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Ok guys. I've been involved in the martial arts for a long time now...
whether it be fighting in the streets or fighting in cages.
I'm a black belt in karate. I've dabbled in boxing, wrestling, and recently BJJ.
From time to time, people interested in the martial arts will PM me with their questions,
and now I feel is the time to share some of my knowledge. I will respond to these PMs publicly,
week to week. I feel this information is especially valuable to new fans of our sport.
Re: (No subject)
« Sent to: realkarateblackbelt on: September 05, 2007, 05:57:37 PM »
Quote Reply Remove
RKBB, a lot of my bros are arguing when i tell them karate is the real shit man.
it really grinds my gears, no what i mean? My question is what is the best fighting so i can
check these fools. Thanks -CJ
Well, CJ, the best fighting style is usually described as some kind of standup combined with Judo, Wrestling, or Brasilian Jiu-Jitsu.
K-1 essentially determines the best standup fighter in the world. Looking at K-1, it's clear that three styles dominate:
Full-Contact Karate (K-1 champs Andy Hug, Semmy Schilt), Kickboxing (K-1 champ Ernesto Hoost), and Muay-Thai (Peter Aerts).
In addition, each of these champions also cross-trains in the three primary styles.
Former UFC champion and King of Pancrase Bas Rutten:
Q: How many different styles of fighting have you trained in? Do you have any ranks? Who do you consider your teacher?
Bas: Tae Kwon Do 2nd Degree, Kyokushin Karate 2nd Degree, Thai boxing yellow slip (just kidding), Kyokushin All round fighting 5th Degree (I received this after I defeated Takahashi. I didn’t do any test for this).
I thought a lot myself, striking wise I would say that I learned the most at Mean Ho gym in Breda Holland. Cor Hemmers is the teacher there, he is very good. I started learning the basics in Grappling with Chris Dolman in Holland.
Q: Let us say that I want to become a NHB fighter. What are the martial arts styles you would recommend me to train in?
Bas: Free style wrestling, Thai boxing and submissions (Jiu-Jitsu but without a gi).
So there you have it, the SECOND best fighting style is a combination of one of three standup arts: FC Karate/Muay Thai/Kickboxing...
with one of the three grappling arts: Wrestling/Judo/Jiu Jitsu.
But, you might say, "you said SECOND best! I want THE BEST."
Well, the BEST fighting style is not really a style. The best single style is weight training to develop large muscles.
Some fighters might have sub-par ground skills...some might have sub-par standup skills...
but the thing they all share is a powerful build, relative to their respective weight classes.
Size and strength are so important to fighting that weight classes have been introduced to protect smaller fighters from episodes like this:
&mode=related&search=
Bobb Sapp, a tryout for the NFL, in fact list his fighting style as NFL.
Despite his COMPLETE lack of skill, arm punches, and spinning turtle defense tactics, he managed to beat K-1 Champion, and elite Kickboxer, Ernesto Hoost
TWICE...relying on nothing but his sheer muscle:
So there you have it CJ...
You can give your kid brother all the training in the world, but you'll still be able to sit on him and fart on his head.
Also, people are less inclined to fuck with you if you're muscular. (rightly)
Weight training, is the most important fight training.
This is RKB saying, "keep up the good fight."
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j51/realkarateblackbelt/BobSapp_P01.jpg)
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Ok guys. I've been involved in the martial arts for a long time now...
whether it be fighting in the streets or fighting in cages.
I'm a black belt in karate. I've dabbled in boxing, wrestling, and recently BJJ.
From time to time, people interested in the martial arts will PM me with their questions,
you sound like an all around bitchin guy
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Ok guys. I've been involved in the martial arts for a long time now...
whether it be fighting in the streets or fighting in cages.
I'm a black belt in karate. I've dabbled in boxing, wrestling, and recently BJJ.
From time to time, people interested in the martial arts will PM me with their questions,
and now I feel is the time to share some of my knowledge. I will respond to these PMs publicly,
week to week. I feel this information is especially valuable to new fans of our sport.
Well, CJ, the best fighting style is usually described as some kind of standup combined with Judo, Wrestling, or Brasilian Jiu-Jitsu.
K-1 essentially determines the best standup fighter in the world. Looking at K-1, it's clear that three styles dominate:
Full-Contact Karate (K-1 champs Andy Hug, Semmy Schilt), Kickboxing (K-1 champ Ernesto Hoost), and Muay-Thai (Peter Aerts).
In addition, each of these champions also cross-trains in the three primary styles.
Former UFC champion and King of Pancrase Bas Rutten:
So there you have it, the SECOND best fighting style is a combination of one of three standup arts: FC Karate/Muay Thai/Kickboxing...
with one of the three grappling arts: Wrestling/Judo/Jiu Jitsu.
But, you might say, "you said SECOND best! I want THE BEST."
Well, the BEST fighting style is not really a style. The best single style is weight training to develop large muscles.
Some fighters might have sub-par ground skills...some might have sub-par standup skills...
but the thing they all share is a powerful build, relative to their respective weight classes.
Size and strength are so important to fighting that weight classes have been introduced to protect smaller fighters from episodes like this:
&mode=related&search=
Bobb Sapp, a tryout for the NFL, in fact list his fighting style as NFL.
Despite his COMPLETE lack of skill, arm punches, and spinning turtle defense tactics, he managed to beat K-1 Champion, and elite Kickboxer, Ernesto Hoost
TWICE...relying on nothing but his sheer muscle:
So there you have it CJ...
You can give your kid brother all the training in the world, but you'll still be able to sit on him and fart on his head.
Also, people are less inclined to fuck with you if you're muscular. (rightly)
Weight training, is the most important fight training.
This is RKB saying, "keep up the good fight."
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j51/realkarateblackbelt/BobSapp_P01.jpg)
I am rolling on the floor laughing at how stupid you are.. Bob Sapp if I am not mistaken had his Eye crushed by a Crocop punch.. Hmmm.. Being big is the best defense.. Wow if you have a black belt I am sure it goes with your dockers.. You damn phonny.
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I am rolling on the floor laughing at how stupid you are.. Bob Sapp if I am not mistaken had his Eye crushed by a Crocop punch.. Hmmm.. Being big is the best defense.. Wow if you have a black belt I am sure it goes with your dockers.. You damn phonny.
This is Bezerkerfairy's backup account.
It makes sense that you hate Bob Sapp...being a "smallguy."
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I'm a red belt in TKD (useless), Blubelt in BJJ under Draculino Magalhese of team Gracie/Barra, and ive boxed for around six years, and Ive got to say besides what you stole from bas you are full of crap. Many top tier fighters don't even mess around with weights, I know Manny Steward discourages his fighters in regaurds to weight training, and look at fedor, most of his strength comes from body on body grappling/wrestling, although he does do limited kettle bell training. According to Steward you tend to get arm weary as the fight wears on leaving you open to punishment. Bob Sapp is a huge freak of nature with no skill, look what happened when he fought Nog. He came out strong for a few minutes then gassed and lost. Quit giving out retarded advice you might get somebody hurt.
Weight training, is the most important fight training.
This is RKB saying, "keep up the good fight."
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j51/realkarateblackbelt/BobSapp_P01.jpg)
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This is Bezerkerfairy's backup account.
It makes sense that you hate Bob Sapp...being a "smallguy."
Sorry pal not Nick... You can even see a picture that I posted.. Give me a minute and I'll post a new one.. Speaking of which where is your pic.. You must be Bluetoes Cage fighting back up account huh...
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I'm a red belt in TKD (useless), Blubelt in BJJ under Draculino Magalhese of team Gracie/Barra, and ive boxed for around six years, and Ive got to say besides what you stole from bas you are full of crap. Many top tier fighters don't even mess around with weights, I know Manny Steward discourages his fighters in regaurds to weight training, and look at fedor, most of his strength comes from body on body grappling/wrestling, although he does do limited kettle bell training. According to Steward you tend to get arm weary as the fight wears on leaving you open to punishment. Bob Sapp is a huge freak of nature with no skill, look what happened when he fought Nog. He came out strong for a few minutes then gassed and lost. Quit giving out retarded advice you might get somebody hurt.
That's all wrong.
First of all, I didn't steal anything from Bas Rutten.
I quoted him to support what everyone that's familiar with the game already knows.
Bob Sapp, despite having no clue how to even throw a punch, has twice beaten arguably the greatest standup fighter in the world,
relying on NOTHING but strength and size.
Imagine if he was talented.
There are virtually no great MMA fighters that aren't far stronger than the average person at the same weight, Fedor included.
It's the reason we have weight classes. Combine strength AND skill and you have a potential champion.
Encouraging strength training is not going to get anyone hurt, but taking BJJ likely will.
In fact, I've met a few that have injured themselves badly in BJJ tournaments.
