stimulate, dont annihilate!!! key to training success

[Jaime]

You are ALL just generation floastam as far as theories of muscle growth are concerned. Floating on a sea of ignorance, your bloated carcasses rotting in the fetid sunshine of stale ideas.

Zaphod Byron Basille.

[The Showstoppa]

All hail the great Zaphod.

[dj181]

Ok groink, so when did I ever say that I have or had lots of muscle? Also, how do you know that I have "no legs" and "no back"? Ok, I'll admit that I don't have much in the legs dept, but my upper back is BY FAR my best body part. In fact, Mr. Nobody can verify this as he has seen a recent pic of my upper back. But since you hate my guts so much why don't we come up with a contest here on getbig with the loser deleting their account? Let's say we each pick some kind of physical goal, for example getting lean, gaining size, and whoever comes cloest to achieving their goal wins. This should be an easy win for you, since I'm just a gimmick and I don't really exist, right? So what do you say tough guy?

[chaos]

Yes...."A little respect" is what i need 

[Hulkotron]

Haha how did Basile's name get changed to Zaphod?

Pellius and Xerxes are laying down whole sections of ownage in this thread.

[PJim]

Lee Priest and I both believe that overtraining is a myth or an excuse at best. Seems to me you have trouble gaining weight and if this is true then gains will be virtually impossible for you no matter what training program you do. My program stimulates growth and avoids doing too much in the body. It is better than Heavy Duty. If HD was correct then more bodybuilders would be using it. That isn't what we find so do we suggest they are foolish or that HD doesn't either work or suit them? I tend to believe the latter. No matter what you want to say about the pros they all got huge compared to most of us. They are doing more things right than the rest of us and that is true even if you subtract the drugs. Of course, many lose size when they go off the drugs because they stop training because they don't see the point. Had they persisted with training they might retain much of their size. I don't train my calves and they are still quite large. I go for bushwalks carrying a heavy backpack and a few cameras and that is training of a kind. My calves are over 17 1/2 and I haven't been walking much lately. When I do they increase another 1/2 inch. I can tell you I trained for years to get them over 16 1/2.

You have to admit you don't know what will happen to your body. Even if you don't try my method you should cut down to doing three exercises twice a week. Squats or leg presses, Bench or chest machine, and pulldowns to the top of the chest with a close grip. Do 3 max sets on each and you should grow. Not as much as doing 5 max sets. Maybe you could pick one bodypart each workout and do 5 max sets and 3 for the other parts. Warm up sets don't count. This is about as close to doing personal training as I am going to get here. It is free but it isn't worthless information. You have to weigh more each workout. Not much but enough to register on a scale that you are heavier. Weigh yourself at the same time before each workout. Good luck.

Overtraining a myth? GTFO you moron

[Alexander D]

Overtraining a myth? GTFO you moron

How would you define "overtraining"?!

discuss.

[tbombz]

How would you define "overtraining"?!

discuss.

anything more than optimal... getting weaker/not getting stronger because you did too much...  when breakdown exceeds buildup because of excessive muscle damage due to numerous strenous sets..


(stimulate, dont annihilate) -lee haney, tbombz..

[PJim]

anything more than optimal... getting weaker/not getting stronger because you did too much...  when breakdown exceeds buildup because of excessive muscle damage due to numerous strenous sets..


(stimulate, dont annihilate) -lee haney, tbombz..

Exactly. The human body does not have an unlimited capacity for dealing with training stress, nor any other stress.

[Alexander D]

anything more than optimal... getting weaker/not getting stronger because you did too much...  when breakdown exceeds buildup because of excessive muscle damage due to numerous strenous sets..


(stimulate, dont annihilate) -lee haney, tbombz..

Well certainly whats optimal for one person, isn't necessarily optimal for the next based on many factors...

"When breakdown exceeds buildup because of excesive muscle damage due to numerous strenous sets" ehhh, i'm not really buying into this... I mean sure, if you are in the gym for 5 hours training biceps then you go home and eat a salad and nothing else you'll put yourself in a catabolic state...

but for someone with a reasonable diet, plenty of rest... i really think it would be DIFFICULT to "overtrain"... im not buying that if 4 sets is optimal, my 5th set is going to make me weaker and make me "overtrain".

[tbombz]

Well certainly whats optimal for one person, isn't necessarily optimal for the next based on many factors...

"When breakdown exceeds buildup because of excesive muscle damage due to numerous strenous sets" ehhh, i'm not really buying into this... I mean sure, if you are in the gym for 5 hours training biceps then you go home and eat a salad and nothing else you'll put yourself in a catabolic state...

but for someone with a reasonable diet, plenty of rest... i really think it would be DIFFICULT to "overtrain"... im not buying that if 4 sets is optimal, my 5th set is going to make me weaker and make me "overtrain".

it has to do with where your muscles are currently at strength/conditioning wise.. and how much stress they can handle before breaking down under the pressure.

if you get better results by doing more lifting. by all means stick with that. for most beginners more usually = better. but once you reach a certain point, the amount of weights you have to lift in order to get bigger put a limit on ho wmuch work you can do befor eyou start causing excessive muscle damage that will get in the way of growth and recovery.

the idea is to stimulate your muscle to grow larger. when your alreeady well developed, annihilating yourself usually wont stimulate growth. youve got to do just enough to grow, and not more.

