Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: The Squadfather on September 25, 2007, 01:44:46 PM
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a lot of controversy about this lately, so what do you think, BCAA's, maltodextrin, whey protein, etc. or good old solid food like Ronnie does like chicken, rice, cornbread, etc?
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u cant go wrong with a good quality solid food ,
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probably good solid food...Sometimes I think protein drinks just pass through you.
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u cant go wrong with a good quality solid food ,
i agree but i like both approaches honestly, if it's been a long workout and it's been too long since i ate last i'll eat my solid food meal.
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asshole that just made my mouth water like nothing, still got 2.5 hrs before i can break the fast >:(
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both!
heres my opinion=
amino acids 15 minutes prior to training...to send these straight into the muscle while you are working out. this goes along with milos idea of being able to be "hyperanabolic". there is some truth in that, i believe.
at the end of the workout 20-60 grams of a carb like dextrose or vitargo. amount depends on your metabolism. this replenishes muscle glycogen, preps body for uptake of what comes next.
immedietly after last set take in between 20-40 grams protein, between 5 to 10 grams creatine monohydrate, and between 5-10 grams of l-glutamine. all dosages are dependant on your metabolism, the size of the muscle group you just trained (for example...legs would require a larger dose than say biceps), and how intense of a workout you just completed.
45 mins to an hour later...take some fish oils, eat a large portion of protein, if you have a quick metabolism eat moderate amount of carbs, have soem veggies, and drink alot of water.
this is my opinion.
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I think waxy maze starch like vitargo is ok but its way too expensive.
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a lot of controversy about this lately, so what do you think, BCAA's, maltodextrin, whey protein, etc. or good old solid food like Ronnie does like chicken, rice, cornbread, etc?
Lets just say, you going to McDonalds then Taco Bell as a post workout activity is working great for you ::)
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is there something keith?
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haha candidate should work for a supplement company with all the tales he tells
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is there something keith?
onlyme is just angry because yet another bed broke under his ponderous fat and he's sleeping on the floor again. :D
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onlyme is just angry because yet another bed broke under his ponderous fat and he's sleeping on the floor again. :D
lol
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jaejonna. you dont think that getting nutrients into the blood stream while a huge portion of blood is still rushing into the recently damaged muscle is a good idea? if you wait to have solid food, and then have to wait for that solid food to digest...your looking at two, maybe three hours before the nutrients hit the blood stream. and even then its a slow and steady stream. by that time blood circulation is back to normal. you have an equal amount of nutrients flowing to all parts of the body.
wouldnt it be better for a quick recovery to send a bigstream of muscle repairing nutrients into the blood stream when a disproportionatley large amount of blood is heading into the part of your body where you need it most.
dont you think?
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jaejonna. you dont think that getting nutrients into the blood stream while a huge portion of blood is still rushing into the recently damaged muscle is a good idea? if you wait to have solid food, and then have to wait for that solid food to digest...your looking at two, maybe three hours before the nutrients hit the blood stream. and even then its a slow and steady stream. by that time blood circulation is back to normal. you have an equal amount of nutrients flowing to all parts of the body.
wouldnt it be better for a quick recovery to send a bigstream of muscle repairing nutrients into the blood stream when a disproportionatley large amount of blood is heading into the part of your body where you need it most.
dont you think?
what makes you think that all the meals that you've eaten prior to your workout's amino's and protein aren't circulating in your body?
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what makes you think that all the meals that you've eaten prior to your workout's amino's and protein aren't circulating in your body?
exactly
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I like the shake right after my workout as it seems to have a higher absorbtion rate, then when I get home, shower and dick around for a bit. I eat solid food for long lasting calories, then a shake again before bed.
Sometimes it's hard to choke down food after a hard squat of Deadlift workout.
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exactly
hahahahhaa these guys make it sound as if every morsel of the meal that you eat gets directly used by the muscle you just trained and nothing is left, hahahaha, if that's the way it worked you'd die after not eating for 6-7 hours. ::)
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Sometimes it's hard to choke down food after a hard squat of Deadlift workout.
That's a legitimate reason. I do shakes too when I can't eat.
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a lot of controversy about this lately, so what do you think, BCAA's, maltodextrin, whey protein, etc. or good old solid food like Ronnie does like chicken, rice, cornbread, etc?
Solid food would be my vote.
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a lot of controversy about this lately, so what do you think, BCAA's, maltodextrin, whey protein, etc. or good old solid food like Ronnie does like chicken, rice, cornbread, etc?
