Author Topic: Lower corporate taxes won't create more jobs  (Read 771 times)

blacken700

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Lower corporate taxes won't create more jobs
« on: April 14, 2011, 07:54:31 AM »
There's a battle brewing on Capitol Hill over whether or not to lower the corporate tax rate for U.S. companies. History shows that lower taxes do little to help most Americans.
FORTUNE -- In a budget plan called The Path to Prosperity: Restoring America's Promise, Rep. Paul Ryan of Wisconsin earlier this week laid out proposals to slash government spending on everything from health care for the poor to retirement cushions for the elderly. It's easy to see why the Republican congressman is being praised -- if not for being big on details, then at least for being bold. America's massive debt has reached unnerving levels. And at a time when parts of Europe struggle to avoid bankruptcy, the tone on Capitol Hill has quickly switched from a call for stimulus to a battle cry for austerity.

But who will actually prosper under Ryan's plan?

One of his key proposals is to lower the income tax rate paid by corporations, from 35% to 25%, by eliminating several tax loopholes and deductions. Simplifying the tax code would certainly remove a lot of uncertainties from today's highly complex tax system. Executives have often complained that one of the reasons they've been holding off on new investments and more hiring is the unpredictable tax environment. But how will lowering the tax burden for companies that are already flushed with record levels of cash really going to make the average American better off?

Compared with other advanced economies, companies doing business in the U.S. already pay low taxes. It's true that at 35% the corporate tax rate is technically higher than most major economies. But because of loopholes and other deductions, most companies pay significantly less – so the effective rate (or the percentage of corporate profits that is paid in federal corporate taxes) is about 13% to 15%, which is relatively low even by international standards.

General Electric (GE) has been the latest poster child of this phenomenon. Although it says it will have a small tax liability for 2010, the tax burden is tiny considering it made a profit in the U.S. last year of $5.1 billion, thanks to deductions, adjustments, offshore profit centers, and a 1,000-person tax team. However legal this might be, there's something unsettling about it all, especially at a time when millions of Americans are out of work and our state and federal governments wrangle over budget cuts that include slicing funding for everything from education to public safety.

Where's the benefit?

Ryan's plan to eliminate loopholes (although the plan doesn't specify which) is needed, but what will lowering the corporate tax do?

For one, it likely won't create much more investment or create many more jobs, says Robert Lynch, economics professor at Washington College, who has done extensive research into taxation and economic development. In a 2004 study, Lynch found that firms don't necessarily relocate or expand to an area more just because it has lower taxes. What's more, while a lower tax rate reduces costs for companies and creates some positive effects on local economies, it doesn't necessarily create substantial jobs. Just take a look at South Dakota, which currently has no corporate income tax and ranks first in the Tax Foundation's Business Climate index. Even its governor acknowledges that the sparsely-populated state has had a tough time attracting household names.

Lynch says the same holds true at the federal level. What worries the economist is that any cuts to corporate taxes would take funding away from other public services such as education, new roads and infrastructure projects that companies and the overall economy might gain more from.

"Companies aren't suffering from a lack of investment funds," Lynch says, pointing to record cash levels held by America's biggest companies. "What they're suffering from is lack of profitable investment opportunities."

Even as many non-financial companies sit on an estimated $2 trillion at a time when interest rates have remained at nearly 0%, executives still aren't hiring much. Indeed, much of that capital is sitting overseas and there's a coordinated push among some of America's biggest companies to bring those funds home at lower costs. Cisco (CSCO), Apple (AAPL), Duke Energy (DUK) and Pfizer (PFE) are leading an effort for a one-year tax holiday on foreign earnings that would allow companies to repatriate money at a much lower tax rate of about 5%.

But while the idea of bringing more capital into the domestic economy sounds like a good thing, it won't likely mean much for the average American. In 2004, Congress approved a one-year tax holiday as part of a jobs package, resulting in companies bringing back $362 billion. But, as Fortune's Tory Newmyer pointed out in February, studies have shown that most of the funds went to shareholders. Even while Congress passed several rules to make sure the funds would get invested back into the companies, not very much went to research, investment or hiring.

If the cost savings from lower taxes don't go to new investments or more jobs, could they at least lead to higher wages for workers, as Ryan's plan suggests?

