The Assault on Reason

[OzmO]

http://www.time.com/time/printout/0,8816,1622015,00.html

some interesting points from the article:

"A large and growing number of Americans are asking out loud: "What has happened to our country?" People are trying to figure out what has gone wrong in our democracy, and how we can fix it.

To take another example, for the first time in American history, the Executive Branch of our government has not only condoned but actively promoted the treatment of captives in wartime that clearly involves torture, thus overturning a prohibition established by General George Washington during the Revolutionary War. "

and

"It is simply no longer possible to ignore the strangeness of our public discourse. I know I am not alone in feeling that something has gone fundamentally wrong. In 2001, I had hoped it was an aberration when polls showed that three-quarters of Americans believed that Saddam Hussein was responsible for attacking us on Sept. 11. More than five years later, however, nearly half of the American public still believes Saddam was connected to the attack."

and

"It is too easy—and too partisan—to simply place the blame on the policies of President George W. Bush. We are all responsible for the decisions our country makes. We have a Congress. We have an independent judiciary. We have checks and balances. We are a nation of laws. We have free speech. We have a free press. Have they all failed us? Why has America's public discourse become less focused and clear, less reasoned? Faith in the power of reason—the belief that free citizens can govern themselves wisely and fairly by resorting to logical debate on the basis of the best evidence available, instead of raw power—remains the central premise of American democracy. This premise is now under assault."


and

"The potential for manipulating mass opinions and feelings initially discovered by commercial advertisers is now being even more aggressively exploited by a new generation of media Machiavellis. The combination of ever more sophisticated public opinion sampling techniques and the increasing use of powerful computers to parse and subdivide the American people according to "psychographic" categories that identify their susceptibility to individually tailored appeals has further magnified the power of propagandistic electronic messaging that has created a harsh new reality for the functioning of our democracy.

As a result, our democracy is in danger of being hollowed out. In order to reclaim our birthright, we Americans must resolve to repair the systemic decay of the public forum. We must create new ways to engage in a genuine and not manipulative conversation about our future. We must stop tolerating the rejection and distortion of science. We must insist on an end to the cynical use of pseudo-studies known to be false for the purpose of intentionally clouding the public's ability to discern the truth. Americans in both parties should insist on the re-establishment of respect for the rule of reason."



hmmmmm

[Old_Rooster]

"It is too easy—and too partisan—to simply place the blame on the policies of President George W. Bush. We are all responsible for the decisions our country makes. We have a Congress. We have an independent judiciary. We have checks and balances. We are a nation of laws. We have free speech. We have a free press. Have they all failed us? Why has America's public discourse become less focused and clear, less reasoned? Faith in the power of reason—the belief that free citizens can govern themselves wisely and fairly by resorting to logical debate on the basis of the best evidence available, instead of raw power—remains the central premise of American democracy. This premise is now under assault."

[Hedgehog]

A beautiful article.

It's time to stop playing the blame game, and start to lead by example.

-Hedge

[headhuntersix]

Don't hold ur breath..I'm sick of all of em.

[Cavalier22]

you should read "the assualt" by harry mulisch. good book

[Camel Jockey]

I will blame the policies of Bush.

This guy's heart is in the right place, but he's basically what I call a 'fox news type conservative'.. He demonstrates that here:

"It is too easy—and too partisan—to simply place the blame on the policies of President George W. Bush. We are all responsible for the decisions our country makes. We have a Congress. We have an independent judiciary. We have checks and balances. We are a nation of laws. We have free speech. We have a free press. Have they all failed us? Why has America's public discourse become less focused and clear, less reasoned? Faith in the power of reason—the belief that free citizens can govern themselves wisely and fairly by resorting to logical debate on the basis of the best evidence available, instead of raw power—remains the central premise of American democracy. This premise is now under assault."

Bush thinks intelligent design should be taught in public schools, which sounds like distortion of science to me. He's got a 29% approval rating, so the public is voicing their disfavor of him. We put politicians in place to check and balance, which they've failed to do. And there's not much free speech when the secret service pays a visit to anyone who speaks out against the president.