You are way off base, and nothing I said is wrong.
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A lot of animosity on this board. No wonder I avoided it for so long. People have favorite fighters, people have opinions, we should all respect them. I happen to think Rashad Evans will be unstoppable with more training, guess what? I don't care that people on here hate him. I think I am done with this board, if I have an opinion I am a TUF fanboy or a guy ::)(I don't even know what those terms mean). You kids have fun.
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I look alot like BF huh you dumb bastard.. :-X :-X :-X
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Combine strength AND skill and you have a potential champion.
Skill comes first hands down, I remember about five years ago 170lb Gil Castillo fought an NFL linebaker from the Eagles I believe as part of a challenge, the dude was like 250lbs and pretty shredded, Gil took him down and made him tap 4 times in like 3minutes.
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I look alot like BF huh you dumb bastard.. :-X :-X :-X
Looking like a pussy wrecking machine! ;D
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Skill comes first hands down, I remember about five years ago 170lb Gil Castillo fought an NFL linebaker from the Eagles I believe as part of a challenge, the dude was like 250lbs and pretty shredded, Gil took him down and made him tap 4 times in like 3minutes.
Sapp pummeled Hoost twice! And Hoost is supposed to be the greatest kickboxer.
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Yes sir.. These poor bastards would be in trouble... Mr Mcdojo himself.. Taken to the ground and put in a rear naked or better yet a good ol' face crank... But BJJ is for pussies...
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Sapp pummeled Hoost twice! And Hoost is supposed to be the greatest kickboxer.
Hoost's game plan was absolutely retarded in the Sapp fight. He had him in the second anyway. Too early on the ref stoppage. In the end, Hoost is arguably the greatest k-1 fighter of all time and Sapp is just another freakshow gatekeeper clown. ;)
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Hoost's game plan was absolutely retarded in the Sapp fight. He had him in the second anyway. Too early on the ref stoppage. In the end, Hoost is arguably the greatest k-1 fighter of all time and Sapp is just another freakshow gatekeeper clown. ;)
Didn't hoost just sit in the corner in one of those fights.. His game plan was horribel if I remember...
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Sapp pummeled Hoost twice! And Hoost is supposed to be the greatest kickboxer.
He was supposedly the greatest kickboxer like five years before he fought Sapp, by the time he fought Sapp he was already on his decline, Cro-Cop gangster puched Sapp and broke his orbital bone reducing him to tears, Hoost dropped Sapp with a body shot.
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Cro-Cop gangster puched Sapp and broke his orbital bone reducing him to tears, Hoost dropped Sapp with a body shot.
Strength + Skill.
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Strength + Skill.
You said strength is the most important fight training, and it's not.
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Chute, you should rein these retards in! Are you going to let Bluto overrun this board with his cronies and their bullshit?
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Chute, you should rein these retards in! Are you going to let Bluto overrun this board with his cronies and their bullshit?
Don't worry BF I can gurantee that won't happen.. I almost see Blutoes days as Mod on this board dwindling...
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Ok guys. I've been involved in the martial arts for a long time now...
whether it be fighting in the streets or fighting in cages.
I'm a black belt in karate. I've dabbled in boxing, wrestling, and recently BJJ.
From time to time, people interested in the martial arts will PM me with their questions,
and now I feel is the time to share some of my knowledge. I will respond to these PMs publicly,
week to week. I feel this information is especially valuable to new fans of our sport.
Well, CJ, the best fighting style is usually described as some kind of standup combined with Judo, Wrestling, or Brasilian Jiu-Jitsu.
K-1 essentially determines the best standup fighter in the world. Looking at K-1, it's clear that three styles dominate:
Full-Contact Karate (K-1 champs Andy Hug, Semmy Schilt), Kickboxing (K-1 champ Ernesto Hoost), and Muay-Thai (Peter Aerts).
In addition, each of these champions also cross-trains in the three primary styles.
Former UFC champion and King of Pancrase Bas Rutten:
So there you have it, the SECOND best fighting style is a combination of one of three standup arts: FC Karate/Muay Thai/Kickboxing...
with one of the three grappling arts: Wrestling/Judo/Jiu Jitsu.
But, you might say, "you said SECOND best! I want THE BEST."
Well, the BEST fighting style is not really a style. The best single style is weight training to develop large muscles.
Some fighters might have sub-par ground skills...some might have sub-par standup skills...
but the thing they all share is a powerful build, relative to their respective weight classes.
Size and strength are so important to fighting that weight classes have been introduced to protect smaller fighters from episodes like this:
&mode=related&search=
Bobb Sapp, a tryout for the NFL, in fact list his fighting style as NFL.
Despite his COMPLETE lack of skill, arm punches, and spinning turtle defense tactics, he managed to beat K-1 Champion, and elite Kickboxer, Ernesto Hoost
TWICE...relying on nothing but his sheer muscle:
So there you have it CJ...
You can give your kid brother all the training in the world, but you'll still be able to sit on him and fart on his head.
Also, people are less inclined to fuck with you if you're muscular. (rightly)
Weight training, is the most important fight training.
This is RKB saying, "keep up the good fight."
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j51/realkarateblackbelt/BobSapp_P01.jpg)
Hoooo boy.
Here we go again. I am at loss for words.
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Strength will always be more important than technique, because technique is useless without the muscle to apply it.
What good is it teaching a man martial arts if he's built like a woman?
Utterly useless.
At a certain point, no amount of technique will overcome strength.
The reverse is not true.
Again:
*You can beat up your kid brother no matter how much fight training he has.
*Fight organisations have many weight classes to protect the fighters.
*Most of the current boxing champs are giants that rely on brute force and limited skill.
*The current K-1 champ is a giant
*Bob Sapp beat the K-1 Champion TWICE relying only on brute force.
*All serious MMA fighters do strength training
*Many fighters likely take steroids
*Many suspect Cro Cops failure in the UFC is due to "lack of substances" (I'm paraphrasing Kongo)
Maybe you guys still think Bruce Lee was the greatest fighter in the world?
But I'm talking about reality.
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j51/realkarateblackbelt/valuev1_large.jpg)
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I'm a red belt in TKD (useless), Blubelt in BJJ under Draculino Magalhese of team Gracie/Barra, and ive boxed for around six years, and Ive got to say besides what you stole from bas you are full of crap. Many top tier fighters don't even mess around with weights, I know Manny Steward discourages his fighters in regaurds to weight training, and look at fedor, most of his strength comes from body on body grappling/wrestling, although he does do limited kettle bell training. According to Steward you tend to get arm weary as the fight wears on leaving you open to punishment. Bob Sapp is a huge freak of nature with no skill, look what happened when he fought Nog. He came out strong for a few minutes then gassed and lost. Quit giving out retarded advice you might get somebody hurt.
You're right. As someone who trained with Manny as a very very young man Manny discourages weight training unless it's something you do as a hobby outside of your boxing training. I know he discourages from lifting when you get very close to a fight.
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You're right. As someone who trained with Manny as a very very young man Manny discourages weight training unless it's something you do as a hobby outside of your boxing training. I know he discourages from lifting when you get very close to a fight.
Its a good job Tyson [in his prime], Lennox, Ali and Hatton ignored him then ::)
Strength will always be more important than technique, because technique is useless without the muscle to apply it.
What good is it teaching a man martial arts if he's built like a woman?
Utterly useless.
At a certain point, no amount of technique will overcome strength.
The reverse is not true.
Again:
*You can beat up your kid brother no matter how much fight training he has.
*Fight organisations have many weight classes to protect the fighters.
*Most of the current boxing champs are giants that rely on brute force and limited skill.
*The current K-1 champ is a giant
*Bob Sapp beat the K-1 Champion TWICE relying only on brute force.
*All serious MMA fighters do strength training
*Many fighters likely take steroids
*Many suspect Cro Cops failure in the UFC is due to "lack of substances" (I'm paraphrasing Kongo)
Maybe you guys still think Bruce Lee was the greatest fighter in the world?
But I'm talking about reality.
Its not often i agree with 'Bezerk Fury', but you are an obvious troll that is on a sugar rush from all those cookies your mom baked you.
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Strength will always be more important than technique, because technique is useless without the muscle to apply it.
What good is it teaching a man martial arts if he's built like a woman?
Utterly useless.
At a certain point, no amount of technique will overcome strength.
The reverse is not true.
Again:
*You can beat up your kid brother no matter how much fight training he has.
*Fight organisations have many weight classes to protect the fighters.
*Most of the current boxing champs are giants that rely on brute force and limited skill.
*The current K-1 champ is a giant
*Bob Sapp beat the K-1 Champion TWICE relying only on brute force.
*All serious MMA fighters do strength training
*Many fighters likely take steroids
*Many suspect Cro Cops failure in the UFC is due to "lack of substances" (I'm paraphrasing Kongo)
Maybe you guys still think Bruce Lee was the greatest fighter in the world?
