Could Jay Cutler have beat Dorian Yates?

[Palpatine Q]

Iv'e also seen Dorian in person and people just don't get it. The man looks like he is made of fookin plutonium, he is so dense

[Supersoaker]

I love how hard you guys fight over this issue. You are both(ND and Hulkster) so passionate about the issue. I think it's funny this thread dissolved into a pissing contest between you both, with the same pictures being posted over and over. It's still entertaining nonetheless.

Yates had Cutler and Coleman in the density/shredded department I think most would agree.
Coleman and maybe Cutler had him in the mass department, even though they look like water buffalos imo.

It's been pointed out before that Yates defeated Coleman 5 times, and the response is always, "Coleman hadn't peaked yet blah blah blah." Well I could point out that If Yates has continued to improve, he would have matched the mass off Cutler and Coleman. He was taller than the both of them so it's not unreasonable to think this.

Bottom line....The judging criteria in the 90s was not the same as the judging criteria today. Today mass reigns supreme. People build their bodies to fit whatever the ideal is in the judges minds and this changes.

[healthiswealth]

I love how hard you guys fight over this issue. You are both(ND and Hulkster) so passionate about the issue. I think it's funny this thread dissolved into a pissing contest between you both, with the same pictures being posted over and over. It's still entertaining nonetheless.

Yates had Cutler and Coleman in the density/shredded department I think most would agree.
Coleman and maybe Cutler had him in the mass department, even though they look like water buffalos imo.

It's been pointed out before that Yates defeated Coleman 5 times, and the response is always, "Coleman hadn't peaked yet blah blah blah." Well I could point out that If Yates has continued to improve, he would have matched the mass off Cutler and Coleman. He was taller than the both of them so it's not unreasonable to think this.

Bottom line....The judging criteria in the 90s was not the same as the judging criteria today. Today mass reigns supreme. People build their bodies to fit whatever the ideal is in the judges minds and this changes.

That is actually a very good reason as to why Coleman did not beat him. Even Bob Chicherillo beat him at some point. So to say that development and muscular maturity has nothing to do with this is flat out stupid.

[bic_staedtler]

If you're really asking if Cutler could beat Dorian when Cutler is ON, then no, in my opinion.

But if you're asking if Dorian could beat Cutler if Dorian was OFF, then yes, Dorian would beat him.

Applying some logic to my previous statements (both of whcih say the same thing) one could deduce this hypothesis:

Yes, Dorian could beat Cutler, off.

Further modified;

Dorian could beat Cutler off.

Further modified;

WHO GIVES A SHIT!...Dorian was a friggin Mr Olympia!!!!...and until Jay wins it, you can't compare them. 

That is all.

[freeagain]

this pic has halleluja resurfaced... where we can see dorian against coleman and another bodybuilder.....

look at dorians earth shatterin density, grainyness and mind bogglin hardness!! 

as i keep sayin he made all other bodybuilders look like condoms full of shit... and coleman is no exception.

colemans conditionin and density just cant match dorian's ... and coleman's condition looked way better when he competed at a lighter weight many moons ago.

all that coleman has got is size n shape with some excellent seperation in his delts especially... but dorian looks like he is constructed from almost metalic concrete  and has superb size ... dorian is the one grabbin all the attention always.

look at how a conditioned smaller atlete like cutler picked apart ronnie in 2001... could you just imagine a dorian goin up against ronnie year in year out... both at their peaks... dorian's sheer awe inspirin density takes coleman apart.

this pic is totally unreal......

[Jean Paul Gaultier]

this pic is totally unreal......

YEP, RONNIE LOOKS FUKKIN AMAZING AS ALWAYS.

[healthiswealth]

this pic has halleluja resurfaced... where we can see dorian against coleman and another bodybuilder.....

look at dorians earth shatterin density, grainyness and mind bogglin hardness!! 

as i keep sayin he made all other bodybuilders look like condoms full of shit... and coleman is no exception.

colemans conditionin and density just cant match dorian's ... and coleman's condition looked way better when he competed at a lighter weight many moons ago.

all that coleman has got is size n shape with some excellent seperation in his delts especially... but dorian looks like he is constructed from almost metalic concrete  and has superb size ... dorian is the one grabbin all the attention always.

look at how a conditioned smaller atlete like cutler picked apart ronnie in 2001... could you just imagine a dorian goin up against ronnie year in year out... both at their peaks... dorian's sheer awe inspirin density takes coleman apart.

this pic is totally unreal......

If you are going to smootch on Dorian's ass, at least do it right.

Because you know, what better way to highlight Dorian's glory than to show him flexing his biceps.

[dodster]

cutler kills dorian in every pose.

[phyxsius]

Dorian only beat Jay in back lat spread and calves..

while Jay beat Dorian in arms, chest, shoulders, legs and hamstrings..

