Brookings Institute: Romney Tax plan raises taxes on 95% (major issue)

[tonymctones]

Obama had been saying he was against them since the time he was on the campaign trail in 2008

I'm in favor of letting all the Bush tax cuts expire at the end of the year and let Congress work out a new tax cut (if they want to) in 2013

I think that the totally fair way to go - all income tax brackets get reset to pre-Bush levels and the current Congress can work on a new agreement going foward

LOL but he was completely ok with the taxes that will hit the middle class in obamacare, or maybe he had to pass it before he knew what was in it?

I say we make the govt get their fiscal house in order before they start raising taxes and taking rightfully and hard earned money away from anyone.

Doesnt that sound like a common sense approach straw?

[Kazan]

LOL but he was completely ok with the taxes that will hit the middle class in obamacare, or maybe he had to pass it before he knew what was in it?

I say we make the govt get their fiscal house in order before they start raising taxes and taking rightfully and hard earned money away from anyone.

Doesnt that sound like a common sense approach straw?

This is just crazy talk

[Straw Man]

LOL but he was completely ok with the taxes that will hit the middle class in obamacare, or maybe he had to pass it before he knew what was in it?

I say we make the govt get their fiscal house in order before they start raising taxes and taking rightfully and hard earned money away from anyone.

Doesnt that sound like a common sense approach straw?

he called it a penalty
the SC called it a tax and as you know, most people in the middle class don't have a large enough income for them to even be required to pay a penalty/tax

the so called tax would only hit wealthy people who for some reason choose not to have health insurance

[tonymctones]

he called it a penalty
the SC called it a tax and as you know, most people in the middle class don't have a large enough income for them to even be required to pay a penalty/tax

the so called tax would only hit wealthy people who for some reason choose not to have health insurance

he called the mandate a penalty, but there are plenty of other taxes in the health care bill....

[Straw Man]

he called the mandate a penalty, but there are plenty of other taxes in the health care bill....

such as and are they offset with other saving to have net positive ?

[tonymctones]

such as and are they offset with other saving to have net positive ?

guess you missed this thread...
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=431195.0

Probably missed this one too about obamas tax plan set to cost us 700K jobs so Ill just link it here as well.

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=431539.75

[Straw Man]

guess you missed this thread...
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=431195.0

Probably missed this one too about obamas tax plan set to cost us 700K jobs so Ill just link it here as well.

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=431539.75

I saw them both and both include lots of nonsense

you were speaking specifically about taxes in the health care legislation and I asked you to name some

define what you're talking about

[Kazan]

he called it a penalty
the SC called it a tax and as you know, most people in the middle class don't have a large enough income for them to even be required to pay a penalty/tax

the so called tax would only hit wealthy people who for some reason choose not to have health insurance

If it was actually a penalty the fucking bill would have been ruled unconstitutional and that would be that. But since the SC saw fit to call it what it is, here we are. Plus I find it very unsettling that the government can "tax" someone for inactivity

[Straw Man]

If it was actually a penalty the fucking bill would have been ruled unconstitutional and that would be that. But since the SC saw fit to call it what it is, here we are. Plus I find it very unsettling that the government can "tax" someone for inactivity

I'd be fine if the people who refused to buy insurance did not then require at some point "activity" by someone in the future

said person doesn't want to take care of their health but wants emergency services when their personal neglect becomes a crisis

or forgot the personal neglect part, let's say they get in a serious accident and need hundreds of thousands of dollars in immediate medical care

why should we as a society have to provide those services

shouldn't we create an opt out where you choose ahead of time that we should let you die ?

[Kazan]

I'd be fine if the people who refused to buy insurance did not then require at some point "activity" by someone in the future

said person doesn't want to take care of their health but wants emergency services when their personal neglect becomes a crisis

or forgot the personal neglect part, let's say they get in a serious accident and need hundreds of thousands of dollars in immediate medical care

why should we as a society have to provide those services

shouldn't we create an opt out where you choose ahead of time that we should let you die ?

Absolutely, It is not mine, yours, or anyone else's responsibility. I would much prefer that over the alternative of the government getting their hooks into every aspect of life

[Straw Man]

Absolutely, It is not mine, yours, or anyone else's responsibility. I would much prefer that over the alternative of the government getting their hooks into every aspect of life

well I'm not sure the govt is getting their hooks in every aspect of life but let's stay on point

if someone is critically injured in a car accident and we discover they don't have insurance or the means to pay for their care what should we do

what's the best way to proceed at that point

let's say for example we discover this at the scene or in the emergency room or the next day after we've saved their life but they are still is critical condition

pick any one of those and tell me how we should proceed

[tonymctones]

I saw them both and both include lots of nonsense

you were speaking specifically about taxes in the health care legislation and I asked you to name some

define what you're talking about

and what nonsense do you see from the assestment from ernst and young straw man?

the very first post of the obama middle class tax hikes thread has them. Its obvious you havent looked at either of those threads.

