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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Wrestling Board => Topic started by: mass 04 on March 01, 2012, 10:50:24 AM
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Incredible promo skills, amazing psychology, in-ring powerhouse, and looks like be can kick your ass.
(http://backyardsportsblog.typepad.com/.a/6a014e88d37c32970d0162ff7483da970d-800wi)
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This guy got fucked with a shit gimmick.
(http://www.accelerator3359.com/Wrestling/pictures/ttaylor.jpg)
This guy just never got the push he deserved.
(http://www.obsessedwithwrestling.com/pictures/l/lancestorm/15.jpg)
And this guy got hurt in a car crash before he could get to where he would eventually be. At the top.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-hWSl4oSzrkk/TrcEvGYlEnI/AAAAAAAAAIE/fmzsFsqAlwc/s1600/magnum%2Bta.jpg)
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Totally agree with Storm and Arn. I think Storm got screwed becuase he was a smaller wrestler and spent too much time in ECW. The highlight was when he hit WCW and held 3 belts at once. Cant think of too many bad matches with Lance.
Arn is another one, total respect.
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I was a huge Tully Blanchard mark back in the day... That slingshot suplex was awesome.
Plus that match with Dusty with Babydoll hanging over the ring was awesome.
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i think owen hart was one of the most underrated always in his bros. shadow,bret said he was most gifted.
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I would put Arn at the top of the list of should-have-been world champion, with a good title run.
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This guy got fucked with a shit gimmick.
(http://www.accelerator3359.com/Wrestling/pictures/ttaylor.jpg)
This guy just never got the push he deserved.
(http://www.obsessedwithwrestling.com/pictures/l/lancestorm/15.jpg)
And this guy got hurt in a car crash before he could get to where he would eventually be. At the top.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-hWSl4oSzrkk/TrcEvGYlEnI/AAAAAAAAAIE/fmzsFsqAlwc/s1600/magnum%2Bta.jpg)
WOW, EXCELLENT POST!!!
It’s a matter of opinion, but those are all guys I would have listed myself.
Taylor got screwed. Nobody could have done anything worthwhile with the rooster gimmick.
Storm is one of the few talents that WCW actually did a better job of utilizing than the Fed. Lance did get a strong push in Turner’s company, and that was one of the only downfalls of WCW folding.
Magnum TA: purely a victim of circumstance beyond his control AND outside of wrestling. Truly a damn shame. Strangely enough, he doesn’t sound the least bit bitter over what happened. In fact, he has a better outlook about his time in the business than many guys who made more and went a lot farther.
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Shelton Benjamin was one hell of a performer, but was found lacking personality and good promo technique. Matt Bourne was one hell of a performer which ever way you look at him. Overall im thinking........
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_2b4ejYCe5mE/TUOvJkMVZxI/AAAAAAAANpc/NTxPkkFtHCY/s400/Scott%2BHall.jpg)
Excellent on the mic, could bury you in 20 seconds. In ring performances, at his best, were out of this world but his personal demons kept him back and left most people forgetting how good he was and recalling his drunken antics.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Fl-8YK-bJ-4/TVa9SfKy-FI/AAAAAAAAApc/SpCGj685fYU/s1600/jakeroberts.jpg)
He proved you didnt need to have muscles popping out everywhere and 1 in a million athleticism. The man had absolutely every ingredient needed to get over, his in ring repertoire was predominantly basic but executed in a vicious manner that had you feeling for the poor sod he just hit. The image, the mic skills, the attitude, i dont think we'll ever see another Jake Roberts.
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I always saw multiple character similarities between Jake & Bill Eadie (Demolition Ax). That's a very good thing.
As for Hall - and, I think this may kind of be your point, too - it maybe wasn't so much that he was underrated, but rather his skills were simply overshadowed by his personal problems.
Finally, I think Matt Bourne may have given the Doink character something not too many guys could have. He was a very good hand in the ring on multiple levels, and I think that was what kept the clown gimmick from burying him, as it may have originally been meant to do. You know Vince!
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The difference in everyone listed here and AA is length of career. AA was over from day one and stayed that way.
Terry Taylor was great and could have been a world champion. I always wanted him to have a run with the Horsemen.
But if the thread is about should have been, AA is the clear leader.
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I put Jake and Roddy Piper in the same category, didnt need belts to get them over. I think Jake was one of the best "psychologists" in the business.
