U.S. Army General Says Flight 77 Did Not Hit Pentagon

[Straw Man]

&NR

What's this got to do with anything

We started out talking about a highly trained  person in the US military

This guy's opinion should be considered relevent (i.e worth listening to) until proven otherwise

[kh300]

What's this got to do with anything

We started out talking about a highly trained  person in the US military

This guy's opinion should be considered relevent (i.e worth listening to) until proven otherwise

there was a witness that saw the plane hit. did you miis that?

[kh300]

there was a whole list of people that saw it. traffic was at a stand still,and everyone on the highway saw it... opps your right. the traffic jam and all the witnesses were set up there.. ya your right

[kh300]

Do you know anything about what you're dissing right now?  And you're using the wrong term there.

what?

[Straw Man]

there was a whole list of people that saw it. traffic was at a stand still,and everyone on the highway saw it... opps your right. the traffic jam and all the witnesses were set up there.. ya your right

please post some link to "everyone on the highway saw it" or traffic jams

[kh300]

There are many people who also saw a very small plane.  Hell, CNN put witnesses on the air that morning who very clearly saw a helicopter. 

Were those witnesses wrong? 


See, there are witnesses who saw a 7575, who saw a small 12-person plane, and who say a chopper.

When you have that many different accounts, you cannot rely on their evidence.  you go to the videotape.  Which they are hiding.  Odd?

where are these people that saw a something else hit the Pentagon?
dude, you've seen way to many x-files. and hows that 911 retirement going?


staw man,, or whoever you are. its been how long and you still have no clue about 911? it was 6 years ago and your still asking questions. make up your fuking mind

[Straw Man]

where are these people that saw a something else hit the Pentagon?
dude, you've seen way to many x-files. and hows that 911 retirement going?


staw man,, or whoever you are. its been how long and you still have no clue about 911? it was 6 years ago and your still asking questions. make up your fuking mind

oh right

I should draw some final conclusion

you think 6 years, with more info coming out each year is more than enough time

so I guess I should decide

I lean toward something other than the story about the 19 guys (Saudi's?) with box cutters

pentagon? not sure - looks bad

WTC7? Looks pretty f'ng bad

I'm open to all points of view

try to stay on topic and don't tell me to look at something else and then agree that it proves the first thing

[headhuntersix]

240...give it up. People saw the damm plane hit. People I know saw the damm plane hit. Ok i agree, lack of wreckage etc etc. I don't know the first thing about structural engineering or forensics  so i really can't comment on what would happen if an airplane hit that building. U can't site this guy as a crediable expert. He's an intel weenie who looks at small things though a magnifing glass. Do u know how many advanced Soviet aircraft popped up that idiots like this misses or said didn't exist.

[Straw Man]

240 when are you going to admit the world really is flat

it's so fucking obvious

[kh300]

the same people that believe in this shit, are the same nerds going out at night looking for a ufo, or going out trying to find a bigfoot, or a lake monster. its just entertaining for ya. its reminds me of a show i watched about crop circle researchers. a bunch of guys claimed they were responsible for making the circles. the researches were like "no way you could make some of those". but the guys made every cirlce they asked for. but those researchers still didn't believe it. they want the circles to be made by ufo's so bad they completely ignored the obvious.

in a 911 ct'ers mind. they know they're wrong. but to them its so cool and fascinating that our government would pull this off,, its all they want to believe.

[Straw Man]

the same people that believe in this shit, are the same nerds going out at night looking for a ufo, or going out trying to find a bigfoot, or a lake monster. its just entertaining for ya. its reminds me of a show i watched about crop circle researchers. a bunch of guys claimed they were responsible for making the circles. the researches were like "no way you could make some of those". but the guys made every cirlce they asked for. but those researchers still didn't believe it. they want the circles to be made by ufo's so bad they completely ignored the obvious.

in a 911 ct'ers mind. they know they're wrong. but to them its so cool and fascinating that our government would pull this off,, its all they want to believe.

you could have made the same point with the space bar

[OzmO]

OzmO -

Why do you think they won't release any of the 85 videos?

Switching issues are we?  from the crack pot general to the "85" videos?  Maybe cause the crackpot general looks just too stupid now.

I'm going to switch issues on you too..


Why did GOD make the bumble bees wings too small?

[OzmO]

This man starts his video mocking "the jews were told to get out of the building".

he is one ignorant fucker.  You know that, right?

Aside from the fact he's giggling thru the piece, the fact he spouts an outright lie in the opening 6 seconds kinda makes me not to want to watch the rest.

pot, kettle

[Straw Man]

Switching issues are we?  from the crack pot general to the "85" videos?  Maybe cause the crackpot general looks just too stupid now.

I'm going to switch issues on you too..


Why did GOD make the bumble bees wings too small?

try to stay on topic.  I didn't post those videos and I didn't change the subject.  Here's what I asked you before and you still haven't responded back.  Instead you ask about bumble bees??

like I said, post more direct links to info so I can check it out for myself and decide for myself what the facts are and see if it has any relevence to the event at the pentagon of if there is even enough info to draw any conclusion.   Posting a couple of pictures and then telling me what to think is not going to work.

