Author Topic: Top two Olympia in review and what's to come  (Read 5838 times)

Wiggs

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Top two Olympia in review and what's to come
« on: December 25, 2012, 02:10:34 AM »
 8)
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Wiggs

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Re: Top two Olympia in review and what's to come
« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2012, 02:31:57 AM »
Well now have Phil and Kai for a while. I believe that next year will be Kai's "Ronnie Year" and he will beat Phil but I also think Phil will win it back.  Kai's made so many improvements and it's really good to see his hard work paying off. Assuming he can replicate or even improve his conditioning, which I believe he can with Farrah, He needs to "improve" some minor details that will make a huge difference, traps, delts and upper chest. His traps have been a common subject of conversation here. While his delts are decent, I'd say they are his weakest bodypart. overall his chest is really good but lacks the fullness in the upper chest onstage, on show day. If he fixes these, he's Mr. Olympia. He's the best poser, he's aesthetic, he's wide 'cough-cough, he's muscular, he's proportioned. The only problem with Phil at this point is his lack of width. Everything else is perfect for him. His lack of width throws his physique off of being the best ever. There's nothing he can do about it that he hasn't already tried. I feel that any changes he makes at this point outside of taking conditioning to an even higher level will be counterproductive.  It will be fun watching these two battle it out over the next several years.

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WOOO

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Re: Top two Olympia in review and what's to come
« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2012, 02:31:59 AM »
Both are insane. The power of drugs and volume training.

Wiggs

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Re: Top two Olympia in review and what's to come
« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2012, 02:47:30 AM »
Kai was known for having an unorthodox frame. Very short torso and long legs and arms. He's made subtle changes to certain poses that has hidden his flaws. Notice in the front double bicep pose, his hips shift one way while the torso the other, also, how he twists his leg. It makes the pose look very "artsy" while hiding flaws. Flex Wheeler was very good at this despite having very few flaws. I remember reading an article I believe it was from the 98 Arnold when Nasser called Flex an illusion. He was half right. Bodybuilding is also about subtly hiding your flaws and bringing the best package. This lost art will prove to be very important again. Also, I believe with the physiques changing again, well look back in 10 years and say 2012 was the year when bodybuilding begin the go the right way again. In that you'll see people who would have never competed, compete and help the sport rivaling the gold age of the 90s.
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Wiggs

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Re: Top two Olympia in review and what's to come
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2012, 03:04:59 AM »
Futures-

Lyonel Beyeke - all the way big dude. with very inconsistent conditioning. He has thick skin. don't know how he will play out.

Cederic McMillian - At 6'1 and a perfect frame. the only thing we're waiting for with McMillian is conditioning. If he can take his conditioning to Kai and Phil level and top out at around 280 lbs shredded, there's no reason he can't break Haney's record. Time is not on his side. He's in his early 30s.

Shawn Rhoden - Great shape and size but I've never been a fan. His physqiue while pretty is not nearly as complete as Flex Wheelers and I don't like the comparisons. Shawn is an older guy also, time isn't on his side.

Jason Huh-*Crickets

Evan Centopani- His chest sucks, it's plain and simple as that. He's a hard worker, a family man now, big dude, granite conditioning when on, but for a guy his size, he's not that wide and his back could be alot better.

Steve Kucklo- Well see.
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Tito24

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Re: Top two Olympia in review and what's to come
« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2012, 03:05:02 AM »
phil is too small to be taken serious

Wiggs

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Re: Top two Olympia in review and what's to come
« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2012, 03:08:28 AM »
phil is too small to be taken serious

lol, Phil is not small bro. He's narrow and looks bunched up in certain poses but he's certainly not small.
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Tito24

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Re: Top two Olympia in review and what's to come
« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2012, 03:13:29 AM »
not to normal people standards but imo a bodybuilding top contender should be disgustingly huge and phil still fits in the jackets of figure competitors. that is quite sad.
maybe hes not a big believer in delt and back training

Wiggs

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Re: Top two Olympia in review and what's to come
« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2012, 03:17:01 AM »
not to normal people standards but imo a bodybuilding top contender should be disgustingly huge and phil still fits in the jackets of figure competitors. that is quite sad.
maybe hes not a big believer in delt and back training