But I'm talking about reality.
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j51/realkarateblackbelt/valuev1_large.jpg)
Not only do I know women who would stomp a mud hole in quite a few men, But you can bet I know some kids around 12 to 15 that I would put money on whopping a grown 220 lb man.. You must not know about pressure points either let alone the fact that size doesn't matter! Go back and look at some of the early UFC's didn't little Royce win the whole tournament against men that looked like Giants compared to him. I don't know maybe I am just saying this because I am a small guy...... ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
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You're right. As someone who trained with Manny as a very very young man Manny discourages weight training unless it's something you do as a hobby outside of your boxing training. I know he discourages from lifting when you get very close to a fight.
That guy must really know a lot.
These guys look like they just jump rope and do situps!
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j51/realkarateblackbelt/Mike-Tyson-and-Frank-Bruno-Photogra.jpg)
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j51/realkarateblackbelt/1.1268008img1267990.jpg)
Mike Tyson is built like Bob Fitzsimmons!
Its a good job Tyson [in his prime], Lennox, Ali and Hatton ignored him then ::)
Its not often i agree with 'Bezerk Fury', but you are an obvious troll that is on a sugar rush from all those cookies your mom baked you.
I'm not trolling, and I know a hell of a lot more than you do.
Royce Gracie fought few people that made him look like a kid.
Royce Gracie is not a small man:
He's 6'1" and was fighting at 180 in the UFC.
*He armbarred a 5'11'' 190 pound Jason Delucia.
*He tapped a cruiserweight boxer in UFC1
*He beat a 6'2" 225 pound Pat Smith
*He beat a 6'5" 215 pound Gerard Gordeau
*A 6'2" 225 pound Kimo
*A 5'11" 200 pound Keith Hackney
*A 51 year old Ron VanClieff, that didn't dwarf him by any means
200 pound Kempo practicioner Keith Hackney beat a 6'8" 600 pound Yarborough.
5'10" Tae Kwon Do fighter Cal Worsham beat a 6'8" 300 pound Paul Varelans.
215 pound Savate and Karate practicioner Gerard Gordeau beat a 415 pound Tila Tuli.
But these feats never get mentioned, Gracie gets all the glory as a "giant killer."
They should have put Gracie against the 600 pound sumo wrestler.
The UFC 1 was run by the Gracies as a means to sell their art, and it worked.
I strongly believe the Severn/Gracie match was a work.
It's propaganda, and he was pummeled into retirement by Ken Shamrock.
There was SO much corruption in that show. They were introducing people as being representatives of styles that they had no training in. They were claiming certain people had 10 black belts. It's a good thing Dana White took over, barring the Bisping incident.
Where are all the Jiu Jitsu champions dominating now?
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That guy must really know a lot.
These guys look like they just jump rope and do situps!
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j51/realkarateblackbelt/Mike-Tyson-and-Frank-Bruno-Photogra.jpg)
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j51/realkarateblackbelt/1.1268008img1267990.jpg)
Mike Tyson is built like Bob Fitzsimmons!
I'm not trolling, and I know a hell of a lot more than you do.
Royce Gracie fought few people that made him look like a kid.
Royce Gracie is not a small man:
He's 6'1" and was fighting at 180 in the UFC.
*He armbarred a 5'11'' 190 pound Jason Delucia.
*He tapped a cruiserweight boxer in UFC1
*He beat a 6'2" 225 pound Pat Smith
*He beat a 6'5" 215 pound Gerard Gordeau
*A 6'2" 225 pound Kimo
*A 5'11" 200 pound Keith Hackney
*A 51 year old Ron VanClieff, that didn't dwarf him by any means
200 pound Kempo practicioner Keith Hackney beat a 6'8" 600 pound Yarborough.
5'10" Tae Kwon Do fighter Cal Worsham beat a 6'8" 300 pound Paul Varelans.
215 pound Savate and Karate practicioner Gerard Gordeau beat a 415 pound Tila Tuli.
But these feats never get mentioned, Gracie gets all the glory as a "giant killer."
They should have put Gracie against the 600 pound sumo wrestler.
The UFC 1 was run by the Gracies as a means to sell their art, and it worked.
I strongly believe the Severn/Gracie match was a work.
It's propaganda, and he was pummeled into retirement by Ken Shamrock.
There was SO much corruption in that show. They were introducing people as being representatives of styles that they had no training in. They were claiming certain people had 10 black belts. It's a good thing Dana White took over, barring the Bisping incident.
Where are all the Jiu Jitsu champions dominating now?
You just contradicted yourself.. You said size matters and then list a bunch of smaller guys destroying big guys.. Wow go back to the mcdojo. Don't you have a 27th dan test to pass... ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
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how tall are you sincitysmallguy?
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You just contradicted yourself.. You said size matters and then list a bunch of smaller guys destroying big guys.. Wow go back to the mcdojo. Don't you have a 27th dan test to pass... ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Of course size matters. Are you saying it doesn't?
It's not the only factor, it's the most important factor.
You see things as polarised absolutes.
Well it's not that simple sincitysmallfry.
No amount of technique will overcome size at a certain point.
No technique is effective without muscle to apply it.
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That guy must really know a lot.
These guys look like they just jump rope and do situps!
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j51/realkarateblackbelt/Mike-Tyson-and-Frank-Bruno-Photogra.jpg)
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j51/realkarateblackbelt/1.1268008img1267990.jpg)
Mike Tyson is built like Bob Fitzsimmons!
I'm not trolling, and I know a hell of a lot more than you do.
Royce Gracie fought few people that made him look like a kid.
Royce Gracie is not a small man:
He's 6'1" and was fighting at 180 in the UFC.
*He armbarred a 5'11'' 190 pound Jason Delucia.
*He tapped a cruiserweight boxer in UFC1
*He beat a 6'2" 225 pound Pat Smith
*He beat a 6'5" 215 pound Gerard Gordeau
*A 6'2" 225 pound Kimo
*A 5'11" 200 pound Keith Hackney
*A 51 year old Ron VanClieff, that didn't dwarf him by any means
200 pound Kempo practicioner Keith Hackney beat a 6'8" 600 pound Yarborough.
5'10" Tae Kwon Do fighter Cal Worsham beat a 6'8" 300 pound Paul Varelans.
215 pound Savate and Karate practicioner Gerard Gordeau beat a 415 pound Tila Tuli.
But these feats never get mentioned, Gracie gets all the glory as a "giant killer."
They should have put Gracie against the 600 pound sumo wrestler.
The UFC 1 was run by the Gracies as a means to sell their art, and it worked.
I strongly believe the Severn/Gracie match was a work.
It's propaganda, and he was pummeled into retirement by Ken Shamrock.
Where are all the Jiu Jitsu champions dominating now?
Thats because in UFC one Rorion's back group picked guys who appeared large and STRONG who had little to no ground experience. The only one with ground experience was Shammy. A wrestler with a blue belt would have done just as good. How active was Royce's guard. Anyone of that original batch had a clue to posture up and hips in to stack Royce. Anyone even attempt to pass?
Your second part of this diatribe doesn't make sense also. Jits players doing well in MMA: Let me see. BJ Penn, Napao, Big, Lil Nog, Anderson Silva, Shinya Aoki, Kid Yamamoto, Ricardo Arona, Wanderlei Silva, Shogun Rua, hell, even Forrest has a purple belt. (For Danielson) Not to mention Din Thomas, Monson, Brandon Vera, Hermes Franca, Kenny Florian, I could go on forever. Everyone has BJJ as part of their game.
Why don't you list real karate black belts WHO STILL USE KARATE as part of their game. With the advent of McDojos, nearly everyone has karate as an art formerly trained, myself included.
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sincity is a small guy. they spend their wholes lives telling themselves size dont matter.
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sincity is a small guy. they spend their wholes lives telling themselves size dont matter.
Yes, you can tell the shrimps on here because they get so offended when anyone
brings up size hahaha. The number of Napolean complexes is amazing.
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Thats because in UFC one Rorion's back group picked guys who appeared large and STRONG who had little to no ground experience. The only one with ground experience was Shammy. A wrestler with a blue belt would have done just as good. How active was Royce's guard. Anyone of that original batch had a clue to posture up and hips in to stack Royce. Anyone even attempt to pass?
Your second part of this diatribe doesn't make sense also. Jits players doing well in MMA: Let me see. BJ Penn, Napao, Big, Lil Nog, Anderson Silva, Shinya Aoki, Kid Yamamoto, Ricardo Arona, Wanderlei Silva, Shogun Rua, hell, even Forrest has a purple belt. (For Danielson) Not to mention Din Thomas, Monson, Brandon Vera, Hermes Franca, Kenny Florian, I could go on forever. Everyone has BJJ as part of their game.