[OzmO]

The point he might be making there is that if the American public wasn't so easily manipulated we wouldn't have allowed ourselves to be put into this mess by someone like BUSH who took advantage of our Fear Hysteria in the aftermath of 9/11

[Camel Jockey]

The point he might be making there is that if the American public wasn't so easily manipulated we wouldn't have allowed ourselves to be put into this mess by someone like BUSH who took advantage of our Fear Hysteria in the aftermath of 9/11

I know what he was saying and I agree with him about almost everything. However, I'll reserve my right to be critical of the president and his lies. The people can only do so much and choose certain people.. We're limited in what we can do, so it comes down to our elected officials, who've been failing us for the last 7 years.

[OzmO]

I know what he was saying and I agree with him about almost everything. However, I'll reserve my right to be critical of the president and his lies. The people can only do so much and choose certain people.. We're limited in what we can do, so it comes down to our elected officials, who've been failing us for the last 7 years.

I share much of the same view.   

[Slapper]

I agree with the guy in that not all blame ought to be put on Butch(er). I remember walking home on 09/11 from Church street, rigth next to the WTC and hearing many opinions and things like "we gotta nuke these motherfuckers!", "if I find an Arab I'm gonna kill him!", et cetera.

There was a feeling all around of total disbelief, as though the town bully had gotten knocked out flat on his ass, and MANY people wanted blood, with the media cheerleading this feeling, and feeding it, along the way.

Along came the first post-09/11 trigger-happy guy and many years later we're lamenting his Administration (or lack thereof). Agreed, he took advantage of the situation, but when he won the second time around everyone knew it was no coincidence: A greater part of America was still blood thirsty.

Now here we are, complaining about the media not telling us that Guantánamo, Abu Ghraib and plenty of other out of reach places were really torture facilities. The chief of the CIA goes on TV outright lies by saying "we do not torture people" and we throw our hands in the air in disbelief.

Grow up! It's Americans who failed Americans.

[Camel Jockey]

I agree with the guy in that not all blame ought to be put on Butch(er). I remember walking home on 09/11 from Church street, rigth next to the WTC and hearing many opinions and things like "we gotta nuke these motherfuckers!", "if I find an Arab I'm gonna kill him!", et cetera.

There was a feeling all around of total disbelief, as though the town bully had gotten knocked out flat on his ass, and MANY people wanted blood, with the media cheerleading this feeling, and feeding it, along the way.

Along came the first post-09/11 trigger-happy #### and many years later we're lamenting his Administration (or lack thereof). Agreed, he took advantage of the situation, but when he won the second time around everyone knew it was no coincidence: A greater part of America was still blood thirsty.

Now here we are, complaining about the media not telling us that Guantánamo, Abu Ghraib and plenty of other out of reach places were really torture facilities. The chief of the CIA goes on TV outright lies by saying "we do not torture people" and we throw our hands in the air in disbelief.

Grow up! It's Americans who failed Americans.

Damn! You were in the downtown area? Must have seen some some horrific things.. 

Of course a share of the blame lies with ignorant americans.. The same idiots who stick 'These colors don't run' stickers on their suburbans and can't locate Iraq on a globe.  But this group is a minority and I believe the majority of americans are good and smart enough to know right from wrong. That's why Bush has a 29% approval rating atm. 

[Slapper]

Damn! You were in the downtown area? Must have seen some some horrific things.. 

Of course a share of the blame lies with ignorant americans.. The same idiots who stick 'These colors don't run' stickers on their suburbans and can't locate Iraq on a globe.  But this group is a minority and I believe the majority of americans are good and smart enough to know right from wrong. That's why Bush has a 29% approval rating atm. 

Yes, I was there. I used to work for BoNY (The Bank of NY) at 100 Church Street (right next to the post office building) and we had a privileged view of the first hit. Although I did not see anything gruesome, although I do know some people who saw very ugly things. I did see a  huge-ass airplane engine parked right in front of our building...

Any way, instead of calming down, collecting our thoughts and seeking the consensus of the international community, we just went at it full out, courtesy of a president and vice-president who had all of this planned out well in advance, into countries that had NOTHING to do with 9/11.

I suspect that the next time something happens in the US no one will help us out. We'll be up shit creek without a paddle. Well, we do have Israel. And Papua New Guinea. And the Marshall Islands. Well... Technically these belong to us.