Offseason: Steak, rice, apple pie
Precontest: Steak, rice, T3, Clen
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I have a scoop of protein shake in the gym straight after my last set, then i shower, drive home (20mins) cook a meal and then eat.
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what makes you think that all the meals that you've eaten prior to your workout's amino's and protein aren't circulating in your body?
That's what these queefs don't understand. Frickin "Epic Window of Opportunity aka bracketing post workout hype"
Some real ways to grow:
1. Eat more
2. UP the dosage!
3. Combine 1 and 2
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both!
heres my opinion=
amino acids 15 minutes prior to training...to send these straight into the muscle while you are working out. this goes along with milos idea of being able to be "hyperanabolic". there is some truth in that, i believe.
at the end of the workout 20-60 grams of a carb like dextrose or vitargo. amount depends on your metabolism. this replenishes muscle glycogen, preps body for uptake of what comes next.
immedietly after last set take in between 20-40 grams protein, between 5 to 10 grams creatine monohydrate, and between 5-10 grams of l-glutamine. all dosages are dependant on your metabolism, the size of the muscle group you just trained (for example...legs would require a larger dose than say biceps), and how intense of a workout you just completed.
45 mins to an hour later...take some fish oils, eat a large portion of protein, if you have a quick metabolism eat moderate amount of carbs, have soem veggies, and drink alot of water.
this is my opinion.
Judging by your physique alone, I'd never take your advice.
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i agree but i like both approaches honestly, if it's been a long workout and it's been too long since i ate last i'll eat my solid food meal.
i like both. ill drink a med range protein shake...25mgs of prot, bcaas, etc on the way home. then ill cook dinner and eat it....usually within an hour to an hour and a half after the workout....
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People still drink PWO shakes?
Epic Gullibilty
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People still drink PWO shakes?
Epic Gullibilty
The supplement industry has them trained like Pavlovs dogs. Everytime they hit the gym they've got to reach into their wallet first to see if they've bought the right "supplements".
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Well hours before my workout i always have a solid meal, then during my workout i have wazymaize starch,
glutamine, eaa's and creatine.
Now, IMIDIATELY after my workout i have the same shake above along with vit C, after 25 of that i have whey isolate with oats....
And lastly after 45-1hr a solid meal.
Thats it...... ;)
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I think if possible maybe have a protein drink that you drink from between sets while doing your workout.After the workout is finished, depending on time constraints, a solid food meal would be better.If time is a factor then a PWO shake until you can get the solid food meal.
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I do a combination of both post work out.
I have 1 scoop of Whey Protein, 5 g creatine monohydrate, and about 90-100 g of Bran Flakes (with no milk).
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i drink a Myoplex RTD only because it's a 45 minute drive home. Then i eat 2 chicken breasts, brown rice and something green as soon as i get home.
8)
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I like the shake right after my workout as it seems to have a higher absorbtion rate, then when I get home, shower and dick around for a bit. I eat solid food for long lasting calories, then a shake again before bed.
Sometimes it's hard to choke down food after a hard squat of Deadlift workout.
Same here. I always have 25g whey/ 25g casein shake right before I go to sleep, works for me at least.
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Considering the cost of animal protein, powdered protein shakes are not that expensive. Believe it or not, science actually has a way of measuring absorption rates of different food sources. Guess which one is absorbed faster? :D
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a lot of controversy about this lately, so what do you think, BCAA's, maltodextrin, whey protein, etc. or good old solid food like Ronnie does like chicken, rice, cornbread, etc?
IMO suppliments are just that....suppliments. Basically suppliments are to replace meals you cannot get in throughout the day or to suppliment what you cannot recieve through solid food. In the offseason, if you can't get your daily pre or post workout needs through solid food, then you are not eating enough...period. But if you're getting ready for a show and the diet is calorie defecient and you can't get those daily needs, then you MUST suppliment. If you use a suppliment while in the offseason, then it should be counted as a meal, for example, pre-workout MEAL, post-workout MEAL and the post w/o meal should be at least 50-75 gr carbs and 25-30gr protein and I usually use the post-workout drink during the workout and finished after the workout.
I personally don't believe that a post workout meal is necessary during a HIT type of workout, but is completely necessary during a high volume workout like Milos prescribes, but then again I've always been a fairly high volume type of protocol person anyway.
Also, don't forget, I'm pretty sure (and Milos will deny this) is that his drinks are geared toward insulin users who require those types of drinks before, during and after training. He said he guaranteed 20 lbs of muscle in one month...I say BS without insulin and even with the insulin thats a push!!
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People still drink PWO shakes?
