Author Topic: 7 Major Lies Obama told in his speech.  (Read 911 times)

Soul Crusher

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7 Major Lies Obama told in his speech.
« on: September 13, 2009, 06:46:16 AM »
September 13, 2009
Obama's Dissolving Credibility
By Robert Tracinski


We had our warning during the campaign, we really did.

Remember Barack Obama's famous speech on race, back in March of 2008? Obama had spent 20 years listening to the sermons of Jeremiah Wright, full of venomous anti-Americanism and attacks on "white America." Yet when the reverend's rants were revealed to the public, Obama tried to convince us that he just happened to be missing from the pews on any well-documented Sunday, and that the Jeremiah Wright we saw and heard was not the Jeremiah Wright he knew.

It was a giant, implausible lie. Yet the speech was smoothly delivered and well-turned, perfectly balanced to seem to empathize both with the grievances of blacks and with the concerns of whites. So most people seemed to believe it.

This is what Obama's supposed gift for rhetoric amounts to: the ability to tell a smoothly polished bald-faced lie.

And that was the whole essence of Obama's big health-care speech. It was a pack of lies from beginning to end, and if we're going to finally see through this flim-flam artist once and for all-as more and more people are beginning to do-then we had better identify them one at a time.

I'll skip the lies by omission-his only mention of town hall meetings, for example, was of people who "shared their stories with us" because they are "counting on us to succeed" in passing a health-care bill. Yeah, that's what happened at town hall meetings last month!

And I'll skip the non-health-care lies, like Obama's claim that he merely inherited giant deficits-when his first big legislative campaign was for three quarters of a trillion dollars in new deficit spending. Or his claim that the economic crisis was brought back from the brink "thanks to the bold and decisive action we have taken since January." (Does anybody remember that day in February when the Dow dropped 300 points because Obama's Treasury Secretary gave a speech in which he failed to outline any details of his latest plan? Bold and decisive indeed.) Or Obama's claim that Ted Kennedy was not an advocate of big government.

For now, let's just stick to the speech's seven big lies.

1) Obama's proposal is just minor, incremental tinkering.

The key to Obama's speeches is that he counts on you not to be listening carefully and not to compare what he says from one moment to the next. So while he vows to be the "final" president to reform health-care-indicating that his approach is a sweeping, once-and-for-all overhaul, he then goes on to tell you that everyone else is a radical, but he's just in favor of cautious, incremental tinkering.

There are those on the left who believe that the only way to fix the system is through a single-payer system like Canada's, where we would severely restrict the private insurance market and have the government provide coverage for everyone. On the right, there are those who argue that we should end the employer-based system and leave individuals to buy health insurance on their own.

I have to say that there are arguments to be made for both approaches. But either one would represent a radical shift that would disrupt the health care most people currently have. Since health care represents one-sixth of our economy, I believe it makes more sense to build on what works and fix what doesn't, rather than try to build an entirely new system from scratch. And that is precisely what those of you in Congress have tried to do over the past several months.

Does it take a thousand pages of legislation to not "disrupt one-sixth of our economy"? The reality is that the proposals he advocates would create a vast new bureaucracy from scratch, with sweeping powers to regulate private health-insurance plans-eventually including employer-provided plans-and forcing individual health-insurance plans to be offered on a government-controlled "exchange." It is a plan for the comprehensive restructuring of the health-insurance industry-but Obama wants you to think that he's not really doing anything. Which makes you realize that he doesn't want to you notice or think too hard about what he is doing.

2) Obama's plan is bipartisan.

This is another attempt to deflect scrutiny by claiming that everything he is proposing is safe, bland, anodyne. Thus, his plan "incorporates ideas from many of the people in this room tonight-Democrats and Republicans." Which explains why Obama has so few Republican votes that his allies in Congress are now talking about ramming the bill through, in a dubious parliamentary maneuver, on Democratic votes alone.

