Author Topic: Learning Thread.....*Wicca*  (Read 15616 times)

Butterbean

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Learning Thread.....*Wicca*
« on: May 12, 2006, 09:52:32 PM »
Well, it seems that Bast175 now says that he never really was a Scientologist, but with links and info posted on the thread (thanks to all who contributed), I think some of us learned more about Scientology than we knew previously.

Knowing the possibility of someone claiming affiliation and knowledge of the next belief system could be totally bogus but that we could still learn things about it if we dedicated a learning thread to it, do you guys want to continue this type of thread?

If not, no problem.

But if so, what religion/belief system would you all like to learn about next? 







R

Johnny Apollo

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Re: The Learning Thread.....*New*
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2006, 11:47:20 PM »
As you know i've already shredded through Jusaism,Christianity and Scientology.

I haven't really destoried Islam quite yet so maybe that could be next.We could have "Haider" take the place of bast as the whipping boy trying to defend their nonsensical dogma and I'll be the one refuting their religion.


List of Religions you could make a sticky for you all to "learn" about.



  • Islam
  • Mormonism
  • Wicca
  • Neo-Paganism
  • Buddhism
  • Spiritism (Or basic "Spirituality)
  • Hinduism


You can randomly pick which is next.

haider

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Re: The Learning Thread.....*New*
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2006, 12:12:07 AM »
hahahahah, "Haider", what a friggin name!
follow the arrows

haider

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Re: The Learning Thread.....*New*
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2006, 12:16:33 AM »
On a serious note, nah Im not ready yet. I dont ahve enough knowledge of my own to be teaching others...or enough patience to  feed their egos in Johnny's nerdboys case.
follow the arrows

Johnny Apollo

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Re: The Learning Thread.....*New*
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2006, 12:22:09 AM »
Who then? Do we have any Buddhists on this forum?

I doubt we have any Hindu's.

Dos Equis

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Re: The Learning Thread.....*New*
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2006, 01:34:31 AM »
It's one thing to be atheist or agnostic, but attempting to ridicule all religions is a little sad.  There are literally billions of Catholics, Protestants, Muslims, Buddhists, Jews, etc. who live much better, happier lives because of their religion. 

Johnny Apollo

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Re: The Learning Thread.....*New*
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2006, 01:39:14 AM »
It's one thing to be atheist or agnostic, but attempting to ridicule all religions is a little sad.

Attacking a belief system that is wrong and flawed isn't "Sad". If you don't have the guts or brains to do it then just admit it.

There are literally billions of Catholics, Protestants, Muslims, Buddhists, Jews, etc. who live much better, happier lives because of their religion. 

There were plenty of Nazi's who's belief system made their life much better too. Bad logic.

You're commiting a fallacy. Just because a belief system or action makes someone happy doesn't make it right.

A belief system based on myths and lies should be refuted, Despite how it makes people feel. People are better off believing in the truth opposed to fiction. Modern civilization is a testament to that. We have advanced because we believed in facts not fiction. If we continued to believe the world was the center of the universe and the planets orbited earth as the bible claims how far do you think we'd be in Astronomy now?

Dos Equis

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Re: The Learning Thread.....*New*
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2006, 02:01:57 AM »
If you don't have the guts or brains to do it then just admit it.

Now there is another brilliant argument.  I bet you often get people to agree with you using those kinds of attacks.  You don't know me from Adam (so to speak).   

Johnny Apollo

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Re: The Learning Thread.....*New*
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2006, 02:08:43 AM »
Now there is another brilliant argument.  I bet you often get people to agree with you using those kinds of attacks.  You don't know me from Adam (so to speak).   


Thanks for proving my point again...



Focusing on a single comment I make and then addressing it and ignoring the rest of the entire post!



Gutless indeed.

Butterbean

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Re: The Learning Thread.....*New*
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2006, 10:32:25 AM »
Sometimes people debate out of a sincere and honest desire to show someone the truth.

And sometimes it's all about PRIDE.







OK, I've PMed someone that I THINK follows Wicca, but I'm not sure.....If so, and they are willing to be our educator, that will be the topic of the next Learning Thread. :)

R

Deedee

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Re: The Learning Thread.....*New*
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2006, 01:34:12 PM »
As you know i've already shredded through Jusaism,Christianity and Scientology.

You can randomly pick which is next.

Okay, I pick Wicca. However, right off the bat, I'm not a Wiccan and really don't know all that much about it, except I became interested after reading up on Judaic mythology, and the story of Lilith, for an unrelated reason. So this is really more of a question than anything else. Here's a (not so quick) plot synopsis of the myth...


One story is that God created Adam and Lilith as twins joined together at the back. She demanded equality with Adam, failing to achieve it, she left him in anger. This is sometimes accompanied by a Muslim legend that after leaving Adam Lilith slept with Satan, thus creating the demonic Djinn.

In another version of the myth of Lilith, she was Adam's first wife before Eve. Adam tried to make Lilith lie beneath him during sexual intercourse. Lilith would not meet this demand of male dominance. She cursed Adam and hurried to her home by the Red Sea.

