Author Topic: The Empty Tomb  (Read 20564 times)

The Coach

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The Empty Tomb
« on: March 23, 2008, 10:27:27 AM »
Many of us who have visited Israel regard the visit to the "Garden Tomb" as one of the major highlights of the trip.  It invariably ranks highest on our feedback surveys. The people in charge of the British trust that manages the site always present it as simply "representative," rather than insisting that it is the actual tomb.  However, we feel they are understating the actual facts.  Even though I harbor a skeptical cynicism toward most "traditional" sites, for a number of reasons I personally regard this tomb as the actual one referred to in the Gospel accounts.

Notes From Leviticus

In my study I was digging through my library on the Book of Leviticus and, in particular, was digesting the commentary by Andrew Bonar (a classic that I particularly treasure regarding this particular book of the Torah). I was reviewing the many detailed specifications of the various categories of offerings - every one of which profiles or foreshadows the various aspects of Christ's person and work.  I was particularly intrigued with the following:

 And he shall kill it on the side of the altar northward before the LORD: and the priests, Aaron's sons, shall sprinkle his blood round about upon the altar.  - Leviticus 1:11

Like so many of the textual details, this one was also expressly fulfilled by the fact that the ultimate sacrifice to which it points was, indeed, offered on the north side of the city, just outside of what is now called the "Damascus Gate." However, a footnote also caught my eye that included some unusual details about Joseph of Arimathea, which proved strikingly instructive.

Joseph of Arimathea

Andrew Bonar's footnote noted:  "A rich man, one of the most honorable and esteemed in Jerusalem, a member of the Sanhedrin, and a disciple, unexpectedly appears at Calvary.  This was Joseph of Arimathea, without exception the most singularly noble character introduced to us in the Gospels.  This rich man had been driven into concealment by the plots formed against him by the Jews, on account of his defending Jesus in the Sanhedrin openly (Luke 23:51)." In the Gospel of John we find a subtle but significant mistranslation:

And after this Joseph of Arimathea, being a disciple of Jesus, but secretly for fear of the Jews... - John 19:38

"...being a disciple":  "kekrummenoV de dia ton fobon twn ioudaiwn" not [the adverb] "secretly," for it is not kekrummenwV but [the adjective] "secreted," or forced to hide, by reason of their plots.  This makes his appearance before Pilate even more unexpected.

An Unrecorded Conversation

I cannot resist including the unrecorded conversation that occurred between Joseph of Arimathea and Pontius Pilate, who was, of course, shocked by Joseph's request for the body in the passage above. Pilate responded: "Joseph, I don't understand.  You're the richest man in the region; you have made this brand new tomb for your family; and, you're going to give it to this criminal?"

"Oi Veh!  It's just for the weekend!"  Joseph responded.

 (I have this on good authority: from Chuck Smith of Calvary Chapel.)

Where was His Tomb?

Andrew Bonar points out that in Isaiah 53 we find some very significant prophetic details:

He made his grave with the wicked [plural], and with the rich [singular] in his death; -  Isaiah 53:9

I had always assumed that the "transgressors" in Isaiah 53:9 simply pointed to the two thieves who were crucified with Him.  It was Bonar's insight that this refers to the burial itself, which included both the wicked and the rich. Another of the Levitical specifications deals with the offering being "...without the camp unto a clean place ..." (Leviticus 4:12; 6:11). It was this detail that actually gave rise to the Andrew Bonar's footnote: 1

Now in the place where he was crucified there was a garden; and in the garden a new sepulchre, wherein was never man yet laid.  - John 19:41

The very spot that criminals were put to death was where Joseph's new tomb was hewn out of a rock!  The stony sides of the tomb - the new tomb - "the clean place," where Jesus was laid - were part of the malefactor's hill.  His dead body is "with the rich man and with the wicked" in the hour of His death!  His grave is the property of a rich man; and yet the rocks which form the partition between His tomb and that of the other Calvary malefactors, are themselves part of Golgotha."

