Author Topic: OBAMA: Let's Save Money By Making Coins With Cheaper Metals (Rome anybody???)  (Read 1494 times)

Soul Crusher

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OBAMA: Let's Save Money By Making Coins With Cheaper Metals
Joe Weisenthal | 6 hours ago | 1,313 | 26
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As a means of saving money, this is one of Obama's proposed cuts in his budget.

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SAVINGS: INCREASED FLEXIBILITY FOR THE U.S. MINT IN COINAGE

Department of the Treasury

The Budget proposes to provide the Mint with greater flexibility in the material composition of coins to reduce its losses on some coins and the production costs associated with volatile metal prices. Additionally, the Budget increases the Mint's flexibility to match customer demand and supply by eliminating the provision requiring the Mint to produce Native American dollar coins in an amount equal to 20 percent of all dollar coins produced.
Justification

The Mint's primary cost driver is the price of metal, a factor over which it has no control. Daily spot prices of copper and zinc, the Mint's two main metallic materials, have fluctuated in excess of 400 percent, and the price of nickel by 500 percent over the past 10 years.1    This contributes to volatile and negative margins on both the penny and nickel: recently, the penny has cost approximately 2.4 cents, and the nickel approximately 11.2 cents to produce.2

Through its gains on the costs of producing other coins, the Mint annually returns hundreds of millions of dollars to the Treasury General Fund (GF) and is funded by the Mint Public Enterprise Fund. The gains from the dime, quarter, and dollar coin are used to offset the losses from the penny and the nickel, with the excess funds being transferred to GF. However, on December 13, 2011, citing inventories of 1.4 billion surplus dollar coins in Federal Reserve vaults, enough to meet current levels of circulating demand for more than a decade, the Secretary of the Treasury suspended production of the Presidential dollar coin as part of the Vice President's Campaign to Cut Waste. The suspended production of the Presidential dollar coin will reduce the amount of revenue available for the Mint to offset production costs of the penny and the nickel. Greater flexibility in the composition of coinage materials could enable the Mint to utilize less expensive metals in the minting process and substantially reduce its production costs. Using alternative coinage materials could save the Mint millions annually after a potential initial period of development and capital adjustments. Savings estimates will be available after the Mint concludes ongoing research on the most cost-effective materials.

The 2013 Budget would bring the costs of coins more in-line with their face values and create a more sustainable, cost-effective 21st Century use of materials in the minting process. The Budget enables the Department of the Treasury to explore, analyze, and approve new, less-expensive metals for all circulating coins based on factors that will result in the highest quality of coin production at the most cost-effective price. Such factors may include physical, chemical, metallurgical, and technical characteristics; material, fabrication, minting, and distribution costs; materials availability and sources of raw materials; durability; effects on sorting, handling, packaging and vending machines; and resistance to counterfeiting. The added flexibility the Budget proposes will improve the minting process and enable the Mint to mitigate the high, volatile costs of commodity metals.

Additionally, the Budget would remove the current law requirement that twenty percent of all dollar coins produced be of the Native American design. Numismatic quality dollar coins would remain available for purchase, but eliminating the twenty percent requirement would increase the Mint's flexibility to match the supply to consumer demand.

Citations
1 http://www.infomine.com/investment/metalprices/

2 http://news.coinupdate.com/cost-to-make-penny-and-nickel-rises-1139/



Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/obama-lets-save-money-by-making-coins-with-cheaper-metals-2012-2#ixzz1mIv4DMwb

blacken700

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with you he can't win

Soul Crusher

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with you he can't win

Not when he does things like this!   Do you realize that this has historically only been done w nations on the verge of collapse to loot the people and rob them blind?


How can you keep supporting this?  Why?   What the fuck has obama ever done to earn such blind loyalty by you morons?         

Skip8282

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Maybe this is a good time to talk about going cashless.

I think it's a great idea.

But, I don't have the economic background to know if it's a wise idea.

Soul Crusher

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Maybe this is a good time to talk about going cashless.

I think it's a great idea.

But, I don't have the economic background to know if it's a wise idea.

Its a terrible idea IMHO and strips citizens of many freedoms.     

Shockwave

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Maybe this is a good time to talk about going cashless.

I think it's a great idea.

But, I don't have the economic background to know if it's a wise idea.
Lol, the central banks would LOVE us to go cashless.
Not a good idea IMHO.
Too many ways for them to abuse it, and too little ways for people to protect their assests.

blacken700

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Its a terrible idea IMHO and strips citizens of many freedoms.     

and it would be down right communist if obama suggested it ;D

blacken700

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canadian obama is doing it

OTTAWA -- Canada's mint will soon unveil one-dollar and two-dollar coins made from brass-plated steel, replacing more expensive nickel cores, the government said Friday.

An explanation in the official Canada Gazette said the traditional use in coinage of high cost alloys at volatile market rates has driven up production costs for governments around the world.

"In many countries, the intrinsic metal value of the coins are greater than their face value, leading to coin hoarding activities that reduces the efficiency of the monetary system," it said.

