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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Injury and Rehabilitation => Topic started by: bigjay34 on March 05, 2005, 11:57:10 AM
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I hurt my shoulder about 8 months ago, i took 2 months off from training. During that time my doctor gave me anti-inflammation medication. I resumed training only to have the same pain, my doctor thought it was tendinitis, but he referred me to a chiropractic surgeon who deals only with shoulders. I saw him finally last week and he told me that i had an ac joint problem it is where the clavicle and the scapula bones connect. He told me bodybuilders usually develop this problem, and to prove it he froze the area and the pain was gone. To fix this problem i would need a surgical procedure [about 40 min] to proform. Has anyone else had any experience with this type of injury?? Check these sites, you might be suffering from this as well.
http://www.physsportsmed.com/issues/2001/11_01/johnson.htm
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Hey man,
Unfortunately I have had 2 of these surgeries >:( Both shoulders got messed up pretty bad from football and lifting. I had my last surgery in December right before christmas and I am healing just fine. The surgery was the only option for me to become pain free so it was a no-brainer. Typically you are back lifting lightly within 3-4 weeks. The basically take out the joint (cartilage and bone which cause the pain) leaving behind the ligaments. I say go for it man, its like a new shoulder when its all healed. I have no regrets.
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I hurt my shoulder about 8 months ago, i took 2 months off from training. During that time my doctor gave me anti-inflammation medication. I resumed training only to have the same pain, my doctor thought it was tendinitis, but he referred me to a chiropractic surgeon who deals only with shoulders. I saw him finally last week and he told me that i had an ac joint problem it is where the clavicle and the scapula bones connect. He told me bodybuilders usually develop this problem, and to prove it he froze the area and the pain was gone. To fix this problem i would need a surgical procedure [about 40 min] to proform. Has anyone else had any experience with this type of injury?? Check these sites, you might be suffering from this as well.
http://www.physsportsmed.com/issues/2001/11_01/johnson.htm
I have the same problem. I have too go and get both my shoulders done. How long was the recovery time for you??
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With the first shoulder (left one) it took me 3 weeks and I was back lifting, although very light of course. My second operation (right one) took me about five weeks to even think about lifting a weight...I was much more sore with this one. It is still sore at times but i push past the pain a little to where I know im not causing damage because it is gunna be somewhat painful in the beginning. Im now back to full strength where I can push as much as I used to.
Im also seeing it as a blessing in disguise. Maybe I was pushing my body past extremes when I was younger and this forced me to bea smarter BBuilder. I am making gains like crazy now from all the time I had to sit out. Plus the time away gives you an incredible motivation to get back in the gym.
I would say go for it. It was certainly the right choice for me. I hate meds too so i didnt take any post surgery...the first 3-4 days are miserable, you are in pain the entire time. Totally worth it man. To me it was like a new shoulder.
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BigJay,
Your situation sounds almost identical to mine in almost every sense. I too injured my AC joint (partial tear) told to take a couple of months off for it to heal, but then when I tried returning to working out the pain came back and began getting worse. It particularly affects pressing movements and moving my arm across my body. I pretty much have not been able to do any chest workout for 9 months now as benching or pressing really hurts it. Well eventually saw a top shoulder specialist and had MRI's Xrays and the painkilling injection to prove the problem in my AC joint! Well, like you the AC joint had began to degenerate, as the clavicle and acromium rubbed together wearing away the cartiledge and the bones rubbing! The jont began popping and getting really painful and pretty much forced me off lifting upper body! I was told I would need surgery to fix the problem as it would never heal alone. I had the distal end of my clavicle removed and a subacromial decrompression also. I had an open operation and arthroscopy to do the bursectomy and check the rest of the shoulder for problems.... thank God it was all clear and this was all that was wrong. If I had carried on training with it I would have done more damage! I actually had the surgery done just last week, (wed 16th March) so am starting recovery. I pray to God that this surgery will end my problems as this past year has been an absolute nightmare for me and has put me in tears many times dude. So my thoughts go out to you and VaTech and Strongman. It is an absolute bitch of an injury as im sure you can attest.
If you ever need any advice I am more than happy to help man. Do not hesitate to ask.
VaTech,
Your testomy has given me great hope of fully recovering. My doc says I should get full use back and full return to lifting after the recovery but it doesnt stop you from worrying about it!! I feel a bit sore but getting better every day, the clicking is gone whcih is a good sign.
I would love to talk with you VaTech and share advice/ hear your story is thats ok (email samcorble@hotmail.com)
I love to hear that now its like you have a new shoulder. I cannot wait to get back to lifting and get over this nightmare! Are your shoulders now completely better now after surgery man, and can you now bench and shoulder press like before without pain?? I used to row for Great Britain under 21's and was on course for 2008 olympics. I have been forced out now due to injury (this and groin) but hope to take up some serious bodybuilding, and maybe get back into rowing just not at the top level as I now have career too. Working out is my main passion in life and I cannot live without it.
How long was your recovery VaTech? How long till you were back.... doc said about 4 months till im back like new. I cannot wait. Do you have any tips for the recovery proecess and rehab? I would love to hear your story.
I advise anyone who had this unfortunate injury to get it sorted asap and get the surgery done soon!
I too see the injury as somewhat of a blessing in disguise, I now have so much more respect for my body and awareness of how it works and staying injury free, its a tough way to learn tho. I have so much motivation for training built up now that I am ready to burst man.... I am fed up of trainging legs all the bloody time!!!!!!
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Hi Sambo12,
was your pain located on the front part of the shoulder when you lifted; I've done an MRI and they told me it was a bursitis, but amn it has been 18 months since I can't lift, so I'm wondering maybe I'm suffering from the same condition.
Hope you'll answer man.
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I suffer from the same pain, both shoulders are in pain after bench or shoulder press. It started in my left shoulder about 6 months. I thought it was the muscle rubbing on the bump from my broken colar bone and then my right shoulder developed the same problem. I have not been able to lift any where as heavy as I use to.
Now at least I have an idea what may be causing my problem, so when I go to the Dr. at least I will know if the Dr. has a clue.
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Hey guys.
Tubbs,
My heart goes out man that you have been out of lifting for so long, that is harsh and obviously is a problem that cannot be sorted out by rest. I think you know it needs surgery, just like I did. I realised the problem would never get better if I did not have an operation. My doc is brilliant and a sports shoulder specialist!! Here is the tests he did, and maybe you can ask for theses to find out if it is DCO. MRI scans are inconclusive for this condition and can be missinterpreted so it could well be this!
If when the pain flares up say after use of the shoulder, than you can do what is called a palpatation test by having someone raise you arm all the way abouve your head (like a lateral raise but all the way up to vertical)and at the same time pressing hard on you AC joint and palpatating that spot. (the bump on outside of shoulder on top). If its tender thats a sign.
Mine was poven by having a painkilling injection straight into my AC joint, than my pain was gone, still popping but no pain. Obviously a doc needs to do this test. X-rays are also good, mine showed up a wearing in the AC joint and the sides of the gap are not quite smooth.
Also I felt a popping sensation in my AC joint when I moved it in certain ways and could actually feel it popping past when I put my finger on it and pressed forward.
Also in answer to your question my pain was located on the top of my shoulder right on and below the AC joint. But I did get additional pain radiating down my arm.
Also, it could well be the condition bursitis where your bursal sac loacted between the acromium and humerous had been compressed and torn and become inflamed. When I had my operation I also had a small part of my bursal sac removed and a little of the underside of my acromium shaved to stop any rubbing, so it seems by the doc doing that that this is also an injury requiring surgical intervention. If this is your problem you would get pain during lateral anf front raises where this gap is narrowed!
Hope that helps,
Ruhl,
Again I hope the above info helps man. I would advise going to see a real shoulder specialist, its worth the money to get fixed man!! Even if you just use him to diagnose it! Explain my situation to him if you go and tell of your similarities!
Again try and locate the pain and do the tests your self, get Xrays, and the injection, Also MRI if you can, it will only show a bright light over your AC joint though, but this reveals that abnormal inflamation and swelling is present.
Im always happy to answer any questions about the shoulders and especially this condition as I know how tough it is to handle.
I you do have it, dont mess around, get the surgery ASAP!!!!!!
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Thanks for answering so fast Sambo, I'm really confused now...If you can't rely on professionals to read an MRI, then where are we heading to >:( I've been training for the last 4 or 5 months but so so lightly, I can't even consider it training; sometimes I wonder if I'm gonna be able to train the way I used to and just like you, the thought of it put me in tears (a big thank you to Big Ant from this board btw for always telling me good advice of what to do). One thing that's for sure, I have a bursitis, so could I ask for an arthroscopy? I went to the best orthopaedist of the area and he said that my shoulders were sagging forward and that for this reason the acromion and the humerous were consistently touching one another, that I needed to do some physio to change this. What's your opinion Sambo?