Anyone who has visited the Garden Tomb recognizes the validity of Bonar's perceptions: the site of Golgotha is topologically identifiable as at the peak of the ridge system between the Kidron Valley and the Tyropean Valley; midway between the Mount of Olives and Mount Zion.  It is also a very short walk to the tomb, and the tomb itself seems to fit a number detailed specifications from the Gospel texts:

1. It is proximate to Golgotha (Jn 19:41).
2. It was a new tomb hewn in the rock (Mt 27:60; Lk 23:53; Jn   19:41). 
3. It was a garden area (Jn 20:41, 42).  The enclosed cistern of 250,000 gallons implying a single, very wealthy, owner.
4. It was adjacent to a wine press.
5. It had a rolling stone door (Mt 27:60; 28:2; Mk 16:3; Lk 24:2).
6. The tomb itself was just to right of a wailing chamber (Mk 16:5).
7. And, it is empty!  (Lk 24:6, 12; Jn 20).
8. Gordon's Calvary

The present site of the "Garden Tomb" is often called, derisively, "Gordon's Calvary."  It remains controversial despite the evidences that favor it.  General Charles George Gordon was a British general who distinguished himself with assignments in the Crimean War and other exploits in the Far East.  He was commissioned a second lieutenant in 1852, and eventually found himself assigned in Palestine.  One day from his hotel he noticed the features of a "Skull Hill" and became convinced, despite church traditions to the contrary, that this was the true location of the crucifixion.  His discovery was based on the physical features of the area, derisively called "Gordon's Calvary" by those who still favor the traditional site. 

(The "Church of the Holy Sepulchre" is on the traditional site at another location that was selected by Queen Helena in the fourth century and was protected until 1009 A.D., when it was destroyed by Khalif Hakem.  The Greek Orthodox Church and the Russians erected the present Church of the Holy Sepulchre in 1810, where it stands today.)

General Gordon's discovery of what we now know as the "Garden Tomb" was in 1883.  What struck me about Andrew Bonar's observations, from the text, was that his commentary was published in 1846, almost 40 years before the discovery of the present site that so vividly presents the drama that is the very cornerstone of the entire Christian faith!2  It is inspiring to realize that the clarity of the situation was perceived by Andrew Bonar strictly from the text itself, without the physical benefits which we can presently enjoy on our visits to Jerusalem!

What an encouragement to all of us to pay close attention to details and to take them seriously!  "Not one jot or tittle," indeed!3

*  *  *



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heathen

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Re: The Empty Tomb
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2008, 10:32:19 AM »
 ::)

bodybuilder1234

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Re: The Empty Tomb
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2008, 10:33:41 AM »
whats with the giant threads lately?  ???

Cliff notes would be nice

JediKnight

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Re: The Empty Tomb
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2008, 10:34:24 AM »
whats with the giant threads lately?  ???

Cliff notes would be nice


didn't you learn to read in school?

bodybuilder1234

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Re: The Empty Tomb
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2008, 10:45:47 AM »
didn't you learn to read in school?

Yes ofcourse I did....
Did you take special classes in taking it up the anus or did it come naturally to you?
LOL

Voice of Doom

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Re: The Empty Tomb
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2008, 11:38:34 AM »
So you're a conservative asshole AND a Christian?  In America??!!!

Who would've thought........... ::)

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Re: The Empty Tomb
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2008, 12:22:52 PM »
What dose this shit got to do with bodybuilding.This topic should be moved to another board.

The Coach

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Re: The Empty Tomb
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2008, 01:16:34 PM »
Hey "Doom" so I'm to assume your a liberal AND and atheist? Figures.

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Re: The Empty Tomb
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2008, 01:21:02 PM »
Hey "Doom" so I'm to assume your a liberal AND and atheist? Figures.

Are you saying liberalism and atheism go hand-in-hand?

I've wondered about this.  You've said in the past something about it being harder for libs to get into heaven, or something like that? 

it's a hard thing to defend, for either side.  Republicans like marriage, are against abortion, etc... which makes them closer to doing what's right.  On the other hand, Republicans also support the Bush Doctrine, which calls for pre-emptive strikes against any country we deem *might* be a threat.  In essence, it's "I will kill you because you MIGHT one day kill me".

