San Francisco weighs decriminalizing prostitution

[OzmO]

Its a stupid and empty argument that organized crime wont deal with prostitutes or drugs because its made legal. Great point.

Its expensive now and people have the ability to buy it as easy as going to the market? What planet are you on? You think your average joe cheating on his wife that works at the local Wal Mart is shelling out $1000 bucks to sleep with some high priced hooker? Why wouldn't he go to his local brothel/ massage parlor and pay half as much or, just drive around a bad neihborhood and pay $50?

The only argument of any substance you made is Amerstdam, which is the only place on earth both vices are legal and to a degree legalization is successful. You think there is no organized crime in Amsterdam?

I agree in decriminalizing sex and drugs to the extent there is little or no enforcement of the law, but legalization in the name of stopping organized crime is total nonsense.

I didn't say they wouldn't.   They would just do it legally.   Why do you think i think organized crime would go away?  I don't.

As for paying for sex.  Don't know much about it except from what I've heard, but i believe a trip to the Mustang/Bunny ranch is about $200 and they are doing great business in Nevada (Hbo special series).   (the market i was talking about was the drug market)  Also, in SF, sex is easy to buy, as easy as going down town.  Jerry Rice got busted for it a while back.

Amsterdam is the only place i know that has legalized drugs.  And it is working fine.  who do you think probably owns much of the importing/exporting?  Probably organized crime.  but it's legal now for them.   Now the cost of police enforcement is cut in half because they are not chasing drug dealers but instead keeping the streets safe.

[Dos Equis]

That's stupid dude and a empty argument (save stopping organized crime which in the case of drugs will just allow them to convert to legit operations).  Legalized drugs is working fine in Amsterdam and is affordable.  Same goes for prostitution in Amsterdam and Nevada.   It's expensive now, and people have the ability to by it as easy as making a trip to the market.   

What would be good is the government would be able to tax it.  What makes it expensive now is trouble it takes to get illegal substances into the black market place. 

Doesn't seem to be "working fine" according to this article (about a year old):

Amsterdam draws curtain on sex industry as red light windows close
Last updated at 13:38 21 September 2007

Shut up shop: A third of prostitute windows set to close
Amsterdam is set to lose a large chunk of its red light district, after the forced sale of a third of the buildings currently used for prostitution.
With its scantily-clad prostitutes posing in brothel windows and coffee shops oozing the pungent aroma of cannabis smoke, the red light district's seediness has always been part of its attraction.
But the district is a magnet for petty criminals and, authorities believe, human traffickers, drug lords and mobsters - who take advantage of the situation to launder money.

 Amsterdam: the red light district's seediness has always been part of its attraction
 Cracking down on prostitutes: Amsterdam Mayor Job Cohen
The move is part of Mayor Job Cohen's efforts to counter that crime.
"What we do want is to get rid of the underlying criminality," said Cohen.
He insisted however that he didn't want to get rid of prostitution entirely, since it is part of the area's history and a major tourist draw for the city.
It is understood that the buildings could be turned into luxury apartments and tasteful shopping malls.
The NV Stadsgoed housing corporation has purchased 18 buildings with 51 windows, that have traditionally house window prostitutes in Amsterdam's famed red light district, for 25 million Euros.
That is around a third of the windows in the red light district, though there are other prostitution zones in the city.
NV Stadsgoed will redevelop some or all of the buildings, and because they are not likely to be worth as much as housing or regular commercial real estate, the city has agreed to reimburse the corporation by up to 15 million Euros.
Amsterdam has been conducting a crackdown on crime in the city centre for nearly five years, using a 2002 law that forces business operators to disclose detailed accounting in order to have their licenses renewed.
The seller in deal, "Fat" Charlie Geerts, was ordered by the city last year to close the windows because the city said he failed to meet standards.
scroll down for more

 Shut up shop: A third of all the prostitute windows are set to close
But he filed a legal protest and Amsterdam's District Court granted an injunction against closures while he fought the decision.
Prostitution is legal in the Netherlands, and coffee shops are licensed to sell small amounts of marijuana.
Prostitutes' rights organizations have generally been indifferent to the crackdown, arguing that pimps are the main source of problems, not landlords.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-483075/Amsterdam-draws-curtain-sex-industry-red-light-windows-close.html

[OzmO]

Doesn't seem to be "working fine" according to this article (about a year old):

Amsterdam draws curtain on sex industry as red light windows close
Last updated at 13:38 21 September 2007

Shut up shop: A third of prostitute windows set to close
Amsterdam is set to lose a large chunk of its red light district, after the forced sale of a third of the buildings currently used for prostitution.
With its scantily-clad prostitutes posing in brothel windows and coffee shops oozing the pungent aroma of cannabis smoke, the red light district's seediness has always been part of its attraction.
But the district is a magnet for petty criminals and, authorities believe, human traffickers, drug lords and mobsters - who take advantage of the situation to launder money.