Why don't you list real karate black belts WHO STILL USE KARATE as part of their game. With the advent of McDojos, nearly everyone has karate as an art formerly trained, myself included.
Most of the champions use wrestling as their primary grappling art, not Jiu Jitsu.
Many current and past champions use Full-contact Karate in K-1 and MMA, along with the crosstraining that is normal for the modern MMA fighter, especially in grappling.
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Yes, you can tell the shrimps on here because they get so offended when anyone
brings up size hahaha. The number of Napolean complexes is amazing.
im trying to find out just how small he is, maybe midget small?
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im trying to find out just how small he is, maybe midget small?
6'2" and around 190lbs I told you this on another board... Hence the small guy as this is a body building board... But not small in relative size to the rest of the world... ;D ;D ;D
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im trying to find out just how small he is, maybe midget small?
He's probably hoping to get extra work as Elf #17 in Bad Santa 3.
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6'2" and around 190lbs I told you this on another board... Hence the small guy as this is a body building board... But not small in relative size to the rest of the world... ;D ;D ;D
allright thought you were a midget there for a second, i guess only your brain is :D
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6'2" and around 190lbs I told you this on another board... Hence the small guy as this is a body building board... But not small in relative size to the rest of the world... ;D ;D ;D
I think you should cut 20 and fight Hughes. ;)
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I think you should cut 20 and fight Hughes. ;)
Hughes is a lil short but a ripped as beast... Dude has natural farm boy strength.. Which I value much more over weight training.. I wouldnt want to, but I would love the chance to throw on some gloves and roll and spar with him for sure... ;D ;D ;D Wouldn't turn it down for the world that is for sure..
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Hughes is a lil short but a ripped as beast... Dude has natural farm boy strength.. Which I value much more over weight training.. I wouldnt want to, but I would love the chance to throw on some gloves and roll and spar with him for sure... ;D ;D ;D Wouldn't turn it down for the world that is for sure..
He kicked that little dude real hard in the ribs on Tapout a few weeks ago. I thought they were just fucking around, wrestling a bit, and Hughes fkn kicks him in the ribs, he seems like a dick.
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He kicked that little dude real hard in the ribs on Tapout a few weeks ago. I thought they were just fucking around, wrestling a bit, and Hughes fkn kicks him in the ribs, he seems like a dick.
that's okay my old man is a dick when it comes to training to and he's 6'6" 6'7" and 335lbs... He doesn't cut me any slack and my instructor for JJ is a complete dick he holds things extra long. I don't mind, I took a black eye the other week from him kicking me in the face as he was applying the arm bar.. I wouldn't give it up and so he gave me a nice heel to eyeball... ;D ;D ;D ;D The boss wasn't to happy about that...
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Most of the champions use wrestling as their primary grappling art, not Jiu Jitsu.
Many current and past champions use Full-contact Karate in K-1 and MMA, along with the crosstraining that is normal for the modern MMA fighter, especially in grappling.
Name me one other than the guy I will give you, Lyoto Machida. GSP, although he did train karate, does Muay Thai with Kru Phil Nurse. You always name Bas, but what techniques does Bas use, muay thai. His replacement coach, Sean Thompkins, what does he train the Anacondas with, muay thai. Again, other than Lyoto, who is using karate in mma? Awaiting you answer.
And if you think no one uses BJJ in mma then you are clueless.
BTW, how many shotokan practicioners in mma? Not counting kyoshukin....
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Bulldog, I know you are a smart, knowledgable guy, but you have a habit of building explanations around your forgone conclusions.
*Currently, Semmy Schilt, is the champion of the K-1.
He's a Full-Contact Karate practicioner.
*Andy Hug was a recent K-1 champion(he died), with victories over Muay-Thai/kickboxing practicioners Aerts, and Hoost.
He's a Full-Contact Karate practicioner, and he is also one of the smallest K-1 heavyweight champions in history.
*Former UFC champion Bas Rutten is a karateka cross trained in many martial arts.
He didn't dabble in karate...he's 6th degree by his own admission.
You don't dabble in karate and earn 6th degree.
It takes years of brutal conditioning, mastery of katas, and actual fighting:
Q: How many different styles of fighting have you trained in? Do you have any ranks? Who do you consider your teacher?
Bas: Tae Kwon Do 2nd Degree, Kyokushin Karate 2nd Degree, Thai boxing yellow slip (just kidding), Kyokushin All round fighting 5th Degree (I received this after I defeated Takahashi. I didn’t do any test for this).
I thought a lot myself, striking wise I would say that I learned the most at Mean Ho gym in Breda Holland. Cor Hemmers is the teacher there, he is very good. I started learning the basics in Grappling with Chris Dolman in Holland.
*Former UFC Lightheavyweight Champion Chuck Liddel is also a blackbelt in karate.
A former UFC Light Heavyweight champion, Liddell has an extensive background in kickboxing and collegiate wrestling. He is associated with the Pit team and recently earned a purple belt in Brazilian jiu-jitsu. However, he is generally regarded as a stand-up fighter, relying primarily on his background in Kempo karate and Koei-Kan karate.
*Former UFC Welterweight Champion Georges Saint Pierre is a Full Contact Karate Fighter:
Early career
St. Pierre had dreamed of becoming a UFC champion since watching Royce Gracie fight in 1993 at UFC 1.[8] GSP had his first amateur bout when he was only 16 years old. He states, "When I won my first amateur (MMA) fight, I was 16 years old and I beat a guy that was 25. I was only a Kyokushin karate fighter and the guy I fought was a boxer. At the time my ground skills were very poor, I didn’t know nothing on the ground.” St. Pierre won his fight by knockout, going low with several leg kicks and then going high with a kick to the head. To this day many fans and much of the media has him pegged as a wrestler, or a Brazilian jiu-jitsu fighter, but he still considers himself a karate stylist at heart.[9]
The First UFCs were held by the Gracie family to sell BJJ as a fighting style capable of allowing a smaller man defeat a larger opponent.
What a great selling point.
The fact is, the most impressive wins over large opponents came from the Karate fighters.
But the Gracies were in control of the tournament, and the Gracies get the glory. That's business for you.
I think they should have put Gracie in there with Yarborough.
*200 pound Kempo practicioner Keith Hackney beat a 6'8" 600 pound Yarborough.
*5'10" Tae Kwon Do fighter Cal Worsham beat a 6'8" 300 pound Paul Varelans.
*215 pound Savate and Karate practicioner Gerard Gordeau beat a 415 pound Tila Tuli.
Karate is stronger today than ever.
Every fighter cross traines today,
but to insinuate that fighters like Bas Rutten only use Muay-Thai and abandoned their years of Karate training is insulting to the intelligence of the fighters.
The inside fighting Bas used in his Pancrase days, and the way he uses his hands to strike comes from years karate training.
In Karate they teach you to block and stike the body from the inside, Muay-Thai emphasis the clinch. Bas made good use of both techniques.
GSP has finished opponents with spinning backkicks, and they don't even use that in traditional Muay-Thai.
He and Liddell also make use of deep karate stances.
You can go to Japan or Holland, and you'll find out how seriously they take karate.
Perhaps that's why Americans don't produce many highly succesful K-1 fighters.
In Japan and Holland they train in Karate, Muay-Thai, and kickboxing.
In America they train in boxing and learn how to throw a roundhouse kick.
The origins of kickboxing and K-1 are in Karate.
Kickboxing, as a style, is karate without the kata(which ARE important to fighting), and with boxing hand techniques.
The reason is, gloves eliminate the effectiveness of inside blocking/fighting. It's adaptation to the ring.
On December 20, 1959, a Muay Thai match among Thai fighters was held at Tokyo Asakusa town hall in Japan. Tatsuo Yamada who had established "Nihon Kempo Karate-do" was interested in Muay Thai because he wanted to perform Karate matches in Full-contact rules since practitioners are not allowed to hit each other directly in Karate matches. At this time, it was unimaginable to hit each other in Karate matches in Japan. He had already announced his planning which was named "The draft principles of project of establishment of a new sport and its industrialization" in November, 1959, and he put forward a new sport "Karate-boxing" which was a tentative name then. It is still unknown that Thai fighters were invited by Yamada, but it is clear that Yamada was the only karateka who was really interested in Muay Thai. Yamada invited a Thai fighter who was the champion of Muay Thai formerly as his son Kan Yamada's sparring partner, and started studying Muay Thai. At this time, the Thai fighter was taken by Osamu Noguchi who was a promoter of boxing and was also interested in Muay Thai. For example, the Thai fighter's photo was on the magazine "The Primer of Nihon Kempo Karate-do, the first number" which was published by Yamada.