I don't know that Jesus would have endorsed such a policy.  Where in the Bible does it say it's okay to kill a man because he *might* kill you someday?  Where does it say you can kill a man because of words he says? 

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Re: The Empty Tomb
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2008, 01:31:19 PM »
The Coach is a "christian" so he hopes people perceive him as a better person. The same can be said for the conservative political views, its all identity creation.

The Coach

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Re: The Empty Tomb
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2008, 01:42:05 PM »
No, what I said was, liberals can't be true Christians, since a lot of they're beliefs go aginst scripture. Obama and his Pastor are great example of that.

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Re: The Empty Tomb
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2008, 01:43:13 PM »
::)
bahahahahaha that was too perfect, especially coming from a guy named heathen hahahaha

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Re: The Empty Tomb
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2008, 01:49:40 PM »
No, what I said was, liberals can't be true Christians, since a lot of they're beliefs go aginst scripture. Obama and his Pastor are great example of that.

But conservatives who support preemptive war - killing those who have not harmed you - they are true Christians?

I'm not flaming here - I'm being serious. 

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Re: The Empty Tomb
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2008, 01:50:02 PM »
The Coach is a "christian" so he hopes people perceive him as a better person. The same can be said for the conservative political views, its all identity creation.


On balance Joe is a good guy, but the whole overdone "christian" thing doesn't make me think better of him.  Just the opposite in fact.
Ron: "I am lazy."

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Re: The Empty Tomb
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2008, 01:51:01 PM »
No, what I said was, liberals can't be true Christians, since a lot of they're beliefs go aginst scripture. Obama and his Pastor are great example of that.

Specifically what did Obama and his pastor do which goes against scripture?

Please list their deeds separately. 

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Re: The Empty Tomb
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2008, 01:52:23 PM »
"The Empty Brain"
HAHA, RON.....

Matt C

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Re: The Empty Tomb
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2008, 01:58:34 PM »
Many of us who have visited Israel regard the visit to the "Garden Tomb" as one of the major highlights of the trip.  It invariably ranks highest on our feedback surveys. The people in charge of the British trust that manages the site always present it as simply "representative," rather than insisting that it is the actual tomb.  However, we feel they are understating the actual facts.  Even though I harbor a skeptical cynicism toward most "traditional" sites, for a number of reasons I personally regard this tomb as the actual one referred to in the Gospel accounts.

Notes From Leviticus

In my study I was digging through my library on the Book of Leviticus and, in particular, was digesting the commentary by Andrew Bonar (a classic that I particularly treasure regarding this particular book of the Torah). I was reviewing the many detailed specifications of the various categories of offerings - every one of which profiles or foreshadows the various aspects of Christ's person and work.  I was particularly intrigued with the following:

 And he shall kill it on the side of the altar northward before the LORD: and the priests, Aaron's sons, shall sprinkle his blood round about upon the altar.  - Leviticus 1:11

Like so many of the textual details, this one was also expressly fulfilled by the fact that the ultimate sacrifice to which it points was, indeed, offered on the north side of the city, just outside of what is now called the "Damascus Gate." However, a footnote also caught my eye that included some unusual details about Joseph of Arimathea, which proved strikingly instructive.

Joseph of Arimathea

Andrew Bonar's footnote noted:  "A rich man, one of the most honorable and esteemed in Jerusalem, a member of the Sanhedrin, and a disciple, unexpectedly appears at Calvary.  This was Joseph of Arimathea, without exception the most singularly noble character introduced to us in the Gospels.  This rich man had been driven into concealment by the plots formed against him by the Jews, on account of his defending Jesus in the Sanhedrin openly (Luke 23:51)." In the Gospel of John we find a subtle but significant mistranslation:

And after this Joseph of Arimathea, being a disciple of Jesus, but secretly for fear of the Jews... - John 19:38

"...being a disciple":  "kekrummenoV de dia ton fobon twn ioudaiwn" not [the adverb] "secretly," for it is not kekrummenwV but [the adjective] "secreted," or forced to hide, by reason of their plots.  This makes his appearance before Pilate even more unexpected.

