Author Topic: Police State - Official Thread  (Read 995385 times)

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #2050 on: April 28, 2015, 12:54:59 PM »
what they should be shooting is rubber bullets

Agreed.  But that might impede on what the Mayor called their right to enjoy destruction... "give those who wished to destroy space to do that"

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #2051 on: April 28, 2015, 01:28:43 PM »
Yes, I'm sure she'll be punished. Just like the cop who forced a nineteen year old to have sex with him was punished. His brutal punishment for what amounts to rape includes not having to register as a sex offender and keeping his law enforcement certification.

I read the article. It's disgusting. Hopefully, there is more to this story then we get from the news report. The article did indicate that he will eventually be stripped of his law enforcement certification, as if that would stop him from repeating this crime.

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #2052 on: April 28, 2015, 01:41:22 PM »
I read a couple articles written by more competent journalists. Apparently the victim did not want to go to trial and sought that he be fired and spend time in jail. Without her testimony the DA was likely sucking wind on getting a conviction and had to plea bargain a deal. Background checks are done on applicants so it is very likely he will not be able to get a job in law enforcement. I would love for this guy to spend 25 yrs in a federal pen for taking advantage of a young girl like that. Then upon his release after 25 years hard time, he takes a sniper round in the head. Case is never solved.   

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #2053 on: April 28, 2015, 02:19:49 PM »
In this case, majority of this board are anti cop and since "Cops beating ____" fits their preconceived view of cops they don't bother to review it and operate on the assumptions its true. It really doesn't matter if it's true or not and they figure their buddies on the page won't bother to look at it either so its a safe assumption. Just my 2 cents

I don't think that's a fair assessment and, logically, this statement has fatal flaws (for fun, see how many logical fallacies you can identify - I could three). What strikes me the most about your analysis is the assertion that people are "anti-cop." Once you've branded them with this scarlet letter, then the rest proceeds from there: people are anti-cop, therefore they'll be against cops and thus, their criticisms can be disregarded. But it never asks why are these people "anti-cop"? I submit that a more careful and deep analysis would show that most people aren't, in fact, anti-cop; they are, however, anti-abusive-cop, and, as I am sure you'll agree, there is a big difference between a cop and an abusive cop.

So the question is _why_ do most people perceive cops as abusive? I suspect that the answer is twofold:

  • First, I thnk that most people have experienced cops flex their muscle (to varying degrees) and have heard friends and family suggest the same, which leads them to believe that this is commonplace; and
  • Second, I think that as audio and video recording become more prevalent, more people see instances of abuse - often egregious - since a "by the book" stop doesn't garner much attention.

Taken together, these two things paint a picture of most cops as egregious abusers, armed with guns and on the brink of going postal. Perhaps this picture is inaccurate. In fact, I'm willing to concede that most cops - even when flexing their proverbial muscle when someone commits the horrible offense of contempt of cop - are unlikely to beat people hard enough to rupture spleens or crack skulls open.

But the reality remains that even if they don't rupture splees or crack skulls open, the a large percentage of cops today routinely demand respect and deference by the serfs and are willing to punish, to varying degrees, those who don't live up to that expectation.

I'll give you an example: I was once stopped by a cop. He said that I was going 30 in a 25. I may very well have been - I wasn't focused obsessively on my speedometer. I was polite and courteous, and he was very professional. He handed me over a speeding ticket, before explaining that signing it was not an admission of guilt but a promise to appear. I replied with "Yes, I am aware. And even if I wasn't, it says so in bold letters, right above where I'm supposed to sign." All of a sudden, it was like I was teleported to bizarro-world. He grabbed the clipboard with the ticket from my hands and ordered me to step out of the vehicle. I complied, closing and locking the door behind me.

At this point, he got maybe an inch from my face and yelled point blank "IT SAYS SO RIGHT THERE, DOES IT? ARE YOU LOOKING FOR TROUBLE OR DO YOU THINK THIS IS A JOKE?" I replied with "Are you detaining me or am I free to go?" which infuriated him even more. He proceeded to demand that I produce my keys so that he could unlock my vehicle and search it because, suddenly, he could smell alcohol on my breath. I explained that I don't consent to any search. He told me I was being detained, before storming off into his cruiser.

