More test = more muscle.
agreed..although it didnt work for the person that started this thread...must be a non responder to test :P
where did you copy and paste this from
my friends, they key to making progress every workout, to getting as big as possible, as strong as possible, is to never EVER cause significant muscle damage. this means staying at least 2-3 reps shy of failure on EVERY set. even when youve already done several heavy sets and you would hit failure by doing 3-5 reps , you need to stop at 1-3 reps (just an example). never ever cause muscle damage. when you damage the muscle, your body has to repair that damage, and cant focus on building new muscle tissue. strength POTENTIAL and muscle size are directly correlated. the more muscle you have the moe weight you can lift. the more glycogen and water you have in the muscle the more rep capacity you have. if you want to get big and strong, you need to lift heavy heavy heavy. good form. stimulate the muscle to add new muscle cells so you can lift more weight. BUT STAY AWAY FROM FAILURE. you can add some extra size by throwing in higher reps, but only to a degree. you cant add any significant muscle tissue without progressive overload, all you do by increasing reps is increase stamina/rep capacity/glycogen/water levels.
discuss
Well, you are spot on with the statement that PROGRESSIVE OVERLOAD is the key, but the question is how to make it happen. So if one doesn't train to failure how does one know for certain to increase one's training weights? Is it only by feeling that one is ready to increase the training load? I don't know man, but in my opinion one of the components of training til failure is to allow one to know that they are indeed ready to increase their training load. For example if one does 6 to 8 reps per set and they find that they can do 10 reps with a given weight then that's a "signal" for them to increase their training weight.
where did you copy and paste this from
ha ha
my friends, they key to making progress every workout, to getting as big as possible, as strong as possible, is to never EVER cause significant muscle damage. this means staying at least 2-3 reps shy of failure on EVERY set. even when youve already done several heavy sets and you would hit failure by doing 3-5 reps , you need to stop at 1-3 reps (just an example). never ever cause muscle damage. when you damage the muscle, your body has to repair that damage, and cant focus on building new muscle tissue. strength POTENTIAL and muscle size are directly correlated. the more muscle you have the moe weight you can lift. the more glycogen and water you have in the muscle the more rep capacity you have. if you want to get big and strong, you need to lift heavy heavy heavy. good form. stimulate the muscle to add new muscle cells so you can lift more weight. BUT STAY AWAY FROM FAILURE. you can add some extra size by throwing in higher reps, but only to a degree. you cant add any significant muscle tissue without progressive overload, all you do by increasing reps is increase stamina/rep capacity/glycogen/water levels.
discuss
BALLOONEY OF A FAT DIRTBIKE RIDING KID WHO NEVER WAS ABLE TO GAIN MUCH FROM A SHITLOAD OF AAS. TRYING TO CONVINCE HIMSELF TTHAT ASS IS NOT THE KEY ,THAT STRENGTH IS THE KEY BUT NO FRIENDS MORE AAS= MORE GAINS ADD HGHONA AND YOU HAVE MUTATION TO HIGHER DEGREE...,,, UNLESS YOU HHAVE VERY BAD GENES. UNLESS YOUR GENETICS IS TO STAY FAT AND TAKES COCKS UP IN THE ASS FOR A DEEP TISSUE MASSAGE..,, DISMISSED,,
who the fuck are you? Ed mcmahon.......
agreed..although it didnt work for the person that started this thread...must be a non responder to test :PMaybe if he stuck the test into his buttcheek instead of between them it would work better.
I think i'm going on a bit of a tangent here but I got to ask: why doesn't the tbombz (or the other guru's on here) become a personal trainer?
I mean, why bother trying to convert the imbeciles who frequent this forum..go out and sell what you are preaching to a bunch or rubes
just take the test and get certified. Then, you don't even need to know what you are talking about; people will just take your word because you are "certified"
my friends, they key to making progress every workout, to getting as big as possible, as strong as possible, is to never EVER cause significant muscle damage. this means staying at least 2-3 reps shy of failure on EVERY set. even when youve already done several heavy sets and you would hit failure by doing 3-5 reps , you need to stop at 1-3 reps (just an example). never ever cause muscle damage. when you damage the muscle, your body has to repair that damage, and cant focus on building new muscle tissue. strength POTENTIAL and muscle size are directly correlated. the more muscle you have the moe weight you can lift. the more glycogen and water you have in the muscle the more rep capacity you have. if you want to get big and strong, you need to lift heavy heavy heavy. good form. stimulate the muscle to add new muscle cells so you can lift more weight. BUT STAY AWAY FROM FAILURE. you can add some extra size by throwing in higher reps, but only to a degree. you cant add any significant muscle tissue without progressive overload, all you do by increasing reps is increase stamina/rep capacity/glycogen/water levels.
discuss
because no one will listen to you if you look like shit
Competely wrong and misguided. Please do some research into hypertrophy and damage. Why should the muscle grow when you stop short of failure? It might occasionally but for steady growth you need to do something extraordinary. Strength comes but isn't the goal.You're always clackin your dentures about hypertrophy but you've never bothered to tell everyone your "theories" about it......
It is always refreshing to hear the considered advice of Getbiggers.
honestly, I don't recall tbombz looking like shit
then again, I haven't seen a recent pic
You're always clackin your dentures about hypertrophy but you've never bothered to tell everyone your "theories" about it......
The flotsam here wouldn't know the correct theory because they already have their pet theories. Cleansing the brains of the simple-minded is no easy task.You're more than capable of coming here and babbling on and on in your typical old man droning, but somehow you can't find the time/energy to post your theories? LMAO.
Clearly the Op has no clue about hypertrophy and neither do most of the blokes here.
You're more than capable of coming here and babbling on and on in your typical old man droning, but somehow you can't find the time/energy to post your theories? LMAO.
I have a theory too.........that you're full of shit! :D
his theory is.... if you have dbol you can win mr.canada in 1960 or whatever..ooooooh, I think his theory was to win Mr Canada 1948, you have to pick your own judging panel...
my friends, they key to making progress every workout, to getting as big as possible, as strong as possible, is to never EVER cause significant muscle damage. this means staying at least 2-3 reps shy of failure on EVERY set. even when youve already done several heavy sets and you would hit failure by doing 3-5 reps , you need to stop at 1-3 reps (just an example). never ever cause muscle damage. when you damage the muscle, your body has to repair that damage, and cant focus on building new muscle tissue. strength POTENTIAL and muscle size are directly correlated. the more muscle you have the moe weight you can lift. the more glycogen and water you have in the muscle the more rep capacity you have. if you want to get big and strong, you need to lift heavy heavy heavy. good form. stimulate the muscle to add new muscle cells so you can lift more weight. BUT STAY AWAY FROM FAILURE. you can add some extra size by throwing in higher reps, but only to a degree. you cant add any significant muscle tissue without progressive overload, all you do by increasing reps is increase stamina/rep capacity/glycogen/water levels.
discuss
Everything i've witnessed in my 17 years of weight lifting shows what you are saying here to be bullshit.You're a fucking liar and tdongz would fuck the shit out of you.
I've seen your theory proved wrong with my own two eyes many times.
You're a fucking liar and tdongz would fuck the shit out of you.
Literally. :-X
I've never lied about anything you fat swamp beast.
The only time I lied was when I fucked your mom. She asked me if her pussy stank like rotton tuna and I said "No, of course not. It smells great."
Chaos is one of the nasty dorks here and he wonders why sensible people don't contribute much on Getbig.Sounds like some senile type of bullshit you're spewing here, have you forgotten you Alzheimers meds again?
It is one thing to post a true theory and quite another to dismiss a false one. Unless you go to failure most of the time you simply will not grow. Oh, you might grow as a beginner but after the intermediate stage you will stop. This is when being right is absolutely required.
I've never lied about anything you fat swamp beast.Well since you showed up right after my dad blew in her..........did you enoy the taste of my potential brothers and sisters?
The only time I lied was when I fucked your mom. She asked me if her pussy stank like rotton tuna and I said "No, of course not. It smells great."
Maybe if he stuck the test into his buttcheek instead of between them it would work better.
who the fuck are you? Ed mcmahon.......
BALLOONEY OF A FAT DIRTBIKE RIDING KID WHO NEVER WAS ABLE TO GAIN MUCH FROM A SHITLOAD OF AAS. TRYING TO CONVINCE HIMSELF TTHAT ASS IS NOT THE KEY ,THAT STRENGTH IS THE KEY BUT NO FRIENDS MORE AAS= MORE GAINS ADD HGHONA AND YOU HAVE MUTATION TO HIGHER DEGREE...,,, UNLESS YOU HHAVE VERY BAD GENES. UNLESS YOUR GENETICS IS TO STAY FAT AND TAKES COCKS UP IN THE ASS FOR A DEEP TISSUE MASSAGE..,, DISMISSED,,
Well, you are spot on with the statement that PROGRESSIVE OVERLOAD is the key, but the question is how to make it happen. So if one doesn't train to failure how does one know for certain to increase one's training weights? Is it only by feeling that one is ready to increase the training load? I don't know man, but in my opinion one of the components of training til failure is to allow one to know that they are indeed ready to increase their training load. For example if one does 6 to 8 reps per set and they find that they can do 10 reps with a given weight then that's a "signal" for them to increase their training weight.increase the weight as often as you can. you still use rep ranges as a signal tht your ready to move up. but you stay away from failure. when you can lift a weight 4-5 times while staying at least 2 reps shy of failure, then you are ready for probably about a 20lb weight increase in my experience, and could probably get that weight for one easy rep. then the workout after maybe 2.
increase the weight as often as you can. you still use rep ranges as a signal tht your ready to move up. but you stay away from failure. when you can lift a weight 4-5 times while staying at least 2 reps shy of failure, then you are ready for probably about a 20lb weight increase in my experience, and could probably get that weight for one easy rep. then the workout after maybe 2.
WW
Oh shit. ROFLMAO
;D
tbombz im trying to be nice, but considiring your results while being on aas for years. you're on no positioing to be giing out any sort of advice unless you want us to do to the exact opposite...its all good, your 5'5" ~150lbs and have a right to your opinion :)
increase the weight as often as you can. you still use rep ranges as a signal tht your ready to move up. but you stay away from failure. when you can lift a weight 4-5 times while staying at least 2 reps shy of failure, then you are ready for probably about a 20lb weight increase in my experience, and could probably get that weight for one easy rep. then the workout after maybe 2.
Seems to me the lads need some instruction in hypertrophy 101. What you wrote above is both dangerous and naive. Lifting heavy weights isn't great for the joints. What kind of progression is adding 20 pounds and doing 1 rep? That might work for power lifters but has no place in bodybuilding.
The flotsam here wouldn't know the correct theory because they already have their pet theories. Cleansing the brains of the simple-minded is no easy task.most of the blokes here are disagreeing with him to ???
Clearly the Op has no clue about hypertrophy and neither do most of the blokes here.
Ok, but you still didn't answer my question Vince. By the way, these ideas that I have about the methods for a naturals hyperthory are not my ideas and/or theroies, they are the ideas/theroies of Arthur Jones and Mike Mentzer, regarding volume, intensity, and frequency.
Funny how Basile likes to talk bad about cocky and confident people when he himself comes across as the most arrogant douche in this thread. Pot meet kettle.
Ok Vince, so you are saying that hyperthropy happens as the result of both training til failure and performing a high volume of sets right? I don't know man, but if I tried something like that I am certain that it would just make me smaller and weaker. I believe that Mentzer had it right when he introduced his "Ideal Routine" in his book Heavy Duty 2: Mind and Body. This routine is basically an Upper/Lower split with workouts being performed every 4 or 5 days.
Basile is spot on. If you are on drugs, you're going to grow as long as you lift something, with the people with better genetics making more gains than others who aren't so "gifted".
If you are natural, then you have to train to failure and sometimes, beyond, by way of drop sets, negatives etc. I've always trained to failure and done drop sets on most exercises, and have got great results over the years. You just have to make sure you eat and rest enough/properly in between workouts.
Genetics determines the size of your muscles, not the way you train
There are many strategies to stimulate hypertrophy. However, I believe doing many sets with the maximum resistance is the key. There is no need to do drop sets. Never reduce the resistance. Take a short rest and keep training with the same weight. Growth will follow.
Arthur Jones made a lot of sense in the old days. He influenced everyone because no one wanted to be thought stupid for training too long. I probably stopped too soon and that prevented me from growing really big. By stopping too soon I mean in the number of sets with the maximum resistance. 5, 6 or 10 sets is what is required.
So what about Mentzer's idea of regulating volume and frequency downword as one progresses in order to properly eliminate "sticking points" and to make continous and unabated progress? According to him, one should make progress and make gains every single workout, and if one doesn't make progress every single workout than this is a clear indication that something is wrong with their training routine.