An Unrecorded Conversation

I cannot resist including the unrecorded conversation that occurred between Joseph of Arimathea and Pontius Pilate, who was, of course, shocked by Joseph's request for the body in the passage above. Pilate responded: "Joseph, I don't understand.  You're the richest man in the region; you have made this brand new tomb for your family; and, you're going to give it to this criminal?"

"Oi Veh!  It's just for the weekend!"  Joseph responded.

 (I have this on good authority: from Chuck Smith of Calvary Chapel.)

Where was His Tomb?

Andrew Bonar points out that in Isaiah 53 we find some very significant prophetic details:

He made his grave with the wicked [plural], and with the rich [singular] in his death; -  Isaiah 53:9

I had always assumed that the "transgressors" in Isaiah 53:9 simply pointed to the two thieves who were crucified with Him.  It was Bonar's insight that this refers to the burial itself, which included both the wicked and the rich. Another of the Levitical specifications deals with the offering being "...without the camp unto a clean place ..." (Leviticus 4:12; 6:11). It was this detail that actually gave rise to the Andrew Bonar's footnote: 1

Now in the place where he was crucified there was a garden; and in the garden a new sepulchre, wherein was never man yet laid.  - John 19:41

The very spot that criminals were put to death was where Joseph's new tomb was hewn out of a rock!  The stony sides of the tomb - the new tomb - "the clean place," where Jesus was laid - were part of the malefactor's hill.  His dead body is "with the rich man and with the wicked" in the hour of His death!  His grave is the property of a rich man; and yet the rocks which form the partition between His tomb and that of the other Calvary malefactors, are themselves part of Golgotha."

Anyone who has visited the Garden Tomb recognizes the validity of Bonar's perceptions: the site of Golgotha is topologically identifiable as at the peak of the ridge system between the Kidron Valley and the Tyropean Valley; midway between the Mount of Olives and Mount Zion.  It is also a very short walk to the tomb, and the tomb itself seems to fit a number detailed specifications from the Gospel texts:

1. It is proximate to Golgotha (Jn 19:41).
2. It was a new tomb hewn in the rock (Mt 27:60; Lk 23:53; Jn   19:41). 
3. It was a garden area (Jn 20:41, 42).  The enclosed cistern of 250,000 gallons implying a single, very wealthy, owner.
4. It was adjacent to a wine press.
5. It had a rolling stone door (Mt 27:60; 28:2; Mk 16:3; Lk 24:2).
6. The tomb itself was just to right of a wailing chamber (Mk 16:5).
7. And, it is empty!  (Lk 24:6, 12; Jn 20).
8. Gordon's Calvary

The present site of the "Garden Tomb" is often called, derisively, "Gordon's Calvary."  It remains controversial despite the evidences that favor it.  General Charles George Gordon was a British general who distinguished himself with assignments in the Crimean War and other exploits in the Far East.  He was commissioned a second lieutenant in 1852, and eventually found himself assigned in Palestine.  One day from his hotel he noticed the features of a "Skull Hill" and became convinced, despite church traditions to the contrary, that this was the true location of the crucifixion.  His discovery was based on the physical features of the area, derisively called "Gordon's Calvary" by those who still favor the traditional site. 

(The "Church of the Holy Sepulchre" is on the traditional site at another location that was selected by Queen Helena in the fourth century and was protected until 1009 A.D., when it was destroyed by Khalif Hakem.  The Greek Orthodox Church and the Russians erected the present Church of the Holy Sepulchre in 1810, where it stands today.)

General Gordon's discovery of what we now know as the "Garden Tomb" was in 1883.  What struck me about Andrew Bonar's observations, from the text, was that his commentary was published in 1846, almost 40 years before the discovery of the present site that so vividly presents the drama that is the very cornerstone of the entire Christian faith!2  It is inspiring to realize that the clarity of the situation was perceived by Andrew Bonar strictly from the text itself, without the physical benefits which we can presently enjoy on our visits to Jerusalem!