If history tells us anything, that's unlikely. The effective corporate tax rate has been steadily declining for decades. Corporations paid more than 49% of their profits in federal taxes in the 1950s, 38% in the 1960s, 33% in the 1970s and 25% in the 1980s. All the while, U.S. wages have been stagnant for years even as productivity has risen. Between 1989 and 2010, U.S. productivity grew by 62.5% -- far outpacing wages, which grew by only 12% during the same period, according to a March 2011 study by the Economic Policy Institute.

So what will a lower corporate tax rate do?

Needless to say, there are more than a few bumps in Ryan's Path to Prosperity.

Also on Fortune.com:


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Re: Lower corporate taxes won't create more jobs
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2011, 07:56:06 AM »
FORTUNE usually bashes the shit out of obama and the dems.   so this is interesting from them.  I tend to agree - I can't see cutting corp taxes from 35 to 25% and raising the deficit that much.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Lower corporate taxes won't create more jobs
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2011, 07:58:08 AM »
FORTUNE usually bashes the shit out of obama and the dems.   so this is interesting from them.  I tend to agree - I can't see cutting corp taxes from 35 to 25% and raising the deficit that much.

Why not raise taxes to 50%?

blacken700

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Re: Lower corporate taxes won't create more jobs
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2011, 07:59:20 AM »
Why not raise taxes to 50%?

why not find obama's twin :D :D :D :D

loco

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Re: Lower corporate taxes won't create more jobs
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2011, 08:00:13 AM »
There's a battle brewing on Capitol Hill over whether or not to lower the corporate tax rate for U.S. companies. History shows that lower taxes do little to help most Americans.
FORTUNE -- In a budget plan called The Path to Prosperity: Restoring America's Promise, Rep. Paul Ryan of Wisconsin earlier this week laid out proposals to slash government spending on everything from health care for the poor to retirement cushions for the elderly. It's easy to see why the Republican congressman is being praised -- if not for being big on details, then at least for being bold. America's massive debt has reached unnerving levels. And at a time when parts of Europe struggle to avoid bankruptcy, the tone on Capitol Hill has quickly switched from a call for stimulus to a battle cry for austerity.


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blacken700

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Re: Lower corporate taxes won't create more jobs
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2011, 08:02:26 AM »

240 is Back

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Re: Lower corporate taxes won't create more jobs
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2011, 08:02:34 AM »
Why not raise taxes to 50%?

See, this is the problem.  IMO, we shouldn't change it.  Your response?  Why not double it?   I mean, really?  

Only in 1988 and 1989 (Ronald Reagan's final 13 months in office) was the TOP MARGINAL rate down to 28%. It was 69.13% when he went into office, and went from 69.13%-50% from 1981-1986, then 38.5%, then 28%.

Barack Obama has proposed a top marginal tax rate of 39.6%, which was the rate under Bill Clinton. So with the exception of 13 months of Reagan's time in office, Obama's rate is lower than Reagan's.

I'm FINE with keeping the corp tax rate the same until we stabilize shit.  

Soul Crusher

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Re: Lower corporate taxes won't create more jobs
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2011, 08:04:33 AM »
See, this is the problem.  IMO, we shouldn't change it.  Your response?  Why not double it?   I mean, really?  

Only in 1988 and 1989 (Ronald Reagan's final 13 months in office) was the TOP MARGINAL rate down to 28%. It was 69.13% when he went into office, and went from 69.13%-50% from 1981-1986, then 38.5%, then 28%.

Barack Obama has proposed a top marginal tax rate of 39.6%, which was the rate under Bill Clinton. So with the exception of 13 months of Reagan's time in office, Obama's rate is lower than Reagan's.

I'm FINE with keeping the corp tax rate the same until we stabilize shit.  


 ::)  ::)


Ever dawn on you that maybe our instabiliy is a resut of this ridiculous tax law to begin with?   

240 is Back

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Re: Lower corporate taxes won't create more jobs
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2011, 08:07:54 AM »
::)  ::)
Ever dawn on you that maybe our instabiliy is a resut of this ridiculous tax law to begin with?   

Um, our instability resulted in a huge crash in 2008.  Bush policy on taxes sure couldn't stop it. 


So while I don't agree with obama on raising it (and I'll concede keeping the bush tax cuts in place) - I sure as shit don't see any good coming from dropping it from 35% to 25%, as Ryan wants.  MFckers just getting greedy ;)

Soul Crusher

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Re: Lower corporate taxes won't create more jobs
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2011, 08:10:29 AM »
Um, our instability resulted in a huge crash in 2008.  Bush policy on taxes sure couldn't stop it. 