[Jean Paul Gaultier]

cutler kills dorian in every pose.

EXACTLY.

[Zugzwang]

many other past bbers still looks good from healthy eating, steady lifting, and probably HRT treatment. Dorian looks like he eats chips all day. Lee Haney looks like he trains 5 day a week still.

You what? Every time I see a modern picture of Haney in some asskissing piece in FLEX he looks like any old normal guy in the street.

The problem with these current pictures of ex Mr Os is that they really help to underline and enforce the public's perception that all that really matters are steroids. Yates claims he still lifts, and if so, that makes it even worse.

My take on the thread is that 1993 Yates would place #3 behind Coleman and Cutler at the 2005 Mr O, because while he has it, size is all that matters now and he doesn't have enough to beat Jay or, of course, Ronnie.

[Oliver Klaushof]

I agree. Size is king now in bodybuilding. IMO the 90s yielded the most impressive physiques.

[JDK]

OMG Dorian doesnīt weigh 270 at 3% anymore. So what??? He weighs maybe 210-220 at 10% now and is healthy. You dumbminded Dorian bashers will never get such a condition in your entire life and you blame him putting bodybuilding in a bad light?! Morons!

[freeagain]

You what? Every time I see a modern picture of Haney in some asskissing piece in FLEX he looks like any old normal guy in the street.

The problem with these current pictures of ex Mr Os is that they really help to underline and enforce the public's perception that all that really matters are steroids. Yates claims he still lifts, and if so, that makes it even worse.

My take on the thread is that 1993 Yates would place #3 behind Coleman and Cutler at the 2005 Mr O, because while he has it, size is all that matters now and he doesn't have enough to beat Jay or, of course, Ronnie.

hey guess what , you unrealistic piece of s'hit , you....

... since carl lewis retired he hasnt been able to get anywhere near the 10 second 100 metres! 

martina navratilova wouldnt even qualify for a glandslam since she retired ........

how many rounds of boxin dya think marvin hagler would last since he took off his gloves for the last time/

you look at these people now , you wouldnt ever imagined they were top athletes! they must have been on drugs ,lmfaoo. 

[JDK]

THANK YOU FREEAGAIN!!

[Zugzwang]

martina navratilova wouldnt even qualify for a glandslam since she retired ........

Navratilova has played in several grand slams this year and has come out of retirement on several occasions.

That aside, there is an enormous difference between an athlete retiring due to age, and a pro bodybuilder like, say, Dorian (and I have enormous respect for the man) who, not even ten years on, doesn't look anything like a bodybuilder any more. Neither does Haney.

Evidently, you missed my point; that to the public, this reinforces the 'steroids is all' attitude.

Martina Navratilova is still in unbelievable shape; I suggest you pick up a newspaper from time to time.

Please learn to read - and more importantly, write (unless you're twelve or thirteen, in which case I apologise, but do try harder in school) - before attempting to critique my posts again. Cheers.

[Bear]

Dorian who? Dorian Yates you know the guy who beat Coleman 5 times 

This back shot is much better than Colemans , because of the much better balance , the much better muscle proportion , much better calves , smaller glutes and he has the same detail & width 

Denied! Where's the width in that shot?!?! Great back, but that pose doesn't favour him. His calves overshadow his lats for christ's sake. That's not good balance. Arms look better than usual there though, and his delts are big rocks of awesomeness. That photo session yeided some insane pics!!!!!

[JDK]

Zugzwang,
How do you know Dorian doesnīt look like a bodybuilder anymore? Have you seen him with his shirt off recently? No you have not. Dorian still trains with weights. His bodyfat is still low regarding normal standards (letīs say 10%). Even if he weighs just 200 pounds at that condition, donīt you see that this is an extraordinary accomplishment, assuming he is all natural now?
And HELLO, NEWS FOR YOU: GOING FROM 200 AT LOW BODYFAT TO 270 AT VERY LOW BODYFAT IS ALL ABOUT THE DRUGS (combined with proper training and nutrition of course)!!!
So the public is damn fu**ing right if they think itīs all about the drugs (although they underestimate the training/Nutrition part)!!

[Zugzwang]

Zugzwang,
How do you know Dorian doesnīt look like a bodybuilder anymore? Have you seen him with his shirt off recently? No you have not. Dorian still trains with weights. His bodyfat is still low regarding normal standards (letīs say 10%). Even if he weighs just 200 pounds at that condition, donīt you see that this is an extraordinary accomplishment, assuming he is all natural now?

If that's true, then great. I have enormous respect for Dorian and hope he does still look good and work out. John Hotten said as much in Muscle - that Yates still is imposing - but he doesn't appear that way at the various expo pictures floating around the 'Net.

