Bush caught lying!!!

[Hugo Chavez]

mm69,

Bush has lied.  Every president tells lies. 

I just wish you'd step up and say "yeah, he has, nobody's perfect".  Even Mr Intenseone, a big bush supporter, has admitted that bush has lied.

Why can't you?

Because it's the caliber of lies he can't admit to.  He'd be popular as hell if we were just talking about Bush lying over an extramartial affair.  but what Bush has lied about, well...

[Dos Equis]

I know...ask one of these guys to PROVE he was lied.

Lying: a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood

See, since all they can do is make assumptions on Bush's intent they can't PROVE he lied. Oh they will come with all kinds of information that was presented and say he cherry picked info in order to decieve the public but again they can't prove it. You will quickly find that proof isn't required here until you blow up one of their arguments.

I completely agree. 

[militarymuscle69]

BWWAAAAAAAAhahahhahahahhahahhahhahahahahaha When does he not lie...


Lies lies lies: http://www.downingstreetmemo.com/whycare.html

CLAIM vs. FACT
Pre-War Assertions

PRE-WAR INTELLIGENCE HYPE

CLAIM: "I expected to find the weapons [because] I based my decision on the best intelligence possible...The evidence I had was the best possible evidence that he had a weapon."

FACT - WHITE HOUSE REPEATEDY WARNED BY INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY:  The Washington Post reported this weekend, "President Bush and his top advisers ignored many of the caveats and qualifiers included in the classified report on Saddam Hussein's weapons." Specifically, the President made unequivocal statements that Iraq "has got chemical weapons" two months after the DIA concluded that there was "no reliable information on whether Iraq is producing and stockpiling chemical weapons." He said, "Iraq has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes suitable for nuclear weapons production" three months after the White House received an intelligence report that clearly indicated Department of Energy experts concluded the tubes were not intended to produce uranium enrichment centrifuges. He said, "Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa," three months after "the CIA sent two memos to the White House in October voicing strong doubts about" the claim. [Sources: WP, 2/7/04; Bush statement, 11/3/02; DIA report, 2002; Bush statement, 1/28/03; NIE, October 2002; WP, 7/23/03; Bush statement, 10/7/02; WP, 9/26/03]

IGNORING INTELLIGENCE

CLAIM: "We looked at the intelligence."

FACT – WHITE HOUSE IGNORED INTELLIGENCE WARNINGS: Knight Ridder reported that CIA officers "said President Bush ignored warnings" that his WMD case was weak. And Greg Thielmann, the Bush State Department's top intelligence official, "said suspicions were presented as fact, and contrary arguments ignored." Knight Ridder later reported, "Senior diplomatic, intelligence and military officials have charged that Bush and his top aides made assertions about Iraq's banned weapons programs and alleged links to al-Qaeda that weren't supported by credible intelligence, and that they ignored intelligence that didn't support their policies." [Knight-Ridder, 6/13/03; CBS News, 6/7/03; Knight Ridder, 6/28/03]

IGNORING INTERNATIONAL INTELLIGENCE WARNINGS

CLAIM: "The international community thought he had weapons."

FACT – INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY TOLD WHITE HOUSE THE OPPOSITE: The IAEA and U.N. both repeatedly told the Administration it had no evidence that Iraq possessed WMD. On 2/15/03, the IAEA said that, "We have to date found no evidence of ongoing prohibited nuclear or nuclear-related activities in Iraq." On 3/7/03 IAEA Director Mohamed ElBaradei said nuclear experts have found "no indication" that Iraq has tried to import high-strength aluminum tubes for centrifuge enrichment of uranium. At the same time, AP reported that "U.N. weapons inspectors have not found any 'smoking guns' in Iraq during their search for weapons WMD." AP also reported, "U.N. weapons inspector Hans Blix said his teams have not uncovered any WMD."  [Source: WP, 2/15/03; NY Times, 3/7/03; AP, 1/9/03; AP, 2/14/03]

INFORMING CONGRESS OF INTELLIGENCE CAVEATS

CLAIM: "I went to Congress with the same intelligence. Congress saw the same intelligence I had, and they looked at exactly what I looked at."