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I think you need to check with you doc to see if there is anything permanantly damaged in your shoulder. IF MRI scans do not show anything, talk to him about the possibility of having a look inside your shoulder with an arthroscope.
Yeah, sagging shoulders and poor posture can cause shoulder problems. When training remember not to do too much chest work, and train your muscles which have probably been neglected over the years:
Inner and lower traps,
serratus anterior,
Rhomboid major and minor,
Rear deltoid,
External rotator cuff muscles,
This should help restore a balance to your body and bring your shoudlers back in line.
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Yeah, thanks Sambo; hope I'll be soon back on track just like you :)
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Hey guys,
Yeah as I said I had both shoulders done. My right one was just done in december and I am lifting somewhat unlimited. It still hurts but they took a lot of bone out and that takes a long time to heal. I have no pain in my left (which the doc said was the worst case he had seen in anyone my age in all his years) which was operated on in june of 04. My right is still sensitive, I limit my presses to 2 at the most on chest day. I can bench again and all is well. The only thing i cant do to this day without pain is cable crossovers for chest, so i just avoid them. If i do more than 2 pressing exercises the bones start to rub and grind which is a sign that my joint is weakening so then i just call it quits...
The surgery was a lifesaver for me. Bodybuilding and fitness is a huuuuuuuuge part of my life and I am happy to say that I am almost 100% again! ;D ;D ;D
If any of you have a choice or chance to get this surgery done with a well respected doc i say go for it guys, it was the best decision i ever made. I dealt with pain for 2 years and its almost fully gone. Good luck to all of you. If you have any questions keep posting or PM me.
PEACE
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Hello, I have had the same problem with my shoulder for the same length of time.I am a 29 year old body builder and had the end of my clavical removed two weeks ago to the day. I have made a very fast recovery and can return to work next week. I hope to start training again in about four weeks after an appointment with my doctor.
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Hey Va Tech,
good to hear from you man, Im glad your recovering so well dude, especially after the sounds of that first one.... Is that fully healed now?? Do you still get pain pressing with that shoulder (left) when you work out now? or is it the freshly operated right shoulder which causes you to back off?
Also when you say you limit your presses to 2, do you mean only two sets?
How much did you have taken out when you had both your operations?
Also how long were you in a sling for? and when did you begin PT?
thanks for keeping in touch bro.
Hey Rich,
So your about a week ahead of me man, so useful for us to chart are recovery. What do you do for work man, I am a builder so I have been told to have 6 weeks off work, I really hate being off work it drives me inssane and cannot wait to get back. Its pretty bad timing as this is my year out from university as im doing a masters in sept. If i was doing desk work iwould have been fine to return after a couple of days!
Hows your pain and ROM now? Are you doing PT now? Ive still got a few more days till i start.
later guys!
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Hey Sambo and others,
My left is pretty much fully healed and pain free. The only pain i get is from my right which was due to surgery and the amount of bone taken out and the fact that it wasnt too long ago. In both surgeries the doc took out 1 cm of tissue directly between the joint. He also did some other smoothing of the bones around the joint so the exact amount i dont know. I was in a sling for less than a week maybe 4-5 days, though it was still painful, I just wanted out of that thing. Never had any sort of PT.
By limiting my presses to 2 i mean i do only 2 pressing exercises per workout with chest. For example, I will do only incline press followed by flat press, however i do 4-5 working sets in each. I will follow that with 1 or 2 exercises involving flye movements. If i was to go onto a third pressing exercise in the same workout my bones begin to grind a lot, so i just avoid this by doing 2. SO it has really forced me to be smart about training, I learned the limits my body can handle and I have seen a lot of success in the gym because of it.
Im sure i havent seen the last of my shoulder problems. I was so young to develop this that im sure i'll be paying for it down the road when im much older. Keep in touch guys. I go to school for exercise science so if you have any sort of questions im sure i can be of some service to yall. PEACE
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Hey VaTech,
good to hear thats it not just 2 sets total.......
How about training your shoulders now?? How much can you do here? Can you do dumbbell and barbell presses now? Also are there any exercises that you have eliminated from your workout now after surgery....?
for example do you now do Dips, BN press?
Its good to hear your doing flyes again. Since tearing my AC I have not been able to do these, but hope I ll be able to get back and do afew (although light and not too deep).... I used to do exessive ROM and go really deep for a big stretch as it felt like it was really working the muscle. I attribute this to my problems and when I return am going to keep my ROM in normal ranges and never go too far back/deep and stretch the shoulders beyond what is healthy!
Thanks for any help man!
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Hey Sambo,
I have not done any BB shoulder or DB shoulder presses just as a precautionary. I will try to start them here in a few weeks. I use mainly Iso-hammer presses for my posterior delts and I am pain free. They help keep my shoulder in line while its not at its strongest yet, but it will be in time and I will go back to the free weight presses for shoulders.
I just did some dips the other day and there was a little twinge in the shoulders but bearable. I contribute Weighted Dips to most of my shoulder problems. since high school I would do them with extreme weight. I would use 3 plates (135lbs) attached to a belt, I think they promoted a lot of wear and tear. I do them soley with body weight now and probably from now on.
My flye movements have become restricetd in their movement for now since near the end of my workouts my right shoulder tends to get really tender on chest day. I dont get nearly the stretch i used to but i think that will come back with time. I dont go as far as you said you used to, but i did get a good stretch in there. Now I keep my elbows bent a good deal at the bottom to get a little extra stretch, slmost like a modified benching movement.
I can do BB bench somewhat pain free as long as my form is impeccable and I dont touch my chest. When I touch my chest both shoulders begin to hate me, so I tend to stick with dumbells for flat bench. The case may be different with you when you are healed.
How far post-op are you? Yours sounds worse than mine since I never actually tore my ac joint completely. It was multiple slight tears and the ligaments loosening and stretching that put my joint at risk for rubbing and degeneration of the joint causing arthritis in the joint. Hope you are feeling better.
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Ok, here I have a question for you all: let's say you "only" have a bursitis, just like me, and that whatever therapy you do the pain and inflammation just won't go away, even after 19 months (me)...would a surgery be viable, if so what kind of surgery?
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Tubbs,
Do you continue to lift with this problem, or have you taken 19 months off and still not healed. If the latter is true then I would go see another doctor and get a second opinion. If you continue to lift and it just wont go away it only will really heal with adequate rest. If could even be worse than bursitis since bursitis should clear up with rest and anit-inflammatories. It could be an advanced stage of tendinitis called tendinosis. This is the breakdown of tendon tissue do to overuse and not enough time to heal. Tendinosis treatment also requires a longer period of rest than bursitis or tendinitis, to allow for tendon regeneration.
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Ok, here's what happened: in september 2003 I began having trouble training pecs and delts, went to my doctor, gave me anti-inflammatories, and it was all good the next two weeks...then, impossible to do pecs and delts anymore, but I was still able to do heavy arms and back work until late november 2003; at this point, even doing light curls or bb rows was painful, so I took 4 months off from upper body training (doing physio and chiro during this time); in march 2004, a friend of mine who was an ex european pro, told me to train my upper body again but with very very light weights...and I have been at it since then, but things are not going better. I avoid all overhead movements, and stretch a lot...I'm really depressed at this point because I've lost more than 25 pounds in the process, can't imagine what I will look like if I take another 4 or 6 months off from upper body training :'(
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I feel your pain man... :-\ I lost 20 lbs in the stretch of 2 years before my surgeries. I honestly would go see another doctor, a shoulder specialist if possible. Demand an MRI and see what is really going on in there because that is not normal and you should not have to deal with the pain for so long. I strongly recommend a specialist because it sounds like its a chronic thing and its not gunna heal on its own.
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Thanks for the advice man, I wish you a speedy recovery :)
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Ok, here's what happened: in september 2003 I began having trouble training pecs and delts, went to my doctor, gave me anti-inflammatories, and it was all good the next two weeks...then, impossible to do pecs and delts anymore, but I was still able to do heavy arms and back work until late november 2003; at this point, even doing light curls or bb rows was painful, so I took 4 months off from upper body training (doing physio and chiro during this time); in march 2004, a friend of mine who was an ex european pro, told me to train my upper body again but with very very light weights...and I have been at it since then, but things are not going better. I avoid all overhead movements, and stretch a lot...I'm really depressed at this point because I've lost more than 25 pounds in the process, can't imagine what I will look like if I take another 4 or 6 months off from upper body training :'(
What were the physio and chiro getting you to do?
Did it make any difference?
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No, it didn't make any difference unfortunately...I have also tried acupuncture and deep tissue massage; by the way, do you think doing deep tissue massage frequently will help with the inflammation? Like I said, the last physio I've seen told me that my shoulders were sagging and that it was the origin of my problem.
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Hey Sambo,
I have not done any BB shoulder or DB shoulder presses just as a precautionary. I will try to start them here in a few weeks. I use mainly Iso-hammer presses for my posterior delts and I am pain free. They help keep my shoulder in line while its not at its strongest yet, but it will be in time and I will go back to the free weight presses for shoulders.