Obama's one token concession to Republicans gives you a flavor for his actual "bipartisanship." Citing Republican arguments that curbing excessive medical malpractice awards would help reduce "defensive medicine," i.e., extra tests ordered to avoid a lawsuit, the president offered to authorize "demonstration projects in individual states to test these issues"-an ineffectual, symbolic measure the Bush administration tinkered with because it couldn't get Congress to pass real tort reform.

3) You can keep your existing insurance.

This is the central claim of Obama's speech: "First, if you are among the hundreds of millions of Americans who already have health insurance through your job, Medicare, Medicaid, or the VA, nothing in this plan will require you or your employer to change the coverage or the doctor you have." Notice that this is already a minor change from his previous statements on this issue, in which he made the same assurance for all "private health insurance plans." The change acknowledges the fact that individual plans would be swept into the government "exchange."

But notice that, while claiming he won't change your existing coverage, Obama goes on to detail a whole set of changes to that coverage that will be mandated by government:

What this plan will do is to make the insurance you have work better for you. Under this plan, it will be against the law for insurance companies to deny you coverage because of a pre-existing condition.... They will no longer be able to place some arbitrary cap on the amount of coverage you can receive in a given year or a lifetime. We will place a limit on how much you can be charged for out-of-pocket expenses.... And insurance companies will be required to cover, with no extra charge, routine checkups and preventive care.

And notice what each of these regulations would do: it would increase costs for private health-insurance companies. They would have to pay more to cover people with pre-existing conditions; more for people who go over their yearly or lifetime caps, more to make up for the limits on your out-of-pocket expenses, and more for routine checkups. Oh yes, and later on, Obama explains that his bill will be paid for by increased taxes on drug companies and insurance companies.

There is no way to increase all of these costs for the insurers without causing a corresponding increase in health-insurance premiums.

So you can keep your health-insurance-except that its cost will be driven up by all of the regulations imposed by Obama's bill. This is a well-documented phenomenon. In fact, the states in which health-insurance is most expensive-places like New York-are those which have the greatest number of "mandates" dictating benefits that insurers have to provide.

That's why most of us grasp that the "public option" is not really an option, in the long run. Obama's bill is designed to drive up the costs of private insurance, making it even more unaffordable-and thereby herding all of us into a government-managed insurance plan as the only remaining alternative.

And that brings us to the next implausibility in the speech.

4) The "public option" will not be subsidized by government.

President Obama would have us believe that a government-run insurance company would be less expensive than private insurance because it avoids "some of the overhead that gets eaten up at private companies by profits, excessive administrative costs, and executive salaries." Does anyone actually believe this? Obama himself acknowledges that the "public option" leads to less efficiency when it comes to delivering mail. Why should we believe the government is suddenly going to become a model of efficiency in the health-insurance market?

It is obvious what is actually going to happen. Since the whole purpose of the "public option" is to provide a cheaper competitor against private insurance, the government will do whatever is required to ensure that this is the case-including subsidizing the public option.

After all, weren't Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac supposed to be self-supporting enterprises, too? Why should "affordable health-care" end up any differently than "affordable housing"?

5) The health-care bill will pay for itself with cost savings.

The president continues to make a series of false claims about the "savings" that will supposedly come from all of the regulations he is imposing. Thus, for example, it is clear that requiring health-insurance companies to pay for "routine checkups and preventive care, like mammograms and colonoscopies" will increase spending-but Obama claims that this will "save money" because we'll be "catching diseases like breast cancer and colon cancer before they get worse."

This is a demonstrated falsehood. Congressional Budget Director Doug Elmendorf makes this bluntly clear: "Researchers who have examined the effects of preventive care generally find that the added costs of widespread use of preventive services tend to exceed the savings from averted illness."

A related lie: "we've estimated that most of this plan can be paid for by finding savings within the existing health care system-a system that is currently full of waste and abuse," another claim that's been debunked by the CBO.

The far more plausible way to cut Medicare spending is to begin rationing or denying care. And that leads us to Obama's next big lie.

