Author Topic: do you 'think' u chose to be born  (Read 7845 times)

tbombz

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Re: do you 'think' u chose to be born
« Reply #25 on: March 22, 2009, 04:52:38 PM »
in some hypothetical other reality u made this decision...if so what do you have to or need to learn or accomplish in this life
in order for a person to make any kind of choice about anything, they must first exist. it follows that its impossible to choose to exist.


The True Adonis

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Re: do you 'think' u chose to be born
« Reply #26 on: March 22, 2009, 05:33:19 PM »
In this song, a man is telling us about the time he asked his lover to stay but the answer given was that love doesn't last and is always superceded by lust sooner or later.  He is presumably telling us this story by way of making the same point to us that his lover in the story made to him.
Interesting interpretation you have there, mine comes from the artist. :)

The Master

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Re: do you 'think' u chose to be born
« Reply #27 on: March 22, 2009, 05:35:24 PM »
Don't know.

Believing in objective reality = a leap of faith.

shiftedShapes

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Re: do you 'think' u chose to be born
« Reply #28 on: March 22, 2009, 05:39:23 PM »
Don't know.

Believing in objective reality = a leap of faith.

yes when all our experience is subjective.

The Master

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Re: do you 'think' u chose to be born
« Reply #29 on: March 22, 2009, 05:46:43 PM »
yes when all our experience is subjective.

Think about it.

How do you know that your memories = real? Can you prove that they are not just implanted a few seconds ago? How do you know that things you are currently not aware of actually exist? Can you prove that the other side of town = existing if you are not aware of it? Can you prove that objective reality exist the way we think it do beyond what you are experiencing right now?

Perhaps you = just living in a simulation. Can you prove otherwise? :D

Interesting questions. Debussey thinks answering yes to them requires a bit of faith.

Wiggs

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Re: do you 'think' u chose to be born
« Reply #30 on: March 22, 2009, 06:27:14 PM »
I remember one day, when I was a sperm, chillin' in my dads balls hanging out.  That's when I decided the next time there was a black hole, I would let it take me into the abyss.  I grabbed about 100 million other friends and we all patiently waited.  I remember swimming up a this tube and was drawn to an immense circular orb.  I had to have it.  While many of my buddies were lost, the last few of us tried to bust through the orb's tough wall.  Fortunatly for me, I made it. The rest is history... ;D

All willpower bitches.
7

The Wizard of Truth

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Re: do you 'think' u chose to be born
« Reply #31 on: March 22, 2009, 06:28:47 PM »
Goodnight Wiggs,a good man,an intelligant man and a man always wanting to better himself
Its bedtime in Ireland now

Cleanest Natural

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Re: do you 'think' u chose to be born
« Reply #32 on: March 23, 2009, 12:19:19 AM »
where do you get this from?
It kind of sounds like numerology some of it..
I don't see any numbers in what I wrote...and why do you think I "got it" somewhere??

I think

The Master

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Re: do you 'think' u chose to be born
« Reply #33 on: March 23, 2009, 12:21:14 AM »
I don't see any numbers in what I wrote...and why do you think I "got it" somewhere??

I think

Hey dear Spermytaste. Are you doing fine down in eastern europe? Lots of fine cock to suck?

wavelength

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Re: do you 'think' u chose to be born
« Reply #34 on: March 23, 2009, 12:40:27 AM »
Think about it.

How do you know that your memories = real? Can you prove that they are not just implanted a few seconds ago? How do you know that things you are currently not aware of actually exist? Can you prove that the other side of town = existing if you are not aware of it? Can you prove that objective reality exist the way we think it do beyond what you are experiencing right now?

Perhaps you = just living in a simulation. Can you prove otherwise? :D

Interesting questions. Debussey thinks answering yes to them requires a bit of faith.

What you can be sure of is consciousness. It's required for both implanted memories and living in a simulation.
Objective reality apart from consciousness is however an illogical concept.

The Master

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Re: do you 'think' u chose to be born
« Reply #35 on: March 23, 2009, 12:41:55 AM »
What you can be sure of is consciousness. It's required for both implanted memories and living in a simulation.
Objective reality apart from consciousness is however an illogical concept.

That was what Debussey was somewhat aiming too. The only thing you can truly "know" is that you are aware at this moment in time.

wavelength

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Re: do you 'think' u chose to be born
« Reply #36 on: March 23, 2009, 01:04:14 AM »
That was what Debussey was somewhat aiming too. The only thing you can truly "know" is that you are aware at this moment in time.

IMO the problem with implanted memories and living in a simulation is that it doesn't really dismiss the concept of objective reality, it just puts a layer in between. It can be used to show the absurdity but in the end must be dismissed together with objective reality.

webcake

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Re: do you 'think' u chose to be born
« Reply #37 on: March 23, 2009, 01:30:02 AM »
When i was a sperm i was juicing which is why i kicked all the other sperms asses to the egg.......... 8)
No doubt about it...

dustin

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Re: do you 'think' u chose to be born
« Reply #38 on: March 23, 2009, 01:33:18 AM »
No. The condom broke. My dad jokingly calls me a mistake all the time. Who the fuck cares? We're all here now. It's party time. Life is about getting roided up, fucked up on nubain and doing G4P all greased up in a tiny banana hammock for rich schmoes.