Look, either we tame this "let's pre-emptively fuck everyone" attitude or nature will kick our asses out of existance. It has happened to other empires and will happen to us unless we get smart. Where do we start? Take all of these baby-boomers out of positions of power. They still have that 1942 mentality and the emotional pull of the 60s and 70s (their version of a "good" America).

This is a totally different world and either we adapt to it or nature will take us out. That I do not doubt!

[Camel Jockey]

Yes, I was there. I used to work for BoNY (The Bank of NY) at 100 Church Street (right next to the post office building) and we had a privileged view of the first hit. Although I did not see anything gruesome, although I do know some people who saw very ugly things. I did see a  huge-ass airplane engine parked right in front of our building...

Any way, instead of calming down, collecting our thoughts and seeking the consensus of the international community, we just went at it full out, courtesy of a president and vice-president who had all of this planned out well in advance, into countries that had NOTHING to do with 9/11.

I suspect that the next time something happens in the US no one will help us out. We'll be up shit creek without a paddle. Well, we do have Israel. And Papua New Guinea. And the Marshall Islands. Well... Technically these belong to us.

Look, either we tame this "let's pre-emptively fuck everyone" attitude or nature will kick our asses out of existance. It has happened to other empires and will happen to us unless we get smart. Where do we start? Take all of these baby-boomers out of positions of power. They still have that 1942 mentality and the emotional pull of the 60s and 70s (their version of a "good" America).

This is a totally different world and either we adapt to it or nature will take us out. That I do not doubt!

Very well said.

[ToxicAvenger]

I know what he was saying and I agree with him about almost everything.

you cannot agree with the knowlodge that the general population ws manipilated and still believe that someones heart is in the right place..

having a " heart in the right place" simply means that said person believes he is doing good regardless of whether its actually good or not.

Al-queda also have their hearts in the right place. 

[240 is Back]

People are waking up - the drop in poll numbers from 70+% to 29%+ is a VERY strong indicator of that.  

Even if people believe polls are skewed to the left - they cannot deny a 40% drop in the same polling group.

[ToxicAvenger]

Yes, I was there. I used to work for BoNY (The Bank of NY) at 100 Church Street (right next to the post office building) and we had a privileged view of the first hit. Although I did not see anything gruesome, although I do know some people who saw very ugly things. I did see a  huge-ass airplane engine par......

well said..except you r going on the premise that they believe in darwanism. Bush is fueled by his religion.


..or at least thats what he's selling..

[Slapper]

well said..except you r going on the premise that they believe in darwanism. Bush is fueled by his religion.

..or at least thats what he's selling..

Hey, in PCB (post Clinton's blowjob) America, GWB came across as another Enlightened One and he kept saying what everyone was longing to hear. Needless to say he became what ultimately the majority of Corporerublicans are: Mutant beings that do not hesitate one second in changing sides depending on where the moola, el dinero, is.

Sad reality.

[ToxicAvenger]

Hey, in PCB (post Clinton's blowjob) America, GWB came across as another Enlightened One and he kept saying what everyone was longing to hear. Needless to say he became what ultimately the majority of Corporerublicans are: Mutant beings that do not hesitate one second in changing sides depending on where the moola, el dinero, is.

Sad reality.

i like that PCB America..

anyhow..

whats bad  is that in PCB America Mass slaughter is considered A-OK under the guise of " right thing to do "...whats worse is the horrible realization (at least to a transplanted 3rd worlder) that people are JUST AS GULLABLE(read : brainwashed) HERE...yet they continue to ask the hypocritical question " why do 'they' hate us so much" NOt realizing that people on the other side of the pond similarly brain washed are asking THE SAME FUCKING QUESTION.

[Camel Jockey]

you cannot agree with the knowlodge that the general population ws manipilated and still believe that someones heart is in the right place..

having a " heart in the right place" simply means that said person believes he is doing good regardless of whether its actually good or not.

Al-queda also have their hearts in the right place. 

Try and be a little more coherent. You can't expect me to analyze your coke and scotch talk. 

[ToxicAvenger]

Try and be a little more coherent. You can't expect me to analyze your coke and scotch talk. 

i wont apologize for YOUR American high skooling