Biblical Contradictions/Difficulties?

[Butterbean]

liberalismo asked these on the State your World Views thread.  Thought they would be a good thread of their own.

At creation, which came first, the humans or the various 'beasts'?

Did Jesus ride into Jerusalem on a Colt or an Ass?

Who destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah?

Has anyone visually seen God?

How did Judas die?

Does God ever change or is he unchanging?

Was God pleased or displeased with his creations?

Who lived the flood beside Noah, his family and the Animals on the Ark? Did the Nephilim die in the flood or did they live the flood?

Does God ever tempt?

Does God oppose the killing of innocent people?

Where did Aaron die?

[laurion]

People who pay too close attention the the "details" of stories miss the forest for the trees.  They are much like the Pharisees and Saducees of Jesus' time who were so caught up with their ancient written scrolls waiting for a leader of war and liberator of their people that they missed the pacifist liberator of their people.

[Butterbean]

People who pay too close attention the the "details" of stories miss the forest for the trees.  They are much like the Pharisees and Saducees of Jesus' time who were so caught up with their ancient written scrolls waiting for a leader of war and liberator of their people that they missed the pacifist liberator of their people.

good post



At creation, which came first, the humans or the various 'beasts'?
Humans

Did Jesus ride into Jerusalem on a Colt or an Ass?
The colt of an ass

Who destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah?
God

Has anyone visually seen God?
In true, unveiled form?  Yes, Jesus. 

How did Judas die?
He hung himself.  Later his body fell down and his guts burst open (imo he was already dead at this time).

Does God ever change or is he unchanging?
God is God.  Maybe you could be more specific or just ask the question you are thinking about?

Was God pleased or displeased with his creations?
First He was pleased but later displeased.

Who lived the flood beside Noah, his family and the Animals on the Ark? Did the Nephilim die in the flood or did they live the flood?
Are you asking what other people survived the flood other than Noah, his family?  None.
What definition are you using for Nephilim?

Does God ever tempt?
If you mean tempt to sin, no, I don't believe so.

Does God oppose the killing of innocent people?
I guess He wouldn't consider anyone as "purely innocent."  Again, maybe you could just ask the question you're thinking about? 

Where did Aaron die?
I had to look this one up!  The question you are thinking about probably involves Deut 10:6 and Numbers 33:30.  Here is what I found after googling:

moserah” in Smith's Bible Dictionary
Mo´serah (bonds), Deut. 10:6, apparently the same as Moseroth, Num. 33:30, its plural form, the name of a place near Mount Hor.

[liberalismo]

At creation, which came first, the humans or the various 'beasts'?
Humans

But in Genesis 1, the 'Beasts' came first. Beasts came in Genesis 1:24, Humans came in 1:26.

Who destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah?
God

Did God do it himself with Fire and Brimstone or did he send 2 angels to do it?

Has anyone visually seen God?
In true, unveiled form?  Yes, Jesus. 

Not Abraham? What about Jacob? The Bible says that him and God talked face to face.

How did Judas die?
He hung himself.  Later his body fell down and his guts burst open (imo he was already dead at this time).

Why doesn't Acts 1:18  mention that he hung himself?

Does God ever change or is he unchanging?
God is God.  Maybe you could be more specific or just ask the question you are thinking about?

Malachi 3:6 
For I am the Lord, I change not.

1 Samuel 15:29 
The Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent.


Compare to:

Exodus 32:14 
And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

1 Samuel 15:35
The Lord repented that he had made Saul king over Israel.

Jeremaih 18:8
I [God] will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.

Was God pleased or displeased with his creations?
First He was pleased but later displeased.

I thought God was omnipotent and omniscient. How could be be pleased at first with something, that he knew would disappoint him and he knew he would later be displeased with?

Who lived the flood beside Noah, his family and the Animals on the Ark? Did the Nephilim die in the flood or did they live the flood?
Are you asking what other people survived the flood other than Noah, his family?  None.
What definition are you using for Nephilim?

The bible says that "every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth died" and "All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died."

Does God ever tempt?
If you mean tempt to sin, no, I don't believe so.

Tempted at all.




I'll respond to the rest later.

[laurion]

Again, why does this matter at all?  Does anyone of those questions answers change the point of any of the stories..... come on think about it.  These are all moot points.

[Butterbean]

But in Genesis 1, the 'Beasts' came first. Beasts came in Genesis 1:24, Humans came in 1:26.