I just did some dips the other day and there was a little twinge in the shoulders but bearable. I contribute Weighted Dips to most of my shoulder problems. since high school I would do them with extreme weight. I would use 3 plates (135lbs) attached to a belt, I think they promoted a lot of wear and tear. I do them soley with body weight now and probably from now on.
My flye movements have become restricetd in their movement for now since near the end of my workouts my right shoulder tends to get really tender on chest day. I dont get nearly the stretch i used to but i think that will come back with time. I dont go as far as you said you used to, but i did get a good stretch in there. Now I keep my elbows bent a good deal at the bottom to get a little extra stretch, slmost like a modified benching movement.
I can do BB bench somewhat pain free as long as my form is impeccable and I dont touch my chest. When I touch my chest both shoulders begin to hate me, so I tend to stick with dumbells for flat bench. The case may be different with you when you are healed.
How far post-op are you? Yours sounds worse than mine since I never actually tore my ac joint completely. It was multiple slight tears and the ligaments loosening and stretching that put my joint at risk for rubbing and degeneration of the joint causing arthritis in the joint. Hope you are feeling better.
Yo Tech, Correction on when i said i 'tore' my AC ligament. I only partially tore it, so not too bad, it just never properly healed enough to provide stability in my AC joint and hence the pain and inflamation resulting in the distal clavicle resection. So alot like your situation really, partial tear and degeneration.
Question: Are you not training shoulders because of your fresh surgery on your other shoulder?? Is your other shoulder that you had done first now strong enough to press with??
My shoulder pressing was not too badly effected my the injury and it was mainly pressing infront of my body (bench, dips etc) that caused me realy pain. crossing my arm across my body also was bad as it causes compression of the joint.... In fact I was still able to shoulder press with 90lb dumbbells shortly before going in for the surgery. So i think my shoulder pressing function should be fairly quick to return. My main obstacle will (i think) be getting back to chest pressing exercises. I plan on modifiying my presses now. Keeping my ROM smaller and not going too deep anymore. Also I will work mainly with dumbells as the stess on the shoulder joint is alot less. Alowing you to change the angle of your hands to protect shoulders. Like you say, keep the bar (if i do go back to bench sometimes) a couple of inches from touching chest. keeping grip close etc.
I found during my injury that barbell shoulder presses were the only ones that caused bad pain, so shoulders will be hit by dumbbell presses and parrellel grip Hammer Strength machine.
Any ways really appreciate all the advice/etc from you VaTech.......
keep in touch man X :P
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Hey Sambo,
Whats up, dude? Hows the arm now, man?
Before my surgery I really just stopped with almost all upperbody exercises because it began to hurt me that much. Plus I was so depressed and down on myself since a major part of my life (bodybuilding and fitness) was taken away. I hate the fact taht I couldnt work out and I hated the way I began to look.
But you are right the only pressing exercise that cause me a great deal of pain has always been chest pressing, flat more than incline. I am pretty much back to enough of my previous strength where I can push myself pretty far. Im confident in my joint strength to where I am not limited in anyway really. What does hurt me I just avoid (only cable crossovers for chest really). In a couple weeks im going to get back to DB and BB presses on shoulder day, I have been using the machines to be cautious in the early going, but I feel im ready to get back to them. And like I mentioned and as you did as well in your last post, I do limit range of motion on chest day. If I push it I can feel my shoulder start to get mad at me.
What about you man how is your recovery going? When was your surgery? Are you lifting yet? Are you recovering fast? Was surgery the right choice for you as well?
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Hey VaTech,
Good to hear from you.
I know just how you feel about having to stop all upperbody training due to the pain. And like you I found the mental pain after that just as hard. Like you I got really depressed and miserable about loosing so much size and muscle that had taken years of hard work and dedication to build. Bodybuilding is a major part of my life and I am not the same when I cant do it. Surgery was the only option for me as I knew I had to return to serious lifting and only the surgery could gaurantee me this. The worst part about all this was when I didnt know what was really wrong and why things were just getting worse. now i know what is wrong and know i am on the correct path to recovery am much happier. It helps hearing about your recovery as even though the doc says eventually i will make afull recovery and return to lifting it doesnt stop me from worrying a bit.
Well, my shoulder is getting better each day really, and the pain gets better all the time. Starting PT now as the pendulum exercises etc have been taken as far as they can go..... My surgery was 2 weeks ago tommorrow! The surgery was without doubt the right choice for me.... It was in fact the only choice. I knew that it was never going to get better by itself no matter how much rehab or rest. My doc pretty much said the same: when osteolysis starts its not gonna stop without surgery or stopping lifting (NOT AN OPTION!!!) I already feel better and the popping and catching has stopped..... just a little from scar tissue forming! Having the surgery I know I am going to get better in a matter of months, without it there is just no certaintly!
How much strengh have you got back on your pressing now?? What type of dumbbells are you able to push? I think im gonna stick mainly to the dumbbells after recovery for their kinder motion in the shoulder joint.
Also dude, if you hit me with an email (click onthat little envelope thing) I will be able to forward you something that I know you will really appreciate!!!!!
Till next time bro :o
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I just come from the gym, was doing back, light...haven't been able to do pull-downs with 60 pounds without hurting like hell, god I used to warm up with 120; I left the gym with tears in my eyes...Does anyone knows here what kind of surgery would be available when you have a bursitis? Remove part of the humerus? Of the acromion? This gotta stop, I can't take it anymore :-\
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I really think I need a subacromial decompression guys. I know this surgery may have some complications, all I want is to be able to lift again like I used to, but I'm scarred of the possible consequences of this surgery :-\
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Tubbs,
Man, dont worry! You will get over this and get back to FULL fitness.
Seriously do not worry about the dangers of a subacromial decrompression because really there are almost none. When I had my clavicel resection I also had a mild subacromial decrompression. He removed a portion of my bursa and shaved a little of my acromium. If busitis is what you have, and the doc has conformed this then go for the surgery. Get it done and get it done yesterday!!!!!!
The only risks are like with any surgery ie. infection....... but it is only a tiny risk. believe me modern medicine is a wonderful thing and these guys can fix anything. My doc tells me I will make a full return to lifting and get a total recover from th pain I had........ bear in mind I had a sub/ac decrompression and a distal clavicle resection. Im getting better every day, and feel like im really healing better. Already some of my pre-operation symptoms have gone and the shoulder is recovering well.
I totally sympathise with how you feel man, its really emotional feeling like you cannot lift.... and being in so much pain. But dude, I knew that surgery was the only thing going to fix me. After trying to rehab the shoulder and it not getting better I wanted the surgery ASAP. I got it as soon as I possibily could. Because then I knew I wouild recover and finally KNOW I was going to get better, I can finally look forward again and not back. I know I will make a total recover and get pumped and huge once more. No doubt about it!!!! you will too. Just have faith in these professionals who have been carrying out procedures such as these for years and years. They know what they are doing!!!!
Get better soon buddy and keep in touch!
Give me an email and forwards you some info that may help!
later brother
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Hey Sambo,
Im about 75-80% of my old strength and stamina. I push around 205-225 on incline for reps and follow that with flat DB with 80-90s (I stay light because these do cause a little pain for me still). Ill be near 100% in a month or so at this rate, since my weights are picking back up quickly.
What are you going to forward me? My mom always said dont talk to strangers :(
Tubbs,
You sound a lot like me when I was in your situation. Man what is stopping you from going into a doctors office and seeing what they can do for you??? Like sambo said I would have done this a long time ago. Demand an explanation from a specialists, sometimes thats the only way they will listen. As far as risk of surgery, yes there are some. Infection is a small risk, and nerve damage is a greater risk. But if you want to lift, its the chance you are going to have to take like sambo and I did. Its worth it bro...you will get back in the gym, its the only way :-\
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VaTech,
Thats good news on the heavy weights your able to push now after surgery. Im sure youll be back to real heavy soon. Also Tubbs thats good advice that Tech is giving you. Listen to us both: SEE AN EXPERT AND DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO PUT YOU RIGHT!!!!
I would like to forward some tips on recovery. Got an email from a Legend Bodybuider giving me some tips from recovery from shoulder injuries! If you mom has made you paranoid, then no worries bro!
Speak soon buddy.
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Thanks to both of you for the support, yeah I'm going to see a specialist. Also, could you forward me those tips Sambo?! PM me and I will send you my e-mail.
Thanks again bro!
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Sambo,
I was just kiddin man. P and Ill give you my e-mail, or I'll just e-mail you sometime this week when school isnt so retarded. Good luck, Tubbs. Get better soon! Talk to you both soon. Out!