I don't know if Arn would be considered World Title material, great wrestler but not sure if he the 100% it factor. I think he was suited with US Titles, TV titles etc.
I think if Owen were still alive, he would have least held a championship belt at least 2x.
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The difference in everyone listed here and AA is length of career. AA was over from day one and stayed that way.
Terry Taylor was great and could have been a world champion. I always wanted him to have a run with the Horsemen.
But if the thread is about should have been, AA is the clear leader.
When would you have put the big belt on Arn?
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When would you have put the big belt on Arn?
Sometime during the peak Horsemen years.
Flair would lose it, AA would win it a short time later, thus creating tension in the pecking order.
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I aways thought Haku (aka meng) should have been given more pushes/titles.
yes, he had a good King run in the WWF and held the tag title with Andre, but he should have had at least an intercontinental run.
amazing in ring talent, granted, couldn't cut a promo to save his life, but thats why he had Bobby the Brain around.
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I aways thought Haku (aka meng) should have been given more pushes/titles.
yes, he had a good King run in the WWF and held the tag title with Andre, but he should have had at least an intercontinental run.
amazing in ring talent, granted, couldn't cut a promo to save his life, but thats why he had Bobby the Brain around.
Excellent pick. It would have been nice had they incorporated Meng's real-life toughness into his wrestling character - similar to how they did with Ken Patera around the same time.
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I aways thought Haku (aka meng) should have been given more pushes/titles.
yes, he had a good King run in the WWF and held the tag title with Andre, but he should have had at least an intercontinental run.
amazing in ring talent, granted, couldn't cut a promo to save his life, but thats why he had Bobby the Brain around.
Good talent but not sure he melded with the fans....
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Sometime during the peak Horsemen years.
Flair would lose it, AA would win it a short time later, thus creating tension in the pecking order.
Exactly. Or even at the PPV where they wrestled. Or before that, and had Flair beat him at the PPV.
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BIG, Toddy would be happy to read this thread. ;D
I can't argue with putting AA at the top of the list. He had the whole package and didn't self-destruct outside the ring either like many on this list. His mic work is some of the best and most under-rated ever.
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Incredible promo skills, amazing psychology, in-ring powerhouse, and looks like be can kick your ass.
(http://backyardsportsblog.typepad.com/.a/6a014e88d37c32970d0162ff7483da970d-800wi)
when judging a wrestler i think you have to rate them in 3 categories, mike skills, in ring ability and look. arn anderson look 2, mic skills 6, in ring ability 5 =13 out of 30. feel free to rank him.magnum ta look 8 mic skills 7 in ring ab 8=23.
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when judging a wrestler i think you have to rate them in 3 categories, mike skills, in ring ability and look.
I like that scale and have used it in discussions here. Bret uses the same criteria when grading wrestlers in his book.
The best workers rate somewhere in the mid-upper 20's.
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(http://www.onlineworldofwrestling.com/pictures/c/charliefulton/01.jpg)
Charlie Fulton, bitches
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when judging a wrestler i think you have to rate them in 3 categories, mike skills, in ring ability and look. arn anderson look 2, mic skills 6, in ring ability 5 =13 out of 30. feel free to rank him.magnum ta look 8 mic skills 7 in ring ab 8=23.
Arn had a great look, especially for that time period and promotion. Guys actually looked like fighters, not just a bunch of Mens health cover models. He was great on the mic, a great intense presence..a great contrast to Flair. He's the one who came up with the 4 Horsemen name for the group.
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when judging a wrestler i think you have to rate them in 3 categories, mike skills, in ring ability and look. arn anderson look 2, mic skills 6, in ring ability 5 =13 out of 30. feel free to rank him.magnum ta look 8 mic skills 7 in ring ab 8=23.
You rate TA above Arn on the mic? No way on earth. I watched virtually every promo they cut during the mid-atlantic years and Arn was worlds beyond TA.
My ratings would be (based on the time period)
Arn: mic 8, in-ring 8 and look 8. Virtually no weaknesses.
TA: mic 6, in-ring 7 and look 9. TA could have improved on the mic and just needed a little more polish in-ring. He was destined for greatness. Such a shame.
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Not many are AA's equal on the mic, and TA certainly isn't on that short list.
TA got a lot of mileage from his look and early push. Could he have sustained it? We will never know.