[blacken700]

People making $200,000 or less a year would see their taxes rise by an average of about $2,000.


i can see where he's for the average guy

this is the romney plan,if you like the idea of taxing the middle class more vote for him,it's that easy

[Soul Crusher]

People making $200,000 or less a year would see their taxes rise by an average of about $2,000.


i can see where he's for the average guy

this is the romney plan,if you like the idea of taxing the middle class more vote for him,it's that easy

Correct, under ObamaCare premiums are skyrocketing. 

[tonymctones]

People making $200,000 or less a year would see their taxes rise by an average of about $2,000.


i can see where he's for the average guy

this is the romney plan,if you like the idea of taxing the middle class more vote for him,it's that easy

yes but taxes in obamacare and possibly losing 700K jobs is A-OK right?

[blacken700]

People making $200,000 or less a year would see their taxes rise by an average of about $2,000.


i can see where he's for the average guy

this is the romney plan,if you like the idea of taxing the middle class more vote for him,it's that easy

[tonymctones]

But does it cost us 700K jobs?

Per one of the worlds most respected accounting/consulting firms obamas does.

You probably just missed my thread so here you go

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=431539.75

and since when did the left become opposed to middle class taxes?

I would think you guys wouldnt have any problem seeing how much obama care is going to raise taxes on everyone.

You must have missed that thread to so Ill kindly just give you the link to that one as well

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=431539.75

so the "rich" who already pay something like 90%+ of the federal income taxes collected dont pay enough blacken is that what youre saying?

while 50% dont pay any at all and in fact many get money back...

[Straw Man]

and what nonsense do you see from the assestment from ernst and young straw man?
the very first post of the obama middle class tax hikes thread has them. Its obvious you havent looked at either of those threads.

nothing because it's not in the middle class tax hike thread and the link doesn't work

You said Obamacare had tax increases on the midle class and you weren't referring to the mandate so how about some details

[howardroark]

nothing because it's not in the middle class tax hike thread and the link doesn't work

You said Obamacare had tax increases on the midle class and you weren't referring to the mandate so how about some details

Such as the tax on sick people. Or the employer mandate, which will have downstream effects on workers no different than the payroll tax.

Democrats apparently have a good handle on economics now-a-days. They understand that if they tax something, they'll get less of it. That's probably the reason behind their sick people tax. 

[howardroark]

I saw them both and both include lots of nonsense

you were speaking specifically about taxes in the health care legislation and I asked you to name some

define what you're talking about

Here are the coming Obama middle-income tax hikes from a thread you labeled "nonsense." Please go down the list and show me how each tax hike is "nonsense."

1. Bush tax cut expiration - Obama has stated that he wishes to extend the Bush tax cuts for those earning under $250,000 for one year. Read that again. That means that in the beginning of 2014, middle and lower-income individuals can expect to see their tax bills increase.

2. Payroll tax cut expiration - The payroll tax cuts for middle and lower-income individuals are set to expire in the beginning of 2013.

3. Comprehensive Health Insurance Plan Tax - Starting in 2018, there will be a 40% tax on comprehensive health insurance plans ($10,200 single/$27,500 family) thanks to Obamacare. This tax is expected to hit a lot of unionized blue collar workers. This is a $32 billion tax hike.

4. High Medical Bills Tax - Starting in 2013,  the deduction for medical bills exceeding 7.5% of an individual's adjusted gross income will be cut: the threshold for medical deductions will be raised to 10% of adjusted gross income. This is a $15.2 billion tax hike on the sick.

5. Medicine Cabinet Tax - Americans are no longer able to use health savings account (HSA), flexible spending account (FSA), or health reimbursement (HRA) pre-tax dollars to purchase non-prescription, over-the-counter medicines (except insulin).

6. HSA Withdrawal Tax - Increases additional tax on non-medical early withdrawals from an HSA from 10 to 20 percent, disadvantaging them relative to IRAs and other tax-advantaged accounts, which remain at 10 percent.

7. Special Needs Kids Tax - Beginning of 2013, imposes cap of $2500 (Indexed to inflation after 2013) on FSAs (now unlimited). . There is one group of FSA owners for whom this new cap will be particularly cruel and onerous: parents of special needs children.  There are thousands of families with special needs children in the United States, and many of them use FSAs to pay for special needs education.  Tuition rates at one leading school that teaches special needs children in Washington, D.C. (National Child Research Center) can easily exceed $14,000 per year. Under tax rules, FSA dollars can be used to pay for this type of special needs education.