From my own personal experience, every single time that I got stronger (ie training with a heavier training load) my muscles got bigger, every single time. Now, when you talk about rep speed that is indeed an important point, and I have tried controlled rep speed (3 sec up, 3 sec down) but it didn't work for me, and I madd much better progress doing fast reps.
I see your point, and as far as my fast reps were concerned, I would venture to say that they weren't incredibly fast reps ie weight throwing, since they were performed within a 6 to 8 rep max context, meaning that they were quite heavy for me. So if one lifts an 6 to 8 rep max til postive failure, then those reps can not be super fast by nature, since one will be lifting a heavyass weight. One thing that could be valid is to do the negative portion of the lift more slowly, and then explode through the positive part? There is a guy called spade121981 on youtube, and he makes some very good points regarding a slow and controlled negative coupled with a fast and explosive positive.
Here is an excellent quote from this spade fella regarding rep speed, "only the negative needs to be a little slow but you always drive the weight up quick. Banging out more reps will allow better receptor upgrade, higher blood volume, which in turn will carry a larger supply of protein and other nutrients to the muscles... hence the reason you see all top pros doing quick reps."
Use FullBody workouts only.
Use mostly compound exercises.
Keep the length of each workout within one hour.
Think outside the sets and reps regimen.
Use as strict form as possible.
Positive part of the movement slow/medium speed, eccentric part fast/medium fast without bouncing at the bottom part.
Instead concentrate on feeling the mechanical load on the muscle itself.
Stay just within point of concentric failure.Do not go all out.
Focus on creating deep muscle microtrauma.
Increase the load each and every workout.
Before starting a training period, decondition all muscles as much as possible. Relax, stay in bed.
End the trainingcycle when the progression of the mechanical load becomes too heavy to complete under strict form.
Continue with the maximum weight for continued static stretches under load, for as long as can possibly be endured.
Working out every 36 hours is optimal.
One can train through musclesoreness of previous workout(s) without hindering further muscular hypertrophy.
Do not perform cardio or other physical activities.
Eat each 3 hour period a small balanced meal,high protein, medium fat, medium in slow carb,
Before and after workout, high in fast protein and carb sources.Total daily calories just above maintenance.
Bodybuilding is a longterm commitment in order to get the results desired.
its all good, your 5'5" ~150lbs and have a right to your opinion :)
Ok , Post comparisions to this:
(http://i51.tinypic.com/95vr45.jpg)
(http://i52.tinypic.com/117qtep.jpg)
(http://i53.tinypic.com/1dyiig.jpg)
(http://i55.tinypic.com/2mnjii8.jpg)
And if you cannot even beat this then please SHUT your fucking mouth when it comes to training. OK?!?!
Ok , Post comparisions to this:
(http://i51.tinypic.com/95vr45.jpg)
(http://i52.tinypic.com/117qtep.jpg)
(http://i53.tinypic.com/1dyiig.jpg)
(http://i55.tinypic.com/2mnjii8.jpg)
And if you cannot even beat this then please SHUT your fucking mouth when it comes to training. OK?!?!
I try to help misguided and ignorant people.
Hahahahahaahaahhaaaa.... the sad thing is he CAN'T beat that and he's been on the gas for YEARS :D
Thus proving my point that Genetics rule all
look pretty good swede
As if little Swede hasn't used hormones ever. Says tbombz has poor steroid response. As opposed to Swede's response which was magnificent - so magnificent he had to buy Accutane off the black market to try to stop the horrible acne.
Ask him to deny it.
Good shoulders Swede.
Keep up the good work brother.
Doesn't change the fact that Tbombz comes off like he's a seasoned national competitor when in reality he looks like a soft, stocky guy that uses a little creatine
Haven't seen any good pics of the guy so hard to judge how much real muscle he has.
Maybe he comes off as too cock-sure of stuff. And sure, had he done a show he would most likely have a different perspective of things.
But sometimes even a person with a poor physique can know things, can be right.
Take Basile. Likes to think of himself as an expert while looking like a fat old guy with thick forearms. Like perhaps a manual laborer who never did any gym training. I happen to think he's a fool, but if I agreed that he knew what he talked about I'd look past the physique.
Sometimes people with great physiques know very little about training, and even less how to help someone else, someone with poor genetics.
Judge the info itself, judge it based on what you've seen, experienced, etc.
I myself would take training tips from this guy. And I'm 2-3 times as strong as him, and a lot heavier than he ever was.
I don't take training tips from anyone, training is simple once you get the general concept down, which you can do in a couple of months if you are not an idiot.
Work hard in the gym, make sure you get enough rest....if you have the genes for it something will happen
end of story
I don't take training tips from anyone, training is simple once you get the general concept down, which you can do in a couple of months if you are not an idiot.
Work hard in the gym, make sure you get enough rest....if you have the genes for it something will happen
end of story
I posted on Lyle Macdonald's forum in the past. He refused to debate hypertrophy with me. So what if he is intelligent. He wasn't a bodybuilder of note and never distilled what hypertrophy was all about.
He did distill it. I agree with what he's said, that we know what makes a muscle grow, it's just minutiae and mapping of exact pathways that's left. None of which will really change how we approach training. He debated you plenty, but since you talk in circles and never make a definitive statement it's almost impossible to have any kind of debate.
Reason Lyle never looked like a bb wasn't because he didn't know how to train. He didn't want to take drugs like you did, for whatever reason, and his genetics just suck. Even from that t-shirt pic you can see how horrible his arm muscle insertions are.
Experience is valuable no doubt. But useful info can come from many places. Dan Duchaine pioneered bodybuilding drug use but he never made the drugs work for himself. He looked like shit.
btw, olympic weightlifters dont train to fialure.
van nothing special happens at failure you know this, youve said it before. but in reality, somethign does happen at failure, and its the opposite of special, its muscle damage and a buildup of lactic acid/other bad shit that interferes with muscle growth, decreases strength, etc.
whats the most important factor for hypertrophy? me and you both know its loa.d going to failure does nothing. higher reps,pumping the muscle can increase glycogen, etc.
dont get into great bodybuilders who trained pump style. those guys were on boat loads of drugs had great genetics and even still they may not have lifted heavy, but they had the ability to lift heavy when they wanted to. strong muscle=big muscle.
load=#1 importanmt factor.
2 important factor= frequency, diet,
and ofc ourse results are always much better on hormones
You don't need tips on training as you have great genetics and are on drugs. You'll grow doing anything. :D
And it would be a mistake for a natural twink to ask you anything training related. You'd kill his enthusiasm saying, "you've been training for 2 months and nothing's happened... it'll never happen. Go do something else". :D
But yeah, genetics is everything. And if you want to look like a bodybuilder you'll need drugs as well. Twinks such as myself can get pretty strong though, and there's lots of tricks to employ if that's what you want (strength).
Ok , Post comparisions to this:sure, here, this are from when i was 17 and natty.. so the comparison is fair.. :)
(http://i51.tinypic.com/95vr45.jpg)
(http://i52.tinypic.com/117qtep.jpg)
(http://i53.tinypic.com/1dyiig.jpg)
(http://i55.tinypic.com/2mnjii8.jpg)
And if you cannot even beat this then please SHUT your fucking mouth when it comes to training. OK?!?!
sure, here, this are from when i was 17 and natty.. so the comparison is fair.. :)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=106479.0;attach=118186)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=120003.0;attach=136620)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=120003.0;attach=135758)
:-*
actually he is much thicker than you....but then again he's only 19 inches tall.look at the back double bi comparison. in his other pic, like the one he is flexing his arm from the side, its all angle. hes got no size what so ever
At bbing contests in Sweden they use him as the trophy...the audience loves it.
look at the back double bi comparison. in his other pic, like the one he is flexing his arm from the side, its all angle. hes got no size what so ever
he's a grown (Hahahahaahaa :D) man on steroids. and you still hold your ownSwedes a juicer? Nahhh....
Swedes a juicer? Nahhh....
actually the BDB is the one shot where he's not using trick angles....I agree about the rest though.thats what i was saying. look at the back double bi pic and compare it to mine. cuz the other ones are all angle.
But he carries more muscle than you in those shots. which is fine being that you are 17 in them and he's a grown (Hahahahaahaa :D) man on steroids. and you still hold your own
Yes load is the main factor. But like I said in another thread, whether going to failure is good or bad depends on the exercise. Today I did some triceps and was thinking of this. I know from experience that I get no training effect from pushdowns if I stop 2-3 reps from failure. It's just not taxing enough, muscularly or neurally. I don't get stronger. Stopping 2-3 reps shy of failure would be enough if de-trained but after 2-3 workouts I have to push harder. On the other hand, going to absolute failure on squats for example may kill all strength progression for weeks.
Once your arms are about 17 1/2 inches the pressdowns no longer stimulate hypertrophy.I quit reading right here cause it's quite obvious you are a dolt.
I quit reading right here cause it's quite obvious you are a dolt.;D x2
Once your arms are about 17 1/2 inches the pressdowns no longer stimulate hypertrophy. This is where experience is needed. You have to do something else. The best exercises are known but not universally. So many guys look at magazines or copy what others do in the gym. I swear these things are embraced like viruses. It takes experience and scientific training to get rid of ineffective exercises. You also have to get rid of dangerous exercises and ones that don't benefit bodybuilders like deadlifts. Most muscleheads are so stubborn and thick that they literally wouldn't see the truth if it hit them over the head. That is how ingrained theories and methods are in most people who lift weights. They believe things like religious beliefs. When this occurs reason and logic go out the window never to return. They insist on using free weights and all manner of other rubbish. They consume pointless amounts of expensive protein. They argue until the cows come home but are not big and never will be. When all fails they take drugs. When that fails they take more drugs. When they reach plateaus they insist it is all genetics. Ah, the folly of lifting weights. What a complete waste of time to debate this topic with most people.
;D x2WTF like there's some magic number your body recognizes and shut off the acceptance of an exercise.
WTF like there's some magic number your body recognizes and shut off the acceptance of an exercise.
Geez, glad he didn't post his theories on hypertrophy......I'll be sure to steer clear of that crap.
I would have to say that's in the running for "stupidest thing I've ever read on Getbig"Definitely top ten material.......but at the moment I can't think of anything stupider. ;D
Definitely top ten material.......but at the moment I can't think of anything stupider. ;D
The specifics of hypertrophy stimulation are rather simple but the application of the technology filled with complications and difficulties. When movement is involved joints don't stay where they are supposed to stay and this phenomenon gets worse the heavier the resistance. Triceps should be trained when in a stretched position and the upper arms should be restricted from moving outward or upward. Even on proper equipment people cheat. They use too much weight so form disappears and the effectiveness with it. You need a good brain to get big. If you lack one with sufficient experience then there is little hope you will succeed. You can recruit someone with more experience but there are no guarantees in bodybuilding. You can think you are doing the same thing but might miss the mark in one way or another.
Anyone with deep experience wouldn't laugh at the details I have posted. Knuckleheads and wannabes are oblivious so see humour instead of being enlightened.
So many clueless guys here. Predictable but sad just the same. Bodybuilders as a group are stupid. No doubt about that and confirmed hourly on Getbig.
Occasionally some clueless guys get quite big. A mystery but it happens. Many who get big cannot articulate a theory of hypertrophy.
Occasionally some clueless guys get quite big. A mystery but it happens. Many who get big cannot articulate a theory of hypertrophy.
I've articulated my theory many times :
Genetics trump all....train hard, give it 100% in the gym and allow ample time for recuperation...what "training protocol" you employ is really academic.
Your muscles will grow if you are pre-disposed to being muscular. If not.......well :P
What kind of theory is that? No detail at all. What we need is a theory that will make everyone grow. You sound like a natural gainer so didn't have to think much about what to do.
What kind of theory is that? No detail at all. What we need is a theory that will make everyone grow. You sound like a natural gainer so didn't have to think much about what to do.
I swear some of of the biggest trolls I've ever seen are having a riot in this thread.
if font = navy blue;D
: scroll past
From what I get out of Vince's statements here on this thread, his theroy of hyperthropy is a hybrid of GVT (German Volume Training) and HIT (High Intensity Training) basically something like 10 working sets of the same exercise with the same weight will all sets taken til failure to be performed every 3rd day. Also, it seems to be with higher reps per set, say from 15 to 25.
damn this is some encouraging news
It is quite amazing how so many think like Jaime but his advice amounts to zero information. How is one to know what feels right? What is proper rest? What is hard training? What is this crap about finding what works for you? That is nothing more than long term trial and error, the exact opposite of what we are trying to find. What are we supposed to listen to in our bodies about poor results?
For an intelligently written post the advice is empty. That is the opposite of science.
Some exercises are more effective than others. Not just for one person but for everyone. Use the effective, but safe exercises. Don't do deadlifts. Consider machine training and give up the silly free weights. Try to stimulate growth instead of doing what knuckleheads do.
Lovemonkey is typical of Getbiggers who have no clue about how to appreciate a new training theory. That is okay because he wasn't going to accept anything different and will continue getting meagre or no results from what he does just like so many others out there.