Oops yes that's right.  Sorry, I typed humans by mistake!  I meant beasts.

Now to what I think you will refer next...Gen 2:19 ..is that correct?

Did God do it himself with Fire and Brimstone or did he send 2 angels to do it?

Ultimately it was God who did it.  According to Gen 19:24, God did it.  Could he have done it through the 2 angels?  I believe sure He could have.  But maybe He didn't.

I know you are referring to Gen 19:13 also.  This does not confirm that the angels DID it or not.   I suppose it could also mean that collectively it may be done.

Not Abraham? What about Jacob? The Bible says that him and God talked face to face.

Can you give me the scripture reference to which you are referring re: Abraham?

As for Jacob, no Jacob did not see God in unveiled form. 

Why doesn't Acts 1:18  mention that he hung himself?

Why should it?

[OzmO]

Again, why does this matter at all?  Does anyone of those questions answers change the point of any of the stories..... come on think about it.  These are all moot points.

It matters to those who believe every word printed in the bible is the infallible word of god. 

If you except that, then you accept god ordering the killing of innocent children.

[big L dawg]

Again, why does this matter at all?  Does anyone of those questions answers change the point of any of the stories..... come on think about it.  These are all moot points.

your right lies are lies no need to get into specifics.

[Butterbean]

Malachi 3:6 
For I am the Lord, I change not.

1 Samuel 15:29 
The Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent.


Compare to:

Exodus 32:14 
And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

1 Samuel 15:35
The Lord repented that he had made Saul king over Israel.

Jeremaih 18:8
I [God] will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.

The most acceptable explanation to me is that since God knows everything, past, present and future, that the feelings of repentance (sorrow etc) are understandable when bad things happen but I believe that God doesn't CHANGE what His intentions/plans are. 

But I do think this is very interesting!  I would like MCWAY and loco's thoughts on this as I have wondered about it in the past.

I thought God was omnipotent and omniscient. How could be be pleased at first with something, that he knew would disappoint him and he knew he would later be displeased with?

Do you think that people with children don't know that at some point they will be disappointed w/them?

I believe that yes, God knew that people would disappoint Him.  But He gave us life anyway because he loves us.

The bible says that "every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth died" and "All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died."

Yes. 

Maybe you missed this before:  What is your definition of Nephilim? 

Tempted at all.

I believe He tests people but does not tempt them to sin.  You could just give me the scripture you're thinking about and I will try to address it

[MCWAY]

The most acceptable explanation to me is that since God knows everything, past, present and future, that the feelings of repentance (sorrow etc) are understandable when bad things happen but I believe that God doesn't CHANGE what His intentions/plans are. 

But I do think this is very interesting!  I would like MCWAY and loco's thoughts on this as I have wondered about it in the past.

You rang!!???


Let's look at Ex. 32.14:

AHHHHH!!!! The old golden calf debacle. Moses interceded on behalf of the people, while they were praising "Bessie" for their deliverance from Egypt. It appears as if the Lord was going to punish the lot of them. Moses got the number cut down to about 3,000, which he and the Levties dealt the sentence themselves. Of course, in the end, Israel kept acting up, resulting in a two-week trip taking 40 years, during which "all of the generation who did evil in the sight of the Lord was consumed". So, I'd say God's sentence was merely delayed. He gave them mercy and they still disobeyed.

1 Sam 15. The Saul incident: Saul had already goofed up in several instances, yet the Lord had mercy on him, anyway. But the final straw came when it came to the Amalekites (cue Ozmo). After 300+ years of assaulting the Israelites unprovoked, the Amalekites had worn out their welcome with God's grace. The edict was given: No more Amalekites....They were to be destroyed, everyone and everything.

You know the rest. Saul spared the king (and a handful of other folks) and kept the choice lifestock, gold, and silver for himself. On top of all, he lied to Samuel's face, claiming he did the Lord's bidding and followed His instructions. A few "moos" and "baaahs" later, the jig was up. By failing to destroy one of Israel's most savage enemies and lying to the prophet, claiming that he'd done God's will, Saul had used up his final lifeline. The kingdom would be stripped from him and his family. GAME OVER!!!
 
You must also remember that God told Samuel, when he anointed Saul, that Israel ultimately rejected Him, when they demanded an earthly king. God wanted to spare them the headache and problems that usually occur in a regular monarchy. But, they weren't hearing it. Saul had a chance to steer the people's heart back to God. But, by his actions, he failed to do that.