[PJim]

Well certainly whats optimal for one person, isn't necessarily optimal for the next based on many factors...

"When breakdown exceeds buildup because of excesive muscle damage due to numerous strenous sets" ehhh, i'm not really buying into this... I mean sure, if you are in the gym for 5 hours training biceps then you go home and eat a salad and nothing else you'll put yourself in a catabolic state...

but for someone with a reasonable diet, plenty of rest... i really think it would be DIFFICULT to "overtrain"... im not buying that if 4 sets is optimal, my 5th set is going to make me weaker and make me "overtrain".

Well, it's not only not needed, it's counter-productive. Tbombz is right on this one. Once you've stimulated growth, additional sets are just like switiching a light swith on and off.

[Alexander D]

it has to do with where your muscles are currently at strength/conditioning wise.. and how much stress they can handle before breaking down under the pressure.

if you get better results by doing more lifting. by all means stick with that. for most beginners more usually = better. but once you reach a certain point, the amount of weights you have to lift in order to get bigger put a limit on ho wmuch work you can do befor eyou start causing excessive muscle damage that will get in the way of growth and recovery.

the idea is to stimulate your muscle to grow larger. when your alreeady well developed, annihilating yourself usually wont stimulate growth. youve got to do just enough to grow, and not more.

A safe reply, I agree to most of what you said.

[tbombz]

yes, i would add this comes from personal experience and years of frustration after busting my ass in the gym, working HARD, annihilating my muscles week in and week out and not making much, if any, progress.  if hard work and annihilation was key, i would have been growing non stop. but i wasnt making progress. in fact alot of times i would regress, get weaker, and have to struggle bakc up. even on  juice. but now i come to find out that im not going to grow a shit ton in one workout. so i focus on making a small improvement every workout. do just enough so that i know i will grow, and not any more. this way i always progress.

[Mr Nobody]

Exactly. The human body does not have an unlimited capacity for dealing with training stress, nor any other stress.

Excellent post, not only that but each individual is limited by genetics not only for gaining muscle but recovery from intense excercise. Some can get away with more exercise than others but overall recovery is limited as is genes for building muscle.  

[tbombz]

Excellent post, not only that but each individual is limited by genetics not only for gaining muscle but recovery from intense excercise. Some can get away with more exercise than others but overall recovery is limited as is genes for building muscle.  

some may be able to excell with one program, while others may have to use a different program. i dont believe in implicit genetic limitations, only explicit barriers like mental retardation, disfigurement, etc.

[PJim]

Excellent post, not only that but each individual is limited by genetics not only for gaining muscle but recovery from intense excercise. Some can get away with more exercise than others but overall recovery is limited as is genes for building muscle.  

Yep, yep. You know the score as usual Nobody. Mike obviously got through to you  

[PJim]

some may be able to excell with one program, while others may have to use a different program. i dont believe in implicit genetic limitations, only explicit barriers like mental retardation, disfigurement, etc.

Willpower and determination will only take you so far. I might want to be a 8 foot tall, black basketball player really bad, wanting that so badly isn't going to change the reality. Same with bodybuilding.

[tbombz]

Willpower and determination will only take you so far. I might want to be a 8 foot tall, black basketball player really bad, wanting that so badly isn't going to change the reality. Same with bodybuilding.

like i said, explicit barriers are one thing. cant change your bone structure, skin color, etc...   but theres never been any evidence of some kind of limiting factor present in  humans that would make it impossible for any individual to grow massive msucles...

[haider]

Don't forget to throw in a 'deep massage' every once in a while for teh RECOVERY!!! 

[PJim]

like i said, explicit barriers are one thing. cant change your bone structure, skin color, etc...   but theres never been any evidence of some kind of limiting factor present in  humans that would make it impossible for any individual to grow massive msucles...

LOL, err how's about; muscular dystrophy? Add to that myostatin.

[Marty Champions]

i looked my best when i spent 2 hours a day EVERYDAY working out and semi starving myself when i was young

however i seem to get more attention from hoes as now that im older but fatter and bigger and not nearly as ripped

[Alexander D]

Well, it's not only not needed, it's counter-productive. Tbombz is right on this one. Once you've stimulated growth, additional sets are just like switiching a light swith on and off.

And you "know you've stimulated growth" how? LOL... I do not believe if ive stimulated growth at set 3, that at set #4 ive completely screwed myself up.

Moral of the story- experiment with different training methods... figure out which works best for you at a given time, eat well, rest and you will make progress.

[PJim]

And you "know you've stimulated growth" how? LOL... I do not believe if ive stimulated growth at set 3, that at set #4 ive completely screwed myself up.

Moral of the story- experiment with different training methods... figure out which works best for you at a given time, eat well, rest and you will make progress.

Do a set to failure, get the fuck out of there. You've stimulated growth right there. You've just overcome the body's previous muscular ability and gave it a reason to respond and improve. Sure, that extra set won't COMPLETELY screw you, it just won't help you any more than the previous one already did.

[Ursus]

I disagree I doubt if I did 1 sets to failure on 3-4 exercises that it would be anywhere near as effective as what I do now. 4-5 sets