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Not many are AA's equal on the mic, and TA certainly isn't on that short list.
TA got a lot of mileage from his look and early push. Could he have sustained it? We will never know.
It was those "Born to be wild" promos that got ya, eh?
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Arn had a great look, especially for that time period and promotion. Guys actually looked like fighters, not just a bunch of Mens health cover models. He was great on the mic, a great intense presence..a great contrast to Flair. He's the one who came up with the 4 Horsemen name for the group.
i always thought of arn as ole's lackey that's where i get my poor rating i guess. when i watched it seemed he was in ole's shadow. and later flair's.
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i always thought of arn as ole's lackey that's where i get my poor rating i guess. when i watched it seemed he was in ole's shadow. and later flair's.
I think that was a pretty widespread view. Probably what held him back.
Kind of like those songs that got into the top 5 at the same time some song was breaking the record for most weeks at #1.
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Ted Dibiase............
Money Inc go down as top 10 all time for me but as a singles wrestler far far underused, he jobbed to give people pushes because beating him made you legit.
(http://www.obsessedwithwrestling.com/pictures/t/teddibiase/11.jpg)
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It was those "Born to be wild" promos that got ya, eh?
Ah, the good old days. I will always remember those. I also miss the days when real music was used.
I don't mean to sound negative about TA. I think he had a bright future as well. But as I said, he had a promising future, AA fulfilled his.
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i always thought of arn as ole's lackey that's where i get my poor rating i guess. when i watched it seemed he was in ole's shadow. and later flair's.
I think the fact that he was able to stay relevant in Flair's shadow for so many years says something positive instead of negative. He could have been replaced. I don't think JJ would have had any problem finding another enforcer for the greatest stable of all time. ;D ;D ;D
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Ted Dibiase............
Money Inc go down as top 10 all time for me but as a singles wrestler far far underused, he jobbed to give people pushes because beating him made you legit.
(http://www.obsessedwithwrestling.com/pictures/t/teddibiase/11.jpg)
good choice.
he was great.
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DiBiase was far, far better in mid-south than in the WWF.
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mike awesome was vastly overlooked when he moved to the wcw he was that70's guy and completely overlooked in the wwe where he was mostly a backstage guy. in ecw he and masato tanaka had some of the greatest matches ever esp considering the risks involved.
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mike awesome was vastly overlooked when he moved to the wcw he was that70's guy and completely overlooked in the wwe where he was mostly a backstage guy. in ecw he and masato tanaka had some of the greatest matches ever esp considering the risks involved.
Typical WCW move.
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;D pic
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Damn, I sometimes forget how huge he was.
I never met or even saw him live; just on TV, which never does justice.
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When I got to see him in ECW, he was a real beast.
He got so fucked when he went to WCW it's not funny.
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When I got to see him in ECW, he was a real beast.
He got so fucked when he went to WCW it's not funny.
Was WCW genetically programmed to screw up the ECW talent they acquired?
Sandman..."Hardcore Hack"
Mike Awesome..."That 70's Guy"
How did they come up with that shit? Did they want to intentionally kill off these industry stars who they no doubt paid good money to sign? Seriously, who thought that these were good ideas?
Raven was about the only one they got right.
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Was WCW genetically programmed to screw up the ECW talent they acquired?
Sandman..."Hardcore Hack"
Mike Awesome..."That 70's Guy"
How did they come up with that shit? Did they want to intentionally kill off these industry stars who they no doubt paid good money to sign? Seriously, who thought that these were good ideas?
Raven was about the only one they got right.
They did Raven well and they did "OK" with Chris Jericho... Buy they fucked up pretty much everyone else.
Malenko, Eddie Guerrero, and Shane Douglas were all completely fucked over by WCW.
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They did Raven well and they did "OK" with Chris Jericho... Buy they fucked up pretty much everyone else.
Malenko, Eddie Guerrero, and Shane Douglas were all completely fucked over by WCW.
Oh, good call on Jericho. We should add his "Thrillseeker" tag partner Lance Storm to the list of ones they got right, too.
Storm actually got a decent push. It's a shame that the company folded during it.
I was more disappointed with how the Fed used Lance after the WCW acquisition.
QED: What does it say about a wrestling company that leaves Curt Hennig & Lance Storm off of their biggest PPV of the year?
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He was a mid card PPV guy before they put him to tag team glory. He was worth the strap for 1 run so i stand by what i say.