Maybe Phil is a modern day Frank Zane.
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Parker

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Re: Top two Olympia in review and what's to come
« Reply #9 on: December 25, 2012, 03:18:09 AM »
Kai was known for having an unorthodox frame. Very short torso and long legs and arms. He's made subtle changes to certain poses that has hidden his flaws. Notice in the front double bicep pose, his hips shift one way while the torso the other, also, how he twists his leg. It makes the pose look very "artsy" while hiding flaws. Flex Wheeler was very good at this despite having very few flaws. I remember reading an article I believe it was from the 98 Arnold when Nasser called Flex an illusion. He was half right. Bodybuilding is also about subtly hiding your flaws and bringing the best package. This lost art will prove to be very important again. Also, I believe with the physiques changing again, well look back in 10 years and say 2012 was the year when bodybuilding begin the go the right way again. In that you'll see people who would have never competed, compete and help the sport rivaling the gold age of the 90s.
I was thinking about doing a "Letter to Phil" type thread back a month ago, but I decided not to. I think Kai pushed him, and I think Phil may have come to realize, that this will not be easy, and that he has to put in some serious work, and he can't take anything for granted. I think that Phil will come in and win convincingly, he may even blow people's minds...and possibly even changed people's perception of him--back to a positive view of  him. Although, I do think it would be good if Kai won it, as he is now "the people's champ".

Wiggs

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Re: Top two Olympia in review and what's to come
« Reply #10 on: December 25, 2012, 03:51:36 AM »
I was thinking about doing a "Letter to Phil" type thread back a month ago, but I decided not to. I think Kai pushed him, and I think Phil may have come to realize, that this will not be easy, and that he has to put in some serious work, and he can't take anything for granted. I think that Phil will come in and win convincingly, he may even blow people's minds...and possibly even changed people's perception of him--back to a positive view of  him. Although, I do think it would be good if Kai won it, as he is now "the people's champ".

The aura and in my opinion the reality of the story of these two is picture perfect.

One guy is perceived as having the good life.

Phil Heath, light skin, light eyes, handsome, pretty physique, from Colorado, plays the piano, played basketball in college, vouched for by Mr. O Jay Cutler, sprints through NPC undefeated, Tore through the IFBB, magazine covers, sponsorships, the dream IFBB career.

The other guy is perceived as having had and certainly has it very rough throughout life.

Kai Green, dark skin, dark eyes, "the hair", scarred face and head, not looked at as traditionally handsome, ruggedly artistic physique, from New York, is an artist, all he knows is bodybuilding, no father, no mother, group homes, ghettos and grapefruits, fought for everything he has, worked through the ranks of team universe to earn his pro card. Not to many magazine covers, not looked at being traditionally "marketable."

It doesn't get much more contrasting than this. Each will push each other into unseen levels of physique art. Because both are equally motivated. Like I said, I don't see what else Phil can do outside of conditioning and maybe a little more fullness. Kai has more room to work with and his muscle has a mature look to it where Phil's still has a balloonish, cartoonish look. In the end, I believe history will say Kai was a better bodybuilder assuming neither has career ending injuries or "injuries." They key is that they pushed each other.
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TrueBB93

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Re: Top two Olympia in review and what's to come
« Reply #11 on: December 25, 2012, 04:02:13 AM »
the IFBB is nothing but a waste of time. the IFBB judges dont care whos the best, its all about picking the "right guy". Levrone, Ray, flex, Nassar, Platz and many many others have been screwed, robbed and basically told, no matter how Big, Ripped or aesthetic your physique is you wont win.

There are amateurs from the Middle East and Eastern Europe that DESTROY 80% of the IFBB.

that being said, Kai should win 2013 olympia if he does what he needs to do, but the key word is should they will never give it to him.  they will give it to Phil or Jay. Phil to continue his olympia "streak" or a comeback from Cutler.

Wiggs

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Re: Top two Olympia in review and what's to come
« Reply #12 on: December 25, 2012, 04:05:45 AM »
the IFBB is nothing but a waste of time. the IFBB judges dont care whos the best, its all about picking the "right guy". Levrone, Ray, flex, Nassar, Platz and many many others have been screwed, robbed and basically told, no matter how Big, Ripped or aesthetic your physique is you wont win.