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AN UPDATE ON MY RECOVERY
Well its now almost 4 weeks since the surgery and my shoulder is getting better and better!! The pain gets less each day and I have had full ROM for a while and am now doing a full range of rehab exercises with pretty much no pain. I am focusing on my rotator cuff strength, my postural muscles and scapular control. The scar is pretty big but not a problem for me as I dont care as long as I get better.
Have been to see my surgeon today for routine check-up. He was really pleased at my recovery and amazed how fast i was getting my strength and movement back. He had the results back from the lab where my excised AC joint and camera images were sent for analysis. There was moderate to severe osteoarthriris/ osteolysis in the AC joint. That was my ONLY problem and now I dont have that joint any more (well only a reconstructed form of it) so ther is no chance of any more problems there. I was really pleases that there was a definite problem found there and that now it has been fixed.
In about a week I will start with some light weights for back/ biceps/ triceps. Chest and shoulders will take a while longer. I have been training legs and my left side frequently and as a result my stregth/ muscle has not decreased too much since surgery.
Any question from anyone id be happy to answer.
I hope everyone else is good and recovering well or getting over their injuries.
love to you all
Sam ;D
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Happy to hear you're getting better Sambo! You'll be back in teh gym after only 5 weeks?! Wow, I thought it would take longer, good news.
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I never left the gym really, just stayed doing legs and bit and pieces.
When I say back to the gym I do not mean going back and lfiting like before. I mean starting with next to no weight and over a time period of months upping the weight again. It is a very long process...... but being proactive in your recovery can help speed things. I am very conscious of not overdoing it and pushing too hard however. Im taking things real cautious as it was my gung ho appraoch to recovery and jumping back too early whcih attribute as the root of my problem which later required surgery as a result.
But as things stand the recovery seems great, and now my shoulder is behaving like it would normally after injury.... ie getting slowly better each day, as opposed to before where it just got progressivly worse. Still i guess thats arthritis for you, just doesnt heal itself!
How are you Tubbs?? whats the diagnosis? Are you going to get cut open?
Good luck man
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UPDATE:
Back to doing some light lifting and have total ROM with no pain now.
Here is some of the stuff I can do now:
Dumbbell rows- 15kg
Laterals- 2.5k
Cable rows- 20k
Bench- 45lb
Able to do skipping
Its all very light, but its a start!!
Laters
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I like the fact you have a total ROM WITHOUT pain. Sounds really like good news for me too. 3 weeks after surgery you can do rows with 15 kilos without pain, pretty impressive after such a short time :)
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Yeah Tubbs recovery seems very consistent whcih is great, and things get better each week.
I had a physio session at the hospital yesterday and moved on to some exerxises with medicine balls... a 5kg to start then 7.5, 10kg.
Doing throwing and catching drills standing and on the floor. I was able to do overhead throws and catches with even the heaviest ball with pretty much no pain. This is really great as I havent been able to throw a ball/ play BBall etc for months..
Speak soon bro
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HEY TUBBS:
Sorry to read of your plight. From what you have described, it sounds like you have what is called impingement syndrome. A bursitis diagnosis is frankly bull s**t. Bursitis is a symptom, not a diagnosis. It's just means that something is inflaming one of the shoulder bursae. MOST likely you have pain from subacromial impingement against the rotator cuff. How old are ya? It's uncommon in your 20s, more common in the 30s and 40s. Pain is usually with foward elevation of the arm, worse when manual pressure is applied in this area when the arm is raised. Diagnostic injections of lidocaine should help localize the problem to either the AC joint or subacromial space/bursa. If a properly placed injection relieves tour pain, an arthroscopic subacromial decompression is HIGHLY effective. Recovery is relatively fast (4-6 weeks), and the effect is long-lasting if not permanent.
What city or area do you live in. I can put you in touch with a good shoulder surgeon.
Oh, and what the f**k is a "chiropractic surgeon?" I think you must mean orthopaedic.
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Alright, I've got the same problem and I've been dealing with it since my competitive days. I have not been able to do any over head presses for over five years, and can only use dumbells for chest :'(
Whose a good doc in CA ???
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Californias a big state. What city are you in or near?
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East Bay, NorCal...
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To Mindspin and others with this problem:
Best site for getting set up with an orthopaedic shoulder specialist hands down is:
www.ases-assn.org, or just type in American Shoulder and Elbow Surgeons as your search engine. Go to Membership Directory and type in your City and State.
There are 27 registered members in California alone. The Society is selective and you should be finally able to find someone who knows alot about your problem. If you select a name near you (I was'nt sure how far some of these places were from you--I'm a NewYorker) run it by me and I should be able to verify that they're good.
Hope this site is found to be useful to the members.
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To Mindspin and others with this problem:
Best site for getting set up with an orthopaedic shoulder specialist hands down is:
www.ases-assn.org, or just type in American Shoulder and Elbow Surgeons as your search engine. Go to Membership Directory and type in your City and State.
There are 27 registered members in California alone. The Society is selective and you should be finally able to find someone who knows alot about your problem. If you select a name near you (I was'nt sure how far some of these places were from you--I'm a NewYorker) run it by me and I should be able to verify that they're good.
Hope this site is found to be useful to the members.
Awesome man. Thank you.
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HEY TUBBS:
Sorry to read of your plight. From what you have described, it sounds like you have what is called impingement syndrome. A bursitis diagnosis is frankly bull s**t. Bursitis is a symptom, not a diagnosis. It's just means that something is inflaming one of the shoulder bursae. MOST likely you have pain from subacromial impingement against the rotator cuff. How old are ya? It's uncommon in your 20s, more common in the 30s and 40s. Pain is usually with foward elevation of the arm, worse when manual pressure is applied in this area when the arm is raised. Diagnostic injections of lidocaine should help localize the problem to either the AC joint or subacromial space/bursa. If a properly placed injection relieves tour pain, an arthroscopic subacromial decompression is HIGHLY effective. Recovery is relatively fast (4-6 weeks), and the effect is long-lasting if not permanent.
What city or area do you live in. I can put you in touch with a good shoulder surgeon.
Oh, and what the f**k is a "chiropractic surgeon?" I think you must mean orthopaedic.
Hi Freakfest, first of all, thanks for sharing the info. Yeah, I have what's called a supraspinatus tendinopathy, which is ,like you've said, often linked with the impigement syndrom. I have an appointment with an orthopaedic surgeon in two weeks, we're gonna talk about getting surgery on both my shoulders...What's really scares me is to get the surgery and then realize the problem ain't gone. In your opinion, is a subacromial decompression effective in treating a supraspinatus tendinopathy? Oh, by the way, I live in Switzerland, we have great surgeons down here...at least that's what they say.
Thanks. And Mindspin, get the surgery, everyone has told me wonders about this, you'll have a brand new shoulder.
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Hey guys, the feed back has been great, I'am in the same situation as tubbs, i don't really want to go through with the operation, because i can still train, but not to my max. I have seen the surgen, he told me i can live with it or i can have the operation {6 month waiting list} My question is he told me i would have 100 percent recovery in about 4 months does this seem to long? And also how long would i be off work? I'am a machinist so it is somewhat physical but not really.
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does the surgery require general anesthesia or just local? Also, what kind of scarring should be expected and how long is the hospital stay?
thanks.
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Anesthesia is general. The incisions are tiny unless they find something they dont expect when they get in there. Scarring practically disappeared for me, I have a hard time finding my scars on my left shoulder (a year ago in june) and the right shoulder (december 2004) scars are healing very well.
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thanks. how long were you in the hospital?
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oh yeah i forgot to add that in there...its an outpatient surgery, once you feel ok to leave and once the anethesia has worn off you are good to go.
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Sorry guys, I was away last week at a conference.
The procedure can be done under general or under local with sedation. General is probably best for most, especially if both sides are done. This may be up to the preference of the surgeon. It's a same day surgery with no overnight stay. Recovery is fast. I think the 4 month recovery sounds a little long. Most are back to lifting at 4 to 8 weeks. Maybe 4 months for a workers compensation bulls**t artist, but not an iron maiden ;). Again, like in all circumstances, a subacromial decompression works best in someone who actually has impingement syndrome. Any good shoulder specialist should be able to diagnose this with ease, and to be honest, from a purely "technical" standpoint the procedure is a 1 or 2 out of 10 in terms of technical difficulty (i.e a really easy procedure for someone who does shoulder surgery).
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Hi guys,
I've seen my orthopaedist today; it's ok for him to get the surgery (subacromial decompression)done, but he told me he can't do both shoulders at the same time, unless I want to be unable to eat by myself (he told me I should wait at least one or 2 months before doing the other one). Freakfest, you told if both shoulders were done that it still was a same day surgery, so I really wonder why he told me that. Has anyone here had a subacromial decompresion on both shoulders the same day?
Thanks, hope you are all recovering well!
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dont do both at the same time...i wanted to but my surgeon said the same thing. There really is no way to do both and be comfortable in your own skin, it would be torture. Do what your surgeon suggested, its what i did.