Four more cruisers arrived and I was kept there for well over two hours (the law in my State prevents officers from detaining anyone for over 60 minutes) while he and his buddies chatted. Finally, he came back, handed me my ticket (now for 45 in a 25) and said "Your signature is not an admission of guilt, just a promise to appear." I signed and turned the ticket in, which, I guess, made him feel like an alpha male that had finally asserted his dominance.

When I asked for his business card and the name of his superior officer, he replied with "my name is on your fucking ticket, now get back in your fucking car and don't let me catch you speeding again." Later that day, I filed a complaint which was "investigated" and summarily dismissed in less than 24 hours.
 
Over the next 3 or 4 months I would get pulled over repeatedly by the same group of three cops for "swerving" or "not signaling for a lane change" or for having "worn tires" or even for "possibly illegal tint" on a vehicle with no tint at all. This, of course, resulted in significant frustration for me, as it resulted in a waste of time not only during the stop, but later when I had to take time off to go to the Courthouse to pay bail to schedule my trial, then take time off and attend the trial, whereupon, charges were summarily dropped when the ticketing cop wouldn't show up in Court.

Now, again. I'm willing to believe that these cops are the exception, but only in the sense that the length they went to isn't typical.

P.S.: You seem like a nice and reasonable guy and I'm willing to take you at your word that you're a good cop and the people you work with are good cops. I'm not suggesting that all cops are rotten. I'm only suggesting is that one rotten cop can wreak a lot of damage and the culture that is cultivated - a band-of-brothers against evil - makes it easy for the rot to spread and the system is rigged in such a way that punishing the bad apples is exceedingly difficult barring an exceptionally egregious case.

And I will ask you to ponder one simple question: if the average cop has an "us-vs-them" mentality, then what mentality do you expect the average citizen, that interacts with this average cop, to have?

Agnostic007

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #2054 on: April 28, 2015, 02:39:08 PM »
I don't think that's a fair assessment and, logically, this statement has fatal flaws (for fun, see how many logical fallacies you can identify - I could three). What strikes me the most about your analysis is the assertion that people are "anti-cop." Once you've branded them with this scarlet letter, then the rest proceeds from there: people are anti-cop, therefore they'll be against cops and thus, their criticisms can be disregarded. But it never asks why are these people "anti-cop"? I submit that a more careful and deep analysis would show that most people aren't, in fact, anti-cop; they are, however, anti-abusive-cop, and, as I am sure you'll agree, there is a big difference between a cop and an abusive cop.

So the question is _why_ do most people perceive cops as abusive? I suspect that the answer is twofold:

  • First, I thnk that most people have experienced cops flex their muscle (to varying degrees) and have heard friends and family suggest the same, which leads them to believe that this is commonplace; and
  • Second, I think that as audio and video recording become more prevalent, more people see instances of abuse - often egregious - since a "by the book" stop doesn't garner much attention.

Taken together, these two things paint a picture of most cops as egregious abusers, armed with guns and on the brink of going postal. Perhaps this picture is inaccurate. In fact, I'm willing to concede that most cops - even when flexing their proverbial muscle when someone commits the horrible offense of contempt of cop - are unlikely to beat people hard enough to rupture spleens or crack skulls open.

But the reality remains that even if they don't rupture splees or crack skulls open, the a large percentage of cops today routinely demand respect and deference by the serfs and are willing to punish, to varying degrees, those who don't live up to that expectation.

I'll give you an example: I was once stopped by a cop. He said that I was going 30 in a 25. I may very well have been - I wasn't focused obsessively on my speedometer. I was polite and courteous, and he was very professional. He handed me over a speeding ticket, before explaining that signing it was not an admission of guilt but a promise to appear. I replied with "Yes, I am aware. And even if I wasn't, it says so in bold letters, right above where I'm supposed to sign." All of a sudden, it was like I was teleported to bizarro-world. He grabbed the clipboard with the ticket from my hands and ordered me to step out of the vehicle. I complied, closing and locking the door behind me.