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I see we're all using "underused" and "underrated" interchangeably. No biggie; it's all opinion-based anyway.
IMO, DiBiase was both underrated AND underutilized.
He was trained by the Funks down Texas and was being groomed to become the next NWA world champion. That fate changed when the old man lured him to the Fed.
Ted was given the gimmick Vince had dreamt up for himself when he was a kid: a cocky millionaire who bought his way out of everything. The character was a perfect heel, and Ted portrayed it excellently.
The biggest criticism of Ted seems to be his ring style. While his mic work and vignettes perfectly suited the gimmick, Ted's ring work was often not "dirty" enough. He kept everything tight and it looked very good and technically sound, but he maybe should have adopted more sleazy tactics. He used some in his matches, but many folks feel he relied too heavily on his mic work and Virgil to get over as a heel.
That said, he got a decent push, but I always felt they should have put the big belt on him at some point. According to some sources, DiBiase was originally in line to win the strap in the tournament at WM IV. He had tremendous heat and good momentum going at this time, and it was a shame to see him almost relegated to mid-card status following WM V, after which time he would engage in mundane feuds with his manservant Virgil (who is very much a prick in real life) and a morbidly obesce albino hermaphrodite with a peroxided perm and raccoon eyes named Dusty Rhodes.
Ted would again gain steam teaming with Mike Rotundo to form Money Inc. They would become the WWF tag champions, which would be Ted's only "legitimate" title reign in the Fed. They worked a memorable program with Hogan and his manservant, Brutus Beefcake. Ted sort of faded into the background once again following the Money Inc. run, eventually ending up in WCW, where he wound up managing the Steiners before becoming one of 83 members in the nWo.
Considering some of the guys they did push, I always thought it a shame they didn't do more with Ted.
In my book, he was underrated and underused by management. At least the fans know better.
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this is exactly why you are viewed as our leader :D
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Was WCW genetically programmed to screw up the ECW talent they acquired?
How did they come up with that shit? Did they want to intentionally kill off these industry stars who they no doubt paid good money to sign? Seriously, who thought that these were good ideas?
Raven was about the only one they got right.
I think they did this so Vince would not scoop them up and make them stars thus adding more firepower to the Monday night wars...ahh the death of WCW..I just love how Jericho said..."If I knew they sold for $5Mil, I (Jericho) would have bought the company".....
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this is exactly why you are viewed as our leader :D
LOL...Thanks!!
Fortunately, for the few times that I'm wrong, there is a member "watchdog" here who helpfully points out my inaccuracies with innumerable references and citations; almost as if he takes pleasure in correcting people. He often comes across quite matter-of-factly, bordering on confrontational - enough that several members have sporadically PM'ed me complaints about him over the last 18 months.
But, I'm always quick to point out that I've known this member for years on here and he is a good guy. Some people just come across a certain way. Also, the print medium omits "delivery," which is a critical component in determining the context of a message.
As I've said many times on here: it's just guys in spandex pretending to fight.
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DiBiase "brat pack" days in the old mid-south were excellent.
Monty, he was basically the character you mentioned as being more sleazy in the ring, but with a cocky attitude. Not the lame belt and money talk nonsense, but a very over heel that was well on his way to NWA glory. His time in GCW was also very good.
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DiBiase "brat pack" days in the old mid-south were excellent.
Monty, he was basically the character you mentioned as being more sleazy in the ring, but with a cocky attitude. Not the lame belt and money talk nonsense, but a very over heel that was well on his way to NWA glory. His time in GCW was also very good.
Do you think he made more money with Vince than he would have staying in the Alliance?
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Do you think he made more money with Vince than he would have staying in the Alliance?
Good question, during that time period I'm not sure Vince was shelling out like he did later on. But DiBiase was/is a smart guy, so I'm sure he had his reasons. He would have made an excellent NWA champ to travel around as he could generate heat so easily.
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Good question, during that time period I'm not sure Vince was shelling out like he did later on. But DiBiase was/is a smart guy, so I'm sure he had his reasons. He would have made an excellent NWA champ to travel around as he could generate heat so easily.
One thing about his run in the Fed, is that he was lucky enough to catch the tail-end of the kayfabe days. Vince still bought into it enough that he provided Ted with limos, jets, and spending money to project the gimmick.
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he was even on lifestyles of the rich and famous with robin leach.