[howardroark]

People making $200,000 or less a year would see their taxes rise by an average of about $2,000.


i can see where he's for the average guy

this is the romney plan,if you like the idea of taxing the middle class more vote for him,it's that easy

Remember the part of the study which says that the study doesn't actually score Romney's plan?

I'd love to see your answer to this: http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=435267.0

[Straw Man]

Here are the coming Obama middle-income tax hikes from a thread you labeled "nonsense." Please go down the list and show me how each tax hike is "nonsense."

1. Bush tax cut expiration - Obama has stated that he wishes to extend the Bush tax cuts for those earning under $250,000 for one year. Read that again. That means that in the beginning of 2014, middle and lower-income individuals can expect to see their tax bills increase.

2. Payroll tax cut expiration - The payroll tax cuts for middle and lower-income individuals are set to expire in the beginning of 2013.

3. Comprehensive Health Insurance Plan Tax - Starting in 2018, there will be a 40% tax on comprehensive health insurance plans ($10,200 single/$27,500 family) thanks to Obamacare. This tax is expected to hit a lot of unionized blue collar workers. This is a $32 billion tax hike.

4. High Medical Bills Tax - Starting in 2013,  the deduction for medical bills exceeding 7.5% of an individual's adjusted gross income will be cut: the threshold for medical deductions will be raised to 10% of adjusted gross income. This is a $15.2 billion tax hike on the sick.

5. Medicine Cabinet Tax - Americans are no longer able to use health savings account (HSA), flexible spending account (FSA), or health reimbursement (HRA) pre-tax dollars to purchase non-prescription, over-the-counter medicines (except insulin).

6. HSA Withdrawal Tax - Increases additional tax on non-medical early withdrawals from an HSA from 10 to 20 percent, disadvantaging them relative to IRAs and other tax-advantaged accounts, which remain at 10 percent.

7. Special Needs Kids Tax - Beginning of 2013, imposes cap of $2500 (Indexed to inflation after 2013) on FSAs (now unlimited). . There is one group of FSA owners for whom this new cap will be particularly cruel and onerous: parents of special needs children.  There are thousands of families with special needs children in the United States, and many of them use FSAs to pay for special needs education.  Tuition rates at one leading school that teaches special needs children in Washington, D.C. (National Child Research Center) can easily exceed $14,000 per year. Under tax rules, FSA dollars can be used to pay for this type of special needs education.

1,2, 5, 6 are complete nonsense to portray them as a tax increase by Obama
I'll look into thte other ansd see if they have any merit as a tax increase and/or if there are other benefits which offset the impact

[Straw Man]

Remember the part of the study which says that the study doesn't actually score Romney's plan?

I'd love to see your answer to this: http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=435267.0

of course I remember it
I mentioned it in my first post on this thread
I'm sure Romney will be quick to fill in the missing details
If there is one thing he is known for it's providing precise information on his political and economic positions

[howardroark]

1,2, 5, 6 are complete nonsense to portray them as a tax increase by Obama
I'll look into thte other ansd see if they have any merit as a tax increase and/or if there are other benefits which offset the impact

Okay, so you'll dismiss it all as nonsense without even knowing the details. This reveals a larger trend in your posts, where you state some unbacked assertion, and then when you're challenged on them you state something to the effect of "I'll look into the others later" or "I don't have time to read that right now." Let's deal with the ones you object to separately:

1. It's indisputable fact that Obama has argued for extending the Bush tax cuts for those earning under $250,000 FOR ONE YEAR. If he believed in never raising taxes on the rich, then why wouldn't he extend those tax cuts permanently, or at least for the 10-year period which avoids the Byrd rule?

2. Again, with the payroll tax cut: if Obama planned on not raising taxes on the non-rich, then why wouldn't he make this tax cut permanent or at least extend it for the 10-year period which avoids the Byrd rule?

5. Are you trying to claim that middle income earners don't use health savings accounts? Everyone who works for Whole Foods and the municipal workers of several counties disagree with you.

6. See above.

[howardroark]

of course I remember it
I mentioned it in my first post on this thread
I'm sure Romney will be quick to fill in the missing details
If there is one thing he is known for it's providing precise information on his political and economic positions

You realize that Romney's plan cuts tax rates across the board by 20%, eliminates investment taxes for those who earn under $200,000, and repeals the AMT which taxes upper middle-income earners, right?

So can you please point out where there is a hidden middle-income tax hike in the Romney plan?