At this point, he got maybe an inch from my face and yelled point blank "IT SAYS SO RIGHT THERE, DOES IT? ARE YOU LOOKING FOR TROUBLE OR DO YOU THINK THIS IS A JOKE?" I replied with "Are you detaining me or am I free to go?" which infuriated him even more. He proceeded to demand that I produce my keys so that he could unlock my vehicle and search it because, suddenly, he could smell alcohol on my breath. I explained that I don't consent to any search. He told me I was being detained, before storming off into his cruiser.

Four more cruisers arrived and I was kept there for well over two hours (the law in my State prevents officers from detaining anyone for over 60 minutes) while he and his buddies chatted. Finally, he came back, handed me my ticket (now for 45 in a 25) and said "Your signature is not an admission of guilt, just a promise to appear." I signed and turned the ticket in, which, I guess, made him feel like an alpha male that had finally asserted his dominance.

When I asked for his business card and the name of his superior officer, he replied with "my name is on your fucking ticket, now get back in your fucking car and don't let me catch you speeding again." Later that day, I filed a complaint which was "investigated" and summarily dismissed in less than 24 hours.
 
Over the next 3 or 4 months I would get pulled over repeatedly by the same group of three cops for "swerving" or "not signaling for a lane change" or for having "worn tires" or even for "possibly illegal tint" on a vehicle with no tint at all. This, of course, resulted in significant frustration for me, as it resulted in a waste of time not only during the stop, but later when I had to take time off to go to the Courthouse to pay bail to schedule my trial, then take time off and attend the trial, whereupon, charges were summarily dropped when the ticketing cop wouldn't show up in Court.

Now, again. I'm willing to believe that these cops are the exception, but only in the sense that the length they went to isn't typical.

Good post. Lot of thought and time went into it. I appreciate that. My original answer was geared towards the average getbig converstation. So you are correct to point out the "anti cop" term as unfair. I can't argue that. But while I think we can all agree to dislike abusive cops. I believe there are categories of people and their opinions of cops. Haven't thought much about it so it's likely not all inclusive.

1.  there are those who believe cops can do no wrong, if a cop did it, he must have a reason. These can be as damaging as the other extreme
2. those who think cops for the most part are decent people trying to do a difficult job. Small percentage are the problem
3. Those who think most cops are power hungry bullies that ocassionally do good things

I'm in cat #2. I think many of the posters here are in #3

Your example sadly, isn't hard to believe. It is difficult for me to grasp a department that has the luxury of having several officers tied up and unavailable to take calls for that length of time without a Sergeant getting pissed but they obviously don't run from call to call like we do here.
Sorry you had that experience. If you are ever in Austin I promise to be professional when issuing you a speeding ticket and it will be for at least 15 over unless it's a school zone.     

Skip8282

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #2055 on: April 28, 2015, 02:51:49 PM »
In this case, majority of this board are anti cop and since "Cops beating ____" fits their preconceived view of cops they don't bother to review it and operate on the assumptions its true. It really doesn't matter if it's true or not and they figure their buddies on the page won't bother to look at it either so its a safe assumption. Just my 2 cents



Or...it's like any other article on here where the poster just posted what the media decided the title to be.  Interesting how now the video is conclusive given that you cops are always crying the video doesn't show the full story.

Double standard much?

Always so desperate to play the victim card.  ::)


illuminati

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #2056 on: April 28, 2015, 02:52:51 PM »
2 very Good posts above. Avxo & agnostic.

Still leaves the issue as how & what to do with
The scumbag cops & those that lie & cover for them.

Abuse of position by those Should be Punished Hard.
And Exposed.
Then Hopefully Those Types Will Not be Drawn to The Job.


Skip8282

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #2057 on: April 28, 2015, 02:57:32 PM »
I am happy to report that I've never had a disagreeable experience with the police. I suspect the bulk of the police are good people who just want to protect and serve.

A handful should never have become policemen. Extensive psychological testing use to weed most of these misfits out. Are police forces so understaffed that they are willing to accept anyone who walks in the door looking for a job?



Do you think that's really it?

I would agree it's a small percentage that are highly abusive, but there's clearly more that are just abusive to varying degrees.

And it's not just the cops, it's the system.

We repeatedly see them let off as though they are above the law.  We repeatedly see light and minor punishments.  We repeatedly see absurdly high barriers to holding them accountable.

