2200k a day but I dropped 3weeks out. ..2 weeks I am close to negative calories to get the fat off my lower back..sometimes you have to suffer
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mame09

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Re: Tren and "starve" is retardation unless you're a rookie
« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2015, 06:36:39 PM »
if your not a competitive bodybuilder no need for gh and t3 ect

steroids and hard dieting would suffice thats what the bodybuilders from the 70s done and it worked fine for them

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Re: Tren and "starve" is retardation unless you're a rookie
« Reply #21 on: October 10, 2015, 07:30:45 PM »
if your not a competitive bodybuilder no need for gh and t3 ect

steroids and hard dieting would suffice thats what the bodybuilders from the 70s done and it worked fine for them

why do you say theres no need? or that it doesn't make that much of a difference in the "gym rat" physique?  me personally, I look a lot better when im on gh vs when im not. tighter, rounder, 3d, and I also get away with less aas it seems.

Davidtheman100

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Re: Tren and "starve" is retardation unless you're a rookie
« Reply #22 on: October 10, 2015, 09:20:16 PM »
if your not a competitive bodybuilder no need for gh and t3 ect

steroids and hard dieting would suffice thats what the bodybuilders from the 70s done and it worked fine for them
Franco didn't look like a freak though...if you want the freak look you need insulin gh etc

mame09

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Re: Tren and "starve" is retardation unless you're a rookie
« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2015, 03:32:43 AM »
why do you say theres no need? or that it doesn't make that much of a difference in the "gym rat" physique?  me personally, I look a lot better when im on gh vs when im not. tighter, rounder, 3d, and I also get away with less aas it seems.

i mean from a gym rats perspective like me. if your a pro or have aspirations take everything u can to get big and ripped lol