Prep starts today - I've reached my off-season limit

[harmankardon1]

Really, how many people have you known who have died through competitive bodybuilding in their 50s and beyond?

None... But that proves nothing.

I didnt state anyone would die. I do state however that to push the bbing lifestyle (really at any age) but certainly at older ages is less healthy than maintaining a normal bodyweight, not taking PEDs and eating normally.

[joswift]

None... But that proves nothing.

I didnt state anyone would die. I do state however that to push the bbing lifestyle (really at any age) but certainly at older ages is less healthy than maintaining a normal bodyweight, not taking PEDs and eating normally.

but people die in their 40s and 50s all the time, they dont push a bodybuilding lifestyle, they just veat and drink in moderation and keel over any way..

Sure, anything you do could increase the chances of you dropping dead... why worry about it if you are doing what you want to do..

[illuminati]

Yep^... If someone wants to juice up and compete in their 50's or whatever that's their choice.

We all know it is very unhealthy pushing hard at that age, but if that's what it takes for someone to have some purpose then that's what it takes.

What makes you say very unhealthy? I’m sure you & I can name a fair few things that are far worse
Yet millions & millions continually do them.
It probably gives them purpose also.

[illuminati]

This woman looks happy.



Another happy heavy lady.  Has 20-inch arms too.

Yes they do look Happy in them pics
Does it affect their quality of life - I don’t know - it likely affects their mobility & some things they likely can’t do. As There are Hundreds of Millions like them all over the World - I take it it’s clearly not that
Bad. - Though it’s Not for me - Just as being either Skinny or Muscular isn’t for Obese People.
Choice.

[illuminati]

but people die in their 40s and 50s all the time, they dont push a bodybuilding lifestyle, they just veat and drink in moderation and keel over any way..

Sure, anything you do could increase the chances of you dropping dead... why worry about it if you are doing what you want to do..

Exactly- Being Alive is the Biggest Risk Factor To Dieing.
Yes Many Many Things that us Humans do increase those risks - And as you stated there’s countless
People in their childhood ( My Daughter ) Teens / 20s / 30s / 40s that are very light & Low Body Fat
Yet Die. Enjoy Every day as if it’s your Last.

[Straw Man]

Had a TIA
about a year and half ago. Nothing since

Lee LaBrada is about 2” shorter than me

As far as the right to choose what I do with my body? There isn’t another life involved.

Isn't a TIA an early warning of the potential for a future stroke?

Labrada is reported to be 5'6"

How tall are you?

Regarding ones right to choose what to do with their own body, there always other lives involved in almost every decision we make in life.  Why would that matter? No one has the right to tell someone what to do with their body.  

[Coach is Back!]

For 20+ years prior to going into personal training full time I worked in the commercial roofing industry starting as an apprentice through foreman as a Journeyman, superintendent to consulting, designing and inspection. 95% of the work was built up roofing (hot tar) and very carcinogenic and in some jobs “pitch” was used which was twice as carcinogenic as regular bitumen (tar). It was so toxic when applying all parts of your body had to be covered including the face no matter what the weather was.

Point being, I worry (or at least think about) the latter effects of the work I did when I was younger bring exposed to tar, pitch, etc at that time than I do about training for bodybuilding. We have no cancers that run in either side of my family but the thought is always there. Make sense?

[IroNat]

For 20+ years prior to going into personal training full time I worked in the commercial roofing industry starting as an apprentice through foreman as a Journeyman, superintendent to consulting, designing and inspection. 95% of the work was built up roofing (hot tar) and very carcinogenic and in some jobs “pitch” was used which was twice as carcinogenic as regular bitumen (tar). It was so toxic when applying all parts of your body had to be covered including the face no matter what the weather was.

Point being, I worry (or at least think about) the latter effects of the work I did when I was younger bring exposed to tar, pitch, etc at that time than I do about training for bodybuilding. We have no cancers that run in either side of my family but the thought is always there. Make sense?

Yes.

[pellius]

Yes, tell that to Dorian, Lee lebrada, Lee haney, etc...

They are all successful, in shape, and not chasing a dream to keep getting bigger as they age

Exactly. To each his own. Different dreams. BTW, Lee Labrada is still juicing hard and looks like he is four weeks out from stage ready condition. Gaspari too, but not as consistent as Lee.

[JustPlaneJane]

Yep^... If someone wants to juice up and compete in their 50's or whatever that's their choice.

