Police State - Official Thread

[Agnostic007]

  Wow Agnostic  you finally seem to be accepting that
There are Very Bad Apples in the Police Pot. 

Pls, what is the total number of U.S. Police officers.
Just to see how many cops that 5% would be.

Sadly it appears the number is Greater than 5%,
With the amount of reports let alone the number
Of incidents that go unreported.
Also with so many cops being complicit or turning a blind eye
To what goes on.
👍

it could just be that you are reading my posts all the way through.. I've never maintained there were no bad apples. We hire from the human race. Our disagreement has always been and likely always will be to what extent do they exist

[Agnostic007]

So really, we just need 60% of the cops we have?

nah, the other 35 still function and perform the job.. just not all that stellar.

[Las Vegas]

can you be more specific?

Are you including all of them that have failed to report things they should have?

[Agnostic007]

Are you including all of them that have failed to report things they should have?

well, lets see. We are required to report ANY violation of policy as well as any criminal act. That would include not using a blinker, to not having shoes shined. Officers generally don't report that, but at my department, medium to major policy violations get reported, and criminal acts would be reported 99% of the time. I can't speak for every department. We have a rule of firing officers for lying, and firing officers who knew about something and didn't report it.   

[illuminati]

it could just be that you are reading my posts all the way through.. I've never maintained there were no bad apples. We hire from the human race. Our disagreement has always been and likely always will be to what extent do they exist

No disagreement with the Fact they do exist.

How many & what percentage that is...
I asked how many cops there are....
and what 5% would be of that number.

We are getting somewhere as admitting there is a problem
big or small is Getting somewhere and A Step Towards dealing With it.

[240 is Back]

Ag007, what's your take on stop & frisk?

Does it work?  Does it violate the shit out of people's rights?

[illuminati]

well, lets see. We are required to report ANY violation of policy as well as any criminal act. That would include not using a blinker, to not having shoes shined. Officers generally don't report that, but at my department, medium to major policy violations get reported, and criminal acts would be reported 99% of the time. I can't speak for every department. We have a rule of firing officers for lying, and firing officers who knew about something and didn't report it.   

That's very good to read.
clearly a more enlightened & thinking
police department.

Great get rid of the Scumbags.
Can we extend this to politicians & other Scumbags Abusing there positions.

[Agnostic007]

That's very good to read.
clearly a more enlightened & thinking
police department.

Great get rid of the Scumbags.
Can we extend this to politicians & other Scumbags Abusing there positions.

Sadly, citizens will and have re-elected politicians convicted of crimes. We rarely vote out our problems because we don't put a lot of effort into vetting our politicians. We simply insure they have an "R" or "D" after their names

[Agnostic007]

Ag007, what's your take on stop & frisk?

Does it work?  Does it violate the shit out of people's rights?

I think it's a good rule. I also think it can and has been abused. How it is supposed to work is I get dispatched to a call of a suspicious person lurking around vehicles at 3am in a neighborhood, pulling on door handles. The description is a white male, knit cap and backpack. I drive to the location and see someone fitting that description walking down the street. I have a reasonable suspicion that he may likely be the culprit and so I detain him to determine if he is the one. Because I am alone, at night I want to make sure before we get into conversation, that he is not carrying a readily accessible weapon so I am allowed to frisk "outside of garments" him for obvious weapons. I am not allowed to go into pockets nor the backpack unless there was information from a witness that he was seen placing a weapon in the backpack. I'm not looking for stolen items, just weapons. I think it's a reasonable accommodation to make considering the places and people we often deal with in our occupation.

It does not allow an officer to arbitrarily stop a person for a fishing expedition. I can engage anyone in conversation at any time, but they are free to leave and I have no authority to frisk them. I must be based on reasonable suspicion and I reasonably suspect they may be armed. 

[240 is Back]

It does not allow an officer to arbitrarily stop a person for a fishing expedition.

Are you 100% sure police ONLY use stop and frisk when searching for a particular suspect that they have an APB on, when they find a visual match?

LOL!  my belief is that police use it as they want, when they see someone they deem shady.

[Agnostic007]

Are you 100% sure police ONLY use stop and frisk when searching for a particular suspect that they have an APB on, when they find a visual match?

LOL!  my belief is that police use it as they want, when they see someone they deem shady.

That was an example.. you can also use it when not dispatched.. another example.. 4am, subject dressed all in black, back pack, flash light, and there have been car burglaries in the area; you're driving down the road and passing a corner known for drug trafficking and you see what appears to be a "hand off" or money/drug exchange. basically when you can articulate you have reasonable suspicion you can initiate a Terry stop.