FACT – CONGRESS WAS OUTRAGED AT PRESENTATION BY THE WHITE HOUSE: The New Republic reported, "Senators were outraged to find that intelligence info given to them omitted the qualifications and countervailing evidence that had characterized the classified version and played up the claims that strengthened the administration's case for war." According to Rep. Paul Kanjorski (D-PA), many House members were only convinced to support the war after the Administration "showed them a photograph of a small, unmanned airplane spraying a liquid in what appeared to be a test for delivering chemical and biological agents," despite the U.S. Air Force telling the Administration it "sharply disputed the notion that Iraq's UAVs were being designed as attack weapons." [Source: The New Republic, 6/30/03; Wilkes Barre Times Leader, 1/6/04; WP, 9/26/03]

CLAIM vs. FACT
Pre-War Assertions

PRE-WAR "IMMINENT THREAT" ASSERTION

CLAIM: "I believe it is essential that when we see a threat, we deal with those threats before they become imminent. It's too late if they become imminent."

FACT – ADMINISTRATION REPEATEDLY CLAIMED IRAQ WAS AN "IMMINENT THREAT": The Bush Administration repeatedly claimed that Iraq was an imminent threat before the war – not that it would "become imminent." Specifically, White House communications director Dan Bartlett was asked on CNN: "Is [Saddam Hussein] an imminent threat to US interests, either in that part of the world or to Americans right here at home?" Bartlett replied, "Well, of course he is." Similarly, when White House spokesman Ari Fleischer was asked whether America went to war in Iraq because of an imminent threat, he replied, "Absolutely." And White House spokesman Scott McClellan said the reason NATO allies – including the U.S. - should support the defense of one of its members from Iraq was because "this is about an imminent threat." Additionally, the Administration used "immediate," "urgent" and "mortal" to describe the Iraq threat to the United States. [Source: American Progress list, 1/29/04]

BUSH'S THREAT RHETORIC BEFORE THE WAR

CLAIM: "I think, if I might remind you that in my language I called it a grave and gathering threat, but I don't want to get into word contests."

FACT – BUSH MADE FAR MORE DIRE STATEMENTS BEFORE THE WAR: While the President did call Iraq a "grave and gathering" threat, that was not all he said. On 11/23/02, he said Iraq posed a "unique and urgent threat." On 1/3/03 he said "Iraq is a threat to any American." On 10/28/02 he said Iraq was "a real and dangerous threat" to America. On 10/2/02 he said, "The Iraqi regime is a threat of unique urgency" and that Iraq posed "a grave threat" to America. [Bush, 11/23/02; Bush; 1/3/03; Bush, 10/28/02; Bush, 10/2/02; Bush, 10/2/02]

SADDAM-AL QAEDA-WMD CONNECTION

CLAIM: "Iraq had the capacity to make a weapon and then let that weapon fall into the hands of a shadowy terrorist network."

FACT – ASSERTION BELIES PREVIOUS INTELLIGENCE ASSESSMENTS: This assertion belies the 2002 National Intelligence Estimate which told the White House that Iraq would most likely only coordinate with Al Qaeda if the U.S. invaded Iraq. As the NYT reported, "[A] CIA assessment said last October: 'Baghdad for now appears to be drawing a line short of conducting terrorist attacks' in the United States." The CIA added that Saddam might order attacks with WMD as 'his last chance to exact vengeance by taking a large number of victims with him.'" Previously, the CIA had told the White House that Iraq "has not provided chemical or biological weapons to Al Qaeda or related terrorist groups." And David Kay himself said, " I found no real connection between WMD and terrorists" in Iraq. [Source: NIE, 2002; NY Times, 1/29/03; NY Times, 2/6/02; NBC News, 1/26/04]

DAVID KAY'S REPORT

CLAIM: "And when David Kay goes in and says we haven't found stockpiles yet, and there's theories as to where the weapons went. They could have been destroyed during the war. Saddam and his henchmen could have destroyed them as we entered into Iraq. They could be hidden. They could have been transported to another country, and we'll find out."

FACT – KAY ACTUALLY SAID WMD HAD BEEN DESTROYED AFTER 1991: David Kay didn't say we haven't found the stockpiles of chemical weapons because they are destroyed, hidden or transported to another country. Kay said that they were never produced and hadn't been produced since 1991. As he said, "Multiple sources with varied access and reliability have told ISG that Iraq did not have a large, ongoing, centrally controlled CW program after 1991. Information found to date suggests that Iraq's large-scale capability to develop, produce and fill new CW munitions was reduced - if not entirely destroyed - during Operations Desert Storm and Desert Fox, 13 years of U.N. sanctions and U.N. inspections." [Kay Testimony, 2004] - The entire Progress Report

You still never proved he lied. Face it, if he gets intell from 2 people, he can't follow both. You claim ignoring intell because he didn't choose the side you liked. If he had ignored the other side you would still calim ignore intell. YOU CAN"T PROVE HE LIED!!! Ignoring intell isn't even in the same realm.