Epic Gullibilty
I do
50gr Malto or Vitargo
30gr whey
10gr creatine
10gr EAA
I use to add glutamine, but I have not seen any study to indicate that it works so I dropped it
but if I feel like I half assed it in the gym then I skip the PWO shake and wait for my next meal
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I do
50gr Malto or Vitargo
30gr whey
10gr creatine
10gr EAA
I use to add glutamine, but I have not seen any study to indicate that it works so I dropped it
but if I feel like I half assed it in the gym then I skip the PWO shake and wait for my next meal
They all laughed at Copernicus when he claimed the earth was round. Post workout supplementation has been studied extensively in sports medicine, but the closest people on here have come to a peer reviewed study is flashing their nut sack to their schmo sugar daddies. :D
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PWO Shake
80g carbs dextrose (40g on diet)
40g whey protein
Meal 1h later
brown rice and chiken/cod/tuna/steak/beef
I noticed a BIG difference when i didn't take any carbs pwo.
I think a pwo shake is very important because you need to refill quickly and eating a meal ain't fast enough. Takes too long before you eat it and takes to long before it's digested and the nutrients are availible.
A PWO shake is also very important because of the insulin spike and the overcompensation that occurs.
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i drink a Myoplex RTD only because it's a 45 minute drive home. Then i eat 2 chicken breasts, brown rice and something green as soon as i get home.
8)
so your polluting the environment, driving 45 mintutes to the gym just to work out every day back an do forth..how much gas do you use?...you suburbanites are going to kill us.
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i agree but i like both approaches honestly, if it's been a long workout and it's been too long since i ate last i'll eat my solid food meal.
i usually have a whey shake and then food about an hour later
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slin...monitor.... mild glucose crash....SLAM carbs....protein.... ;D
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IMO suppliments are just that....suppliments. Basically suppliments are to replace meals you cannot get in throughout the day or to suppliment what you cannot recieve through solid food. In the offseason, if you can't get your daily pre or post workout needs through solid food, then you are not eating enough...period. But if you're getting ready for a show and the diet is calorie defecient and you can't get those daily needs, then you MUST suppliment. If you use a suppliment while in the offseason, then it should be counted as a meal, for example, pre-workout MEAL, post-workout MEAL and the post w/o meal should be at least 50-75 gr carbs and 25-30gr protein and I usually use the post-workout drink during the workout and finished after the workout.
I personally don't believe that a post workout meal is necessary during a HIT type of workout, but is completely necessary during a high volume workout like Milos prescribes, but then again I've always been a fairly high volume type of protocol person anyway.
Also, don't forget, I'm pretty sure (and Milos will deny this) is that his drinks are geared toward insulin users who require those types of drinks before, during and after training. He said he guaranteed 20 lbs of muscle in one month...I say BS without insulin and even with the insulin thats a push!!
brutal essay no one will ever read
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a lot of controversy about this lately, so what do you think, BCAA's, maltodextrin, whey protein, etc. or good old solid food like Ronnie does like chicken, rice, cornbread, etc?
well Milos has said whey can be digested in 20 minutes. real food eg - chicken 6 hours, fish 5 hours, red meat 24 hours.
by this alone, i would say whey wins hands down.
However, lets be honest, is it really that important? i say no. look at ronnie and others, they would be great regardless of whether whey post-workout or real food.
Dave Palumbo has said it is over-rated. the key is getting 6 meals of protein per day, if u are doing that, it is more important than the so-called 'window of opportunity'.
other issue is those on ketogenic diet, this window of opportunity is gone, because the body isnt using carbs for fuel.
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BCAA's hands down! ;)
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BCAA's hands down! ;)
it has been said, that the use of a high quality of whey isolate makes bcaa's a sort of 'extinct product'.
Because most whey's have high amino profile. plus we are eating 6 meals per day with protein.
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Maybe i'm just an idiot with good placebo effects however, working with supplements from 14-23 (worked for maxmuscle, GNC, and local shops) I think supplements work well when used right. I can only speak from personal experience though. I only real take my sups around my workout. I get my stuff discounted so ya- maybe its a lot of shit ;D
I train around 9-9:30pm
Preworkout 2-3 scoop MRM Driven (okay stuff) + 2-3 scoops MRM BCAA+G (gotta get rid of it)
During- 4 scoops Scivation Xtend (luv this shit)
PWO- 1 serving cellmass when i leave the gym, IDS waxie maize and 40g whey when i get home
Eat a full meal an hour later
One serv ON 100% whey, 1 serv 100% Casein before bed (i have done thiseverynight for 6 years+)
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it has been said, that the use of a high quality of whey isolate makes bcaa's a sort of 'extinct product'.