The key feedback mechanism is DOMS. If you train hard and are not sore for a few days afterwards you didn't train right. Go back and do something different. That is what guides your training. If you do the protocols as I suggest and get very sore you will grow rapidly. Keep the muscle sore by training every third day. Make sure you do several warm up sets with higher reps to avoid injuries. Eat enough so that you weigh a bit more before you train again. If you don't weigh more then don't train. Target one or two muscles. You cannot get your whole body sore. I don't recommend doing that. Just forget about doing so many body parts.
There isn't a training regime that would suit everyone as everbody responds differently, hence you finding out what you respond best to.
What typical bullshit you guys believe. Knucklehead soup is what your brains are. If what you say is true then stop arguing about training. Just find what works for you and good luck.
Most guys here have no clue at all about hypertrophy theory. None. Zip. Zero. A total waste of time to relate to these pumpkinheads.
I don't see what you are arguing about Vince. There is a huge genetic variance in the response to all of the different factors involved in bodybuilding.
I train by feel, i do what feels best for my body. No need for theorycraft.
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Good for you. That is not science. Guess you don't comprehend what this thread is all about. That is why I get frustrated with the flotsam. I keep hoping but again.......
We know almost nothing about hypertrophy and genetics yet every knucklehead uses this excuse. What is your genetic endowment re muscle size? How would you know?
Good for you. That is not science. Guess you don't comprehend what this thread is all about. That is why I get frustrated with the flotsam. I keep hoping but again.......
Ray Mentzer stayed at my place for several months. We got to learn about Heavy Duty and how to do it right. Some gained and some didn't. Seemed to me somewhat dangerous as strength increases.
.
this thread makes 10 pages by the end of next week
....we're almost there
thanks for trolling it up, vince
Every time I read a Basile post, it plays like the male computer generated voice Fred has been using on the stern show.Is it a whiny, nasaly voice with heavy breaths in between words and what sounds like a little drool building up around the bottom lip?
Is it a whiny, nasaly voice with heavy breaths in between words and what sounds like a little drool building up around the bottom lip?
If so, that's what I would imagine Basshole would sound also.
The rabble here are ubiquitous.
Abominable is more like it. That so many write like this means they feel confident others will think they are clever. What lame and witless dorks many are.
Isn't it amazing that the flotsam have access to some people with relatively vast experience but they dismiss it. I find that incredible. Why waste years doing the same thing when better methods are available? Oh, I forgot, all Getbiggers are experts and world authorities on bodybuilding and training.
Nope, the knuckleheads here default to believing drugs are the go and I find that totally unwarranted and sad. To hell with the drugs.
I tore a biceps doing stupid deadlifts so I can't train arms as hard as I would like. Without that injury I would be motivated to show you fellows. I still haven't found anyone willing to try extended, extreme training protocols to gain two inches in one month on arms. It is possible.
Yes load is the main factor. But like I said in another thread, whether going to failure is good or bad depends on the exercise.
bull. if going to failure is ever advantagous, which it may be every now and then, it would apply to every muscle, not selectively.
Today I did some triceps and was thinking of this. I know from experience that I get no training effect from pushdowns if I stop 2-3 reps from failure. It's just not taxing enough, muscularly or neurally. I don't get stronger.
you dont get stronger because you didnt lift heavy enough, not because you stopped shy of failure. use a weight that you would fail at 4-5 reps, and just do a few sets of 2-3. youll get bigger and stronger.
Stopping 2-3 reps shy of failure would be enough if de-trained but after 2-3 workouts I have to push harder.
going to failure doesnt mean your pushing harder. i dont know why so many people correlate failure training with intensity. the two are not tied together.
On the other hand, going to absolute failure on squats for example may kill all strength progression for weeks.
Tbombz and Jaime are now officially Getbig fools. They believe total rubbish. When you enlighten them they retreat into pet beliefs and false theories. No one can help or save them because they are too thick to benefit from instruction.
Tbombz and Jaime are now officially Getbig fools. They believe total rubbish. When you enlighten them they retreat into pet beliefs and false theories. No one can help or save them because they are too thick to benefit from instruction.dude if your theory about muscle soreness was all there was to know i would already be mr olympia. nobody can out train me. my first several years of training i followed the basic advice to lift untill i was completely dead, tons of sets to failure, muscles wouldnt work right for days, usually could not do any kind of physical activity after i trained.
Yes listening to your own body is foolishness in the extreme... ???
Your theories are laughable.
dude if your theory about muscle soreness was all there was to know i would already be mr olympia. nobody can out train me. my first several years of training i followed the basic advice to lift untill i was completely dead, tons of sets to failure, muscles wouldnt work right for days, usually could not do any kind of physical activity after i trained.
hard work is not the answer.
smart work is.
What is this 'listening to your body' concept. Please enlighten us.
I tore a biceps doing stupid deadlifts so I can't train arms as hard as I would like. Without that injury I would be motivated to show you fellows. I still haven't found anyone willing to try extended, extreme training protocols to gain two inches in one month on arms. It is possible.
You = teh dumb
How do you know what the smartest programs are? You start with a theory and go from there. When you stop making gains you have to modify your theory. After decades training you should have a method that causes rapid, continuous growth. If not, then your theories aren't as good as you think they are.thats what this thread is about. the evolution of my personal hypertrophy theory. hypertrophy, myofibral hypertorphy not just sarcoplasmic, is directly related to muscle strength. fact. taking this into consideration, i have tried various methods to increase strength as rapidly as possible. i stumbled upon this method of training, sub failure training, last year. its taken me a while to become confident and comfortable with it. i now come to find out this way of training is exactly how olympic powerlifters lift. i still have much to learn, but this bit of knowledge about stimulation as opposed to annihilation has been very helpful to me over the past several months.
Still waiting on Vince's philosophy...Perhaps he can outlay his five step plan to 2 inches on arms in a month.. ::)
Why should I help jokers like you? My theories are on the internet. Go find them and distill the essence of what I propose.
You write well, Jaime, so probably are not a knucklehead but your beliefs are rather naive and lacking content.
Okay, you are now talking about hypertrophy theories which can be discussed.
The pursuit of strength has a limit re hypertrophy training. It isn't the goal. Large muscles are. While training for strength will increase muscle size it doesn't always do so. That is the problem. Bigger muscles are stronger but the most important thing is being able to do many sets with a maximum resistance. This is what big muscles are good at. Do you comprehend this? It is crucial.
When you look at huge bodybuilders you would expect them to be able to throw the shot put out of the stadium. What do we find? They are okay but their big muscles, no matter how strong, are not that good for throwing the shot. Same thing goes for arm wrestling. You would think the guys with the biggest arms would win. John Brzenk proved everyone wrong.
There was a powerlifter called Mike McDonald who could bench somewhere around 600 pounds and he had about 16 1/2 inch arms. How come that strength didn't build his arms larger?
I wonder where intuitive training sits in hypertrophy theory? Nowhere and for good reason. What possible intuition can one have about when to train and how hard? Seems to me a method that works for all muscles is what we should be aiming at. Find the universal principles that stimulate hypertrophy and go from there improvising along the way to sustain growth. It isn't easy and that is why few obtain maximum hypertrophy or even closely approach any such thing.
The right theory and method will be constant. Oh, one can use novelty as a stimulus but then it must be used regularly to have value. When that happens it stops being novelty so that can't be the method.
Someone who is constantly fluctuating implies no method whatever. That is the complete opposite of what I propose. Focused intensity is used by all successful bodybuilders.
It's extremely easy, knowing what you body is telling you that is. You seek to complicate simplistic processes, Johnny summarised perfectly my opinions on the matter.
Just how effective would the training regime of a sprinter be to a marathon runner, with their overabundance of slow twitch muscle fibres? No value at all would be the answer.
Furthermore, genetics determine how much of particular muscle type a persons body contains-
Not everyone has the same amount of Muscle type I, IIa and IIb muscles and each of those muscle groups respond best to different types of times under tension so you would have to be a fucking idiot to argue that one type of training.
You can't train a person with a good amount of Type I muscle with lifts that have a total TUT of 60-120 seconds per set and vice versa
seriously, get your head out of your ass if you believe in a absolute best way
btw, I'm not a google warrior so I'm probably not gonna have a good follow up argument to all the other google warriors on here. I"m sorry- I tend to type stuff from memory
Furthermore, genetics determine how much of particular muscle type a persons body contains-
Not everyone has the same amount of Muscle type I, IIa and IIb muscles and each of those muscle groups respond best to different types of times under tension so you would have to be a fucking idiot to argue that one type of training.
You can't train a person with a good amount of Type I muscle with lifts that have a total TUT of 60-120 seconds per set and vice versa
seriously, get your head out of your ass if you believe in a absolute best way
btw, I'm not a google warrior so I'm probably not gonna have a good follow up argument to all the other google warriors on here. I"m sorry- I tend to type stuff from memory
Hahaha, we get it, you being a trainer is slightly more than a cover for other exploits. :D
Exactly. Genetics...Everybody's muscles are different in their construction, so it is pretty fucking obvious that there isn't a single philosophy for all.
thats what this thread is about. the evolution of my personal hypertrophy theory. hypertrophy, myofibral hypertorphy not just sarcoplasmic, is directly related to muscle strength. fact. taking this into consideration, i have tried various methods to increase strength as rapidly as possible. i stumbled upon this method of training, sub failure training, last year. its taken me a while to become confident and comfortable with it. i now come to find out this way of training is exactly how olympic powerlifters lift. i still have much to learn, but this bit of knowledge about stimulation as opposed to annihilation has been very helpful to me over the past several months.
I hate to be the wet blanket here but any intelligent trainer knows that there is no absolutes in terms of what works
I mean, isn't that what tbombz and that old dude arguing about- what is the key to training success?
of course this point will be ignored but fact of the matter is that arguing about "absolutes" is unrealistic. Remember this- i'm the actual American College of Sports Medicine certified trainer in this thread so you can all kiss my ass
ps fuck off
Furthermore, genetics determine how much of particular muscle type a persons body contains-
Not everyone has the same amount of Muscle type I, IIa and IIb muscles and each of those muscle groups respond best to different types of times under tension so you would have to be a fucking idiot to argue that one type of training.
You can't train a person with a good amount of Type I muscle with lifts that have a total TUT of 60-120 seconds per set and vice versa
seriously, get your head out of your ass if you believe in a absolute best way
btw, I'm not a google warrior so I'm probably not gonna have a good follow up argument to all the other google warriors on here. I"m sorry- I tend to type stuff from memory
I agree that you can't destroy your muscles every workout. But here's the thing:its not that you misunderstood my theory, its that youve got it completely backwards. its not "stronger=bigger muscles" its = &guy MUSCLES= STRONGER MUSCLES ;)
IF STRONGER = MORE MUSCLES THAN MR. OLYMPIA WOULD BE THE STRONGEST MAN ON THE FUCKING PLANET
I know you're going to claim I misunderstand your theory, but you're wrong...
I'm just following it to it's illogical conclusion
its not that you misunderstood my theory, its that youve got it completely backwards. its not "stronger=bigger muscles" its = BIGGER MUSCLES= STRONGER MUSCLES ;)
your wrong. it may vary from person to person, but there is indeed one "best" way to grow large muscles, it just has not been quantified and verified as of yet.
Half right. Doing maximum heavy deadlifts is dumb and dangerous.??? What is "maximum heavy deadlifts"?
Finally the penny has dropped for some here. Strength is not the goal of bodybuilders but of course they use progression in their training. There comes a point where adding more resistance is dangerous. So top guys have to find other ways to keep growing. Just about everyone uses many, many sets with significant resistance to grow. That is their method. It is universal. So don't say there is no method that everyone uses. It is a fact.Translation: More resistance is dangerous. Significant resistance is universal. There is no method. It is a fact.
??? What is "maximum heavy deadlifts"?
thats what this thread is about. the evolution of my personal hypertrophy theory. hypertrophy, myofibral hypertorphy not just sarcoplasmic, is directly related to muscle strength. fact. taking this into consideration, i have tried various methods to increase strength as rapidly as possible. i stumbled upon this method of training, sub failure training, last year. its taken me a while to become confident and comfortable with it. i now come to find out this way of training is exactly how olympic powerlifters lift. i still have much to learn, but this bit of knowledge about stimulation as opposed to annihilation has been very helpful to me over the past several months.
Translation: More resistance is dangerous. Significant resistance is universal. There is no method. It is a fact.
/are you an idiot/ are you hammered!?
Hasn't anyone punched yourWhat a windbag. ::)semantic, critical, logicalnose yet?
What a windbag. ::)
Seriously....You would think at his age he would be more than willing to have a serious give-and-take discussion about training.
But he's a troll....he changes the goalposts...Calls people stupid when they make a completely valid point.....Has the usual Superoirity complex and pats himself on the back for no reason.