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Tubbs,
Doing one at a time is probably the best way to go. You'll be pretty miserable for the first few days after surgery and if you can't use both arms you cant eat, shit, drive or beat off ;D. As I said, recovery is pretty quick, though, so you should be able to schedule the other side within a reasonable amount of time. Upper body lifting will be out for a while, but you can do legs and abs with no problem.
I recently had multiple surgeries myself (7 sites, including my back, trap, abdomen, both arm pits and both groins and man! all those sites at once was torture. Anyway, good luck to you. I think you'll be very glad you did it.
freak
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Thanks for the info Freak; Sambo and VaTechMuscle were back lifting, light of course, after 4 or 5 weeks; is this the average time between surgery and going back to the gym? Also I guess you did some physio sessions after the surgery, Sambo told me he did one every week, but for how many weeks?
Thanks again.
Sambo and VaTechMuscle and all the others, hope you're enjoying your work outs again. :)
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That recovery sounds about right. In an arthroscopic subacromial decompression, no tissue is "repaired", it's removed. So, postop, there really isn't anything to protect. This would be in sharp contrast to, say, a rotator cuff repair, where you are really at a high risk for disrupting the repair for quite some time.
Post-op physical therapy will definitely speed your recovery. Typical course would be 2-3 times per week for about 4 weeks.
Good luck to you.
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Thanks Freak for taking time to answer.
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Hi everybody,
I'm getting surgery on my left shoulder at the end of this month (29 th); the right one will be done 2 months after (if the left one is fine). Hope it'll be for the better...How are you doing VaTech, Sambo, and all the others?
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still training, it really hurts when i train cheast . I'm going for my operation DEC 16. I could have had it sooner, like in October, but i did not want to miss a lot of time off work, so i took two weeks off at Christmas time.I'm trying to come up with a good supplement stack, to speed up recovery. Like l-glutimine, dhea, glucosamine and a few others. Does anyone have any advice or thoughts on this?
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Hey guys,
My recovery after my clavicle excision/subacromial decrompression is still going well. Its a long slow process, but with each week that passes I always see a marked improvement.
I can now train Chest and shoulders without pain which is great. Its still very light at the moment, and Im using 15kg dumbbells for my chest pressing and doing steep incline. low incline, and flat presses. I have stopped bench press altogether now as I have read many an article about the damage it can cause your shoulder joints due to the forced/rigid movement. Same thing with flies, again because of the damage they can cause, especially when the ROM is extended too far.
Other modifcations to my training in order to maintain the health of my shoulders are as follows:
*No BN pressing or BN pulldowns. For some people (obviously me and most others on this thread) these movements can be absolute killers as they force the rotator cuff out of position and give the shoulder incorrect tracking in the glenhumeral joint, causing impingment. The BN pulldown and press are especially bad for the AC joint and cause the AC ligamants to become stretched and therefore give you a greater chance of AC joint erosion (distal clavicle osteolysis).
*No Upright rows. This is a dangerous movment for the shoulder joint and shoulder be excluded my nearly all trainers. Again, it can cause impingment and tendonitis in the joint.
*Any extremes of ROM should be avoided. Stretching the shoulder joint too far can make the ligaments and tendons loose and cause problems.
*For me personally dips are off the menu, as they cause pain at my AC joint, and I mainly attribute doing lots of dips with heavy weights attached as the root of my problems. It shoulder be noted however that most trainers can do them with no problems, it all depends on your physiology and structure. If it hurts or clicks stop.
*I regularly train my rotator cuff muscles with internal and external rotations with rubber tubing and light dumbbells. I also perform lateral raises whilst lying in my side on a bench, this exercise engages the rotator cuff muscles to a high degree (mainly the supraspinatus) and aids in strengthening and supporting the shoulder joint.
*Stretching is done after the workout and pre-WO I always make sure I warm up with light cardio and light weights before progressing to the main sets.
*humility and focus are my main tools at this time. Immaculate form with easy weights.
I can now train back, triceps, bicpes, forearms at pretty much 90%, coming short of failure and taking no risks, but any pain with these movements are gone. Just a general weakness from months of non training. My muscle is returning very quickly even though my weights being used are REALLY light. Muscle memory is a wonderful thing. Your body wants to get back to where it was, so keep faith and keep driving on carefully and you will all get back to your best. Its just now we must train twice as smart.
BigJay.. With regards to supplements my main tools for joints are a Glucosamine MSM, Condroitin stack for connective tissure regeneration. Couple this with EFA's in the form of Linseed oil for me. Before my surgery I also took a couple of Anit-inflam tablets after a workout to stop any pain and swelling. I also iced my shoulder regularly.... I still do this now and often alternate it with a heat pack. It helps increase healing blood flow to the area. IMO ice ice ice baby... Its been great for me.
Hope this helps you guys. Any questions you have I am more than happy to help.
Good luck fellas
Sam
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Good to hear from you Sam!
I see you recovery is going well, you are almost training at 100% (minus the pecs and delts which is normal at this stage), that's great, wow I can only imagine how you're feeling right now :D
Yeah, all the exercices you've listed are really dangerous and that's why I've never done them, except for the flies (if your elbows don't go behind the horizontal line of your upper pecs I think that's ok to do them).
Do you still do physio right now or is it just the first 4 or 5 weeks after the surgery? Thanks, wish you all the best.
Oh, and bigjay, Sam is right about those supplements; a friend of mine told me wonders about Celadrin (www.celadrin.com) (http://www.celadrin.com));before I get the surgery I'm gonna try it, just to see if it's really that good. You can find it at VitaminShoppe if you don't want to order it on the site. Hope to hear good news from all of ya all soon!
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Hey Tubbs,
Yeah it feels good, but 100% will not be for a good while, im going to be ultra careful...
i was checkin out that Celadrin, yeah man it looks good... I was laughing to myslef with all those pictures of old people in the pages... haha guys, what is wrong with us, we are like 60 year olds.. haha
later bro's
Sam
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Testing, testing :o)
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Thanks for the link to celedrin i bought a bottle 90 tablets, 25 dollars canadian, i found this a little pricey so i'am going to shop around. i'll post back in a few weeks, or when the bottle runs out and let you guys know if it worked for me. They say that it works better when taken with glucosamine.
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Yeah BigJay, let us know how it works. Good luck.
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Just a little note in relation to the supplement/ joint healing question....
Well last time I listed my joint care stack, this time I would also like to point out that it is not only foods that you can take to help problems, but also foods that you can eat which can exacerbate problems. In my own personal experience I have found out that certain foods can trigger off joint aggravation, and many trainers I have talked to (especially old guys) have told me of foods which can really trigger off their joint pain. For me citrus fruits and coffee seem to not agree with me and since elliminating them from my diet i feel much better.
another one which seems to crop up over and again is tuna..... probably the mercury content. But I know a guy that even if he has so much as a spoonful of the stuff, it can cause him extreme joint pain.
Obviously everyone is different and their digestive systems deals with foods in different ways. A great way to find out what foods can cause you problems with health (not just joint) is to get a hair analysis test. they take a strand of hair and analyse what foods agree with you, what foods you need to take more of if you are deficient etc. Its very detailed and could really help in injury recovery and re-hab. A friend of mine has had it done and says he feels like a new person since dialing in his diet to his test results. I am going to get mine done soon, and will let you know how it goes.
Well good luck guys and take care
Sam.
p.s. my recovery still going well. Slow but surely I am getting there. Now inclince dumbbell pressing with 20kg bells.... Its light but its getting better each week.
On every exercise I continue to add a little more every session. Making sure that if I even get a twinge of pain, I back off and rest up till there is no pain at all. Caution and humility are hard virtues for a weight lifter/trainer to practice but essential in making a full recovery.
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Hi Sambo, recovery seems to go pretty well for you. Thanks to point out the food topic; I eat two cans of tuna a day, sometimes four! Maybe I should slow down with it :-\
Now I have a question for you; next week I'm getting my left should done, the right one will be done early september (I hope); I know the rehab is gonna take some time, but I should be able to train light before I get the right one done, so what should I do in your opinion? Resume my training as soon as the first one is ok or wait till the second one is healed?
Thanks, see all of you soon!
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The answer to that question is pretty simple. Anything that hurts your shoulder, just plain and simple dont do it!! You have got to be patient with your recovery. I know that I can lift more than I am doing right now but the risks of doing this are simply not worth it. I have had a year of hell with my shoulder problems and as tempting as it is to jump in again and push myself I know how important it is to properly recover. I first partially tore my AC ligament and was told it was only sprained, so I pushed on, drove throught the pain and ended up giving myself severe arthtitis in my AC joint which had to be surgically reconstucted to be cured. Now I realise just how important it is not to rush back from injury.