You wouldn't be wrong in assuming it has been misused. It goes back to the Corruption of the Noble Cause thing, where police want to catch the bad guys, society wants them to catch the bad guys and keep their community safe etc etc.. so some police will "bend" the rules because they mistakenly believe the ends justifies the means and abuse the system. Their intentions may be good, but they are not looking at the big picture. It is more important to maintain integrity then it is to catch that car burglar that night. Or that drug dealer that night.

There is a dilemma that is discussed on occasion. It normally uses an extreme to demonstrate the issue. I've heard it used with a hostage situation, or a terrorist situation. Would you as a citizen, want the police to violate the suspects rights, if you knew the suspect knew the location of a child buried alive with limited oxygen left. Would you okay the use of any means necessary to get that information?  What if it were your child?  So many people would say that in that case... with a life on the line, it is more important to get the information than to worry about the suspects rights. And that is how corruption of the noble cause starts in officers... just at a much lesser intensity.             

[Las Vegas]

well, lets see. We are required to report ANY violation of policy as well as any criminal act. That would include not using a blinker, to not having shoes shined. Officers generally don't report that, but at my department, medium to major policy violations get reported, and criminal acts would be reported 99% of the time. I can't speak for every department. We have a rule of firing officers for lying, and firing officers who knew about something and didn't report it.   

In your own estimation,  is what I mean by that.

[Las Vegas]

I understand you don't have a way to know or to honestly estimate that, so just asking is all.

[Agnostic007]

I understand you don't have a way to know or to honestly estimate that, so just asking is all.

cool..

[Las Vegas]

cool..

  just curious about how you arrived at those numbers...

[illuminati]

Ok. as Agnostic wont give the figures i asked for.
From the figures i have found the number of US police
varies in estimates from around 900,000 to 1,200,000.

Lets say 1,000,000 cops
using agnostics estimation of 5%
& say 10% max.
5% = 50,000
10% = 100,000 cops

if anywhere between them 2 figures is remotely correct
That's one Huge problem.
No wonder Politicians & police are constantly down playing
this situation.

Armed & working together, covering for each other
While Hiding behind the Shield of The Law.

Explains all the constant reports coming in.
there's a good sized army of the scumbag fcukers.

[Las Vegas]

Ok. as Agnostic wont give the figures i asked for.
From the figures i have found the number of US police
varies in estimates from around 900,000 to 1,200,000.

Lets say 1,000,000 cops
using agnostics estimation of 5%
& say 10% max.
5% = 50,000
10% = 100,000 cops

if anywhere between them 2 figures is remotely correct
That's one Huge problem.
No wonder Politicians & police are constantly down playing
this situation.

Armed & working together, covering for each other
While Hiding behind the Shield of The Law.

Explains all the constant reports coming in.
there's a good sized army of the scumbag fcukers.

Very interesting point, I.  Those are state and local, too.. not include feds.

[240 is Back]

A quick google search of "stop and frisk abuse" shows cops admitting they're searching people "just for being a fcking mutt"
and PLENTY of other abuses.

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1ZMDB_enUS510US528&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=stop%20and%20frisk%20abuse%20video

Video there, so it's not like we can just shrug it off.  Some cops abuse the shit out of 'stop and frisk'.   it's a shit rule.  if I'm not breaking any law, the cop can watch me all he wants, but do NOT violate my rights to walk down the street.   Making up "cause you're a mutt" should put that cop out of a job, and I bet it didn't. 

[Skeletor]

Citation Nation: Cop Writes Man a Ticket for Broken Windshield as He’s Getting it Fixed

Denver, CO – Nick Berlin was recently pulled over by police and ticketed for having a broken window, This was in spite of the fact that he was in the parking lot of an auto-glass workshop and had an appointment to get the window fixed at the same moment he was getting the ticket.

Berlin, who was the victim of vandalism just a day before, had quickly made an appointment to get his window fixed after someone threw a rock at it and cracked it.

The whole staff was waiting in the parking lot to fix his car when they saw the officer writing him a ticket, and the officer apparently did not want to hear any excuses.

“I got a ticket for something that I was close as I could be to resolving,” Nick Berlin said. “I don’t know if he’s a no-nonsense kind of cop, it was definitely a bummer,” he added.

Local news team ABC13 was able to confirm his story by pulling up the records from the auto glass shop and comparing those records with the time and date found on the ticket. They discovered that as Berlin explained to the officer, he had made the appointment moments before and was on his way to get the problem fixed.

Shop owner David Sprague and his crew were astonished by the actions of this overzealous officer and said that there was no reason to pull Berlin over in the first place.

“We were just standing here in our door and were ready for his appointment and all of the sudden we see a cop out there writing the guy a ticket, We were pretty astounded to think that was what happened,” Sprague said.