Because most whey's have high amino profile. plus we are eating 6 meals per day with protein.
"DL5" fair enough...
but I'll leave it up to you to find out why BCAA's will never be "extinct".
I'll give you a hint....go to the local library, and look up how amino acids are digested and absorbed...AND why BCAA's are unique in their absorption from ALL other amino acids ;)
And when you figure it out...think of me :-*
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Resistance trainees don't need quite so many carbs as most of the PWO shakes I have seen mentioned here. You guys have to understand that the studies referenced in the articles you read that stated you need that high of a carb dose were done with endurance related training.
A "meal" is best PWO. A liquid meal is optimal for the simple fact it will be more quickly absorbed.
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Offseason: Steak, rice, apple pie
Precontest: Steak, rice, T3, Clen
This looks about right to me.
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both!
heres my opinion=
amino acids 15 minutes prior to training...to send these straight into the muscle while you are working out. this goes along with milos idea of being able to be "hyperanabolic". there is some truth in that, i believe.
at the end of the workout 20-60 grams of a carb like dextrose or vitargo. amount depends on your metabolism. this replenishes muscle glycogen, preps body for uptake of what comes next.
immedietly after last set take in between 20-40 grams protein, between 5 to 10 grams creatine monohydrate, and between 5-10 grams of l-glutamine. all dosages are dependant on your metabolism, the size of the muscle group you just trained (for example...legs would require a larger dose than say biceps), and how intense of a workout you just completed.
45 mins to an hour later...take some fish oils, eat a large portion of protein, if you have a quick metabolism eat moderate amount of carbs, have soem veggies, and drink alot of water.
this is my opinion.
avoid fish oil post workout, even a couple hours later. If its a large dose it can actually negate some of the damage you did during your workout that would lead to new muscle growth. The inflammation response from training is a big signal for your body to start repair the muscle (and make it bigger). You don't want to blunt that response with anything anti-inflammatory related.
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Post workout supplementation has been studied extensively in sports medicine, but the closest people on here have come to a peer reviewed study is flashing their nut sack to their schmo sugar daddies. :D
I wouldn't say post workout supplementation has been studied extensively. There are a few studies looking at pretty ACUTE effects, and a lot of times the studies are done on empty stomach (a confounder and doesn't apply to most who have eaten a few meals by workout time). What we would need is long term studies... you know, showing the supplements to actually cause more muscle growth compared to solid food over the long term -- and, this is important, showing that the supplements cause more growth than solid food eaten at the same calorie/macronutrient ratio. My guess is that the difference would be statistically insignificant in a long term study.
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solid food. dont fuck around, eat something real, with fiber and protein and minimal starches. Your body will thank you and you will recover faster than mixing some mexican powder with water and blueberries in the fuckin blender.
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avoid fish oil post workout, even a couple hours later. If its a large dose it can actually negate some of the damage you did during your workout that would lead to new muscle growth. The inflammation response from training is a big signal for your body to start repair the muscle (and make it bigger). You don't want to blunt that response with anything anti-inflammatory related.
i did not know that! awesome info.
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I like the shake right after my workout as it seems to have a higher absorbtion rate, then when I get home, shower and dick around for a bit. I eat solid food for long lasting calories, then a shake again before bed.
Sometimes it's hard to choke down food after a hard squat of Deadlift workout.
I know what you mean. Hell, sometimes I can't even drink my shake, with my stomach being so fucked up from the leg w/o.
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hahahahhaa these guys make it sound as if every morsel of the meal that you eat gets directly used by the muscle you just trained and nothing is left, hahahaha, if that's the way it worked you'd die after not eating for 6-7 hours. ::)
ahahaha more advice from the guy who thinks if he hangs around the internet enough and reads he will know everything and he will grow strong. dude give it up already, you don't know anything you talk about. You just flap your lips and shit comes out.
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"DL5" fair enough...
but I'll leave it up to you to find out why BCAA's will never be "extinct".
I'll give you a hint....go to the local library, and look up how amino acids are digested and absorbed...AND why BCAA's are unique in their absorption from ALL other amino acids ;)
And when you figure it out...think of me :-*
how many grams per day? in how many servings?
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Pre/during workout mix = 5g BCAA, 30g maltodextrin, 10g protein.
Post workout mix = 5g Creatine, 30g maltodextrin, 40g protein.
Meal a few hours later.
Though, if I had the time, I would have 20g whey protein and a meal post workout. I just dont though.