All the typical Troll Tricks....at what...70 fucking years old?
Listen, folks, and other Getbiggers, otherwise collectively best described as Flotsam. Dr Chimps has contributed zero knowledge to hypertrophy theory. We don't even know if he goes to a gym or does pushups in his bedroom. So I take exception to his smart remarks when he has nothing to say re content in anything but trivial threads. He corrects spelling and grammar like a college professor but enlightens no one when it comes to exercise. If there is a troll then this smartass comes close. Right up there with Goatboy.
Can you imagine how disappointing it is to confront resident heroes who all believe empty platitudes about training? Most of what they say can be summed up by saying 'do what works for you'! What kind of advice is this? You are telling others that there are no effective methods. Just experiment and when something works do that. That is trial and error that thousands have already endured and now collectively we should know exactly what to do to make large muscles even larger. Unfortunately that is precisely what most here don't know. So they embrace sentiments and ideas that support their frustration instead of welcoming true theories that will generate unbelievably rapid results. The more many here read the more confused they get and the more they rely on ubiquitous bullshit excuses that explain nothing.
How a messenger bringing good news should be stoned is a mystery. Cast out those who think. It is better to remain ignorant as long as everyone is equally ignorant that you associate with. It is all drugs and genetics, anyway, so there is really no point in working out naturally and even sweating.
So you are saying that there is a universal method that will work for ANYBODY and get them big ?
Sum it up in two sentences, just the basic principle
Lift weights.
Put them down.
Can you imagine how disappointing it is to confront resident heroes who all believe empty platitudes about training? Most of what they say can be summed up by saying 'do what works for you'! What kind of advice is this? You are telling others that there are no effective methods. Just experiment and when something works do that. That is trial and error that thousands have already endured and now collectively we should know exactly what to do to make large muscles even larger.[/color]
Let me address the issue of relative knowledge of bodybuilding. Suppose a novice approaches you and asks for your help because he knows you have a lot of experience. Would you have any trouble directing him? If he insisted that you personally train him would you be lost about what to do? Of course not. We would all feel confident that we would be helping this person as well as any personal trainer could and maybe better.
The second scenario draws the line between having some experience and knowing exactly what we are talking about. An exercise scientist approaches you about an important experiment they want to do re muscular hypertrophy. They want you to help them out by disclosing the latest scientific theory about hypertrophy and the practical way the champions go about training. Who here would be confident that they have enough knowledge to relate to these scientists? How many know the language they use in the latest physiological research about muscles and processes? I imagine most of us would not at feel confident and thus would have to accept we are not authorities and perhaps not even experts in our field. No one would be dense enough to suggest that the main thing we learned was to listen to our bodies and do what works best for us!
Let me address the issue of relative knowledge of bodybuilding. Suppose a novice approaches you and asks for your help because he knows you have a lot of experience. Would you have any trouble directing him? If he insisted that you personally train him would you be lost about what to do? Of course not. We would all feel confident that we would be helping this person as well as any personal trainer could and maybe better.
The second scenario draws the line between having some experience and knowing exactly what we are talking about. An exercise scientist approaches you about an important experiment they want to do re muscular hypertrophy. They want you to help them out by disclosing the latest scientific theory about hypertrophy and the practical way the champions go about training. Who here would be confident that they have enough knowledge to relate to these scientists? How many know the language they use in the latest physiological research about muscles and processes? I imagine most of us would not at feel confident and thus would have to accept we are not authorities and perhaps not even experts in our field. No one would be dense enough to suggest that the main thing we learned was to listen to our bodies and do what works best for us!
[Dr. Chimps] corrects spelling and grammar like a college professor but enlightens no one when it comes to exercise.You fucking pompous hypocrite.
That's exactly what i would say.
I could dress it up and stretch it to three paragraphs...but that sums it up.
Like i said....after you have learned the basic tenets of resistance training, ie What exercise does what, progressive overload, recuperation, negatives, sets, rep tempo, splitting up your body...etc, the rest will depend on your genetics.
There is no universal, surefire way to get big....but at the same time if you are training hard and eating right...almost every "method' will work if you have the genetics.....barring anything stupid of course
So you are saying that there is a universal method that will work for ANYBODY and get them big ?
Sum it up in two sentences, just the basic principle
I found this article with some interesting info:
Training to Muscle failure
November 2nd, 2007 by Paul Johnson
Whether or not training a set to muscle failure is better (or even necessary) for muscle growth, is a age old debate in bodybuilding. Muscular failure means doing reps in a set, until you can no longer lift the weight with proper form through the full range of motion.
Why is this last rep so important to discuss?
It may only seem like just another rep that happens to be the last in a set, but bodybuilders and scientist have viewed the last rep to failure as distinctly different from the other reps. Bodybuilders see it as giving it “your all” and fatiguing the muscle completely. Some high intensity workout programs, believe that you must go to failure for maximum muscle and strength gains.
Training to failure research studies:
To see why scientist see this rep differently, let’s look at some research.
A study published (J Appl Physiol. 2006 May;100(5):1647-56. Epub 2006 Jan 12.) did a 11 week resistance training program of failure vs nonfailure groups. Immediately after the 11th week all groups did the same workout, to see the effects each previous training led. Both groups had similiar increases in one rep max. During the 2nd phase of the study, there was an increase in muscular endurance in the failure group and power in the nonfailure group. The failure group had lower IGF-1 levels (important anabolic hormone for muscle growth), while the nonfailure group had lower resting levels of cortisol and higher testosterone levels.
A study published in (J Strength Cond Res. 2005 May;19(2):382-8) compared failure to nonfailure in 26 basketball players. The failure group did 4 sets of 6 repetitions every 260 seconds, whereas the nonfailure 8 sets of 3 repetitions every 113. Results showed that the failure group had significant strength increases over the non-failure group. One problem I have with this study is, time under tension differences between the sets. The failure group is doing 6 reps in a set instead of 3 reps. Even though the weight is the same and the time is lessened to increase intensity, 3 reps per set is not going to be the same stimulus.
A few months ago JM Willardson, who has published some important studies in excercise science, wrote a research note recently in (J Strength Cond Res. 2007 May;21(2):628-31.) He acknowledged that there isn’t enough conclusive evidence yet, whether sets should be done to failure or not. However, willardson recommended advanced lifters use training failure to break past plateaus, due to increased activation of motor units and the hormonal response. He also didn’t recommend it long term due to overtraining and risk of injury.
http://www.bodybuildingweb.net/blog/training-to-muscle-failure/ (http://www.bodybuildingweb.net/blog/training-to-muscle-failure/)
Groink, shake your head hard and clear out the debris. You are typical of muscleheads who think they know things but are filled with the flotsam and jetsam of discussion board nonsense and collected jargon, false ideas and beliefs embraced by the dumbbell community. You will think you know what you are talking about and others will agree with you because they too are denser than cast iron. Hard to believe so many know so little about something that isn't rocket science.
I will admit that I'm tempted to give it a run, but... I'm rather convinced that it would quickly lead to a state of gross overtraining, and in fact the arm muscles would get smaller and weaker following this particular protocol. Of course I'm talking with regards to natural trainers.
Here you are getting free advice and you dismiss it because of your beliefs. If you are not an expert how do you know what to accept and what to reject? Surely if you are not growing rapidly you have to rethink what you are doing and discard or change your beliefs. You miss the main part of what I do. No matter what you do re sets and reps IF the muscle isn't quite sore the next day then you didn't do enough or didn't do the right exercise or hard enough or all three. You can't read part of what I write and discard other essential parts. It is necessary for soreness to develop the next day and remain sore for several days. This won't be easy to do with biceps so that is a real problem for just about everyone. However, those who succeed in making both biceps and triceps sore will probably grow more than 1/10 of an inch from that workout. That is over 1 inch in the month from 10 workouts.STFU Vince my muscles never get sore the next day, they get sore 2 days after my workout. I hope this helps
Don't worry about overtraining because that doesn't apply to DOMS training. Just work arms for a month for your upper body. Nothing else. This is important. I am talking about natural trainees as well.
If I knew how big you guys were and your level of development I could factor that in and give you more specific information about particular exercises.
STFU Vince my muscles never get sore the next day, they get sore 2 days after my workout. I hope this helps
Yes.
Though we are unique in our own way but as a living organism we are identical. Carbon base life form, heart, lungs, breath oxygen, process carbs, fats, proteins... It only differs in matters of degree and specificity. The general principles apply to everyone. They are universal. If you get a bacterial infection an antibiotic will kill the bacteria. What specific type of antibiotic, dose and frequency will vary and the response will also vary. I, for example, am allergic to Penicillin, one of the most common and effective antibiotics in use when I was a kid but potentially lethal for me. I had to use Tretracycline. But the same universal principle of using an antibiotic still applied to me. It was only the specifics that differed.
Steroids will have an anabolic effect on everyone, the degree of the effect will vary. Overloading a muscle will stimulate an adaptive response. The degree of that response will vary but the general principle of overload applies to everyone. Squats may be an ideal movement for some but a disaster for someone 6'10". But the same general principle of overloading the muscle using that plane of movement is necessary for quads.
If general principles regarding the human body didn't apply to everybody the field and science of medicine simply could not exist.
There does exists universal principles that optimizes muscle hypertrophy. What they are exactly I don't know. Science seems to have little interest in fully exploring this. It is not even conclusive what actually happens that stimulate a muscle to grow. This idea of micro tears causing an over adaptation has never been proven. Hell, I've had several muscle tears that went far beyond these micro tears with visible bruising and no small amount of pain. It did nothing to stimulate muscle growth.
I have a question Gronik, when you cut back on your training intensity and started growing again, did your training weights increase?
No I decreased the weight and did more reps....I don't think high weight /low rep is optimal for BBing.
It's an ego thing
I want to believe, I really do.
But I don't, sorry.
More test = more muscle.
my friends, they key to making progress every workout, to getting as big as possible, as strong as possible, is to never EVER cause significant muscle damage. this means staying at least 2-3 reps shy of failure on EVERY set. even when youve already done several heavy sets and you would hit failure by doing 3-5 reps , you need to stop at 1-3 reps (just an example). never ever cause muscle damage. when you damage the muscle, your body has to repair that damage, and cant focus on building new muscle tissue. strength POTENTIAL and muscle size are directly correlated. the more muscle you have the moe weight you can lift. the more glycogen and water you have in the muscle the more rep capacity you have. if you want to get big and strong, you need to lift heavy heavy heavy. good form. stimulate the muscle to add new muscle cells so you can lift more weight. BUT STAY AWAY FROM FAILURE. you can add some extra size by throwing in higher reps, but only to a degree. you cant add any significant muscle tissue without progressive overload, all you do by increasing reps is increase stamina/rep capacity/glycogen/water levels.
discuss
Allright Gronik, so you decreased the weight and increased the reps yes? Well, that still doesn't answer my question actually. So let me be a little more exact. I don't know how many reps that you mean by "higher reps" but for the sake of simplicity lets say you mean 15 reps. Ok, so the question is... Did your 15 rep, or whatever reps you use, max go up?
bull. if going to failure is ever advantagous, which it may be every now and then, it would apply to every muscle, not selectively.
Good points Van, but what about decreasing training frequency as one gets stronger, in order to enable one to keep progressing?
LOL....you say "yes" and conclude by saying "What they are exactly i don't know"
And Basile applauds......this place is a fucking joke.
Stop beating around the bush and tell us about the theories you believe in for hypertrophy.
Well, if you insist.
testosterona
equipona
trenbolona
masterona
ghona
You seem to miss the point. There does exist a universal principle in regard to the human body that applies to everyone. And this is not limited to just bodybuilding. Once we find a cure for cancer it will cure everyone because we are biologically identical varying only in specifics. But in bodybuilding, like cancer, we haven't found the exact prescription.
Is it clear now?
Looks like we need to bring Mike Mentzer and Arthur Jones back to straighten this shit out. 8)
They didn't know either :DExcellent point, Genes rule throw in the roids you got your Mr O's.
Mentzer was juiced to the gills.....he would grow flying a kite or sucking on a penis
Excellent point, Genes rule throw in the roids you got your Mr O's.
Yes....you don't know either. Very clear
Allright, fair enough. So what I'm trying to say is this: Your muscles got bigger because you were able to train with heavier training loads. I'm not talking about a 1 rep max, I'm talking specifically about an 8 rep max, 10 rep max, 15 rep max. So it comes down to something like this: If one makes their biceps bigger, than their bicep training loads MUST INCREASE. Again a 10 rep max for example. So what is one supposed to go to get bigger biceps? Train with lesser and lesser training loads?
You seem to miss the point. There does exist a universal principle in regard to the human body that applies to everyone. And this is not limited to just bodybuilding. Once we find a cure for cancer it will cure everyone because we are biologically identical varying only in specifics. But in bodybuilding, like cancer, we haven't found the exact prescription.
