Author Topic: Religion in the News Media  (Read 9016 times)

Colossus_500

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3993
  • Psalm 139
Religion in the News Media
« on: May 31, 2006, 06:09:24 AM »
Can we make this a sticky thread?

Artist’s painting removed from public display because of quote from Psalms, ADF attorneys file suit

Artist’s painting of granddaughter ejected from city of Delta’s recreation center because of Scripture verse
Tuesday, May 30, 2006, 11:26 AM (MST)

DELTA, Colo. — Attorneys with the Alliance Defense Fund filed a federal civil rights lawsuit today against the city of Delta for removing two paintings from a public art display.  One of the paintings features the artist’s granddaughter and a quote from Psalms to express the artist’s views about the value of the child.  The other painting, titled “Circle/Squares,” displays Scripture passages that reference circles and squares.


Artist Sharon Marolf’s painting ‘Big Black Umbrella,’ censored by the city of Delta
 
“It is absolutely absurd to say that a piece of art cannot be displayed in a public forum because the artwork contains a Scripture verse.  So much for art as the free expression of ideas,” said ADF Legal Counsel Brett Harvey.  “Many of the greatest works in the history of art have had religious themes.  The city does not have the legal right to censor the creative content of a painting simply because it has a religious viewpoint or because city officials think someone could be offended by it.”

Award-winning artist Sharon Marolf’s painting named “Big Black Umbrella” depicts her granddaughter holding an umbrella.  At the bottom of the painting is a quotation from Psalm 127:3:  “Children are a heritage from the Lord:  A reward from Him.”  Parts of the verse also appear in the background of the painting.

Delta city officials removed the painting and another one by Marolf from the hallway of the Bill Heddles Recreation Center after they received a complaint by someone offended by the Bible verses.  The city frequently opens the recreation center’s hallways and rooms for the posting of artwork by local citizens.

Many pieces of art containing Christian and other religious symbols and references have been displayed previously in the recreation center and have not been removed by city officials.  Ironically, in 2001, city officials did not remove Marolf’s painting of a different granddaughter on display in the recreation center even though the painting contained the same verse from Psalms.  The Delta Fine Arts association, a private group of local artists, awarded the painting “Best of Show” that year.

The complaint filed in the U.S. District Court for the District of Colorado in the case, Marolf v. City of Delta, can be read at www.telladf.org/UserDocs/MarolfComplaint.pdf.  ADF attorneys filed suit when city officials refused to allow Marolf to redisplay her paintings despite having received a letter from ADF attorneys explaining the violation to her constitutional rights.

ToxicAvenger

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 26516
  • I thawt I taw a twat!
Re: Religion in the News Media
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2006, 10:51:15 AM »
thats bullshit..

i for one fight for tradation...

so if something has hints of religion in it it cannot be considered art??  thats bullshit..
carpe` vaginum!

Colossus_500

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3993
  • Psalm 139
Re: Religion in the News Media
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2006, 10:59:06 AM »
thats bullshit..

i for one fight for tradation...

so if something has hints of religion in it it cannot be considered art??  thats bullshit..
My thoughts exactly.  And people say Christianity isn't under attack.  I don't buy it.   

ToxicAvenger

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 26516
  • I thawt I taw a twat!
Re: Religion in the News Media
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2006, 11:03:30 AM »
My thoughts exactly.  And people say Christianity isn't under attack.  I don't buy it.   

well it kinda sorta is..i remember when i moved here X-mas time ws X-mas time..and i kinda enjoyed that yanno..i like that tradation even though i dont believe in the religion behind..now x-mas time is "a happy x-mas, quanza,hankuak' time  :-\

wtf is quanza anyways? sounds like exotic candy
carpe` vaginum!

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63786
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: Religion in the News Media
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2006, 11:17:05 AM »
I don't buy that Christianity is under any kind of successful attack.  It's a huge, powerful, influential, multi-billion dollar industry.  But I do think removing the artwork is absurd. 