We didn't see any riots when the video came out of cop shooting a guy in the back.  There, they got the investigation done just as timely as they would a civilian, appropriate charges were made (which if I were a betting man he'll probably beat anyway), and the cops were clear and transparent.

In Baltimore, they have still yet to explain what happened.  And we see things handled like they are being handled in Baltimore far more often than the SC shooting.


illuminati

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #2058 on: April 28, 2015, 03:05:29 PM »


Do you think that's really it?

I would agree it's a small percentage that are highly abusive, but there's clearly more that are just abusive to varying degrees.

And it's not just the cops, it's the system.

We repeatedly see them let off as though they are above the law.  We repeatedly see light and minor punishments.  We repeatedly see absurdly high barriers to holding them accountable.

We didn't see any riots when the video came out of cop shooting a guy in the back.  There, they got the investigation done just as timely as they would a civilian, appropriate charges were made (which if I were a betting man he'll probably beat anyway), and the cops were clear and transparent.

In Baltimore, they have still yet to explain what happened.  And we see things handled like they are being handled in Baltimore far more often than the SC shooting.
















Another Good post.

You sum it up exactly with the
Repeatedly being let off or ridiculous minor punishment.
They are not above the law.
Yet often seen to be.
That's not the way to garner public support & confidence in policing.

Clear, honest & transparent it should be.

Smoke & mirrors, fudged excuses & whitewashing is what it usually is.

Agnostic007

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #2059 on: April 28, 2015, 03:12:21 PM »


Or...it's like any other article on here where the poster just posted what the media decided the title to be.  Interesting how now the video is conclusive given that you cops are always crying the video doesn't show the full story.

Double standard much?

Always so desperate to play the victim card.  ::)



Let me try and connect the dots with your post... The video was posted with the title in place. It was talked about as if the title was accurate. Leads me to believe no one actually watched it.

What video is now conclusive? Is there additional video? My comment on the video is that it doesn't show a beat down. He may have gotten beaten before or after that particular video but the title indicates  or implies it shows a beating. So ironically the video may NOT show the whole story.     

Agnostic007

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #2060 on: April 28, 2015, 03:15:03 PM »
2 very Good posts above. Avxo & agnostic.

Still leaves the issue as how & what to do with
The scumbag cops & those that lie & cover for them.

Abuse of position by those Should be Punished Hard.
And Exposed.
Then Hopefully Those Types Will Not be Drawn to The Job.



agree

Agnostic007

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #2061 on: April 28, 2015, 03:18:35 PM »













Another Good post.

You sum it up exactly with the
Repeatedly being let off or ridiculous minor punishment.
They are not above the law.
Yet often seen to be.
That's not the way to garner public support & confidence in policing.

Clear, honest & transparent it should be.

Smoke & mirrors, fudged excuses & whitewashing is what it usually is.

and...we're back  :)

illuminati

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #2062 on: April 28, 2015, 03:24:53 PM »
and...we're back  :)













Yes..... Meaning.???

You work in policing
How about You Coming out with some Strong Wise words
Of How you think these issues could be resolved.

Or why the continual covering up & minor punishments
Are given out.

Do you not think it should be clear, honest & transparent then.

Skip8282

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #2063 on: April 28, 2015, 03:47:07 PM »
Let me try and connect the dots with your post... The video was posted with the title in place. It was talked about as if the title was accurate. Leads me to believe no one actually watched it.

What video is now conclusive? Is there additional video? My comment on the video is that it doesn't show a beat down. He may have gotten beaten before or after that particular video but the title indicates  or implies it shows a beating. So ironically the video may NOT show the whole story.     


If true, I stand corrected, but this sure sounds as though you are attempting to make the video out to be conclusive:


can't tell much from the video. Certainly can't conclude a beating was being done.  But really, all someone has to do these days is put a title "Cops beat ____" and 90% of the folks here will operate on the assumption the cops beat ____ rather than look at the video independently and determine if it's true for themselves.

Skip8282

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #2064 on: April 28, 2015, 03:49:49 PM »












Yes..... Meaning.???






Meaning he's in total denial about systemic abuse.

Just some factual history, he's actually tried to compare the Blue Wall with the lochness monster.  He claims that cops can honestly and objectively investigate themselves and that they are held accountable.

