Author Topic: 100 Dead Blacks vs 5000 Dead Blacks - what gets more coverage?  (Read 14876 times)

Al Doggity

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Re: 100 Dead Blacks vs 5000 Dead Blacks - what gets more coverage?
« Reply #200 on: August 23, 2014, 09:34:30 PM »
not what I asked...
The fact is that it is based on numbers, now you can argue that those numbers are wrong or they mislead but the fact is the actions are based on numbers.

The results dont speak to the reasoning and its validity. Again the numbers show that blacks commit crime at a disproportionately higher rate. If you are looking for a certain criminal element you have a better chance of finding it in the black demographic. What those chances are if you randomly stop a black person doesnt negate the fact you have a higher chance of finding it by stopping a black person.

It does when the program basically comes down to stopping as many minorities as possible and seeing what sticks. And even then , it comes out to almost nothing, statistically. It does negate the validity of the reasoning.

Al Doggity

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Re: 100 Dead Blacks vs 5000 Dead Blacks - what gets more coverage?
« Reply #201 on: August 23, 2014, 09:39:35 PM »
Oh I see, its all a conspiracy by the white judicial system.  Same old conspiracy BS .

Oh, come on. One of stop and frisks hallmarks is that it targets minorities and, even with its rockbottom arrest rate, those arrests are usually low-level crimes. It's not at all unlikely that crime rates aren't as disparate in regards to those crimes. And it's a fact that blacks are sent away longer and more frequently for drug charges than whites who commit comparable drug offenses. Those are just two examples. Let's not forget, the whole reason I jumped into this thread was the bullshit statistics you posted on the first page.

tonymctones

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Re: 100 Dead Blacks vs 5000 Dead Blacks - what gets more coverage?
« Reply #202 on: August 23, 2014, 09:40:09 PM »
It does when the program basically comes down to stopping as many minorities as possible and seeing what sticks. And even then , it comes out to almost nothing, statistically. It does negate the validity of the reasoning.
hahahaha whatever you say fat albert. Its obvious that the very idea that blacks commit a disproportionately higher amount of crime is so repulsive to you that you are willing to overlook facts.

tonymctones

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Re: 100 Dead Blacks vs 5000 Dead Blacks - what gets more coverage?
« Reply #203 on: August 23, 2014, 09:42:13 PM »
Oh, come on. One of stop and frisks hallmarks is that it targets minorities and, even with its rockbottom arrest rate, those arrests are usually low-level crimes. It's not at all unlikely that crime rates aren't as disparate in regards to those crimes. And it's a fact that blacks are sent away longer and more frequently for drug charges than whites who commit comparable drug offenses.
do you think the arrest rate would be higher or lower if they targeted more whites?

Archer77

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Re: 100 Dead Blacks vs 5000 Dead Blacks - what gets more coverage?
« Reply #204 on: August 23, 2014, 09:45:02 PM »
It actually is. Because if the stops are supposed to be targeted and don't result in arrests on a significant scale, then the reasoning is flawed.

The ineffectiveness of the program cant be attributed to the race of those who are searched. There are other factors. Youre arguing because the arrest rates are low the program is racist. That makes no sense.  Do you think arrest and conviction rates would go up or down if the searches became random?  
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Al Doggity

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Re: 100 Dead Blacks vs 5000 Dead Blacks - what gets more coverage?
« Reply #205 on: August 23, 2014, 09:47:57 PM »
do you think the arrest rate would be higher or lower if they targeted more whites?

It would likely stay flat.

Al Doggity

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Re: 100 Dead Blacks vs 5000 Dead Blacks - what gets more coverage?
« Reply #206 on: August 23, 2014, 09:55:38 PM »
The ineffectiveness of the program cant be attributed to the race of those who are searched. There are other factors. Youre arguing because the arrest rates are low the program is racist. That makes no sense.  Do you think arrest and conviction rates would go up or down if the searches became random?  

If race is a major factor in why people are stopped, then it can be blamed as one of the reasons the program is a failure. There are other factors, but race is a major indicator. And  the argument makes perfect sense. The low arrest rate vs. the massive number of stops prove that the targets are faulty.

Archer77

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Re: 100 Dead Blacks vs 5000 Dead Blacks - what gets more coverage?
« Reply #207 on: August 23, 2014, 10:00:53 PM »
Oh, come on. One of stop and frisks hallmarks is that it targets minorities and, even with its rockbottom arrest rate, those arrests are usually low-level crimes. It's not at all unlikely that crime rates aren't as disparate in regards to those crimes. And it's a fact that blacks are sent away longer and more frequently for drug charges than whites who commit comparable drug offenses. Those are just two examples. Let's not forget, the whole reason I jumped into this thread was the bullshit statistics you posted on the first page.