6) There are no death panels.

Obama attacks the "bogus claims spread by those whose only agenda is to kill reform at any cost. The best example is the claim, made not just by radio and cable talk show hosts, but prominent politicians, that we plan to set up panels of bureaucrats with the power to kill off senior citizens. Such a charge would be laughable if it weren't so cynical and irresponsible. It is a lie, plain and simple."

But what is Obama's most plausible recommendation for cutting Medicare spending? "[A]n independent commission of doctors and medical experts charged with identifying more waste in the years ahead." How will they identify waste? By deciding which procedures are "cost effective" and should be covered by Medicare-and which procedures are "wasteful" and should not be covered.

Britain's National Health Service already has such a commission, established on precisely the same rationale. They call it the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence, known by the Orwellian acronym NICE. It is becoming notorious for rules that deny care to older patients because they don't have enough "quality adjusted life years" left to justify the cost of their treatment.

If you read the British newspapers-and if you're concerned about what greater government control of medicine might look like, you should-then you might have caught the latest development: a letter by a group of distinguished British doctors complaining that the Liverpool Care Pathway, a NICE-endorsed system for determining the care given to severely ill patients, is causing doctors to abandon care for patients who still have a chance of recovery.

If that's not a "death panel," I don't know what is. Yet it is precisely the system Obama advocates to cut costs under his plan.

7) Obama doesn't want a government takeover of medicine.

Here's a tip: when Barack Obama says, "So let me set the record straight," he is about to lie to you about his past. Thus, in rebutting the claim that he wants a "government takeover" of medicine, he assures us that "My guiding principle is, and always has been, that consumers do better when there is choice and competition." So how is it that he was recorded only six years ago describing himself as an advocate of a Canadian style "single payer" system-the very opposite of "choice and competition"?

Hasn't the overall theme of Obama's administration-from the auto bailouts to cap-and-trade-been the relentless expansion of government power at the expense of individual freedom?

During the Jeremiah Wright affair, the American people gave Obama the benefit of the doubt because they couldn't bring themselves to believe that such a respectable, well-spoken man could be such a brazen liar-and because they liked the inspirational, post-racial illusion he presented. They wanted to believe, and that's the kind of audience a sharp operator like him needs.

But now the spell is broken, his audiences are beginning to ask the tough questions-and Obama's credibility will continue to dissolve as his lies are exposed.

Robert Tracinski writes daily commentary at TIADaily.com. He is the editor of The Intellectual Activist and TIADaily.com.

________________________ ______________

I want just one person try to prove this article wrong on the facts. 

IFBBwannaB

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Re: 7 Major Lies Obama told in his speech.
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2009, 06:51:45 AM »
2 options.

1.The Dem Squad will not show up in this thread...as usual.

2.They will show up and blabber BS that contradicts their own previous statements just to get in line with the current version of the Obamatron.

Soul Crusher

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Re: 7 Major Lies Obama told in his speech.
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2009, 06:57:23 AM »
So you can keep your health-insurance-except that its cost will be driven up by all of the regulations imposed by Obama's bill. This is a well-documented phenomenon. In fact, the states in which health-insurance is most expensive-places like New York-are those which have the greatest number of "mandates" dictating benefits that insurers have to provide.

________________________ ________________________ ______-

This is what most of the idiots on this board dont get, it is the govt who drives the cost of insurance via regulation and mandate. 

Straw Man

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Re: 7 Major Lies Obama told in his speech.
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2009, 07:14:50 AM »
333

Does that article contain even  contain one actual complete quote from the speech?

Why don't you ever post a link when you copy and paste an article

Straw Man

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Re: 7 Major Lies Obama told in his speech.
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2009, 07:19:47 AM »
So you can keep your health-insurance-except that its cost will be driven up by all of the regulations imposed by Obama's bill. This is a well-documented phenomenon. In fact, the states in which health-insurance is most expensive-places like New York-are those which have the greatest number of "mandates" dictating benefits that insurers have to provide.