He's a walking, talking Blue Wall and in complete denial.


illuminati

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #2065 on: April 28, 2015, 04:14:31 PM »


Meaning he's in total denial about systemic abuse.

Just some factual history, he's actually tried to compare the Blue Wall with the lochness monster.  He claims that cops can honestly and objectively investigate themselves and that they are held accountable.

He's a walking, talking Blue Wall and in complete denial.
















You could be right.
At times he comes across as reasonable & decent cop.
Which I hope he is.
Though it is concerning just how quick he changes.
Then is he doing this at work while on Shift.

Then he is quick to throw out the Cop Haters & Authority Issues' .
Yet he picks & choses what he wishes to answer & avoid.
That's his right of course.

I'm Yet to see him Strongly condemn the Blatant Abuses by cops
And Cover ups by Police Departments.
Or offer any Real Ideas To these Problems.

Oh yes of course Police investigating Police.
Very Clear, Honest & Transparent.

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #2066 on: April 28, 2015, 06:24:04 PM »
Good post. Lot of thought and time went into it. I appreciate that. My original answer was geared towards the average getbig converstation. So you are correct to point out the "anti cop" term as unfair. I can't argue that. But while I think we can all agree to dislike abusive cops. I believe there are categories of people and their opinions of cops. Haven't thought much about it so it's likely not all inclusive.

1.  there are those who believe cops can do no wrong, if a cop did it, he must have a reason. These can be as damaging as the other extreme
2. those who think cops for the most part are decent people trying to do a difficult job. Small percentage are the problem
3. Those who think most cops are power hungry bullies that ocassionally do good things

I'm in cat #2. I think many of the posters here are in #3

Your example sadly, isn't hard to believe. It is difficult for me to grasp a department that has the luxury of having several officers tied up and unavailable to take calls for that length of time without a Sergeant getting pissed but they obviously don't run from call to call like we do here.
Sorry you had that experience. If you are ever in Austin I promise to be professional when issuing you a speeding ticket and it will be for at least 15 over unless it's a school zone.     


I think several people don't necessarily fall into these 3 categories, as in, they're not so much about percentages ("few good ones, many bad ones" and vice versa) but rather they are angered by the lack of accountability, punishment and reciprocity in some cases. If the cops who abuse their authority get exposed somehow (if they don't try to cover up their tracks), they know that quite often their buddies or other cops will investigate them ("investigation" having quite a fluid definition in some cases) and perhaps cover up for them in sick display of camaraderie (along with unions, protective associations, etc) and also they know they will not be treated the same as the rest of the citizens.
This sick situation where cops see that in several cases they can abuse their power with impunity, just ferments a toxic culture that makes it easier for officers to commit abuses (this especially applies not to the "bad apples", who would probably be abusive anyway, but to those who would be decent at their job but then enter into a downward spiral of abuse if they see they can get away with it).

Agnostic007

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #2067 on: April 28, 2015, 08:47:23 PM »












Yes..... Meaning.???

You work in policing
How about You Coming out with some Strong Wise words
Of How you think these issues could be resolved.

Or why the continual covering up & minor punishments
Are given out.

Do you not think it should be clear, honest & transparent then.



Issue resolving-  Officers found to be using excessive force are either re-trained if minor and due to training, or fired if overtly excessive, charged if applicable

Officers found to be falsifying a report, clear indication of deception - fired, charged if applicable

nvestigators suspected of ommiting evidence or facts on a police investigation - Fired charged if applicible

Any officer witnessing a policy violation involving use of force and not writing a supplement that is factual, or sees a serious policy violation and is found to have not alerted a supervisor is fired. Supervisor doesn't pass allegation up channel is fired.

Educate public on processes of investigations. Many would be shocked there is a back log in many departments of over 200 days on some forensic evidence.

Create and educate a civilian monitor committee that oversees Internal Affairs complaints from citizens.

Executive staff makes clear the expectations and holds everyone accountable for honesty.

Training Academy and FTO are indoctrinated in the new standards and expectations and preach it constantly.

In car cameras and body mikes for anyone working the street with a clear policy that failing to turn them on, or turning them off during a contact is grounds for firing.