 Amsterdam: the red light district's seediness has always been part of its attraction
 Cracking down on prostitutes: Amsterdam Mayor Job Cohen
The move is part of Mayor Job Cohen's efforts to counter that crime.
"What we do want is to get rid of the underlying criminality," said Cohen.
He insisted however that he didn't want to get rid of prostitution entirely, since it is part of the area's history and a major tourist draw for the city.
It is understood that the buildings could be turned into luxury apartments and tasteful shopping malls.
The NV Stadsgoed housing corporation has purchased 18 buildings with 51 windows, that have traditionally house window prostitutes in Amsterdam's famed red light district, for 25 million Euros.
That is around a third of the windows in the red light district, though there are other prostitution zones in the city.
NV Stadsgoed will redevelop some or all of the buildings, and because they are not likely to be worth as much as housing or regular commercial real estate, the city has agreed to reimburse the corporation by up to 15 million Euros.
Amsterdam has been conducting a crackdown on crime in the city centre for nearly five years, using a 2002 law that forces business operators to disclose detailed accounting in order to have their licenses renewed.
The seller in deal, "Fat" Charlie Geerts, was ordered by the city last year to close the windows because the city said he failed to meet standards.
scroll down for more

 Shut up shop: A third of all the prostitute windows are set to close
But he filed a legal protest and Amsterdam's District Court granted an injunction against closures while he fought the decision.
Prostitution is legal in the Netherlands, and coffee shops are licensed to sell small amounts of marijuana.
Prostitutes' rights organizations have generally been indifferent to the crackdown, arguing that pimps are the main source of problems, not landlords.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-483075/Amsterdam-draws-curtain-sex-industry-red-light-windows-close.html

I didn't say fine to insinuate it was problem free.

Legalized prostitution has it's benefits:

-  Prevention of STD's
-  Prevention of physical abuse.


The crime described in the article is in many large cities.  Legal or not.  the mayor's move will do nothing, the crime will just go else where.  They probably could do a better job enforcing and preventing it.   Maybe they should do like California does with smog checks 

[Dos Equis]

I didn't say fine to insinuate it was problem free.

Legalized prostitution has it's benefits:

-  Prevention of STD's
-  Prevention of physical abuse.


The crime described in the article is in many large cities.  Legal or not.  the mayor's move will do nothing, the crime will just go else where.  They probably could do a better job enforcing and preventing it.   Maybe they should do like California does with smog checks 

Is there proven link between prostitution and the rate of STDs in San Francisco? 

What physical abuse are you talking about?  I've prostitutes beaten up in the movies, but how often does that happen in SF? 

[OzmO]

Is there proven link between prostitution and the rate of STDs in San Francisco? 

What physical abuse are you talking about?  I've prostitutes beaten up in the movies, but how often does that happen in SF? 

The potential for abuse comes comes form the PIMP and the John.  Having legal prostitution allows for more of a controlled and safe location for the business.

As far STD's i doubt there much out there on stats because how many people are going to admit they got an STD from a hooker?  Aside from that it's an obvious danger. 

[Dos Equis]

The potential for abuse comes comes form the PIMP and the John.  Having legal prostitution allows for more of a controlled and safe location for the business.

As far STD's i doubt there much out there on stats because how many people are going to admit they got an STD from a hooker?  Aside from that it's an obvious danger. 

Regarding STDs, if we're going to legalize prostitution in part to stop the spread of STDs, then I would think there should be some showing that it's a significant problem. 

I understand the potential for abuse by a pimp and from a John, but again are those problems significant enough to legalize prostitution?   

[OzmO]

Regarding STDs, if we're going to legalize prostitution in part to stop the spread of STDs, then I would think there should be some showing that it's a significant problem. 

I understand the potential for abuse by a pimp and from a John, but again are those problems significant enough to legalize prostitution?   