We all know it is very unhealthy pushing hard at that age, but if that's what it takes for someone to have some purpose then that's what it takes.

The U.S. currently has a 78 year old recent heart attack victim and a 77 year old man suffering from dementia crisscrossing the country so they can lose an election to President Trump and no one seems to care.

I suppose a death on the election debate stage may garner a couple dozen sympathy votes.

[harmankardon1]

but people die in their 40s and 50s all the time, they dont push a bodybuilding lifestyle, they just veat and drink in moderation and keel over any way..

Sure, anything you do could increase the chances of you dropping dead... why worry about it if you are doing what you want to do..

^ this was exactly my point, if competing and pushing it later in life gives you drive and purpose you should do it, and not worry about what anyone else says...

[harmankardon1]

What makes you say very unhealthy? I’m sure you & I can name a fair few things that are far worse
Yet millions & millions continually do them.
It probably gives them purpose also.

I say very but it depends...

If you are living the lifestyle (including the drugs) and are taking precautions you minimise your risk.

Regular bloods mainly for hematocrit, keeping it within normal ranges,(give blood to control) taking baby asprin. Elevated hematocrit is a big risk factor for old body builders for heart attack and stroke. Monitoring blood pressure on a regular basis, taking medication to lower it. Taking a statin or supplements to make sure ldl is not really high, getting Hdl up is always gonna be tough, niacin can be effective. If guys don't do any of this they can be walking around like a time bomb with hematocrit and blood pressure through the roof none the wiser, young guys can get away with this but 50+ very risky stuff....

And yeah heaps of people are fat slobs and can be just as bad, it's all relative... But if there's two of you and one is 250 juiced to the max and the other is 180 living a "normal" lifestyle chances are much greater the heavy one drops of the perch first.

But as I said I don't have anything against going after it at any age, what anyone does with their body is their choice.

[Coach is Back!]

I say very but it depends...

If you are living the lifestyle (including the drugs) and are taking precautions you minimise your risk.

Regular bloods mainly for hematocrit, keeping it within normal ranges,(give blood to control) taking baby asprin. Elevated hematocrit is a big risk factor for old body builders for heart attack and stroke. Monitoring blood pressure on a regular basis, taking medication to lower it. Taking a statin or supplements to make sure ldl is not really high, getting Hdl up is always gonna be tough, niacin can be effective. If guys don't do any of this they can be walking around like a time bomb with hematocrit and blood pressure through the roof none the wiser, young guys can get away with this but 50+ very risky stuff....

And yeah heaps of people are fat slobs and can be just as bad, it's all relative... But if there's two of you and one is 250 juiced to the max and the other is 180 living a "normal" lifestyle chances are much greater the heavy one drops of the perch first.

But as I said I don't have anything against going after it at any age, what anyone does with their body is their choice.

Agree with all of this except the statins. Avoid them if you can they cause all kinds of other problems the worse being rhabo.

Doc took me off and I switched to adding psyllium husk to my diet and haven’t had a problem.

[illuminati]

I say very but it depends...

If you are living the lifestyle (including the drugs) and are taking precautions you minimise your risk.

Regular bloods mainly for hematocrit, keeping it within normal ranges,(give blood to control) taking baby asprin. Elevated hematocrit is a big risk factor for old body builders for heart attack and stroke. Monitoring blood pressure on a regular basis, taking medication to lower it. Taking a statin or supplements to make sure ldl is not really high, getting Hdl up is always gonna be tough, niacin can be effective. If guys don't do any of this they can be walking around like a time bomb with hematocrit and blood pressure through the roof none the wiser, young guys can get away with this but 50+ very risky stuff....

And yeah heaps of people are fat slobs and can be just as bad, it's all relative... But if there's two of you and one is 250 juiced to the max and the other is 180 living a "normal" lifestyle chances are much greater the heavy one drops of the perch first.

But as I said I don't have anything against going after it at any age, what anyone does with their body is their choice.

I say Possibly & Opinions Vary - Though Not Denying There Could Be an Elvated Risk Factor.
All You Posted is Fine & Correct - Only Let Me ask You Genuinely- Are all The Patients in Hospital
From The Very Young to The Very Elderly that are Taking Steroids in Varying amounts From Low
Dosages To Very Large Dosages & Many For Very Many years if Not Most of Their Lives So Well
Monitored & Given all Necessary ancillaries??  
I’d Have to Guess NO they are Not - Unless a Problem Occurs,
Why would that be - Maybe Because Either they
1, They don’t care - Doubtfull. Or
2, The Risk Factors aren’t that Big.
My own Son was on a quite Large dosage of Steroids for around 10yrs & No ancillaries from a very
Young age into his Teens.
Though His Consultant was monitoring him well & was okay with speaking to me about such things.