The new coins will be slightly lighter, Can$16 million (US$16 million) cheaper to produce and ship, and harder to counterfeit.

However, the change will cost coin-operated industries up to $40 million to recalibrate vending machines to recognize the new coinage.

The mining sector will also be hit as global nickel demand falls by about 539 metric tonnes per year, or 0.05 percent.

The Royal Canadian Mint has produced more than one billion loonies, as the one dollar coins are called, and over 700 billion toonies, the two-dollar coins, since they were introduced in 1987 and 1996, respectively.

In the Canada Gazette, it cited fluctuations in the price of nickel by more than 1,000 percent on the London Metal Exchange over the last decade for the switch to steel.

"In recent years, nickel prices have been very volatile and have increased dramatically leading to higher production costs," the mint said, noting that nickel is currently trading at four times higher than it was in 2000.

Skip8282

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Its a terrible idea IMHO and strips citizens of many freedoms.     



I'm all but cashless now.  Sure I keep some money handy in my pocket, but for the most part, I pay my bills online, use my debit whenever I don't have cash, for some things my bank pays from my account, etc.

I don't know of anyone (should say in my circle of friends) who keeps all that much cash around anyway - even my friends who are very well off.

What freedoms do you think would be lost?

OzmO

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What's the big deal?

We have been doing this for years.  No more silver coins since 64, and isn't a penny like 99% zinc now?

BFD.

Skip8282

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Lol, the central banks would LOVE us to go cashless.
Not a good idea IMHO.
Too many ways for them to abuse it, and too little ways for people to protect their assests.



Don't know enough about how this would affect central banks.

But, what protects my meager monies now?  Just a series of bank statements and slips showing I deposited or withdrew, etc.  My paycheck is automatically deposited and I just get a stub.

blacken700

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What's the big deal?

We have been doing this for years.  No more silver coins since 64, and isn't a penny like 99% zinc now?

BFD.

you know what the big deal is  :o     obama

B_B_C

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What is the point of having coins that cost more to produce than their face value. Besides coinage is a minute part of what we call money.
c

Shockwave

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Don't know enough about how this would affect central banks.

But, what protects my meager monies now?  Just a series of bank statements and slips showing I deposited or withdrew, etc.  My paycheck is automatically deposited and I just get a stub.
Its a matter that you can take your cash out, and go wherever you want. If you have a credit system, how are you going to make sure that the banks are honest? When you have issues, its not like you can pull your money and go elsewhere. Not to mention, banks lose peoples money all the time. They gamble with citizens money. In some cases, it flat out disappears. (A friend lost 500 with BoA, he deposited it, never showed up in his account, they refused to do anything about it)

Banks are the biggest crooks out there short of insurance companies.

Shockwave

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What is the point of having coins that cost more to produce than their face value. Besides coinage is a minute part of what we call money.
I think it would be a bigger deal if the value of the coin=value of the metal. But it isnt anymore.
Our whole monetary system is fucked. Our dollar is basically worthless if anything happened without a gold standard.

George Whorewell

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Look, let's just return to the barter system. This way we can eliminate banks and the treasury completely. The government will be forced to take taxes in the form of tangible property. 12 chickens, 2 tv's, 14 q tips and 57 microwaveable burritos= income tax return for the middle class

Hugo Chavez

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I'm all but cashless now.  Sure I keep some money handy in my pocket, but for the most part, I pay my bills online, use my debit whenever I don't have cash, for some things my bank pays from my account, etc.

I don't know of anyone (should say in my circle of friends) who keeps all that much cash around anyway - even my friends who are very well off.

What freedoms do you think would be lost?
I'll add another for cashless being a terrible idea. 

Soul Crusher

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Towards the last days of the roman empire they stopped minting siver coins and minted lead coins this is what became known as debasing the currency , today the elite owned fed does the same thing by debt creation, the end result will be the same, the dollar is being destroyed on purpose to bring in the elites new world order one world government with a global bank and currency the bancor and a global vat to make us proles pay for enslaving ourselves.


Via BI. 
History repeating itself.   

Soul Crusher

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Clipped Roman Coins and Shrunken Coke Cans
Read More: Coca-Cola, Economy, Empire, Inflation, Loss Of Empire, McDonald's, Roman Coins, Rome, Starbucks, Business News
 

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I have written about how recent upward consumer price trends for Starbucks and McDonald's are indicative of America's slide into penury as the credit crisis hits and the US dollar sinks, and fast-food chains become increasingly unaffordable for millions of Americans.

Add Coca-Cola to the mix to fully understand America's toxic cocktail of inflation, dollar collapse, and loss of empire.

The Romans, to pay for the cost of maintaining their empire, started a debilitating cycle of inflation by expanding the money supply.

They accomplished this by 'clipping' bits of gold from the existing coins in circulation and then used the purloined gold flakes to mint new coins. The coins kept getting smaller. The empire kept getting bigger. Prices went up while the purchasing power of each clipped coin went down.

In America today, the cost of maintaining the empire has prompted the government to start a debilitating cycle of inflation by expanding the money supply.