Is it clear now?
All this talk about drug use ignores the fact that you still don't have a proper theory about training. What is the best rep range? Where should you work out, what time of the day, and what kind of comfortable clothing works best. These days I see people at the gym wearing all kinds of ridiculous outfits that may or may not aid their training. Has any of this apparel been tested or put through any kind of rigorous study? Its like the blind is leading the blind and the one eyed king hasn't even shown up for work.Are you saying that apparel is a key to muscular development? I agree with the rest but apparel I dont think is a key explain further.
All this talk about drug use ignores the fact that you still don't have a proper theory about training. What is the best rep range? Where should you work out, what time of the day, and what kind of comfortable clothing works best. These days I see people at the gym wearing all kinds of ridiculous outfits that may or may not aid their training. Has any of this apparel been tested or put through any kind of rigorous study? Its like the blind is leading the blind and the one eyed king hasn't even shown up for work.
Are you saying that apparel is a key to muscular development? I agree with the rest but apparel I dont think is a key explain further.
Who gives a fuck. I train hard i grow, end of story. You sit there talking about this shit like it is the theory of relativity or something lol.
I think you are trolling when you start making comments like highlighted. Most ridiculous thing that i have read on this forum hahahaha.
LOL the two of you have been trolled.
Stimulate growth with the least amount of work. Warm up, train to failure, leave more of the body's limited recovery ability to actually building the mountain on top, rather than attempting to fill in the damage done by merely the exhaustive effects of the training. Mentzer had it right.X2.
LOL the two of you have been trolled.Damn I'm outing myself right now. ;D
One of my favorite Mentzer quotes goes something like this, "More is not better and less is not better, but... PRECISE IS BEST" He was refering to amount of exercise by the way. In my humble opinion Vince's training protocol would make any natural trainer get smaller and weaker. Sorry Vince, but your theroy would lead to gross overtraining for the vast majority of natural trainers.
One of my favorite Mentzer quotes goes something like this, "More is not better and less is not better, but... PRECISE IS BEST" He was refering to amount of exercise by the way. In my humble opinion Vince's training protocol would make any natural trainer get smaller and weaker. Sorry Vince, but your theroy would lead to gross overtraining for the vast majority of natural trainers.
You're right PJim, Jones got the ball rolling, but Mentzer perfected the whole HIT theroy/protocol. Mentzer kept decreasing volume and frequency until he got it right. The quote of Mentzer that really pisses me off and makes me furious is when he says something to the effect that "each and every workout should be a spectacular success" Meaning that strength and performance should get better and better. By the way there's a guy on youtube who goes by the handle of "buybulkwhey" and he says that he gained 15 pounds and went down 2% points of bodyfat within a 3 week time period.
You posed the question whether one believes that a universal principle exist that will stimulate hypertrophy not whether or not me, Vince, or anybody else knows exactly what it is.
Two different things entirely.
Basile, I disagree on the importance of the pump.
Ah, ha, I am debating with an HD devotee. Well, if you believe most of what Mentzer and Jones wrote then that you will reject what I propose. A pity both were mistaken about bodybuilding. It really is because I would prefer to do less.
In 1969 I went to train at Doug Hepburn's place. He had a super home training apparatus that he invented and had a larger personal unit for himself. I agreed to give it a go and he told me what to do. Would you believe he got me to do 20 X 5 maximum sets for biceps and triceps. It had concentric resistance only but he made sure I could complete only 5 reps. My arms grew 1/2 inch in two weeks training twice a week. I stopped when he lent his machine to someone for a promotion or something. I abandoned the 20 set protocol because of what Jones was advocating at the time. If we add eccentric resistance then perhaps 10 maximum sets might have sufficed? I never did debate hypertrophy with Doug so missed a good opportunity to find out why he recommended what he did. He was the first person to naturally bench press over 500 pounds and did that in the early fifties. Doug probably was more correct than Arthur Jones about the requirements of hypertrophy.
Arthur argued about intensity so I combined what he said with Larry Scott's prescription that you train until a maximum pump is obtained. I was able to achieve that by the 7th set including warmups. That wasn't anywhere near enough maximum sets. I might have done one or two in an accending set. I totally missed what Hepburn prescribed. Intensity is a factor and should be included but volume is much more important.
Not true. I am arguing that inducing DOMS in a target muscle using many maximum sets of about 10 to 15 reps will cause rapid hypertrophy if sustained over several weeks. This should be true for everyone who tries it as long as they are heavier in bodyweight each training day. Rapid strength increases will be a concomitant of this approach. This isn't guesswork but a fact. Some exercise scientists have supported what I propose and when that research was released that DOMS indicates remodelling and growth many forum experts were sceptical and still rejected it. Yes, who wants to abandon what they believe especially when they think they are experts in bodybuilding?
A true test is training arms or calves because they can easily be measured to see if progress is occurring. Inflammation is part of the size increases but over a period of weeks genuine hypertrophy occurs because the strength increases almost exponentially. Avoiding injuries is a requirement for such endeavours and proper exercise selection and form is paramount.
Basile, I disagree on the importance of the pump.
All this talk about drug use ignores the fact that you still don't have a proper theory about training. What is the best rep range? Where should you work out, what time of the day, and what kind of comfortable clothing works best. These days I see people at the gym wearing all kinds of ridiculous outfits that may or may not aid their training. Has any of this apparel been tested or put through any kind of rigorous study? Its like the blind is leading the blind and the one eyed king hasn't even shown up for work.
Larry Scott was the best technician for bodybuilding training. He perfected exercise form in minute detail. He also forged methods to make his muscles get bigger and bigger. He used burns and all manner of painful protocols to achieve his end. I haven't seen any research about his training so we can't know for sure the effectiveness and value of the pump. Ray Mentzer and I talked about the value of the pump. Even if it is not the goal it will be a concomitant of training that stimulates growth. Some of the symptoms of the body when muscles have been stimulated to grow are shaking, sweating, and maximum pump. There is also a wonderful feeling of euphoria that accompanies this state. That is why Arnold said that getting the pump was better than coming. He should know!
Given the fact that there are roughly more than 200 DIFFERENT types of cancers, if you think one day doctors and scientists are just going to find a "cure for cancer" you are just a taddddddd off base... Furthermore, if you knew anything about medicine and science you would realize that cancer acts very differently in 1 person vs the next.... Moral of the story- you are a fucking dipshit.
Discuss.
Oh brother, typical GetBig asshole. Instead of debating, discussing and refuting with logic and reason you immediately resort to insults. Something a coward like you would only do behind a keyboard because if you did so in real life you would have the living shit beaten out of you.
I've provided you with much needed education and called you out for being a moron... I'd be happy to do it in person also, Penis.
Go read some books bro... you really are stupid.
I've provided you with much needed education and called you out for being a moron... I'd be happy to do it in person also, Penis.Penisless would tie you into knots and poop into the mess.
Ouch! Epic come back! "Good read some books, bro..." Utterly ruthless. Just for the record, I'm sure I've gone through more books in a year than you have in a life time and graduated from UCLA with a degree in Math and Applied Science having only two Bs and the rest A's in all my course work.
Surely if anything you said made sense you would have had a much better physique at your peak?
I was at my peak in 1975. I didn't realize the importance of DOMS until 1998 or so. I have debated this topic on the Hypertrophy Specific Forum but impressed nobody there.*Sigh*.........OK Vincent.......post some before/after pics of bodybuilders you have trained using your theories.
You fellows have the benefit of my 52+ years experience bodybuilding and thinking about theories of training.
You know DICK about science and shouldn't open your mouth about it, penis.Outed.
Oh wow... UCLA with a Math and applied science degree... What are you a high school math teacher now?! lol I am impressed.
I am a board certified general surgeon in my last year of surgical oncology fellowship. I graduated #2 in my medical school class. (#1 was a Chinese girl of course lol)
Several people on getbig know me personally and can vouch for who and what I am.
Either way, you lose I win. Go read bro... You know DICK about science and shouldn't open your mouth about it, penis.
Fucking "scientists" like you used to tell us that steroids don't work. ::)His parents paid alot of money to enforce affirmative action for him to get that paper "Achievement Award".
Why is it that people who don't have a valid argument allways throw insults, or trot out their worthless paper Achievement Awards.
Fucking "scientists" like you used to tell us that steroids don't work. ::)
Why is it that people who don't have a valid argument allways throw insults, or trot out their worthless paper Achievement Awards.
Oh wow... UCLA with a Math and applied science degree... What are you a high school math teacher now?! lol I am impressed.
I am a board certified general surgeon in my last year of surgical oncology fellowship. I graduated #2 in my medical school class. (#1 was a Chinese girl of course lol)
Several people on getbig know me personally and can vouch for who and what I am.
Either way, you lose I win. Go read bro... You know DICK about science and shouldn't open your mouth about it, penis.
I'd eat her ass.
His parents paid alot of money to enforce affirmative action for him to get that paper "Achievement Award".
I'm sorry, we must have been looking at guys like Vince Goodrum when we came to those conclusions... lol
For the record, I was just responding to Penis-breath and his claim that he has "read more books than me" in 1 year than I have in my lifetime... and trumping his bullshit math degree with my Doctorate.
I know I’m your worst nightmare Chaos, a black man with an education.
Sure you'd love that if it were true, because it would make you feel better about your lack of achieving anything of importance in your life... but the truth is, I got into medical school because i worked extremely hard in college and earned my way in.
I know I’m your worst nightmare Chaos, a black man with an education. Sorry dude!! I'll tip you well when you change the oil in my car...
Sal your tiny white cock wouldn't fit between those butt cheeks of hers!
LMAO!!! You're the only kind of negroid I like, you Uncle Tom, sell out mutha fucka!! ;D
I heard you were whiter than Wiggs.
Ay yo STEVIE... I'd LOVE to tongue jack your blonde little wife in her shitbox... no offense. :-D
LOL Racist racist... It really eats you up doesn't it?! I love guys like you... You are my motivation!!!Settle down Turk!
LOL Racist racist... It really eats you up doesn't it?! I love guys like you... You are my motivation!!!
Settle down Turk!
Penis- you are taking all of this WAY too seriously dude. I am concerned for you. Your blood pressure is probably through the roof right now! Have you taken your lisinopril today?! HCTZ? Let me know if your need a refill... lol jk
I think you are coming on to me?! First you call me an illiterate guy and now you want pics of me?!
I never claimed to be an "authority" at all... I simply was responding to your RETARDED (yes I said it, RETARDED) post about cancer and what not. Maybe stick to Engineering?
My patients LOVE me (most of them) because I am as real as it gets. I don’t bullshit or beat around the bush, I let them know exactly what I think, what I can do for them, what I can’t do for them… All of their options- not just surgical but chemo, rads, hospice etc and spend a hell of a lot more time at the bedside than MOST surgeons care to do.
And truthfully, all BS aside I dont think my life or degrees "trump" yours at all... simply a different career path.
LOL Racist racist... It really eats you up doesn't it?! I love guys like you... You are my motivation!!!
Not true. I am arguing that inducing DOMS in a target muscle using many maximum sets of about 10 to 15 reps will cause rapid hypertrophy if sustained over several weeks. This should be true for everyone who tries it as long as they are heavier in bodyweight each training day. Rapid strength increases will be a concomitant of this approach. This isn't guesswork but a fact. Some exercise scientists have supported what I propose and when that research was released that DOMS indicates remodelling and growth many forum experts were sceptical and still rejected it. Yes, who wants to abandon what they believe especially when they think they are experts in bodybuilding?
A true test is training arms or calves because they can easily be measured to see if progress is occurring. Inflammation is part of the size increases but over a period of weeks genuine hypertrophy occurs because the strength increases almost exponentially. Avoiding injuries is a requirement for such endeavours and proper exercise selection and form is paramount.
I have no dog in this fight but you kinda sound full of shit.
You would be the FIRST surgeon.....black, white or purple.... to hang around here and talk about eating chick's assholes....not buying it
Yep and as usual the BLACK MAN is winning... Bring it WHITE DEVILS!!! ;D
Groink, have you ever met ANY surgeon before? You can believe whatever you want, but I can bet you that 9 out of 10 surgeons you will ever meet are the most foul-mouthed, perverted, cocky, womanizing, impatient assholes you will EVER met. Find someone you know who has spent time in an operating room and ask them about how the surgeons are… then read my posts and then tell me your thoughts lol People have this belief that the operating room is this quiet place where a mouse could fart and you would hear it... In reality- the music is blasting, we are shooting the shit about what we did over the weekend, we are flirting with the nurses and med students... etc.
Either way, you have the right to your opinion.
Groink, have you ever met ANY surgeon before? You can believe whatever you want, but I can bet you that 9 out of 10 surgeons you will ever meet are the most foul-mouthed, perverted, cocky, womanizing, impatient assholes you will EVER met. Find someone you know who has spent time in an operating room and ask them about how the surgeons are… then read my posts and then tell me your thoughts lol People have this belief that the operating room is this quiet place where a mouse could fart and you would hear it... In reality- the music is blasting, we are shooting the shit about what we did over the weekend, we are flirting with the nurses and med students... etc.