“He had plenty of visibility on the driver side,” he added.

While the Sheriff’s Department has refused to comment on the issue, the American Civil Liberties Union of Colorado pointed out that this is an illustration of how police are more concerned with enforcing codes and writing tickets than actually protecting people.

“The more and more police officers see their role as ticketing as opposed to protecting public safety, that has a tendency to erode the public trust,” Denise Maes of the ACLU said.

Shop owner David Sprague has offered to cover Berlin’s $46 fine if he is not able to beat it in court.

[Las Vegas]

That's why auto-glass companies have a van.  You shouldn't drive with a windshield that's threatening to shatter, because any bump can cause it to do that in an instant.

The guy probably couldn't afford to do anything other than what he did, though.  The officer should have acted like a human being with a heart, but let's not pretend we're surprised that he didn't.

[Skeletor]

Federal Prosecutors Fight Back After Judge Orders Motorist Be Returned $167K Seized


http://dailysignal.com/2015/08/21/federal-prosecutors-fight-back-after-judge-orders-motorist-be-returned-167k-seized/

[Agnostic007]

A quick google search of "stop and frisk abuse" shows cops admitting they're searching people "just for being a fcking mutt"
and PLENTY of other abuses.

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1ZMDB_enUS510US528&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=stop%20and%20frisk%20abuse%20video

Video there, so it's not like we can just shrug it off.  Some cops abuse the shit out of 'stop and frisk'.   it's a shit rule.  if I'm not breaking any law, the cop can watch me all he wants, but do NOT violate my rights to walk down the street.   Making up "cause you're a mutt" should put that cop out of a job, and I bet it didn't. 

We generally don't create rules based on isolated incidents. Otherwise we wouldn't allow semi automatic weapons. We understand police need to investigate suspicious activity and should be able to do it under relatively safe conditions. So I still think it is a good sound rule. 

[240 is Back]

We generally don't create rules based on isolated incidents. Otherwise we wouldn't allow semi automatic weapons. We understand police need to investigate suspicious activity and should be able to do it under relatively safe conditions. So I still think it is a good sound rule. 

Consistently, 80 to 90% of those grabbed in stop-and-frisks are innocent.

http://www.nyclu.org/content/stop-and-frisk-data

So 80 to 90% of the time, people's rights are violated.   Great rate.

[Agnostic007]

Misconceptions of stop-and-frisk may cripple successful crime fighting strategies: NYPD Commissioner Ray Kelly
New York's top cop says critics and political opportunists are blind to the fact that the NYPD's crimefighting practices have drastically cut crime in the last decade.
BY RAYMOND KELLY  NEW YORK DAILY NEWS Tuesday, July 2, 2013, 9:49 PM A A A
NYC PAPERS OUT. Social media use restricted to low res file max 184 x 128 pixels and 72 dpi
TODD MAISEL/NEW YORK DAILY NEWS
Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly defended law enforcement tactics, citing cuts in crime since Mayor Bloomberg took office in 2002.
The common law practice of police stopping to make inquiry of individuals behaving suspiciously is as old as policing itself. But the misconceptions about it are relatively new. For one thing, the New York City Police Department did not suddenly engage in such stops on a massive scale. Rather, we’ve become more careful about recording each one in detail as required by a law that went into effect only in 2002.

Even then, the department wasn’t immediately up to speed in capturing all such stops, hampered by an entirely manual system that was eventually automated. Last year, with the number of stops recorded at over 500,000, that total still translated to less than one stop a week per officer.

That shouldn’t be surprising, considering New York City has a population of 8.4 million people and its 35,000 police officers last year had 23 million contacts with members of the public, ranging from giving directions to making arrests. Some other additional context is relevant:

The NYPD responded to 4.8 million calls for service last year.

We recorded 503,646 total crime complaints, and made arrests or issued summonses 873,529 times.

Here are some more numbers to consider: A decade before Mayor Bloomberg, there were over 12,000 murders in New York City; and about 5,000 in the decade after he took office. The 7,346 fewer murders that resulted saved, if history is a guide, the lives of young men of color.

There’s another misconception about “stop-and-frisk.” About half the time, the stops of suspicious individuals involve no frisk at all, and only 9% involve searches.

In each of the city’s 76 police precincts, the race of those stopped highly correlates to descriptions provided by victims or witnesses, regardless of the population demography for that precinct. For example, in the 68th Precinct in Brooklyn, 53.4% of the violent crime suspects were white, and whites constituted 61% of the persons stopped. Similarly, in the 75th Precinct, also in Brooklyn, 78% of the violent suspects were black and 75% of those stopped were black. There are some anomalies, of course, like Greenwich Village’s 6th Precinct, where much of the crime is committed by transients and not the resident population.