THEN... start charging citizens with a crime when they are found to have lied about an allegation towards a police officer. It has to be clear evidence caught on video or audio that they lied.

Educate the public that inspite of what the youtube lawyers say, you don't have a right to physically resist arrest even if you don't agree.

That's a start 

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #2068 on: April 28, 2015, 09:44:17 PM »
Officers Who Used Taser 8 Times on Disabled Woman Get Prison

FLORENCE, S.C. — Apr 27, 2015, 5:59 PM ET
By JEFFREY COLLINS Associated Press

Two former small town police officers in South Carolina were sentenced to prison time Monday for unnecessarily shocking a mentally disabled woman with a Taser at least eight times.

Franklin Brown, 35, was sentenced to 18 months in prison and his fellow Marion police officer Eric Walters, 39, was sentenced to a year and a day. Brown's sentence was longer because he shocked 40-year-old Melissa Davis while she was already handcuffed in April 2013.

When fellow officers asked Brown why he shocked the handcuffed woman, he replied he "did not want to touch that nasty (obscenity)," according to the plea agreement Brown signed last October.

The sentences were at the low end of the federal guidelines for the case, but federal judge Bryan Harwell said it was important to send a message that police officers are not above the law, especially when they do something like this.

"This one incident can cause the public to lose respect and overshadow the good work, the hard work, done by thousands of officers every day," Harwell said.

Monday's sentencing came just over three weeks after a North Charleston police officer was charged with murder in the shooting of an unarmed motorist and on the same day as protests in Baltimore — some of them violent — over the death of a man who suffered a severe spinal injury in police custody.

Davis sat in the courtroom, far from Brown and Walters. When Walters told the judge he was sorry for what he did for her, Davis began sobbing and her family took her out of the courtroom. Her sister said the woman who had never been in trouble in her life has nightmares, can't even see a police officer without getting scared and is reminded what happened that night every time she looks in the mirror and sees a scar on her forehead.

"Whenever Melissa hears a siren, she tenses up," said her sister Loretta Baldwin, who has sued the officers and the city of Marion, asking for a minimum of nearly $2 million.

Davis, who had lived in the city of 7,000 most of her life, was walking from one house to another around 1:30 one night in April 2013 when Walters stopped her. Walters has never made it clear what happened, but he ended up shooting her with his Taser, then following up with four more shocks after demanding she put her hands behind her back but giving her no time to respond, according to his plea agreement.

When Brown arrived as backup, Davis was in handcuffs and Walters was removing the Taser probes from her back. Brown said it appeared one of Davis' hands had slipped from her improperly applied handcuffs and he ordered everyone to move away and shocked Davis again, even though she was not trying to fight or escape, according to his plea agreement.

Brown shocked Davis twice more, then offered to let her go if he could shoot her in the forehead one more time with his Taser, prosecutors said.

Brown said little in court. He took off his glasses and stared ahead when Davis' sister spoke. The judge agreed to let him graduate from technical school before he reports to prison for 18 months.

Walters apologized to Davis, his family and the city of Marion. He said he has no job and had to tell his children, once so proud their dad was a police officer, that he did a bad thing and has to go to jail.

"That's not me. That wasn't me. I made one mistake. Now I am going to pay the ultimate price," Walters said.

Walters' lawyer has asked for six months in prison and six months of home confinement because he has already had several heart attacks. The sentence for both Walters and Brown were well under the 10-year maximum for the deprivation of rights under color of law charge each pleaded guilty to in October.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/prosecutors-prison-officers-taser-case-30608287

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #2069 on: April 28, 2015, 10:08:04 PM »
I think several people don't necessarily fall into these 3 categories, as in, they're not so much about percentages ("few good ones, many bad ones" and vice versa) but rather they are angered by the lack of accountability, punishment and reciprocity in some cases. If the cops who abuse their authority get exposed somehow (if they don't try to cover up their tracks), they know that quite often their buddies or other cops will investigate them ("investigation" having quite a fluid definition in some cases) and perhaps cover up for them in sick display of camaraderie (along with unions, protective associations, etc) and also they know they will not be treated the same as the rest of the citizens.
This sick situation where cops see that in several cases they can abuse their power with impunity, just ferments a toxic culture that makes it easier for officers to commit abuses (this especially applies not to the "bad apples", who would probably be abusive anyway, but to those who would be decent at their job but then enter into a downward spiral of abuse if they see they can get away with it).