There are amateurs from the Middle East and Eastern Europe that DESTROY 80% of the IFBB.

that being said, Kai should win 2013 olympia if he does what he needs to do, but the key word is should. But they will give it to Phil or Jay. Phil to continue his olympia "streak" or a comeback from Cutler.

I can't disagree with you man. It's fucked up but I can't let it ruin bodybuilding for me. bodybuilding is bigger than the IFBB.
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TrueBB93

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Re: Top two Olympia in review and what's to come
« Reply #13 on: December 25, 2012, 04:08:07 AM »
I can't disagree with you man. It's fucked up but I can't let it ruin bodybuilding for me. bodybuilding is bigger than the IFBB.

truth.  :)

Wiggs

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Re: Top two Olympia in review and what's to come
« Reply #14 on: December 25, 2012, 04:15:32 AM »
You don't think they'll ever give it to him?  I think they will. You can screw people over when it's somewhat close but when someone is just so dominating, you can't fuck them without the fans turning against the organization. I think he'll eventually get at least 2. It depends on how fast McMillan comes up. He has the ability to ruin Kai's and Phil's dreams. He bigger, wider, better shape and taller. Don't know Cedric's work ethic though.
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ether

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Re: Top two Olympia in review and what's to come
« Reply #15 on: December 25, 2012, 04:19:56 AM »
Futures-

Evan Centopani- His chest sucks, it's plain and simple as that. He's a hard worker, a family man now, big dude, granite conditioning when on, but for a guy his size, he's not that wide and his back could be alot better.


Will never amount to anything.

Hates competing, SUUUPER LAZY!

Sitting out of the Arnold? Probably won't even compete in the O

usmcdevildoc

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Re: Top two Olympia in review and what's to come
« Reply #16 on: December 25, 2012, 04:56:58 AM »
Hany Rambod's Lyonel Beyeke.  Go Hany!!!!
 

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Re: Top two Olympia in review and what's to come
« Reply #17 on: December 25, 2012, 05:12:11 AM »
the bigger issue to me is how they age and how their receptors hold up... if they need to overdo it like ronnie/jay/dorian just to stay the same or worse....

Tito24

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Re: Top two Olympia in review and what's to come
« Reply #18 on: December 25, 2012, 05:23:45 AM »

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Re: Top two Olympia in review and what's to come
« Reply #19 on: December 25, 2012, 05:36:07 AM »
Quote
He has thick skin.
Roughly translated as "He cant diet"

OTHstrong

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Re: Top two Olympia in review and what's to come
« Reply #20 on: December 25, 2012, 05:46:18 AM »
Futures-

Lyonel Beyeke - all the way big dude. with very inconsistent conditioning. He has thick skin. don't know how he will play out.

Cederic McMillian - At 6'1 and a perfect frame. the only thing we're waiting for with McMillian is conditioning. If he can take his conditioning to Kai and Phil level and top out at around 280 lbs shredded, there's no reason he can't break Haney's record. Time is not on his side. He's in his early 30s.


Shawn Rhoden - Great shape and size but I've never been a fan. His physqiue while pretty is not nearly as complete as Flex Wheelers and I don't like the comparisons. Shawn is an older guy also, time isn't on his side.

Jason Huh-*Crickets

Evan Centopani- His chest sucks, it's plain and simple as that. He's a hard worker, a family man now, big dude, granite conditioning when on, but for a guy his size, he's not that wide and his back could be alot better.

Steve Kucklo- Well see.
neither have proven themselves, the hype is not deserved, Lionel will never be top 6- NEVER, don't even want to talk about him, he will be just another nobody like Jones

 Cedric will be eventually top six, maybe top 3 but not in 2013, funny how you say 6'1 and a perfect frame, in bodybuilding 6'1 and a perfect frame is an oxy-moron also you say all we are waiting for is conditioning, NO he is going no where if he does not put on another 15 lb. To slender for his frame at the Olympia.

Good call on even, Steve - we will see, true, can ruin his physique if he tries to rush things.

Jayson HUH, this is my dark horse for a break through year in 2013 IMO.