Correlation does not imply causation. But lets assume you are right. Have you considered they are sent away longer and more frequently because prior convictions and being charged with multiple crimes simultaneously.  You cant compare a black guy who is busted for drugs with prior convictions and who is also being charged with other crimes to a white guy with no priors

For crimes like, assault,  murder and rape the victims and witnesses are likely to be black. Are they racist? Also, the race of those arrested matches the percentages given by victims.  
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Archer77

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Re: 100 Dead Blacks vs 5000 Dead Blacks - what gets more coverage?
« Reply #208 on: August 23, 2014, 10:01:41 PM »
It would likely stay flat.

So the effectiveness would go down or up?
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Archer77

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tonymctones

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Re: 100 Dead Blacks vs 5000 Dead Blacks - what gets more coverage?
« Reply #210 on: August 23, 2014, 11:23:48 PM »
It would likely stay flat.
if the arrest rate would likely stay flat then youre saying it is more effective to perform stop and frisk on blacks than whites....WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT WE ARE SAYING!!!!!

24KT

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Re: 100 Dead Blacks vs 5000 Dead Blacks - what gets more coverage?
« Reply #211 on: August 24, 2014, 01:39:49 AM »
The tanks have nothing to do with the stealing.  The stealing and destruction begin before the national guard showed up. Stop making excuses for these thieves.   What are you going to do about the violence?   

Do you actually read something before you react? Those vehicles depicted have nothing to do with the uprising in Ferguson. Those were vehicles gifted to various Police Depts in Ohio, including campus police.

Do you really think university campuses have need for these. Do you really think they'll make the trek over to the chemistry lab a little safer?

Yes, it was the uprising in Ferguson that resulted in the National Guard being called in, however, it was the piss poor response of a militarized police force violating the rates of the citizens of Ferguson that lit the fuse to the rioting in the first place. That's what so many people seem to be missing.

The people in Ferguson... both Black & White, had had enough of being oppressed by a police that treats them and their community like a foreign war zone. The blatant violation & suppression of their constitutional & civil rights, while peacefully protesting and demanding accountability from the police was the straw that broke the camel's back for many. This is what caused tensions to reach the boiling point resulting in a riot. Nothing but screw ups from the Police since the shooting.

And you or others dare to refer to them as thieving animals?

I don't condone the rioting, but at least when the residents of Ferguson rose up only property was damaged. The same can not be said for those who rose up against the BLM. They came locked & loaded, and ready to kill & be killed. Had the 23,000 residents of Ferguson or perhaps even the small group who did riot instead chose armed confrontation, what would have been the result?

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24KT

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Re: 100 Dead Blacks vs 5000 Dead Blacks - what gets more coverage?
« Reply #212 on: August 24, 2014, 01:46:31 AM »
Agreed. When a culture glorifies having served prison time, having "kills" under one's belt, being financially irresponsible, committing domestic violence, joining criminal enterprises such as street gangs, and has an entertainment subculture that continuously glorifies and encourages these things as well, there are bound to be endless problems within such a culture.

The only "cultures" glorifying having served prison time, or having "kills" under one's belt, being financially irresponsible, committing domestic violence etc., etc., are "criminal cultures" & "military".

That's not Black culture. That's criminal culture. Your comments reveal an unstated mindset that says simply because the majority of Ferguson's residents are Black, they support these things. Free your mind! ::)
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Archer77

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Re: 100 Dead Blacks vs 5000 Dead Blacks - what gets more coverage?
« Reply #213 on: August 24, 2014, 06:03:12 AM »
Do you actually read something before you react? Those vehicles depicted have nothing to do with the uprising in Ferguson. Those were vehicles gifted to various Police Depts in Ohio, including campus police.

Do you really think university campuses have need for these. Do you really think they'll make the trek over to the chemistry lab a little safer?

Yes, it was the uprising in Ferguson that resulted in the National Guard being called in, however, it was the piss poor response of a militarized police force violating the rates of the citizens of Ferguson that lit the fuse to the rioting in the first place. That's what so many people seem to be missing.

The people in Ferguson... both Black & White, had had enough of being oppressed by a police that treats them and their community like a foreign war zone. The blatant violation & suppression of their constitutional & civil rights, while peacefully protesting and demanding accountability from the police was the straw that broke the camel's back for many. This is what caused tensions to reach the boiling point resulting in a riot. Nothing but screw ups from the Police since the shooting.