I'm angered at some of the cases as well. overall, good post

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #2070 on: April 28, 2015, 10:12:09 PM »

If true, I stand corrected, but this sure sounds as though you are attempting to make the video out to be conclusive:



what I mean was this- That particular video that made up the clip posted did not show a beating was taken place. You could hardly tell what was going on, but based on the label, it implied there was a beating taking place there. People appeared to accept it was a video showing a beating. Had they watched it as I did, they would have seen the video did not show a beating. A beating may have taken place, but the video didn't show it.   

Agnostic007

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #2071 on: April 28, 2015, 10:13:54 PM »













You could be right.
At times he comes across as reasonable & decent cop.
Which I hope he is.
Though it is concerning just how quick he changes.
Then is he doing this at work while on Shift.

Then he is quick to throw out the Cop Haters & Authority Issues' .
Yet he picks & choses what he wishes to answer & avoid.
That's his right of course.

I'm Yet to see him Strongly condemn the Blatant Abuses by cops
And Cover ups by Police Departments.
Or offer any Real Ideas To these Problems.

Oh yes of course Police investigating Police.
Very Clear, Honest & Transparent.

Can you give an example of "how quick he changes"?

You probably arent looking very hard if you have yet to see me strongly condemn blatant abuse by cops

Agnostic007

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #2072 on: April 28, 2015, 10:19:45 PM »


Meaning he's in total denial about systemic abuse. Absolutley I am
Just some factual history, he's actually tried to compare the Blue Wall with the lochness monster.  He claims that cops can honestly and objectively investigate themselves and that they are held accountable. I usually speak based on my experience and my department. The rest is my opinion based on my belief the majority of cops are in this for the right reasons and want to do a good job. Also information available through friends and aquantances at other departments. I'm aware there are issues, there are some bad apples and there are likely some smaller departments that in the the 1960's when it comes to policing, but I don't believe it is a systemic, out of control problem. I think we differ on the extent.   He's a walking, talking Blue Wall and in complete denial. Then you are an anti cop radical blinded by your hatred...

Primemuscle

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #2073 on: April 28, 2015, 10:34:33 PM »
I think several people don't necessarily fall into these 3 categories, as in, they're not so much about percentages ("few good ones, many bad ones" and vice versa) but rather they are angered by the lack of accountability, punishment and reciprocity in some cases. If the cops who abuse their authority get exposed somehow (if they don't try to cover up their tracks), they know that quite often their buddies or other cops will investigate them ("investigation" having quite a fluid definition in some cases) and perhaps cover up for them in sick display of camaraderie (along with unions, protective associations, etc) and also they know they will not be treated the same as the rest of the citizens.
This sick situation where cops see that in several cases they can abuse their power with impunity, just ferments a toxic culture that makes it easier for officers to commit abuses (this especially applies not to the "bad apples", who would probably be abusive anyway, but to those who would be decent at their job but then enter into a downward spiral of abuse if they see they can get away with it).

As the saying goes "Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely."

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Re: Police State - Official Thread
« Reply #2074 on: April 28, 2015, 11:17:44 PM »

Commission approves policy for Los Angeles police body cameras


Source: Yahoo! News / Reuters

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - The Los Angeles Police Commission approved a policy on Tuesday clearing the way for the widespread use of body cameras by patrol officers in the second-largest U.S. city, as tensions rise in the United States over police use-of-force incidents.

Mayor Eric Garcetti said in December the city would equip 7,000 Los Angeles Police Department officers with the devices over the next two years to capture their day-to-day interactions with civilians.

The commission's 3-1 vote on rules governing the use of the devices brings Los Angeles closer to becoming the largest U.S. city to put body cameras into widespread use. New York, Chicago and Washington are conducting pilot programs to test the cameras and evaluate their worth.

Officials are also testing the use of body cameras by officers in Baltimore, which on Monday saw riots following several days of protests over the death of a black man who suffered a fatal spine injury while in police custody.


Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/commission-approves-policy-los-angeles-police-body-cameras-221327121.html