Either way, you have the right to your opinion.
Groink, have you ever met ANY surgeon before? You can believe whatever you want, but I can bet you that 9 out of 10 surgeons you will ever meet are the most foul-mouthed, perverted, cocky, womanizing, impatient assholes you will EVER met. Find someone you know who has spent time in an operating room and ask them about how the surgeons are… then read my posts and then tell me your thoughts lol People have this belief that the operating room is this quiet place where a mouse could fart and you would hear it... In reality- the music is blasting, we are shooting the shit about what we did over the weekend, we are flirting with the nurses and med students... etc.
Either way, you have the right to your opinion.
Never said my life wasn't stressful!! But it's not too bad at the moment... Yes generall principles apply to everyone, wow you are a genius... the specifics are EVERYTHING dude... again, please stick to speaking about topics you know about... Like beach front property in Hawaii, engineering, and being a homo.
Yes....i had my penis reduced a while back, it was a chick and she kept asking me if "i was sure" :D
ut ut ut... now you are slinging insults too... blood pressure Penis... better keep an eye on it!!
Instead of basking in the glory of beach-front property in Hawaii you are on here talking shit to someone who you don't believe is a real physician... so, maybe you need to re-evaluate things homie.
You're losing it. Type to turn up the rap, gangsta. And make sure you roll the windows down so everyone can hate you more.
but I'm glad that you are googling pics for me!Epic cry for attention.
Epic cry for attention.
ut ut ut... now you are slinging insults too... blood pressure Penis... better keep an eye on it!!
Instead of basking in the glory of beach-front property in Hawaii you are on here talking shit to someone who you don't believe is a real physician... so, maybe you need to re-evaluate things homie.
Man it reallllllly eats you up inside, doesn't it?! WOW... I actually feel really bad for you.
Beach front property in Hawaii and you'd rather hang out on getbig and talk shit to me... LOL
I congratulate anyone with a medical degree. Science degree from a recognized university is impressive, too. No one should be dismissed or challenged with those credentials. That doesn't make them experts in hypertrophy but they should be able to participate in an appropriate fashion and contribute now and then.
Pellius made some layman comments about physiology that sounded okay. A doctor might and did take exception to what was said. However, when correcting someone I expect an educated person to proceed in a civil fashion without attacking people. Kill the argument or false notion but leave personalities out of it. Shame on you guys.
No one, the poster, suggested that intense hypertrophy training works for about a month then gains diminish. I have not done DOMS training for more than 4 weeks. I did arms and calves but my exercise execution wasn't the best and I ended up damaging my elbows and Achilles tendon. I now know that you never put your elbows on pads because you can damage the delicate sheath connecting the triceps. Heel raises if done ballistically can cause damage if done regularly and intensely for a long time. Experience teaches us what NOT to do.
It well could be that 4 weeks of intense training should be followed by a break to let the receptors recover. Well, not sure exactly what happens in growing muscles but the same phenomenon has been reported by doctors involved with bodybuilders taking anabolic steroids. HST theory requires a recovery inactive phase to get the best results. Hypertrophy works for a short while the you need to rest. Train another bodypart when you do that.
LOL Civil fashion, on getbig? Be serious... Penis got all bent out of shape because I called him a moron, for posting moronic shit which he has no business posting about...
I love the "he's a surgeon, hed never post about eating a girls asshole" LOL Yes... all surgeons listen to classical music, sip tea and hang out at country clubs and only fuck their women missionary position. you guys are the best!!
no need to cry for it, you give me plenty on your own bro!! Any more black jokes for this evening? How about one about Fried Chicken, Grape Soda and Watermelon?!
Crude, disgraceful, pathetic excuse for a doctor? Wow... if this wasn't coming from a dipshit internet expert on getbig.com, this might actually offend me. ::)
LOL you are a REAL PUSSY. Have a good night!
"Serious and insightful discussion"... on a "crude bodybuilding board" you are clueless and beyond my help, please don't have children.
Yes and you are extremely classy calling me a nigguh and such... ::)
no need to cry for it, you give me plenty on your own bro!! Any more black jokes for this evening? How about one about Fried Chicken, Grape Soda and Watermelon?!
LMAO... you are realllll classy bro with your racist bullshit. Really pathetic.
I have one :D
why are chimpanzees always frowning ??
(http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/willow/chimpanzee-info0.gif)
I stand by everything I've said 100%- you are a racist dipshit. End of story. Nite!
Given the fact that there are roughly more than 200 DIFFERENT types of cancers, if you think one day doctors and scientists are just going to find a "cure for cancer" you are just a taddddddd off base... Furthermore, if you knew anything about medicine and science you would realize that cancer acts very differently in 1 person vs the next.... Moral of the story- you are a fucking dipshit.
Discuss.
Vince...what the fuck are you talking about and please answer my question!Answer my question too, Vince!!!
I added the point about increasing bodyweight for the hard gainer guys who can't gain weight. They won't gain muscle unless they can do so. Bloaters like yourself can disreguard that stipulation. You would be surprised how many active young guys can't put on muscle simply because of inadequate nutrition re calories. Eating properly should provide the essential nutrients but many here have outrageous ideas about protein and eating healthily. It is difficult to help overcome that nonsense.
i agree with vince, now that he has put forward an idea, instead of just telling everyone else's were wrong.
i have switched to a very rep driven program that involves static holds and partials, all to failure.
this is what one set looks like (well use barbell curls as an example)
5 reps with olympic bar and 15 a side. hold at top of 5th rep for 10 count. at end of 10 count 5 more reps. hold for 10 count. at end of 10 count 5 more reps. now 15 partials in middle range of motion where i tend to feel it best in my bicep.
there is constant tension on the muscle the start of the set to the end of the partials. you arm bicep is on fire and swollen at the end of one set. by the time your session is over you cant curl your arm up to take the earbuds from your ipod out of your ear. i do 3 sets of 4 exercises like this, super-setting with triceps in the same manner. the whole workout takes a little over an hour with no rest set to set. in comparison to my last program i am doing 10x the number of reps per workout. it isnt about the weight being used- its focusing on the muscle working and making sure it is totally and completely wiped out when you leave that gym.
for the first 4 weeks i grew like mad, despite dieting. now im in my 5th week i am only now starting to see a diminishing return on this program- it worked awesome for the first month, and now it has taken its toll on my body. i have slept well over 16 hours today as my body is pretty fatigued. it has brought my arms up considerably, and i try to train them at least twice a week. i'll keep training like this until my gains stop, but as long as im getting the proper rest, nutrients and supps, i cant see it happening anytime soon.
Again where did I say "He'd never post..." I just find it disgraceful for someone in your profession. And, no not all board certified surgeons are civil and cultured. You're a prime example. You're a certified piece of shit.
Pray we never find out who you are and your real name. You'd be back to dealing Coke and eating out Black women's asses.
Pig!
I know you recommend 20-30 grams of protein a day tops. Could you give an example of how to eat a lot without exceeding this amount of protein?
Vince B recommends only 20-30g of protein per day?
Comment to Pellius. Being scientific means reading the literature and research findings and accepting the evidence for theories that are held and supported. Too many hold beliefs picked up from magazines and the gym. For example, how much protein does a guy like you need per day? You claim you used to take 300 to 350 grams and have cut that back to about 200 grams just to be safe. Well, someone like you who is not increasing muscle size probably needs only 20 grams of protein per day and probably no more than 50 grams. So you could save even more if you stop wasting it on unnecessary protein. The extra will be converted to energy and it is much cheaper to get that directly from fats and carbohydrates. You need to read university nutrition textbooks and not forum hearsay for your information.
Yes. Vince is a nutrition expert and after reviewing the research this is his conclusion.
You know, it's funny how Basile likes to blow smoke up his ass by talking about university education etc but I haven't so far seen him cite a single scientific study.There's the one 'hypertrophy' study with chickens he's continually citing. ;)
You know, it's funny how Basile likes to blow smoke up his ass by talking about university education etc but I haven't so far seen him cite a single scientific study.
When the research that is there doesn't support his ideas he likes to say, "there is no research". ::)
See the quote I put up above. As if there's no research on protein requirements or that the research supports this amount of protein intake for an athlete. His recommendation is below FDA daily requirements for sedentary individuals ffs! :D
Oh well, on getbig everyone's an expert, even old fat guys.
I'm going to actually give him the benefit of the doubt and say maybe he meant 20-30grms per meal....assuming he's eating more than once a day :-\Have you seen a pic of Vince!? ;D
I'm going to actually give him the benefit of the doubt and say maybe he meant 20-30grms per meal....assuming he's eating more than once a day :-\
Well, someone like you who is not increasing muscle size probably needs only 20 grams of protein per day and probably no more than 50 grams.
THIS sounds great
LOVE no rest arm worouts, just switch from one exercise to the next.
And this reminds me of the catch 22 of drug free lifting. I have average to poor genetics, and I need VOLUME to grow. But when you train drug free as most of my training has been you can burn out with too many set extenders etc. The best ballance of volume and growth for me was GVT.
The few occasions I've had access to hormones I get really fuckin lazy and totally slack off on my workouts, whats up with that?? :'(
No fucking self discipline.
Nah :D
30-50 a day?!?!
come on.
You need to read university nutrition textbooks and not forum hearsay for your information.
He read it in a university nutrition textbook (yeah right). ::) :D
i think what happens a lot of time is that people get caught up with 'what they've read/ what studies show' when in the real world the application of said 'knowledge' results in less than positive results- but that doesnt matter cause its an accredited study done by a phd ::)
I was at my peak in 1975. I didn't realize the importance of DOMS until 1998 or so. I have debated this topic on the Hypertrophy Specific Forum but impressed nobody there.
You fellows have the benefit of my 52+ years experience bodybuilding and thinking about theories of training.
You see the only aw fuck it.
meet your daily crack requirements like me
You really are delusional, HOMIE. You are the one who was busted for buying drugs... and you are the sorry excuse for a man who was looking to take handouts from people on the internet lol Epic Projection. ::)
I really honestly feel sorry for you. I'll pray for you!
fixed.
Changing beliefs of muscle heads is virtually impossible. That is clearly the dumbbell syndrome and most here accept nonsense as long as their equally thick mates think the same. Thinking is what many here are incaple of doing. There seems to be a principle of sufficiency operating when parsimony and economy benefit from necessity considerations. If you need X grams of protein to grow and ingest several times that what can we conclude? Simply that such wasteful simpletons are ignorant of nutrition and foolishly go along with accepted crap driven by rich supplement companies.I'm already huge naturally and I spent very little time near a smith machine......I win.
It doesn't surprise me that the flotsam have little capacity to assess new concepts. They are already equipped with excellent excuses to justify what they believe. They honestly don't believe it is possible to get huge naturally and rapidly so they dismiss all training as the sole path to hypertrophy.
Changing beliefs of muscle heads is virtually impossible. That is clearly the dumbbell syndrome and most here accept nonsense as long as their equally thick mates think the same. Thinking is what many here are incaple of doing. There seems to be a principle of sufficiency operating when parsimony and economy benefit from necessity considerations. If you need X grams of protein to grow and ingest several times that what can we conclude? Simply that such wasteful simpletons are ignorant of nutrition and foolishly go along with accepted crap driven by rich supplement companies.
It doesn't surprise me that the flotsam have little capacity to assess new concepts. They are already equipped with excellent excuses to justify what they believe. They honestly don't believe it is possible to get huge naturally and rapidly so they dismiss all training as the sole path to hypertrophy.
I'm already huge naturally and I spent very little time near a smith machine......I win.Outed.
I would say both training and diet knowledge are basic and simple...drugs are the only aspect that has evolved throughout the years.
Yes, that seems to be so but is false. Training knowledge has evolved and so has gym equipment, especially machines and cardio equipment. Nutrition has made advances, too, re research. The problem is being able to read the research, recognize valuable information and apply it sensibly.Why we should listen to you ??? you are fat , when you were in decent shape you were juicing.
Vince Gironda was the Iron Guru. He published articles about bodybuilding but he said that everywhere he went people wanted information. That is still true today. If you post about a method some people will send a personal message requesting more information or help with programs.
The drugs have prolifterated in use but nowhere is there any research about bodybuilders using these chemicals. It is chemical Russian Roulette playing with those potent substances for year after year. Because so many rely on the anabolic drugs training theory has fallen by the wayside but continues to be debated on many bodybuilding forums. There is still plenty to know about hypertrophy training.
Ignor my words at your peril. Not many on this sordid forum post anything of value. Most of the knuckleheads here wouldn't know good advice from bad. Sad but true and this thread is proof of the dumbbells in this community.