So while I don't agree with obama on raising it (and I'll concede keeping the bush tax cuts in place) - I sure as shit don't see any good coming from dropping it from 35% to 25%, as Ryan wants.  MFckers just getting greedy ;)

yeah - cause its great to encourage companies to offshore jobs and go to lower tax countries since ours is only the 2nd highest in he world as it is.    ::)  ::)

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Re: Lower corporate taxes won't create more jobs
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2011, 08:14:42 AM »
yeah - cause its great to encourage companies to offshore jobs and go to lower tax countries since ours is only the 2nd highest in he world as it is.    ::)  ::)

hey, i'm fine with keeping the bush cuts, although I think their benefits are exaggerated.

however - seeing as the majority of repubs won't endorse Paul Ryan's budget, I think we all know what the score is ;)

He's coddling up to millionaires for his own future political ambitions.  No way anyone with a brain will say "good call bro, let's drop corp taxes right now!"

Kazan

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Re: Lower corporate taxes won't create more jobs
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2011, 08:18:15 AM »
Um, our instability resulted in a huge crash in 2008.  Bush policy on taxes sure couldn't stop it. 


So while I don't agree with obama on raising it (and I'll concede keeping the bush tax cuts in place) - I sure as shit don't see any good coming from dropping it from 35% to 25%, as Ryan wants.  MFckers just getting greedy ;)

You seem to be under the impression that all the money belongs to the government and we are lucky we get to keep as much as we do ::) Always with the greedy class warfare bullshit, everyone else in the US has to live on what they make or they go bankrupt, but apparently the government doesn't have to play by the same rules as everyone else. This country had no federal income tax until 1913, the country managed to survive just fine during that time period. So after the "New Deal" and the "Great Society" and the government over stepping it constitutional authority, and spending way to much its all the corps fault ::). 98 Years since the 16th Amendment and look at what we have now.

So if you want to continue believing the corps are evil and the government is the answer, you are a lost cause.
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Soul Crusher

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Re: Lower corporate taxes won't create more jobs
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2011, 08:20:33 AM »
240 - I am a libertarian, but . . . . . ..

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Re: Lower corporate taxes won't create more jobs
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2011, 08:22:30 AM »
i know they're an integral part of things.

i'm just saying, we're running a huge deficit, and the world says we're at the edge of a collapse.  I don't think billionaires and millionaires and companies are going to use an extra 10% in income to hire people.  I think they'll do what they did with the stim dollars - hoard it, buy foreign currencies and precious metals ;)

why didn't the stim bill create all these new jobs?  Cause the corps took the $ overseas lol... maybe if the corp's promised to spend that new 10% on local jobs, i'd be fine with that.  

Kazan

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Re: Lower corporate taxes won't create more jobs
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2011, 08:28:57 AM »
i know they're an integral part of things.

i'm just saying, we're running a huge deficit, and the world says we're at the edge of a collapse.  I don't think billionaires and millionaires and companies are going to use an extra 10% in income to hire people.  I think they'll do what they did with the stim dollars - hoard it, buy foreign currencies and precious metals ;)

why didn't the stim bill create all these new jobs?  Cause the corps took the $ overseas lol... maybe if the corp's promised to spend that new 10% on local jobs, i'd be fine with that.  

And why are we running a huge deficit? I'll give you a hint, the fucking government spends to much! Corporations are in business to make money, that is what they do.
The politicians don't care about America, all they care about is how they can spend money on "entitlements". Get the people dependent on the government and secure a voting block to perpetuate your power, fucking pathetic
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dario73

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Re: Lower corporate taxes won't create more jobs
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2011, 08:34:02 AM »
And why are we running a huge deficit? I'll give you a hint, the fucking government spends to much! Corporations are in business to make money, that is what they do.

Yikes.  You injected logic into this stupid thread.

loco

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Re: Lower corporate taxes won't create more jobs
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2011, 08:36:04 AM »
cnn moron

How about a link, you lazy socialist?   :)

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Re: Lower corporate taxes won't create more jobs
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2011, 08:38:15 AM »
And why are we running a huge deficit? I'll give you a hint, the fucking government spends to much! Corporations are in business to make money, that is what they do.

if youve read my posts, you know that i support ending more UE payments, drug testing for welfare, etc.  I think if you leave taxes alone - and end entitlements like this - shit improves overnight.