Remember, it's only degrading if the client steps passed the line. 8)

WillGrant

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Re: do you 'think' u chose to be born
« Reply #39 on: March 23, 2009, 01:37:30 AM »
you choose where and when according to your mind pattern

you choose the parents who will provide the genetics also according to your mind pattern

you telepathically send them your name before birth...it's your personal signature in hyperspace and is unique to you
babhahahahahahahaha you need help you fukin gypsy moron hahahahaha

WillGrant

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Re: do you 'think' u chose to be born
« Reply #40 on: March 23, 2009, 01:39:21 AM »
Hey dear Spermytaste. Are you doing fine down in eastern europe? Lots of fine cock to suck?
;D

PANDAEMONIUM

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Re: do you 'think' u chose to be born
« Reply #41 on: March 23, 2009, 01:39:58 AM »
No. The condom broke. My dad jokingly calls me a mistake all the time.

hahaha

Tapeworm

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Re: do you 'think' u chose to be born
« Reply #42 on: March 23, 2009, 01:46:26 AM »
That was what Debussey was somewhat aiming too. The only thing you can truly "know" is that you are aware at this moment in time.

I'm ill informed on Kant's philosophy so won't be able to answer any "probing" questions, but his Critique of Pure Reason revisits and examines Plato's notions of form and that which is knowable without experience or observational data (pure reason, rather than reasoning about the observed world).  The vastly oversimplified upshot is that time and space, and our understanding of them and sequencing of phenomena within them, are precedent to experience.  So too is our understanding of form.  He termed this sort of knowledge "a priori" and carried on about logical causality (rather than physical), such as a geometric proof which is not only universally true and knowable without observation but which is incapable of being proven through observation, since for instance no one could draw a flawless right angle triangle and take perfect measurements of it.  Rather, our understanding of the nature of the triangle is based upon our purely intellectual apprenhension of it's form.

I'm going by hazy memory here so gimmie a pass if I'm a little off target.


Interesting interpretation you have there, mine comes from the artist. :)

You know Prince?

wavelength

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Re: do you 'think' u chose to be born
« Reply #43 on: March 23, 2009, 01:57:49 AM »
I'm ill informed on Kant's philosophy so won't be able to answer any "probing" questions, but his Critique of Pure Reason revisits and examines Plato's notions of form and that which is knowable without experience or observational data (pure reason, rather than reasoning about the observed world).  The vastly oversimplified upshot is that time and space, and our understanding of them and sequencing of phenomena within them, are precedent to experience.  So too is our understanding of form.  He termed this sort of knowledge "a priori" and carried on about logical causality (rather than physical), such as a geometric proof which is not only universally true and knowable without observation but which is incapable of being proven through observation, since for instance no one could draw a flawless right angle triangle and take perfect measurements of it.  Rather, our understanding of the nature of the triangle is based upon our purely intellectual apprenhension of it's form.

Regarding space and time he actually identified them as pure methods of human consciousness. Not something that has objective reality but merely a concept bound to human consciousness.

The True Adonis

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Re: do you 'think' u chose to be born
« Reply #44 on: March 23, 2009, 02:02:49 AM »
I'm ill informed on Kant's philosophy so won't be able to answer any "probing" questions, but his Critique of Pure Reason revisits and examines Plato's notions of form and that which is knowable without experience or observational data (pure reason, rather than reasoning about the observed world).  The vastly oversimplified upshot is that time and space, and our understanding of them and sequencing of phenomena within them, are precedent to experience.  So too is our understanding of form.  He termed this sort of knowledge "a priori" and carried on about logical causality (rather than physical), such as a geometric proof which is not only universally true and knowable without observation but which is incapable of being proven through observation, since for instance no one could draw a flawless right angle triangle and take perfect measurements of it.  Rather, our understanding of the nature of the triangle is based upon our purely intellectual apprenhension of it's form.

I'm going by hazy memory here so gimmie a pass if I'm a little off target.


You know Prince?
That is NOT Prince`s song my friend.  Q Lazzarus is the original artist singing and the lyrics and music are written by William Garvey,  Q Lazzarus has an interesting voice and is actually a woman.

Where on earth did you get the idea this was Prince`s song?

You might wanna get rid of your earlier posts regarding Goodbye Horses. LOL

The True Adonis

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Re: do you 'think' u chose to be born
« Reply #45 on: March 23, 2009, 02:07:14 AM »
I'm ill informed on Kant's philosophy so won't be able to answer any "probing" questions, but his Critique of Pure Reason revisits and examines Plato's notions of form and that which is knowable without experience or observational data (pure reason, rather than reasoning about the observed world).  The vastly oversimplified upshot is that time and space, and our understanding of them and sequencing of phenomena within them, are precedent to experience.  So too is our understanding of form.  He termed this sort of knowledge "a priori" and carried on about logical causality (rather than physical), such as a geometric proof which is not only universally true and knowable without observation but which is incapable of being proven through observation, since for instance no one could draw a flawless right angle triangle and take perfect measurements of it.  Rather, our understanding of the nature of the triangle is based upon our purely intellectual apprenhension of it's form.