[karasan]

For 20+ years prior to going into personal training full time I worked in the commercial roofing industry starting as an apprentice through foreman as a Journeyman, superintendent to consulting, designing and inspection. 95% of the work was built up roofing (hot tar) and very carcinogenic and in some jobs “pitch” was used which was twice as carcinogenic as regular bitumen (tar). It was so toxic when applying all parts of your body had to be covered including the face no matter what the weather was.

Point being, I worry (or at least think about) the latter effects of the work I did when I was younger bring exposed to tar, pitch, etc at that time than I do about training for bodybuilding. We have no cancers that run in either side of my family but the thought is always there. Make sense?

Now that's hardcore, I hope you will continue the family tradition on being cancer free, all the best to you Coach!

[Powerlift66]

I think Joe knowns what he's doing. There's a risk in everything we do, even trusting the polluted food industry, etc.
But some good points, just monitor the basics and do the things needed to correct anything suspect. Then after show is done, maybe cruise/TRT/clean out.

Family history and genetics are the number one things to look at. IF not much heart disease, then monitor as needed and be smart.
If lots of heart disease, I would recommend TRT only. Again, I'm sure he appreciated the concerns, many valid, but we have to live our lives

[IroNat]

Agree with all of this except the statins. Avoid them if you can they cause all kinds of other problems the worse being rhabo.

Doc took me off and I switched to adding psyllium husk to my diet and haven’t had a problem.

[Powerlift66]

Agree with all of this except the statins. Avoid them if you can they cause all kinds of other problems the worse being rhabo.

Doc took me off and I switched to adding psyllium husk to my diet and haven’t had a problem.

Statins are OK for those who might really need them, and those numbers are fairly low, compared to how they are pushed on the public.
("Oh, you are at 210 total, time to get on statins") Uhmm, no, wrong.

If a family history of severe heart disease and very high LDL an Trig's (like myself), then yes, they are good.
(Cuts down on what could build up and turn to plaque, doesn't extend life to the average user).

Doesn't remove plaque that is already there. Really a drug that has benefits for a small group of people (again, compared to who are on them) and should not be taken unless severe history and very high levels.

(Get a calcium score done, get Lipopriten-A checked, C-Reactive protein, etc). Having a borderline high total and being put on a statin is reckless, and most Dr's and the industry are.

[harmankardon1]

Statins are OK for those who might really need them, and those numbers are fairly low, compared to how they are pushed on the public.
("Oh, you are at 210 total, time to get on statins") Uhmm, no, wrong.

If a family history of severe heart disease and very high LDL an Trig's (like myself), then yes, they are good.
(Cuts down on what could build up and turn to plaque, doesn't extend life to the average user).

Doesn't remove plaque that is already there. Really a drug that has benefits for a small group of people (again, compared to who are on them) and should not be taken unless severe history and very high levels.

(Get a calcium score done, get Lipopriten-A checked, C-Reactive protein, etc). Having a borderline high total and being put on a statin is reckless, and most Dr's and the industry are.

Agree 100% very true points

[harmankardon1]

I say Possibly & Opinions Vary - Though Not Denying There Could Be an Elvated Risk Factor.
All You Posted is Fine & Correct - Only Let Me ask You Genuinely- Are all The Patients in Hospital
From The Very Young to The Very Elderly that are Taking Steroids in Varying amounts From Low
Dosages To Very Large Dosages & Many For Very Many years if Not Most of Their Lives So Well
Monitored & Given all Necessary ancillaries??  
I’d Have to Guess NO they are Not - Unless a Problem Occurs,
Why would that be - Maybe Because Either they
1, They don’t care - Doubtfull. Or
2, The Risk Factors aren’t that Big.
My own Son was on a quite Large dosage of Steroids for around 10yrs & No ancillaries from a very
Young age into his Teens.
Though His Consultant was monitoring him well & was okay with speaking to me about such things.

No of course most don't do these things, it doesn't mean anything bad will happen, most of the time most people will be fine. I say those precautions can be done to minimise the risk, especially when older and still juicing.