Adam complained to God who then sent three angels, Sanvi, Sansanvi and Semangelaf, to bring Lilith back to Eden. Lilith rebuffed the angels by cursing them. While by the Red Sea Lilith became a lover to demons and producing 100 babies a day. The angels said that God would take these demon children away from her unless she returned to Adam. When she did not return, she was punished accordingly. And, God also gave Adam the docile Eve.

According to some Lilith's fecundity and sexual preferences showed she was a Great Mother of settled agricultural tribes, who resisted the invasions of the nomadic herdsmen, represented by Adam. It is felt the early Hebrews disliked the Great Mother who drank the blood of Abel, the herdsman, after being slain by the elder god of agriculture and smithcraft, Cain (Genesis 4:11). Lilith's Red Sea is but another version of Kali Ma's Ocean of Blood, which gave birth to all things but needed periodic sacrificial replenishment...


From what I understand, the Wiccans tie the story of Lilith to the Moon Goddess, and although I've tried to find more information, unfortunately mostly everything online is just "touchy-feely-crystal" stuff with no real substance. I've tried the bookstore as well, with the same results, or the material glosses over it in a very general way.  If Johnny (or anyone) can glean any light on the subject of Lilith translatd into the Wiccan faith, I'd love to know and would be grateful!

Butterbean

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Re: The Learning Thread.....*New*
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2006, 01:47:42 PM »
OK, let's do Wicca.   Thanks DeeDee :)

It turns out that the person I thought practiced Wicca does not.

Let's try it anyway w/o an "educator."

The thread may not last as long as one where we have an "educator" (whether a false one or not), but with all the clever minds on here, I'm sure we'll learn something. :D
R

Johnny Apollo

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Re: The Learning Thread.....*New*
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2006, 09:10:51 PM »
Lilith is a female demon of the night from old middle eastern folklore. Mostly in  Mesopotamia. She appears in Issiah as a "Screech owl" translated from "liyliyth" who was a "night demon" who haunted desolate places of Edom.




I don't know why the translators translated lilith as "owl". Maybe to make the whole passage less creepy to readers unfamilar(Christians) with middle eastern demonlogy. I don't know for sure.
Many later translations translate it as "Demon" or "Night creature" or even "vampire".


Lilith is said to of hunted little boys so in Jewish tradition they waited to cut boys hair to trick lilith into believing they were females.

The story of lilith being Adams "connected" wife or wife prior to Eve is a passage in the bible stating God made Adam(and his wife) as one. "He made them,Them he made". This is found in the Alphabet of Ben-Sira an early christian text from the middle ages.


In Modern magic or "new wicca" lilith is regarded as a feminine demon and embodies the power of feminism or females and is a symbol for the female.


Sumerian terra cota relief of lilith with bird feet(Possible connection to Issiah's "owl")



Some good sources on Lilith include..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lilith

http://www.ucalgary.ca/~elsegal/Shokel/950206_Lilith.html

http://www.lilitu.com/lilith


http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~humm/Topics/Lilith/
Extensive site with many details


24KT

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Re: The Learning Thread.....*New*
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2006, 11:30:35 PM »
Sometimes people debate out of a sincere and honest desire to show someone the truth.

And sometimes it's all about PRIDE.

Hammer meet nail!

...just remember that old saying "The Road to Hell is paved with good intentions."

Quote
OK, I've PMed someone that I THINK follows Wicca, but I'm not sure.....If so, and they are willing to be our educator, that will be the topic of the next Learning Thread. :)

STella, if you're referring to me... you're barking up the wrong tree. I'm not a WICCAN.  >:(
I  don't put labels on myself, ...so I would appreciate it very much if you didn't either. please and thankyou!

If I've assumed too much or misunderstood your statement, ...I apologize. If I didn't, consider it food for thought
w

Deedee

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Re: The Learning Thread.....*New*
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2006, 06:33:54 AM »
First of all, thank you so much Johnny for taking the time to answer my post. I'll take a much closer look at the links tonight when I get home, but I can see they are quite in depth just from scrolling through.  I already have the Robert Graves book, which is excellent, so obviously I've struck a gold mine of info here.  (Guess your research abilities far exceed mine!)

The story of lilith being Adams "connected" wife or wife prior to Eve is a passage in the bible stating God made Adam(and his wife) as one. "He made them,Them he made". This is found in the Alphabet of Ben-Sira an early christian text from the middle ages.

Just as an aside, I've also read recently that according to some Judaic texts, Adam was purported to actually have had three wives, the second having been created from the earth, which repulsed Adam. It was only on the third try, with the meek and lovely Eve, that peace in Eden was finally attained.

Quote
In Modern magic or "new wicca" lilith is regarded as a feminine demon and embodies the power of feminism or females and is a symbol for the female.

For some strange reason, I thought there was some connection with the Moon Goddess, and I thought Lilith for some reason had more presence in the Wiccan faith.