There's the criminality aspect of it.  How much money is spent on vice?  I think the point for many is that prostitution will not go away.   Why not make it safer for everyone involved?

http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/mhvhealt.htm



The health consequences to women from prostitution are the same injuries and infections suffered by women who are subjected to other forms of violence against women. The physical health consequences include: injury (bruises, broken bones, black eyes, concussions). A 1994 study conducted with 68 women in Minneapolis/St.Paul who had been prostituted for at least six months found that half the women had been physically assaulted by their purchasers, and a third of these experienced purchaser assaults at least several times a year. 23% of those assaulted were beaten severely enough to have suffered broken bones. Two experienced violence so vicious that they were beaten into a coma. Furthermore, 90% of the women in this study had experienced violence in their personal relationships resulting in miscarriage, stabbing, loss of consciousness, and head injuries (Parriott, Health Experiences of Twin Cities Women Used in Prostitution).

The sex of prostitution is physically harmful to women in prostitution. STDs (including HIV/AIDS, chlamydia, gonorrhea, herpes, human papilloma virus, and syphilis) are alarmingly high among women in prostitution. Only 15 % of the women in the Minneapolis/St. Paul study had never contracted one of the STDs, not including AIDS, most injurious to health (chlamydia, syphilis, gonorrheal, herpes). General gynecological problems, but in particular chronic pelvic pain and pelvic inflammatory disease (PID), plague women in prostitution.. The Minneapolis/St. Paul study reported that 31% of the women interviewed had experienced at least one episode of PID which accounts for most of the serious illness associated with STD infection. Among these women, there was also a high incidence of positive pap smears, several times greater than the Minnesota Department of Health’s cervical cancer screening program for low and middle income women. More STD episodes can increase the risk of cervical cancer.

there's more but i didn't cut and paste the whole article.

That's from the first goolge link when "prostitution and STD's" where searched.  I'm sure there's much more.

[Dos Equis]

There's the criminality aspect of it.  How much money is spent on vice?  I think the point for many is that prostitution will not go away.   Why not make it safer for everyone involved?

http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/mhvhealt.htm



The health consequences to women from prostitution are the same injuries and infections suffered by women who are subjected to other forms of violence against women. The physical health consequences include: injury (bruises, broken bones, black eyes, concussions). A 1994 study conducted with 68 women in Minneapolis/St.Paul who had been prostituted for at least six months found that half the women had been physically assaulted by their purchasers, and a third of these experienced purchaser assaults at least several times a year. 23% of those assaulted were beaten severely enough to have suffered broken bones. Two experienced violence so vicious that they were beaten into a coma. Furthermore, 90% of the women in this study had experienced violence in their personal relationships resulting in miscarriage, stabbing, loss of consciousness, and head injuries (Parriott, Health Experiences of Twin Cities Women Used in Prostitution).

The sex of prostitution is physically harmful to women in prostitution. STDs (including HIV/AIDS, chlamydia, gonorrhea, herpes, human papilloma virus, and syphilis) are alarmingly high among women in prostitution. Only 15 % of the women in the Minneapolis/St. Paul study had never contracted one of the STDs, not including AIDS, most injurious to health (chlamydia, syphilis, gonorrheal, herpes). General gynecological problems, but in particular chronic pelvic pain and pelvic inflammatory disease (PID), plague women in prostitution.. The Minneapolis/St. Paul study reported that 31% of the women interviewed had experienced at least one episode of PID which accounts for most of the serious illness associated with STD infection. Among these women, there was also a high incidence of positive pap smears, several times greater than the Minnesota Department of Health’s cervical cancer screening program for low and middle income women. More STD episodes can increase the risk of cervical cancer.

there's more but i didn't cut and paste the whole article.

That's from the first goolge link when "prostitution and STD's" where searched.  I'm sure there's much more.

You can make the same argument about any crime (it will not go away). 

Good info about abuse and STDs.  Thanks.  I'd question the sample size (68 women in Minnesota), but that does provide some support for the abuse and STD angle. 

[OzmO]

You can make the same argument about any crime (it will not go away). 

Good info about abuse and STDs.  Thanks.  I'd question the sample size (68 women in Minnesota), but that does provide some support for the abuse and STD angle. 

I'm not suggesting legalizing murder  lol.   

[Dos Equis]

I'm not suggesting legalizing murder  lol.   

lol.