There were "Karate vs. Muay Thai fights" February 12, 1963. The 3 karate fighters from Oyama dojo (Kyokushin later) went to the Lumpinee Boxing Stadium in Thailand, and fought against 3 Muay Thai fighters. The 3 karate fighters' names are Tadashi Nakamura, Kenji Kurosaki and Akio Fujihira (as known as Noboru Osawa). Japan won by 2-1 then. Noguchi and Kenji Kurosaki (Kyokushin karate instructor) studied Muay thai and developed a combined martial art which Noguchi named kick boxing. However, throwing and butting were allowed in the beginning to distinguish from Muay Thai style. This was repealed later. The Kickboxing Association the first kickboxing sanctioning body was founded by Osamu Noguchi in 1966 soon after that. Then the first kickboxing event was held in Osaka, April 11, 1966. Tatsu Yamada died in 1967, but his dojo changed its name to Suginami Gym, and kept sending kickboxers off to support kickboxing.
The advantage Muay-Thai has over Karate is they teach the most effective techniques used in all standup and focus on them entirely.
Thus, it is possible to be effective with Muay-Thai early. However Karate teaches all the strikes used in Muay-Thai, and more, thus it is a more comprehensive system. It does take longer to master. Some kicks and strikes that aren't effective in sport fighting may be useful in certain real-world situations.
Kata is very important, not only as an endurance exercise, but as a means to practice technique.
The same way you type on Getbig everyday and develop muscle memory, you automatically strike the correct key without even thinking about it.
This is the purpose of kata. The instructors can make sure you are shifting the hips correctly when you punch etc.
It's doesn't take precedent over sparring and contact training except in American Tae Kwon Do McDojos.
All standup fighters, Karateka, MT, kickboxers...
make use of the same strikes in sport fighting-roundhouse, leg strikes, front kicks, etc.
The reason some standup styles like TKD have less success is more to do with the fact that they don't get their
trainees used to actually being hurt. It's a conditioning issue. This has to do with American schools being wary of getting
sued by soccor moms that just want a workout. They don't train the same way in Korea.
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Kempo Karate fighter Keith Hackney vs. 6'5'' 600 pound sumo wrestler in bareknuckle fight:
215 pound Savate and Karate fighter Gerard Gordeau vs. 400 pound giant Tila Tuli in full-contact bareknuckle fight:
Muay Thai fighter Changphuak Kiatsongrit, was one of the first Thai fighters to travel the world testing Muay-Thai against various styles.
Here he is facing Karate fighter Andy Hug under Karate rules:
Kickboxer, K-1 fighter, and UFC veteran Pat Smith takes on Japanese Seidokaikan Karate Fighter:
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Andy Hug VS Nobuaki Kakuda K-1 World GP 1993
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A decent explanation, but.....
Chuck, although a Kajukenbo (I was a green belt in Kajukembo) black belt, is more of a wrestler, with hands low and inside to block shots. HE ALWAYS keeps his hands in to get the double underhooks. His style of loopey punches is set up ON PURPOSE to catch someone when shooting. Why does John Hacklethorn have kempo as a seperate curriculum outside of his mma program? Because kempo sells for the young kids, but when you want to fight in MMA, you have to adopt different techniques effective to fighting MMA.
GSP although he uses a spinning reverse kick, training MUAY THAI with Kru Phil Nurse. A spinning back fist is part of the muay thai arsenal. As is a spinning elbow. Seems GSP has a likening to the superman punch as well.
How much does Bas teach the Anaconda's now that Sean Thompkins has taken a full time position at Xtreme Couture? How much did he teach them when he was the head coach? I was a kempo, tae kwon do participant previously. I am still an instructor in wing chun. Do I practice it, NO. Do I teach it anymore? NO. Does it make it bad? NO. But you come on here and say that Karate is THE martial art. Hate to break the news to you, it aint. It hasn't been for some time. Were there some EXTREMELY tough SOBs previously? YES.
I agree with you on a lot of things, but to say that Karate is the best. Which YOU HAVE DONE ON NUMEROUS occasions on an MMA board is gonna get you flamed. So, please if you will, other than Lyoto Machida, who amongst successful MMA fighters today practices karate?
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I already explained it to you thoroughly. They all practice karate; they are all highly proficient in it.
It's funny how you seem to think you know more about the fighters than the fighters themselves.
There's no hope for you!
Any athletic, natural fighter, is going to be dangerous with Muay-Thai, Tae Kwon Do, Kickboxing, etc.
You can't however, take a weakling and turn him into a killer.
I got news for you, Bas Rutten, by his own admission, practices katas.
Even in his MMA days.
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A decent explanation, but.....
Chuck, although a Kajukenbo (I was a green belt in Kajukembo) black belt, is more of a wrestler, with hands low and inside to block shots. HE ALWAYS keeps his hands in to get the double underhooks. His style of loopey punches is set up ON PURPOSE to catch someone when shooting. Why does John Hacklethorn have kempo as a seperate curriculum outside of his mma program? Because kempo sells for the young kids, but when you want to fight in MMA, you have to adopt different techniques effective to fighting MMA.
GSP although he uses a spinning reverse kick, training MUAY THAI with Kru Phil Nurse. A spinning back fist is part of the muay thai arsenal. As is a spinning elbow. Seems GSP has a likening to the superman punch as well.
How much does Bas teach the Anaconda's now that Sean Thompkins has taken a full time position at Xtreme Couture? How much did he teach them when he was the head coach? I was a kempo, tae kwon do participant previously. I am still an instructor in wing chun. Do I practice it, NO. Do I teach it anymore? NO. Does it make it bad? NO. But you come on here and say that Karate is THE martial art. Hate to break the news to you, it aint. It hasn't been for some time. Were there some EXTREMELY tough SOBs previously? YES.
I agree with you on a lot of things, but to say that Karate is the best. Which YOU HAVE DONE ON NUMEROUS occasions on an MMA board is gonna get you flamed. So, please if you will, other than Lyoto Machida, who amongst successful MMA fighters today practices karate?
Agreed, I personally don't think MMA would look too much different than it does right now if you were to remove Karate from it.
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Most of the champions use wrestling as their primary grappling art, not Jiu Jitsu.
Many current and past champions use Full-contact Karate in K-1 and MMA, along with the crosstraining that is normal for the modern MMA fighter, especially in grappling.
I am not sure the first line is true. Collegiate wrestling and Olympics wrestling do not include armbars or any type of choke. The idea is to get the guys shoulders on the mat. I see more RNC than I see a wrestler trying to keep his opponent on his back. IN MMA it is better to get back control. The complete opposite of wrestling. I don't see much of that in MMA. The wrestling experience defintiely helps with their jiu-jitsu but thats about it. It will also help with controlling on the ground but I think jiu-jitsu is the primary ground game not wrestling. I will be posting the poster from UFC 1. I think we have it in storage.
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I am not sure the first line is true. Collegiate wrestling and Olympics wrestling do not include armbars or any type of choke. The idea is to get the guys shoulders on the mat. I see more RNC than I see a wrestler trying to keep his opponent on his back. IN MMA it is better to get back control. The complete opposite of wrestling. I don't see much of that in MMA. The wrestling experience defintiely helps with their jiu-jitsu but thats about it. It will also help with controlling on the ground but I think jiu-jitsu is the primary ground game not wrestling. I will be posting the poster from UFC 1. I think we have it in storage.
RKBB simply wants to argue. To say that BJJ is not the primary ground art is silly. Wrestling is great for takedowns, and control. BJJ picks up where wrestling leaves off.
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I am not sure the first line is true. Collegiate wrestling and Olympics wrestling do not include armbars or any type of choke. The idea is to get the guys shoulders on the mat. I see more RNC than I see a wrestler trying to keep his opponent on his back. IN MMA it is better to get back control. The complete opposite of wrestling. I don't see much of that in MMA. The wrestling experience defintiely helps with their jiu-jitsu but thats about it. It will also help with controlling on the ground but I think jiu-jitsu is the primary ground game not wrestling. I will be posting the poster from UFC 1. I think we have it in storage.
JJ is definately superior on the ground but you cant learn from jj the type of bodyweight manipulation ,yours or your opponents, and pure power that comes from wrestling. Wrestling makes it easier to get to the ground and JJ teaches what to do with them and what to prevent them from doing to you.
Also, as far as the effectiveness of karate is concerned I find it quite telling that karate( including forms and breaking) is not the main form of hand to hand combat taught by the military.
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JJ is definately superior on the ground but you cant learn from jj the type of bodyweight manipulation ,yours or your opponents, and pure power that comes from wrestling. Wrestling makes it easier to get to the ground and JJ teaches what to do with them and what to prevent them from doing to you.
Also, as far as the effectiveness of karate is concerned I find it quite telling that karate( including forms and breaking) is not the main form of hand to hand combat taught by the military.