I'm going by hazy memory here so gimmie a pass if I'm a little off target.


You know Prince?
Hope this helps.

http://www.garveymedia.com/garvey/goodbye_horses.html


As the writer, musician and producer of this song, I wanted to add a bit of light to it, as it has a rather grisly association with the serial killer in “The Silence of the Lambs”, but really the song is about transcendence over those who see the world as only earthy and finite. The horses represent the five senses from Hindu philosophy (The Bhagavad Gita) and the ability to lift one’s perception above these physical limitations and to see beyond this limited Earthly perspective.

I mixed this version to be slightly more vibrant using some late 70’s percussion (Eno, OMD). It’s sort of a pre-mix, as if it were done back when electronic music was still new, utopian and innocent. I didn’t want to distract those familiar with the original, I only wanted to enhance it, therefore I left the song’s event structure intact.


   1.

      -William Garvey  2008



GOODBYE HORSES


He told me, “I’ve seen it rise,

But, it always falls.

I’ve seen ‘em come, I’ve seen ‘em go.”

He said, "All things pass into the night.”


And I said, "Oh no sir, I must say you're wrong,

I must disagree, Oh no sir, I must say you're wrong,

Won't you listen to me?”


He told me, “I've seen it all before,

I’ve been there, I've seen my hopes and dreams

lying on the ground.

I've seen the sky, just begin to fall.”

He said, "All things pass into the night"


And I said, "Oh no sir, I must say you're wrong,

I must disagree, Oh no sir, I must say you're wrong,

Won't you listen to me.”


Goodbye horses, I'm flying over you.

Goodbye horses, I'm flying over you.


William Garvey - BMI

Words & Music Copyright 1988

Q&B Publishing


Vocals: Q Lazzarus

Words, Music & Production: Garvey

Copyright © 2008 Garvey Media LLC

Tapeworm

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Re: do you 'think' u chose to be born
« Reply #46 on: March 23, 2009, 02:48:55 AM »
That is NOT Prince`s song my friend.  Q Lazzarus is the original artist singing and the lyrics and music are written by William Garvey,  Q Lazzarus has an interesting voice and is actually a woman.

Where on earth did you get the idea this was Prince`s song?
You might wanna get rid of your earlier posts regarding Goodbye Horses. LOL

Punning on "the artist."  Nevermind.

Ok, if that's what dude[te] says but still I like my interpretation.  Seen 'em come and go is about as double entendre as it gets.  Hopes and dreams lines sound a lot like heartache to me.  All things pass into the night.  The lover is going to leave, into the night, leaving the narrator in darkness too, and darker drives being the truth.  "I must say you're wrong" lines convey a now past naivete.  I thought the horses were both optimistic innocence and a string of past lovers. 

See if you can listen to it with a view of it being a story of someone who rejects the possibility of lasting love because he (or she, who knew?) was rejected in the past.  It makes very good sense, and doesn't presuppose a knowledge of the role of horses in eastern thought.  I think that guy is pulling your leg dude.  Just listen to the song.

Tapeworm

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Re: do you 'think' u chose to be born
« Reply #47 on: March 23, 2009, 03:12:27 AM »
Regarding space and time he actually identified them as pure methods of human consciousness. Not something that has objective reality but merely a concept bound to human consciousness.

Sure, we could say the same for form.  It doesn't physically exist but it's a conceptual construct. 

Say for the sake of argument we wanted to take a skeptic's POV like DF, that nothing is knowable with any certainty since the senses can't be trusted.  In doing so we're rejecting objective reality, so the objective world is no more real than concepts, and is probably less so since we have immediate knowledge of our own cognition.  Such knowledge doesn't stop at 'cogito ergo sum' as DF claims but allows for further introspection, such as the fact that the realization of the reality of cognition presupposes the faculty of reason and logic in order to be able to conclude that the thought is necessarily real by virtue of its being thought.

Am I flailing?  I'm flailing, aren't I?  :D

Tapeworm

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Re: do you 'think' u chose to be born
« Reply #48 on: March 23, 2009, 03:30:01 AM »
Forgive me Wave, I didn't say that very well.  What I'm driving at is:

-Recognition of a tautology like cogito ergo sum requires conceptualization and reason.
-Therefore concepts and reason exist.
-So we have a much broader intellectual reality than just immediate knowledge of being.

This is by way of answering Debussey's assertion that "the only thing you can truly "know" is that you are aware at this moment in time."

Fatpanda

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Re: do you 'think' u chose to be born
« Reply #49 on: March 23, 2009, 03:48:35 AM »
First time I have agreed with you.

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