I am slightly confused about your question however. Are you talking about training when your first shoulder op is healed up and before you other shoulder is healed. If so this is a bad idea. Only train again when both your shoulders are healed. Carry on with your rehab on the first shoulder and keep hitting your legs and midsection to keep mass and keep you sane. If u start to train while still carrying injury then your body will eventually pay the price. For example I was still training after my initial injury to my ligament, and not only did this cause the DCO but also in my MRI scans there was some mild wear on the biceps tendon. My point is that if you try training while your shoulder is not working properly u can never know what damage you're doing to it in other places.
Like I said before, only do what does not hurt. Keep increasing what you do sensibly and slowly. If pain comes knocking, sit back and let it heal before trying again.you will have all of July and August to re-hab your left shoulder, this should be just right.... then after your second surgery, do the same with your right while maintaining the re=hab on your left. Its prob not best to do too much one sided training on your left if it has healed up and your right is still lagging behind. Just keep pressing on with your physio and try to come back so you can train both sided equally. This will ensure you dont pick up any muscular imbalances and that when u do try training both sides at once the forces of the weight are not unevenly distributed. As this can cause more problems as one shoulder is forced to do an excessive amount of work to compensate for the others weakness.
I hope that is clear, if not just ask. I'm glad you're getting the op done soon bro. That has come around pretty quick. Im sure not quick enough though. I wish you the best of luck for the operation. speak soon.
Sam
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Thanks Sambo, yeah that's what I was talking about; well, so I guess training the upper body is out of the question for at least the next three months :'( I can only hope that one year from now I will be back at the top of my game, that's my only wish :-\
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Well guys, I'm back home :) It's all good this far, beginning rehab tomorrow; don't worry BigJay, it's not that painful; of course, rehab ain't gonna be fun the first couple of days, but I guess you gotta do what you gotta do to be back in the gym; the only bad thing is I did have an hypoglycemia crisis yesterday, but that's normal, 18 hours without eating is something I had never experienced; like most of you here I eat every 2.5-3 hours; luckily I had taken 3 Nitro-Tech bars with me ;D
A big hello to all of you.
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I'am glad things went well for you tubbs, can you move your arm or shoulder at all? Also how is sleeping, does it hurt to sleep? I have not found any noticable affect with the celedrin, but it can't hurt to keep taking it.
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Hi bro, I don't have a great range of motion right now, but that's normal, I begin rehab this afternoon. No, it doesn't hurt when sleeping, you just have to sleep on your back. I will tell you more later, have to go now.
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Hi again, have done my first physio session, I'm feeling ok right now. BigJay, just ask if you want further details or advices on the surgery.
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Hello mate,
Glad to hear that your operation went well and your starting on your road to recovery. Brilliant news bro, you must be relieved its finally happening now.
Good luck with your rehab and for the bitch of a time you have ahead waiting for the surgery on your other side. Im sure your tough enough to take it tho. Hang i there and keep focussed on the end goal.
Take care.
Sam
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Hello mate,
Glad to hear that your operation went well and your starting on your road to recovery. Brilliant news bro, you must be relieved its finally happening now.
Good luck with your rehab and for the bitch of a time you have ahead waiting for the surgery on your other side. Im sure your tough enough to take it tho. Hang i there and keep focussed on the end goal.
Take care.
Sam
Thanks bro, it all went well, now it's rehab time. My goal is to be back in the gym early November. And you, still going stronger as the days go by?
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Hi guys, how are you all doing? I've got a question for Sambo, VaTech and the other ones who got the surgery: how many weeks after the surgery did you begin to recover all your flexibility? This way I'll know if I am on the right track, thanks :)
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Hey man,
After surgery I began with simple pendulum swings with my arm. This continues for about 1-2 weeks, then some wall climbing with my hand crawling like a spider up and down it to get the movement back. This went on for another weeks I guess. Then came the internal/ external rotations. For me it actually took a good 6-8 weeks before i could even think about doing a cross body or behind back stretch for my shoulder. But this is because my surgery was pretty more severe as I had a resection of the AC joint done too. So you may be quicker up tp speed than me on this.
Right now progress is still steady and progressive. Im getting there bro, its just taking time. But its safe to say that the progress since before having the surgery is amazing and I feel absolutley great. I do have some bad days if I have pushed myself and it gets a little sore. But I just back off and wait for the all clear of no pain. At present Im now back to some dumbbell pressing for my shoulders with some ok'ish weight.... about 20kb dumbbells, and this does feel fine. I mean I know I could do more, but am now super cautious and take everything in slow steps. I reckon in another 4-5 months I could be back to some serious training once more...... ;D
Take it east bro, my thoughts are with you.
Sam
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Hey man,
After surgery I began with simple pendulum swings with my arm. This continues for about 1-2 weeks, then some wall climbing with my hand crawling like a spider up and down it to get the movement back. This went on for another weeks I guess. Then came the internal/ external rotations. For me it actually took a good 6-8 weeks before i could even think about doing a cross body or behind back stretch for my shoulder. But this is because my surgery was pretty more severe as I had a resection of the AC joint done too. So you may be quicker up tp speed than me on this.
Right now progress is still steady and progressive. Im getting there bro, its just taking time. But its safe to say that the progress since before having the surgery is amazing and I feel absolutley great. I do have some bad days if I have pushed myself and it gets a little sore. But I just back off and wait for the all clear of no pain. At present Im now back to some dumbbell pressing for my shoulders with some ok'ish weight.... about 20kb dumbbells, and this does feel fine. I mean I know I could do more, but am now super cautious and take everything in slow steps. I reckon in another 4-5 months I could be back to some serious training once more...... ;D
Take it east bro, my thoughts are with you.
Sam
Thanks Sam, hope I'll be as smart as you in my rehab process; be warned, I'm gonna ask you for your "back in the gym" routine as soon as I'll be able to lift a weight ;D It's working so well for you, I HAVE TO USE IT TOO 8)
Thanks again, speak to you soon.
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Do any of you guys know what grade of separation you had? I injury'd my
shoulder about two months ago and the orthopedic told me its a grade II
separation.
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Hey guys, how are you doing? Surgery on my right shoulder mid-october. Hope to hear from you soon.
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Hey Tubbs!
Let me us know how the surgery goes and what was actually done. I'd be happy to help you with any questions in the postop period, including phasing in exercises, etc.
Good luck!
freak
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Thanks "Doc"! Well, my physio went very well and now my shoulder is completely healed, my range of motion is total. I will have surgery on the right one the 19th of october. Like you know I've had a subacromial decompression, they've "only" shaved part of my acromium and removed part of my subacromial bursae in order to do so. I've a question about the later: my surgeon told me that the bursae was very inflamed when he removed part of it and I've to admit that sometimes, when I do some rehab moves, I feel like a weakness, the same kind of feeling I had before the surgery but way way weaker, as if the bursae was still a bit inflamed. So here are my questions about that: is this normal, at least the first few months after the surgery? Will my bursae get healthy now that the tendons have a total range of motion? Is there a way to speed the healing of the bursae?
Thanks again for taking time to answer our questions, it's really appreciated.
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A bursa is a normal structure that interposes between bony prominences and soft tissue. In the case of the subacromial bursa, it helps protect the underlying rotator cuff muscles from friction associated with rubbing against the acromion. The bursa is always inflamed with subacromial impingement syndrome, and must be removed to do the decompression.
You ask a good question here--does the bursa itself reform? I must say I am not exactly sure whether it does, or if, more likely, fibrous scar tissue interposes into the spot. In the cases I have done where the patient has had a previous decompression (hopefully done by someone else ;D) the area does tend to be filled with scar tissue.
I think the best way for this area to recover is to keep the joint moving. Don't worry about the strength as that will come with time. Also, work specifically on rotator cuff strengthening. Best exercise here:
Lay on your left side on a flat bench. Hold a LIGHT dumbell in your right hand with your upper arm and elbow pressed up right against your side. Rotate the arm as if your elbow is glued to your side but free to rotate. Should chose a weight that allows about 15 reps. Repeat on other side. This is a very different motion than a lateral raise. This will specifically work the rotator cuff.
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Thanks Freak, I'm doing rehab exercises whenever I have a minute, and I have to say that I'm really happy of the range of motion I have right now, mostly because it's pain free. Could you give us a list of exercises to avoid at all costs when you hit back the gym, at least the first few months. Dips, pull ups, flyes?
Thanks again freak, you're a blessing for this board :)
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Thanks Tubbs.
Obviously any exercise that causes discomfort should be avoided. However, many exercises can be modified slightly and still be of benefit. Here is where dumbell work can be particularly beneficial over machines that have a "preset" direction of motion.
For example, if lateral raises cause you discomfort, simply changing the arc (direction) of motion or even the position of your hands may still allow them to be done. For example, when my own subacromial joint acts up, lateral raises are a killer. I modify it to lower weights, and then hold the dumbell differently. In this case, I satrt with my hands facing backwards (palm back, with forearm pronated) and arc straight out to the side. The dumbell stays perfectly parallel to the plane of my body. Range of motion is less, but it torches the delt and causes no impingement pain.