I fully appreciate that DY doesn't have anything to prove to me or anyone else out there (or here), but, again, my comment was general and in relation to the stigma attached to BB in the external world.

And HELLO, NEWS FOR YOU: GOING FROM 200 AT LOW BODYFAT TO 270 AT VERY LOW BODYFAT IS ALL ABOUT THE DRUGS (combined with proper training and nutrition of course)!!!
So the public is damn fu**ing right if they think itīs all about the drugs (although they underestimate the training/Nutrition part)!!

Er... that would be my point. 

[JDK]

But why do you care about how the "public" perceives bodybuilding? It is totally irrelevant. Bodybuilding the way you and I want to see it will always be a medical experiment. I mean you can not tell me that even a guy like Darrem Charles is not juiced to the top of his head to present himself onstage as he does.
Bodybuilding will never be mainstream ever!! And if itīs just for the reason that building muscles for their own sake is considered a very narcistic, egoistic and haretic thing in our christian society.

[Zugzwang]

But why do you care about how the "public" perceives bodybuilding? It is totally irrelevant.

I don't care; it was a throwaway observation.

[Dr. Xavier]

Jays definitely beat Dorian in the leg department. The reason Dorian's calves look big is b/c he lacks any real thigh sweep. That's why Dorian's thighs always looked narrow from the front and back. Jay always had great thigh development. It looks like he also is starting to have the hamstring development as well.

Add Jay's improved calf development (especially the outer gastroc), and Jay has the more complete leg. 

[nicorulez]

ND, why do you go on about how great Dorian was. He lacked one arm, and his quad sweep wasn't that great. Moreover, he was the original "Gut" Mr. Olympia. Forget Ronnie, Dorian was the first. Moreover, you go on in one prior thread about how Samir was the best Mr. O ever. Why the f__k do you give a rats ass about Dorian. His biceps, even the good one, sucked. His most muscular blows. Ronnie, damn the gut, is narrower at the hips and this is very evident when they turn around. Ronnie has better arms, lats, traps, chest, thighs, and their shoulders are equal. The only reason Dorian appears to have rounder shoulders is because his arms suck. Ronnie has that amazing bicep peak. Now granted, Dorian in 1993 was the bomb....however, you are talking about his alltime best shape. Compare that to Ronnie circa 2003 and it is no contest. Ronnie to this day was the biggest, most sick individual to ever get onto a posing dais that day. He was unreal. Granted, Dorian's conditioning in 1993 would probably have beaten the Ronnie that showed up in 2004. However, this year and 2003, Ronnie would have whooped his arse. BTW, Jay has Dorian beaten in shape. However, I like Doz's graininess and back better. Compared to an on Ron, the battle is for second. Again ND, if you are such a fan of aesthetics and pleasing physiques, why the love for Dorian and not other mass monsters. 

[Hulkster]

ND, why do you go on about how great Dorian was. He lacked one arm, and his quad sweep wasn't that great. Moreover, he was the original "Gut" Mr. Olympia. Forget Ronnie, Dorian was the first. Moreover, you go on in one prior thread about how Samir was the best Mr. O ever. Why the f__k do you give a rats ass about Dorian. His biceps, even the good one, sucked. His most muscular blows. Ronnie, damn the gut, is narrower at the hips and this is very evident when they turn around. Ronnie has better arms, lats, traps, chest, thighs, and their shoulders are equal. The only reason Dorian appears to have rounder shoulders is because his arms suck. Ronnie has that amazing bicep peak. Now granted, Dorian in 1993 was the bomb....however, you are talking about his alltime best shape. Compare that to Ronnie circa 2003 and it is no contest. Ronnie to this day was the biggest, most sick individual to ever get onto a posing dais that day. He was unreal. Granted, Dorian's conditioning in 1993 would probably have beaten the Ronnie that showed up in 2004. However, this year and 2003, Ronnie would have whooped his arse. BTW, Jay has Dorian beaten in shape. However, I like Doz's graininess and back better. Compared to an on Ron, the battle is for second. Again ND, if you are such a fan of aesthetics and pleasing physiques, why the love for Dorian and not other mass monsters. 

you can go on and on about how the pre-gut Ronnie would destroy Dorian, back it up with pics, break it down bodypart by bodypart, and show how Ronnie has a far superior taper.  This can all be clearly illistrated with comparison pics of the wasp-waisted pregut Ronnie vs. Dorian at his wide-waist 1993 best.

But it won't do any good.

People love to discredit Ronnie any chance they get.

[Smokey MacPot]

Culter would kill Dorian in a competiton today, both being in their primes and at top condition. Culter probably does higher quality and more steriods in general than Dorian did. Culter also probably does more HGH and insulin as well. The only reason Culter would win today is drugs. However based on natural ability, I would still say Culter is better than Dorian on everything accept the back.