________________________ ________________________ ______-

This is what most of the idiots on this board dont get, it is the govt who drives the cost of insurance via regulation and mandate. 

so you're predicting (again let's not forget you're simply making a prediction about the future and not stating a fact) that health care reform legislation (what you call "Obama's Bill) will drive up health care costs.   How do you know it won't drive them down instead (as has been suggested by Obama as one of the results of the various bills being looked at).   If a private company wants to retain your business wouldn't it make more sense that they would have to lower their fees in order to remain competitive with competing plans or provide better service at the same fee structure in order to retain your business?

Can you show me any proof of your statement above:

Quote
In fact, the states in which health-insurance is most expensive-places like New York-are those which have the greatest number of "mandates" dictating benefits that insurers have to provide.

Soul Crusher

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Re: 7 Major Lies Obama told in his speech.
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2009, 07:21:52 AM »
Give me a break straw - we all watched that speech and the day after I posted this very same thing to you, although not in such detail. 

Stop playing games and deal with reality, that speech and this plan is a pack of lies.

Soul Crusher

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Re: 7 Major Lies Obama told in his speech.
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2009, 07:24:32 AM »
Straw its common freaking sense.  Geez - how blind are you????

This whole plan is geared to get everyone dumped onto the public system by making the cost of private insaurance so high that no one can afford it. 

They will do that by mandating all sorts of nonsense like Obama said in his speech.  Did you not even listen to what he was saying or were you in one of Obama's dazes of hypnosis where reason, logic, common sense, history, and facts all go by the wayside?

Straw Man

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Re: 7 Major Lies Obama told in his speech.
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2009, 07:28:40 AM »
Straw its common freaking sense.  Geez - how blind are you????

This whole plan is geared to get everyone dumped onto the public system by making the cost of private insaurance so high that no one can afford it. 

They will do that by mandating all sorts of nonsense like Obama said in his speech.  Did you not even listen to what he was saying or were you in one of Obama's dazes of hypnosis where reason, logic, common sense, history, and facts all go by the wayside?

Of course I listened to what he was saying, we're you?

I imagine you watching and flying into a rage every 10 seconds and screaming at the tv and throwing shit around your tiny condo

show me one quote from Obama's speech in that article and we'll disucss it

Soul Crusher

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Re: 7 Major Lies Obama told in his speech.
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2009, 07:41:30 AM »
Of course I listened to what he was saying, we're you?

I imagine you watching and flying into a rage every 10 seconds and screaming at the tv and throwing shit around your tiny condo

show me one quote from Obama's speech in that article and we'll disucss it

Straw - forget it - you want to play word games and /i am simply not going to waste time with your nonsense. 

I posted the same thing the day after the speech and you couldnt refute those statements either. 

I was mad at the speech because i knew the whole thing was nothing but obvious and blatant lies meant to decieve and fool people like yourself who like to play dumb to reality and common sense. 

Straw Man

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Re: 7 Major Lies Obama told in his speech.
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2009, 07:52:10 AM »
Straw - forget it - you want to play word games and /i am simply not going to waste time with your nonsense. 

I posted the same thing the day after the speech and you couldnt refute those statements either. 

I was mad at the speech because i knew the whole thing was nothing but obvious and blatant lies meant to decieve and fool people like yourself who like to play dumb to reality and common sense. 

Go back up to the article you posted and show me one full quote from Obama and we'll discuss it.

how about posting links to the articles you cut and paste.

let's see where you're getting your info

Soul Crusher

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Re: 7 Major Lies Obama told in his speech.
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2009, 07:56:58 AM »
Go back up to the article you posted and show me one full quote from Obama and we'll discuss it.

how about posting links to the articles you cut and paste.

let's see where you're getting your info

Straw he said all of these things and everyone knows it.  WTF is wrong with you bro?  Seriously, do you play stupid for fun? 

We know 240 does it to get under peoples skin, but I dont think you do it on purpose. 