Colossus_500

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3993
  • Psalm 139
Re: Religion in the News Media
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2006, 11:20:40 AM »
well it kinda sorta is..i remember when i moved here X-mas time ws X-mas time..and i kinda enjoyed that yanno..i like that tradation even though i dont believe in the religion behind..now x-mas time is "a happy x-mas, quanza,hankuak' time  :-\

wtf is quanza anyways? sounds like exotic candy

Kwaanza is the African celebration of Christmas.  But it only comes about in America because of the mentality of  Pluralism - that all religions are of the same source, i.e., muslims, hindu, buddhist, etc.  they're all the equivalent of Christianity.  All religions lead to heaven.  That's where all this comes from. 

Colossus_500

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3993
  • Psalm 139
Re: Religion in the News Media
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2006, 11:22:14 AM »
I don't buy that Christianity is under any kind of successful attack.  It's a huge, powerful, influential, multi-billion dollar industry.  But I do think removing the artwork is absurd. 
 

True, the attack is unsuccessful, but would you agree that it is under attack? 

ToxicAvenger

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 26516
  • I thawt I taw a twat!
Re: Religion in the News Media
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2006, 11:24:54 AM »
Kwaanza is the African celebration of Christmas.  But it only comes about in America because of the mentality of  Pluralism - that all religions are of the same source, i.e., muslims, hindu, buddhist, etc.  they're all the equivalent of Christianity.  All religions lead to heaven.  That's where all this comes from. 

the whole "when in rome" is lost to em eh?
carpe` vaginum!

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63786
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: Religion in the News Media
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2006, 11:40:47 AM »
 

True, the attack is unsuccessful, but would you agree that it is under attack? 

In some respects.  There is an assault on traditional marriage and the traditional family, which are rooted in Christianity.  There is a lot of ignorance when it comes to religious expression in the public sector (as evidenced by the artwork story).  But I don't believe Christians are some persecuted minority.  You are free to worship or not worship.  Join any church you want, or none at all.  The government doesn't interfere with church organizations or services.  Heck, churches don't even pay taxes.  There are tons of Christian secondary and post secondary schools.  You can't get elected president or to most high political offices if you're not at least a believer in God.  So, I see the "attack" as sort of the mosquito and Christianity as the guy in the hammock with the fly swatter.   :)   

OzmO

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22729
  • Drink enough Kool-aid and you'll think its healthy
Re: Religion in the News Media
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2006, 11:49:04 AM »
 

True, the attack is unsuccessful, but would you agree that it is under attack? 

I don't agree with censoring of any sort with in reason.  So this thing about stopping art with religious text or tones is absurd. 

I don't think it's an attack i think this "percieved attack" is  political correctness gone too far. 


The same dumb Bull Shit from the people who think kids who play soccer shouldn't keep score.

OzmO

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22729
  • Drink enough Kool-aid and you'll think its healthy
Re: Religion in the News Media
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2006, 11:54:38 AM »
In some respects.  There is an assault on traditional marriage and the traditional family, which are rooted in Christianity.  There is a lot of ignorance when it comes to religious expression in the public sector (as evidenced by the artwork story).  But I don't believe Christians are some persecuted minority.  You are free to worship or not worship.  Join any church you want, or none at all.  The government doesn't interfere with church organizations or services.  Heck, churches don't even pay taxes.  There are tons of Christian secondary and post secondary schools.  You can't get elected president or to most high political offices if you're not at least a believer in God.  So, I see the "attack" as sort of the mosquito and Christianity as the guy in the hammock with the fly swatter.   :)   

good points Beach. 

Becarefull not to get drawn in the "attacks on Christianity" platform.  It's not real as far as i can see. 

Colossus_500

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3993
  • Psalm 139
Re: Religion in the News Media
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2006, 12:14:01 PM »
Quote from: Beach Bum
In some respects.  There is an assault on traditional marriage and the traditional family, which are rooted in Christianity.  There is a lot of ignorance when it comes to religious expression in the public sector (as evidenced by the artwork story).  But I don't believe Christians are some persecuted minority.  You are free to worship or not worship.  Join any church you want, or none at all.  The government doesn't interfere with church organizations or services.  Heck, churches don't even pay taxes.  There are tons of Christian secondary and post secondary schools.  You can't get elected president or to most high political offices if you're not at least a believer in God.  So, I see the "attack" as sort of the mosquito and Christianity as the guy in the hammock with the fly swatter.   :)   

i LOVE the analogy!  ;)

Colossus_500

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3993
  • Psalm 139
Re: Religion in the News Media
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2006, 12:16:42 PM »
Quote from: OzmO
I don't agree with censoring of any sort with in reason.  So this thing about stopping art with religious text or tones is absurd. 

