Mass Cycle

[scorp1979]

Hi Guys,

I've done 2 cycles b4 both were cutting cycles. Now Im looking to regain my lost mass. Here's a Cycle I found. I was looking for the best advice you guys can give. Such as expected side effects for my research the most I can tell would be h20 retention. Also specific caloric in take to maximize muscle without regain the fat back.

Week / Test.E / Metanabol / Winstrol :
1) 500mg/week 20mg/day 20mg/day
2) 500mg/week 20mg/day 20mg/day
3) 500mg/week 20mg/day 20mg/day
4) 500mg/week 20mg/day 20mg/day
5) 500mg/week -------------- 20mg/day
6) 500mg/week -------------- 20mg/day
7) 500mg/week -------------- 20mg/day
500mg/week
9) 500mg/week
 
Post Cycle Therapy
10) 100mg/day Clomid and 20mg/day Nolvadex
11) 50mg/day Clomid and 20mg/day Nolvadex

Thx guys.

[Arnold jr]

First off, I'd drop the "metanbol" simply because I'm anti pro-hormones. if you are wanting an oral to run at the front end, you could use dbol, tbol, or anavar...just pick one. Also, run the winny at the end after you run the other oral if you decide to use the other oral. Last off, PCT should start 2wks after your last injection of test...not immediately like you have it here.

As for calories, hard to say for sure, we don't know too much about you. But for starters, just keep the protein high, along with moderate fat intake and moderate carbs from clean sources.

[SWOLETRAIN]

I agree with AJ about the prohormone. I would also advise you to run the whole cycle 12-16wks and not 10. IMO this is what  a "lean bulker" should look like. The whole way thru tbol to week 6-8
testE/ EQ/TBOL/
500  400   40
 Utilizing Turinabol instead of dbol to minimize bloat and get a great kickstart to the whole cycle. Eq instead of the winny, Lean hard gains & great for appetite. If your really scared of the bloat use an AI like adex to help the whole way. Diet should be clean to an extent. Your gonna have to eat big to get big. Don't be afraid to dirty it up here and there; your bulking. Heres the catch. DO CARDIO!  Cardio done here and there depending on your body type will defiantly help keep fat down and the metabolism rolling. JMO

[Luv2Hurt]

PCT should start 2wks after your last injection of test...not immediately like you have it here.

I can not understand the reason to wait to start PCT?  Im sure you are thinking "well the compounds will take a couple weeks to clear the system."  And I will agree with that, but really taking the nolva or clomid early at the end there is not going to do any harm.  In fact IMO opinion it will help your recovery, cause estrogen (E) is one of the problems when you attempt to recover.  The propounderance of E over Test (T) brings on all those not so fun post cycle issues.  So getting E under control early and building up the Tamoxifin in your blood will probally help, I sure cant see how it would hurt.

Just make sure to run a 5-6 week PCT

[trab]

I can not understand the reason to wait to start PCT?  Im sure you are thinking "well the compounds will take a couple weeks to clear the system."  And I will agree with that, but really taking the nolva or clomid early at the end there is not going to do any harm.  In fact IMO opinion it will help your recovery, cause estrogen (E) is one of the problems when you attempt to recover.  The propounderance of E over Test (T) brings on all those not so fun post cycle issues.  So getting E under control early and building up the Tamoxifin in your blood will probally help, I sure cant see how it would hurt.

Just make sure to run a 5-6 week PCT

Ive been wondering about that from the get go here, but  didnt want to make waves.
I PM'd AJ and it's a misscommunication, we have much knowledge from experienc that we take for granted. It would be good to detail this a little clearer in the sticky for Newbies. (re: PCT)

W/ TE I Personaly hit some sort of PCT measures at day 5 after last shot which  I personaly would have taperd down to aprox 200 e5th day.  W/ Sus, day 17 or so. Day 21 is D-Day. 
enanthate is not decanoate 1/2 life.

[delta9mda]

Ive been wondering about that from the get go here, but  didnt want to make waves.
I PM'd AJ and it's a misscommunication, we have much knowledge from experienc that we take for granted. It would be good to detail this a little clearer in the sticky for Newbies. (re: PCT)

W/ TE I Personaly hit some sort of PCT measures at day 5 after last shot which  I personaly would have taperd down to aprox 200 e5th day.  W/ Sus, day 17 or so. Day 21 is D-Day. 
enanthate is not decanoate 1/2 life.

tapering dont do anything

[4thAD]

Im on .5mg ed adex, and I will run that until pct so there's no reason for me to run nolvadex early.