It doesn't surprise me that the flotsam have little capacity to assess new concepts. They are already equipped with excellent excuses to justify what they believe.
Bilderass you have contributed very little to hypertrophy theory. You merely knock what doesn't fit in with your pet beliefs. That isn't science.
Goodrum is without any originality except for bullshitting all day long.
I have advanced hypertrophy theory. It matters not that the Flotsam dismiss it. Anyone who calls themselves a bodybuilder won't accept what I say because it goes against a lot of what they believe. That is perfectly predictable. I can simulate mental experiments and know that maximum hypertrophy can be approached using my methods. What I have outlined here is just a practical variation of the ultimate theory. What a pity that so many lack sufficient neural connections to be bold enough to try a new experiment.
I don't need to have successful disciples to know my theory works. I have tried it on myself and got amazing results. I haven't done the extreme version yet but who knows maybe one day......
Bilderass you have contributed very little to hypertrophy theory. You merely knock what doesn't fit in with your pet beliefs. That isn't science.
Goodrum is without any originality except for bullshitting all day long.
I have advanced hypertrophy theory. It matters not that the Flotsam dismiss it. Anyone who calls themselves a bodybuilder won't accept what I say because it goes against a lot of what they believe. That is perfectly predictable. I can simulate mental experiments and know that maximum hypertrophy can be approached using my methods. What I have outlined here is just a practical variation of the ultimate theory. What a pity that so many lack sufficient neural connections to be bold enough to try a new experiment.
I don't need to have successful disciples to know my theory works. I have tried it on myself and got amazing results. I haven't done the extreme version yet but who knows maybe one day......
I don't need equations. Bodybuilding isn't rocket science. It might as well be if we go by what the wannabes on Getbig believe.
The logic of my reverse engineering is behind the thought experiments. I have been bold, introduced something new and reformulated many of the principles long accepted in bodybuilding jargon. I hardly expect those who favour lifting free weights in gyms to abandon what they know. However, their closed minds prevents them from examining the theory afresh and embracing new ideas.
The sad fact is over 90% of advanced bodybuilders do not make any further progress. That probably applies to advanced intermediates as well. Most are on plateaus and have no clue except to resort to chemical tricks to get bigger. Just about everyone has abandoned a search for better methods. It is staring you in the face but you have been blinded by vulgar musclehead viruses that have destroyed your capacity to think logically and bravely.
I don't need equations. Bodybuilding isn't rocket science. It might as well be if we go by what the wannabes on Getbig believe.
The logic of my reverse engineering is behind the thought experiments. I have been bold, introduced something new and reformulated many of the principles long accepted in bodybuilding jargon. I hardly expect those who favour lifting free weights in gyms to abandon what they know. However, their closed minds prevents them from examining the theory afresh and embracing new ideas.
The sad fact is over 90% of advanced bodybuilders do not make any further progress. That probably applies to advanced intermediates as well. Most are on plateaus and have no clue except to resort to chemical tricks to get bigger. Just about everyone has abandoned a search for better methods. It is staring you in the face but you have been blinded by vulgar musclehead viruses that have destroyed your capacity to think logically and bravely.
k. i've seen a lot of stupid shit online, from guys who claim to know what they are talking about, but this is probably the most stupid thing i have ever read.KEEP MY NAME OUT YOUR MOUTH BITCH
i think what happens a lot of time is that people get caught up with 'what they've read/ what studies show' when in the real world the application of said 'knowledge' results in less than positive results- but that doesnt matter cause its an accredited study done by a phd ::)
heres a good example- ''tbombz' will argue up and down his stance on something based on what he's read. where as the real world application that he doesnt agree with due to it not being 'in what he's read' is not only effective, but highly effective- take ed tren administration. hed argue all day long it makes no difference if you take it ed or eod. but those who take it to the person will say ed administration yields far superior results, even though nobody can really say why. but because he hasnt read that it in a study that ed admin is better it is impossible for it to be.
too many textbook scientists on this site, not enough real world experience talking.
Pellius give it up man , you would never get a valid answer, many have tryed for years and did not get any either.
By the way I think you are a very good poster, and i enjoy reading you.
Pellius, a serious concern deserves a considered response.
Let me address the issue of having successful people who have used my system and grown rapidly. Even if I had these people that is hardly sufficient proof for my theory. I am a student of the philosophy of science and as such embrace the standard that Karl Popper espoused many years ago. If one person follows my method and does not grow rapidly then my theory is false and will have to be modified. If it cannot solve the problem of the hardgainer then my theory will have to be abandoned. That is a strict test of the theory. In other words, I accept falsification as the test. If no one can falsify my theory then it has a good chance of being right.
If I am given groups of older men to train and cannot get them all to grow then my comment about being able to grow at almost any age is false. I have no doubt that everyone will grow. I haven't seen that my capacity to hypertrophy has diminished at all. I will be 69 this September.
The research re bodybuilding and nutrition has to be examined carefully before we can accept it. I still believe that no additional protein is needed if one is eating a balanced diet and providing sufficient calories to grow. That almost everyone else believes you need extra protein is a curiosity. It doesn't mean it is true.
Pellius, a serious concern deserves a considered response.
Let me address the issue of having successful people who have used my system and grown rapidly. Even if I had these people that is hardly sufficient proof for my theory. I am a student of the philosophy of science and as such embrace the standard that Karl Popper espoused many years ago. If one person follows my method and does not grow rapidly then my theory is false and will have to be modified. If it cannot solve the problem of the hardgainer then my theory will have to be abandoned. That is a strict test of the theory. In other words, I accept falsification as the test. If no one can falsify my theory then it has a good chance of being right.
If I am given groups of older men to train and cannot get them all to grow then my comment about being able to grow at almost any age is false. I have no doubt that everyone will grow. I haven't seen that my capacity to hypertrophy has diminished at all. I will be 69 this September.
The research re bodybuilding and nutrition has to be examined carefully before we can accept it. I still believe that no additional protein is needed if one is eating a balanced diet and providing sufficient calories to grow. That almost everyone else believes you need extra protein is a curiosity. It doesn't mean it is true.
I want the kind of back you have. Many just look for wide lats and that exaggerated V taper. I like that thickness especially in the middle and lower back that you have. Very, very impressive.Thanks for the props , now if I could always have as low bodyfat as you have that would be something :)
One thing that I appreciate about Vince is that as much shit that it gets here he always maintains a certain level of decorum that connotes a measure of dignity that is unappreciated if not entirely lost of this generation. You never hear him resort to crude profanity that proliferates on this board, which I myself am guilty of. I get frustrated and angry with him at times and there was a time when I would insult him with the crudest of invectives when it suddenly dawned on me that he never responded in kind. The most you could get out of him was maybe "flotsam" and some other mild insults but never abject profanity. This caused me some degree of shame (which is another trait increasingly rare in what seems now to be an utterly shameless culture) and I made a personal vow that no matter how much he incites me I will always show him the degree of respect and courtesy that he has always shown me and no longer resort to crude and profane insults.
But as of now this only applies to him. Everyone else is fair game. ;)
Thanks for the props , now if I could always have as low bodyfat as you have that would be something :)
Yes, Vince does not resort to ``big`` insults or profanity about your mom or so , and I like that somehow.But when he tells us that his capacity to hypertrophy has not diminished and here I am training like a ``maniac`` year after year and seeing that some muscle and strength disappear anyway , I think, no wonder people look at him as a fool and senile old man.............
And the phrase under my avatar is not really true it`s just a way of ``pump myself up`` and stay positive ;D
Ignor my words at your peril. Not many on this sordid forum post anything of value. Most of the knuckleheads here wouldn't know good advice from bad. Sad but true and this thread is proof of the dumbbells in this community.LOL. What are you, channeling Gandalf!?
Dr Chimps fails to see my sense of humour.I do. It's a shortcoming I share with the rest of Getbig.
KEEP MY NAME OUT YOUR MOUTH BITCH
What Xerxes said.
I just got back into training regularly and consistantly about 3 or 4 months ago. At the moment I'm 165 @ 13-14% and my all time best condition was 167 @ sub-8. The problem I have with your theroy is that I firmly believe that it will lead to gross and acute overtraining. But who knows, maybe I should give it a run? I've gotta get to work now, but I'll give some thought to your proposal.
I don't need blue stars to know I am an expert in hypertrophy. I help people all the time at my gym. They are grateful unlike the know-it-alls on Getbig. If you want to refute me try the method and if it doesn't work then that is what will bother me. It will take a true world authority to correct me and not some internet quick draw. Good criticism benefits everyone. Nasty, personal stuff has no place in this discourse.So, what do you recommend? high volume?
So, what do you recommend? high volume?
his recommendation..,,:::D
-have your own judges
-a handful of d-bol every morning
:D
Yes I have trouble gaining weight, muscle weight that is. I've "bulked up" 3 seperate times in my life. The 1st time I hit 190, the second time I hit 198, and the third time I hit 211. Each time I was a fucking fatass, well over 20% bodyfat, and I hated being that fat! So, I'm not too keen on gaining weight just for the sake of gaining weight, since I did it 3 seperate times in the past, and each time it was a complete and utter failure. I'm curious Vince, did you take a look at that experiment that I mentioned, The Boise Experiment? The 2 subjects followed Mentzer's Heavy Duty Ideal Routine, starting with 5 days btw workouts and extended it further to training once every 7 days. What I like about the one set til failure protocol is that it leads to less "wear and tear" on the body, and as Mentzer says leaves that much more of the bodies resources availible for repairing and growing the muscles larger and stronger. And yes, you make a great point about focusing on "The Big 3". Bench, squat, chin or row.
Shut the fuck up asshole. you have no business talking about adding muscle mass, because you never had any
NewsFlash.....your "peak" was no big fucking deal. PATHETIC arms... no legs... No shoulders.. No back
You had abs and a clean pec line because you wereleanskinny....period.
PS.....I'm starting to doubt that's even you......i think you are a troll at this point
Devilsmile looks better than you ever did and the kid smokes weed and draws cartoons all day long
I do. It's a shortcoming I share with the rest of Getbig.
;D
Citing bodybuilders to back up your points is pretty stupid since they're all on outrageous amounts of hormones.
I'm not aware of many scientific studies that have looked at protein intake and muscle growth but I don't know that area well. There is certainly tons of anecdotal correlational evidence, i.e.:
- everyone that any one of us have ever known who has gotten big and strong has probably eaten a lot of protein (Group A)
- everyone who is soft and weak-looking eats a bunch of shitty carbs (Group B)
The issue is that Group A works out hard and Group B doesn't. Has anyone every actually tried a low protein diet while doing bodybuilding workouts? What were your results like? I'm thinking like 50-100 grams a day, with a good chunk of it right after your workout, rather than the 150+ that most of us are probably consuming.
Damn bro......maybe go listen to some Erasure and calm down....... ;)
It was kind of shocking actually to find out that the old fat douche who cried "bro-science" etc actually just has his own bro science theory that supposedly is better because "he's an expert" and "has helped people in the gym", UNBELIEVEABLE.
Thank you for the kind words pellius. ;D
Yes, for your age, being an unabashed pot head, and a chartered member of generation nothingness, you seem to have a good head on your shoulders.
Carry on.
Yes, for your age, being an unabashed pot head, and a chartered member of generation nothingness, you seem to have a good head of hair on your shoulders.
Carry on.
Vince, you say over training is a myth yet you go on to say your program stimulates growth and avoids doing too much to the body. And allude to a protocol of training 2x/wk doing only 3 exercises. You also credit pro bodybuilders as doing something right when all along you've been criticizing wannabe bodybuilding for listening to the muscles heads and not to you.
Nonetheless, you disappointed me as you did not point to any proof or studies for my very specific questions to two very specific claims that you made. I read a lot of "I believe", "it's been my experience", "I am an expert in hypertrophy". In other words, you don't have any proof or scientific studies to back up your claims but simply your own opinion -- exactly what you accuse the board of doing.
As much as it pains me to say this I have to agree with the always surprisingly clear thinking young Xerxes less than gentle assessment.
You are ALL just generation floastam as far as theories of muscle growth are concerned. Floating on a sea of ignorance, your bloated carcasses rotting in the fetid sunshine of stale ideas.
You are ALL just generation floastam as far as theories of muscle growth are concerned. Floating on a sea of ignorance, your bloated carcasses rotting in the fetid sunshine of stale ideas.
You are ALL just generation floastam as far as theories of muscle growth are concerned. Floating on a sea of ignorance, your bloated carcasses rotting in the fetid sunshine of stale ideas.