Let's get back to the point of this post for a second

The video is of a person who claims to be a two star general (retired I assume). 

He claims to be  trained and supposedly an  expert in analyzing photos and drawing some conclusion (I'm sure it's much more complicated than that). 

He's presenting his opinion

what are your credentials or expertise in this area

Why should I believe your opinion over his or my own

[Dos Equis]

the same people that believe in this shit, are the same nerds going out at night looking for a ufo, or going out trying to find a bigfoot, or a lake monster. its just entertaining for ya. its reminds me of a show i watched about crop circle researchers. a bunch of guys claimed they were responsible for making the circles. the researches were like "no way you could make some of those". but the guys made every cirlce they asked for. but those researchers still didn't believe it. they want the circles to be made by ufo's so bad they completely ignored the obvious.

in a 911 ct'ers mind. they know they're wrong. but to them its so cool and fascinating that our government would pull this off,, its all they want to believe.

I agree.  Not a whole lot of common sense involved in this conspiracy theory.  It's bizarre. 

[OzmO]

try to stay on topic.  I didn't post those videos and I didn't change the subject.  Here's what I asked you before and you still haven't responded back.  Instead you ask about bumble bees??

like I said, post more direct links to info so I can check it out for myself and decide for myself what the facts are and see if it has any relevence to the event at the pentagon of if there is even enough info to draw any conclusion.   Posting a couple of pictures and then telling me what to think is not going to work.

Let's get back to the point of this post for a second

The video is of a person who claims to be a two star general (retired I assume). 

He claims to be  trained and supposedly an  expert in analyzing photos and drawing some conclusion (I'm sure it's much more complicated than that). 

He's presenting his opinion

what are your credentials or expertise in this area

Why should I believe your opinion over his or my own

,  i'm not asking you to believe anything.  That's something you need to do on your own.  90% of what you read in this thread is between me and 240.

If you are interested i encourage you to research this yourself.

I've already answered you but i don't think you've read it.

The pictures i posted came with link to the original news story (below the pic).  You can google ("plane crashes into building") if you'd like to find them your self.

So i'll say it again:

Teh contention of the 9/11 CTer's is that the a plane would have made a bigger hole than it did in the pentagon therfore it wasn't a plane.

The pics i showed was of a C-130 that crashed into an apartment building in Tehran.  Do you see plane debris?  Do you see a hole the size of the c-130?

Combine that with the f-4 crashing into the concrete.

Hope this helps you.

[Cavalier22]

there are helicopters flying in the area of the pentagon area ALL THE FUCKING time.  what does one flying on 9/11 prove

[Straw Man]

I know nothing about those crashes which is why I can't draw any conclusions or make any comparisons to the Pentagon.   You've shown 1 photo from each crash.  That tells me almost nothing.  You're the one who presented this as proof of something so you should be the one to provide more information.  I actually have no time to devote to this shit during the week.   Since you presented these two photos as some kind of proof here are just a few questions for you:   1.  when were the photos taken (i.e how long after the crash), how many bodies were recovered from the plane,  Why no holes in the building (assuming we're making some comparison to the event at the Pentagon,  Why didn't the building collapse (i.e what make the Pentagon collapse while these buildings did not, Can you find some more photos of the ground (I would say closer to the time of the crash but I have no clue when the photos were taken.)    Do you see my point.   Two photos is not enough information to draw a conclusion about anything or make any kind of valid comparison.

You've called the two star general a "crackpot" based on what exactly?  I'm still waiting for you to show me some reason why a two star general who has been trained to something like this (btw - I'm sure it's much harder to draw a conclusion from a satellite photo or one taken from a spy plane) is a "crackpot" and the fact that he has reached a conclusion to which you don't agree is not relevent.

Again, what are your qualifications to review photographs and draw conclusions.    

[Dos Equis]

Perhaps this is why you have such a problem objectively seeing the 911 facts.

You honestly don't see the incredible power that 9/11 gave the Bush administration, do you?

You don't believe the ability to wage wars abroad, borrow nearly unlimited, award billion dollar contracts to friendly firms, change history to fit their ideology, and restrict rights at home, would be motivation enough to pull 9/11?

Not at all.  It just doesn't pass the common sense test. 

[OzmO]

You've called the two star general a "crackpot" based on what exactly?  I'm still waiting for you to show me some reason why a two star general who has been trained to something like this (btw - I'm sure it's much harder to draw a conclusion from a satellite photo or one taken from a spy plane) is a "crackpot" and the fact that he has reached a conclusion to which you don't agree is not relevent.

Again, what are your qualifications to review photographs and draw conclusions.   

Sigh,  pardon me if i sound like an asshole.

Did you watch the video?

Did you hear what he said he did?

How does what he siad he did for the military in 1984 qualify him as a person who can comment on a plane crahsing into a building?  Is he a structual engineer?  Is he a demolition expert?  Aircraft engineer?  Aircraft designer?  NO, No, No, No.

For him to make difinitive comments about this makes him a crackpot IMO.