Wait, I thought the combatives program taught to our military was Karate? Oh, it's not? It is more grappling/jiujitsu based you say?
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Wait, I thought the combatives program taught to our military was Karate? Oh, it's not? It is more grappling/jiujitsu based you say?
Sort of, they implement BASIC kicks but a lot of it is joint locks/manipulation. Close combat techniques(foot stomp,ear strikes, neck strikes.) and even advance knife techniques and knife defense tactics. More and more grappling and jiu jistu are being implemented and I see that only continuing. I think you can find some of the older Military Hand to Hand Combat manuals on the net. I have a hard copy.
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*Catch wrestlers, Sambo wrestlers, and Judo wrestlers all use submissions.
*Ground and pound can also force an opponent to submit.
*GnP is how both UFC and PRIDE heavyweight champs often get the win.
Furthermore, just because I learn how to do an armbar doesn't make me a BJJ fighter.
I learned about kimuras and armbars sitting on my ass watching UFC fights. Does that make me a BJJ fighter?
The following are styles of wrestling:Sambo, Judo, Greco-Roman, and Freestyle.
According to the International Federation of Associated Wrestling Styles (FILA), Greco-Roman wrestling is one of the four main forms of amateur competitive wrestling practiced internationally today, the other three being Freestyle wrestling, judo, and sambo.
So with that in mind, let's look at the facts:
*PRIDE Heayweight Champion: Fedor Emelianenko, style:Sambo
*UFC Heavyweight Champion: Randy Couture, style:Greco-Roman
*PRIDE Lightheavyweight Champion: Dan Henderson, style: Greco-Roman (before belt unification)
*UFC Lightheavyweight Champion: Quentin Jackson, style: Freestyle Wrestling, boxing
So again, I'm vindicated by the facts. The champions are all wrestlers, not BJJ guys.
All champions above super-smallweight are wrestlers!
You hardly see any Jiu-Jitsu in MMA anymore, as Jiu-Jitsu primarily works on clothes. The stuff you are seeing is Judo at best.
Gracie "Jiu-Jitsu" is somewhat of a misnomer, as the styles origins lie in the JUDO tought by a Japanese to Helio.
Gracie Judo is a more accurate term.
And if you still think strength isn't the most important factor, there's this style called Aikido that might serve you.
It worked for Segal!
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j51/realkarateblackbelt/images.jpg)
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man on a So with that in mind, let's look at the facts:
*PRIDE Heayweight Champion: Mirko Cro Cop, style:Sambo
*UFC Heavyweight Champion: Randy Couture, style:Greco-Roman
*PRIDE Lightheavyweight Champion: Dan Henderson, style: Greco-Roman (before belt unification)
*UFC Lightheavyweight Champion: Quentin Jackson, style: Freestyle Wrestling, boxing
That is not a fact.
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*Catch wrestlers, Sambo wrestlers, and Judo wrestlers all use submissions.
*Ground and pound can also force an opponent to submit.
*GnP is how both UFC and PRIDE heavyweight champs often get the win.
Furthermore, just because I learn how to do an armbar doesn't make me a BJJ fighter.
I learned about kimuras and armbars sitting on my ass watching UFC fights. Does that make me a BJJ fighter?
The following are styles of wrestling:Sambo, Judo, Greco-Roman, and Freestyle.
So with that in mind, let's look at the facts:
*PRIDE Heayweight Champion: Fedor Emelianenko, style:Sambo
*UFC Heavyweight Champion: Randy Couture, style:Greco-Roman
*PRIDE Lightheavyweight Champion: Dan Henderson, style: Greco-Roman (before belt unification)
*UFC Lightheavyweight Champion: Quentin Jackson, style: Freestyle Wrestling, boxing
So again, I'm vindicated by the facts. The champions are all wrestlers, not BJJ guys.
All champions above super-smallweight are wrestlers!
You hardly see any Jiu-Jitsu in MMA anymore, as Jiu-Jitsu primarily works on clothes. The stuff you are seeing is Judo at best.
Gracie "Jiu-Jitsu" is somewhat of a misnomer, as the styles origins lie in the JUDO tought by a Japanese to Helio.
Gracie Judo is a more accurate term.
And if you still think strength isn't the most important factor, there's this style called Aikido that might serve you.
It worked for Segal!
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j51/realkarateblackbelt/images.jpg)
Randy trains BJJ. As does Hendo. Page started his career with Fabiano Iha, a BJJ black belt. Sambo and BJJ came from Judo. The newaza techniques are very similar, BJJ simply has the better positional skills, and well as transitions and set ups. I trained karate before, and don't consider myself a karate guy simply because when I fight, I DON"T USE KARATE.
Doesn't GSP use BJJ, Matt Serra is a black belt, Hughes even uses BJJ. Sherk used BJJ to defeat Franca. Rich Franklin, former middleweight champ uses BJJ and trains at a BJJ academy. Chuck is a purple with John Lewis, Tito trains with Ricco a black, and Dean Lister another black. Wandy, Shogun are both black belts. More people use BJJ in fighting than people who use Karate. So why would anyone want to ask you a question on an MMA board?
You talk about using an armbar and a kimura, subs that are universal to most grappling arts, but the use of the guard is something popularized by Relio. If you pull off an armbar or triangle from the guard, aren't you using BJJ? Again, name me 1 fighter other than Lyoto Machida who uses Karate extensively in his MMA fighting game? Still can't....
My nephew, a blue belt went to Pendleton and was submitting, sweeping, embarassing the Marine Combatives instructor. who told all the recruits that what he was taught was more efficient than BJJ. Yeah, right.
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I can't believe the hilarious title of this thread!??
I just "dropped by" this forum today to find out what happened in the Lawler/Rua EliteXC matchup last night, which I missed (damn it...got any links to vids. of the action?!)!
Gee now, let's see...I've been practicing the martial-arts since approx. 1956...boxing, freestyle intercollegiate wrestling, Judo. JJJ/GJJ, Karate', Tae Kwon Do, Kung-Fu, JKD, Pankration, Muay Thai, Pananjakman, Krav Maga, military CCC/RAT, on a REGULAR basis for count em' (fucckin' count em! ) 51+ years!!!
"REAL Karate (duhhh...you forget the original correct accent mark in the word Karate') Black Belt"...51+ years of "MMA" training, why, why, that's longer than you've been alive!! Geez, does that make me some sort of "martial-arts expert"!??
Besides competing in a battery of martial-arts tournaments/matches from the 50's-70's (uhhh...that's approx. 20 looong yrs.), I've got a drawer full of dusty "black belt certificates". Also, I've also instructed the hard/soft martial-arts for most of that time.
Oh, and one more thing, I was able to use my MMA/CCC skills for REAL in a place called "Vietnam", where I actually killed people utilizing these skills!
Big fucckin' deal!!
All this out-the-ass hard/soft MMA "experience" has taught me two things: HUMILITY and to NEVER STOP MY MMA TRAINING!!!
"Real Karate' Black Belt", what you need to do is write down in big red letters on a piece of paper what Bruce Lee said, "ALL A 'BLACK BELT' IS GOOD FOR IS HOLDING UP YOUR PANTS!". PERIOD!
Read Bruce Lee's comment on the "worth" of a black belt over 1000 times and then have someone rub your arrogant face/nose in it!
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First of all, Bruce Lee never fought one karate blackbelt in competition or on the street.
A guy like Joe Lewis (not the boxer, the karate expert) would have destroyed him.
Bruce Lee by all accounts had trouble beating some Gong Fu guy in a streetfight,
and some say Lee didn't even win.
And then what? The Bruce Lee myth would have been destroyed.
I don't believe in myths or hype; I believe in what has been proven to work.
The only record of Bruce Lee's fights are some wins people claimed he scored over guys that hopped his backyard fence.
Guys like Chuck Norris and Joe Lewis, would easily beat Bruce Lee.
They actually fought people and experienced fractured jaws and broken bones.
Lee was an actor first, a fighter second.
His applied fighting ability is entirely suspect.
EVERY MMA fighter cross-trains to some degree, but the core of Randy's style is Greco-Roman wrestling.
The core of Georges Saint Pierres style is Karate.
The core of Liddel's training is Kempo Karate
The core of Fedor's training is Sambo.
Everything else is supplemental.
They learn some Brasilian Jiu-Jitsu to complement their style,
but no to the degree of proficiency as their core style.
For example, Randy would do very well in a Greco-Roman tournament;
in a Jiu-Jitsu tournament he would be put in some hold using the Gi that he's never heard of.
His Jiu-Jitsu skills are limited. They compliment his Greco-Roman and that's it.
*The more you know the better off you are.
*The stronger you are the better off you are.
And now you know!
If you think Bruce Lee was fast, watch 2:50 of this Joe Lewis point match and don't blink. Joe was a lot heavier than Lee too:
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First of all, Bruce Lee never fought one karate blackbelt in competition or on the street.