Straw Man

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Re: 7 Major Lies Obama told in his speech.
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2009, 08:03:43 AM »
Straw he said all of these things and everyone knows it.  WTF is wrong with you bro?  Seriously, do you play stupid for fun? 

We know 240 does it to get under peoples skin, but I dont think you do it on purpose. 

333 - you copied an article from somewhere that claims to have "7 major lies told in his speech"

all I'm asking is that you show me one direct quote from Obama's speech in that article and then we can discuss whether it's actually a lie or not

how hard is that?

Soul Crusher

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Re: 7 Major Lies Obama told in his speech.
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2009, 08:08:45 AM »
FROM THE AP - ASSOCIATED PRESS _
________________________ ________________

FACT CHECK: Obama uses iffy math on deficit pledge
By CALVIN WOODWARD and ERICA WERNER (AP) – 3 days ago

WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama used only-in-Washington accounting Wednesday when he promised to overhaul the nation's health care system without adding "one dime" to the deficit. By conventional arithmetic, Democratic plans would drive up the deficit by billions of dollars.

The president's speech to Congress contained a variety of oversimplifications and omissions in laying out what he wants to do about health insurance.

A look at some of Obama's claims and how they square with the facts or the fuller story:

___

OBAMA: "I will not sign a plan that adds one dime to our deficits either now or in the future. Period."

THE FACTS: Though there's no final plan yet, the White House and congressional Democrats already have shown they're ready to skirt the no-new-deficits pledge.

House Democrats offered a bill that the Congressional Budget Office said would add $220 billion to the deficit over 10 years. But Democrats and Obama administration officials claimed the bill actually was deficit-neutral. They said they simply didn't have to count $245 billion of it — the cost of adjusting Medicare reimbursement rates so physicians don't face big annual pay cuts.

Their reasoning was that they already had decided to exempt this "doc fix" from congressional rules that require new programs to be paid for. In other words, it doesn't have to be paid for because they decided it doesn't have to be paid for.

The administration also said that since Obama already had included the doctor payment in his 10-year budget proposal, it didn't have to be counted again.

That aside, the long-term prognosis for costs of the health care legislation has not been good.

CBO Director Douglas Elmendorf had this to say in July: "We do not see the sort of fundamental changes that would be necessary to reduce the trajectory of federal health spending by a significant amount."

___

OBAMA: "Nothing in this plan will require you or your employer to change the coverage or the doctor you have."

THE FACTS: That's correct, as far as it goes. But neither can the plan guarantee that people can keep their current coverage. Employers sponsor coverage for most families, and they'd be free to change their health plans in ways that workers may not like, or drop insurance altogether. The Congressional Budget Office analyzed the health care bill written by House Democrats and said that by 2016 some 3 million people who now have employer-based care would lose it because their employers would decide to stop offering it.

In the past Obama repeatedly said, "If you like your health care plan, you'll be able to keep your health care plan, period." Now he's stopping short of that unconditional guarantee by saying nothing in the plan "requires" any change.

___

OBAMA: "The reforms I'm proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally." One congressman, South Carolina Republican Joe Wilson, shouted "You lie!" from his seat in the House chamber when Obama made this assertion. Wilson later apologized.

THE FACTS: The facts back up Obama. The House version of the health care bill explicitly prohibits spending any federal money to help illegal immigrants get health care coverage. Illegal immigrants could buy private health insurance, as many do now, but wouldn't get tax subsidies to help them. Still, Republicans say there are not sufficient citizenship verification requirements to ensure illegal immigrants are excluded from benefits they are not due.

___

OBAMA: "Don't pay attention to those scary stories about how your benefits will be cut. ... That will never happen on my watch. I will protect Medicare."

THE FACTS: Obama and congressional Democrats want to pay for their health care plans in part by reducing Medicare payments to providers by more than $500 billion over 10 years. The cuts would largely hit hospitals and Medicare Advantage, the part of the Medicare program operated through private insurance companies.