[Hugo Chavez]

You still never proved he lied. Face it, if he gets intell from 2 people, he can't follow both. You claim ignoring intell because he didn't choose the side you liked. If he had ignored the other side you would still calim ignore intell. YOU CAN"T PROVE HE LIED!!! Ignoring intell isn't even in the same realm.

Oh brother....

[militarymuscle69]

Oh brother....

Well? You didn't

[Hugo Chavez]

Well? You didn't

apparently not for the deaf dumb and blind

[militarymuscle69]

apparently not for the deaf dumb and blind

Way to avoid the FACT you can't prove Bush lied. I still think you and OzmO are the same person. Everytime you both are proven wrong (alot) you just throw insults.

[tu_holmes]

Way to avoid the FACT you can't prove Bush lied. I still think you and OzmO are the same person. Everytime you both are proven wrong (alot) you just throw insults.

I don't think there's any question that Bush did in fact Lie... the real question that you should be asking is, "Was it intentional?".

[Dos Equis]

I don't think there's any question that Bush did in fact Lie... the real question that you should be asking is, "Was it intentional?".

The difference between a "lie" and an untrue statement is intent. 

[tu_holmes]

The difference between a "lie" and an untrue statement is intent. 

Perhaps, but most people will not make a distinction... and in reality, when you're the leader of the free world... perhaps you must be held to a higher standard... intent or not, you have told an untruth, and it has turned out to have grave consequencees.

[Dos Equis]

Perhaps, but most people will not make a distinction... and in reality, when you're the leader of the free world... perhaps you must be held to a higher standard... intent or not, you have told an untruth, and it has turned out to have grave consequencees.

I agree leaders should be held to a higher standard, but there is no ambiguity in my mind about how you define a "lie."  You either intended to mislead someone or you didn't.  Mistakes don't = lies. 

[tu_holmes]

I agree leaders should be held to a higher standard, but there is no ambiguity in my mind about how you define a "lie."  You either intended to mislead someone or you didn't.  Mistakes don't = lies. 

I agree leaders should be held to a higher standard, but there is no ambiguity in my mind about how you define a "lie."  You either intended to mislead someone or you didn't.  Mistakes don't = lies. 

While I agree with you... The dictionary definition does also define a lie as "an inaccurate or false statement".

Either way... Bush is still a retard... Actually, he makes retarded people everywhere look bad.

[Dos Equis]

While I agree with you... The dictionary definition does also define a lie as "an inaccurate or false statement".

Either way... Bush is still a retard... Actually, he makes retarded people everywhere look bad.

Not my dictionary.  From Webster's:  "a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive." 

[tu_holmes]

Not my dictionary.  From Webster's:  "a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive." 

1.   a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.
2.   something intended or serving to convey a false impression; imposture: His flashy car was a lie that deceived no one.
3.   an inaccurate or false statement.
4.   the charge or accusation of lying: He flung the lie back at his accusers.
–verb (used without object)
5.   to speak falsely or utter untruth knowingly, as with intent to deceive.
6.   to express what is false; convey a false impression.
–verb (used with object)
7.   to bring about or affect by lying (often used reflexively): to lie oneself out of a difficulty; accustomed to lying his way out of difficulties.
—Idioms
8.   give the lie to,
a.   to accuse of lying; contradict.
b.   to prove or imply the falsity of; belie: His poor work gives the lie to his claims of experience.
9.   lie in one's throat or teeth, to lie grossly or maliciously: If she told you exactly the opposite of what she told me, she must be lying in her teeth. Also, lie through one's teeth.



Random House Unabridged Dictionary.


At least you're not denying he's a retard.

[Dos Equis]

1.   a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.
2.   something intended or serving to convey a false impression; imposture: His flashy car was a lie that deceived no one.
3.   an inaccurate or false statement.
4.   the charge or accusation of lying: He flung the lie back at his accusers.
–verb (used without object)
5.   to speak falsely or utter untruth knowingly, as with intent to deceive.
6.   to express what is false; convey a false impression.
–verb (used with object)
7.   to bring about or affect by lying (often used reflexively): to lie oneself out of a difficulty; accustomed to lying his way out of difficulties.
—Idioms
8.   give the lie to,
a.   to accuse of lying; contradict.
b.   to prove or imply the falsity of; belie: His poor work gives the lie to his claims of experience.
9.   lie in one's throat or teeth, to lie grossly or maliciously: If she told you exactly the opposite of what she told me, she must be lying in her teeth. Also, lie through one's teeth.