Another misconception is perpetuated by critics who know better: That is that blacks are stopped at rates higher than their population as measured by the U.S. Census.

In other words, because blacks represent 23.4% of the city’s population, they should represent no more than 23.4% of those stopped by police. That’s like saying police should stop males no more than 50% of the time because they represent half of the population, when in fact men are responsible for about 90% of violent crime, and police stops reflect that.

But our critics never talk about gender bias, only alleged racial bias.

Our critics are also blind to the fact that last year, 96.3% of the shooting victims in New York City were black or Hispanic, as were 97.1% of their assailants, and that the Police Department is engaged in lifesaving in the city’s poorest neighborhoods, not racial profiling.

Critics also perpetuate the myth that stops have been ineffectual in deterring crime because a relatively small percentage lead to arrests or summons, and “only” 8,000 weapons annually are taken from persons stopped. They portray all other persons as “completely innocent.”

While innocent persons who match a suspect’s description are sometimes stopped, and suspicious behavior may have a completely innocent explanation, police officers have also prevented untold numbers of burglaries, strong-arm robberies and sexual assaults by stopping individuals casing bodegas late at night, waiting for a senior citizen to withdraw cash from an ATM machine, or quietly following a woman for blocks.

What’s not surprising, regrettably, is that successful police tactics would become a political football as a hotly contested election approaches, or that the usual suspects would use race-baiting for political gain.

What concerns responsible citizens is that the nation’s most successful crime-fighting practices and strategies will be abandoned by a successor administration that has neither the spine nor the wisdom to carry on.

[Skeletor]

Does anyone remember this horrible case?

No Justice for Indian Grandfather Left Paralyzed by Alabama Cop — Mistrial Declared

Huntsville, AL – After a jury failed to reach a decision in the federal trial of an Alabama police officer, which left an Indian grandfather partially paralyzed, the judge declared a mistrial in the case.

The surprising announcement by U.S. District Court Judge Madeline Haikala came after jurors told the judge on four separate occasions that they were unable come to a unanimous decision.

Officer Eric Parker is accused of using excessive force while violating the civil rights of a man from India. Parker was caught on video violently slamming 58-year-old, Sureshbhai Patel to the ground in early February 2015. This left Patel with severe injuries, including partial paralysis.

Patel, who was in the U.S. visiting relatives, was approached by officer Eric Parker as he was taking a morning walk. The incident began after a paranoid neighbor reported a “suspicious” thin black man walking through the neighborhood.

Parker was subsequently arrested for assault after the brutal encounter with Patel, which was caught on dash camera. When the incident became public, it sparked international outrage. The Indian man had only recently come to the United States to assist in caring for his grandson, and spoke no English. The condemnation went so far as to force Alabama Gov. Robert Bentley (R) to  formally apologized to the Indian government.

A grand jury indicted Parker in March on one count of felony use of unreasonable force.

During the trial, the defense attempted to portray Parker as a scared officer simply reacting to the actions of Patel, claiming that the officer escalated his use of force commensurate to the victim.

“This was an escalated police action based on what Mr. Patel did,” Robert Tuten, Parker’s attorney, said during closing arguments.

Parker incredulously claimed that he simply lost his balance as he took the grandfather to the ground, which he did because he feared for his safety as Patel reached into his pockets and pulled away from him.

According to the Washington Post:

    Patel testified through a translator during the trial, telling jurors that he recognized men wearing police uniforms shouting from behind him but he couldn’t understand their commands, WHNT reported. “No English, no English,” Patel said to them, he testified. He also testified that he didn’t resist.

    Closing arguments came Wednesday and jurors first informed the judge Thursday that they were deadlocked. The judge urged the jury to come to an unanimous decision Friday after they had sent her three notes declaring that they reached an impasse, AL.com reported.

The failure of the jury to decide that Parker’s actions were criminal shows a level of indoctrination into a level of authoritarian control that baffles the mind.

The video clearly shows this cop approach a man who speaks no English and escalate the situation into a violent encounter that left a man partially paralyzed.

“The government will retry the case,” the U.S. attorney’s office in the Northern District of Alabama said in a statement. “We look forward to having another jury hear the evidence.”

The idea that this behavior was anything less than criminal shows either an extreme ignorance of what conduct is legally acceptable for a cop, or a blatant disregard for Patel’s civil rights, most likely for having a darker complexion in Alabama. Hopefully, the next jury holds Parker accountable for his thuggish behavior captured in this brutal video.

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/justice-indian-grandfather-left-paralyzed-alabama-cops-mistrial-declared/