Although wasteful spending in Medicare is widely acknowledged, many experts believe some seniors almost certainly would see reduced benefits from the cuts. That's particularly true for the 25 percent of Medicare users covered through Medicare Advantage.

Supporters contend that providers could absorb the cuts by improving how they operate and wouldn't have to reduce benefits or pass along costs. But there's certainly no guarantee they wouldn't.

___

OBAMA: Requiring insurance companies to cover preventive care like mammograms and colonoscopies "makes sense, it saves money, and it saves lives."

THE FACTS: Studies have shown that much preventive care — particularly tests like the ones Obama mentions — actually costs money instead of saving it. That's because detecting acute diseases like breast cancer in their early stages involves testing many people who would never end up developing the disease. The costs of a large number of tests, even if they're relatively cheap, will outweigh the costs of caring for the minority of people who would have ended up getting sick without the testing.

The Congressional Budget Office wrote in August: "The evidence suggests that for most preventive services, expanded utilization leads to higher, not lower, medical spending overall."

That doesn't mean preventive care doesn't make sense or save lives. It just doesn't save money.

___

OBAMA: "If you lose your job or change your job, you will be able to get coverage. If you strike out on your own and start a small business, you will be able to get coverage."

THE FACTS: It's not just a matter of being able to get coverage. Most people would have to get coverage under the law, if his plan is adopted.

In his speech, Obama endorsed mandatory coverage for individuals, an approach he did not embrace as a candidate.

He proposed during the campaign — as he does now — that larger businesses be required to offer insurance to workers or else pay into a fund. But he rejected the idea of requiring individuals to obtain insurance. He said people would get insurance without being forced to do so by the law, if coverage were made affordable. And he repeatedly criticized his Democratic primary rival, Hillary Rodham Clinton, for proposing to mandate coverage.

"To force people to get health insurance, you've got to have a very harsh penalty," he said in a February 2008 debate.

Now, he says, "individuals will be required to carry basic health insurance — just as most states require you to carry auto insurance."

He proposes a hardship waiver, exempting from the requirement those who cannot afford coverage despite increased federal aid.

___

OBAMA: "There are now more than 30 million American citizens who cannot get coverage."

THE FACTS: Obama time and again has referred to the number of uninsured as 46 million, a figure based on year-old Census data. The new number is based on an analysis by the Kaiser Commission on Medicaid and the Uninsured, which concluded that about two-thirds of Americans without insurance are poor or near poor. "These individuals are less likely to be offered employer-sponsored coverage or to be able to afford to purchase their own coverage," the report said. By using the new figure, Obama avoids criticism that he is including individuals, particularly healthy young people, who choose not to obtain health insurance.

Associated Press writer Jim Kuhnhenn contributed to this report.

Copyright © 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.

Straw Man

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Re: 7 Major Lies Obama told in his speech.
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2009, 08:16:29 AM »
So I guess you're telling me you can't locate one quote from Obama's speech in that article either

Soul Crusher

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Re: 7 Major Lies Obama told in his speech.
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2009, 10:01:39 AM »
So I guess you're telling me you can't locate one quote from Obama's speech in that article either

Read the AP article fool. 

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Re: 7 Major Lies Obama told in his speech.
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2009, 10:31:35 AM »

Soul Crusher

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Re: 7 Major Lies Obama told in his speech.
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2009, 11:27:39 AM »

Straw Man

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Re: 7 Major Lies Obama told in his speech.
« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2009, 01:15:56 PM »
Read the AP article fool.  

I read it dumbass.....did you?

It's hardly a blanket condemnation of Obama's claims.   The article actually states that most are true in part and, more importantly, all of these things are projections about the future so you can't call them lies because neither you nor I can predict the future.

This one should be particularly interesting to the teabaggers on GB.com:

Quote
OBAMA: "The reforms I'm proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally." One congressman, South Carolina Republican Joe Wilson, shouted "You lie!" from his seat in the House chamber when Obama made this assertion. Wilson later apologized.