Random House Unabridged Dictionary.


At least you're not denying he's a retard.

lol.     He's not a retard.  Graduated from Harvard and Yale.  Helped build one of the best stadiums in the country as a minority owner of the Texas Rangers.  Took down one of the most popular governors in the country.  Leader of the free world.  I'd say he has done okay for a "retard."   

And we'll have to agree to disagree on the definition of a lie.  I think the law requires intent.  Most people require intent.  I do as a parent when I'm dealing with my kids.  One of the lone exceptions is the group of people who talk about Bush and WMDs. 

[Colossus_500]

lol.     He's not a retard.  Graduated from Harvard and Yale.  Helped build one of the best stadiums in the country as a minority owner of the Texas Rangers.  Took down one of the most popular governors in the country.  Leader of the free world.  I'd say he has done okay for a "retard."   

And we'll have to agree to disagree on the definition of a lie.  I think the law requires intent.  Most people require intent.  I do as a parent when I'm dealing with my kids.  One of the lone exceptions is the group of people who talk about Bush and WMDs. 

Well said, bro.

[gymforlord]

Well said, bro.

I agree...

[tu_holmes]

lol.     He's not a retard.  Graduated from Harvard and Yale.  Helped build one of the best stadiums in the country as a minority owner of the Texas Rangers.  Took down one of the most popular governors in the country.  Leader of the free world.  I'd say he has done okay for a "retard."  

And we'll have to agree to disagree on the definition of a lie.  I think the law requires intent.  Most people require intent.  I do as a parent when I'm dealing with my kids.  One of the lone exceptions is the group of people who talk about Bush and WMDs. 

I never said retards couldn't be beneficial to society... I just said they were retards.

I find it interesting that of all of the things you mention about how he's done this and that... It's pretty obvious that if his name wasn't George Bush... he wouldn't have been able to do any of it.

It's not like he picked himself up from nothing to become something... as a matter of fact, most people would say he's actually done just the opposite.

[Dos Equis]

Well said, bro.

Thank you sirs.    

[gymforlord]

Thank you sirs.    

U R welcome, Sir

[Dos Equis]

I never said retards couldn't be beneficial to society... I just said they were retards.

I find it interesting that of all of the things you mention about how he's done this and that... It's pretty obvious that if his name wasn't George Bush... he wouldn't have been able to do any of it.

It's not like he picked himself up from nothing to become something... as a matter of fact, most people would say he's actually done just the opposite.

Sure his name and family background helped him.  No question.  But if you're saying he underachieved, I have to laugh at that Tu.  He went from a graduate of two IVY League schools to part owner of a professional sports franchise to Governor of Texas to two-time President of the United States.  What more could the man have possibly accomplished with this life?  You expect him to be elected Pope or something?  Given the fact he is not very articulate and probably won't be getting his MENSA card anytime soon, his accomplishments are nothing short of remarkable.  I'd say he overachieved.  

[tu_holmes]

Sure his name and family background helped him.  No question.  But if you're saying he underachieved, I have to laugh at that Tu.  He went from a graduate of two IVY League schools to part owner of a professional sports franchise to Governor of Texas to two-time President of the United States.  What more could the man have possibly accomplished with this life?  You expect him to be elected Pope or something?  Given the fact he is not very articulate and probably won't be getting his MENSA card anytime soon, his accomplishments are nothing short of remarkable.  I'd say he overachieved.  

Oh I can agree with that... I would have never thought a retard would have done any of those things.

Certainly shows that retards are people too.

[240 is Back]

And we'll have to agree to disagree on the definition of a lie.  I think the law requires intent. 

You "think"?

Can you please back that up with something other than your "think"ing?  Source?  thanks in advance.

[Dos Equis]

You "think"?

Can you please back that up with something other than your "think"ing?  Source?  thanks in advance.

Look it up yourself.     It's too elementary for me to waste my time.  And all you do is run from the facts (or change the subject) anyway. 

[240 is Back]

Look it up yourself.     It's too elementary for me to waste my time.  And all you do is run from the facts (or change the subject) anyway. 

I'm supposed to look up what you "think"?

Okay, is there a book where I can find it?  "My Pet Goat", maybe?