I really thought he was that rich just because of that show LOL
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he was even on lifestyles of the rich and famous with robin leach.
I really thought he was that rich just because of that show LOL
Vince must have had some kind of arrangement/deal with ...Rich & Famous and/or Robin Leach. I seem to remember at least one other wrestler being featured on the show during its run, although I can't remember if it was kayfabe or not. Leach also appeared at WM IV and again in WWF magazine with Savage & Sherri.
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Monty...do you thin Dibiasi was missing something that kept him from winning the WWF Title or was he soo over like Piper that he didn't need it?
( I am not directly comparing Piper to Dibiasi)
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Monty...do you thin Dibiasi was missing something that kept him from winning the WWF Title or was he soo over like Piper that he didn't need it?
( I am not directly comparing Piper to Dibiasi)
I think it's hard to draw many comparisons between performers in any industry. As such, it's equally hard to attribute certain shared outcomes amongst performers to the same reasons. My point is, while Pipes and Ted never held the big belt in the Fed, I honestly can't say if it was for the same reasons.
Piper will claim that he "didn't need" the belt. I think the old man was reluctant to put it on him due to Piper's known tendency to fly off the handle back then (he's done his share of drugs). Also, Hot Rod has missed a lot of action over the years due to injuries, filming movies, and vacations. He didn't wrestle full-time after 1987. Granted, he came back to work programs that lasted >12 months, but it's hard to build a champion who is absent so much of the time. It did keep his face fresh, however, and he still gets a pop from even today's crowd.
As for DiBiase, I don't know if he was lacking anything, or if he just didn't fit in with the direction they were planning to go. He could definitely deliver, though. Surely, somebody within the Federation must have known and recognized what Ted could do because they signed him and put him in some major programs. I don't remember hearing that he was ever a "troublemaker." It may simply be a case of bad timing rather than him being undeserving. I don't think they could have asked any more of him, and I doubt he could have given much more than he did.
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I think it's hard to draw many comparisons between performers in any industry. As such, it's equally hard to attribute certain shared outcomes amongst performers to the same reasons. My point is, while Pipes and Ted never held the big belt in the Fed, I honestly can't say if it was for the same reasons.
Piper will claim that he "didn't need" the belt. I think the old man was reluctant to put it on him due to Piper's known tendency to fly off the handle back then (he's done his share of drugs). Also, Hot Rod has missed a lot of action over the years due to injuries, filming movies, and vacations. He didn't wrestle full-time after 1987. Granted, he came back to work programs that lasted >12 months, but it's hard to build a champion who is absent so much of the time. It did keep his face fresh, however, and he still gets a pop from even today's crowd.
As for DiBiase, I don't know if he was lacking anything, or if he just didn't fit in with the direction they were planning to go. He could definitely deliver, though. Surely, somebody within the Federation must have known and recognized what Ted could do because they signed him and put him in some major programs. I don't remember hearing that he was ever a "troublemaker." It may simply be a case of bad timing rather than him being undeserving. I don't think they could have asked any more of him, and I doubt he could have given much more than he did.
Part of it may have been that he peaked during one of the "muscle" periods
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Part of it may have been that he peaked during one of the "muscle" periods
That's an excellent point that I didn't consider. It certainly seems to be possible and very good explanation during the late-80's portion of his run. And, in a way, it makes sense. By the time he formed Money Inc. and had a brief push with the tag belts, the muscle-era was over following the Zahorian debacle that began in 1991. Perhaps if Ted had stuck around long enough after that, they'd have done something more with him in singles.
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one interesting thing is that the WWF basically treated the Million Dollar Belt as a title in its own right.
he was always having matches "for it" and 'won' it back from the jake at WM6 where we did the Wave in Toronto 8)
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one interesting thing is that the WWF basically treated the Million Dollar Belt as a title in its own right.
he was always having matches "for it" and 'won' it back from the jake at WM6 where we did the Wave in Toronto 8)
Another good point!
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Vince must have had some kind of arrangement/deal with ...Rich & Famous and/or Robin Leach. I seem to remember at least one other wrestler being featured on the show during its run, although I can't remember if it was kayfabe or not. Leach also appeared at WM IV and again in WWF magazine with Savage & Sherri.
That would also be Savage. He and Queen Sherri made the TV show, probably kayfabe. I think he did an actual one with Savage and Elizabeth, too.