For barbell work, varying grip width may be of benefit also. I'll usually drop out incline benching and do more declines, which place much less stress on the subacromial space. I'll also drop out front squats (the ultimate subacromial crusher!).
Just play around with it, but start out light and give yourself LOTS of time to recover. You WILL get there again, I promise. As Randy (Macho MAN) Savage once told me during a squat session at Mid-City Gym in NYC: "Know your body and survive."
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Thanks bro; I just hope to be able to enjoy my work-outs again, that's truly the most important thing here. I'm sure I'll have more questions to ask you down the road!!
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Hey fellas, I separated my shoulder about 4months ago and Im have a lot of pain still when doing any pressing movement (doing chest is the worst). I am contemplating surgery, and was wandering how the guys that had the surgery are feeling and/or the guys who just waited it out how are you feeling?
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Hey johnnyx, If i were you i would go for the surgery, I should have not waited for mine, I'am going under the knife dec 16, and i can't wait, to be pain free. Just look at it this way a little break from training will be good for your body. But go to a good doctor that does only shoulders, and have him check you over, and make sure that its your joint that is the problem. They have many ways of checking, I found a cortisone shot in the joint helped make up my mind really fast, when you go in to the doc's office with the pain in your shoulder, then the next day the pain is gone,from the cortisone it really helps you decide what to do. Tubbs i'am glad to here things are going well with you. How is it a few days after does it hurt, and if so what is the pain like? Can you sleep ok, or does it keep you up?
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Hi BigJay! Well, I'm doing the right one today. Don't be afraid, the first day I felt kind of miserable, mostly because I realized I had no range of motion at all and that the physio would be a pain in the ass, but the next day it was already way better. I had no problem to sleep or whatsoever. The first week, taking a shower, putting your clothes on, etc. will be kind of difficult, but things will be better sooner than you think. Johnnyx, go for the surgery, it won't get any better without it.
I'll tell you more soon. Take care guys.
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johnnyX: Don't confuse your condition with theirs. A "separated shoulder", i.e. an acromioclavicular joint disruption, is a VERY diffierent condition than the subacromial impingement syndrome that has been the topic of this thread. The procedures for AC separation are VERY different, with a MUCH longer recovery.
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Hey johnnyx, If i were you i would go for the surgery, I should have not waited for mine, I'am going under the knife dec 16, and i can't wait, to be pain free......
Good luck!! keep us posted on the outcome .... how long had it been until you decided to get the surgery?
johnnyX: Don't confuse your condition with theirs. A "separated shoulder", i.e. an acromioclavicular joint disruption, is a VERY diffierent condition than the subacromial impingement syndrome that has been the topic of this thread. The procedures for AC separation are VERY different, with a MUCH longer recovery.
I have tried to inform myself with as much on what to do about separated shoulders and Im still in limbo. All of the information I have come across on the net usually are mountain bikers who have crashed and careless about lifting weights or just basic info on what a separation is on orthro sites. Im having a hard time finding what weight lifters who have separated there AC joint do, and how they approach the surgery/ to non surgery? Thanks for any reponses...
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Johnnyx, freakfestmd is right i've heard of your injury, if i'am corect they go into your shoulder and permanently attach things back together, you could try this site, www.shouder1.com its pretty good source of info. Good luck with the surgery Tubbs, keep in touch, and thanks for the info.
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Johnnyx, freakfestmd is right i've heard of your injury, if i'am corect they go into your shoulder and permanently attach things back together, you could try this site, www.shouder1.com its pretty good source of info. Good luck with the surgery Tubbs, keep in touch, and thanks for the info.
I'm back home...beginning physio on monday. This one was even less painful than the first one bro. Don't worry, yours is gonna be fine too!
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<bump>
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So, Big Jay, how are you? Hope everything went just fine :)
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Hey, Tubbs good to hear back from you i had it done last Friday, it went well. It hurt like hell about 10 hours later, after the shoulder block was gone. {they put me under and froze my shoulder and arm} it still hurts now and i have to take pain killers, my range of motion is almost nill. And wouldn't you know it we had a huge snow storm that day 41cm fell i was 3 hours late getting to the hospital, due to traffic. Luckily the surgeon took the guy that was after me first. And how about yourself are you recovering well, i have a feeling its going to take awhile before i'am 100%, talk to you later, jason.
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Some background on this topic...
As mentioned, AC joint pain is very common in weightlifters. Usually it can be related to bench pressing, which maximizes load across the joint. This little joint with a 1cm2 area is the only osseous connection from the arm to the torso. A large load across it therefore creates massive force/area. Imagine a 160lb guy stepping on your hand.. unpleasant. Now imagine a 160lb FBB in 4" heels stepping on your hand. Same principle of force / area.
This causes a condition called clavicular osteolysis (can also be caused by AC separation). At this point the joint is very tender and it hurts to bench press, do push-ups, etc. Incline bench unloads the joint somewhat and can be used while healing. Resting will result in a cure. If the injury continues, osteoarthritis ensues and pain becomes chronic. At this point a Mumford procedure is performed (resection of the distal clavicle), which can relieve pain (no joint, no pain). This is well tolerated, as you all have documented. However, shoulder pain can be from other conditions such as a labral tear, and such treatment can make the shoulder more unstable. AC separation usually heals by itself but needs rest from training.
So.. I urge caution before jumping into this. I've seen weightlifters ruined by the wrong surgery as well. See an orthopedic shoulder surgeon. Get your MRI and have it read by a musculoskeletal radiologist.
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Hey, Tubbs good to hear back from you i had it done last Friday, it went well. It hurt like hell about 10 hours later, after the shoulder block was gone. {they put me under and froze my shoulder and arm} it still hurts now and i have to take pain killers, my range of motion is almost nill. And wouldn't you know it we had a huge snow storm that day 41cm fell i was 3 hours late getting to the hospital, due to traffic. Luckily the surgeon took the guy that was after me first. And how about yourself are you recovering well, i have a feeling its going to take awhile before i'am 100%, talk to you later, jason.
Resumed my work-outs two weeks ago, no more pain, but still using light weights of course...but it feels great, because for the first time in more than 2 years I enjoy my work-outs. I could use more weight than I do but I want to do it the right way. Don't worry bro, the first ten days you're like "it's gonna take months", but after 10 physio sessions you'll already see a big difference :). Keep in touch.
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hey guys!!
awesome thread
I'm having the same problem with my right shoulder :'(
Haven't been able to lift since thanksgiving..
I been doing cardio to stay in shape 5-6 times a week.
Its getting alittle better :-\
but still not good enough..
something that has been helping is alot of stretching
my pain is in the lower part of the shoulder/bicep :-[
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Hey guys, My doctor just told me my shoulder pain is because of my AC joint. I just wanted to see how recovery has been for those that have had it. Any info would be appreciated.
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Hey guys, My doctor just told me my shoulder pain is because of my AC joint. I just wanted to see how recovery has been for those that have had it. Any info would be appreciated.
Hey wannabebig, I separated my shoulder (2nd or 3rd degree sep.) in June'05, I have been trying to rehab since, just doing rotator cuff exercises with bands 2-3 times everyday....stopped working chest for about six months and started back up in January slowly, started with a smith machine just for reps (strict movement on the smith) to allow me to see how bad it hurt or not, then moved on to dumbbells light weights for reps and movement....definitely is better then the last time I have posted on here, but no where near 100%....hope that keeps you motivated :)
Hows the rest of you guys doing with the shoulder pain ??? any new progress???
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Hey guys sorry i have not updated my progress. Well i had my surgery Dec. 16, The first night was pretty painfull, after the shoulder block wore off {they will freeze your shoulder, well more like the whole side of your body } its your choice or they can give you pain killers for when you wake up. So around 3 am the bloke had worn off and i looked at the bottle of pain killers and thought to myself thats not going to be enough pills. But the pain does not really last all that long, i think i took them for about 10 days, and then i was fine. As for weights well, i took about 5 weeks off, did a little cardio just to get in the gym. I did about 7 or 8 sessions of phisio, and started back on the lifting. Real light lots of reps, i did mostly like arms, legs, and basically stuff that did not involve my shoulder. I think its been around 4 weeks now i have been doing my full workout. And everything is coming back fast, real fast, just an example 4 weeks ago i would have done 35 pound flat bench dumbell press for about 10 reps, yesterday i did 90 for 10 reps, and I'm holding back. I don't want to risk injury. Alot more people have this condition and they don't realize it, some worse than others. But I'm really happy with the results so far.
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Bigjay,
That's great news to hear that things are coming back so well!! I am Scheduled to have the surgery on my AC joint Mar. 29th. I'm pretty nervous about it, but hearing the results from you guys is great! Does your job require alot of physical activity? mine does, So it worries me a little.