Jer. 18:8 - The first half of that verse pretty much spells it out, regarding the nation of this particular scenario:

If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.


In all the verses and the nations/people listed, there's one common theme: A people/nation were steeped in wickedness. God thought to bring judgment on them. HOWEVER, He gave them the opportunity to repent and be spared. The Israelites got another chance; so did Saul; and so did the people of Judah.

Imagine that......God giving people a chance to repent of their sins. I thought He was Mr. Meanie!!!!

[ATHEIST]

Again, why does this matter at all?  Does anyone of those questions answers change the point of any of the stories..... come on think about it.  These are all moot points.

why would you not expect the written word of God to be accountable? your fate depends on the word of God.

[laurion]

God who inspired the book may be infallible but humans who penned it are prone to all kinds of sin........  God reveals himself over time not all at once. 

[Necrosis]

God who inspired the book may be infallible but humans who penned it are prone to all kinds of sin........  God reveals himself over time not all at once. 

oh i didnt know this, were did you find this unknowable info at?

if god knows the future it doesnt make any sense to send jesus to die for our sins, its complete stupidity,I can see that and im human.

there is even a branch of theology that tries to cover up this contradiction. The only way you cannot view this as a gross logical fallacy is if you are close minded.

[laurion]

Oh i didn't know this, where did you find this unknowable faith at?

 

If God knows the future it doesn't make any sense to send Jesus to die for our sins, (if we accept him, it's still our choice) its complete faith,I can see that and i'm human.

WHY?

There is even a branch of theology that tries to cover up this contradiction. The only way you cannot view this as a gross logical fallacy is if you are faithfull.

Congratulations, you have figured out everything regarding life and you need no help from a higher power, life is easy and you will never need a little faith because you are your own God. 

The fact is that if you live your life with a little humility toward things you are incapable of knowing life will reward you.  Even if you choose not to believe in a higher power would you agree that when you do positive things your life will be more positive and less full of stress?  No matter what we choose to believe if we put negativity into the world that's just what we seem to get in return, now we can create all kinds of reasons as to why this happens or we can live peaceably and spiritually through the directions left for us by our ancestors.  Those of us who refuse to listen to the past will never change the negativity they are currently in, and they may tell themselves and others that they need no help but no man is an island and everyone needs a hand from time to time.

[Straw Man]

doesn't the bible suggest that the earth is fixed and the sun moves around it?

How did the "creator" get that one wrong?

[laurion]

doesn't the bible suggest that the earth is fixed and the sun moves around it.

How did the "creator" get that one wrong

1st. NO

2nd.

God who inspired the book may be infallible but humans who penned it are prone to all kinds of errors........

[Straw Man]

1st. NO

really?

are you familiar with this guy:   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_Galilei

[laurion]

really?

are you familiar with this guy:   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_Galilei

LMFAO, yes very familiar..... Galileo Galilei (15 February 1564 – 8 January 1642) I don't know what is that a full 1564 years after Christ?

go here please (a random google search of your question producing the results you need)
http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/2178

no offense but again LMFAO 

[Straw Man]

LMFAO, yes very familiar..... Galileo Galilei (15 February 1564 – 8 January 1642) I don't know what is that a full 1564 years after Christ?

go here please (a random google search of your question producing the results you need)
http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/2178

no offense but again LMFAO 

you don't think the bible says the earth is fixed and the sun moves around it and you're the one laughing?

who do you think the apologist is here?

[Necrosis]

Congratulations, you have figured out everything regarding life and you need no help from a higher power, life is easy and you will never need a little faith because you are your own God. 

The fact is that if you live your life with a little humility toward things you are incapable of knowing life will reward you.  Even if you choose not to believe in a higher power would you agree that when you do positive things your life will be more positive and less full of stress?  No matter what we choose to believe if we put negativity into the world that's just what we seem to get in return, now we can create all kinds of reasons as to why this happens or we can live peaceably and spiritually through the directions left for us by our ancestors.  Those of us who refuse to listen to the past will never change the negativity they are currently in, and they may tell themselves and others that they need no help but no man is an island and everyone needs a hand from time to time.

sorry i will spellcheck my posts like other meatbags on this forum. I will never forget where insted of were, i will use you're insted of your. Perhaps(look at the capital) if i wasn't so worried about grammar like you i could form cogent arguments.