And you or others dare to refer to them as thieving animals?

I don't condone the rioting, but at least when the residents of Ferguson rose up only property was damaged. The same can not be said for those who rose up against the BLM. They came locked & loaded, and ready to kill & be killed. Had the 23,000 residents of Ferguson or perhaps even the small group who did riot instead chose armed confrontation, what would have been the result?



You live in an alternative reality.  This is the story in a nut shell.  Obese idiot robs liquor store, assaults cop, gets killed resulting in more idiots stealing stuff. This isn't an uprising.   It's only a matter of time before they return to killing and robbing each without any respect for human life.  They didnt rebel, they stole.
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Al Doggity

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Re: 100 Dead Blacks vs 5000 Dead Blacks - what gets more coverage?
« Reply #214 on: August 25, 2014, 12:56:33 PM »
Give this a read









http://www.city-journal.org/2008/18_2_criminal_justice_system.html


So, the very first sentence of that article shows where the author's agenda lies,
but I still skimmed it to see if the piece contained any worthwhile information.
It appears to contain all of the same distortions and misinterpretations as the
earlier piece you posted.

I'm not gonna do a line by line analysis, which wouldn't be worth it, as I'm sure you are already typing
your response about my selective liberal comprehension, but here are two things that jumped out.

He says that Michael Tonry wrote this:

“Racial differences in patterns of offending, not racial bias by police and other officials, are the principal reason that such greater proportions of blacks than whites are arrested, prosecuted, convicted and imprisoned,”

...but glosses over the fact that the very next sentence in the book is this:

"Those on the far right are likely to be offended by my conclusion that cynical policies of the Bush and Reagan administrations,
and not racial differences in patters of offending, are the principal reason that racial disparities in the justice system
steadily worsened after 1980."


...which is what I said.

The author of that piece also says this:
The media’s favorite criminologist, Alfred Blumstein, found in 1993 that blacks were significantly underrepresented in prison for homicide compared with their presence in arrest.

Though he seems to think that info supports his case, it actually does the opposite, if blacks are being arrested significantly more than they are being convicted, that means they are being falsely arrested at significantly higher levels.


For the record, I never said that blacks don't commit crimes at a higher proportional rate. I have actually agreed with that a few times in this thread. That doesn't change the fact that we are also arrested falsely more often, targeted for minor offenses more often, sentenced disproportianately,etc.

Al Doggity

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Re: 100 Dead Blacks vs 5000 Dead Blacks - what gets more coverage?
« Reply #215 on: August 25, 2014, 12:57:30 PM »
if the arrest rate would likely stay flat then youre saying it is more effective to perform stop and frisk on blacks than whites....WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT WE ARE SAYING!!!!!

That is not what I said. I said the arrest rate would likely stay flat. Not increase, not drop, likely stay flat. And still, that's beside the point.

JOHN MATRIX

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Re: 100 Dead Blacks vs 5000 Dead Blacks - what gets more coverage?
« Reply #216 on: August 25, 2014, 01:31:48 PM »
This thread is a classic example of what goes on in every political debate:

Facts/data/evidence is presented that counters the Lefty's stance, so he just cries racism.

They have nothing but emotion and the race card.

Al Doggity

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Re: 100 Dead Blacks vs 5000 Dead Blacks - what gets more coverage?
« Reply #217 on: August 25, 2014, 01:47:48 PM »
This thread is a classic example of what goes on in every political debate:

Facts/data/evidence is presented that counters the Lefty's stance, so he just cries racism.

They have nothing but emotion and the race card.

Almost every "fact" that Archer has presented has been inaccurate. The original article he posted was wildly inaccurate, his assertion that stop and frisk was effective was wrong,  this  latest article  just ignored whatever facts were inconvenient, even when they were contained within the very article. But, yeah, when being preached to while sitting in the front row of the choir, those "facts" must seem pretty convincing  ::)

24KT

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Re: 100 Dead Blacks vs 5000 Dead Blacks - what gets more coverage?
« Reply #218 on: August 25, 2014, 02:31:20 PM »
Almost every "fact" that Archer has presented has been inaccurate. The original article he posted was wildly inaccurate, his assertion that stop and frisk was effective was wrong,  this  latest article  just ignored whatever facts were inconvenient, even when they were contained within the very article. But, yeah, when being preached to while sitting in the front row of the choir, those "facts" must seem pretty convincing  ::)

He's an idiot, which is all too obvious for anyone who has eyes to see.
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