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I took 2 weeks off from work, but i could have used 3 weeks. My job is also physical, I work in a sheet metal shop, i do set-up's on amada punch press machines. But i still managed, to work around things, used my left hand alot. Did your doctor give you a heal time? My surgeon told me it would take a full year before it's 100 percent, at first i did not believe but i think he is right.
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I'm Getting my shoulder done on wed. Mar 29th. My doctor said I'd probably be back to work in about 6 weeks or so. He said it's just gonna take time to be back 100%. I just hate that I won't be able to lift for a while.All the gains go so quickly. What did you have to do for rehab?
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BigJay, good to hear you're fine. Wannabebig, I had to do 3 physio sessions per week for about 2 months. The first days are a pain in the ass, but after one week or so, things gonna get easier. Good luck for your surgery :)
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I had the same exact problem. I babied it for months before I finally went to the doc.First it was vioxx that he gave me,then after about three months I still had severe pain I went back and he sent me to a joint surgeon.They told me it was the ac joint.I elected to not have the surgery,and actually quit doing any pressing movements at all for a very long time.It eventually stopped hurting,but man it took forever.Now I am left with a very unsightly knot on the top of my shoulder.I was told it was part calcium buildup,and part collar bone sticking up.I really wish now I would have just had it taken care of.
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Tubbs, how are your shoulders are you 100 percent yet. I trained chest today, i did 105 d.b on flat bench for about 8 reps. But incline i find hurts a little more i can get to 85 for 10 reps, i don't push too hard I'm still cautious. gtbro1 its still not too late to fix your shoulder you'll be happy you did. I was really hesitant to have my surgury, but there was 1 guy in our gym who competes in bodybuilding and he told me to go for it, the 2 or 3 months off from training would be good, for my muscles, you know a good rest for them.
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I'm going in tomorrow morning for the surgery.wish me luck! I'll let you know how progress goes.
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Had my surgery on wed. My shoulder is pretty sore and range of motion sucks right now, but I feel a little better every day so far.
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Tubbs, how are your shoulders are you 100 percent yet. I trained chest today, i did 105 d.b on flat bench for about 8 reps. But incline i find hurts a little more i can get to 85 for 10 reps, i don't push too hard I'm still cautious. gtbro1 its still not too late to fix your shoulder you'll be happy you did. I was really hesitant to have my surgury, but there was 1 guy in our gym who competes in bodybuilding and he told me to go for it, the 2 or 3 months off from training would be good, for my muscles, you know a good rest for them.
Bigjay, glad to hear you're back in the gym! :) Same thing for me, I'm very cautious...we have to! I decided to learn from my mistakes: I train my rotator cuffs twice a week, and basically I train 2 weeks heavy (6-12 reps) and one week light (never less than 12 reps) and then I repeat the cycle. Every 2 months I rest one week and I also have deep massage tissue every two weeks.
Wannabebig, your r.o.m. will be back to almost 100% in less than 4 weeks, count on that. Good luck and ask us questions if needed.
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Hi everyone, I am new to this site so be gentle :D
Just thought I would share my pain with you. I am 29 and have been doing martial arts since I was 6, and weights since I was 14, over the last 2 - 3 years I have experienced several (undiagnosed and untreated) shoulder injuries (I think I separated my shoulder at least twice but did not get any medical assistance !!). From October 2006 I had pain in my right shoulder meaning I could not even lift a weight in a shoulder press or bench press motion.
I had a subacromial AC joint decompression and excision on 27th June 2006. Straight after the Operation I could only move my right arm about 3 inches up from my hip. 2 days later I had full range of motion with only slight pain. The most uncomfortable thing are the stitches in my shoulder. I went to see my physiotherapist today and he gave me a resistance band and said I could do whatever strengthening exercises I see fit. I carried out a few things when I got home and the only real pain I seem to have is when making a motion similar to rear lateral raises. I am astounded by the effectiveness of this operation! I think I have been quite lucky with my rehabilitation being so quick.
I am a Police Officer so I will be on restricted duties for about 3 months, I am not so upset about that, the worst thing is being out of 100% training for so long.
I am a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and Mixed Martial Arts instructor so I do a lot of grappling, Punch bag training and Yoga, all of which I will not be able to do with 100% resistance/full power for at least the prescribed 3 months. I appreciate most of you guys are bodybuilders/weight trainers, the movements which we carry out during our workouts are thus very controlled. With Mixed Martial Arts, against a non compliant partner I can not control the movements my arm will be subject to. therefore can anyone give any advice on my safest route back into my sport.
Also I have been using a supplement alongside the usual Glucosamine, Chondroitin, MSM stack called Biocalth, its active ingredient being Calcium L-threonate. (www.biocalth.co.uk) I think its available in the US ? Does anyone have any experience of using this product, the sales buff seems quite hopeful.
All the best,
Dean 'The Englishman'
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This site has been a life saver for me, I have beeen dealing with ac joint discomfort since Jan. 06,and have had all the same tests and run around I can deal with. I have been bodybuilding seriously for about 9 years and have been lucky enough to avoid any serious shoulder injuries up to this point. This whole year has been very stressful for me and i feel the stress and heavy training have finally caught up with me. I have finally decided to go for the dcr surgery, I am scheduled for this Friday July 7th. My doc told me he is going to do a mini open procedure, this is a small incision (about .5 to 1 inch long) and in the same direction as the crease in your shoulder, Directely over the joint itself. I have read all the posts to date and have finally found some comfort from all you who have gone through this nightmare. I am a little nervous, but am ready to get it over with, I am down in weight from 285 to 255 and cannot deal with the modification of no upper body exercises any longer. I have been riding the bike and killing legs for the past 6 months, but as we all know that just will not cut it for all of us that are serious about our sport.
I will tell everyone this, bb bench press is the # one ac joint and rotaor cuff destroyer there is, so beware of this exercise and switch to db's for all chest pressing movements. Another killer is the upright row, totally a joint killer and should be avoided if you plan to have healthy shoulders for any amount of time. For 9 years I have been bench pressing 300, 400,450, pounds and now I know that this weight is not meant for the body to handle, work with your body not against it. I hope to be back 100% after my surgery and look forward to posting my recovery on the forum for others to review and hopefully find comfort in. Thanks for everyone who has posted on the site it has been a big comfort to me and I will post again after my surgery on Friday the 7th.
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Well, It's been 4 months since my surgery and I can say that my shoulder is feeling awesome!! It's like having a new shoulder! I've been back to work now for about a month and recovery wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. At first the bruising scared the hell out of me, but that went away pretty soon. Within the first month, I had my full range of motion back. I would definitely recommend this surgery for those of you that have not made up your minds yet.
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I also had this surgery, twice on the same shoulder, first time didn't do the trick. It actually was feeling really good for a while there. In fact it felt perfect and i was thinking that i should have my other shoulder done. However lately( last couple of weeks) the shoulder i had the surgery on is bothering me again.
Not sure if i should stop excercising completely for a couple weeks or what i should do. I made an appointment with a physical therapist though to hopefully strengthen the joint and figure out a way to manage my workouts without putting too much strain.
Any tips?
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well nobody replied but i will provide an update. i took a full week off from training and pain has subsided. physical therapist says i need to work more on stretching, and pulling my shoulders back more. which involves training my back muscles more and focusing on posture.
i sit at a desk 8 hours a day which i am sure doesn't help with that. she also reccomended laying off overhead presses and even incline.
next week i will resume training and let you know how things progress.
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ive got a consultation with orthapeadic surgeon on the 27th of this month, been struggling with mine for over 2 yr now,, i could cry at how may chest has went to mush.. ive went the nhs route as im not made of money, couldnt realy afford to go private, altho i wish i had of done and got the fucker fixed soon as i hurt it...
thing that realy wound me up, had an ultra sound scan on it a few month back, and he tried to tell me it was repetitive strain injury, but i felt a sharp pain out of no where in the middle of a set of flat db presses, was only usung 90's during a warm up, a very managable weight for me... i accept that i may well have repetitve strain injury as well, but theres much more to it than that..
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mine is still bothering me, was starting to feel better and then yesterday i was doing some close grip bench for triceps and i think that didn't go over too well.
i am going to see my surgeon again and see what he thinks is going on. maybe get a shot of cortisone.
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mine is still bothering me, was starting to feel better and then yesterday i was doing some close grip bench for triceps and i think that didn't go over too well.
i am going to see my surgeon again and see what he thinks is going on. maybe get a shot of cortisone.
sorry to hear that, hope it sorts its self out,,, ive had 2 shots of cortisone already, its not a solution..
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yeah unfortunately for me i think i need to accept the fact that i can't do things that put too much stress on the joint without it flaring up. for me this means, sticking with machines for chest exercises and going light. also i am going to make sure to do rotator cuff exercises regularly.
sounds like others who have had this surgery were more fortunate and able to go back to doing chest with pretty heavy dumbells. maybe at some point i will be able to work dumbells back into the equation. for now i am just going to focus on finding a weekly program that doesn't cause me to have to start popping advils daily.