A guy like Joe Lewis (not the boxer, the karate expert) would have destroyed him.
Bruce Lee by all accounts had trouble beating some Gong Fu guy in a streetfight,
and some say Lee didn't even win.
And then what? The Bruce Lee myth would have been destroyed.
I don't believe in myths or hype; I believe in what has been proven to work.
The only record of Bruce Lee's fights are some wins people claimed he scored over guys that hopped his backyard fence.
Guys like Chuck Norris and Joe Lewis, would easily beat Bruce Lee.
They actually fought people and experienced fractured jaws and broken bones.
Lee was an actor first, a fighter second.
His applied fighting ability is entirely suspect.
EVERY MMA fighter cross-trains to some degree, but the core of Randy's style is Greco-Roman wrestling.
The core of Georges Saint Pierres style is Karate.
The core of Liddel's training is Kempo Karate WRONG
The core of Fedor's training is Sambo. (An offshoot of Judo, as is BJJ)
Everything else is supplemental.
They learn some Brasilian Jiu-Jitsu to complement their style,
but no to the degree of proficiency as their core style.
(Randy tied Jacare in a submission grappling tournament, which is pretty much made up of BJJ players) He even took Jacare's back, a non greco move.
For example, Randy would do very well in a Greco-Roman tournament;
in a Jiu-Jitsu tournament he would be put in some hold using the Gi that he's never heard of.
His Jiu-Jitsu skills are limited. They compliment his Greco-Roman and that's it. WRONG again, see above
*The more you know the better off you are.
*The stronger you are the better off you are.
And now you know!
If you think Bruce Lee was fast, watch 2:50 of this Joe Lewis point match and don't blink. Joe was a lot heavier than Lee too:
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How much Kajukenbo does Chuck use in his fights? (You prolly don't know what is in kajukenbo, but I do) Other than a spinning reverse kick, how much karate is in GSP's arsenal? I see the Greco in Randy's game.
Who other than Lyoto Machida is a Karate biased fighter in MMA? Still haven't answered the question.
I have actually trained with Joe Lewis. He was a student of Bruce Lee's. I trained with him TWICE at an IMB instructor's seminars. Have you? How much shotokan is in MMA? Why would we want to ask someone who is a blackbelt in an art that ISN'T used in MMA a question on an MMA board?
Please, I await you answers, stop skirting the question.
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I already answered you. You're going round in circles after I already proved you wrong with quotes from the fighters themselves....
The lineage of Kyokushin is rooted in shotokan.
Oyama was Funakoshi's student.
Karate is used in MMA by the champions, and in K-1 by the champions. If you want to continue denying the facts, why do you train with karate guys? Should be a waste of time from your perspective.
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I already answered you. You're going round in circles after I already proved you wrong with quotes from the fighters themselves....
The lineage of Kyokushin is rooted in shotokan.
Oyama was Funakoshi's student.
Karate is used in MMA by the champions, and in K-1 by the champions. If you want to continue denying the facts, why do you train with karate guys? Should be a waste of time from your perspective.
It is, and that is why I don't anymore. I took kajukenbo because my parente made me do it. I told my Dad I wanted to stop when one of my buddies who was a black belt got his butt handed to him by a kid named Kimo Leopoldo. (Yeah, that Kimo) My friend Kyle was a 12 year old black belt, that should have given me a clue.
Again, instead of going in circles, why not answer the SPECIFIC QUESTION. Who other than Lyoto Machida uses karate extensively in MMA?
Why does Randy hire Shawn Thompkins to be the striking coach at Xtreme Couture when Karate is sooooo much better. Maybe YOU should apply for a job there.
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I should.
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I should.
I give up. It seems logic isn't one of your strong points. I hope your ridgehand is.
Top MMA Fight Schools:
Team Quest
Xtreme Couture
Chute Boxe
MFS
ATT
Blackhouse
BTT
What they all have in common, no striking coach who teaches Karate.
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I'm just going to retire from this forum and set up a bot quoting myself:
The advantage Muay-Thai has over Karate is they teach the most effective techniques used in all standup and focus on them entirely.
Thus, it is possible to be effective with Muay-Thai early. However Karate teaches all the strikes used in Muay-Thai, and more, thus it is a more comprehensive system. It does take longer to master. Some kicks and strikes that aren't effective in sport fighting may be useful in certain real-world situations
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I'm just going to retire from this forum and set up a bot quoting myself:
To your credit, no matter how delusional and misguided you believe, at least you believe.
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Sort of, they implement BASIC kicks but a lot of it is joint locks/manipulation. Close combat techniques(foot stomp,ear strikes, neck strikes.) and even advance knife techniques and knife defense tactics. More and more grappling and jiu jistu are being implemented and I see that only continuing. I think you can find some of the older Military Hand to Hand Combat manuals on the net. I have a hard copy.
Modern combatives program has more of it's roots in BJJ than older manuals would suggest. Rorion, Royce, were certifying instructors in modern combatives.
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Winner: AmericanBulldog (via one sided thrashing)
end of thread
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Winner: AmericanBulldog (via one sided thrashing)
end of thread
Instructor at Team Quest, Temecula:
Full Name: Vinicius Magalhaes
Nick Name:Pezao
Lineage: Vinicius Aieta/Royler Gracie
Academy: Gracie Tijuca
Belt Rank: Black Belt
Country: United States
Titles and Awards:
ACCOMPLISHMENTS:
GRACIE HUMAITA'S BLACK BELT (ROYLER GRACIE'S SCHOOL)
3X BJJ WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP GOLD MEDALIST
BJJ WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP SILVER MEDALIST
2X BJJ WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP BRONZE MEDALIST
2X BJJ BRAZILIAN NATIONAL GOLD MEDALIST
PANAMERICAN GOLD MEDALIST
2X BJJ AMERICAN NATIONAL GOLD MEDALIST
US OPEN GOLD MEDALIST
6X RIO DE JANEIRO STATE CHAMPIONSHIP GOLD MEDALIST
3X RIO DE JANEIRO STATE RANKING CHAMPION
GRAPPLERS QUEST PRO NO GI CHAMPION
PROFESSIONAL SUBMISSION LEAGUE (LA SUB X) CHAMPION
So Hendo and crew do train BJJ, but NOT KARATE.
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Modern combatives program has more of it's roots in BJJ than older manuals would suggest. Rorion, Royce, were certifying instructors in modern combatives.
I agree. I think they have seen how effective it is.
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Instructor at Team Quest, Temecula:
Full Name: Vinicius Magalhaes
Nick Name:Pezao
Lineage: Vinicius Aieta/Royler Gracie
Academy: Gracie Tijuca
Belt Rank: Black Belt
Country: United States
Titles and Awards:
ACCOMPLISHMENTS:
GRACIE HUMAITA'S BLACK BELT (ROYLER GRACIE'S SCHOOL)
3X BJJ WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP GOLD MEDALIST
BJJ WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP SILVER MEDALIST
2X BJJ WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP BRONZE MEDALIST
2X BJJ BRAZILIAN NATIONAL GOLD MEDALIST
PANAMERICAN GOLD MEDALIST
2X BJJ AMERICAN NATIONAL GOLD MEDALIST
US OPEN GOLD MEDALIST
6X RIO DE JANEIRO STATE CHAMPIONSHIP GOLD MEDALIST
3X RIO DE JANEIRO STATE RANKING CHAMPION
GRAPPLERS QUEST PRO NO GI CHAMPION
PROFESSIONAL SUBMISSION LEAGUE (LA SUB X) CHAMPION
So Hendo and crew do train BJJ, but NOT KARATE.
You know im in agreeance with you in just about everything you've said in this thread right? Although, Vinicius is more commonly known as "draculino", unless he changed his nickname.
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Two haters engaging in mutual masturbation.
Too bad facts and quotes from fighters don't agree. :D
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Two haters engaging in mutual masturbation.
Too bad facts and quotes from fighters don't agree. :D
You should be a politician. Just so you understand. WHO OTHER THAN LYOTO MACHIDA USES KARATE EXTENSIVELY IN HIS MMA GAME?
Let see if you have reading comprehension skills.
And BTW "RKBB" Joe Lewis attended the IMB seminar workshops to show everyone kickboxing, not karate. No question was asked about karate, no one was interested in karate. If anything, people asked more questions about how Bruce Lee changed his kickboxing game. How much does the Sabaki challenge sell in PPVs? Oh, that is another quesiton that prolly will go unanswered.
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RealKarateBlackbelt...ca n you just answer the question?? the more you igore it the more you discredit your claims.
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RealKarateBlackbelt...ca n you just answer the question?? the more you ignore it the more you discredit your claims.