I don't think it's an attack i think this "percieved attack" is  political correctness gone too far. 


The same dumb Bull Shit from the people who think kids who play soccer shouldn't keep score.

YES!!!  OzmO, this is probably the best way to describe what's happening.  Political correctness has gotten totally out of hand.  Well said.  I was laughing at the soccer deal.  I coach soccer for my kid's team.  I tell 'em if the other team mopped up the floor with us.  Competition is healthy.

OzmO

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22729
  • Drink enough Kool-aid and you'll think its healthy
Re: Religion in the News Media
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2006, 12:46:18 PM »
YES!!!  OzmO, this is probably the best way to describe what's happening.  Political correctness has gotten totally out of hand.  Well said.  I was laughing at the soccer deal.  I coach soccer for my kid's team.  I tell 'em if the other team mopped up the floor with us.  Competition is healthy.

Yeah, that soccer thing has always amazed me.  It's through failure we learn to win.  Or learn to whine...lol 

some of my best memories were playing pop warner football as a kid.  One year we won the Clark A.B. championship...  greatest feeling ever; being that we were under dogs.   the next year, with a different team we were favored to win and lost.  Devestating.  But the experiences built character....  at least until i was 17 and started drinking like a fish and smoking like a chimney  :P

Oldschool Flip

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3309
  • Eat Balut! High in Protein!
Re: Religion in the News Media
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2006, 08:06:53 PM »
started smoking like a chimney  :P
And we AIN'T talking ciggy's!

Colossus_500

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3993
  • Psalm 139
Re: Religion in the News Media
« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2006, 06:04:12 AM »
Quote from: OzmO
Yeah, that soccer thing has always amazed me.  It's through failure we learn to win.  Or learn to whine...lol 

some of my best memories were playing pop warner football as a kid.  One year we won the Clark A.B. championship...  greatest feeling ever; being that we were under dogs.   the next year, with a different team we were favored to win and lost.  Devestating.  But the experiences built character....  at least until i was 17 and started drinking like a fish and smoking like a chimney  :P
Pop Warner was probably my greastest influence into taking my football career into college.  I loved it!  My first year of tackle football, my team won league championship and we were invited to play in a Pop Warner bowl game at Wake Forest University.  Seeing 30,000 people when you're only 8 years old is awe-inspiring.  There were teams from all up and down the east coast, from Florida to Mass.  We were rooting for teams from all over, and they were rooting for us.  Fond memories!

Colossus_500

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3993
  • Psalm 139
Re: Religion in the News Media
« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2006, 05:36:18 AM »
what are your thoughts on this article?

Prayer protest at graduation: Fighting over God and country
Inside the First Amendment

By Charles C. Haynes
First Amendment Center senior scholar
05.28.06


When more than 200 students stood up to recite the Lord’s Prayer at their high school graduation last week in Russell Springs, Ky., they were rewarded with a standing ovation from the overflowing crowd of family and friends.

A prayer demonstration wasn’t on the program. But students had decided earlier in the day to organize a protest after a federal judge ordered school officials not to allow a scheduled prayer at the ceremony. The court ruling was in response to a lawsuit filed by a student challenging the school’s practice of annual graduation prayer delivered by the student chaplain.

Applause for the students continues to reverberate this week across the conservative Christian blogosphere. On the surface, the story has all the elements of a culture-war rallying cry: Courageous students stand up to “activist judge” in defense of “religious freedom and free speech.”

But take a closer look. What exactly were those students standing up for in Russell Springs? The right of the majority to impose a Christian prayer on the minority? And why did most of the audience cheer them on? To congratulate the kids for using prayer to score political points against a federal judge? To humiliate the student who brought the lawsuit?

Whatever the motives, most of the audience was clearly angry and frustrated by having its prayer taken away. For years, Russell County High School seniors have elected a “class chaplain” — currently Megan Chapman — who gives the prayer at graduation. This year a student (who tried to remain anonymous, but was reportedly booed at rehearsal) filed suit to stop the practice. After all, the U.S. Supreme Court has repeatedly declared school-sponsored prayers unconstitutional, even when delivered by a student.