When your still young you can run whatever and 99% of guys won't have an issue, how many of us were juicing hard in our twenties, I used for years straight, up to 2500 mgs a week, the body takes it better at that age... Like with all disease risk increases with age and doing certain things re lifestyle can enhance risk.

[IroNat]

I say Possibly & Opinions Vary - Though Not Denying There Could Be an Elvated Risk Factor.
All You Posted is Fine & Correct - Only Let Me ask You Genuinely- Are all The Patients in Hospital
From The Very Young to The Very Elderly that are Taking Steroids in Varying amounts From Low
Dosages To Very Large Dosages & Many For Very Many years if Not Most of Their Lives So Well
Monitored & Given all Necessary ancillaries??  
I’d Have to Guess NO they are Not - Unless a Problem Occurs,
Why would that be - Maybe Because Either they
1, They don’t care - Doubtfull. Or
2, The Risk Factors aren’t that Big.
My own Son was on a quite Large dosage of Steroids for around 10yrs & No ancillaries from a very
Young age into his Teens.
Though His Consultant was monitoring him well & was okay with speaking to me about such things.

Interesting.  Your son was on high dosages of anabolic steroids from a very young age into his teens?

From what age?

Was this for bodybuilding purposes or for other health issues?

How tall is your son?

[JAGO]

I say very but it depends...

If you are living the lifestyle (including the drugs) and are taking precautions you minimise your risk.

Regular bloods mainly for hematocrit, keeping it within normal ranges,(give blood to control) taking baby asprin. Elevated hematocrit is a big risk factor for old body builders for heart attack and stroke. Monitoring blood pressure on a regular basis, taking medication to lower it. Taking a statin or supplements to make sure ldl is not really high, getting Hdl up is always gonna be tough, niacin can be effective. If guys don't do any of this they can be walking around like a time bomb with hematocrit and blood pressure through the roof none the wiser, young guys can get away with this but 50+ very risky stuff....

And yeah heaps of people are fat slobs and can be just as bad, it's all relative... But if there's two of you and one is 250 juiced to the max and the other is 180 living a "normal" lifestyle chances are much greater the heavy one drops of the perch first.

But as I said I don't have anything against going after it at any age, what anyone does with their body is their choice.

This is accurate - Dec 23rd I was rushed to the hospital BP shot to 250 or 170 ( something.) I take 200 mgs of a blended test and NOTHING else ( vitamins not included.)  I train 4 days a week and eat a plant based diet and run every day.  My red blood cell count was so high, my heart was having a hard time pumping it - blood thinners  and 6 days in emergency. Had I been taking BP medication ( as I should have ) I’d have been fine - but I paid it no mind. Biggest mistake of my life.

J

[illuminati]

No of course most don't do these things, it doesn't mean anything bad will happen, most of the time most people will be fine. I say those precautions can be done to minimise the risk, especially when older and still juicing.

When your still young you can run whatever and 99% of guys won't have an issue, how many of us were juicing hard in our twenties, I used for years straight, up to 2500 mgs a week, the body takes it better at that age... Like with all disease risk increases with age and doing certain things re lifestyle can enhance risk.

Thank You. 👍🏻
Glad You Accept My Points
So No it isn’t that HIGH RISK.

That isn’t to say some won’t suffer as per Jago posted above.
Hope you doing good now.

[illuminati]

Interesting.  Your son was on high dosages of anabolic steroids from a very young age into his teens?

From what age?

Was this for bodybuilding purposes or for other health issues?

How tall is your son?

Are You Being Facetious ? Or You just Daft ?
I Thought Better of You.

Why would my son from a young age be under the care of a specialist medical consultant
If He was Bodybuilding 🙄🙄 & Given Steroids. Do you really think that from age of 3 he’d
Chose to take steroids & bodybuild & the Hospital & Consultant would be Party to That.
Jeez FFS some people on here. 🙄🙄🙄

[Primemuscle]

This is accurate - Dec 23rd I was rushed to the hospital BP shot to 250 or 170 ( something.) I take 200 mgs of a blended test and NOTHING else ( vitamins not included.)  I train 4 days a week and eat a plant based diet and run every day.  My red blood cell count was so high, my heart was having a hard time pumping it - blood thinners  and 6 days in emergency. Had I been taking BP medication ( as I should have ) I’d have been fine - but I paid it no mind. Biggest mistake of my life.

J

I hope you are having your hematocrit checked on a regular basis now.