Didn't know he had any credibility. ;)
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Didn't know he had any credibility. ;)
Nor did I... :-X
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Kickboxing is karate as sport. I already went through this.
I already explained to you who uses karate in mma, complete with facts and quotes from the fighters that use it.
YOU need to learn how to read. Go wallow in your ignorance, as a person in the know I don't care.
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To think you were almost taken seriously on this board before posting this thread.
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To think you were almost taken seriously on this board before posting this thread.
I think you are being too kind. After his thread about not taking gear and being 6'0, 255 all muscle, people stopped taking him seriously.
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strongman magnus samuelsson is 2 meters, 330 pounds
i dont think he juices.
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I think you are being too kind. After his thread about not taking gear and being 6'0, 255 all muscle, people stopped taking him seriously.
he didnt really say that did he?
..with his Karate knowledge coupled with his physique, they should take the title the "Perfect Weapon" away from Jeff Speakman and give it to RealBlackBelt....
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Once again, Karate is proven superior.
And yes, when Oyama sent his best fighters to compete against Muay-Thai in Lumpini, the Karate fighters won.
Not only is the K-1 champ a Karate Practicioner, now Lyoto Machida is dominating the sloppy American fighters with his Shotokan Karate in MMA as well!
Lyoto is undefeated in MMA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyoto_Machida
11 Wins (3 (T)KO's, 1 submission, 7 decisions), 0 Losses .
Date Result Opponent Event Method Round Time
9/22/2007 Win Kazuhiro Nakamura UFC 76: Knockout Decision (Unanimous) 3 5:00
4/21/2007 Win David Heath UFC 70: Nations Collide Decision (Unanimous) 3 5:00
02/03/2007 Win Sam Hoger UFC 67: All or Nothing Decision (Unanimous) 3 5:00
07/22/2006 Win Vernon White WFA: King of the Streets Decision (Unanimous) 3 5:00
04/29/2006 Win Dimitri Wanderley JF 6-Jungle Fight 6 TKO (Punch) 3 0:00
03/26/2005 Win B.J. Penn K-1-Hero's 1 Decision (Unanimous) 3 5:00
05/22/2004 Win Sam Greco K-1 MMA-ROMANEX Decision (Split) 3 5:00
03/14/2004 Win Michael McDonald K-1-Beast 2004 Submission (Forearm Choke) 1 2:30
12/31/2003 Win Rich Franklin Inoki Bom-Ba-Ye 2003-Inoki Festival TKO (Strikes) 2 1:03
9/13/2003 Win Stephan Bonnar JF 1-Jungle Fight 1 TKO (Cut) 1 4:21
5/2/2003 Win Kengo Watanabe NJPW-Ultimate Crush Decision (Unanimous) 3 5:00
Many champs past and present use Karate as their standup base in MMA and kickboxing (Bas Rutten, Semmy Schilt, Musashi, Hug, GSP, Liddel, et al), with crosstraining in Kickboxing (sport karate) and Muay-Thai, but Machida is pure Shotokan standup. I laugh because the sloppy Americans that punch bags all day with their sloppy technique don't know what to do with this guy hahaha.
Knocking out the phony Rich Franklin:
Beating BJ Penn:
&mode=related&search=
Beating the Bonnar:
&mode=related&search=
Lytoto tournament:
&mode=related&search=
Karate is the greatest standup style!
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Once again, Karate is proven superior.
And yes, when Oyama sent his best fighters to compete against Muay-Thai in Lumpini, the Karate fighters won.
Not only is the K-1 champ a Karate Practicioner, now Lyoto Machida is dominating the sloppy American fighters with his Shotokan Karate in MMA as well!
Lyoto is undefeated in MMA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyoto_Machida
11 Wins (3 (T)KO's, 1 submission, 7 decisions), 0 Losses .
Date Result Opponent Event Method Round Time
9/22/2007 Win Kazuhiro Nakamura UFC 76: Knockout Decision (Unanimous) 3 5:00
4/21/2007 Win David Heath UFC 70: Nations Collide Decision (Unanimous) 3 5:00
02/03/2007 Win Sam Hoger UFC 67: All or Nothing Decision (Unanimous) 3 5:00
07/22/2006 Win Vernon White WFA: King of the Streets Decision (Unanimous) 3 5:00
04/29/2006 Win Dimitri Wanderley JF 6-Jungle Fight 6 TKO (Punch) 3 0:00
03/26/2005 Win B.J. Penn K-1-Hero's 1 Decision (Unanimous) 3 5:00
05/22/2004 Win Sam Greco K-1 MMA-ROMANEX Decision (Split) 3 5:00
03/14/2004 Win Michael McDonald K-1-Beast 2004 Submission (Forearm Choke) 1 2:30
12/31/2003 Win Rich Franklin Inoki Bom-Ba-Ye 2003-Inoki Festival TKO (Strikes) 2 1:03
9/13/2003 Win Stephan Bonnar JF 1-Jungle Fight 1 TKO (Cut) 1 4:21
5/2/2003 Win Kengo Watanabe NJPW-Ultimate Crush Decision (Unanimous) 3 5:00
Many champs past and present use Karate as their standup base in MMA and kickboxing (Bas Rutten, Semmy Schilt, Musashi, Hug, GSP, Liddel, et al), with crosstraining in Kickboxing (sport karate) and Muay-Thai, but Machida is pure Shotokan standup. I laugh because the sloppy Americans that punch bags all day with their sloppy technique don't know what to do with this guy hahaha.
Knocking out the phony Rich Franklin:
Beating BJ Penn:
&mode=related&search=
Beating the Bonnar:
&mode=related&search=
Lytoto tournament:
&mode=related&search=
Karate is the greatest standup style!
who cares ?
-
Once again, Karate is proven superior.
And yes, when Oyama sent his best fighters to compete against Muay-Thai in Lumpini, the Karate fighters won.
Not only is the K-1 champ a Karate Practicioner, now Lyoto Machida is dominating the sloppy American fighters with his Shotokan Karate in MMA as well!
Lyoto is undefeated in MMA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyoto_Machida
11 Wins (3 (T)KO's, 1 submission, 7 decisions), 0 Losses .
Date Result Opponent Event Method Round Time
9/22/2007 Win Kazuhiro Nakamura UFC 76: Knockout Decision (Unanimous) 3 5:00
4/21/2007 Win David Heath UFC 70: Nations Collide Decision (Unanimous) 3 5:00
02/03/2007 Win Sam Hoger UFC 67: All or Nothing Decision (Unanimous) 3 5:00
07/22/2006 Win Vernon White WFA: King of the Streets Decision (Unanimous) 3 5:00
04/29/2006 Win Dimitri Wanderley JF 6-Jungle Fight 6 TKO (Punch) 3 0:00
03/26/2005 Win B.J. Penn K-1-Hero's 1 Decision (Unanimous) 3 5:00
05/22/2004 Win Sam Greco K-1 MMA-ROMANEX Decision (Split) 3 5:00
03/14/2004 Win Michael McDonald K-1-Beast 2004 Submission (Forearm Choke) 1 2:30
12/31/2003 Win Rich Franklin Inoki Bom-Ba-Ye 2003-Inoki Festival TKO (Strikes) 2 1:03
9/13/2003 Win Stephan Bonnar JF 1-Jungle Fight 1 TKO (Cut) 1 4:21
5/2/2003 Win Kengo Watanabe NJPW-Ultimate Crush Decision (Unanimous) 3 5:00
Many champs past and present use Karate as their standup base in MMA and kickboxing (Bas Rutten, Semmy Schilt, Musashi, Hug, GSP, Liddel, et al), with crosstraining in Kickboxing (sport karate) and Muay-Thai, but Machida is pure Shotokan standup. I laugh because the sloppy Americans that punch bags all day with their sloppy technique don't know what to do with this guy hahaha.
Knocking out the phony Rich Franklin:
Beating BJ Penn:
&mode=related&search=
Beating the Bonnar:
&mode=related&search=
Lytoto tournament:
&mode=related&search=
Karate is the greatest standup style!
Wow, what incredible power he posseses. What a clean KO of Nakamura. Hogar, Tiger White. AND BTW, didn't you use Chack as an example of a karate fighter. What excuse do you have for him losing to a muay thai trained fighter in Jardine.
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Chuck is on a downward spiral.
He just needs to retire, simple as that.
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Chuck is on a downward spiral.
He just needs to retire, simple as that.
That is whatever body said about randy. Maybe his body just needs to rest. Certainly he needs to come up with a new strategy
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He looks out of shape, he's older, he hasn't changed his strategy, rumours he's using the booger sugar...
Many contributing factors.
At least if he quite now people would assume it's because he knows he's not at his best.
If he keeps going he's going to ruin his legend like Ken Shamrock and Tank Abbott are doing.
I don't think he has the work ethic of Randy. Doubt he'll turn things around. Jardine?