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Pre/during workout mix = 5g BCAA, 30g maltodextrin, 10g protein.
Post workout mix = 5g Creatine, 30g maltodextrin, 40g protein.
Meal a few hours later.
Though, if I had the time, I would have 20g whey protein and a meal post workout. I just dont though.
interesting, isn't it more important to focus on the carbs pwo and not the protein. In your case the protein is more than the carbs.
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For hot women: Protein straight from the tap.
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a lot of controversy about this lately, so what do you think, BCAA's, maltodextrin, whey protein, etc. or good old solid food like Ronnie does like chicken, rice, cornbread, etc?
Food and gear works best. The rest of that crap is pure snake oil. ;)
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For hot women: Protein straight from the tap.
Maybe Derek Anthony forgot the part about being a hot woman? Big ups for making it clear cut for the rest of us hedge 8)
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For hot women: Protein straight from the tap.
I love you hedge.
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Well hours before my workout i always have a solid meal, then during my workout i have wazymaize starch,
glutamine, eaa's and creatine.
Now, IMIDIATELY after my workout i have the same shake above along with vit C, after 25 of that i have whey isolate with oats....
And lastly after 45-1hr a solid meal.
Thats it...... ;)
this is exactly what i do
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All I can say is that since I stopped taking protein shakes and only eat regular food(with the exception of bcaa's pre workout) I have gotten stronger and put on more muscle. My post workout meal is usually white rice with 4 or 5 whole organic eggs.
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I've been in the iron game a while, relatively speaking, and I have to admit I still do drink post workout shakes. The Mass Gainer stuff from GNC (oh brother ::) ). Not so much for the reasons the supplement industry suggests, but because I don't have much of an appetite for at least three or four hours after a hard workout, and I want to get some nutrients into my body in the meantime. I'm not a big breakfast guy, so I'll usually have a 700 cal. shake first thing in the morning to tide me over until lunchtime.
I still stand by the "get big" diet of the old time strongmen: milk, milk, and more milk. Pre-processed whey protein is junk IMO. If you want to put on a shitload of muscle over the long haul, stick with good food--and lots of it--and drink at least one gallon of milk per day. 8)
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I've been in the iron game a while, relatively speaking, and I have to admit I still do drink post workout shakes. The Mass Gainer stuff from GNC (oh brother ::) ). Not so much for the reasons the supplement industry suggests, but because I don't have much of an appetite for at least three or four hours after a hard workout, and I want to get some nutrients into my body in the meantime. I'm not a big breakfast guy, so I'll usually have a 700 cal. shake first thing in the morning to tide me over until lunchtime.
I still stand by the "get big" diet of the old time strongmen: milk, milk, and more milk. Pre-processed whey protein is junk IMO. If you want to put on a shitload of muscle over the long haul, stick with good food--and lots of it--and drink at least one gallon of milk per day. 8)
I can only drink straight milk if I am eating peanut butter. I eat a ton of full fat yogurt though. I think it is one of the best foods for strength.
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interesting, isn't it more important to focus on the carbs pwo and not the protein. In your case the protein is more than the carbs.
Typically I dont get enough protein throughout the day so I kinda make up for it there. I know it doesnt work this way but whatever. I usually get 20g malto before and 30g after. The protein is a casein, soy, whey blend.
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Well hours before my workout i always have a solid meal, then during my workout i have wazymaize starch,
glutamine, eaa's and creatine.
Now, IMIDIATELY after my workout i have the same shake above along with vit C, after 25 of that i have whey isolate with oats....
And lastly after 45-1hr a solid meal.
Thats it...... ;)
hahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :o
WTF!
Did i really do those things? hahahaha, nowadays i just eat normal food use hormonas and stand bigger, leaner and stronger. :D
Its amazing what gems you can find from your old self "back then". ;D
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hahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :o
WTF!
Did i really do those things? hahahaha, nowadays i just eat normal food use hormonas and stand bigger, leaner and stronger. :D
Its amazing what gems you can find from your old self "back then". ;D
Hhaha we all did some stupid things when were naive. For me the worst was when I started to eat A LOT (and natural) because you "need a lot of calories to grow" ::), I just became fatter, haha lol :-\
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RIP Squadfather
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Hhaha we all did some stupid things when were naive. For me the worst was when I started to eat A LOT (and natural) because you "need a lot of calories to grow" ::), I just became fatter, haha lol :-\
;D oh good old days.. i miss them to be honest.. :'(
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welcome back Dave, i missed you very much
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;D oh good old days.. i miss them to be honest.. :'(
Why would you miss those days?
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Why would you miss those days?
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