When the seniors heard about the lawsuit, they attempted to cure the First Amendment problem by re-electing Chapman to give a “message,” ostensibly leaving it to her what the message would be. But the judge wasn’t impressed by the last-minute switch, perhaps seeing it as a fig leaf for keeping the prayer. The court canceled the prayer, setting the stage for the student protest.

It’s important to note (for all those school districts contemplating solutions involving “student-initiated” prayer) that the fix proposed by the Russell County seniors might have worked — but only if they had done it earlier, if they hadn’t tried to turn the chaplain into a messenger overnight, and hadn’t set it up to be a prayer. That’s because guidelines issued by the U.S. Department of Education in 2003 suggest that student speakers may be allowed to give religious or secular messages as long as the student speaker is selected on the basis of “genuinely neutral” criteria and retains “primary control” over the content of the presentation.

Not everyone agrees the DOE guidance accurately interprets current law. But even under those guidelines, neither Russell County school officials nor the senior class can create a process to ensure that a student graduation speaker offers a prayer.

If proponents of graduation prayer in Russell Springs were willing to look at other options, there are legal and fair ways for religious people to acknowledge God during graduation festivities: A moment of silence gives everyone an opportunity to pray (or not) without having to participate in someone else’s prayer. A community-organized baccalaureate that is voluntarily attended allows people to worship and pray in any way they choose and as much as they like. Both solutions accommodate the majority while protecting the minority.

For some people, however, it’s all or nothing. They see graduation prayer as a symbolic act that proclaims who we are as a nation. In other words, the conflict isn’t really about “free speech” or even a 60-second prayer; it’s about who gets to define what kind of country we are.

What would happen if a Baptist family in Russell Springs were suddenly transported to, say, a school district in Dearborn, Mich., with a large population of Muslim Americans? How would they feel about an Islamic prayer at their child’s graduation? Or how about 200 Muslim students standing to recite the Quran during the ceremony?

Here’s the American reality: We’re all a religious minority somewhere in this country. How we treat people where we’re in the majority helps determine how we’ll be treated where we’re in the minority.

It would appear that for most students and parents in Russell Springs, silent prayer is not enough. A baccalaureate with sermons and prayers is not enough. Even the fact that Megan Chapman expressed her religious views in her graduation speech (which she did) is not enough. Apparently, only by giving the majority the “right” to impose prayer (their prayer) on everyone else will these students and parents be satisfied.

Fortunately, there is no such right. The First Amendment protects us from the tyranny of the majority — at least as long as we have judges with the courage to stand up for religious freedom.

Charles C. Haynes is senior scholar at the First Amendment Center, 1101 Wilson Blvd., Arlington, Va. E-mail: chaynes@freedomforum.org.


OzmO

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22729
  • Drink enough Kool-aid and you'll think its healthy
Re: Religion in the News Media
« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2006, 05:42:19 AM »
Wouldn't energy, time and money be better spent helping poor people, hungry people, and people down on their luck instead of squableing over this stupid shit?  If they were saying prayers before leave it be, so what?  It's voluntary to join the prayer. 

Colossus_500

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3993
  • Psalm 139
Re: Religion in the News Media
« Reply #18 on: June 02, 2006, 06:28:29 AM »
Wouldn't energy, time and money be better spent helping poor people, hungry people, and people down on their luck instead of squableing over this stupid shit?  If they were saying prayers before leave it be, so what?  It's voluntary to join the prayer. 
It is amazing, isn't it? 

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63786
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: Religion in the News Media
« Reply #19 on: June 02, 2006, 01:45:29 PM »
It's not really voluntary for the students who don't believe in God or share the same faith as the majority.  Kids in school are a captive audience.  Nothing prevents the kids who want to pray from organizing clubs, praying on their own, going to church, and so on, but they shouldn't be allowed to force this kind of stuff on other students.  This is actually anti-Christian, because Christianity is all about choice.

I am a firm believer in church-state separation.  If parents want organized prayers in school, they should do what my wife and I have done:  send their kids to a parochial school. 