(If I find anything, I'll post it, because I know everyone is just waiting with bated breath on this one. Who would deny that Bodybuilding + Wicca go together like a wink and a smile!)

Butterbean

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Re: The Learning Thread.....*New*
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2006, 06:44:47 AM »
Hammer meet nail!

...just remember that old saying "The Road to Hell is paved with good intentions."

STella, if you're referring to me... you're barking up the wrong tree. I'm not a WICCAN.  >:(
I  don't put labels on myself, ...so I would appreciate it very much if you didn't either. please and thankyou!

If I've assumed too much or misunderstood your statement, ...I apologize. If I didn't, consider it food for thought

Now now Jag!  No, it wasn't you.  Did I PM you asking if you were into wicca? Nope.

I accept your apology :)
R

YoMamaBeenLurking

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Re: The Learning Thread.....*New*
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2006, 09:19:39 AM »
Well, it seems that Bast175 now says that he never really was a Scientologist, but with links and info posted on the thread (thanks to all who contributed), I think some of us learned more about Scientology than we knew previously.

Knowing the possibility of someone claiming affiliation and knowledge of the next belief system could be totally bogus but that we could still learn things about it if we dedicated a learning thread to it, do you guys want to continue this type of thread?

If not, no problem.

But if so, what religion/belief system would you all like to learn about next? 



Does Bast bailing on Scientology surprise anyone?

I'd like to learn more about Atheists and why they choose that path.  Does it stem from upbringing in a household with no religion?  Or some sort of realization later in life?  Serious.
BKS - Guardian of Truth

CQ

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Re: The Learning Thread.....*New*
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2006, 09:26:38 AM »
Excuse my dumbness, but where is the Scientology thread?

YoMamaBeenLurking

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24KT

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Re: The Learning Thread.....*New*
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2006, 11:19:58 AM »
Just as an aside, I've also read recently that according to some Judaic texts, Adam was purported to actually have had three wives, the second having been created from the earth, which repulsed Adam. It was only on the third try, with the meek and lovely Eve, that peace in Eden was finally attained

 :-\  Is it just me... or do you see something odd there too Deedee?

For some reason, that just strikes me as a bunch of crap concocted by a bunch of mysoginistic, patriarchal assholes fearful of a woman's power. Show me a man who can only find happiness with a meek woman, ...and I'll show you a weak, insecure, wimp.  >:(


w

Butterbean

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Re: The Learning Thread.....*New*
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2006, 11:28:16 AM »
Excuse my dumbness, but where is the Scientology thread?

It's no longer a sticky because we're changing the "Learning Thread" topic.

But the thread is still on the board  ...and still open for discussion!



I'd like to learn more about Atheists and why they choose that path.  Does it stem from upbringing in a household with no religion?  Or some sort of realization later in life?  Serious.

Should we try 2 Learning Threads at the same time?  And as they begin to dry up we'll unsticky them.
R

Deedee

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Re: Learning Thread.....*Wicca*
« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2006, 12:25:12 PM »
I know Toxie had a Wiccan girlfriend named Laura.  It would be nice if he posted some anecdotal stuff regarding the faith, if there is any, just so we get a rounded picture...Toxic, too personal???

Colossus_500

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Re: The Learning Thread.....*New*
« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2006, 12:41:22 PM »
:-\  Is it just me... or do you see something odd there too Deedee?

For some reason, that just strikes me as a bunch of crap concocted by a bunch of mysoginistic, patriarchal assholes fearful of a woman's power. Show me a man who can only find happiness with a meek woman, ...and I'll show you a weak, insecure, wimp.  >:(




Jag, if you don't mind me asking, what was the relationship like with your father as a child?  I sense quite a bit of resentment towards men from you.  I'm just curious for my own perceptions.

OzmO

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Re: Learning Thread.....*Wicca*
« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2006, 03:28:47 PM »
I  hope someone who is knowledgable of Wicca posts here.  Wicca is very interesting.  From what i understand it's a 25,000 year old religion.

Jag, if you don't mind me asking, what was the relationship like with your father as a child?  I sense quite a bit of resentment towards men from you.  I'm just curious for my own perceptions.

I'm not speaking for Jag but she strikes me as a person who can spot BS a mile away.  So when soneone lays that lame players game on her she's instantly turned off.  And maybe she's been getting a lot of traffic that way lately.

Cook her a good dinner, like saffron infused rissotto with artichokes and lemon, Wild Mushroom roasted Chicken, braised Kale, and Cream Brulea with reconstituted dried blue berries and give her some stimulating conversation. That might get you on the right track

OR

I might be totally off and you might just need to take her to Hooters and buy her a beer while you play "real or fake" for shots.   :P 

Johnny Apollo

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Re: The Learning Thread.....*New*
« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2006, 10:52:19 PM »
Jag, if you don't mind me asking, what was the relationship like with your father as a child?  I sense quite a bit of resentment towards men from you.  I'm just curious for my own perceptions.


You're not a Psychologist.