Next,  RE: the c-130

I can't paint the picture or my point any more clearer for you.  If you want more info,  you'll have to do it yoru self as i have suggested.  If you don't have time, it's not my obligation to spend my time researching for you. 

[OzmO]

Again, what are your qualifications to review photographs and draw conclusions.   

No more than anyone else's on this board. 

But I'll for the 3rd time draw point out again:


The contention of the 9/11 CTer's is that the a plane would have made a bigger hole than it did in the pentagon therfore it wasn't a plane.

The pics i showed was of a C-130 that crashed into an apartment building in Tehran.  Do you see plane debris?  Do you see a hole the size of the c-130

Becuase of this their point isn't valid.

[Dos Equis]

Well, no offense, but you lack an understanding of history.  

It's happened throughout US history.  Faked attacks in order to justify a war.  I know you dropped out of the 8th grade and were a parent before you turned 18, and I think that may have affected your ability to learn about these things in college.  It's very real.  Common sense SHOULD dictate you don't kill 3000 americans to justify multiple wars and control at home.  But it doesn't work that way when it comes to billions of dollars, ingrained ideology on both sides, and plain old evil people.

I'm sorry you cannot comprehend this.  Must be frustrating for you.  It is for me. I sometimes forget I'm trying to convince a child about the intentions of men.

When I did say I was parent before 18? 

As I suspected, you are simply unable to handle people who disagree with you.  It is actually very childlike.  Cannot get an agreement or consensus, lash out and insult people.  I see it in kids all the time. 

I have no problem aligning myself with the plethora of normal, sane people who believe this conspiracy theory doesn't pass the common sense test. 

[Straw Man]

Sigh,  pardon me if i sound like an asshole.

Did you watch the video?

Did you hear what he said he did?

How does what he siad he did for the military in 1984 qualify him as a person who can comment on a plane crahsing into a building?  Is he a structual engineer?  Is he a demolition expert?  Aircraft engineer?  Aircraft designer?  NO, No, No, No.

For him to make difinitive comments about this makes him a crackpot IMO.

Next,  RE: the c-130

I can't paint the picture or my point any more clearer for you.  If you want more info,  you'll have to do it yoru self as i have suggested.  If you don't have time, it's not my obligation to spend my time researching for you. 

IMO - he sounds like no less of a crackpot than you, I or many other people.   He's drawing the same conclusions that many other people have drawn and in the past (presumabley since I know nothing about this person) he received  some training from our military and was competent enough to be promoted to 2 star general.  Again - what are you qualifications to render any opinion on this

Still no answers to my questions about the two other crashes.  You brought it up as proof of something yet you can't answer answer any follow up questions.   You present two still photos and draw a conclusion about another event and I'm supposed to just agree with you?  How about answering just one question - how many bodies were recovered from the planes in either of those crashes.   You must have found those photos somewhere.  Can you not even attach a link to some more info.  I'd like to draw my own conclusions rather than just agreeing with you based on nothing.  Surely the beginning and end of your argument is more than just two still photos.  

[a_joker10]

240-
A quick note, a fact is something proved beyond a reasonable doubt. What you conspiracy theorists argue is conjecture.

Conspiracy theory argue based on conjecture not facts. There is little validity in any argument that either of you make unit the scientific community backs up your claims. An uneducated observation is not fact.

Main Entry: fact
Pronunciation: 'fakt
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin factum, from neuter of factus, past participle of facere
1 : a thing done: as a obsolete : FEAT b : CRIME <accessory after the fact> c archaic : ACTION
2 archaic : PERFORMANCE, DOING
3 : the quality of being actual : ACTUALITY <a question of fact hinges on evidence>
4 a : something that has actual existence <space exploration is now a fact> b : an actual occurrence <prove the fact of damage>
5 : a piece of information presented as having objective reality


A conjecture is
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=conjecture
Main Entry: 1con·jec·ture
Pronunciation: k&n-'jek-ch&r
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French or Latin; Middle French, from Latin conjectura, from conjectus, past participle of conicere, literally, to throw together, from com- + jacere to throw -- more at JET
1 obsolete a : interpretation of omens b : SUPPOSITION
2 a : inference from defective or presumptive evidence b : a conclusion deduced by surmise or guesswork c : a proposition (as in mathematics) before it has been proved or disproved

[OzmO]

Well, no offense, but you lack an understanding of history. 

It's happened throughout US history.  Faked attacks in order to justify a war.  I know you dropped out of the 8th grade and were a parent before you turned 18, and I think that may have affected your ability to learn about these things in college.  It's very real.  Common sense SHOULD dictate you don't kill 3000 americans to justify multiple wars and control at home.  But it doesn't work that way when it comes to billions of dollars, ingrained ideology on both sides, and plain old evil people.

I'm sorry you cannot comprehend this.  Must be frustrating for you.  It is for me. I sometimes forget I'm trying to convince a child about the intentions of men.

You know what 240.

I buy into the fact that the US government is willing to lie and do shit to start a war.

But i don't think they intentionally killed 3000 people.  Becuase it is only by shear luck that 10,000 people weren't killed in the towers.

And as much as i think neo-cons are evil, i don;t think they'd do this themselves, i rather believe they'd allow it to happen.