Yes...."A little respect" is what i need ;D
Lee Priest and I both believe that overtraining is a myth or an excuse at best. Seems to me you have trouble gaining weight and if this is true then gains will be virtually impossible for you no matter what training program you do. My program stimulates growth and avoids doing too much in the body. It is better than Heavy Duty. If HD was correct then more bodybuilders would be using it. That isn't what we find so do we suggest they are foolish or that HD doesn't either work or suit them? I tend to believe the latter. No matter what you want to say about the pros they all got huge compared to most of us. They are doing more things right than the rest of us and that is true even if you subtract the drugs. Of course, many lose size when they go off the drugs because they stop training because they don't see the point. Had they persisted with training they might retain much of their size. I don't train my calves and they are still quite large. I go for bushwalks carrying a heavy backpack and a few cameras and that is training of a kind. My calves are over 17 1/2 and I haven't been walking much lately. When I do they increase another 1/2 inch. I can tell you I trained for years to get them over 16 1/2.
You have to admit you don't know what will happen to your body. Even if you don't try my method you should cut down to doing three exercises twice a week. Squats or leg presses, Bench or chest machine, and pulldowns to the top of the chest with a close grip. Do 3 max sets on each and you should grow. Not as much as doing 5 max sets. Maybe you could pick one bodypart each workout and do 5 max sets and 3 for the other parts. Warm up sets don't count. This is about as close to doing personal training as I am going to get here. It is free but it isn't worthless information. You have to weigh more each workout. Not much but enough to register on a scale that you are heavier. Weigh yourself at the same time before each workout. Good luck.
Overtraining a myth? GTFO you moron
How would you define "overtraining"?!anything more than optimal... getting weaker/not getting stronger because you did too much... when breakdown exceeds buildup because of excessive muscle damage due to numerous strenous sets..
discuss.
anything more than optimal... getting weaker/not getting stronger because you did too much... when breakdown exceeds buildup because of excessive muscle damage due to numerous strenous sets..
(stimulate, dont annihilate) -lee haney, tbombz..
anything more than optimal... getting weaker/not getting stronger because you did too much... when breakdown exceeds buildup because of excessive muscle damage due to numerous strenous sets..
(stimulate, dont annihilate) -lee haney, tbombz..
Well certainly whats optimal for one person, isn't necessarily optimal for the next based on many factors...
"When breakdown exceeds buildup because of excesive muscle damage due to numerous strenous sets" ehhh, i'm not really buying into this... I mean sure, if you are in the gym for 5 hours training biceps then you go home and eat a salad and nothing else you'll put yourself in a catabolic state...
but for someone with a reasonable diet, plenty of rest... i really think it would be DIFFICULT to "overtrain"... im not buying that if 4 sets is optimal, my 5th set is going to make me weaker and make me "overtrain".
Well certainly whats optimal for one person, isn't necessarily optimal for the next based on many factors...
"When breakdown exceeds buildup because of excesive muscle damage due to numerous strenous sets" ehhh, i'm not really buying into this... I mean sure, if you are in the gym for 5 hours training biceps then you go home and eat a salad and nothing else you'll put yourself in a catabolic state...
but for someone with a reasonable diet, plenty of rest... i really think it would be DIFFICULT to "overtrain"... im not buying that if 4 sets is optimal, my 5th set is going to make me weaker and make me "overtrain".
it has to do with where your muscles are currently at strength/conditioning wise.. and how much stress they can handle before breaking down under the pressure.
if you get better results by doing more lifting. by all means stick with that. for most beginners more usually = better. but once you reach a certain point, the amount of weights you have to lift in order to get bigger put a limit on ho wmuch work you can do befor eyou start causing excessive muscle damage that will get in the way of growth and recovery.
the idea is to stimulate your muscle to grow larger. when your alreeady well developed, annihilating yourself usually wont stimulate growth. youve got to do just enough to grow, and not more.
Exactly. The human body does not have an unlimited capacity for dealing with training stress, nor any other stress.Excellent post, not only that but each individual is limited by genetics not only for gaining muscle but recovery from intense excercise. Some can get away with more exercise than others but overall recovery is limited as is genes for building muscle. 8)
Excellent post, not only that but each individual is limited by genetics not only for gaining muscle but recovery from intense excercise. Some can get away with more exercise than others but overall recovery is limited as is genes for building muscle. 8)some may be able to excell with one program, while others may have to use a different program. i dont believe in implicit genetic limitations, only explicit barriers like mental retardation, disfigurement, etc.
Excellent post, not only that but each individual is limited by genetics not only for gaining muscle but recovery from intense excercise. Some can get away with more exercise than others but overall recovery is limited as is genes for building muscle. 8)
some may be able to excell with one program, while others may have to use a different program. i dont believe in implicit genetic limitations, only explicit barriers like mental retardation, disfigurement, etc.
Willpower and determination will only take you so far. I might want to be a 8 foot tall, black basketball player really bad, wanting that so badly isn't going to change the reality. Same with bodybuilding.like i said, explicit barriers are one thing. cant change your bone structure, skin color, etc... but theres never been any evidence of some kind of limiting factor present in humans that would make it impossible for any individual to grow massive msucles...
like i said, explicit barriers are one thing. cant change your bone structure, skin color, etc... but theres never been any evidence of some kind of limiting factor present in humans that would make it impossible for any individual to grow massive msucles...
Well, it's not only not needed, it's counter-productive. Tbombz is right on this one. Once you've stimulated growth, additional sets are just like switiching a light swith on and off.
And you "know you've stimulated growth" how? LOL... I do not believe if ive stimulated growth at set 3, that at set #4 ive completely screwed myself up.
Moral of the story- experiment with different training methods... figure out which works best for you at a given time, eat well, rest and you will make progress.
Do a set to failure, get the fuck out of there. You've stimulated growth right there. You've just overcome the body's previous muscular ability and gave it a reason to respond and improve. Sure, that extra set won't COMPLETELY screw you, it just won't help you any more than the previous one already did.
I disagree I doubt if I did 1 sets to failure on 3-4 exercises that it would be anywhere near as effective as what I do now. 4-5 sets
So you are saying doing 1 set to failure is all i need to stimulate growth? LOL come on... I can do a set to absolute failure where I literally can not move the weight another inch... rest about a minute and then am able to do more reps with the same weight. You say the rest of these reps and sets "won't help", not buyin' it.
And I do not agree with you at all that doing a set to failure has "overcome the body's previous musclar ability... and that is reason enough to respond and improve etc"... even if last week i did a set of flat benchpress for 5 reps and this week i was able to do 6.
Look, I'm not going to argue with you. I trained the way you speak of for 2 years and LITERALLY didn't put on a pound. You don't have to believe that, but I have no reason to lie to you. I had that mentality, where I had some level of fear and uncertainty that I "wasn't doing enough to stimulate growth". I kept it up regardless of no progress. I switched to my current fashion of training...well I used to be 128 lbs. I'm a lean 198 lbs after 3 years of this type of training and EVERY other person I have trained with using this method have had very similar gains.
LMAO @ this whole discussion.....talk about overthinking shit.
Lifting weights is very complicated.says the guy who did his phD on the subject ;D (related)
says the guy who did his phD on the subject ;D (related)
My work actually didn't have much if anything to do with lifting (but a lot to do with muscle!).what = your area of investigation into men in thongz?
what = your area of investigation into men in thongz?
Lifting weights is very complicated.???
???
Pick it up, put it down........
You are cheating yourself out of a potential 0.5 micrograms of lean mass per year with this knucklehead approach chaos.Oh no. :o
It was about properties of muscle and how they affect movement.nice I wish I was smart so I could get in on this muscle gayning stuff.
nice I wish I was smart so I could get in on this muscle gayning stuff.
Going to school for a long time doesn't necessarily make you smart. I know lots of imbeciles with PhDs.Takes one to know one.
Takes one to know one.
Who said there was no such thing as overtraining?????
Who said there was no such thing as overtraining?????
Basile...and Lee Priest apparently.
Do a set to failure, get the fuck out of there. You've stimulated growth right there. You've just overcome the body's previous muscular ability and gave it a reason to respond and improve. Sure, that extra set won't COMPLETELY screw you, it just won't help you any more than the previous one already did.
Exactly. The human body does not have an unlimited capacity for dealing with training stress, nor any other stress.
Just as the esteemed Mr. Nobody referenced, excellent, concise and to the point.
POTD
Serious question for all these "one set to failure" guys.........what weight/reps do you use? I mean do you use a weight you fail at 10 reps? 15? 25? 3? 4? How do you dictate that? What I'm asking is what says that failure at 3 reps is less stimulating to muscle growth than failure at 30 reps?is that really what your asking? isnt the answer obvious?
is that really what your asking? isnt the answer obvious?
..i dont do one set to failure, but i know that it works very well for certain individuals. a buddy of mine is 5'8'' 250 10% year round and thats the way he trains
is that a legit gh15 approved stat???? yea he has won some regional shows, placed well at state shows
Oh, but I totally disagree with how you train and I bet you don't actually train that way either, I bet your "warm up sets" are actual working sets. ;)
(just like Dorian)
is that really what your asking? isnt the answer obvious?Exactly what I'm asking.......after all when the muscle fails, it fails, right? So why bother doing more reps if you can hit failure at 3-4 reps?
..i dont do one set to failure, but i know that it works very well for certain individuals. a buddy of mine is 5'8'' 250 10% year round and thats the way he trains
dr.chimps sent me this link - trailer for the upcoming 'Atlas Shrugged' 3 part movie
http://io9.com/#!5758767/the-atlas-shrugged-trailer-stars-a-bunch-of-people-yelling-about-the-railroad-industry (http://io9.com/#!5758767/the-atlas-shrugged-trailer-stars-a-bunch-of-people-yelling-about-the-railroad-industry)
Exactly what I'm asking.......after all when the muscle fails, it fails, right? So why bother doing more reps if you can hit failure at 3-4 reps?
The whole "one set to failure" is a bunch of bullshit anyways, all those guys do tons of "warm up sets" before their one set.....oh brother.
Here's my two cents Chaos. I alway aim to do at the very least 6 repetitions with a certain weight. Now the reason I don't just do one or two repetitions all out to failure is simple; the closer you get to your 1 rep max, the more likely you are going to injure yourself as the muscle is trying to fire at the limit of its capabilities from the start. Take for example a recent workout; one exercise was machine 3/4 deadlifts. My last effort I used 220kg for 15 brutal repetitions, also focusing on slow, controlled negatives for the last 5 reps with the aid of my training partners. Now, God knows what my 1 rep max would be on that exercise but just from a psychological stand point I would feel defeated by just looking at the amount of plates I was lifting. Doing a few more reps gives you time to neurologically set up (mind/muscle crap), and provide you with the preparation to get your form down for the failure rep. I'm not just saying this either, but I really do just walk in the gym and get to work straight away. The most I'll ever do in the way of a warm up is one set of something ridiculously light just to get a feel for the movement. Relatively speaking, there's no work/intensity put into any warm up.
How could it be your last effort if you walk in and go straight to work ???
Here's my two cents Chaos. I alway aim to do at the very least 6 repetitions with a certain weight. Now the reason I don't just do one or two repetitions all out to failure is simple; the closer you get to your 1 rep max, the more likely you are going to injure yourself as the muscle is trying to fire at the limit of its capabilities from the start. Take for example a recent workout; one exercise was machine 3/4 deadlifts. My last effort I used 220kg for 15 brutal repetitions, also focusing on slow, controlled negatives for the last 5 reps with the aid of my training partners. Now, God knows what my 1 rep max would be on that exercise but just from a psychological stand point I would feel defeated by just looking at the amount of plates I was lifting. Doing a few more reps gives you time to neurologically set up (mind/muscle crap), and provide you with the preparation to get your form down for the failure rep. I'm not just saying this either, but I really do just walk in the gym and get to work straight away. The most I'll ever do in the way of a warm up is one set of something ridiculously light just to get a feel for the movement. Relatively speaking, there's no work/intensity put into any warm up.
incorrect, pjim. jones and mentzer would be disappointed. i'd jump in here but i can only type with one hand because my other hand is greasy while eating fried chicken and fries. i'll give you a hint: inroads, my friend, inroads. same reason why dorian, mentzer, viator (under jones) may have done one set per exercise but not one set per muscle group.
hmmmm...kfc drumsticks and thighs.....extra crispy...
incorrect, pjim. jones and mentzer would be disappointed. i'd jump in here but i can only type with one hand because my other hand is greasy while eating fried chicken and fries. i'll give you a hint: inroads, my friend, inroads. same reason why dorian, mentzer, viator (under jones) may have done one set per exercise but not one set per muscle group.
hmmmm...kfc drumsticks and thighs.....extra crispy...
Do a set to failure, get the fuck out of there. You've stimulated growth right there. You've just overcome the body's previous muscular ability and gave it a reason to respond and improve. Sure, that extra set won't COMPLETELY screw you, it just won't help you any more than the previous one already did.
Do a set to failure, get the fuck out of there. You've stimulated growth right there. You've just overcome the body's previous muscular ability and gave it a reason to respond and improve. Sure, that extra set won't COMPLETELY screw you, it just won't help you any more than the previous one already did.
HIIT is bullshit!