OzmO

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22729
  • Drink enough Kool-aid and you'll think its healthy
Re: Religion in the News Media
« Reply #20 on: June 02, 2006, 02:43:46 PM »
It's not really voluntary for the students who don't believe in God or share the same faith as the majority.  Kids in school are a captive audience.  Nothing prevents the kids who want to pray from organizing clubs, praying on their own, going to church, and so on, but they shouldn't be allowed to force this kind of stuff on other students.  This is actually anti-Christian, because Christianity is all about choice.

I am a firm believer in church-state separation.  If parents want organized prayers in school, they should do what my wife and I have done:  send their kids to a parochial school. 


Fundamentally i agree with you Beach.  I just think there is bigger fish to fry right now.

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63786
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: Religion in the News Media
« Reply #21 on: June 03, 2006, 12:41:05 AM »
Fundamentally i agree with you Beach.  I just think there is bigger fish to fry right now.

I hear you.  On the other hand, we can help poor people AND protect the First Amendment rights of kids.

Butterbean

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19326
Re: Religion in the News Media
« Reply #22 on: June 03, 2006, 12:36:36 PM »
If the kid who complained was so bothered by the impending "prayer" that the kid knew was tradition at every grad. ceremony, the kid could have skipped commencement proceedings.

And if the kid felt so strongly about everything, why did the kid "try to remain anonymous?" 

The writer of the article is worried about people "imposing" their beliefs on others, well this kid actually did the same thing.

And let's take the writer's assumption of how a Christian would react if a Muslim prayer was given because the majority were Muslim.  If I was there, I'd sit there respectfully and maybe pray to my God while they prayed to theirs.  We can still have respect for others even if we don't agree w/their beliefs.  I guess I don't see what the big deal is.

Actually the big deal may be that Christianity is so offensive to others because it exposes us all a hopeless (in ourselves) sinners.  A lot of people don't want to believe that about themselves. 
R

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63786
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: Religion in the News Media
« Reply #23 on: June 03, 2006, 08:17:42 PM »
Kids are a captive audience.  They can't simply come and go when they want in a school environment.  There is also a great deal of peer pressure and ostracism that results when a kid is "different."  Kids can be cruel.  Plus they shouldn't have to choose between very important commencement exercises and participation in a majority-rule Christian prayer.  Most importantly, if the kid is Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, atheist, etc., they have the right to not have the government let the majority impose a Christian prayer. 

And doesn't the Bible say to pray in your closet?  I think this whole government sponsored prayer issue is inconsistent with the Bible and true Christianity. 

You can't really compare kids to adults.  Much easier for an adult to either leave or sit in silence.  A few weeks ago someone invited a Buddhist priest to give a blessing in my office.  Many in the office participated, including me, and I'm a Christian.  I wasn't offended at all.  Found it very interesting.  But I'm not a kid and I could have walked away at any time.

Butterbean

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19326
Re: Religion in the News Media
« Reply #24 on: June 04, 2006, 02:24:54 PM »


And doesn't the Bible say to pray in your closet? 


I'm pretty sure that was directed @ the Pharisees who tried to make a big deal out of how "holy" they were.  It's good advice today also in that regard.

You can't really compare kids to adults.  Much easier for an adult to either leave or sit in silence.  A few weeks ago someone invited a Buddhist priest to give a blessing in my office.  Many in the office participated, including me, and I'm a Christian.  I wasn't offended at all.  Found it very interesting.  But I'm not a kid and I could have walked away at any time.


I'm definitely not an expert when it comes to kids since I only have two furry ones each w/4 legs :D

Your post reminded me of how clueless I am when it comes to children.  Once when my friend's child was about 2 years old, she was trying to feed it pieces of a hot dog.  He kept turning his head away and shaking his head no.  He wouldn't eat.  At one point he slapped her hand away and she dropped a piece of hot dog and it fell on the floor where it was promptly gobbled up by the dog.  The kid started screaming bloody murder and crying because the dog ate his piece of hot dog.  My friend sneakily grabbed another piece and showed it to the kid saying, "Here it is, it's OK, Here it is!"

I said, "What is the problem?  Don't lie, the kid didn't want it anyway what's he so upset about?"

She just shook her head and said, "You don't know anything about kids."  She's right. :-\
R