OTHstrong

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Re: Top two Olympia in review and what's to come
« Reply #21 on: December 25, 2012, 05:55:31 AM »
the IFBB is nothing but a waste of time. the IFBB judges dont care whos the best, its all about picking the "right guy". Levrone, Ray, flex, Nassar, Platz and many many others have been screwed, robbed and basically told, no matter how Big, Ripped or aesthetic your physique is you wont win.

There are amateurs from the Middle East and Eastern Europe that DESTROY 80% of the IFBB.

that being said, Kai should win 2013 olympia if he does what he needs to do, but the key word is should they will never give it to him.  they will give it to Phil or Jay. Phil to continue his olympia "streak" or a comeback from Cutler.
None of them should have beat yates, maybe only Nasser in 97 but even then he had a shitty back for his frame and that is hard to ignore. The IFBB does not always make the right decision but they are pretty good 90% of the time.

As for 2012 Olympia I had Kai winning but we are splitting hairs here so Phil winning is not a bad decision, also Kai blew it coming in a bit flat at night, didn't knock out the champ, every other place was right where it should have been except Wolf should have been ahead of Branch, actually Branch should not have made even top 8.

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Re: Top two Olympia in review and what's to come
« Reply #22 on: December 25, 2012, 06:49:17 AM »
If Kai developed any semblance of traps, he'd reign supreme as long as his kidneys hold out.
Y

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Re: Top two Olympia in review and what's to come
« Reply #23 on: December 25, 2012, 06:52:22 AM »
Well now have Phil and Kai for a while. I believe that next year will be Kai's "Ronnie Year" and he will beat Phil but I also think Phil will win it back.  Kai's made so many improvements and it's really good to see his hard work paying off. Assuming he can replicate or even improve his conditioning, which I believe he can with Farrah, He needs to "improve" some minor details that will make a huge difference, traps, delts and upper chest. His traps have been a common subject of conversation here. While his delts are decent, I'd say they are his weakest bodypart. overall his chest is really good but lacks the fullness in the upper chest onstage, on show day. If he fixes these, he's Mr. Olympia. He's the best poser, he's aesthetic, he's wide 'cough-cough, he's muscular, he's proportioned. The only problem with Phil at this point is his lack of width. Everything else is perfect for him. His lack of width throws his physique off of being the best ever. There's nothing he can do about it that he hasn't already tried. I feel that any changes he makes at this point outside of taking conditioning to an even higher level will be counterproductive.  It will be fun watching these two battle it out over the next several years.



If you think any top pro is really improving anything other than overall size or conditioning then you know nothing about bodybuilding. Completely clueless. He could try going to Mexico inject that goo but that's about it. BFG claimed Kai ws injecting a bunch of balonie peptides into his traps... what were the results? Jack and shit.

Kai wont have any "Ronnie year", he already had that. He will not put on any more size under Farah. He is maxed. Maybe he has a few ounces more to grow but what would that take? 3 grams of test per day, 20 Anadrol a day, 80iu of GH and 500iu insulin a day? :D He can only play with conditioning now.

Anyone know what Kai weighed at the Olympia and what his highest stage weight has been in his career?

OTHstrong

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Re: Top two Olympia in review and what's to come
« Reply #24 on: December 25, 2012, 06:59:38 AM »
If you think any top pro is really improving anything other than overall size or conditioning then you know nothing about bodybuilding. Completely clueless. He could try going to Mexico inject that goo but that's about it. BFG claimed Kai ws injecting a bunch of balonie peptides into his traps... what were the results? Jack and shit.

Kai wont have any "Ronnie year", he already had that. He will not put on any more size under Farah. He is maxed. Maybe he has a few ounces more to grow but what would that take? 3 grams of test per day and 500iu insulin a day? He can only play with conditioning now.

Anyone know what Kai weighed at the Olympia and what his highest stage weight has been in his career?
Good post^^^

He can get away with another 5 lb IMO, but both Phil and Kai did not nail their conditiong 100%, there is room for improvement. Phil was better in 2011 condition wise, the added fullness was at the expense of his lines. Now Kai can get the added fullness without sacrificing anything as he has the bigger frame. We are talking only 5 lb on Kai but that could make the difference. As for his traps, sorry Van B is right they ain't growing, if they come in bigger you know what he did.