The difference between the Roman and American empire is that the Romans had a gold-backed currency that they physically needed to shrink to engineer empire-killing inflation. In America, the government, not having a gold-backed currency, just prints more worthless paper [and credit].

It took hundreds of years for the Roman empire to fall, but it will take less than one generation for the American empire to expire because unlike the Roman empire, the American empire was built on borrow-to-consume rather than produce-to-save.

Foreign governments (the new Vandals or 'axis of evil') are waking up to the fact that America has run out of cash, bullets and bombs and can't force the global US dollar hegemony to continue.

All the Vandals have to do is stop buying US dollars. They don't need to invade America to destroy America. All they need to do is switch from buying US dollars for their Forex reserves and buy any one of dozens of other currencies instead.

The Pentagon is in a particular mess. They are the biggest customer of oil in the world, and as the dollar collapses, and the price of oil (priced in dollars) goes up, and the American military can't afford to force the world to take their dollars anymore, they turn inward.

This only incentivizes the world -- not happy with America's attack on its own currency (inflation) and people (spying, unreasonable searches, unlawful imprisonment, etc.) -- to flick a switch and dump dollars.

In response, the American military and central bank, to pay for the oil it uses, and the bailouts it engineers, to pay itself huge bonuses and no-bid contracts, has turned more aggressively inward.

Increasing the prison population in America works to bring in some much needed dough as nothing is more profitable than prison labor camps run by authoritarian governments.

But just expanding the paper money supply and prisons is not enough. Stimulus checks are not enough. Socializing Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac is not enough...

Roman style coin clipping makes a come back, but in a way compatible for a consumer society fatally indebted.

As we see in this FT story, the idea of coin clipping as a way to inflate the money supply is alive and well as producer companies like Coca-Cola are now shrinking the size of their products; the equivalent of gold coin clipping.

From today's FT:
*Coca-Cola is shrinking the size of its Coke and Fanta cans in Hong Kong as it battles soaring aluminium prices, a move analysts say foreshadows broader packaging changes from the world's leading soft-drink brands.

*The soft-drinks group is reducing its can sizes to 330ml -- the most common can size -- from 355ml.

*Rising commodity prices have increased the cost of soft-drinks' packaging as well as the drinks' ingredients.

*Aluminium prices have risen by 65 per cent over the past three years to record levels as rising energy prices have pushed production costs sharply higher.

*Energy accounts for about 45 per cent of the cost of producing finished aluminium.

*Meanwhile, rising corn prices have raised the cost of high fructose corn syrup, which is used to sweeten most soft drinks.

*The US economic downturn is adding to companies' woes with PepsiCo this week reporting that sales were slowing at convenience stores as people become

*Cutting the volume or weight of products is becoming an increasingly popular way companies are pushing through effective price rises and protecting profit margins, according to John Kemp, analyst at RBS Sempra.

Link to FT article: Coke to shrink size of cans in Hong Kong

Follow Max Keiser on Twitter: www.twitter.com/maxkeiser

10:56 AM on 07/25/2008

Just think one day it will be cheaper for Coke to go back to sugar instead of High Fructose Corn Syrup.


Soul Crusher

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http://mises.org/daily/3663


great article.  Rome already tried what Ghettobama wants to do with miserable results.   being the economic and historic illiterate Obama is, I'm sure he has no idea that his scams have already been tried and failed. 

Shockwave

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I think the collapse is well underway.  :-\

Soul Crusher

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http://finance.yahoo.com/news/obama-wants-cheaper-pennies-nickels-101600840.html


Diocletion did this in Rome when they were collapsing. 

Fury

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http://finance.yahoo.com/news/obama-wants-cheaper-pennies-nickels-101600840.html


Diocletion did this in Rome when they were collapsing. 

It might be better if Obama wins reelection. Then when this country implodes during his second term, it opens the door for 8 years of Rand.

Soul Crusher

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It might be better if Obama wins reelection. Then when this country implodes during his second term, it opens the door for 8 years of Rand.

BF - you know what makes me crazy ?   I have read Gibbons front to back, read Adam Smith, read Marx and Lenin, read Hitler Mein Kampf, read Thomas Paine, read Montesqiue, read Hayek and Hazlitt, read the works of rothbard, Von Mises, Paul, schiff, sowell, etc.  And you know what?   It seems like nothing matters at all so long as a few greedy parasites like andre blackass Benny demand free shit outnumber everyone else that is all that matters.

Fury

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BF - you know what makes me crazy ?   I have read Gibbons front to back, read Adam Smith, read Marx and Lenin, read Hitler Mein Kampf, read Thomas Paine, read Montesqiue, read Hayek and Hazlitt, read the works of rothbard, Von Mises, Paul, schiff, sowell, etc.  And you know what?   It seems like nothing matters at all so long as a few greedy parasites like andre blackass Benny demand free shit outnumber everyone else that is all that matters.

Yup. We've hit that point where the takers outnumber the producers. We're fucked and we have the parasitic underclass (the 240s, the blackens, etc) to thank for our inability to right the ship. They'll probably be the first to go down when the violence hits, though.