THE FACTS: The facts back up Obama. The House version of the health care bill explicitly prohibits spending any federal money to help illegal immigrants get health care coverage. Illegal immigrants could buy private health insurance, as many do now, but wouldn't get tax subsidies to help them. Still, Republicans say there are not sufficient citizenship verification requirements to ensure illegal immigrants are excluded from benefits they are not due.

MM2K

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Re: 7 Major Lies Obama told in his speech.
« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2009, 06:35:01 PM »
Quote
How do you know it won't drive them down instead


When has anything government related ever driven down costs? The reason healtcare costs are higher than the should be is that government interference has curbed competition. How will MORE government interference drive down costs? I dont understand why you guys believe this stuff. Great article by the way 333386.
Jan. Jobs: 36,000!!

Straw Man

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Re: 7 Major Lies Obama told in his speech.
« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2009, 07:03:27 PM »


When has anything government related ever driven down costs? The reason healtcare costs are higher than the should be is that government interference has curbed competition. How will MORE government interference drive down costs? I dont understand why you guys believe this stuff. Great article by the way 333386.

private military contractors cost 10x what we pay our highest trained troops.

private health insurance has takes out ~ 30% in admin costs and profits while Medicare supposedly has admin costs of ~ 3%.

I think there is plenty of room for savings while actually making sure more people get healthcare.


MM2K

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Re: 7 Major Lies Obama told in his speech.
« Reply #20 on: September 13, 2009, 07:19:04 PM »
Quote
private health insurance has takes out ~ 30% in admin costs and profits while Medicare supposedly has admin costs of ~ 3%.

On a per person basis private insurers have lower admin. costs. Medicare's ratio of the costs of doing business versus thier admin. costs is higher becuase they serve more people. The cost of care is higher with older people, so they have far more central costs of doing business versus overhead.
Jan. Jobs: 36,000!!

Straw Man

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Re: 7 Major Lies Obama told in his speech.
« Reply #21 on: September 13, 2009, 07:43:09 PM »
On a per person basis private insurers have lower admin. costs. Medicare's ratio of the costs of doing business versus thier admin. costs is higher becuase they serve more people. The cost of care is higher with older people, so they have far more central costs of doing business versus overhead.

I wouldn't be suprised in private insurers have a lower per person costs.  They make money by not paying for health care.  They reject anyone they can who has a high probability of actually needng health care and there are plenty of people who pay insurance premiums yet wind up paying for most of their annual health care costs out of pocket due to high deductibles.   

which one has has the lower overall cost?


Hedgehog

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Re: 7 Major Lies Obama told in his speech.
« Reply #22 on: September 14, 2009, 02:38:58 AM »
universal health care will improve the overall health of Americans.
why would people on a BB board oppose something like that?
they have a very good grasp of how important good health is for everyday performance.
it's not a right or left issue imo.
greater health means greater ability to work.
the big issue should be how the universal health care should be implemented.
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Soul Crusher

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Re: 7 Major Lies Obama told in his speech.
« Reply #23 on: September 14, 2009, 04:30:34 AM »
universal health care will improve the overall health of Americans.
why would people on a BB board oppose something like that?
they have a very good grasp of how important good health is for everyday performance.
it's not a right or left issue imo.
greater health means greater ability to work.
the big issue should be how the universal health care should be implemented.

Hedge - our entire society is geared up in such a way that this is only wishful thinking on your part. 

Whethers it the cost of medical school, the tort system, etc, our economy and society are just not conducive to that. 

Hedgehog

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Re: 7 Major Lies Obama told in his speech.
« Reply #24 on: September 14, 2009, 06:47:03 AM »
Hedge - our entire society is geared up in such a way that this is only wishful thinking on your part. 

Whethers it the cost of medical school, the tort system, etc, our economy and society are just not conducive to that. 
the whole lawsuit system needs to go.
can't have a system where a doctor risks getting ruined. that's why so many are overmedicated.
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