[trab]

tapering dont do anything

Tried it? It brings a normal Total testo blood pannel level back WEEKS  faster.
DO it 4-5 times, pull blood work and compare, I have. I tapper.
Squeezes more out of the cycle to, cost effective.

[Luv2Hurt]

Ive been wondering about that from the get go here, but  didnt want to make waves.
I PM'd AJ and it's a misscommunication, we have much knowledge from experienc that we take for granted. It would be good to detail this a little clearer in the sticky for Newbies. (re: PCT)

W/ TE I Personaly hit some sort of PCT measures at day 5 after last shot which  I personaly would have taperd down to aprox 200 e5th day.  W/ Sus, day 17 or so. Day 21 is D-Day. 
enanthate is not decanoate 1/2 life.

Its not that AJ's advice was wrong or anything as I think its fine, many people do it that way.  But I just think starting it early is a good idea.  And tamoxifen is pretty side affect free in my experiance and tollerated well by most.  In fact you could take that stuff your whole cycle and not have any problems, its a nice safety net.  although it has been reported to suppress IGF-1 production some.

[Arnold jr]

Its not that AJ's advice was wrong or anything as I think its fine, many people do it that way.  But I just think starting it early is a good idea.  And tamoxifen is pretty side affect free in my experiance and tollerated well by most.  In fact you could take that stuff your whole cycle and not have any problems, its a nice safety net.  although it has been reported to suppress IGF-1 production some.

You're right, starting it early won't hurt anything, it just seems needless IMO. Basically there are better ways to do things. In the case of this cycle, with everything the guy had layed out, I made my recommendation based on that...this is not the exact way I'd do it...anyone can search this entire board and find exactly how I'd do it, which would include hcg as part of the whole deal...again, it was based on what he "scorp1979" layed out.

Trab, if you have it you still have it you can post the PM I sent you in regards to this...just paste it here...I didn't save my comments.

Also, to add to what I said to trab, a lot of guys are only going to use 2-3 wks worth of PCT products, if that's what they are going to do, why not use them when it will be the most beneficial, which would be after a little time has passed IMO. Sure, you could buy more stuff...but many want to save the extra $4 

[trab]

Arnold jr
Getbig IV

Posts: 2601


Getbig!


   Re: (No subject)
« Sent to: trab on: June 26, 2007, 08:25:14 PM »
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I understand what you're saying and you make some good points, but here has always been my thinking. We know that test-e has a half life of around 10.5days, so in knowing that, it's going to be a littel while before it's out of your system and to where nolva and clomid will do any good. Of course, then you are left with that 2wk period of declining test, and nothing else. For this reason I'm an advocate of HCG for 10-14 days before nolva and clomid...usually around 1wk after last test injection, but if one started sooner it would not hurt anything IMO.

Now if a guy doesn't use hcg as part of this plan will it hurt him? Most likely not, not if the cycle was relatively low in amounts like the one we're talking about...but with a more advanced cycle, it would be wise to include it, otherwise the crash would be much much harsher.

Now I've done it both ways, and personally speaking I've never had a performance glitch doing it this way, even without the HCG...however, ever since I've been using heavier cycles I've always used HCG. The hardest time for me is always after PCT...usually the 3 or 4 wks following PCT. After that things seem to start to normalize.

[Rimbaud]

Time for my comments. I don't like the cycle but that's just my opinion. I think he should add at least three more weeks to the cycle & possibly seven more weeks. I would also drop the prohormone & replace it with tbol or dbol. I would also just drop the winny. I would also add some EQ into the mix. As for the tapering - I've never done it but if it works for some that's great. I'm actually thinking about trying it next time around but we'll see. As for when to start your PCT - two weeks is generally a safe bet with a long ester but if you start it early it won't hurt. I usually start my PCT ten days later.

Here's my revisions on the cycle:
Weeks 1-16 500mg Test E EW
Weeks 1-16 0.5mg Adex EOD (to minimize sides)
Weeks 1-16 300mg EQ
Weeks 1-8 50mg Tbol ED
Weeks 17-20 PCT (Nolva or Clomid)

[Arnold jr]

why would he want to wait 2 weeks to take clomid and nova , why is it a bad idea to take it right away or evan before he stops taking the test ?

I'm not saying it's a bad idea, just not the most prudent IMO. We've actually had several discusions about this, this wk here on this board. Check out some of the more recent threads and you'll find all my replies as well as others...call me lazy, but I simply don't want to type all that out again.