"The fact is that if you live your life with a little humility toward things you are incapable of knowing life will reward you.  Even if you choose not to believe in a higher power would you agree that when you do positive things your life will be more positive and less full of stress?  No matter what we choose to believe if we put negativity into the world that's just what we seem to get in return, now we can create all kinds of reasons as to why this happens or we can live peaceably and spiritually through the directions left for us by our ancestors.  Those of us who refuse to listen to the past will never change the negativity they are currently in, and they may tell themselves and others that they need no help but no man is an island and everyone needs a hand from time to time."

when you start your argument with such a ridiculous sentence it is hard for me to be open minded about the rest. Why dont you look up the definition of a fact since you seem to have mistaken faith and fact. What are you even saying? this is pseudo-intellectual mumbo jumbo. The world returns nothing to you, you can be negative and still reap positives and vice versa. You can be the best person in the world and die of cancer. I agree everyone needs help, but im (i'm) not weak minded, your inadequecy is not evidence of god. I ask for help from sources that can offer help, not a god who is mute. Where is he when children in haiti are asking for help,food,clean water. When they are dying by the millions. Maybe they didnt ask right? you would think god in his omnipotence would help hey? Save the apologetic non-sense for the illogical. One hand helping can do more then a thousand clasped in prayer.

[laurion]

you don't think the bible says the earth is fixed and the sun moves around it and you're the one laughing?

who do you think the apologist is here?

No I'm laughing that in response to you own question of "doesn't the bible suggest that the earth is fixed and the sun moves around it." your answer was Galileo.

[big L dawg]

No I'm laughing that in response to you own question of "doesn't the bible suggest that the earth is fixed and the sun moves around it." your answer was Galileo.

anyone that believes the absurd shit in the bible shouldn't be laughing at anyone.

[Necrosis]

LOL at me quoting myself after melting over spelling like a tart.

[laurion]

sorry i will spellcheck my posts like other meatbags on this forum. I will never forget where insted of were, i will use you're insted of your. Perhaps(look at the capital) if i wasn't so worried about grammar like you i could form cogent arguments.


"The fact is that if you live your life with a little humility toward things you are incapable of knowing life will reward you.  Even if you choose not to believe in a higher power would you agree that when you do positive things your life will be more positive and less full of stress?  No matter what we choose to believe if we put negativity into the world that's just what we seem to get in return, now we can create all kinds of reasons as to why this happens or we can live peaceably and spiritually through the directions left for us by our ancestors.  Those of us who refuse to listen to the past will never change the negativity they are currently in, and they may tell themselves and others that they need no help but no man is an island and everyone needs a hand from time to time."

when you start your sentence with such a ridiculous sentence it is hard for me to be open minded about the rest. 1. Why dont you look up the definition of a fact since you seem to have mistaken faith and fact. What are you even saying? this is pseudo-intellectual mumbo jumbo. The world returns nothing to you, you can be negative and still reap positives and vice versa. You can be the best person in the world and die of cancer. I agree everyone needs help, but im (i'm) not weak minded, your inadequecy is not evidence of god. I ask for help from sources that can offer help, not a god who is mute. Where is he when children in haiti are asking for help,food,clean water. When they are dying by the millions. Maybe they didnt ask right? you would think god in his omnipotence would help hey? Save the apologetic non-sense for the illogical. 2. One hand helping can do more then a thousand clasped in prayer.

1. I do believe it to be fact that the more positive I behave the better and less stressfull my life will be.  

2. So very true, but doesn't the modern church send mission trips to these areas to help these people?  If you are aware of this fact then ask yourself what you alone have done and I believe you will see why people with deep spiritualism who join together and do these things deserve our appreciation even if you disagree with their beliefs.

[Straw Man]

No I'm laughing that in response to you own question of "doesn't the bible suggest that the earth is fixed and the sun moves around it." your answer was Galileo.

The leaders of the Catholic church at the time of Galileo clearly believed it to be true.  

Do you you dispute that fact?

did you even bother to read the result of your random google search?

the entire link can't be boiled down to this sentence:  Thus, whether miraculous or not, to say that these verses teach that the Earth continues to stand still, and that the Earth is the center of the Universe, is both a gross misinterpretation and a misapplication of the verse.

Whoops - just a simple mistake of reading the words and drawing the wrong conclusion and then of course misapplying that mistake. It could happen to anyone really.

Those silly cardinals and the pope just make the mistake of misinterpreting their own book.

how convenient