What an encouragement to all of us to pay close attention to details and to take them seriously!  "Not one jot or tittle," indeed!3

*  *  *



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
**FOR A MORE IN-DEPTH STUDY**

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


 The Easter Story - DVD - Chuck Missler 


I don't believe in fairy tales.
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G o a t b o y

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Re: The Empty Tomb
« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2008, 02:03:34 PM »
I don't believe in fairy tales.


I think one can appreciate it as good literature, and enjoy visiting historical sites people believe are connected to it given how much it has affected human hustory over the past 2,000 years,  but to base your whole life, worldview, and decisions on it is stupidity of the highest order.
Ron: "I am lazy."

20inch calves

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Re: The Empty Tomb
« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2008, 02:14:02 PM »
I don't believe in fairy tales.
[/quo



sometimes you say some of the dumbest things. if you don't agree you don't have to bash others beliefs >:(
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Re: The Empty Tomb
« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2008, 02:16:35 PM »
Are you saying liberalism and atheism go hand-in-hand?

I've wondered about this.  You've said in the past something about it being harder for libs to get into heaven, or something like that? 

it's a hard thing to defend, for either side.  Republicans like marriage, are against abortion, etc... which makes them closer to doing what's right.  On the other hand, Republicans also support the Bush Doctrine, which calls for pre-emptive strikes against any country we deem *might* be a threat.  In essence, it's "I will kill you because you MIGHT one day kill me".

I don't know that Jesus would have endorsed such a policy.  Where in the Bible does it say it's okay to kill a man because he *might* kill you someday?  Where does it say you can kill a man because of words he says? 
Hmmm. Might want to look at the part where Herod slew thousands, the 'massacre of the innocents,' in hopes of killing Jesus as he was warned by the magi of just such a threat. Kinda puts a dent on Jesus' sinless life. I mean, I'd have a hard time walking around knowing I was 'responsible' for all those deaths.  :-\

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Re: The Empty Tomb
« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2008, 02:22:40 PM »
No, what I said was, liberals can't be true Christians, since a lot of they're beliefs go aginst scripture. Obama and his Pastor are great example of that.

Sounds like the "no true scotsman" fallacy.

http://www.logicalfallacies.info/notruescotsman.html

I could just as easily say that most conservative christians are not true christians because they've forsaken jesus' message of love, forgiveness and tolerance.  But I won't.

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Re: The Empty Tomb
« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2008, 02:30:26 PM »
Hey "Doom" so I'm to assume your a liberal AND and atheist? Figures.

when people like you claim to be christian, then maybe atheism isn't that bad a choice.
b

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Re: The Empty Tomb
« Reply #22 on: March 23, 2008, 02:33:48 PM »
I don't believe in fairy tales.



sometimes you say some of the dumbest things. if you don't agree you don't have to bash others beliefs >:(



While there's cetrainly something to be said for expressing things in a tactful way, I don't think that "beliefs" necessarily need to be "respected". 

For example, if someone held the belief that the Earth was flat or that the Sun revolved around the Earth, should we be required to "respect" such stupidity simply because it is someone's closely-held belief?
Ron: "I am lazy."

Voice of Doom

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Re: The Empty Tomb
« Reply #23 on: March 23, 2008, 03:19:47 PM »
Hey "Doom" so I'm to assume your a liberal AND and atheist? Figures.

All thinking men are atheists - Voltaire 


But then, you've probably never hear of Voltaire...he wasn't an American


And I'm not a "liberal" but it does show the typical simplistic either/or two-dimensional thinking of the people you represent.  Let me know when you reach the next level...you might be more interesting to talk to. :o

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Re: The Empty Tomb
« Reply #24 on: March 23, 2008, 03:29:38 PM »
quit posting this non bodybuilding crap on the G&O, JOE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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